Went to my friendly neighborhood Can AM dealer today.......

[Motorcycledave]

Well today I thought I would drop by my favorite local Can AM Spyder dealer
I like to give them some business from time to time when I am busy in my shop and
need a small simple task preformed on my Spyder..... this time it was the easiest task
ever, I have a NEW NEVER BEEN ON THE SPYDER, REAR TIRE AND WHEEL....
NOTE I SAID NEW TIRE AND WHEEL. all mounted up with air in it and balanced ready
to go, the simple task just install it on the rear of my 2008 GS that is it nothing more
this job should take no more than 30 min. tops.... Now mind you I have spent a ton of
money at this dealer and they know me well.... maybe that is the problem, LOL
the quoted labor for the above 30 min. job $119.00 yep $119.00
now I feel every business is intitled to make a profit however I feel this is so far out of
hand as to make me want to go to the next dealer up or down the road....
What do you all think...??? And by the way...I just finished installing it
myself and adjusted the belt and parking brake, total time including jacking it up 27 min.

[MouthPiece]

I charge $250.00 per hour. <smiles>

Chris

[Cruzr Joe]

for most projects ......................... you can't even hire me.

My feeling is if you don't like the craftsman's price ........................... do it yourself.

And you did. :thumbup:

Cruzr Joe

[bruiser]

So what you're saying is their labor rate is $238.00 an hour? :shocked: I knew the left coast was expensive but...

[ARtraveler]

$238.00 per hour seems a bit high. Last year, I had to pay $110.00 for work on the CanAm. Don't know if there will be "new improved" prices, but guessing there will be.

I am stuck. Cannot do my own work. When it gets to the point I can no longer afford it, I will be no longer be driving one.

[DJFaninTN]

most likely charged you for the full hour incase they ran into any issues.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Now you know why Dealer's are not high on my list of Favorite people ..........just sayin......Mike :dontknow:

[Cruzr Joe]

I have found that most dealers have at least a one hour minimum on most everything.


Cruzr Joe

[Motorcycledave]

If all the extra stuff had to be done, such as remove the brake rotor, hub, barings, oring seal
and all that extra stuff down there I can see 1 hour labor but all the above was on the new wheel
ready to just put on......

[Orange Spyder Man]

you can go see your doctor cheaper than that... I think service work prices are getting absurd.. one day it will bite them in the butt..:mad:

osm

[cjryder]

I think one of the problems today in any business is the lack of efficiency and excessive overhead. Think of all the dead time between customers, looking for parts, looking for tools, doing God knows what. And if you tell your employees they need to try to work faster they laugh at you. Unfortunately today, most people are not really working hard when they think they are working hard. It's sad but a lot of Americans have become soft when it comes to work.
And somebody has to pay for this. It doesn't surprise me to find company owners losing money while charging $150 hr. How much you charge per hour is only half the calculation, what about how much you get done in an hour. I have a small farm (orchard) and dozens of times I have hired people to help me out. 9 out of 10 don't come back for a 2nd day after getting close to real work. Almost every dealership has 3 or 4 people running around doing a lot of nothing. Except a Harley shops, and they have a dozen people running around doing nothing. Sorry for being a downer but I am also tired of paying $150 / hr. when $50 / hr. should be plenty. $250 to $300 to change the oil in a motorcycle is insane.

[Gray Ghost]

I just started working at a Yamaha/Suzuki dealership today as a service writer. Spent the day working with work orders. Those tasks that should take less than an hour are charged as a fraction of an hour. I know that there are others out there that are doing the same. Hate that you were quoted such an outrageous rate, but not all out there are out to rip you off.

[Cruzr Joe]

I just started working at a Yamaha/Suzuki dealership today as a service writer. Spent the day working with work orders. Those tasks that should take less than an hour are charged as a fraction of an hour. I know that there are others out there that are doing the same. Hate that you were quoted such an outrageous rate, but not all out there are out to rip you off.



Just looked at your map ..................... Impressive ......................... all 48 States in two months???


Cruzr Joe

[Pirate looks at --]

Dave the next dealer down the road charges less than 1/2 that.

[Cleg]

Well today I thought I would drop by my favorite local Can AM Spyder dealer
I like to give them some business from time to time when I am busy in my shop and
need a small simple task preformed on my Spyder..... this time it was the easiest task
ever, I have a NEW NEVER BEEN ON THE SPYDER, REAR TIRE AND WHEEL....
NOTE I SAID NEW TIRE AND WHEEL. all mounted up with air in it and balanced ready
to go, the simple task just install it on the rear of my 2008 GS that is it nothing more
this job should take no more than 30 min. tops.... Now mind you I have spent a ton of
money at this dealer and they know me well.... maybe that is the problem, LOL
the quoted labor for the above 30 min. job $119.00 yep $119.00
now I feel every business is intitled to make a profit however I feel this is so far out of
hand as to make me want to go to the next dealer up or down the road....
What do you all think...??? And by the way...I just finished installing it
myself and adjusted the belt and parking brake, total time including jacking it up 27 min.




Just wondering what the cost would have been if you purchased the tire and wheel from them...interesting for sure.

[retired1]

I have a 2014 RTS in need of a new rear tire. I have contacted 3 dealers in 3 different states. They all quoted me $300 for a POS Kenda and labor for total job.

[mtbear]

$59 dollars an hour here at my dealer.
mtbear:thumbup:

[Marker]

My dealers labor rate is $125.00 per hour min charge is 1 hour labor, so another words if it takes 30 min you still pay for an hour labor charge.

[Rockwall]

Very respectfully, when you operate a business you gain a true appreciation for your overall overhead and fixed costs. The labor rate is not bad at all.

[MidTNDawg]

Very respectfully, when you operate a business you gain a true appreciation for your overall overhead and fixed costs. The labor rate is not bad at all.

And jf your business is trying to provide employee benefits, you really begin to understand overhead costs.

[ARtraveler]

I have a 2014 RTS in need of a new rear tire. I have contacted 3 dealers in 3 different states. They all quoted me $300 for a POS Kenda and labor for total job.

That is also the going rate here. I have to replace the rear on the 2011 once the season gets started. So, with the oil change, tire, and season start check over, I am guessing a sweet $600 bill or so.
:yikes: I can get my Bentley serviced for less than that. :roflblack::roflblack:

[murphybrown]

That is also the going rate here. I have to replace the rear on the 2011 once the season gets started. So, with the oil change, tire, and season start check over, I am guessing a sweet $600 bill or so.
:yikes: I can get my Bentley serviced for less than that. :roflblack::roflblack:

for the Bentley? Bet he charges a pretty penny..:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack :

[latony007]

i appreciate dealers need to make money, i have no problem with that. But at 120 an hour, of which the actual mechanic makes what $20 or 25, its excessive. If they charged as someone said above 50 or 60$ an hour how many more people would bring stuff in vs. trying to do it themselves? Also its the traditional mechanic dealer rep which they have earned, its not about sell it for a fair profit its try and get as much out of every unit as possible even if your giving somoene a bad deal. id like to think not all dealers operate this way but i am yet to run up against one that would not charge you full sticker plus freight and assembly if you agree.

[bluestratos]

A certificied mechanic should make a lot more than $25 per hour. As said overhead and profit are factored in at a dealership so the typical rate is $100 and up per hour locally. I have done my own tire install twice now and it took me a longer than 27 mins, it takes me that long to get the tire off the rim and back on again using hand tools.

My dealer charges a 1 hour min. which again is fair. They also will do small repairs for no charge as a courtesy. I like to do my own work, I get pleasure out of it but if the need arises I have no issues with paying for a quialified mechanic.

[bdart]

Dealers don't make anywhere near 30% on Spyders or any major unit from BRP or any other major OEM. In fact, they don't make anywhere near 20% either. Gross margins are about 16% at MSRP, including dealer holdbacks. Dealer freght is billed in addition to the major unit cost, and on RT Spyders, dealers are charged $550 for freight. Then the dealer has to set the machine up. An RT Spyder PDI is a 4 hour job that the mechanic must be paid for. So freight and set-up for an RT cost the dealer somewhere north of $650, depending on mechanic wages

Now, the dealer is free to sell the machine at whatever price he wants, and some add on Freight and set-up, and some include it in the price, or just reduce their profit margin. In the end, most dealers are happy to make 10-12 percent profit. Now, this doesn't include any rebates that may be in affect, but those are normally advertised rebates and passed on to the customer.

No doubt some dealers are trying to maximize their profits to the point of gouging, but most are just trying to make a fair return on their investment.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Dealers don't make anywhere near 30% on Spyders or any major unit from BRP or any other major OEM. In fact, they don't make anywhere near 20% either. Gross margins are about 16% at MSRP, including dealer holdbacks. Dealer freght is billed in addition to the major unit cost, and on RT Spyders, dealers are charged $550 for freight. Then the dealer has to set the machine up. An RT Spyder PDI is a 4 hour job that the mechanic must be paid for. So freight and set-up for an RT cost the dealer somewhere north of $650, depending on mechanic wages

Now, the dealer is free to sell the machine at whatever price he wants, and some add on Freight and set-up, and some include it in the price, or just reduce their profit margin. In the end, most dealers are happy to make 10-12 percent profit. Now, this doesn't include any rebates that may be in affect, but those are normally advertised rebates and passed on to the customer.

No doubt some dealers are trying to maximize their profits to the point of gouging, but most are just trying to make a fair return on their investment.

:dontknow:...I'm not going to argue with you whoever you are. But I will say this , I'm definitely going back to the Dealer who sold me my 2014 RT in April to get my F-3 .....because they are not AWARE of what you said and are selling their Spyders at a LOSS and loosing money...............I don't care how they do it just as long as they keep doing it :bowdown::2excited::roflblack::roflblack::roflblac k::agree:.........Mike :thumbup:.........................This is the THING about the Internet ....anyone can say or claim anything they want .....However I actually have the Bill of Sale to prove what I said :clap::yes:

[latony007]

i used to sell cameras for a living and it was very similar. I would show a customer our minolta or cannon or whatever catalog and it would show the dealer prices if you purchased 1, 3+ or 5+ etc. we would then say, look, im only charging you 20$ over what we paid. What we forgot to mention that there was a $50 per camera rebate if you bought more than 3 so in actuality it almost tripled the profit. Unless someone actually owns/manages a can am dealer you will never know what they are actually paying for it, hell i doubt they do with all the rebates and incentives and commission on loans etc. My yamaha dealer sent me to Bobs finance instead of Yamaha because they got a $200 reward from the lender, which would have been ok except they wanted me to get full insurance so i had to go back and make the dealer switch me to Yamaha finance and they lost their 200 bonus, they may have still gotten something from Yamaha who knows. Bottom line is they do not let anything out the door for a loss. I got almost 5k off my brand new car (31k sticker) so imagine how much they are making when they do get some sucker to pay sticker.

[Cruising RT]

I think one of the problems today in any business is the lack of efficiency and excessive overhead. Think of all the dead time between customers, looking for parts, looking for tools, doing God knows what. And if you tell your employees they need to try to work faster they laugh at you. Unfortunately today, most people are not really working hard when they think they are working hard. It's sad but a lot of Americans have become soft when it comes to work.
And somebody has to pay for this. It doesn't surprise me to find company owners losing money while charging $150 hr. How much you charge per hour is only half the calculation, what about how much you get done in an hour. I have a small farm (orchard) and dozens of times I have hired people to help me out. 9 out of 10 don't come back for a 2nd day after getting close to real work. Almost every dealership has 3 or 4 people running around doing a lot of nothing. Except a Harley shops, and they have a dozen people running around doing nothing. Sorry for being a downer but I am also tired of paying $150 / hr. when $50 / hr. should be plenty. $250 to $300 to change the oil in a motorcycle is insane.

:yikes:
I don't like paying high prices either but I do try to understand the business end on every job. I own a Fresh Squeezed Lemonade business and I sometimes hear people complain about the price but if only the customers could see the expenses that's incurred, one might realize that there isn't much profit left for the owner. I'm thinking a repair shop would have the cost of the structure, tools, employees , taxes, insurance, product cost, shipping fees, etc. Now in saying this, I'm human too, and don't like paying outragious prices for services rendered. Dreading the day my extended warranty runs out and I'm force to pay for repairs. Just happy someone is out there that can repair any problems with RT so I can enjoy my day.:yes:

[Gray Ghost]

Just looked at your map ..................... Impressive ......................... all 48 States in two months???


Cruzr Joe

Yes, the dates are correct and we crossed the borders of all the lower 48 and DC.

[dlby]

Childcare-church-foodpantry

We did well but---
Nearly everyone thought we were (getting rich)

After only 33 years of 15 hour days we had a Harley (now a pearl Spyder)- very nice home (hand built by me)- etc

One of our 15 employees would look at the 10 children in room multiply that by $90 and think hmm

Many many times we barely made 5000 payroll
Then 941 tax, insurance, $1500 grocery bill ----
But! It was an awesone american experience we are thankful for!

[PrairieSpyder]

I think one of the problems today in any business is the lack of efficiency and excessive overhead. Think of all the dead time between customers, looking for parts, looking for tools, doing God knows what. And if you tell your employees they need to try to work faster they laugh at you. Unfortunately today, most people are not really working hard when they think they are working hard. It's sad but a lot of Americans have become soft when it comes to work.
And somebody has to pay for this. It doesn't surprise me to find company owners losing money while charging $150 hr. How much you charge per hour is only half the calculation, what about how much you get done in an hour. I have a small farm (orchard) and dozens of times I have hired people to help me out. 9 out of 10 don't come back for a 2nd day after getting close to real work. Almost every dealership has 3 or 4 people running around doing a lot of nothing. Except a Harley shops, and they have a dozen people running around doing nothing. Sorry for being a downer but I am also tired of paying $150 / hr. when $50 / hr. should be plenty. $250 to $300 to change the oil in a motorcycle is insane.

What you describe is definitely a management problem. When I was in systems development, the business line would ask us for new systems to make their ops more efficient. We'd do the analysis and find their systems were adequate, but their managers weren't up to the job. Management is more than just telling employees who to do things. In the scenario you present, the business owner should look at their compensation scheme and try to incent the behavior they want to get.

[jaherbst]

We are stuck with a dealer who has a monopoly in the SouthWest. Ride Now Sports owns 36 Can AM dealerships. If you want to buy or get your Spyder worked on you have to use them. They charge $130 per hour. My Mercedes dealer and BMW dealer charge $110 per hour.

Now my real gripe: Only one or two certified Mechanics/techs at each dealership. All others are hired off the street with little or no experience. They still charge you the $130 per hour for someone who will take twice as long to do the job and is not certified. Bottom line, your are paying for their on the job training. If the certified mechanic were working on it this would take half the time and less money.

When you take your Spyder in next time ask if the person working on it is a Factory Certified Spyder Mech/Tech and demand that that is who you want to work on it. I always do this. I have even gone as far as demanding to see their Certificate. I know, I know I am being a pain in the Ass but through the years and with lots of experience this works best in the end. I have made an effort to get friendly with my service writer and always request the same Mech/Tech. I have been completely satisfied using this method. Ask to meet the person doing your work and introduce yourself.

Why is it that after changing the title from Mechanic to Technician the shop charges have gone up from $50 per hour to $130 per hour. Food for thought!

Jack

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Sorry for being a downer but I am also tired of paying $150 / hr. when $50 / hr. should be plenty. $250 to $300 to change the oil in a motorcycle is insane.
Quite a few years ago I estimated that for a business to be truly profitable and worth operating you need to have about $100,000 per year gross revenue per employee. That's about $50/hour for every one of the 2080 hours in a work year.

I ran my own print shop back in 1976 to 80, and managed another one in 1981 and 82. I was pretty well prepared for what to expect when running the business, except for one aspect. It's what I refer to as "overhead activities." There are a bunch of them: spending time with a customer to figure out what they really want and need; spending time with supplier sales reps; spending time doing bookkeeping; spending time going through mail; spending time searching for just the right paper for a project; and on and on. The real money making part of the business was running the printing press, and I could only do that at best about 50% of the time. So, to gross $100,000 per year I had to generate $100 per hour of press run time. I came to the conclusion, and remember this was back in the 1978 time frame, that if I could operate a printing press for a city newspaper and earn $35,000/year I would have been seen as a truly successful neighbor and family man. However, if as a small business operator I took home $35,000/year I was ripping off the public!

No employee in any business will be able to have his time charged 100% of the time to customers. Add in sick leave, vacation time, holidays, training sessions, job prep and cleanup time, and all such and you soon realize no employee's time will be more than about 70% chargeable. And that's if he is busy all the time, which seldom is the case. Don't we as customers always want the mechanic to be available when we bring our machine in for service? That can't happen if he's busy 40 hrs/wk. Add to that insurance costs, the employee's share of building overhead (he has to have space to work after all), FICA, personal gear and tools that are employer supplied, and so forth and you can soon see if the mechanic is going to get a decent living wage his time will have to be charged out at a bare minimum of $60 to $80 per hour.

We as consumers find it easy to swallow hourly costs when they are cloaked in a final product price, like a $26,000 wholesale price tag for a Spyder. We don't know what the BRP engineers who are designing the Spyders get paid, nor what the assembly line workers get paid, but you can be sure the total cost to BRP is at least $40 to $80/hr. But let the dealer charge us a similar per hour rate on the invoice for mechanic time where we can easily see it, and we want to scream rip off! And remember, the per hour rate you see on the invoice is paying part of the owner's salary, the service manager's salary, the service writer's salary, the toilet paper in the rest room, the water bill for the drink you take from their fountain, the free cup of coffee they provide, and so on. How much to charge for what, and what is justified, ain't straight forward and easy to figure.

[ARtraveler]

Quite a few years ago I estimated that for a business to be truly profitable and worth operating you need to have about $100,000 per year gross revenue per employee. That's about $50/hour for every one of the 2080 hours in a work year.

I ran my own print shop back in 1976 to 80, and managed another one in 1981 and 82. I was pretty well prepared for what to expect when running the business, except for one aspect. It's what I refer to as "overhead activities." There are a bunch of them: spending time with a customer to figure out what they really want and need; spending time with supplier sales reps; spending time doing bookkeeping; spending time going through mail; spending time searching for just the right paper for a project; and on and on. The real money making part of the business was running the printing press, and I could only do that at best about 50% of the time. So, to gross $100,000 per year I had to generate $100 per hour of press run time. I came to the conclusion, and remember this was back in the 1978 time frame, that if I could operate a printing press for a city newspaper and earn $35,000/year I would have been seen as a truly successful neighbor and family man. However, if as a small business operator I took home $35,000/year I was ripping off the public!

No employee in any business will be able to have his time charged 100% of the time to customers. Add in sick leave, vacation time, holidays, training sessions, job prep and cleanup time, and all such and you soon realize no employee's time will be more than about 70% chargeable. And that's if he is busy all the time, which seldom is the case. Don't we as customers always want the mechanic to be available when we bring our machine in for service? That can't happen if he's busy 40 hrs/wk. Add to that insurance costs, the employee's share of building overhead (he has to have space to work after all), FICA, personal gear and tools that are employer supplied, and so forth and you can soon see if the mechanic is going to get a decent living wage his time will have to be charged out at a bare minimum of $60 to $80 per hour.

We as consumers find it easy to swallow hourly costs when they are cloaked in a final product price, like a $26,000 wholesale price tag for a Spyder. We don't know what the BRP engineers who are designing the Spyders get paid, nor what the assembly line workers get paid, but you can be sure the total cost to BRP is at least $40 to $80/hr. But let the dealer charge us a similar per hour rate on the invoice for mechanic time where we can easily see it, and we want to scream rip off! And remember, the per hour rate you see on the invoice is paying part of the owner's salary, the service manager's salary, the service writer's salary, the toilet paper in the rest room, the water bill for the drink you take from their fountain, the free cup of coffee they provide, and so on. How much to charge for what, and what is justified, ain't straight forward and easy to figure.

I teach Managerial Accounting and Cost Accounting. Full Absorption costing (everything goes into the cost of goods that applies), similar to what you say above, are the rules of the road for GAAP accounting. The big companies have this pretty well under control as far as determining cost of goods sold. Once the COGS has been determined, then the profit margin % is added and rounded up to what sounds nice. You then have the MSRP.

Smaller businesses are probably going to use a percentage factor when they try to determine rates to charge for labor per hour in order to cover their shop costs.

I don't like the fact that the dealers are now in the $100 plus per hour when servicing our beloved :spyder2:,s. I find the :ani29: to be to complex to do my own work. The upside, my dealer does it right the first time 99% of the time. If they could not be profitable and stay in business, I would not be able to own a :spyder2:.

[PrairieSpyder]

I teach Managerial Accounting and Cost Accounting. Full Absorption costing (everything goes into the cost of goods that applies), similar to what you say above, are the rules of the road for GAAP accounting. The big companies have this pretty well under control as far as determining cost of goods sold.

Smaller businesses are probably going to use a percentage factor when they try to determine rates to charge for labor per hour in order to cover their shop costs.

I don't like the fact that the dealers are now in the $100 plus per hour when servicing our beloved :spyder2:,s. I find the :ani29: to be to complex to do my own work. The upside, my dealer does it right the first time 99% of the time. If they could not be profitable and stay in business, I would not be able to own a :spyder2:.

For those of us that can't do our own maintenance, we just have to add that service to our cost of operating the machines. Finding a shop that does good service each time really helps.

[cjryder]

OK, maybe I was a little harsh. Let me introduce another idea. Wouldn't it be great if our dealer would give us a break on a couple simple things like changing the oil and / or new tires. You know the kind of things just about anybody can do if they try. It doesn't take a service tech with 4 certificates and 20 years experience to change the oil. These are simple tasks, and we all know what a quart of oil costs at walmart.
Now things that are more complicated I am all in. Alignments, tuning, programming, and high tech issues, I will gladly pay your $150 / hr. (Wait let's not get carried away, maybe not gladly) But you get the idea. Show a little love when it's easy. I'll pay extra for adjusting my warp drive. I have been spending money at bike shops for almost 50 years, and this oil change thing still tics me off. I still say there is something wrong when you can change the oil in your Cadilac for half what it costs for a Harley. Oh well, I guess if you want to dance you gotta pay the band.
CJ

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Wouldn't it be great if our dealer would give us a break on a couple simple things like changing the oil and / or new tires. You know the kind of things just about anybody can do if they try. It doesn't take a service tech with 4 certificates and 20 years experience to change the oil. These are simple tasks, and we all know what a quart of oil costs at walmart.
You're right on there. Just like the other day when I picked up my :spyder2: after the air bladder was changed. I mentioned to the service tech that apparently the service manager forgot I wanted them to wash it if they wouldn't have to hit me up too much to do it. He said to bring it around back where he washed it. When he was finished I asked what I owed. Nothing he said. Things like that will probably keep me driving 20 miles past the dealer who's 20 miles from me even though I have no idea if there is anything negative about the nearby dealer.

I worked for a guy one time who was somewhat near to being a "slum landlord". He said anytime he visited a tenant he took a pack of light bulbs and a package of toilet paper to give them. Cost him very little but the goodwill he garnered from them went a long way to keeping his property in good shape.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

We are stuck with a dealer who has a monopoly in the SouthWest. Ride Now Sports owns 36 Can AM dealerships. If you want to buy or get your Spyder worked on you have to use them. They charge $130 per hour. My Mercedes dealer and BMW dealer charge $110 per hour.

$130 is on the high end I agree. My dealer's charge of $68/hr is on the low end. Does Ride Now sell machines at a really great price? If so, then maybe they've figured out that a great selling price brings in the customers and the shop rate brings in the profit! Obviously they are doing something right or they wouldn't have 36 dealerships in their stable.