Rotella T-6 Full Synthetic

[Tango]

I am not trying to start any oil war here. :lecturef_smilie: My dealer does not carry any 5-40 full synthetic oil in stock. :dontknow: He recommended Bel Ray 5-40 for me to buy. They recommend against, as per BRP, using any full synthetic. :sour: But, if I bring it in, they will use it. My question is. Of those using the Shell Rotella 5-40 full synthetic. Have you noticed any difference from the stock BRP semi syn.? How long do you run it? I see myself needing an oil change once a year. No where near the 9200 mile mark for a change. Another brand I am leaning toward is "Motorex". Made in Switzerland. :hun:
Any input? :thumbup: Tom :spyder:

[Orange Spyder Man]

I plan to use Castrol 5w40 full synthetic motorcycle oil..it has a SL rating... I asked my local dealer service manager about the pre-mentioned oil.. his words
"good choice"..

osm

[STELLING MAN]

On my next change I'm going to start using Ams-oil 10-40..

[Cruzr Joe]

I am curious as to why folks on here don't want to use BRP oil???

[bscrive]

BRP oil is the only one we use. Not much difference in price.

[billybovine]

I am not trying to start any oil war here. :lecturef_smilie: My dealer does not carry any 5-40 full synthetic oil in stock. :dontknow: He recommended Bel Ray 5-40 for me to buy. They recommend against, as per BRP, using any full synthetic. :sour: But, if I bring it in, they will use it. My question is. Of those using the Shell Rotella 5-40 full synthetic. Have you noticed any difference from the stock BRP semi syn.? How long do you run it? I see myself needing an oil change once a year. No where near the 9200 mile mark for a change. Another brand I am leaning toward is "Motorex". Made in Switzerland. :hun:
Any input? :thumbup: Tom :spyder:

Rotella T6 should be fine in a 1330 engine. It does not meet the spec of being a motorcycle specific oil but all other specs are OK. Cannot be used in a 998 engine.

BRP specifically states to use a synthetic blended or full synthetic oil, 5W40. It is real funny how because BRP does not recommend using their full synthetic because it is 0W40 it get expanded to no synthetic allowed WOW. :shocked:

[Art Mann]

I am not trying to start any oil war here. :lecturef_smilie: My dealer does not carry any 5-40 full synthetic oil in stock. :dontknow: He recommended Bel Ray 5-40 for me to buy. They recommend against, as per BRP, using any full synthetic. :sour: But, if I bring it in, they will use it. My question is. Of those using the Shell Rotella 5-40 full synthetic. Have you noticed any difference from the stock BRP semi syn.? How long do you run it? I see myself needing an oil change once a year. No where near the 9200 mile mark for a change. Another brand I am leaning toward is "Motorex". Made in Switzerland. :hun:
Any input? :thumbup: Tom :spyder:

BRP does not recommend against full synthetic motor oil! Page 124 of my owner's manual recommends either partial or all synthetic motor oil. I can't imagine where this rumor originated or who keeps propagating it. Like every other motorcycle manufacturer that uses wet clutches, they recommend against motor oil with certain friction reducing additives. Those additives can be present in either synthetic or petroleum based oil.

Why not just use the manufacturer's recommendations in the owner's manual? If they are like all the other manufacturers, they will have spent a huge amount of money and effort to determine the best maintenance schedule that doesn't just waste money. The owner's manual is very specific about what is required. The label on the bottle will use the exact same designations as what is published on the owner's manual. All you have to do is compare the two and you are good to go.

[JayBros]

...They recommend against, as per BRP, using any full synthetic. :sour:...Any input? :thumbup: Tom :spyder:

How does the quote below, from pg. 124 of the 2014 RT Operator's Guide, recommend against using full synthetic motor oil?

"The same oil is used for the engine,
gearbox, clutch, and theHydraulicControlModule
(HCM) on the SE6model.
Use the XPS 4-STROKE SYNTH.
BLEND OIL (SUMMER) (P/N 293 600
121) or a 5W40 semi-synthetic (minimum)
or synthetic motorcycle oil
meeting the requirements for API service
SL, SJ, SH, SG or higher classification.
Always check the API service
label on the oil container."

[Chupaca]

BRP dosen't make their own oil. I have used the blended and never had a problem. I like ordering the kits for my oil changes. I believe you can do the same from bajaron if you prefer a different oil. As long as you meet the spec's for oil you can use which ever you like....:thumbup:

[Highwayman2013]

Rotella T6 should be fine in a 1330 engine. It does not meet the spec of being a motorcycle specific oil but all other specs are OK. Cannot be used in a 998 engine.

BRP specifically states to use a synthetic blended or full synthetic oil, 5W40. It is real funny how because BRP does not recommend using their full synthetic because it is 0W40 it get expanded to no synthetic allowed WOW. :shocked:
The last jug of Rotella T6 I put in my Kawasaki was Jaso MA.

[Tango]

Rotella T6 should be fine in a 1330 engine. It does not meet the spec of being a motorcycle specific oil but all other specs are OK. Cannot be used in a 998 engine.

BRP specifically states to use a synthetic blended or full synthetic oil, 5W40. It is real funny how because BRP does not recommend using their full synthetic because it is 0W40 it get expanded to no synthetic allowed WOW. :shocked:

Bill, the T6 is rated JASO MA+ MA2. I'm undecided what I will do. I plan on doing an oil change every April. I only have a little over 3,000 miles right now. I haven't been able to ride since September due to a cervical injury. And now with winter. Forget it. They just plowed my road. Had about 2" of ice. nojoke Tom :spyder:

[Highwayman2013]

Tom, T-6 should be fine. I'm using it in my Kawasaki Vulcan for 4,000 miles and no clutch problems there. I've been running the BRP oil because it comes in the kit with the long trans filter for my 2012 and plan to stay with it.

Len

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Tango , the Rotella t-6 oil thing has been hashed out months ago.......and the oil GURU's here have said it meets and actually exceeds BRP's requirements in all respects ....I have therefore been using it for the past 5000 miles with NO issues .....I just did another Oil change with it......PLUS you can get it at Walmart for about $ 5.25 per qt......It's not Amsoil but it's less than 1/2 the price ........................Mike :thumbup:

[PMK]

How the best rumors are started...

PK


http://blog.thevintageworkshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ie158_sew03_51.jpg

[Tx web rider]

I am currently running rotella T-6 in my GS

shifts great and runs fine only 3500 on this oil so far gonna go till 5k

and my GS has 65k miles

[SpyderFun]

QUICK ANSWER: Because BRP stated in their manual what type, weight and classification of oil can be used, its your personal and financial choice to make as to which manufacture to use. I will add that as a good maintenance practice, you should be consistent with using the same manufacture.

My 2010 - 2011 BRP Shop Manual states (on page 50) that if BRP XPS Oil is not available, you can use "...ANY 5W 40 synthetic motorcycle oil that meets the requirements for API service SL, SJ, SH, SG or higher classification...". There is a "Notice" to not use oil that meets API service SM or ILSAC GF-4 classification because clutch slippage will occur (998 engines). This "Notice" should be absent for the 1330 engines due to the engine/clutch being redesigned.

As long as you follow what BRP states is acceptable for their product, you are fine. Remember, you can't go wrong following what BRP says you can use on their product - not what is used on some other bike.

Hope this helps make it clearer....

[billybovine]

I am currently running rotella T-6 in my GS

shifts great and runs fine only 3500 on this oil so far gonna go till 5k

and my GS has 65k miles

I used it on my 09 GS and the clutch started to slip at about 2000 miles. Good luck!!!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I used it on my 09 GS and the clutch started to slip at about 2000 miles. Good luck!!!
Billy, Tango has the 1330 Ace engine & new trans - clutch .......and T-6 works fine in this combo.........It's an SM oil so it's a No No for the 998 engine .....Mike :thumbup:

[jcthorne]

Agreed, the Rotella T6 is a fine choice for the 1330 engines. Not so much for the v-twins with the centrifugal clutch.

[billybovine]

Billy, Tango has the 1330 Ace engine & new trans - clutch .......and T-6 works fine in this combo.........It's an SM oil so it's a No No for the 998 engine .....Mike :thumbup:

If you look at my post again. I quoted and answered Tx web rider post. No reference to Tango and his 1330 engine to be taken.

[PMK]

FASTEN YOUR SEATBELTS AND MAKE THEM TIGHT...
PK:bdh:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

If you look at my post again. I quoted and answered Tx web rider post. No reference to Tango and his 1330 engine to be taken.
:yikes:........Billy you have my sincerest apologies if my post somehow offended you......it was not intended to do so .........Mike :thumbup:

[Richardv]

Billy, Tango has the 1330 Ace engine & new trans - clutch .......and T-6 works fine in this combo.........It's an SM oil so it's a No No for the 998 engine .....Mike :thumbup:


Hi,

I have been curious about all of this , and did some, not to say a lot, of reading on the subject. Following, please find an email from Shell Technical department, a cut and paste from the API organisation, and finally the definition of the JASO classification....

Here is the email I received from Shell Technical, in reply to my question:

_______________________________________________

Hi Richard,
Rotella T6 meets JASO MA requirements for wet clutch performance and API SM and prior S categories for gasoline engines. API SM rating has an exception for dual use oils (API CJ-4/SM) so does not require the oil to be energy conserving. Neither does Rotella meet the ILSAC GF requirements. Rotella T6 is therefore suitable for many gasoline engine and wet-clutch applications. Feel free to call us at the number below if you need more information.

Regards,
Keith Perry
Shell Technical Information
(800) 237-8645 Option 3, 1
Email: shelltechnical-us@shell.com
Technical data sheets and MSDS may be found at: www.epc.shell.com (http://www.epc.shell.com/)

From: SSSCMLA shelllubricantsinquiries-us SIPC-DIO/P71
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 10:27 AM
To: SLUBE shelltechnical-us SLUBE; SLUBE PQSTechnical-US@shell.com SLUBE-DIU/831
Subject: FW: Rotella T6 use...


Original Text


From:

Richard Valiquette



To:

shelllubricantsinquiries-us@shell.c <shelllubricantsinquiries-us@shell.com>



CC:




Sent:

23.06.15 15:14:39



Subject:

Rotella T6 use...




Hi,

I would like to use Rotella T6 in my Can-Am Spyders. I see that is JASO-MA certified, but also, it is SM class of oil. BRP (manufacturer of the Can-Am Spyders) advise to not use SM or ILSAC-GF4 in their engine, because wet clutch slippage will occur.... Spyders use the motor oil for both engine and transmission/clutch assembly.

So.... does the JASO-MA cancel the SM certification? Can we use the Rotella T6 in our engine/transmission/clutch assembly without any reason to worry? Could BRP void my warranty for doing so?

Thanks in advance for your answer. I really do appreciate it.




Richard Valiquette

{ticketno:[70942177]}
__________________________________________________ _____

Also, if you look at the API classification following link, http://www.apicj-4.org/2009_engine_oil_guide.pdf it is stated that:

"For all automotive engines currently in use. Introduced in 2004, SM oils are designed to provideimproved oxidation resistance, improved deposit protection, better wear protection, and betterlow-temperature performance over the life of the oil. Some SM oils may also meet the latest ILSACspecification and/or qualify as Energy Conserving."

__________________________________________________ _______

Finally, here is the definition of the JASO classification:


In 1998 the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (or JASO for short) developed a grading system for motorcycle oils.
The grading system measured (amongst other things) an oils ability to resist clutch friction (or slippage), protection offered against engine wear and pitting in the gear box.

Up to 1998 car oils had been used as the base for many motorcycle oils. As car technology evolved over the years the oils that cars needed changed and additives were added that weren’t good for motorcycle engines (especially motorbike clutches and gearboxes, mainly due to the fact that, unlike most motorcycles, cars use a separate oil for the gearbox).
Car oils had been blended using more and more friction modifiers, which, although good for cars, wasn’t too good for motorcycles as these modifiers can cause clutches to slip at higher revs and gearbox pitting.

JASO introduced 2 ratings for 4 stroke motorcycle oils:

JASO MA – This was the standard for single unit engines where the wet clutch, gearbox and engine used the same oil. JASO-MA oils don’t contain friction modifiers.
JASO MB – This lower standard was for bikes that use separate oils for the engine, clutch and gearbox (e.g Harley Davidson’s and BMW’s).
Then in 2006 JASO introduced…..

JASO-MA2 – This specification was introduced in 2006 for modern motorcycle engines. As well as being a higher standard of oil the JASO-MA2 approval means the oil is suitable for use in bikes with catalytic converts in the exhaust system.

__________________________________________________ _______


So, in the reading of all of this, I don't see what could be "not good" in the shell Rotella T6 for a 998 clutch, compared to the 1330 ?

I was wondering if Bajaron would be kind enough to comment on the subject ? I understand he is recommanding/selling Amsoil, but up here, in Canada, it is not as easy to get everywhere as the Rotella is....

I am not challenging anybody on all that is being said on the "oil saga", but, I cannot see what would be wrong with the T6 oil..... i.e. the price is right, the availability great, and the performance, as per all of the 2 wheels bike forum, very much appreciated.....

Sorry for the long append....

Richard

[BajaRon]

If you use a JASO MA rated oil in your 998 there is a very good chance it will slip. To be sure you don't get slippage you should always run a JASO MA2 rated oil. Since there are plenty of good choices that are rated MA2, there really isn't a good reason not to.

The 1330 does not have the clutch slip tendency that the 998 has. So the Rotella T6 oil would probably be fine in the 1330.

There are basically 4 wet clutch, JASO ratings. From best to worse,

MA2
MA
MA1
MB

These ratings are a bit counter intuitive in that you would think it would be MA2/MA1/MA so be careful. The MA rating is superior to the MA1 rating. The explanation I got was that if the oil falls between MA2 and MA1 then it is MA rated.

Then there is a range of clutch friction properties within each rating. So your oil could be just barely above the MA1 rating which would put it into the MA category. Or, it may have fallen just short of the MA2 rating and that would also put it in the MA category. Where a particular oil falls within its category is difficult to discover. That is why I recommend a MA2 rated oil. Because no matter where it falls within that category. You know it isn't going to create slippage in the 998 Rotax.

[lyonsden]

I've been using Castrol 5w40 Power RS Racing 4T full synthetic oil for almost 23K miles now. No problems at all. In the beginning I was just looking for an oil that I could buy locally and that is why I went with the Castrol. I can't confirm it but I have read many times that Castrol makes all of BRP's oils and lubes.

[Highwayman2013]

Rotella T6 should be fine in a 1330 engine. It does not meet the spec of being a motorcycle specific oil but all other specs are OK. Cannot be used in a 998 engine.

BRP specifically states to use a synthetic blended or full synthetic oil, 5W40. It is real funny how because BRP does not recommend using their full synthetic because it is 0W40 it get expanded to no synthetic allowed WOW. :shocked:

How does it not meet the spec of a motorcycle oil? It is rated JASO MA.

[billybovine]

How does it not meet the spec of a motorcycle oil? It is rated JASO MA.

Don't change what I said. T6 is a general purpose engine oil not a motorcycle specific oil. It only has a JASO MA rating. If you think that is good enough, go for it.

[jcthorne]

No, Shell Rotella T6 full synthetic IS JASO MA2 rated. Data sheet linked below.

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Local_TDS_United_States_Shell_Rotella_T6_5W-40_(CJ-4)_(en-US)_TDS.pdf

[JayBros]

Looking at the tech data sheet the oil meets API service classifications SL, SJ, SH. Those are three of the four classifications listed in the 2014 RT operator's guide. That ought to be enough to float some people's boats.

[Richardv]

Thanks Bayaron for the quick, clear and concise answer. Really do appreciate it.

Richard

[Mazo EMS2]

I am not trying to start any oil war here. :lecturef_smilie: My dealer does not carry any 5-40 full synthetic oil in stock. :dontknow: He recommended Bel Ray 5-40 for me to buy. They recommend against, as per BRP, using any full synthetic. :sour: But, if I bring it in, they will use it. My question is. Of those using the Shell Rotella 5-40 full synthetic. Have you noticed any difference from the stock BRP semi syn.? How long do you run it? I see myself needing an oil change once a year. No where near the 9200 mile mark for a change. Another brand I am leaning toward is "Motorex". Made in Switzerland. :hun:
Any input? :thumbup: Tom :spyder:

I used the Rotella in my previous bike and had great luck with it. I just put it in the Spyder and so far seems to shift a bit smoother that it did with the BRP semi syn.

[BajaRon]

I've been using Castrol 5w40 Power RS Racing 4T full synthetic oil for almost 23K miles now. No problems at all. In the beginning I was just looking for an oil that I could buy locally and that is why I went with the Castrol. I can't confirm it but I have read many times that Castrol makes all of BRP's oils and lubes.

That is a JASO MA2 rated oil. Not the only criteria that matters. But to a 998 Rotax motor, a very important criteria.

[jerpinoy]

The best forum really.:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:Thank you guys for all the posts.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROTELLA-550036271-Diesel-Motor-Oil-Rotella-T6-5-gal-0W-40-/221682572250?hash=item339d4f9bda&item=221682572250&vxp=mtr


for those that want a deal plus

:spyder:......To the best of my knowledge T-6 only comes in 5W-40 ...and $ 206 for 5 gallons is a Total rip-off......I pay about $ 25.00 per gallon at Wallmart , so X 5 = $ 125.00 .....................Mike :thumbup:

[Rockwall]

No one should be able to tell any performance difference in oil. My dealer uses full synthetic as per BRP.

[Jeriatric]

Rotella T6 should be fine in a 1330 engine. It does not meet the spec of being a motorcycle specific oil but all other specs are OK. Cannot be used in a 998 engine.

BRP specifically states to use a synthetic blended or full synthetic oil, 5W40. It is real funny how because BRP does not recommend using their full synthetic because it is 0W40 it get expanded to no synthetic allowed WOW. :shocked:


QUICK ANSWER: Because BRP stated in their manual what type, weight and classification of oil can be used, its your personal and financial choice to make as to which manufacture to use. I will add that as a good maintenance practice, you should be consistent with using the same manufacture.

My 2010 - 2011 BRP Shop Manual states (on page 50) that if BRP XPS Oil is not available, you can use "...ANY 5W 40 synthetic motorcycle oil that meets the requirements for API service SL, SJ, SH, SG or higher classification...". There is a "Notice" to not use oil that meets API service SM or ILSAC GF-4 classification because clutch slippage will occur (998 engines). This "Notice" should be absent for the 1330 engines due to the engine/clutch being redesigned.

As long as you follow what BRP states is acceptable for their product, you are fine. Remember, you can't go wrong following what BRP says you can use on their product - not what is used on some other bike.

Hope this helps make it clearer....




I used it on my 09 GS and the clutch started to slip at about 2000 miles. Good luck!!!


Agreed, the Rotella T6 is a fine choice for the 1330 engines. Not so much for the v-twins with the centrifugal clutch.


998 driver here

It all comes down to communication

[jcthorne]

That was old information prior to BRP revised specs. Things change.....

[Jeriatric]

That was old information prior to BRP revised specs. Things change.....


Understood.

I honestly don't believe BRP has changed oil requirements for the 2008/2013 V Twin 998's.

And will stand by to hear from anyone who decides to run API M, N oil in there 998.

Not being argumentative. Just have first hand knowledge of the consequences.

[Eckhard]

Waiting to hear if T6 is good for a 998.

[jcthorne]

EVERY 998 that gets a dealer oil change in the last year or so has had oil installed with SN rating. What more evidence do you want? yes I have personal experience using it but that pales in comparison to the number of bikes already done across the dealer network.

[Jeriatric]

Waiting to hear if T6 is good for a 998.

Here's my experience. By complete accident but, my fault. I use T6 in my FJR. I always carry oil for it, and the Spyder. For space saving reasons I keep it in large squeezable, well sealing plastic mustard bottles. One for the FJR, and one for the Spyder(T6 in one & Amsoil in the other). So, we had been doing some housekeeping on both bikes(everything including the mustard bottles were stacked on a table) in a moment of brain freeze, I grabbed the wrong mustard bottle and emptied its contents into the Spyder. Very soon thereafter, the SE5 clutch started slipping. Damn me!

Well, I did some research and found that Lamont had had a similar problem with a 998(save he intentionally added new oil - that was NOT the recommended API class) and his clutch slipped too.

Per his post comments(still searchable here) he soon drained and replaced that oil with the recommended API for the 998. He said, after lots of miles and several oil changes(if I remember - around 25K later - it stopped slipping). Well, that didn't happen for me, even tho I had put far less oil in mine. I ended up replacing the clutch pack. Bye Bye $1000.00.

The choice is yours.

The mistake.........was mine:roflblack:

EDIT: Lamonts Post........... https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?6390-FYI-Shell-Rotella-synthetic&highlight=slipping+clutch

See his post #1 & #24.

Now ... stop trolling me over oil for the 998's. I'm done with it! < In NO way was THIS directed towards @Eckhard