NEW UPDATE TO THE NHTSA INVESTIGATION

[oldguyinTX]

Today I had a most interesting and enlightening conversation with Bob Young, the Vehicle Defects Investigator for the Office Of Defects Investigation (ODI). While I am not at liberty to divulge what we discussed, I can tell you that there is much more to this investigation than we realize. I was given permission to provide his contact information, and I would encourage anyone who is affected by this investigation to contact him with specific details of the problems that you are having with your 2013 RT. He does actually answer his phone and Emails. Here is his contact information:

Bob Young

Robert.Young@dot.gov

202-366-4806

Reference PE14025

I would also encourage everyone to print out the 14 page document that Magdave posted on this forum and read it carefully. It was suggested to me to "read between the lines" as it were. NHTSA is VERY serious about this investigation, and it is moving at a rapid pace. Do yourself, and all of us RT owners a favor and contact him. Strength in numbers!

[Magdave]

I have had a lot of contact with Bob but he cautioned on disclosing what they are doing prior to BRP's response Shhhhh:lecturef_smilie: You are correct he is very available and wants any verifiable information from owners sent to him:thumbup:

[Raknid]

Today I had a most interesting and enlightening conversation with Bob Young, the Vehicle Defects Investigator for the Office Of Defects Investigation (ODI). While I am not at liberty to divulge what we discussed, I can tell you that there is much more to this investigation than we realize. I was given permission to provide his contact information, and I would encourage anyone who is affected by this investigation to contact him with specific details of the problems that you are having with your 2013 RT. He does actually answer his phone and Emails. Here is his contact information:

Bob Young

Robert.Young@dot.gov

202-366-4806

Reference PE14025

I would also encourage everyone to print out the 14 page document that Magdave posted on this forum and read it carefully. It was suggested to me to "read between the lines" as it were. NHTSA is VERY serious about this investigation, and it is moving at a rapid pace. Do yourself, and all of us RT owners a favor and contact him. Strength in numbers!

Is he just looking at issues with the 2013 models, or previous as well. We have 2012 and get very strong fuel smells following a ride.

[Magdave]

Is he just looking at issues with the 2013 models, or previous as well. We have 2012 and get very strong fuel smells following a ride.

ALL models RT,RS,GS,and ST :thumbup:

[RBS66]

Thank you very much for the update. I will be contacting him, my 2013 RT has all the problems discussed on the site. I've posted many times about my issues hopefully they will be resolved.

[DaveMcC]

I bought a 2013 ST-LTD and insisted that all issues with heat and gas smells be taken care of by the dealer before delivery. The dealer insisted that he did all that my VIN# called for. So far, I haven't had a heat issue (It's never been over 75 degrees since I bought it). However, gas fumes after a ride have lingered for over 14 hours. At my required service interval, I complained of the gas fumes with the dealer and I was told that the carbon canister is supposed to take care of all the fumes, but they took no action.
It's a design flaw and should be a warranty issue with BRP or as it is happening, it will be a forced recall of all those models. It would seem smart, like GM, to finally own up to the issue and fix it rather than pretending it's only an issue with some models or some drivers.

[Bob Denman]

Glad to hear that he's on our side... :clap: :2thumbs:

[cuznjohn]

Thank you very much for the update. I will be contacting him, my 2013 RT has all the problems discussed on the site. I've posted many times about my issues hopefully they will be resolved.

did you file a case with the nhtsa if not you should

[Jeriatric]

BRP....Shame on you for not listening to all who tried to tell you they loved the concept, and the product but, needed you to actively pursue corrections to all the heat related issues. They pleaded for years, without so much as a peep from you. And now, it comes to this. How unfortunate.

[ekfraz]

I e-mailed him this afternoon and has already been replying back and forth. good man. he is really good at his job.

[hchays]

I agree, if you have an issue with gas fumes and/or heat issues you should contact Bob Young. He is a really nice guy that will answer his phone or call you back and has our best interest in mind. I'm sure he will be more than willing help you with your Spyder issues and questions. But, please keep in mind he can only answer certain questions due to the ongoing investigation.

[oldguyinTX]

I agree, if you have an issue with gas fumes and/or heat issues you should contact Bob Young. He is a really nice guy that will answer his phone or call you back and has our best interest in mind. I'm sure he will be more than willing help you with your Spyder issues and questions. But, please keep in mind he can only answer certain questions due to the ongoing investigation.

Correct, he can only answer certain questions, but if you ask the right questions, he will answer them. He cannot venture to express opinions, not his job. But there is a lot going on with this investigation and I would again encourage folks to read the document that magdave posted very carefully. There is more information there than meets the eye. Contact Bob and express your opinion/grievance, and you just might get more insight as to what NHTSA is doing to address these issues.

[Magdave]

http://www.nhtsa.gov/Research/Defects+Analysis+and+Crashworthiness+Division

[wcricks]

I bought a 2013 ST-LTD and insisted that all issues with heat and gas smells be taken care of by the dealer before delivery. The dealer insisted that he did all that my VIN# called for. So far, I haven't had a heat issue (It's never been over 75 degrees since I bought it). However, gas fumes after a ride have lingered for over 14 hours. At my required service interval, I complained of the gas fumes with the dealer and I was told that the carbon canister is supposed to take care of all the fumes, but they took no action.
It's a design flaw and should be a warranty issue with BRP or as it is happening, it will be a forced recall of all those models. It would seem smart, like GM, to finally own up to the issue and fix it rather than pretending it's only an issue with some models or some drivers.


I recently traded my 2013 because of the heat issues and gas fumes. The dealer is now trying to sell my unit and I feel sorry for the guy who buys it. I spent over $2k trying to fix the issues and it cost me $6700 difference to make the trade. That is a total of $8700 spent to try to get a unit I would enjoy riding past 15 minutes. Granted, the 2014's are nicer but if my 2013 had been comfortable to ride I would have kept it.

Maybe a lawyer might be interested in finding out how many owners of 2013's would be interested in joining in on a lawsuit. I feel like I should be able to recover some of my loss but that is not the incentive. The incentive is to get BRP to acknowlege they have a problem. In my case I hope they will fix my unit for the next buyer who will soon experience the same regrets the rest of us had once we realized what we purchased.

[oldguyinTX]

http://www.nhtsa.gov/Research/Defects+Analysis+and+Crashworthiness+Division

You are getting close. Dig a little deeper.

[ThreeWheels]

I'm all in favor of having the problems fixed.
Anybody who knows me can tell I've got a bug up my butt about the poor windshield arm on the RT.
Having said that, I hope we don't make so much noise that the Spyders go the way of the Corvair.

[hchays]

I'm all in favor of having the problems fixed.
Anybody who knows me can tell I've got a bug up my butt about the poor windshield arm on the RT.
Having said that, I hope we don't make so much noise that the Spyders go the way of the Corvair.

I wouldn't want Spyders to go away, but on the other hand if they can't make them safe then they should make them. There's always another manufacturer out there that would be happy to accept our money.

[oldguyinTX]

I recently traded my 2013 because of the heat issues and gas fumes. The dealer is now trying to sell my unit and I feel sorry for the guy who buys it. I spent over $2k trying to fix the issues and it cost me $6700 difference to make the trade. That is a total of $8700 spent to try to get a unit I would enjoy riding past 15 minutes. Granted, the 2014's are nicer but if my 2013 had been comfortable to ride I would have kept it.

Maybe a lawyer might be interested in finding out how many owners of 2013's would be interested in joining in on a lawsuit. I feel like I should be able to recover some of my loss but that is not the incentive. The incentive is to get BRP to acknowlege they have a problem. In my case I hope they will fix my unit for the next buyer who will soon experience the same regrets the rest of us had once we realized what we purchased.

I have to say that I am surprised that your dealer took your 2013 in trade. They have to know that only a total moron would fork up the big bucks to buy it. If I were you, I would consider myself lucky to be down only $8,700.00 If I tried to dump mine, I would have to take about an 11K loss.

[MidTNDawg]

I'm all in favor of having the problems fixed.
Anybody who knows me can tell I've got a bug up my butt about the poor windshield arm on the RT.
Having said that, I hope we don't make so much noise that the Spyders go the way of the Corvair.

I am concerned about this.

[oldguyinTX]

I am concerned about this.

I think that we are all concerned about this. Keep in mind that NHTSA actively keeps an eye on this forum, and they are moving very quickly to hold BRP accountable. What the final solution will be, no one knows right now, but based on my conversation with Bob Young today, my take on this is that NHTSA is going to hold BRP's feet to the fire on this "explosive" issue. Please call or Email him with your complaints/issues. They really do want to hear from owners who have these problems. It gives them more ammunition to go after BRP & force them to be proactive, not selective in how they will address this. Making deals on an individual basis is only going to hurt BRP in the long run once everything is fully disclosed, and based on my conversation with Bob Young today, it will be.

[Seadog1]

There is enough info out there to steer any one away from a 2013 model.

[DrewNJ]

The "brp fix" for the 13' RT will likely be a cordless drill, a hole saw, and a few dozen holes in a bunch of the body panels and trunk.....good luck with that.

[PMK]

The "brp fix" for the 13' RT will likely be a cordless drill, a hole saw, and a few dozen holes in a bunch of the body panels and trunk.....good luck with that.

Been wondering for a while, and I agree there may be tuning issues also. Someone mentioned the exhaust pipes are a double wall design. No doubt to try and keep direct true exhaust pipe heat from radiating.

Is it viable to modify the insulating chamber by venting it. Envision, adding a welded fitting near the head pipe and a second fitting near the opposite end and forcing cooler air along the exhaust pipes insulating chamber. High temp silicone hose could be plumbed to a small fan with a manifold to split the airflow into two paths, one for each pipe assembly. This could be run constantly or set to trigger the fan at a given underbody temp.

Just an idea I have not had before and thought I would share.

PK

[Bob Denman]

There is enough info out there to steer any one away from a 2013 model.
There might be...
If folks actually did some research, before they got excited over BIG savings, and started writing checks. :banghead:

[2RTsGV]

There is enough info out there to steer any one away from a 2013 model.

I somewhat agree with you, however 1st time buyers (myself included) have limited or no knowledge of existing forum groups and when I bought my 2013 (new) there were no signs saying to steer clear of the 2013 Spyder nor did the dealer tell me that the year model had heat issues.

[jcthorne]

Been wondering for a while, and I agree there may be tuning issues also. Someone mentioned the exhaust pipes are a double wall design. No doubt to try and keep direct true exhaust pipe heat from radiating.

Is it viable to modify the insulating chamber by venting it. Envision, adding a welded fitting near the head pipe and a second fitting near the opposite and forcing cooler air along the exhaust pipes insulating chamber. High temp silicone hose could be plumbed to a small fan with a manifold to split the airflow into two paths, one for each pipe assembly. This could be run constantly or set to trigger the fan at a given underbody temp.

Just an idea I have not head before and thought I would share.

PK


Close but more likely water cooled like on boats. Its actually not that large of a heat load just to keep the pipes cool. Most of the heat still goes out the exhaust. A water jacketed manifold could solve this but I bet the existing radiator is not large enough for the additional capacity.

[DrewNJ]

Water cooling the exhaust opens up a whole different can of worms. There is more to it than what most would believe. Your really looking at a total redesign of the system to go to a water cooled exhaust.

[JkRbbt]

I really don't see the Spyder concept "going away" no matter what the outcome of the heat issue for 2013 and previous model years. Seems BRP got a grip on it with the redesign of the frame/motor/exhaust for 2014. And the 21015 F-3? Well, that is a whole new baby and I doubt that is going away. With that said, I, as others, lost a bunch o' $$$ when I traded my 2013 RTL for a 2014 RTS just to get rid of the fumes in the garage. The only "savings" I incurred was to NOT drill holes, coat the exhaust, get a new air cleaner..., etc, etc. BRP screwed up the design and I am just thankful I didn't have a fire in my ATTACHED garage, :yikes:, and thankful my dealer gave me a "reasonable" deal on my trade. I am happy, now, with my 2014 Spyder, but confidence in BRP is not high!

[Magdave]

Just a word from the investigator. Although he is glad to receive emails you MUST go to the NHTSA website to file a complaint not by email to him.:thumbup:

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Owners

[PMK]

Close but more likely water cooled like on boats. Its actually not that large of a heat load just to keep the pipes cool. Most of the heat still goes out the exhaust. A water jacketed manifold could solve this but I bet the existing radiator is not large enough for the additional capacity.

I too considered water or liquid cooling, but as mentioned in the next post, it could entail some serious redesign in other components such as radiator and plumbing. Forced air would not better for cooling over liquid cooling, but does remain simple. Just an idea, not something carved on stone and carried down a mountain.

PK

[PrairieSpyder]

I'm glad they are doing a thorough investigation and I hope there will be some real solutions for the problems. I don't know what sort of quality management processes BRP uses but they surely know they have a problem. I worked in a corporation that was committed to world-class quality management, and I'm always surprised when I see other companies fall short. It's so much cheaper to have quality control on the front end than on the back-end after customers are affected. Maybe they'll learn that lesson soon.

[jcthorne]

Water cooling the exhaust opens up a whole different can of worms. There is more to it than what most would believe. Your really looking at a total redesign of the system to go to a water cooled exhaust.


Yeah, your right. The more I thought about it and trying to figure out if I could do something like that the harder it became. Forget the idea. But the forced air idea still has merit.

[CruiseRT]

Just a word from the investigator. Although he is glad to receive emails you MUST go to the NHTSA website to file a complaint not by email to him.:thumbup:

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Owners

Filed complaint and sent investigator all the infomation I have collected.

[Orange Spyder Man]

I wouldn't want Spyders to go away, but on the other hand if they can't make them safe then they should make them. There's always another manufacturer out there that would be happy to accept our money.

I agree 100%

OSM

[Magdave]

Filed complaint and sent investigator all the infomation I have collected.

:thumbup:

[obiwan57]

Thank you for the great information! I have just sent my BRP case number and an email to BRP to Mr. Young, along with my local dealer's response. The technician had not heard anything about a heat abatement effort by BRP, by the way. I dealing with a Purge Valve and Evap Canister issue along with the heat, as well as a possible ECM problem. The Spyder's still under BRP warranty.

[obiwan57]

There might be...
If folks actually did some research, before they got excited over BIG savings, and started writing checks. :banghead:



You are SOOO right! I would've definitely waited and got a 2014!!! :banghead:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Been wondering for a while, and I agree there may be tuning issues also. Someone mentioned the exhaust pipes are a double wall design. No doubt to try and keep direct true exhaust pipe heat from radiating.

Is it viable to modify the insulating chamber by venting it. Envision, adding a welded fitting near the head pipe and a second fitting near the opposite end and forcing cooler air along the exhaust pipes insulating chamber. High temp silicone hose could be plumbed to a small fan with a manifold to split the airflow into two paths, one for each pipe assembly. This could be run constantly or set to trigger the fan at a given underbody temp.

Just an idea I have not had before and thought I would share.

PK​......Paul , I'm certainly no Expert in this area . But I have heard that " THERMAL CERAMIC COATING " the inside and outside of the exhaust pipes can have a dramatic effect in lowering the Temp of the pipes on the outside !!!!...................or is this just B.S., ........if not I think it's relatively simple and certainly more cost effective than anything involving Water or Air jackets on the pipes .................JMHO//////Mike :thumbup:

[PMK]

​......Paul , I'm certainly no Expert in this area . But I have heard that " THERMAL CERAMIC COATING " the inside and outside of the exhaust pipes can have a dramatic effect in lowering the Temp of the pipes on the outside !!!!...................or is this just B.S., ........if not I think it's relatively simple and certainly more cost effective than anything involving Water or Air jackets on the pipes .................JMHO//////Mike :thumbup:

Mike, I have experience with coating inside and exterior surface of single walled exhaust tubes on aircraft. In my opinion it certainly works.

I have also had discussion with others about how the engine is tuned, and it too is not a good setup.

Overall engines and exhaust make heat. We have no references of exhaust gas temps that I am aware of.

There are people that use air fuel ratio gauge setups and have richened mixtures lowering EGT and in general cooling the combustion process while no doubt adding longevity to the engine.

Is it possible that the heat issue is really a series of errors added up to see these high temps?

A lean engine program, inadequate or borderline heat protection of underbody components, poor airflow paths to remove heat that accumulates under the exterior body panels, and the often mentioned EVAP systems and carbon catch can plus the valve and controls. Difficult to say, but at this point, not much BRP has tested is working for them.

Possibly it is time for BRP to purchase an Aprillia and see how it compares in the engine management settings, or if possible see if this data can be shared by Rotax to BRP.

PK

[jcthorne]

Rotax is part of BRP. They have the data unless Aprilla uses their own engine management system after purchasing the engine. But even then, very different intended purposes and tuning.

It does seem like a lot of small error or decisions that have added up against BRP here. Each on its own would not likely have caused all these problems. Its not a simple fix like drilling some holes. BRP is going to be forced to spend some money to fix or buy back.

[PMK]

Rotax is part of BRP. They have the data unless Aprilla uses their own engine management system after purchasing the engine. But even then, very different intended purposes and tuning.

It does seem like a lot of small error or decisions that have added up against BRP here. Each on its own would not likely have caused all these problems. Its not a simple fix like drilling some holes. BRP is going to be forced to spend some money to fix or buy back.

Agree 100% that Rotax is part of BRP, partially why I suggested this route. Granted the Aprillia is a different machine, but one would suspect that engine parameters for items such as Air Fuel Ratios, EGT if available, engine basics such as timing fuel injection durations and so forth could be compared. Essentially, ensuring the engine is running properly, or better than currently and see if a drop in temps follows.

Has anyone been asked to test with modified exterior body panels? Granted it is not a practical fix, but do something that makes a drastic change to help find a course to rectify the issue.

Illegal or not, they should also get a means to be exempt from testing a machine with the converter removed.

PK

[Magdave]

Agree 100% that Rotax is part of BRP, partially why I suggested this route. Granted the Aprillia is a different machine, but one would suspect that engine parameters for items such as Air Fuel Ratios, EGT if available, engine basics such as timing fuel injection durations and so forth could be compared. Essentially, ensuring the engine is running properly, or better than currently and see if a drop in temps follows.

Has anyone been asked to test with modified exterior body panels? Granted it is not a practical fix, but do something that makes a drastic change to help find a course to rectify the issue.

Illegal or not, they should also get a means to be exempt from testing a machine with the converter removed.

PK

Seriously it is not that hard to put a Cat shield over the cat. Every auto has one guess why? EXCESSIVE heat rising off of it. :dontknow: They are a heck of a lot smaller too which is why I already asked why not replace it with a bullet CAT?

[Jeriatric]

Never wanted to cry to a government agency about the problems we've encountered with the spyder. Always felt BRP could be convinced of the realness of said problems. I was wrong! So, this morning we did what they forced us to do. Cried to a goverment agency. To say I'm disappointed in having to do so, would be an understatement.

[PMK]

Seriously it is not that hard to put a Cat shield over the cat. Every auto has one guess why? EXCESSIVE heat rising off of it. :dontknow: They are a heck of a lot smaller too which is why I already asked why not replace it with a bullet CAT?

My suggestion was not for a permanent fix, but rather to see some form of a change, with minimal effort. Pull the cat, install a bypass pipe and evaluate. If it works, as others have said it does, then research hand fab'd prototype heat shields. Thing is, heat shield as is or modified, the heat is still under the bodywork and needs to go somewhere.

Even our 14 RTs was tough on the passengers feet with heat radiating out when stopped in traffic. Not boiling fuel or any of that, but the rear admiral mentioned it. Her request was granted and the heat issue is no longer a problem for her.

PK

[Bob Denman]

Filed complaint and sent investigator all the infomation I have collected.

And I have to compliment you, on your choice in Avatars... :clap::2thumbs:

[Hecam17]

FYI- If you filed a Safety Defect claim with NHTSA and got and ODI claim number, you should refile and get a VOQ number. I did & I will.

[Magdave]

FYI- If you filed a Safety Defect claim with NHTSA and got and ODI claim number, you should refile and get a VOQ number. I did & I will.

Explain the procedure please?:dontknow:

[sduskin]

I recently traded my 2013 because of the heat issues and gas fumes. The dealer is now trying to sell my unit and I feel sorry for the guy who buys it. I spent over $2k trying to fix the issues and it cost me $6700 difference to make the trade. That is a total of $8700 spent to try to get a unit I would enjoy riding past 15 minutes. Granted, the 2014's are nicer but if my 2013 had been comfortable to ride I would have kept it.

Maybe a lawyer might be interested in finding out how many owners of 2013's would be interested in joining in on a lawsuit. I feel like I should be able to recover some of my loss but that is not the incentive. The incentive is to get BRP to acknowlege they have a problem. In my case I hope they will fix my unit for the next buyer who will soon experience the same regrets the rest of us had once we realized what we purchased.

First one for my wife was a 2013 ST-S. It had heat issues from day 1. She would pull over from longer rides or get off after shorter rides saying "my zipper is melting!!". Figuratively, not literally. :) After a month, I was ready to pull the trigger on a complete set of panel replacements when the ST's lack of storage and lack of a 6th gear came into play. To make a long story short, we took it in the "checkbook" to the tune of about $5000 to trade up to a 2014 RT-S. She could not be happier now!

The heat problem was far and away the greatest reason for the trade. The other lacks were the tipping points.

[M109Dreamer]

FYI- If you filed a Safety Defect claim with NHTSA and got and ODI claim number, you should refile and get a VOQ number. I did & I will.


Explain the procedure please?:dontknow:
Yes please explain.....
When you file it gives you the ODI number. But it never mentions a future action on the owners part. Whats the difference in the 2?

[finless]

The "brp fix" for the 13' RT will likely be a cordless drill, a hole saw, and a few dozen holes in a bunch of the body panels and trunk.....good luck with that.

I am going to have to agree with you that the fix will be the cheapest thing possible for BRP to do. They are a company with investors and a bottom line!

However, I also hope that whatever they come up with is approved and tested to be a correct fix by the NHTSA.
As many have said before, this issue all comes down to keeping the gas from boiling in the tank! So whatever the fix is, it has to achieve that.

Bob

[ThreeWheels]

If I recall correctly, others who have installed the K&N air filter have noticed a decrease in body heat.
The K&N is so much smaller than the factory BIGA$$ HONKIN air box that it allows more air flow through the body cavity.
Am I mistaken ?

[Magdave]

I am going to have to agree with you that the fix will be the cheapest thing possible for BRP to do. They are a company with investors and a bottom line!

However, I also hope that whatever they come up with is approved and tested to be a correct fix by the NHTSA.
As many have said before, this issue all comes down to keeping the gas from boiling in the tank! So whatever the fix is, it has to achieve that.

Bob

NHTSA is testing there butts off as we speak.....:thumbup:

[finless]

NHTSA is testing there butts off as we speak.....:thumbup:

How can they be testing a fix if it doesn't exist yet?

What your saying is they are testing bikes to prove there is a problem correct?

Bob

[adlereins]

You are getting close. Dig a little deeper.

I dug a little deeper and as a result, filed a formal complaint. Mine is a 2012 Rt that has the gasoline fumes problem on occasion but probably not as bad as the 2013's. That being said, gasoline fumes are a no no as it only takes one spark at the wrong time and place.

Take Care
Allen B. aka adlereins

[Hecam17]

FYI- If you filed a Safety Defect claim with NHTSA and got and ODI claim number, you should refile and get a VOQ number. I did & I will.

Sorry-
Earlier today I was told they are not the same and file a VOQ (Vehicle Owner Questionnaire).
In the last half hour I was told they are the same and my ODI (Office of Defects Investigation) is part of the 109 claims.

[Magdave]

How can they be testing a fix if it doesn't exist yet?

What your saying is they are testing bikes to prove there is a problem correct?

Bob

They know about the Heat dissipation experiment too but yes they are testing not only stock bikes but if you read the letter you will see references to an owner who worked with BRP getting his bike "fixed" and asked a lot of questions about that specific bike. They are very well informed about everything that has gone on and most concerned with fires after BRP's 2013 recall. The truth is out there

http://www.inigo.com/images/xfiles/xf-101.gif

[finless]

They know about the Heat dissipation experiment too but yes they are testing not only stock bikes but if you read the letter you will see references to an owner who worked with BRP getting his bike "fixed" and asked a lot of questions about that specific bike. They are very well informed about everything that has gone on and most concerned with fires after BRP's 2013 recall. The truth is out there



Interesting.....

Also a thought on the fix. Why does the Spyder have a cat when a lot of other motorcycles don't?

Is it some requirement? Maybe Ca and other states? If so again, other MC's don't have a cat....

So maybe part of the fix is removing the cat and changing the airbox followed by a BUDS retune?
Just speculating....

Bob

[cuznjohn]

when he called me, bob, he thought i still had my 13 rt but we talked a lil and he was at my dealer meeting people and taking readings and complaints so they are working on it

[jcthorne]

If I recall correctly, others who have installed the K&N air filter have noticed a decrease in body heat.
The K&N is so much smaller than the factory BIGA$$ HONKIN air box that it allows more air flow through the body cavity.
Am I mistaken ?


Not K&N, JT's Air Cleaner.

K&N makes a replacement panel that fits in the factory air box. Not recommended.

JT's Machine makes a replacement air cleaner assembly that does indeed allow much more air flow. Highly recommended. It also uses a replaceable synthetic element filter, NOT a K&N oiled gauze filter.

[finless]

Not K&N, JT's Air Cleaner.

K&N makes a replacement panel that fits in the factory air box. Not recommended.

JT's Machine makes a replacement air cleaner assembly that does indeed allow much more air flow. Highly recommended. It also uses a replaceable synthetic element filter, NOT a K&N oiled gauze filter.

Yes but I worry about the increased noise.... One day I have to hear Jerbear's ride so I can see the difference and the trade off. I am not into loud rides.

Bob

[DrewNJ]

Nothing like letting a hot motor suck in its own hot air...

[Gray Ghost]

Interesting.....

Also a thought on the fix. Why does the Spyder have a cat when a lot of other motorcycles don't?

Is it some requirement? Maybe Ca and other states? If so again, other MC's don't have a cat....

So maybe part of the fix is removing the cat and changing the airbox followed by a BUDS retune?
Just speculating....

Bob

Can you name a modern fuel injected bike that doesn't have a cat? Motorcycles are also required to comply with emissions control laws and none of the brands I have dealt with are exempt from using cats.

[Jim's_Spyder]

No heat problem on mine. :shocked: 69 degrees outside 5 bars on the temp gauge and a comfy 145.8 degrees in the right foot well:yikes:. Right in that area that was the hottest spot, It average 120-130 degrees in that area. The radiator was at 175 degrees when I pulled in the shop and went up to 187 after it idled a few minutes. 9777097774

[crazyspyder]

Can you name a modern fuel injected bike that doesn't have a cat? Motorcycles are also required to comply with emissions control laws and none of the brands I have dealt with are exempt from using cats.

Honda, Harley, to name a few. had both bought new at dealer with no cats. Texas doesn't enforce it or endorse it- that goes for loudness as well. can anyone enlighten me on how to file with NHTSA- questionair aks for dates and ties of accidents and don't
know how to respond too heat, gas smell, and lean conditions? also lemon law- states that you have a certain time after purchase
to file. none after that time has passed. anybody knows any facts on the lemon law?:dontknow:

[DrewNJ]

New Harleys have cats....

[PMK]

Cats or no cats, that is really up to BRP and the EPA.

As far as the heat issue, the group here has shown favorable results removing the cat, and its associated heat, by installing a bypass pipe.

I am not saying that this is the answer, and it may even be illegal for BRP to go there.

BRP simply needs to find the source of the heat, be it insulated exhaust, a redesigned exhaust that runs similar to the 2014 RT series, maybe a retune of the engine, comparison to the Aprillia engine maps. Who knows, but they should be working at it and the owners of these machines should stay focused and organized. Those with no issues, that's good, but tomorrow may be a different day with troubles.

PK

[oldguyinTX]

Connecticut does not do emissions testing on motorcycles. I believe that BRP makes them all C. A. R. B. compliant.

[PMK]

New Harleys have cats....

The lady across the street has cats...

[M109Dreamer]

Honda, Harley, to name a few. had both bought new at dealer with no cats. Texas doesn't enforce it or endorse it- that goes for loudness as well. can anyone enlighten me on how to file with NHTSA- questionair aks for dates and ties of accidents and don't
know how to respond too heat, gas smell, and lean conditions? also lemon law- states that you have a certain time after purchase
to file. none after that time has passed. anybody knows any facts on the lemon law?:dontknow:
When I filed ours for the heat and gas, I think your referring to the catagory on the website correct? Has a drop down arrow but nothing seems to drop down when you click on it?

Had same issue. In the window just type "fuel" in it and it will then populate and then you will scroll up and down for the other catagories. They let you select more than one functional area so i had fuel and engine for topics in regards to the heat and fuel smell.

In the description window, I listed both issues in the window. Hope this helps.

[kyspyder]

Look to the left, I have cats, too!


KYSPYDER

[bscrive]

Yes but I worry about the increased noise.... One day I have to hear Jerbear's ride so I can see the difference and the trade off. I am not into loud rides.

Bob

With JT's pre-filter the sound goes back to what it would be with the original air box. We put it on my wife's STL.

[DrewNJ]

The lady across the street has cats...
Tastes like chicken....(the cats, not the lady across the street....lol)

[finless]

With JT's pre-filter the sound goes back to what it would be with the original air box. We put it on my wife's STL.

Pre-filter? I guess I had not seen that on his sight. I will take a look.

Bob

[jaherbst]

I somewhat agree with you, however 1st time buyers (myself included) have limited or no knowledge of existing forum groups and when I bought my 2013 (new) there were no signs saying to steer clear of the 2013 Spyder nor did the dealer tell me that the year model had heat issues.

Therein lies the problem, lack of false advertising or failure to disclose the negative!:D

I was a first time buyer with no Spyder knowledge and thought I got a "whopper of a deal" in 2013. I got a whopper but no deal.

Recently returned from the Hill Country ride. Every time a stop was made it smelled like a gasoline refinery. It had to be all Spyders prior to 2014. I just gave up and shelled out $11,400 OTD trading my 2013 (bomb on three wheels) RT-S for a 2014 RT-L. Not happy with having to do this but with health and safety in mind I felt my choices were few.

After testing the last effort by BRP for heat dissipation and feeling none if any change took place it made up my mind to trade for a 2014 which I am very happy with. But of course BRP wants you to do this. I have solved the problems with my money not theirs. Dealer will sell this 2013 to another unsuspecting soul with no knowledge of the problem.

I do not feel this problem will be solved any time soon if at all with out a major redo of the 2013 and prior year Spyders. Brp is not going to spend the money. It is always cheaper to pay a negotiated fine than to fix things in arrears.

Jack

[Bob Denman]

I was a first time buyer with no Spyder knowledge and thought I got a "whopper of a deal" in 2013. I got a whopper but no deal. Every time a stop was made it smelled like a gasoline refinery. It had to be all Spyders prior to 2014.

Sorry, Jack...
My 2010 RT never showed even the slightest HINT of any problem with overheating, or gas fumes. nojoke
I'd stick my hand down in the outlet for the radiator airflow, and it was never more than lukewarm. :thumbup:
The Missus could feel some heat on her right foot; but it was never anything more, than what you'd expect while sitting on top of an engine.

[DrewNJ]

Everyone with problems want so very much to believe that all of us have problems.....but its just not like that.

[crazyspyder]

I want to believe...:roflblack::roflblack: .
who put the cat back in the bag!:gaah:..?
. thanks Arizona your info was spot on.:thumbup:

[Gray Ghost]

Honda, Harley, to name a few. ...

I don't know for sure about Honda, but I have been through factory training on HD, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki. All their recent street models with fuel injection have catalytic converters. And I would bet a steak dinner that the same holds true for Honda.

[Pennyrick]

I was a first time buyer with no Spyder knowledge and thought I got a "whopper of a deal" in 2013. I got a whopper but no deal.

Recently returned from the Hill Country ride. Every time a stop was made it smelled like a gasoline refinery. It had to be all Spyders prior to 2014.
Jack

No, it isn't!!!


Put 16,000 miles on a 2010 RT SE..... no gasoline smell or overheating noticed in the time we owned.
Put 14,000 miles on a 2011 RT SM.... no gasoline smell or overheating noticed in the time we owned.
Put 18,000 miles on a 2012 RT ltd ... no gasoline smell or overheating noticed since we have owned.
Put 26,000 miles on a 2012 RT ltd.... no gasoline smell or overheating noticed since we have owned.

[M109Dreamer]

I want to believe...:roflblack::roflblack: .
who put the cat back in the bag!:gaah:..?
. thanks Arizona your info was spot on.[emoji106]
[emoji106]

[jerpinoy]

I just hope BRP will fix all problems.

[DrewNJ]

I don't know for sure about Honda, but I have been through factory training on HD, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki. All their recent street models with fuel injection have catalytic converters. And I would bet a steak dinner that the same holds true for Honda.
I like steak!

[crazyspyder]

I don't know for sure about Honda, but I have been through factory training on HD, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki. All their recent street models with fuel injection have catalytic converters. And I would bet a steak dinner that the same holds true for Honda.

:dontknow: not saying your wrong, Im saying I bought 3 new harleys from the dealer that had no catalyc converters and 1 new honda magna . they all had fuel injections. maybe someone was sleeping on the job and forgot to put them on (2008-10) :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

[DrewNJ]

They have become pretty main stream recently and over the last few years have made their way to all Harleys.

[Lamonster]

If you're going to start talking about lawsuits you need to take this conversation somewhere else. This thread is closed.