GS vs F3 question

[wyliec]

I asked this in someone else's thread, and no one responded. So, I'll start a thread, and ask again.

When the Spyder GS came out, it was advertised 0-60 mph in 4.5 seconds. Since there have been many here who post on how quick the F3 is as compared to the GS/RS/RSS, what is the 0-60 mph time?

[Chupaca]

quick scan on the web produced a claimed F3 0-60 speed achived in 4.8 seconds...but thats the web depends on who weaved it...:roflblack:

[wyliec]

quick scan on the web produced a claimed F3 0-60 speed achived in 4.8 seconds...but thats the web depends on who weaved it...:roflblack:

The 0-60 mph for the GS was from BRP. I would think they would have the 0-60 for the F3 listed somewhere.

[wyliec]

The 0-60 mph for the GS was from BRP. I would think they would have the 0-60 for the F3 listed somewhere.

I guess it's so fast that no one has been able to time it at BRP.:dontknow:

[Sempyder]

I've been looking for the f-3 stats for months surprised that they are not highlighting the performance.


Sempert out,

[ARtraveler]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Never did time trials on my 2008 GS to see how it compared with the factory "specs."

Yes, I am also surprised that the F3's speed specs are not being talked about. We do here a lot about smoked tires...?

[Bob Denman]

Let's face it; buying an F-3 (Or ANY Spyder!), based upon the performance numbers; is like buying a car JUST because you like the color!

They are so much more than that... :thumbup:

[Lamonster]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=105965&d=1429640455

[wyliec]

Let's face it; buying an F-3 (Or ANY Spyder!), based upon the performance numbers; is like buying a car JUST because you like the color!

They are so much more than that... :thumbup:

Yes, I know that. But, we keep hearing how fast they are. If you pick up any car magazine (motorcycles may be the same), they list the 0-60 mph times as a reference point. And, now I see Lamont's post of 4.8 seconds. The GS was supposedly 4.5 seconds. I'm not trying to debate how it handles, or how it feels in tight or sweeping turns, or if you like its looks. I was just trying to see how slow the GS/RS is compared to the F3, based on all the smoking tire comments, and how fast it is. So, it looks like an F3 at 4.8 seconds is faster than a GS/RS at 4.5 seconds.:dontknow: There will probably be comments that once past 60 mph, the F3 smokes the GS/RS.

And, by the way, Bob- Based on comments I read here, I believe some buy based on color.

[otter28169]

I was under the impression that the strength of this motor was at the low end, and not when you are headed for triple digits. But i could be wrong. One thing I noticed in the short ride I took is that it seems to be happiest in the lower end of the RPM range. My RS does not really come alive until after 5000 rpm. I think the delivery is different, but am willing to bet performance is similar. One is a spinner motor and the other is a torque monster. I am interested ti see how the F3s fair in the drags @Spyderfest.

Just sayin'............

[pauly1]

"Smoked tires" do not equate to acceleration. The back end of the F3 is relatively light: take the weight off the tire and even low HP will light it up nicely. Drag times are going to be dependent on the hook up.

We've owned '08 and '10 GS/RS, and currently own a '14 ST and the '15 F3. The F3 is definitely faster by a bit over the ST. The F3 does have a broader usable power band but it does make some nice HP above 4500 RPM. I don't remember the precise formulae, but it takes exponentially higher power to cut 0.1 seconds off of ETs.

HP is for show but torque moves the load.

Wayne

[jwood4242]

Maybe someone on this site has lined them up head to head. Probably close 0-60 but I'm sure the torque and extra 15 hp or so of the F3 kick in at some point. Anyway, anyone that purchased these bikes as a racing machine may be somewhat disappointed. They are plenty fast enough to get yourself in trouble real quick but more than that they sure are fun to ride. Love my:spyder2:!!

[arntufun]

Just based on the looks alone..................................


F3 Wins !!!!!!
It's one bad azz looking machine !!!!!!

[jwood4242]

Just based on the looks alone..................................


F3 Wins !!!!!!
It's one bad azz looking machine !!!!!!

Yes, it sure is :2thumbs:

[Bob Denman]

Wylie,
Having that 1330 under my right wrist; I can tell you that it is VERY quick off of the line.
The question might just be:
"Can the RS's top-end, make up for whatever jump thatthe F-3 gets on it off the line?" :dontknow:
This question WILL get answered! :D

[Mo Lee]

I don't want to bust anyone out but a couple of months ago I offered to race someone on an F3 that everyone knows with my GS during Spyderfest. I even suggested we play it up on Spyderlovers to help bring attention to Spyderfest. I'm sorry to say to this date my challenge has not been accepted. :pray::popcorn::mad::banghead::)

[isthatahemi]

HP is for show but torque moves the load.

Wayne

This displays a fundamental misunderstanding of power. Horsepower is a measure of power or work, torque is a measure of force.
Horsepower, irrespective of RPM is what matters, that's why all industrial equipment is rated in horsepower. You van use gear reduction to create torque, but not horsepower.

FWIW - There is little to suggest the F3 is faster than the early RS / GS - The Extra weight of the F3 is not compensated for by an extra 9 horsepower IMO.

[Bob Denman]

I respectfully disagree... :sour:
You will always do better, if you've got a nice, meaty torque curve to back up a big horsepower number. :thumbup:

[bmccaffrey]

Neither are drag bikes that was not there purpose. If i was looking for that would definately go back to 2 wheels. Would be intereting on a heads up . I would give the edge to the gs or rs.:gaah:

[Rockwall]

My 2012 RS is listed at 699 lbs dry and had 106 stock hp. My Two Brothers pipe is supposed to add about 4 hp so that brings it up to 110 hp. The TB pipe also sheds a little weight. (I more than make up for that at 235lbs)

I have gotten pretty good at taking off fast from a stop and getting up to 60 mph. It seems to be near the 4.5-5 second range. I would always like a little more power, but I bet all around the RS and F3 are pretty similar in the "fast" department and the biggest difference will be handling and rider skills in overall performance.

[pauly1]

This displays a fundamental misunderstanding of power. Horsepower is a measure of power or work, torque is a measure of force.
Horsepower, irrespective of RPM is what matters, that's why all industrial equipment is rated in horsepower. You van use gear reduction to create torque, but not horsepower.

FWIW - There is little to suggest the F3 is faster than the early RS / GS - The Extra weight of the F3 is not compensated for by an extra 9 horsepower IMO.

Who is misunderstanding what? Without torque, horsepower is not possible. http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-0401-torque-horsepower-guide/ A 16K RPM Indy or F1 motor which will product horsepower but wouldn't out accelerate a big displacement but equal horsepower motor.

Wayne

[isthatahemi]

Who is misunderstanding what? Without torque, horsepower is not possible. http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-0401-torque-horsepower-guide/ A 16K RPM Indy or F1 motor which will product horsepower but wouldn't out accelerate a big displacement but equal horsepower motor.

Wayne

So that's why torqueless Indy cars are some of the fastest road vehicles in the world.

Your comment was "torque wins races". You could have 400 ft/lbs of torque in an engine, and have 50 horsepower. An engine with 80 hp with 80ft/lbs would clobber it, at any speed other than seen in first gear.
But yes, an engine with the same horsepower, and more torque will be quicker, generally speaking.

Back to the topic at hand - On the traction impaired Spyder, I can't see more torque helping very much, especially in a heavier chassis, and more to the point, BRP does not claim it's faster. They are appealing to the more "overtly expressive" rider.

[pauly1]

I stated, "HP is for show but torque moves the load." You extrapolated from there.

Also, I stated "A 16K RPM Indy or F1 motor which will product horsepower but wouldn't out accelerate a big displacement but equal horsepower motor." which apparently you didn't read as you restated that same principle. So, we're saying the same thing only different.

An Indy or F1 car are fast, too, because they are aerodynamic and LIGHT! But given the same tires and body setup, I'll take a NASCAR-motored vehicle to get through a quarter mile before a smaller displacement/lower torqued Indy engine. Hp to weight ratios are much different for the two types of cars.

Indy motors are 234 cu in, w/horsepower of 550 - 700 @ 12K rpm, dependent on turbo boost pressure. The cars weigh 1575 lb. NASCAR is 725 hp, naturally aspirated, 358 cu in. The cars weighs about 3300 lb, minimum.

"quick" and "fast" are different but related, as is torque and horsepower. I can be fast but not quick, just as quick but not fast (is that half fast?). To a similar extent, and as you stated, I can have torque (such as an old "B" John Deere diesel tractor) but not horsepower.

Horsepower is a measure of work, 33K lb*ft of work per minute. Therefore, 0 torque produces no work and no horsepower. I've got to have potential before I can have horsepower.

As far as industrial motors, I assume electric motors, and further assumed to be AC current motors. They are rated in hp but also have to have an inherent torque at the rated RPM and hp. One does not create torque by gearing, rather it is amplified through mechanical advantage of the gear ratio.

Wayne

[Bob Denman]

:agree: Thanks for a solid explanation... :clap:
This is also one of the reasons that BRP tuned the original 991 series engines for 6 less horsepower, but 3 lb/ft of more torque: they moved the powerband almost 1,000 rpm lower for more useable real-world power. :thumbup:

[isthatahemi]

Here is the math for those who don't care for the about some of the gobbledegook that has been posted to confuse.

500ft/lbs@ 2000 rpm (~190hp), is half the (horse)power of 500ft/lbs at 4000 rpm (~381hp), and through gear reduction, you can multiply the latter amount of torque into 1000ft/lbs at 2000rpms. Torque is a nothing number, it is force, not work or motion. I can generate 500 ft/lbs torque with a large breaker bar. It won't move anything quickly.
As it relates to the above example, all else being equal, except the gear ratio (torque multiplication), an engine with 200ft/lbs torque at 6000 rpms will be faster. Quit often "torque" as cited will reflect on how effortless the work will be perceived in an automobile.

Horsepower states what the ability to do work is, whether that work is pump water, accelerate mass, or whatever you use it for. How much can my 500ft/lbs of torque do when I crank with a wrench? And all industrial engines are rated in hp because the torque rating is meaningless for doing work.

Anyhow, lets move on.

[pauly1]

Thanks for contributing to the gobbledegook.

Wayne

[Peter Aawen]

The adage "HP is for show, Torque moves the load" is a pretty good 'simplification' for those who don't want/couldn't handle the full & technical explanation....

BUUUUTTT, I like this one better:


HP is how fast you hit a tree; Torque is how far you move it!!



;)

[Deer Slayer]

I can't see that the pulled back, feet forward riding position can be conducivice to twisty road riding? I would love to see the RS-S type with the F3 type engine. True the F3 has 15 more hp than the RS-S /GS, but it is 50 lbs more weight? Power to weight ratio, the F3 is at a loss.:shocked:

[Dennis in Lodi]

I read this link from end to end. Enjoyed the comments from the best engine builders in the world. I learned Torque and HP are married across a complicated spectrum of variables for what the engine's ultimate goal is. The F3 should have a street advantage while powering out of curves. The GS should have a quicker hit and the feel it is going faster. Basicaly a wash as neither will outrun the other. In the end the F3 gets my nod because you will be shifting less.


Who is misunderstanding what? Without torque, horsepower is not possible. http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-0401-torque-horsepower-guide/ A 16K RPM Indy or F1 motor which will product horsepower but wouldn't out accelerate a big displacement but equal horsepower motor.

Wayne

[sandeejs]

But, I'm frequently asked if how fast my RT can go. I have to reply that I would never speed, because that is illegal. :rolleyes: However, I once accidentally went 80 mph.

~Sandee~

[jcthorne]

I once accidentally had my F3 wound up to 127....

[Bob Denman]

I can't see that the pulled back, feet forward riding position can be conducivice to twisty road riding? I would love to see the RS-S type with the F3 type engine. True the F3 has 15 more hp than the RS-S /GS, but it is 50 lbs more weight? Power to weight ratio, the F3 is at a loss.:shocked:
There's more to it than the riding position... The repackaging of the components has resulted in a lower center of gravity... :clap::yes::thumbup:

[BajaRon]

There's more to it than the riding position... The repackaging of the components has resulted in a lower center of gravity... :clap::yes::thumbup:

Wow! That sounds PAINFUL! Isn't that what Bruce Jenner did? :yikes:

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Yes; but her "re-packaging" was for aesthetic reasons; NOT for better handling! :D

[Pirate looks at --]

I once accidentally had my F3 wound up to 127....

I once accidentally had my RTL up to 100 two up!:roflblack:

[joet82]

I haven't personally timed it, but after calling 911 on sunday to report a brush fire on the side of I-5, I went from a dead stop to highway speed (70-75) easily in under 4 seconds. 2nd and 3rd were the gears I used, then once I was at speed, shifted all the way to 6th (YAY MANUAL!). can't wait to find a track here in the PNW that will let me run it so I can get times in the 1/4 mile. :)

[wyliec]

I haven't personally timed it, but after calling 911 on sunday to report a brush fire on the side of I-5, I went from a dead stop to highway speed (70-75) easily in under 4 seconds. 2nd and 3rd were the gears I used, then once I was at speed, shifted all the way to 6th (YAY MANUAL!). can't wait to find a track here in the PNW that will let me run it so I can get times in the 1/4 mile. :)

If you haven't personally timed it, how do you know? Was it seat of the pants?

[Bob Denman]

They call this, "Mahogany Ridge" racing... :D

[joet82]

If you haven't personally timed it, how do you know? Was it seat of the pants?

yes, it was the situation where you are waiting for a spot in traffic to open up, you see it...gun it...then when you get up to speed and you get into 6th gear, you realize, "Holy crap, that was like 3 seconds." lol

which is why I want to get it to a track/drag strip to find out what it can do when actually timed.

[Darren111]

I am buying F3 based on looks, sorry should say "badass" looks, rarity on UK roads, something different, something that will make me feel special. How fast it goes is irrelevant to me, because all I want to do on it is cruise and watch the admiring glances from members of the public.:doorag:

[Deer Slayer]

I am buying F3 based on looks, sorry should say "badd ass" looks, rarity on UK roads, something different, something that will make me feel special. How fast it goes is irrelevant to me, because all I want to do on it is cruise and watch the admiring glances from members of the public.:doorag:
That should about cover your needs, enjoy all those bloody round-a-bouts and don't fall off.:ohyea::cheers:

[Deer Slayer]

There's more to it than the riding position... The repackaging of the components has resulted in a lower center of gravity... :clap::yes::thumbup:
Bob, I can't wait to ride with one in the twisties here in the East.. I am having a blast riding with my ole buddy on his F6B Goldwing. We rode lots when I had my fast red F6B. Not sure yet but considering all the curves all appears equal. Slow hair pins the RS-S does well, long sweepers about equal. More test to go. Lots of fun. We ran the 3 mountain today, wow neat ride. The mountains are above Winston-Salem, Pilot mtn, Saurra Town mtn and Hanging Rock State Park including all the connectors. See ya..:cheers:

[joebryanjr]

Yes, I know that. But, we keep hearing how fast they are. If you pick up any car magazine (motorcycles may be the same), they list the 0-60 mph times as a reference point. And, now I see Lamont's post of 4.8 seconds. The GS was supposedly 4.5 seconds. I'm not trying to debate how it handles, or how it feels in tight or sweeping turns, or if you like its looks. I was just trying to see how slow the GS/RS is compared to the F3, based on all the smoking tire comments, and how fast it is. So, it looks like an F3 at 4.8 seconds is faster than a GS/RS at 4.5 seconds.:dontknow: There will probably be comments that once past 60 mph, the F3 smokes the GS/RS.

And, by the way, Bob- Based on comments I read here, I believe some buy based on color.

I may have failed math, but 4.8 seconds is more than 4.5 seconds making the F3 slower, not faster.

[Lamonster]

I may have failed math, but 4.8 seconds is more than 4.5 seconds making the F3 slower, not faster.

Ride an F3 and then let us know what you thing.
I have a good friend who had two GS/RS and he just traded for an F3. I asked his girl if she was going to trade too and she said "no, it's too fast for me". nojoke

[Mo Lee]

Even Though it was more like street racing at Spyderfest, There is a few people that learned a lot and not talking much about it.

[wyliec]

Ride an F3 and then let us know what you thing.
I have a good friend who had two GS/RS and he just traded for an F3. I asked his girl if she was going to trade too and she said "no, it's too fast for me". nojoke

So, are you saying the 0-60 time (that you posted) is incorrect for the F3, or are you saying once 60 is reached, the F3 just pulls away from the GS/RS? There are those that have given their opinion after riding the F3, and they say their RS is quicker.

[bmccaffrey]

I once accidentally had my F3 wound up to 127....


Go Pro It. Seeing is believing :thumbup:

[otter28169]

Ride an F3 and then let us know what you thing.
I have a good friend who had two GS/RS and he just traded for an F3. I asked his girl if she was going to trade too and she said "no, it's too fast for me". nojoke


When my father and I line up, and we do so repeatedly, it is usually even to about 60 and then my RS-S starts to walk away. So I am guessing that the torque just makes it feel faster. I would also like to see a 127 mph top speed, as my personal best is 117 and that was downhill tucked down on a smooth road with no headwind. I love bench racers. I just wish the spyder had the same tattletale feature the ski-doo snowmobiles did, then you could see the numbers for real.

Just sayin'............




e

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: A "Tattletale" feature??? :shocked:
Oh, Hell no! That would be ripped out PDQ! :thumbup:

[DrewNJ]

When my father and I line up, and we do so repeatedly, it is usually even to about 60 and then my RS-S starts to walk away. So I am guessing that the torque just makes it feel faster. I would also like to see a 127 mph top speed, as my personal best is 117 and that was downhill tucked down on a smooth road with no headwind. I love bench racers. I just wish the spyder had the same tattletale feature the ski-doo snowmobiles did, then you could see the numbers for real.

Just sayin'............




e

That's exactly what we are seeing around here too. Pretty much dead even running through the first few gears, and then it's all 998.
Twisties riding hard the f3 is falling behind. You can't move on the f3 seat enough vs hanging off the side of the RS running hard and tight. You will work harder on the RS though.
The f3 feels faster because it doesn't rev up. The motor feels flatter and pulls nice through the entire rev range.
The 1330 is a nice motor, no doubt. Easy to ride, pulls nice, and super forgiving in regards to shift points.
You can lug it along in pretty much any gear.
However, the overall power is super disappointing as an "upgrade" personally vs the 998. It's really not that powerful of a motor in its current form.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Racy2]

That's exactly what we are seeing around here too. Pretty much dead even running through the first few gears, and then it's all 998.
Twisties riding hard the f3 is falling behind. You can't move on the f3 seat enough vs hanging off the side of the RS running hard and tight. You will work harder on the RS though.
The f3 feels faster because it doesn't rev up. The motor feels flatter and pulls nice through the entire rev range.
The 1330 is a nice motor, no doubt. Easy to ride, pulls nice, and super forgiving in regards to shift points.
You can lug it along in pretty much any gear.
However, the overall power is super disappointing as an "upgrade" personally vs the 998. It's really not that powerful of a motor in its current form.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

This comment is exactly how I found the F3 on a demo ride. The F3 is a nice bike if you just sit there which in my opinion makes people think they are going faster in the twisties. The RS which is what I have will out corner the F3 but not unless you are aggressive in the way you lean with the bike. I would say you need to ride it more like a snowmobile and lean into any twisty roads from my experience .