Hey BRP👂👂👂👂👂👂

[Mike,P]

I posted this to BRPs Facebook page tooooo..

I'm a HUGE fan and just ordered my second Spyder,,, an F3s 😎 If I could make a suggestion it would be : How about you guys price these things better at the beginning of the year instead of the up to $4,000 off at the end of the year,,, that way your customers who have already taken the 1st years depreciation hit don't have to take another $4,000 hit.. If BRP can sell these things for $4000 less at the end of the year,, they can sell them for $2000 less at the beginning of the year and still be good!!! Taking a $10,000 bath on a product that costs $30,000 plus is a LIL MUCH... One more thing you guys have officially gone above and beyond the call of silly with your accessory prices!!! I thought H-D BMW were bad but you guys have raised the bar... Over $500 for a backrest??? Over $1200 dollars for side luggage that would still be toooo much money even if it held more,,, which it doesn't... Seriously BRP,,, try to not beat the crap out of your customers and their wallets 😃 There's enough money to be made without the over charging on products that you as a company seem to be getting WAY to comfortable with... Ease up on us,,, will ya...

[ARtraveler]

Looks like some good suggestions to me. :yes:


:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popc orn::popcorn::popcorn:

[MRH]

Essentially, what you are saying is why not just charge $2000 less overall. I might be wrong, but I have a feeling that there wouldn't be enough profit left to make it worthwhile to make these with that kind of a discount. They aren't beating us up by offering a(n often predictable) $4000 discount - they do that specifically because they have inventory to sell off, and they only offer that price on what is left unsold. If you can wait till the end of the season and don't mind last year's models, and you're willing to chance what is left, the discounts are yours.

Would you feel better if they just gave a $2000 discount on that product that they need to clear out?

I have noticed that they're still trying to move 2013's (with good reason on the RT's), and I don't know if we'll see that level of a discount on the 2014's or not (after all, the Spyders seem unchanged except for the colors).

Here's the thing - they are in business to made the best product they can sell at a profitable price.

Now, on the F3 accessories, I do hope that they reconsider their price points, but if they don't then I have a feeling there will be far more aftermarket competition for them.

[Mike,P]

Looks like some good suggestions to me. :yes:


:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popc orn::popcorn::popcorn:

It's just truth / not meant to be antagonistic at all.. I love Spyders 😎

[Bob Denman]

Hi Mike,
I believe that you believe that... :D
But if you expect them to "give away the store"; how long can they remain in business? :dontknow:
"Good", is rarely cheap...
But "cheap", will make you realize how much "Good" is truly worth! :2thumbs:

[Mike,P]

They'd hardly be giving away the store by selling the spyders up front at a lower price point vs fire sale pricing 7 months later.. As for the accessory pricing,, I doubt anyone can argue that it's a great bang for anyone's buck..

[Mike,P]

This post,,, while some may not agree with it,, speaks to some of the concerns that many have.. Don't think for a minute that these have not been communicated from the consumer and dealer to BRP,,, especially after the last two model years..The more birds singing on the fence / the louder the song.. Again,, this post was / is not meant to be inflammatory...

[ARtraveler]

Your good Mike! You are never going to please all the people all the time. Heck, sometimes here, you cannot please anyone. :roflblack:

The price points scare a lot people, but not everyone. I have backed off of "genuine" accessories pretty much big time. Like you, I have still been happy enough with the product to buy more than one. :yes:

[Netminder]

Have to agree with Mike, especially on the accessories! They are way over priced, most of the mods I have done are aftermarket for that reason. They could easily make them a bit more affordable and still make money! As for their clothing, it is all made in China,(most of it anyway)so you can be sure they are making a crap load of cash there!:lecturef_smilie:

[GunDoctor]

I don't think they can make stuff cheaper, I don't think that is even an issue. The issue is the price is just too high for what they are trying to sell. 99.00 for a license plate...really. I got my chrome , engraved solid frame at the fair, $12 bucks for my bike. I just don't understand how one expects to pay 3-6 times more than what competitor's after market products go for. I have the F-3 accessory book. There is nothing I will order from it, Using the WAG method to price is ridicules.

[Chupaca]

there are two ways of making money...sell a few for a lot of money or sell a lot for a little money. If they are ordering minimal amounts they will be paying high dollar. Would explain the lack of stock and the high price on parts and acc's. They know they have a short time before the aftermarket guys get into the mix. The problem now is the aftermarket guys will also be high priced if they don't have high sales. I have been in R&D and manufacturing and know they are out of line on their pricing...jmo...:thumbup:

[The-BigDog-30]

This post,,, while some may not agree with it,, speaks to some of the concerns that many have.. Don't think for a minute that these have not been communicated from the consumer and dealer to BRP,,, especially after the last two model years..The more birds singing on the fence / the louder the song.. Again,, this post was / is not meant to be inflammatory...


Have to agree with Mike, BRP should take notes!

[Orange Spyder Man]

if BRP can still make a profit at the end of the year taking $4,000 off... Mike has a valid point..

[Orange Spyder Man]

if BRP can still make a profit at the end of the year taking $4,000 off... Mike has a valid point.. and I totally agree.... BRP's accessories are way over priced..

[hchays]

Anyone that thinks BRP is not making a substantial profit with the $4000 is contributing to the problem. Looking at BRP sales report they are continuing to increase profits (just like the oil companies). Yes, BRP just as any business is operating to make a profit. However there is a breaking point on all products that the consumer shuts down. I for one would be very interested in the F3, but I can not justify spending that kind of money for what your getting. What your getting for the money is what needs to be thought about. You can buy a nicely optioned brand new car/truck for the same price or cheaper than a Spyder.... I know, I know... it's a volume pricing thing. The auto companies can sell their product for less because they sell more of them. Well for all of those that think that way, I agree! So bring your prices into check and increase the motorcycle market share. BRP is not a start-up company. They have been making other recreational equipment for years. I also agree that a company needs to make a certain profit to continue business. However when your product is priced so it can only be marketed to a small share of the market what do you think is going to happen? I know they also make the LearJet, but I can't afford it either. At the price point BRP has and continues to increase with little market growth they are only opening the door for competition to build something similar at a much lower price point.

[ARtraveler]

There are a couple of us cost accountant types here. I won't bore you with technical details as we have actually done some of that in another thread which will remain nameless. :roflblack:

Pricing on new items is generally based on making profit X. All the costs are input and then, the selling price is determined. The price is then compared to other products on the market and they determine "what the market will bear." That is usually the price that hits the streets. If something is "new and wonderful," then you can expect the "what the market will bear" price early on or continuing if they get away with it.

The companies do this to recoup their R & D costs as they are required to expense them as they are incurred. Lots of R & D equates to less profit on the bottom line as the products are being developed.

Accessories have always been very high margin and that is where the company "makes its gravy."

[Bob Denman]

It's simple: don't buy one, if you don't think that you're getting enough value for your dollars... ;) nojoke

[hchays]

It's simple: don't buy one, if you don't think that you're getting enough value for your dollars... ;) nojoke

:agree: I for one will not be spending $20,000+ for a entry level F3.

[Mike,P]

I know more than just a little about this too,,, I've been involved in the manufacturing industry for over 40yrs,,so please don't mistake this as a willy nilly rant.. Like every topic there will be those that agree and those that don't... To Bob Denman ,, your take it or leave it tone with many of your posts including this one is just silly... Many have stated these concerns in different threads for some time now... You don't like the topic of the post,, that's fine but don't act like the post nazi just to run your post count up!!! Like I said n I'll say it one more time for BOB / the post was not meant to be a fire starter so don't make it one with your all or nothing / Take it or leave it "Tude"

[ARtraveler]

It's simple: don't buy one, if you don't think that you're getting enough value for your dollars... ;) nojoke

I think that is happening a lot these days. The entry level :spyder2: is still at $16K. There is a lot of stuff--two wheels--that is pretty top line for a bit less. If you want three wheels though--we are in both the low and medium price range. The :ani29: does have a lot more amenities for the buck--if you compare three wheels to three wheels.

[den1953]

When it comes to brand new trikes at the entry level, the new stripped-down Harley Davidson trike is about $25,000. There is a Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki dealer about 25 miles from here selling Kawasakis with Lehman trike kits on them. The entry level with those is a Vulcan 900 triked out for $16,000 to $18,000 and the top of the line Vulcan Voyager trike is about $31,000. I guess it depends on what your idea of entry level is and where it's made. Comparing conventional trikes to Spyders is still apples to oranges in my opinion.

[OJ UK]

It's simple: don't buy one, if you don't think that you're getting enough value for your dollars... ;) nojoke

It depends on why you're buying a trike in the first place. :)

If like me you're a 'dyed in the wool' biker who can no longer safely ride a big bike then a trike is very high on your list of priorities.
On the other hand if buying a trike is merely an addition to your 'toys' then, perhaps, the importance of having one in your garage is somewhat less.

In the UK I can buy a small but well appointed new car for less than what a Spyder costs and it would be cheaper to run and maintain but
I have to own a bike and until I can't swing a over one that's how it will be.

The price of the F3-S over here is a little under $30k (£18,400) and I'm in no way a wealthy person so it represents a HUGE expenditure for me.
I lose around 10% of that figure the moment I start it for the first time (tax+depreciation). I don't have any family though so I only have to worry about
me.

The Spyder is a luxury vehicle and no-one actually needs one any more than anyone needs a Ferrari!
Very few people have one as their sole mode of transport, thus BRP are catering to a niche market and can charge as much as people
are willing to pay and at that point value goes out of the window.
There are really no alternatives. As den1953 said comparing an HD or in fact any converted bike to a Spyder is 'apples and oranges'.

[SpyderBandit]

Have to agree with Mike, especially on the accessories! They are way over priced, most of the mods I have done are aftermarket for that reason. They could easily make them a bit more affordable and still make money! As for their clothing, it is all made in China,(most of it anyway)so you can be sure they are making a crap load of cash there!:lecturef_smilie:
I was about to mention prices and "China" but you beat me to it. The margins must be huge using China as a manufacturer.:yikes:

[Dudley]

The prices of goods are set at what the market will bare. If the prices are, or seem to be too high, then the market should let the seller know by not buying the product. As a comparison, check out the Corbin saddlebag price! They have more storage, but the price difference is $500 more than the BRP bags. Our first Spyder, a 2008 GS, the passenger back rest was $650 installed. I am not saying I am in agreement about the BRP prices, just that we have some leverage as to what they will charge, If we are patient some good quality after-market goods will provide us with what we want.

[den1953]

BRP isn't the only player using Asian/Third World suppliers for clothing & accessories. I've bought quite a few Victory clothing items at my dealer and they're all made in China or Vietnam or some other third world source. Harley Davidson is probably the all time king of this type of marketing. Anymore these days it's becoming the way business is done period. Outsourcing has pretty much left much of the USA with tens of thousands of shuttered factories and millions of displaced workers either jobless or working for lower pay. I'll just let it go at that and avoid any kind of arguments.

[Dragonrider]

BTW, the quality of the HD apparel is tops - I buy ALL my riding apparel at my local HD dealer....

If you take a single example: the backrest for the RT at roughly $500, and compare it to the backrest from Corbin, Bike Specialties, and others at $200 to $300, you can see the point. I know that tooling for unique parts is high, and the required engineering is more. The competition makes parts that fit more than one bike, and just add/change parts needed to fit the Spyder. That approach could be adapted by BRP, but they do not seem to want the volume sales.

Accounting says you spread the up front costs over the expected sales volume to the material costs, and add 20%. The argument is lower prices mean higher volume, and you get to the same point at Quarterly reporting time... Something doesn't seem to match up at BRP...

[Netminder]

BRP isn't the only player using Asian/Third World suppliers for clothing & accessories. I've bought quite a few Victory clothing items at my dealer and they're all made in China or Vietnam or some other third world source. Harley Davidson is probably the all time king of this type of marketing. Anymore these days it's becoming the way business is done period. Outsourcing has pretty much left much of the USA with tens of thousands of shuttered factories and millions of displaced workers either jobless or working for lower pay. I'll just let it go at that and avoid any kind of arguments.
I agree, and it is very sad. One of the reason I go out of my way and will pay a bit more to find something made in Canada or the U.S. Although it is not always easy these days!

[Mike,P]

I agree, and it is very sad. One of the reason I go out of my way and will pay a bit more to find something made in Canada or the U.S. Although it is not always easy these days!

I Agree but more often than not companies will outsource and still overcharge.. The $500+ backrest is over the top silly and I'm far from alone in thinking that..

[den1953]

Don't get me wrong as I'm still enthused by the new Spyder F3, just somewhat disappointed with the accessory prices. This goes for all other brands of powersports as well. I guess is just is what it is and we live with/deal with it.

[GeoffCee]

BRP isn't the only player using Asian/Third World suppliers for clothing & accessories. I've bought quite a few Victory clothing items at my dealer and they're all made in China or Vietnam or some other third world source. Harley Davidson is probably the all time king of this type of marketing. Anymore these days it's becoming the way business is done period. Outsourcing has pretty much left much of the USA with tens of thousands of shuttered factories and millions of displaced workers either jobless or working for lower pay. I'll just let it go at that and avoid any kind of arguments.

You'll get no arguments from me! I'm in the UK and for decades now goods manufactured in third world countries have been equal in quality and much lower in price than most of our traditional home-produced items. I long ago ceased to be surprised at the increasing number of items in my home which had a "Made in China" label. For decades China has been single-minded about lifting its billions of people out of a subsistence economy to where it is today, namely the second largest economic power on the planet. It's difficult to give a disparaging "third world" label to a country with a manned space flight program and the ability to successfully land an automated rover/sampler on the moon. The day is fast approaching when "Made in China" will carry with it a certain kudos... Not yet, maybe, but soon. :firstplace::hun:

[Bob Denman]

Geoff...
Good to see that you're back; you've been missed! ;)

[GeoffCee]

Geoff...
Good to see that you're back; you've been missed! ;)

Thanks, Bob, I appreciate that. To be missed by a member of the NRA is a lucky break...

You've used a variety of interesting and amusing avatars over the years. I trust Alfred E Neumann's portrait as a bum doesn't reflect the depleted circumstances of anyone in particular? :yikes:

[Bob Denman]

It's how I feel after I lost my computer... :shocked:

With ALL of my pictures reference materials, jokes, and addresses of my friends! :yikes:

Oh! And all of the office files too! nojoke

[miltonb]

[QUOTE=OJ UK;900815]It depends on why you're buying a trike in the first place. :)

If like me you're a 'dyed in the wool' biker who can no longer safely ride a big bike then a trike is very high on your list of priorities.
On the other hand if buying a trike is merely an addition to your 'toys' then, perhaps, the importance of having one in your garage is somewhat less.

In the UK I can buy a small but well appointed new car for less than what a Spyder costs and it would be cheaper to run and maintain but
I have to own a bike and until I can't swing a over one that's how it will be.

The price of the F3-S over here is a little under $30k (£18,400) and I'm in no way a wealthy person so it represents a HUGE expenditure for me.
I lose around 10% of that figure the moment I start it for the first time (tax+depreciation). I don't have any family though so I only have to worry about
me.

The Spyder is a luxury vehicle and no-one actually needs one any more than anyone needs a Ferrari!
Very few people have one as their sole mode of transport, thus BRP are catering to a niche market and can charge as much as people
are willing to pay and at that point value goes out of the window.
There are really no alternatives. As den1953 said comparing an HD or in fact any converted bike to a Spyder is 'apples and oranges'.[/QUOTE hear, hear him.:agree:

[Kratos]

As long as people buy them, why would they lower the price? And I'm betting most still will buy the accessories even though they don't like the price. And not "liking" the price won't change a thing. It's not buying that does that.

[SAPD911]

my moms high priced 2014 Mercedes S550 has a $400 oil change every 10K. You pay to play! :) apples to oranges, but pretty much the same concept. My mom doesn't need a $130k car just like I don't need a $30K trike.

[bgame]

If you bought only the things you need....... would not have anything you wanted....

[cuznjohn]

first i didn't read all the posts, but i did skim trough them. now i am not a rich man but the way i look at it is, you either want the bike or you don't. BRP has a product that you like, so you shop around for the best price at dealers in your area and pick the best price. you need to spend money for what you want. BUT what i feel BRP does wrong, and it is another way for them to make money, is to not send the bike with what extras you ordered. between the two spyders i ordered i have extra windshields and seats because what i wanted had to be ordered and installed by the dealer. if you order a car it comes with the extras you want but with bikes it's all extra and you end up with extra parts. my dealer installed my extras for free but why not just send it that way.

[Bob Denman]

If you bought only the things you need....... would not have anything you wanted....

:agree: It would be a "Perfectly Adequate" World...


...Leaving all of us wanting a heckuva lot more! :shocked:

[GunDoctor]

When you order a Dell computer you get credit for what comes "stock" on the model and only pay the difference of the upgrade.

[Netminder]

You'll get no arguments from me! I'm in the UK and for decades now goods manufactured in third world countries have been equal in quality and much lower in price than most of our traditional home-produced items. I long ago ceased to be surprised at the increasing number of items in my home which had a "Made in China" label. For decades China has been single-minded about lifting its billions of people out of a subsistence economy to where it is today, namely the second largest economic power on the planet. It's difficult to give a disparaging "third world" label to a country with a manned space flight program and the ability to successfully land an automated rover/sampler on the moon. The day is fast approaching when "Made in China" will carry with it a certain kudos... Not yet, maybe, but soon. :firstplace::hun:
I guess it is easy to do, when you have no labour laws or environmental laws/issues you have to follow! Personally I would still much rather buy something made in the good old USA/Canada!! JMHO.:thumbup:

[Bob Denman]

:agree: :2thumbs:

[doctorlbug]

:agree: :2thumbs:
BRP can sell the added accessories for the F3S at a reasonable price. Take a look at the price for the UFit for the brake and gear shifter, now these are priced correctly, so come on and price the rest of the accessories accordingly.

[den1953]

I priced the accessories necessary to make the new Indian Scout more touring friendly, things like passenger pillion pad, sissybar & passenger backrest. passenger pegs, a windshield and leather saddlebags. The total came to $2299.94 USD. This was for a bike that MSRPs for $11,299 in a red color. Those saddlebags alone were $999.99 so BRP isn't the only one selling accessories for a high price.

[Buggy]

first i didn't read all the posts, but i did skim trough them. now i am not a rich man but the way i look at it is, you either want the bike or you don't. BRP has a product that you like, so you shop around for the best price at dealers in your area and pick the best price. you need to spend money for what you want. BUT what i feel BRP does wrong, and it is another way for them to make money, is to not send the bike with what extras you ordered. between the two spyders i ordered i have extra windshields and seats because what i wanted had to be ordered and installed by the dealer. if you order a car it comes with the extras you want but with bikes it's all extra and you end up with extra parts. my dealer installed my extras for free but why not just send it that way.

I agree whole heartily...but that would cut into their profits big time. I would like them too charge a reasonable fee to upgrade a seat rather then charge full price for a new seat leaving you with original one to get rid of. The dumps are probly filled with oem harley mufflers.

[Pirate looks at --]

I was about to mention prices and "China" but you beat me to it. The margins must be huge using China as a manufacturer.:yikes:

The Can-Am clothing I have is all made in Vietnam Nam

[Bob Denman]

If the quality is there; I don't care where it comes from. :thumbup:

[PrairieSpyder]

Why should they charge less to people who are going to buy a new model anyway? If you want a discount, wait till the end of the model year. The company no doubt sets their pricing so they get a certain return on investment over the first year, knowing that later in the year the prices will be lower. Over the year, the return evens out to their projected business model.

As to the accessories, I agree that they are too expensive, as are HD's stuff. The thing to do is to make a deal for the machine & accessory parts package with your dealer and try to get anything you want at that time. Buying it later will cost a lot more.