Cat Bypass Installed (with Photos & Sound Clips)

[robmorg]

I just now picked up my Spyder from the dealer shop where it had been for the past 12 days getting a state inspection, routine maintenance, warranty work to replace the air compressor and a faulty hose in my ACS system, the installation of a Signal Dynamics Wig-Wag brake light modulator, and the installation of the Cat Bypass.

As part of my campaign to eliminate the excess heat on my 2013 RTL, I purchased a Lamonster Cat Bypass from Pitbull Powersports. I had previously wrapped the entire length of both exhaust headers with exhaust tape, and added bunches of heat shielding and reflective heat tape under the tupperware to eliminate heat on the fuel tank and coming up around the seat and glove box. (More details HERE (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?70618-Resolved-Upper-Heat-Problem).) That made a lot of difference, but the Cat Bypass was the obvious next step in this process. An equally important objective, in eliminating the catalytic converter, was to lessen the problems resulting from fuel boiling in the fuel tank - a characteristic problem for the 2013 RT. The fuel tank is located directly above the catalytic converter. Cats normally operate in the range of 800-1200° F, and gasoline begins to boil at only 140-160° F. When the catalytic converter is right under the fuel tank in an enclosed space, you can easily see the problem. Before having the bypass pipe installed I also wrapped that with exhaust tape, like the headers, to further reduce the heat.

I thought I'd share some initial comments about the Bypass, along with some before and after photo's and sound clips for those who may be interested. Since it is now December, I won't be able to determine the additional heat reduction until next summer, but I can share some initial observations.

I replaced this catalytic converter..... https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fPvFNz3YfXY/VIy3zHw6kxI/AAAAAAAAARU/qweKz6DU820/w489-h300-no/cat_sm.jpg

with this bypass pipe.... https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7479KQ6DeiY/VIy381Ab1VI/AAAAAAAAARc/IvDwYHgWgls/w545-h300-no/bypass_sm.jpg

They guys at the shop were impressed with how sturdy and professionally made the Lamonster Bypass pipe is. The things you see at the ends of the pipe are new gaskets that Pitbull also sent along.

The first difference I immediately noticed, upon picking up the Spyder today, was a more pleasing throatier exhaust sound. It's now deeper and just a little louder without being obnoxiously loud. (I still have the stock muffler.) The links below contain .WAV audio files.

Here's what it sounded like before the Bypass was installed (https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvvgjw56unbkc89/Before_Bypass.wav?dl=0).

Here's what it sounds like AFTER the Cat Bypass installation (https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqi7nx5zopoubqs/after_bypass.wav?dl=0).

In addition to the nicer sound, I was pleasantly surprised on my ride home today with some additional power in the lower gears. The Spyder is a bit more "peppy" now. I suppose that is due to the elimination of the back pressure being caused by the catalytic converter in the exhaust line.

[bmccaffrey]

I was under the impression that dealers would not install them:dontknow:

[progt]

I just now picked up my c

he dealer shop where it had been for the past 12 days getting a state inspection, routine maintenance, warranty work to replace the air compressor and a faulty hose in my ACS system, the installation of a Signal Dynamics Wig-Wag brake light modulator, and the installation of the Cat Bypass.

As part of my campaign to eliminate the excess heat on my 2013 RTL, I purchased a Lamonster Cat Bypass from Pitbull Powersports. I had previously wrapped the entire length of both exhaust headers with exhaust tape, and added bunches of heat shielding and reflective heat tape under the tupperware to eliminate heat on the fuel tank and coming up around the seat and glove box. That made a lot of difference, but the Cat Bypass was the obvious next step in this process. Before having the bypass pipe installed I also wrapped that with exhaust tape, like the headers.

I thought I'd share some initial comments about the Bypass, along with some before and after photo's and sound clips for those who may be interested. Since it is now December, I won't be able to determine the additional heat reduction until next summer, but I can share some initial observations.

I replaced this catalytic converter..... https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fPvFNz3YfXY/VIy3zHw6kxI/AAAAAAAAARU/qweKz6DU820/w489-h300-no/cat_sm.jpg

with this bypass pipe.... https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7479KQ6DeiY/VIy381Ab1VI/AAAAAAAAARc/IvDwYHgWgls/w545-h300-no/bypass_sm.jpg

They guys at the shop were impressed with how sturdy and professionally made the Lamonster Bypass pipe is. The things you see at the ends of the pipe are new gaskets that Pitbull also sent along.

The first difference I immediately noticed, upon picking up the Spyder today, was a more pleasing throatier exhaust sound. It's now deeper and just a little louder without being obnoxiously loud. (I still have the stock muffler.) The links below contain .WAV audio files.

Here's what it sounded like before the Bypass was installed (https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvvgjw56unbkc89/Before_Bypass.wav?dl=0).

Here's what it sounds like AFTER the Cat Bypass installation (https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqi7nx5zopoubqs/after_bypass.wav?dl=0).

In addition to the nicer sound, I was pleasantly surprised on my ride home today with some additional power in the lower gears. The Spyder is a bit more "peppy" now. I suppose that is due to the elimination of the back pressure being caused by the catalytic converter in the exhaust line.
What dealer is doing the right thing for its customers'min

[robmorg]

I was under the impression that dealers would not install them:dontknow:It depends on the dealer, and to some extent, on your state laws concerning requirements for emission control components on motorcycles. Luckily for me, PA does not require a catalytic converter on a motorcycle. Obviously, Pitbull in Missouri installs them. More and more dealers are beginning to install them. I think it may have something to do with their feeling the threat of sharing in the liability that BRP is currently experiencing due to the excess heat with the pre-2014 RT's and ST's. My dealer has been working with me for some time to resolve the heat problem (although mostly at my expense).

If your dealer will NOT install a Cat Bypass, and you cannot do it yourself, it's not that hard to find someone else who can. It's a relatively simple job for anyone who has worked with exhaust systems before. All you need to do is be able to lift the Spyder to work under it. Pitbull (or any dealer) sells the new gaskets you need for a couple of dollars.

[bmccaffrey]

Does it effect anything with computer (buds). Might be a question for Lamont:dontknow::dontknow:

[robmorg]

Does it effect anything with computer (buds). Might be a question for Lamont:dontknow::dontknow:No, the onboard computer (and therefore BUDS) is completely oblivious to the Cat Bypass. And it requires no changes in the mixture ratio, etc. However, as mentioned earlier, you do get a bit more power in the lower gears.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

However, as mentioned earlier, you do get a bit more power in the lower gears.
I believe the bypass did increase low end power some on my bike also, but it's hard to tell how much since I don't have any objective measurements before and after. Your description of the sound change is right on from my observation. However, unlike you I wasn't thrilled at all with the increased loudness! I guess quiet is one reason I loved my Goldwing so much. They're as quiet as a Cadillac. I wish my Spyder was the same. :(

[robmorg]

I guess quiet is one reason I loved my Goldwing so much. They're as quiet as a Cadillac. I wish my Spyder was the same. :(Well, that's the difference between a horizontally opposed six and a V twin. :D. I was never on the Goldwing, but I did spend an afternoon on a Honda Valkarie once. I remember being impressed with both the smoothness and the quietness of it for such a large bike.

[DrewNJ]

"Two hundred and thirteen"?...[emoji23] [emoji12]
Nice sound clips! There is a sound difference for sure, but not a crazy increase in sound. The bypass should also make a nice improvement with heat in the summer too.

[robmorg]

"Two hundred and thirteen"?...[emoji23] [emoji12]
Nice sound clips! There is a sound difference for sure, but not a crazy increase in sound. The bypass should also make a nice improvement with heat in the summer too.Drew,

It took me a while to figure out what you were referring to with the "Two hundred thirteen". ;) I made the "before" clip months ago, and the "after" clip just yesterday after picking up the bike. And I did it both times! :shocked::shocked: I'm like the dyslexic agnostic, who lost faith in his Dog. :sour:

I agree that the sound is not "that much" louder - just a little bit. But I do enjoy the deeper sound. Sounds more like the cruisers that I used to ride. When I originally ordered the bypass pipe from Pitbull, the guy there told me it would make my Spyder sound more like a "real bike". :rolleyes:

Last summer I did the ECM update (Warranty Bulletin 2013-9) which enrichened the fuel mixture at idle and slow speeds. While that did improve the heat a little (and make the engine run smoother) at slow speeds, it didn't do ANYTHING for the heat at normal riding speeds. Wrapping the headers and adding loads of heat shielding and reflective heat tape in strategic locations around the fuel tank and under the panels DID make a substantial difference. I'm optimistically hopeful the the wrapped Cat Bypass will add to what I've already done, to put an end to the heat problems for both the fuel and me, once and for all. I've never done anything about "right foot heat", as that has never bothered me much. But I think that will be addressed in the upcoming recall, whenever that happens.

[CoolSpyder2014]

The cat on your RT, excuse me, the cat that was on your RT looks a lot like the one they put on the 2014 RS, do you know if its the same part or the part number?
It does sound a lot less like a sewing machine and more like a bike with your bypass. Does the bypass void the warranty? any info is appreciated.
Robbie

[robmorg]

Robbie,

I don't know that the bypass pipe has a part number. It was designed by Lamontster and is sold by Pitbull Powersports (http://www.pitbullpowersportsinc.com) in Springfield Missouri. It is available for your RS, but it will likely be slightly different than mine. Just give them a call and they will answer any questions you have.

The bypass pipe will not void your warranty except in the unlikely event that its installation is directly responsible for failure of some warrantied part. The bypass pipe is also "invisible" to the BUDS computer.

[Xyzzy]

I'm posting this understanding that boiling fuel isn't a real nice thing to have.

FWIW:

Motor Vehicle: A motor vehicle is a self-propelled road vehicle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_vehicle), commonly wheeled, that does not operate on rails, such as trains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train) or trams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram). The vehicle propulsion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_propulsion) is provided by an engine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine) or motor, usually by an internal combustion engine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine), or an electric motor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor), or some combination of the two, such as hybrid electric vehicles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicle) and plug-in hybrids (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid). For legal purposes motor vehicles are often identified within a number of vehicle classes including cars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car), buses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus), motorcycles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle), off-road vehicles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-road_vehicle), light trucks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_truck) and regular trucks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck). These classifications vary according to the legal codes of each country. ISO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Organization_for_Standardization) 3833:1977 is the standard for road vehicles types, terms and definitions. [1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle#cite_note-1) Generally to avoid requiring handicapped persons from having to posess an operator's license to use one, or requiring tags and insurance, powered wheelchairs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelchair) will be specifically excluded by law from being considered motor vehicles.

Applicable law: The act of removing a catalytic converter without replacing it with an approved replacement (known as "tampering") is illegal under federal law and is of great concern to EPA because of the high pollution levels that are emitted by vehicles without properly functioning emission controls. The original antitampering law was part of the Clean Air Act of 1970; it applied only to manufacturers and car dealers. The antitampering law was expanded by the 1977 Clean Air Act Amendments to apply to all automobile repair facilities, commercial mechanics, and fleet operators. And the 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments (CAAA) broadened the tampering provision even further; it now applies to everyone, including car owners. Here is the text from the 1990 CAAA:
"Section 288 – Enforcement: (b) TAMPERING WITH VEHICLE EMISSION CONTROLS –
(1) Section 203(a)(3) (42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3)) is amended to read as follows:
'(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or
'(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use; or '

(2) At the end of section 203(a) (42 U.S.C. 7522(a)) insert the following:
'No action with respect to any device or element of design referred to in paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under that paragraph if (i) the action is for the purpose of repair or replacement of the device or element, or is a necessary and temporary procedure to repair or replace any other item and the device or element is replaced upon completion of the procedure, and (ii) such action thereafter results in the proper functioning of the device or element referred to in paragraph (3). No action with respect to any device or element of design referred to in paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under that paragraph if the action is for the purpose of a conversion of a motor vehicle for use of a clean alternative fuel (as defined in this title) and if such vehicle complies with the applicable standard under section 202 when operating on such fuel, and if in the case of a clean alternative fuel vehicle (as defined by rule by the Administrator), the device or element is replaced upon completion of the conversion procedure and such action results in proper functioning of the device or element when the motor vehicle operates on conventional fuel.'."

The resale of a vehicle which has already had the catalytic converter removed is not specifically addressed by federal law. Therefore, the person who removed the converter violated federal law, but not necessarily the person who sold the vehicle. However, the sale of vehicles that have had the emission control system removed, disabled, or tampered with may be further governed by state or local laws.

Link: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/about/faq.htm#question13

Summary: This is a federal issue and not a state issue.

YMMV

[robmorg]

Ah, thank Heaven for all the lofty federal regulators! What would we possibly do without them? :shocked:

[CoolSpyder2014]

ROB, Thank you for the info. I also did some research on a OEM suppliers page for the Can Am Spyder 2013 RTL @ http://www.canampartsking.com/oemparts/a/cam/515dd88ef870021c2470a45d/exhaust-system and found that this assembly is the identical part number for the 2014 Can Am Spyder RS on this page http://www.canampartsking.com/oemparts/a/cam/53f543c6f870021dbc21b739/exhaust-system
So, the part including the pipe bends, are identical. Also, I found that the O2 sensors are installed at the bend's of the header pipes, not in or aft of this assembly, that's why they do not report an issue to B.U.D.S., because as far as the computer is concerned, a condition does not exist. By the way this assembly is referred to by the Supplier as a Muffler assembly. So on a technicality, its not called a CAT. And I embrace technicality

[robmorg]

By the way this assembly is referred to by the Supplier as a Muffler assembly. So on a technicality, its not called a CAT. And I embrace technicalityThat's correct. It is actually referred to by BRP as the "Primary Muffler" (which makes the one it feeds into on the side of the bike a "secondary muffler", I guess). So technically, since it is a "muffler" and not a "catalytic converter", one could safely infer that would make the federal regs quoted above moot. Sometimes it's good to embrace technicality. ;)

[PaladinLV]

This is why the Spyder does not have catalytic converter!
There is no law against changing a MUFFLER or in the case of CanAm Primary Muffler.
Additionally, many states have no inspection or requirement for Emission Testing.
For example here is the Nevada exemptions.

Exempt VehiclesThe following vehicles are exempt from emission testing:


New motor vehicles on their first and second registration.
New hybrid-electric vehicles for the first 5 model years.
1967 or older.
Motorcycle or moped. (Note: As of 1 June the law was changed to include all three wheeled vehicles as Tri-Mobiles and registered and licensed under Motorcycle class without the need for M endorsement)
Vehicles based in remote areas of Clark and Washoe counties and all other Nevada counties (see Testing Areas (http://www.dmvnv.com/emission_areas.htm) or call us (http://www.dmvnv.com/emission.htm#Contacts)).
Alternative fuel vehicles.
Diesel vehicles with a gross vehicle weight of 14,001 pounds or greater.
Transfer of ownership/registration if the last test was conducted within 90 days before the transfer.
Transfer of ownership/registration between husband and wife.
Transfer of ownership/registration between companies whose principal business is leasing vehicles if there is no change in the lessee or operator of the vehicle.
Vehicles registered as a Classic Rod, Classic Vehicle or Old Timer and driven 5,000 miles or less per year.
Vehicles registered as a Replica Vehicle.

Due to Federal Interstate Laws if a vehicle is LEGALLY licensed and registered in NV, the remaining 49 states must accept the vehicle a LAWFUL.

AJ


I'm posting this understanding that boiling fuel isn't a real nice thing to have.

FWIW:

Motor Vehicle: A motor vehicle is a self-propelled road vehicle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_vehicle), commonly wheeled, that does not operate on rails, such as trains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train) or trams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram). The vehicle propulsion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_propulsion) is provided by an engine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine) or motor, usually by an internal combustion engine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine), or an electric motor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor), or some combination of the two, such as hybrid electric vehicles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicle) and plug-in hybrids (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid). For legal purposes motor vehicles are often identified within a number of vehicle classes including cars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car), buses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus), motorcycles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle), off-road vehicles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-road_vehicle), light trucks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_truck) and regular trucks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck). These classifications vary according to the legal codes of each country. ISO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Organization_for_Standardization) 3833:1977 is the standard for road vehicles types, terms and definitions. [1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle#cite_note-1) Generally to avoid requiring handicapped persons from having to posess an operator's license to use one, or requiring tags and insurance, powered wheelchairs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelchair) will be specifically excluded by law from being considered motor vehicles.

Applicable law: The act of removing a catalytic converter without replacing it with an approved replacement (known as "tampering") is illegal under federal law and is of great concern to EPA because of the high pollution levels that are emitted by vehicles without properly functioning emission controls. The original antitampering law was part of the Clean Air Act of 1970; it applied only to manufacturers and car dealers. The antitampering law was expanded by the 1977 Clean Air Act Amendments to apply to all automobile repair facilities, commercial mechanics, and fleet operators. And the 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments (CAAA) broadened the tampering provision even further; it now applies to everyone, including car owners. Here is the text from the 1990 CAAA:
"Section 288 – Enforcement: (b) TAMPERING WITH VEHICLE EMISSION CONTROLS –
(1) Section 203(a)(3) (42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3)) is amended to read as follows:
'(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or
'(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use; or '

(2) At the end of section 203(a) (42 U.S.C. 7522(a)) insert the following:
'No action with respect to any device or element of design referred to in paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under that paragraph if (i) the action is for the purpose of repair or replacement of the device or element, or is a necessary and temporary procedure to repair or replace any other item and the device or element is replaced upon completion of the procedure, and (ii) such action thereafter results in the proper functioning of the device or element referred to in paragraph (3). No action with respect to any device or element of design referred to in paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under that paragraph if the action is for the purpose of a conversion of a motor vehicle for use of a clean alternative fuel (as defined in this title) and if such vehicle complies with the applicable standard under section 202 when operating on such fuel, and if in the case of a clean alternative fuel vehicle (as defined by rule by the Administrator), the device or element is replaced upon completion of the conversion procedure and such action results in proper functioning of the device or element when the motor vehicle operates on conventional fuel.'."

The resale of a vehicle which has already had the catalytic converter removed is not specifically addressed by federal law. Therefore, the person who removed the converter violated federal law, but not necessarily the person who sold the vehicle. However, the sale of vehicles that have had the emission control system removed, disabled, or tampered with may be further governed by state or local laws.

Link: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/about/faq.htm#question13

Summary: This is a federal issue and not a state issue.

YMMV

[Xyzzy]

I shouldn't reply to this because it is obvious that your mind is made up and no amount of facts will convince you otherwise.

But:

Emissions testing is not the same thing as tampering with emissions equipment.

There is no emissions testing where i live. It is still illegal to tamper with emissions equipment.

You can weasel-word the definition of a primary muffler versus a catalytic converter and play all sorts of games. That "creative thinking" will be laughed at in court.

What are the chances of getting caught? Probably very low. (A dealer who does modifications has a greater chance of getting caught and has much more to lose.)

However, all that said, how about the real reason we have emission gear on our vehicles: Clean air?

Have you seen the smog in China? No regulation there. No rules. Every man for himself.

A lot of older (baby boomer generation) people rant and rave about "federal interference" in their lives. Without regulation we'd still have 4 grams of lead in each gallon of gas. People don't self regulate because people (in general) are greedy and care for the moment, not the future.

We are supposed to be good stewards of the Earth.

You can reply to this and call me a hippie or a liberal or whatever you want. I've seen what mankind does when lawlessness is the norm. Most likely you haven't. It isn't pretty.

Instead of thinking of "me" (Better sound? Better mileage? Less heat? Whatever else a cat removal does?) think about your children and their children.

I won't reply to this thread any more so save yourself the trouble of replying.

In all seriousness, I wish you a good day.

[jaherbst]

Did Bypass on both my Spyders. Did little for the heat or power but sure enjoyed the sound. Pit Bull did both of mine.

Jack

[CoolSpyder2014]

Rob, by any chance do you have any side picture of the primary muffler and the bypass?
I would like to see how high the inlet pipes are..
If so, can you post them here or send to my email LRobertson327@gmail.com.
Thanks
Robbie

[PaladinLV]

Yes have I SEEN the smog in China as well as over 100 other cities around the world.
I have also seen it in LA which gee wiz they have emissions equipment!
It's funny when presented with facts - they become "weasel words". When presented with FACTS you go on the offensive like it was a personal attack!
Next you bring politics into the mix!
Then you act like you were personally branded.
Sounds like you have a "PROBLEM! and buddy, you have no CLUE what I've seen in my life, where I've been, or what I've done.
I served this country for 23 years. I've been spat on, called names, seen horrendous things, and taken all kinds of crap in my service to this country so don't even go there.
For your information, Harley Dealers are constantly removing the standard pipes which contain CAT devices and replacing headers and mufflers. So much for your statement "(A dealer who does modifications has a greater chance of getting caught and has much more to lose.)"

BTW I like wasting my time replying especially when people say it will be a waste of time!

If "it all depends what, is is" can make it thru the courts, I'm not worried.
You should worry more about your own life and stop trying to force your views and opinions on others.
You have the absolute RIGHT to your OPINION but so does everyone else.

AJ

I shouldn't reply to this because it is obvious that your mind is made up and no amount of facts will convince you otherwise.

But:

Emissions testing is not the same thing as tampering with emissions equipment.

There is no emissions testing where i live. It is still illegal to tamper with emissions equipment.

You can weasel-word the definition of a primary muffler versus a catalytic converter and play all sorts of games. That "creative thinking" will be laughed at in court.

What are the chances of getting caught? Probably very low. (A dealer who does modifications has a greater chance of getting caught and has much more to lose.)

However, all that said, how about the real reason we have emission gear on our vehicles: Clean air?

Have you seen the smog in China? No regulation there. No rules. Every man for himself.

A lot of older (baby boomer generation) people rant and rave about "federal interference" in their lives. Without regulation we'd still have 4 grams of lead in each gallon of gas. People don't self regulate because people (in general) are greedy and care for the moment, not the future.

We are supposed to be good stewards of the Earth.

You can reply to this and call me a hippie or a liberal or whatever you want. I've seen what mankind does when lawlessness is the norm. Most likely you haven't. It isn't pretty.

Instead of thinking of "me" (Better sound? Better mileage? Less heat? Whatever else a cat removal does?) think about your children and their children.

I won't reply to this thread any more so save yourself the trouble of replying.

In all seriousness, I wish you a good day.

[GeoffCee]

...However, all that said, how about the real reason we have emission gear on our vehicles: Clean air?

Have you seen the smog in China? No regulation there. No rules. Every man for himself.



China has a highly regulated and repressed Communist society, so "no rules" and "every man for himself" couldn't be further from the truth. Have you seen the smog in LA on a bad day? ;)

[CoolSpyder2014]

Say you drive your v twin 998 motorcycle to work. How much fuel on average do you burn in 1 hour? and how much pollution is created by that burn?
These are rhetorical question's.
The amount in the BIG picture is microscopic.
Look at a Jet liner, How much fuel does one of these burn in 1 hour? 100-1000's of gallon, and where is the pollution control there. or on most power plants or factories.
The EPA and the government can make all kinds of excuses, of why the put controls on cars, but the fact is, they are in bed with the oil and auto companies.
Put pollution quote-unquote equipment on vehicles, and what happens to the fuel consumption, it goes up to overcome the back pressure and pollutant put back into the engine. hence more money for oil companies because they sell more fuel, and more money for the auto industry because they get kick backs from the government and more money from you because they are selling you more part then is needed. It has been proven that high performance engine's, such for racing, not only makes more power, but burns fuel cleaner then your government approved pollution controlled vehicle.
So they need to change the focus, how about instead of the extra equipment, they make the engines perform better, they could be smaller, yielding the same power we get now, but burn much less fuel and with a cleaner burn? And hence, then where would they get all that extra money they have grown accustom too?
Makes you think, Just how free are we?

[DJ51]

I had the Lamonster bypass put on my Spyder right off after seeing a CAT that Pitbull had cut open. Its nothing but piece of metal with a baffel in it from what I saw. Nothing in it that resembled a catalytic converter. Looks like all it does is muffle the sound some and hold heat. BRP lists it as a Primary Muffler in their parts list. I like the sound better and gives me one or two more mpg.

[robmorg]

I shouldn't reply to this because it is obvious that your mind is made up and no amount of facts will convince you otherwise.

But:

Emissions testing is not the same thing as tampering with emissions equipment.

There is no emissions testing where i live. It is still illegal to tamper with emissions equipment.

You can weasel-word the definition of a primary muffler versus a catalytic converter and play all sorts of games. That "creative thinking" will be laughed at in court.

What are the chances of getting caught? Probably very low. (A dealer who does modifications has a greater chance of getting caught and has much more to lose.)

However, all that said, how about the real reason we have emission gear on our vehicles: Clean air?

Have you seen the smog in China? No regulation there. No rules. Every man for himself.

A lot of older (baby boomer generation) people rant and rave about "federal interference" in their lives. Without regulation we'd still have 4 grams of lead in each gallon of gas. People don't self regulate because people (in general) are greedy and care for the moment, not the future.

We are supposed to be good stewards of the Earth.

You can reply to this and call me a hippie or a liberal or whatever you want. I've seen what mankind does when lawlessness is the norm. Most likely you haven't. It isn't pretty.

Instead of thinking of "me" (Better sound? Better mileage? Less heat? Whatever else a cat removal does?) think about your children and their children.

I won't reply to this thread any more so save yourself the trouble of replying.

In all seriousness, I wish you a good day.
I'll grant you that some federal regulation is a good thing. But in recent years the feds have, more often than not, taken regulation to extremes, often causing more actual net harm than good. Enough said about that.

For me, the decision to remove the cat was purely a safety decision. (Other benefits were entirely secondary to safety.) Before the recall was done on my 2013 RT, I simply did not want to die in a fire as a result of boiling gasoline overflowing the evap system.

But just so you know, I also acted responsibly with an environmentally neutral impact in mind. At the time I removed the cat, I also pledged to eat more beef, reasoning that the methane emissions from just one farting cow, was doing more damage to the planet than the emissions from my Spyder. It's a well known fact that flatulating livestock is the largest source of methane gas emissions worldwide, contributing over 28% of total emissions. (I have, by the way, honored my pledge.)

This may not be true for SpyderAnn (who's RT actually burned in a fire, but thankfully she was uninjured), since she puts a LOT more miles on her Spyder than I do. :rolleyes:

[robmorg]

Rob, by any chance do you have any side picture of the primary muffler and the bypass?
I would like to see how high the inlet pipes are..
If so, can you post them here or send to my email LRobertson327@gmail.com.
Thanks
Robbie Sorry, I do not. The only pictures I have are those in the first post of this thread. Just going by memory, I'd say that the primary muffler is about 8-10" from the base of it to the top of the higher inlet. There's more clearance under the bypass pipe.

[CoolSpyder2014]

well,
I finally got around to taking my spyder apart to put the PitBull Cat bypass on , and after I removed the cat, I found interesting info on the bottom of it. It is not a catalytic convertor, it is for the reduction of sound emissions. Nothing in it saves the environment from anything coming out of the engine except a few decibels of sounds. So the environment is no more endangered by its removal. in fact hauling around a few less pounds might save fuel, not much but overtime it adds up, get everyone to replace it, and we could be making a big difference.

[DrewNJ]

well,
I finally got around to taking my spyder apart to put the PitBull Cat bypass on , and after I removed the cat, I found interesting info on the bottom of it. It is not a catalytic convertor, it is for the reduction of sound emissions. Nothing in it saves the environment from anything coming out of the engine except a few decibels of sounds. So the environment is no more endangered by its removal. in fact hauling around a few less pounds might save fuel, not much but overtime it adds up, get everyone to replace it, and we could be making a big difference.
Did you happen to take any picks of the inside once you cut it open?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[SpyderCruiser]

well,
I finally got around to taking my spyder apart to put the PitBull Cat bypass on , and after I removed the cat, I found interesting info on the bottom of it. It is not a catalytic convertor, it is for the reduction of sound emissions. Nothing in it saves the environment from anything coming out of the engine except a few decibels of sounds. So the environment is no more endangered by its removal. in fact hauling around a few less pounds might save fuel, not much but overtime it adds up, get everyone to replace it, and we could be making a big difference.

That is not what this page from the manual says.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=128194&d=1460850621

[robmorg]

well,
I finally got around to taking my spyder apart to put the PitBull Cat bypass on , and after I removed the cat, I found interesting info on the bottom of it. It is not a catalytic convertor, it is for the reduction of sound emissions. Nothing in it saves the environment from anything coming out of the engine except a few decibels of sounds. So the environment is no more endangered by its removal. in fact hauling around a few less pounds might save fuel, not much but overtime it adds up, get everyone to replace it, and we could be making a big difference.
It does have some baffling in it. BRP manuals refer to it as both the "primary muffler" AND as the "catalytic converter". I'm curious about your post. Could you please explain more fully the "Interesting info" you found that lead you to beleave that it does NOT also perform the function of a catalytic converter?

[SteveP]

Just wondering if anyone knows what the "catalytic converter " is made of on the Spyders ? In the cutaway photo is there any type of honeycomb grid made of catalyst material to break up the chemicals ? What's the structure of the box made of ... platinum , palidium etc .? Just wondering if there is new technology being used to break down the gases instead of the typical systems ?

[CoolSpyder2014]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=128621&stc=1http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=128622&stc=1 this is the info I reference too. No I did not cut mine open, I will reinstall it before I trade the bike in on a new one.

[robmorg]

CoolSpyder, thanks for the reply. I can see why you came to the conclusion that you did. The jury is still out, however, on whether or not that unit ALSO performs the same function as a catalytic converter. It sure would be interesting if someone DID cut one apart to find out. I, for one, would be curious to know for sure. (However not so curious as to actually cut mine apart. I don't ever intend to re-install mine, but I will give it away with the bike if I ever sell it or trade it in.)

[WRTFLYR]

I have been lurking on this forum for over a month now, since I bought my 2016 RT Limited. :yes: Went in to Ride Now Peoria to buy a Slingshot and drove out on a Spyder! I couldn't be happier :p. As a 30 year Harley rider the only thing I really missed was the exhaust music! After reading all the advice on this forum I knew I had to rectify that longing! So on went the cat bypass and a TwoBrothers exhaust muffler! She now sings! As far as dealer help with the install, no problem at Ride Now Peoria! So hear a short clip of what she sounds like! Cheers Jim. :yes: http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx248/YELO911/th_1B11EE18-65BD-411F-95D7-5F60395ABE9A.jpg (http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx248/YELO911/1B11EE18-65BD-411F-95D7-5F60395ABE9A.mp4)

[robmorg]

Nice sound. Have to say... It DOES sound more like a Harley now. ;) You've got that RTL very nicely farkled.

Couldn't help but also notice this (http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx248/YELO911/BF1C6F68-193C-4206-8CC9-3C61EBCBF82C.jpg). Do you own that Interplane Skyboy experimental pusher? THAT is downright beautiful. :thumbup:

Oh, and... :welcome:

[DrewNJ]

Nice sound. Have to say... It DOES sound more like a Harley now. ;)

You are on crack![emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]



Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[WRTFLYR]

......
Couldn't help but also notice this (http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx248/YELO911/BF1C6F68-193C-4206-8CC9-3C61EBCBF82C.jpg). Do you own that Interplane Skyboy experimental pusher? THAT is downright beautiful. :thumbup:

Oh, and... :welcome:

Yes, it's a 2003 that I am in the process of getting airworthy! Cheers Jim:cheers:

[trikermutha]

I have been lurking on this forum for over a month now, since I bought my 2016 RT Limited. :yes: Went in to Ride Now Peoria to buy a Slingshot and drove out on a Spyder! I couldn't be happier :p. As a 30 year Harley rider the only thing I really missed was the exhaust music! After reading all the advice on this forum I knew I had to rectify that longing! So on went the cat bypass and a TwoBrothers exhaust muffler! She now sings! As far as dealer help with the install, no problem at Ride Now Peoria! So hear a short clip of what she sounds like! Cheers Jim. :yes: http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx248/YELO911/th_1B11EE18-65BD-411F-95D7-5F60395ABE9A.jpg (http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx248/YELO911/1B11EE18-65BD-411F-95D7-5F60395ABE9A.mp4)

What are you thoughts on the Slingshot versus the Spyder??

[WRTFLYR]

I have to admit that I have not actually driven the Slingshot! But when my wife and I went to purchase one they had a white Limited that we both sat in and went over very carefully! We both felt that we were in a 3 wheel car that was cheaply made. From the very beginning I was not impressed with the fit and finish of the Slingshot. At this point I was thinking maybe I just need to convert my Harley to a 3 wheeler, then I decided to just walk across the showroom and sit on a RT Limited they had! I immediately felt like I was on a motorcycle and quality of the RT was night and day better! So I went home with the RT Limited and so far so good! Cheers Jim:thumbup:

[trikermutha]

I have to admit that I have not actually driven the Slingshot! But when my wife and I went to purchase one they had a white Limited that we both sat in and went over very carefully! We both felt that we were in a 3 wheel car that was cheaply made. From the very beginning I was not impressed with the fit and finish of the Slingshot. At this point I was thinking maybe I just need to convert my Harley to a 3 wheeler, then I decided to just walk across the showroom and sit on a RT Limited they had! I immediately felt like I was on a motorcycle and quality of the RT was night and day better! So I went home with the RT Limited and so far so good! Cheers Jim:thumbup:

Thanks for the Slingshot info..

I went from a TRIGLIDE to A Spyder and have no regrets.
Much smoother and less Maint than the Harley.
A lot less Heat than the Harley..

[SpyderCruiser]

CoolSpyder, thanks for the reply. I can see why you came to the conclusion that you did. The jury is still out, however, on whether or not that unit ALSO performs the same function as a catalytic converter. It sure would be interesting if someone DID cut one apart to find out. I, for one, would be curious to know for sure. (However not so curious as to actually cut mine apart. I don't ever intend to re-install mine, but I will give it away with the bike if I ever sell it or trade it in.)

Here is a photo of the inside of the primary muffler. It definitely has a catalyst inside. So the previous post I made from the service manual is correct. It is a catalytic converter. My Spyder is running very well with the bypass pipe and baffle.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=133675&d=1468188022

[trikermutha]

So much for trying to remove the cat from the unit and reinstalling on the bike. I seen the Harley's cut out the insides of the cat and reweld it back up they have a decat pipe now.
Doesn't look like the Can AM Cat would be possible without a lot of work..

[QuadRAGIN]

It depends on the dealer, and to some extent, on your state laws concerning requirements for emission control components on motorcycles. Luckily for me, PA does not require a catalytic converter on a motorcycle. Obviously, Pitbull in Missouri installs them. More and more dealers are beginning to install them. I think it may have something to do with their feeling the threat of sharing in the liability that BRP is currently experiencing due to the excess heat with the pre-2014 RT's and ST's. My dealer has been working with me for some time to resolve the heat problem (although mostly at my expense).

If your dealer will NOT install a Cat Bypass, and you cannot do it yourself, it's not that hard to find someone else who can. It's a relatively simple job for anyone who has worked with exhaust systems before. All you need to do is be able to lift the Spyder to work under it. Pitbull (or any dealer) sells the new gaskets you need for a couple of dollars.

Pitbull??