Reliability

[Magdave]

Hmm one picture is worth a thousand words

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104690&d=1427990258 (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3169&attachmentid=96172)

[BajaRon]

We need to define some terms here. As in; What does 'Failed' mean?

[Bob Denman]

Dave,
Perhaps it's time for you to dump your RT, and move on to something that you believe in... :banghead:

And it pains me to say this to you; I've always considered you as a friend... :shocked:

[Magdave]

We need to define some terms here. As in; What does 'Failed' mean?
Dunno :dontknow: I assume it means needs to go to dealer to be fixed.

[Cruzr Joe]

Dave,
Perhaps it's time for you to dump your RT, and move on to something that you believe in... :banghead:




And take Drewnj with you. :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:


Cruzr Joe

[Magdave]

Dave,
Perhaps it's time for you to dump your RT, and move on to something that you believe in... :banghead:

Perhaps it is time for you to not offer me advice. Don't shoot the messenger. This was posted on a Can Am Facebook page. Go for a ride and have some ice cream.

Besides I am waiting for my May fix from BRP.

[Bob Denman]

This has already been posted...


http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?78984-CONSUMER-REPORT

[Magdave]

This has already been posted...


http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?78984-CONSUMER-REPORT

Then why are you ragging on me for posting the picture? I did not read the link you posted; colored posts in different fonts make me read something else. Besides that post did not show the pecentages.

[NorCalBud]

I've seen this tossed around recently...There is WAY too little info here to make any kind of conclusions from it...
But if taken at face value: One of the best arguments would be that the Spyder owners are generally persons of a certain maturity and/or who are much more willing to take issues to their dealers/mechanics for work instead of shade tree work. We also purchase warranties that other bike owners may not. Thus they go to the shop more for that work....
Also, we ryde 'em! :D

[Dan_Ashley]

Perhaps it is time for you to not offer me advice. Don't shoot the messenger. This was posted on a Can Am Facebook page. Go for a ride and have some ice cream.

Besides I am waiting for my May fix from BRP.
Negativity buys more negativity.

My Viper Red 2012 RT has been as reliable as ANY car I've owned. At least for the 25,000 miles I've ridden it over the last two years.

[Chupaca]

These are accomodating studies..like who sells more coca cola or pepsi. Depends on the month and whos turn...
We are the brand with the most never before owned a bike people...
We are the brand with the most women...getting into ryding
We are the brand with the highest average age...
Now with that we know newbies will be in the shop for every little thing as they learn ryding and simple maintenance. Women tend to have all work done at the dealers.(unless hubby does mechanical work or they learn to) Many units go in for computer glitches that simply clear with the key walk. And old folks have no patience (not all, don't get offended I'm one of them).
So until brp pays for the study we will be low on the totem pole...:roflblack::roflblack:

[finless]

About to hit 14K miles. My 2011 RTS has been trouble free other than things that have been what I consider normal maintance.

So I think comparing a Spyder with other bikes is a bunch of pooey... I think expectations like Chupaca pointed out have a lot to do with it along with the fear most people probably have with even pulling the panels off or doing anything themselves.

Bob

[Bob Denman]

There's an old saying...
"Figures don't lie, but liars can figure!"

[Frank G]

Follow the MONEY, who owns the publication? Who benefits from skewed articles? Who did the author play a round of golf with yesterday? You'll never know! :shocked:

I've owned two Spyders, 4 years later and (1) one trip to the dealer for (minor) repairs. No complainants, No regrets. Hell, the transmission self disinterested in My TOP RATED Honda Odyssey Van at 40,000 miles, along with other issues.

[BajaRon]

I don't mind the discussion. Certainly the Spyder has had issues, as has every other brand/model out there. But there are so many variables.

I'm not even saying that the Spyder should not be at the bottom of this list. On the other hand, I don't think there is enough information to verify their numbers either.

The Spyder is, for all practical purposes, a one of a kind machine. It's very much different from anything else anyone has ridden. And as mentioned, for many the very first 'Motorcycle' they have ever ridden. Just these facts alone are going to generate a lot of 'Can you check this or that', dealer visits alone. How many of these visits actually resulted in a machine deficiency and how many were simply owner ignorance.

I'd been riding for 25 years when I got my Spyder. Had I been someone else, and had there been a dealer close by I can guarantee you I would have taken it in at least once when there was nothing actually wrong with it.

I think this is a relatively meaningless concoction of figures which will probably get more traction than it deserves.

[Saluda]

The guy didn't create the chart. Since when do we attempt to censor (limit) what gets posted ?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I have a yamaha & a spyder

[ARtraveler]

Another point: Most dealers do not work on "trike" configurations due to warranty "issues." At the moment, Triumph is the only other major line that I know of that sells and warranties a trike version. EDIT: Ooops, forgot about HD TriGlides.

Can-Am is also a dealer serviced "trike."

Maybe that is the reason for more Can-Am's going to the dealer as opposed to the other brands. As owners, most of us tend to take our :spyder2:'s to the dealer for everything.

Next week: oil change service and tire replacement on the 2011.
Next week after that: oil change service and install some farkles on the 2014.

There are two more trips to the dealer. Usual maintenance and not from problems implied in the chart. :thumbup:

[JayBros]

Bought a dishwasher based on CR review last year because they said it was best cleaning one. Yes true, but in every other respect a POS! Love the :spyder2:!

[memphisdan]

Yes my Spyder seems to require lots of maintenance but I have driven lots of miles and it has never broken down. Plus I have had lots of fun, met great people and seen some new places. Ride, be safe and have fun; if the Spyder causes you more worry and than fun sell it and move on.;)

[cuznjohn]

anything you buy can have a reliability problem, i learned that with my ex. so it is a 50- 50 chance of getting a good one or bad one.

[DrewNJ]

And take Drewnj with you. :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:


Cruzr Joe
Why would you say that? I have no issues with my machine, No complaints at all.
or
Is it because you don't like me? That totally makes my day, that my presence here bothers you, that I'm on your mind that much. Hahaha....[emoji106]

[Bob Denman]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104707&stc=1
Truthfully; I didn't really care for Joe's post either...

...But you could have ignored it... :D

Nahhh... you couldn't!

[DrewNJ]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104707&stc=1
Truthfully; I didn't really care for Joe's post either...

...But you could have ignored it... :D

Nahhh... you couldn't!
I couldn't! It made me laugh, and I totally felt loved today! [emoji1]
I actually missed it and was messaged about it.
Also, Noticed you jumped in here to.... I'm really feeling the love today!

[wyliec]

I couldn't! It made me laugh, and I totally felt loved today! [emoji1]
I actually missed it and was messaged about it.
Also, Noticed you jumped in here to.... I'm really feeling the love today!

I certainly don't want to see you go.

[OJ UK]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104709&stc=1 Has to be said...Fair warning was given.

[Magdave]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104707&stc=1
Truthfully; I didn't really care for Joe's post either...

...But you could have ignored it... :D

Nahhh... you couldn't!

Probably as much as I did not care for yours :thumbup:

[retread]

I got my first Spyder in April of 2008, rode it till 2013, got a 2012 RT, figure I'll ride it till I can afford a new one. The biggest problem I've had has been finding time to ride. As far as service? I've owned H-D's from the mid 50's, some Triumphs, Nortons, and Enfields from the same time frame, so I think I've got a good idea of what reliability, or its lack, is. I really like my Spyder.

john

[Cruzr Joe]

:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflb lack:



Feel the love Brother.

It's good to know that you don't have me on ignore, i was beginning to wonder.


:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflb lack:




Cruzr Joe

[coz]

Do we have forum police here now? The last thing that should be said around here is that a person with great technical knowledge should go away. 95 % of what is posted here is USELESS CHATTER .Let's not drive away the good 5% of useful information . It has happened too many times in the past. Maybe they just got tired of all the meaningless posting.

[Cruzr Joe]

Do we have forum police here now? The last thing that should be said around here is that a person with great technical knowledge should go away. 95 % of what is posted here is USELESS CHATTER .Let's not drive away the good 5% of useful information .



Forum Police????

no, just a matter of opinion, and everyone has one, and the right to express it. The banter between some of us is just that, Banter, no one is being vulgar or hateful.


Cruzr Joe

[ARtraveler]

Okay. How about something technical and useful?
Can someone tell me how the EFI system works on my :spyder2:?

Are there advantages of the EFI system compared to the older carburation system?

Will various octane numbers affect either system, and how.

I will be waiting for the 5% of technical experts to chime in.

Thank you.

[daveinva]

Another point: Most dealers do not work on "trike" configurations due to warranty "issues." At the moment, Triumph is the only other major line that I know of that sells and warranties a trike version.

The two H-D factory trikes don't come with warranties? :dontknow:

[IGETAROUND]

Must be the approach of the full moon has got so many on edge. Like we in the trade say; there's a pill for that:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

[one2doo]

My 08 GS has been bullet proof. Just a steering recall and oil changes with maintenance. Hope the F3 is the same.:yes:

[ARtraveler]

The two H-D factory trikes don't come with warranties? :dontknow:

:bowdown::bowdown: You got me there. I guess I don't think about HD's much these days. :roflblack::roflblack:

[Magdave]

Okay. How about something technical and useful?
Can someone tell me how the EFI system works on my :spyder2:?

Are there advantages of the EFI system compared to the older carburation system?

Will various octane numbers affect either system, and how.

I will be waiting for the 5% of technical experts to chime in.

Thank you.

EFI delivers an exact measurement of fuel via injectors and fires the plug based on piston location via cam position sensor. The ECM measure the efficiency via O2 sensors and adjust the amount that is injected. If knock sensors are available the ECM can retard the timing if it detects pre ignition usually due to lower octane fuels. The higher the octane the higher pressure it will take to ignite and be more efficient and increase HP.

Carbs are like dumping fuel into the intake and hoping it get sucked into the cylinder in the correct measure. Timing done by points works via camshaft but they degrade over time requiring replacement where the ECM just fires the coil when it wants. Much less efficient and constantly changing system. Got knock? Better get higher octane fuel or adjust your points or both. :thumbup:

[Gray Ghost]

Okay. How about something technical and useful?
Can someone tell me how the EFI system works on my :spyder2:?

Are there advantages of the EFI system compared to the older carburation system?

Will various octane numbers affect either system, and how.

I will be waiting for the 5% of technical experts to chime in.

Thank you.

Both systems mix air and fuel and deliver it to the combustion chamber. The air/fuel ratio delivered by the carburetor is fixed by the use of jets and comes from the factory set up for best performance for a specific environment (altitude, humidity, temperature, etc). The jets can be changed, but that requires that the carburetor be disassembled. Obviously not something you can do beside the road before driving up a mountain. The EFI system though constantly adjusts the air/fuel ratio to be optimum for conditions by getting information from the various sensors and comparing that to a lookup table (called a map) to adjust the amount of fuel being injected.

It isn't that the octane ratings will affect one over the other, but it does affect the combustion process. The higher the octane rating, the more the fuel will take compression before it detonates. For optimum engine performance the ignition needs to take place at a specific point in the combustion process. If too low an octane is used, you can get knocking or pinging because the fuel is igniting too early in the process. EFI systems can adjust the system somewhat to compensate, but you lose some efficiency in that.

And no, I am not an expert. Ex = has been. Spurt = drip under pressure.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Then why are you ragging on me for posting the picture? I did not read the link you posted; colored posts in different fonts make me read something else. Besides that post did not show the pecentages.

:lecturef_smilie:..........Well sounds like the Honeymoon is over ......:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: :roflblack:........I think I'll go have some of Bob's Ice Cream...........Mike :thumbup:

[Dan_Ashley]

:lecturef_smilie:..........Well sounds like the Honeymoon is over ......:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: :roflblack:........I think I'll go have some of Bob's Ice Cream...........Mike :thumbup:
Bob makes ice cream? What does he make it out of? You might be safer ryding naked in Detroit...

[dlby]

Well im lightly stepping in

I will admit im a rabid HD guy who switched to this awesome Spyder

The site here helped my decision to purchace & learn to handle the bike & pick out acc (i can't call em f a rkles sorry

I feel as though I know some of ya as its a small room here
Any way thank you for all the ideas videos humour etc
This is a good site
I guess when people criticize the machine they own could be good reason & out of frustration
Lord knows many years ago wi HD it would been same

I selfishly just want to enjoy my new ryde & do not want it to be slammed
But so far it works perfectly
On the other hand if I have a problem I will want
HELP! BIG TIME
with no bitchin or slammin
Just help advise what dealer is good how to communicate with Can am etc
You ALL would be my help

So lets all go see REO Speedwagon or Bob Seger & have some peace Love & Spyder Power
DLBY
HOOSIER SEMI RETIRED PREACHER HIPPY

[joebryanjr]

Without knowing the parameters of the survey, I suspect at least part of the issue is that Spyder owners tend to be older and more financially established and are therefore more likely to have their vehicle serviced at a dealer. I know that is what I do.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

one thing to take in to consideration is some of the other bike might have their repairs handles by their owners
where spyders like most new cars today have too much electronics & have to be brought in to dealer

[Bob Denman]

Okay; it's time for me to tell you why I said what I said... :opps:
Most folks will join a forum like this, to gather some validation for their choices...
(Drew is the noted exception. :D)
We all hang around in here; telling stories about not being waved at by this or that type of bike, or being asked insulting questions by people who obviously don't get us...
And we always do our best to tell our friends to not worry about the cretins out there... :thumbup:
So when someone from in here, posts a "Study", or an article about how our choice of bikes isn't the next best thing to Mother's Milk and Sliced Bread; well, it almost feels like a betrayal... :shocked:

Dave,
You KNOW that I respect your mechanical skills and flawless taste in music.:bowdown:
When you posted it; I had to wonder if the "2013 jinx" was starting to take it's toll on you...

Are we good? :shocked:

[DrewNJ]

Okay; it's time for me to tell you why I said what I said... :opps:
Most folks will join a forum like this, to gather some validation for their choices...
(Drew is the noted exception. :D)
We all hang around in here; telling stories about not being waved at by this or that type of bike, or being asked insulting questions by people who obviously don't get us...
And we always do our best to tell our friends to not worry about the cretins out there... [emoji106]
So when someone from in here, posts a "Study", or an article about how our choice of bikes isn't the next best thing to Mother's Milk and Sliced Bread; well, it almost feels like a betrayal... :shocked:

Dave,
You KNOW that I respect your mechanical skills and flawless taste in music.:bowdown:
When you posted it; I had to wonder if the "2013 jinx" was starting to take it's toll on you...

Are we good? :shocked:
Interesting, you've never met me, have never even spoken to me, yet you feel you think you know me.....[emoji23] [emoji107]
You seriously are clueless....[emoji6]

[Dib52]

Repair, service, reliability...to me are completely different categories for the said 42%. Does mine go to the shop? Yes, for the oil changes(service). Does it go there for tires and a laser alignment? Yep, I'll call that one a combo(repair and service). Did it go there for a broken shock? Yes, but replaced under warranty(guess that one is reliability and repair). How about the Orange screen of death or codes...the last time I checked, my garage doesn't have a Buds computer in it(chalk that up to service). Guess I'm part of the 42% because I've driven the wheels off of my "unreliable" machine.

[Bob Denman]

Drew,
Why would you care what I say? :dontknow:
You have made it perfectly clear that this isn't a popularity contest in here...

...and you don't care to march to the same drummer as everybody else.
I would have thought that honesty would be appreciated more by you.

[Magdave]

Well Bob everyone has a bad day and yesterday musta been your day in the barrel. I will continue to post as I see fit, good or bad. If it is bad hopefully BRP Cares will see it, report it to corporate and increase that $70 mil profit by making their best advertisers happy.:thumbup:

[CruiseRT]

2013 RT Limited
Brake light wire burned from hot exhaust
Returned for band-aid recall
Returned for software upgrade and other items(belt guard bolt, etc.)
Replaced burned evap canister
Returned for water pump seal leaking
Waiting on BIG recall.......
All this before my second oil change.(5100 miles)

I don't think there is a problem with Magdave's post.

[HedonismBot]

Must be the approach of the full moon has got so many on edge. Like we in the trade say; there's a pill for that:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

I've managed two international support/grief-based listservs, and one thing that happened every year without fail, was hostility among members spiked in the winter time. I'd wager that the increased time stuck in the house due to weather (cabin fever) along with people dealing with S.A.D. and holiday stresses like family events led to the increase of people flying off the handle. This is more pronounced between long-standing vanguard members when newer members joined the group and expressed ideas that challenged the vanguard's notion of reality within the lists. The vanguard took huge offense to anything they perceived as a challenge to the "way things were" and demonstrated a sense of ownership in the lists (despite the reality they were not owners or even moderators). Every year, old members would leave complaining of new members and new members would do the same--finding a lack of acceptance from long-term members. New members were often treated as pariahs despite everyone joining the lists for the exact same reasons. They had more in common than not.

I've seen the same thing reflected after several years here. A core vanguard who aren't always accepting of new members who express ideas not in keeping with how things have always operated. In Winter time, when people can't get out and ride and are dealing with the effects of Season Affective Disorder, everyone develops a short fuse. The forum is always filled with snippy and sometimes distasteful, personal attacks and people over-reacting in general. That combined with the added security of being essentially anonymous behind a monitor, it becomes too easy for vulnerable individuals to act in an aggressive and hurtful way.

I'd also wager that this type of situation exists in every support group, bulletin board/forum and listserv on the planet regardless the topic. It's a product of many variables but mainly the inability for mankind to be humane.

[ARtraveler]

On certain issues a site of this size is going to have differing opinions on most everything. There are people that don't always agree with me (and I could name a few--but wont), and there are some I don't agree with either. I am a firm believer in letting each express their opinion. I have never used "ignore" because I do want to see what others say on various topics. I do occasionally bite my tongue or zip my lip because I do not want to add fuel where it is not needed.

I have never got into a long drawn out disagreement with anyone, and will keep it that way.

I respectfully disagree that there is an old member/new member thing going on. Most of the "old" guard are very knowledgeable concerning :spyder2: lore and :ani29: information. People can still get answers about their "new to them" 08's and 09's" if they need it.

Many of the "old" guard have also kept up on the latest and greatest. We have several now that can give current information on the 1330's and the F3's. Most have many miles under their belts when it comes to :ani29:.

Most try to be welcoming and helpful to any and all. I for one am glad that not everything is of a technical nature, and if it was, life would get very boring, very quickly. As members of a community that has the :spyder2: in common, we like to hear about other subjects that concern members of the community.

[coastrider]

I'm firmly in the camp that believes that technical information and tips are the best reason for being here. While there's nothing wrong with war stories and opinions, when they take over the conversation and legitimate questions or opinions are ridiculed its time to perform a self-check. BRP doesn't love you, and the Spyder is a commodity. BRP makes its decisions based on their bottom line and there's nothing wrong with that. Where we go off the rails is when we start defending them and stifling discussion, no matter how valid the criticism might be. To those members who insist that nobody say anything negative about our rides, remember that you didn't design it or build it. All you did was put your money on the table. If you're that insecure about your decision making abilities, you're in the wrong forum.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Hmm one picture is worth a thousand words

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104690&d=1427990258 (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3169&attachmentid=96172)

This is from the May issue of Consumer Reports as posted here: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?78984-CONSUMER-REPORT&highlight=consumer+report

Consumers Union sends, presumably at random, surveys every year to several thousand subscribers. Maybe they send surveys to all subscribers. I don't recall as it has been years since I subscribed to the magazine. The people are requested to list their vehicles that were, IIRC, bought new within the previous 5 years and to rate their experience about all sorts of criteria, including how many times the vehicle has been in the shop for repairs, and what type of repairs were needed. It takes a long time to completely fill out the survey as there are a lot of questions on them. CU has been at this for a long time so I'm sure they have refined their techniques to elicit as accurate and objective a response as possible. In a May 2013 article about motorcycle reliability (bought new from 2009 to 2012) on their website they state that differences less than 4% are meaningless. They also adjust the data to eliminate differences related solely to age to and mileage. That probably applies to the data shown above.

You can quibble all you want about the data above but like it or not, it is a fair representation of the percent of owners reporting problems. That does not necessarily mean the percent of bikes having problems, although it probably is close. How much the data is impacted by those who do their own repairs vs. take to a shop is a valid question, but I doubt it makes very much difference in the end.

EDIT: I just looked closer at the scanned pages in the other thread. At the bottom it says differences fewer than 10 percentage points are meaningless. It also state failure rates are for 4 year old motorcycles bought new and not covered by a service contract. That means repair rates for contract covered bikes is not included, so we can't know what the real repair rate is for bikes up to 3 years old.

[Cruzr Joe]

Interesting, you've never met me, have never even spoken to me, yet you feel you think you know me.....[emoji23] [emoji107]
You seriously are clueless....[emoji6]



While I am in the same box as Bob, because I don't know you or have never spoke with you, the problem i have with you is when you give advice to people that are asking for help or advice and you start off with ................"just disconnect it and don't worry about it". That is what you told a new owner about his brake fluid sensor problem. That was so wrong and dangerous in so many ways. I can only help with some minor repair or mod issues so i don't get into major "problem fixing" areas, but to give someone advise that could harm them or someone else puts you in my "wrong" book and i understand that you don't care. Mag Dave has a lot of good advice, i don't always agree with his advice but none of it ever seemed harmful to someone. This statement is so that others will maybe have an understanding of why i post anything regarding you, and i understand that if i don't like your post i came pass over them or put you on ignore, they same way you can do me. I am speaking for myself so you can take it for what it's worth.



Cruzr Joe

[DrewNJ]

While I am in the same box as Bob, because I don't know you or have never spoke with you, the problem i have with you is when you give advice to people that are asking for help or advice and you start off with ................"just disconnect it and don't worry about it". That is what you told a new owner about his brake fluid sensor problem. That was so wrong and dangerous in so many ways. I can only help with some minor repair or mod issues so i don't get into major "problem fixing" areas, but to give someone advise that could harm them or someone else puts you in my "wrong" book and i understand that you don't care. Mag Dave has a lot of good advice, i don't always agree with his advice but none of it ever seemed harmful to someone. This statement is so that others will maybe have an understanding of why i post anything regarding you, and i understand that if i don't like your post i came pass over them or put you on ignore, they same way you can do me. I am speaking for myself so you can take it for what it's worth.



Cruzr Joe
That is your opinion, and your welcome to it.
I really don't care if you like me, what I say, or what I recommend. Like you said, you really aren't a mechanical type person so I really wouldn't expect you to understand. Again, your problem.
You can continue to act like a child and bring me up in every thread you want. The more you do it just shows more and more how childish you really are.

Joe, honestly I don't care enough to like or dislike you. That how unimportant you and what you say are in my world. So carry on!

[PaladinLV]

There's an old adage in the world of statistics.

"Figures don't lie, but liars can figure."

AJ

[Dan McNally]

Hmm one picture is worth a thousand words

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104690&d=1427990258 (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3169&attachmentid=96172)

The CanAm has many more very complicated systems than some two-wheeled motorcycles . . . things which a dealer needs to address because they are beyond the capability of most owners. But for me, I am quite happy with stability control, differential power steering, anti-lock brakes, and, yes, even the "nanny." Comparing a $30,000 Spyder with a Yamaha SR-400 is comparing apples to oranges . . . and that is part of the fallacy in articles like this, as they compare by brand, not by model. Would you consider at article that compared maintenance costs for an IndyCar and a Toyota Corolla as legitimate? Apples and oranges . . .

[MikeinGA]

Consumer Reports has always been is a good at getting the best data on a product. It looks like fair report. I'm one of the 42% and I think it's a good number.


Mike

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Comparing a $30,000 Spyder with a Yamaha SR-400 is comparing apples to oranges . . . and that is part of the fallacy in articles like this, as they compare by brand, not by model. Would you consider at article that compared maintenance costs for an IndyCar and a Toyota Corolla as legitimate? Apples and oranges . . .
There really is no fallacy in the ratings as they are presented. Consumers Union is not comparing power, speed, handling, etc., of the bikes. If they were then your point would be totally valid. It would be difficult and impractical to find another motorcycle to make a direct comparison to a Spyder. And if you could, and did, do that as you are suggesting there would be so many individual categories that the report in the end would be seriously lacking in meaningful information. Consider this. Cars are pretty much built in assembly plants dedicated to a specific brand. Power sports equipment is not. Honda, for instance, manufactures a whole variety of motorcycles in a new plant in Japan. Goldwing manufacture was moved from Ohio to Japan and there is no 2011 Goldwing model. The same assembly line that makes the Goldwing makes a trail bike, the way I understand it. The methods and quality management are going to be basically the same for both machines. Hence, a judgement about quality of motorcycles is not a judgement of a particular model, but of the brand Honda. The quality practices of Harley Davidson apply across the board to all their machines. In fact years ago the quality management program they used for motorcycle manufacture was applied to bomb bodies they made for the US military. So like it or not, the report shows that 4 year old Harley Davidson bikes require fewer repairs than 4 year old Can Am Spyders, regardless of model.

[Dan_Ashley]

The quality practices of Harley Davidson apply across the board to all their machines. In fact years ago the quality management program they used for motorcycle manufacture was applied to bomb bodies they made for the US military.One of my dissertations was in quality management. Nearly all manufacturing companies use a quality management program, as do hospitals and chain stores, and etc. All of these programs are highly similar. They are all based on total quality management concepts. Albeit, some use more statistics, some use more flow charts, and some entail more employee empowerment. But in their core, they are all the same.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

One of my dissertations was in quality management. Nearly all manufacturing companies use a quality management program, as do hospitals and chain stores, and etc. All of these programs are highly similar. They are all based on total quality management concepts. Albeit, some use more statistics, some use more flow charts, and some entail more employee empowerment. But in their core, they are all the same.
That's because they're all based on the quality principles of Deming and Juran. Where they differ, sometimes greatly, is in implementation, understanding, and attitude. From what I have read here in the forums and the service manual and observation of my RT, BRP has a lot of room for improvement in implementation, which reflects a need in improvement in understanding. Inconsistency in use of nomenclature from one year to the next and one part of the manual to another reflects that. I spent 22 years monitoring contractors compliance with contract provisions. Much of that involved doing audits of quality programs.

[Dan_Ashley]

That's because they're all based on the quality principles of Deming and Juran. Where they differ, sometimes greatly, is in implementation, understanding, and attitude. From what I have read here in the forums and the service manual and observation of my RT, BRP has a lot of room for improvement in implementation, which reflects a need in improvement in understanding. Inconsistency in use of nomenclature from one year to the next and one part of the manual to another reflects that. I spent 22 years monitoring contractors compliance with contract provisions. Much of that involved doing audits of quality programs.
Yeah. There is a lot of managerial lip service given to quality. Thing is, the employees see right through that "program of the month" junk.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Yeah. There is a lot of managerial lip service given to quality. Thing is, the employees see right through that "program of the month" junk.
What I observed when I was working for the Army overseeing QA programs of ammo plants, and what others reported for other companies, is the middle layers of management were the toughest to convince and turn around. The people on the floor, and in the top corner office, "got it" fairly quickly. It was everyone in between who were the tough nuts to crack. I read somewhere a few years ago that the biggest contributor to GM shutting down Saturn were middle level managers who were transferred to Saturn as other parts of GM were scaling back. It was those managers who didn't grasp QA and sabotaged the superb QA program Saturn had in place, hence it went down the tubes.

[bscrive]

Hmm one picture is worth a thousand words

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104690&d=1427990258 (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3169&attachmentid=96172)




I can see this.

I have had my Valkyrie for over 12 years and it has never broke down on me once. Valkyries and Goldwings can get well over 300,000 miles on them. Spyders will never achieve this.

My wife's 2013 STL is at the dealer's right now getting the coolant leak fixed. Bad water pump.

I guess the 'percent failed' probably refers to how many have had to be repaired vs the total sold. It is still a good indication.

If 100,000 Yamaha's have been sold, in a certain time frame, and 11,000 have been repaired, that is pretty good.

If 100,000 Can Ams have been sold, in a certain time frame, and 42,000 had to be repaired that is not so good.

Truth be told. If my wife could ride a two wheeler, she would not have a Can Am. She would be riding a Honda. If Honda came out with a reverse trike, we would buy it.

[Dan_Ashley]

I can see this.

I have had my Valkyrie for over 12 years and it has never broke down on me once. Valkyries and Goldwings can get well over 300,000 miles on them. Spyders will never achieve this.

My wife's 2013 STL is at the dealer's right now getting the coolant leak fixed. Bad water pump.

I guess the 'percent failed' probably refers to how many have had to be repaired vs the total sold. It is still a good indication.

If 100,000 Yamaha's have been sold, in a certain time frame, and 11,000 have been repaired, that is pretty good.

If 100,000 Can Ams have been sold, in a certain time frame, and 42,000 had to be repaired that is not so good.

Truth be told. If my wife could ride a two wheeler, she would not have a Can Am. She would be riding a Honda. If Honda came out with a reverse trike, we would buy it.
Are those numbers actually reported, or did you make them up for illustration purposes.

[croosbow34]

Good God !!! Will you KIDS stop..........good information here, not a "temper tantrum" site..
We all have input on this site..........don't take it personal and make personal attacks.........
Now who wants to disagree with me :roflblack:

[Bob Denman]

:agree: Who wants some ice cream??? ;)

[PMK]

Be your own best judge. If you enjoy the Spyder and it has been relatively problem free then ride and enjoy. If you got a POS, or thought the machine was perpetual, sort it out and get what you desire.

What a simple waste of time reading this crap over and over and over and over...

Yes I do know how the EFI works, the other descriptions are accurate.

PK

[DrewNJ]

Be careful Paul, there are a lot of very stubborn people around here with very thin skin. You don't want to be accused of having a bad attitude, giving bad advice, or worse being from NJ!......[emoji38]

[Bob Denman]

Drew,
You have to remember; Paul isn't from "Joizee"... :roflblack:

[PMK]

No, I am not from NJ, but that is not important.

If I had a magic wand to fix the Spyder woes, no doubt some would be unhappy all was fixed.

This is a cool website that is littered with diverse people and talent. Done right there is so much potential for learning, friendship, and destinations or people to ride with.

Some folks do need to toughen up a bit and quit the worry over things that are not important.

So many here talk like they would kill the other guy, however I suspect if met in person, the hugs nd good words would make me puke like seeing two flaming queers holding hands in a supermarket.

Get over it people. It's a toy, an expensive toy and everyone that reads Consumer Reports is taking it as gospel as if it were on the major news networks.

Does Spyderfest have grudge match mud wrestling. That is where this should be settled.

PK

[DrewNJ]

Drew,
You have to remember; Paul isn't from "Joizee"... :roflblack:
Could have fooled me with that last post. ....[emoji23] [emoji23]
He would fit right in! Go get em' Paul! [emoji12]

[JKMSPYDER]

I have had my ST-S for over two years now and the only problem I have had outside of regular maintenance and recalls was a bad purge valve. It was promptly replaced under warranty. I now have almost 18,000 miles on it and would not be afraid to ride it anywhere. I have ridden to Texas and Spyderfest with no issues. In July I am riding to Deadwood, SD. So the 42%​ doesn't apply to me.

[PMK]

Could have fooled me with that last post. ....[emoji23] [emoji23]
He would fit right in! Go get em' Paul! [emoji12]

Drew, today is Easter. A day of gathering and celebration for the obvious reasons. For those that live in South Florida, we get to double celebrate today...first for the religious reasons and secondly, today marks the end of snowbird season and all the non residents will head back home this week.

As for this topic. Certainly not under my skin what CR wrote about Spyders.

PK

[DrewNJ]

Yup, all the snowbirds are coming back up....[emoji16]

[dndfindley]

Hmm one picture is worth a thousand words

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104690&d=1427990258 (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3169&attachmentid=96172)

I can totally understand that. Over the past 6 years I have owned 3 Yamaha's and 2 Spyders (2009 RS and 2012 RT). I currently own and ride a 2015 Yamaha FJ-09. The RS never gave me any problems. The RT gave me the orange screen twice. Both times it restarted and I was able to continue on home. Although it never left me stranded I never trusted it again after that first orange screen. More than anything that caused me to trade it. It may have been totally reliable and had I kept it I may have ridden thousands of trouble free miles. However when you do not trust your machine there is always that doubt in the back of your mind and I could not enjoy a ride like that. I have never ever doubted my Yamaha's including the FJ-09. When considering a long ride or while riding I never give a breakdown (other than the possibility of a flat) the time of day. I gave up having the wife riding behind me as she won't go 2 up on 2 wheels, but she didn't ride with me that much anyway and she is okay with me going alone on the Yamaha. Had BRP introduced a lighter, faster, better handling RS with a detuned nanny for 2015 instead of that John Deere lawn mower otherwise known as the F3 I might, repeat might, have considered it instead of the Yamaha, but now that I have the FJ-09 I don't see myself riding anything else for a very long time. It is one sweet machine.

[pauly1]

...I gave up having the wife riding behind me as she won't go 2 up on 2 wheels, but she didn't ride with me that much anyway and she is okay with me going alone on the Yamaha. Had BRP introduced a lighter, faster, better handling RS with a detuned nanny for 2015 instead of that John Deere lawn mower otherwise known as the F3 I might, repeat might, have considered it instead of the Yamaha, but now that I have the FJ-09 I don't see myself riding anything else for a very long time. It is one sweet machine.

Apparently, you're happy with yourself and your selection. I'm sure this forum, http://fj-09.org/, will appreciate your humor and support.

See you on the road - I'll be riding a white "John Deere".

Wayne

[easysuper]

When ever I see some chart or stats it reminds me to think of something that my old man , a Montana Cowboy born in 1912 taught me .
"figures don't lie son but liars can figure " just saying one needs to look at the whole picture .
Let's play nice kids , we all share the same sandbox.

[finless]

This thread cracks me up! :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

This is why I stay out of threads like this when they go this way. Learned the hard way when I started out here.

OK back to the regularly scheduled program :)

Bob

[Magdave]

When ever I see some chart or stats it reminds me to think of something that my old man , a Montana Cowboy born in 1912 taught me .
"figures don't lie son but liars can figure " just saying one needs to look at the whole picture .
Let's play nice kids , we all share the same sandbox.

Yup and "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink"

[dndfindley]

Apparently, you're happy with yourself and your selection. I'm sure this forum, http://fj-09.org/, will appreciate your humor and support.

See you on the road - I'll be riding a white "John Deere".

Wayne

Your back handed attempt at humor was kinda lame but thanks for the link to the FJ-09 forum. However I have been a member of that forum since December when I purchased the FJ-09. Know what else? A person can actually be a member of more than one forum at a time. I know you wish I would leave this one but I'm not, at least not yet. There are several other regulars here who no longer ride Spyders but continue to socialize. That is what I am doing as well.

[Bob Denman]

I for one; am glad that you've stuck around... :thumbup:

[dndfindley]

I for one; am glad that you've stuck around... :thumbup:

Thank you Bob.

[Bob Denman]

:D After all; we've got to keep SOMEBODY around that we can pick on!! :roflblack::roflblack: :joke: :thumbup:

[MikeinGA]

Hmm one picture is worth a thousand words

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=104690&d=1427990258 (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3169&attachmentid=96172)


Consumer Reports has always been is a good at getting the best data on a product. It looks like fair report. I'm one of the 42% and I think it's a good number.
Mike

Update!!! April 11/ 2015 my rear shock blew out with only 17,500 mile on my 2011 RS-S SE5 and the Spyder bounce around on the highway. I have already replace my front shocks at 10,000 miles. I pulled my maintenance records and review them. It looks like my Spyder needs to be repaired about every 3,000 miles due to a substandard parts. So! That 42% is low number. Oh yes shocks like other parts I had to replace are not covered under warranty. So! You think BRP cares. That IMHO.

Mike

[XB12X]

The last post was over four years ago. Is the situation better now? I want to buy one.

[Pantera]

The last post was over four years ago. Is the situation better now? I want to buy one.

Let us hope that things are better now.I just purchased a 2021 Ryker 900

[ButterSmooth]

2020RT with 10,000 since September 2020. One trip back to the dealer for failed fuel sending unit -- not a game stopper at all. Like any machine (especially with computers involved), there are a few wrinkles and annoyances.

[cruisinTX]

I guess I should count myself lucky then. I have owned 8 BMWs and logged over 420K miles on them since 1977. 375K+ of those miles have been since April of 2000 when I returned from a 20 year hiatus from riding. I have also logged just little over 9K on my wife's Spyder RT since purchase in Oct. 2017 & have not had to take any of them to a shop for repairs. One of the BMWs I chose to take to the shop because it was still under warranty, but it was just for routine maintenance as have been all of the repairs I have made on all of the bikes since beginning riding in 1968 with the exception of replacing a final drive bearing on the '00 R1200C at ~113K miles. But hey, no machine has parts that last forever and I did that work myself in about 3 hours.

I think charts like this can be very misleading because they do not account for:
accumulated mileage
average age of riders
financial ability to afford shop fees per typical brand owners
mechanical knowledge of typical owners
normal riding style associated with each brand

and probably a lot of other factors. In short, the chart is useless information due to lack of mention or consideration of confounding variables.

[Mikey]

:oldpost: New bikes, new problems, but we all hope to not have any!!!! RIGHT!!:ohyea::cheers: Ride more worry less!

[cruisinTX]

Old post or not, the information of the chart is still useless and the responses to it are still valid.

[Mikey]

Old post or not, the information of the chart is still useless and the responses to it are still valid. :bowdown: Sorry

[cruisinTX]

no need to be sorry, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[ARtraveler]

The OP has not been on the site since 2017. This thread was considered argumentative then, and I consider it heading south again.

Going to solve the issue by closing the thread.