sledmaster
10-06-2014, 02:52 PM
I just got back from riding the F3 up in Quebec for a couple of half-days. Here is what I learned. I have previously shared bits and pieces of this content in previous posts, but have wrapped it all into one cohesive presentation. Or, at least I tried!
For those who do not know me, I am a professional snowmobile test rider. I have been doing independent performance evaluations on all brands of snowmobiles for over 30 years. With this background, I was brought in on some of the original Spyder P0 & P1 prototype testing back in 2001, and again in 2005 on P3 prototypes. I was also able to perform pre-production evaluations in January of 2007. I currently own a 2008 GS and a 2013 ST-S and have purchased three Spyders with my own money out of my own pocket. To date I have logged over 80,000 miles on Spyders.
96448
When the first spy photos of the 2015 Can-Am Spyder F3 leaked, I admit I was not all that impressed. Up to that point I had no knowledge of this new model. I really didn’t think much of the new look or seating position, as I am NOT a cruiser guy. Being a snowmobiler, I far prefer the riding position of the ST-S. Or, at least that was what I thought.
The private event I attended occurred September 29-30, Monday & Tuesday. We rode for half a day on each of the days and put on a total of about 400 km (250 miles). We had a full presentation from the Spyder marketing and design teams. We also toured the BRP Design Studio, Ski-Doo/Spyder assembly lines and visited the J. Armand Bombardier Museum. There were 21 media guys there from all over the planet, mostly motorcycle but also some automotive and lifestyle editors. Most of the bike guys were from So Cal and they had little Spyder experience going into this. They really came away with a new appreciation of what BRP was up to. Most of them got it, in that they understand this is the first Spyder that will be taken seriously by a growing number of motorcycle enthusiasts. Some of them really liked it, especially the 1330 ACE engine, but they really were surprised by the image the F3 projected, along with the new feel and the handling response. Let's just say we now have more of their attention and respect.
96449
I was the only off-road/snowmobile/Spyder guy out of this bunch, and I believe I was the only one there that actually owns a couple of Spyders and for sure the only one with over 80,000 miles on them. I did my best to infect them with my Spyder enthusiasm and help them understand the benefits of the platform. Since they had little Spyder experience to draw from I did my best to help them fill in the blanks.
Going back to the original 2008 GS model, we have to remember that BRP was a company that knew snowmobiles, ATVs and watercraft. They started out building Spyder models based on what they knew and what they were good at. They looked like a blend of snowmobile and watercraft styling and elements, but with wheels. In the past seven years of selling Spyders, BRP has watched and listened to what Spyder owners were doing with the rides, but also to the reasons why other motorcyclists were not buying one.
In the motorcycle market, there are four main segments, or model styles; we have the Sport (RS), Sport Touring (ST), Touring (RT) and now Cruiser (F3). With the addition of the F3 models, Spyders now cover all of these model segments. They all represent different riding positions from one end to the other, from far forward (RS) to less forward (ST) to neutral (RT) to laid back cruiser (F3).
That said, their first Spyder three models (RS, ST & RT) really only targeted 1/3 of the total motorcycle market. The Sport, Sport-Touring and Touring segments only account for 34% of the total motorcycle market here in the U.S. Of those first three models, the RT was by far the most successful. 1/3 of the Touring bikes sold are now Spyder RTs, but Touring bikes are only 7% of the total market.
Which brings us to the real reason Can-Am is building the F3; the Cruiser segment is 66% of the U.S. market. The three existing Spyder models were not appealing to 2/3 of the motorcycle market, thus a huge opportunity was being missed. Now with the F3, the market appeal of Spyder is going to be three times what it was (and this could be why it is called the F3).
In analyzing why the other motorcycle enthusiasts were not buying a Spyder, it was primarily because of the riding position and the styling. Riders also told BRP the previous Spyder models did not fit their personality, and they didn’t like the handling characteristics. Motorcycle riders told BRP they wanted a more relaxed riding position with their feet out in front of them. They told them they wanted styling that was bold and muscular and didn’t look like a snowmobile or watercraft. They wanted to see the engine and the frame and the mechanicals. Riders wanted more comfort, and wanted to get it regardless of their height.
96451
This is where the F3 shines, in its ability to comfortably fit riders from short to tall with the handlebar options and footrest positioning. This feature alone is brilliant. 90% of the riders (from the 5th percentile female to the 95th percentile male) can be fit perfectly with the uFit system of adjustable foot peg positioning and optional handlebars. You plug in your height, and the foot peg position is calculated as it the handlebar type (four accessory bars in addition to the stock bars). I stand 6’ 4” and with the long reach bars and foot pegs set at #5 the F3 was dead-nuts perfect. And I mean perfect.
Those of us who own and ride a Spyder might look at the F3 and say, “No big deal, it is a Spyder with a different seating position, that’s not for me. It’s not that different.” This is exactly what I thought going into this, very strongly in fact. I actually didn’t want to like it. But when you ride the F3, it doesn’t take very long for you to realize there is more to it than just sitting in a different position. How you hang onto the bike changes, and how your body counters the lateral G-forces of going around a corner changes. Even if you are not a cruiser rider, you need to take an F3 for a ride because of the benefits that are afforded by this new riding position.
96453
The single biggest difference with how the F3 feels and acts when you ride is due to where the rider is positioned on the chassis. Instead of sitting up on top of the gas tank, the gas tank is now in front of you; the rider is sitting lower and further back on the chassis - you now sit 5.5” further back and 3.5” lower, with your feet about 12” further ahead.
This does several things. You now are put into a cruiser bike riding position, which is what many motorcycle riders have been asking for. But the main benefit is how you hang onto the bike, especially when cornering. Instead of having to hang on with your arms, you are now locked into the bucket seat with your feet and legs. This means the cornering G-forces are being countered far more with your legs than your arms. Instead of having to hang on with your arms AND use them for steering, you can pretty much hang on with your legs which frees up your arms for just steering. This is a profound difference in that it makes the riding experience much easier and less fatiguing. It doesn’t feel like you are going to fall off of the Spyder going around a corner. You are locked in with your feet pushing you back into the cupped saddle. It still helps to lean into the corners, but the overall experience is markedly different, more pleasurable, and easier.
96454
The new frame design (with the two added spars on both sides) is 40% stiffer, and this added torsional rigidity means a more responsive platform from which to tune the suspensions. This, along with the rider’s lower center of gravity means the F3 corners flatter. There is also less body roll and lane wandering. It is easier to corner, not as twitchy, and better follows your intended lines. As you ride it the thought occurs that this is the way a Spyder is supposed to feel, far more intuitive and natural.
I can not emphasize enough the difference in handling afforded by these changes. The F3 is easy to ride, very comfortable, and is very confident to ride hard around corners. I would have sworn that this riding position would be a detriment to the handling capability of the vehicle, but with your weight carried further back and lower the Spyder F3 is really settled.
Then there is the engine. Anyone who has ridden a 2014 RT with the 1330 ACE engine knows how good this engine is, and while many of us are not Touring bike riders and do not want the styling, features or image of the RT, we do want the 1330 engine. Since the 1330 is not offered in an RS or ST package, the F3 is the only option for those who want the 1330 engine but not the feature package, weight and image of the of the RT.
Being 160 pounds lighter than an RT with the same 1330 engine and the lower final gearing, the performance of the F3 is quite impressive as it will pull 0-60 mph in 4.8 seconds (BRP supplied numbers). It is far more lively and sportier than the RT with the same engine, as it should be. The F3 is geared slightly lower with a 4-tooth larger rear sprocket (requiring the drive belt to be 2" longer). The machine seems to run at 500 RPM higher for a given road speed and gear selection. It squaks the rear tire much easier, allowing a more aggressive drive-away characteristic if you so choose. You can actually squak the rear tire with most any and every gear shift. With the super broad torque band of the 1330, the exact shift points are really a moot point compared to a 990/991. It sounds throaty and deeper, it pulls hard and stretches your arms.
The VSS stability system has also been re-calibrated and it will now let you get away with more fun than before, as it will apply the brakes slightly before cutting the throttle. This is very enjoyable and noticeable as you start to push the vehicle to its limits. I could run the F3 really hard into a corner, one that would have got the nanny to kick in on my GS or ST-S. You can actually get the back end to break loose slightly and the outside front tire brake will be applied before the throttle is cut, which is really fun as well. Yes, I would like the nanny to loosen up even more, but at least we have made progress. Let’s just say you can get away with far more than before, and it is noticeable.
BRP is in business to sell machines, and the F3 is going to expand their footprint. That said, BRP doesn’t look at this as current Spyder owners buying an F3 instead of what we own right now, that misses the point; the F3 is aimed at riders of cruiser bikes who currently do not own a Spyder. Sure, some of us will cross over, but we are a very small number compared to the 66% of the cycle market that is being targeted. We will compare the F3 to the Spyders we currently own and ride; the rest of the world will compare the F3 to the Cruiser bike they currently own and ride. Even if not a single current Spyder owner buys one, the F3 will still be a success. Five years from now we will look back at this moment and realize the significance of the F3 introduction and how it really put the Spyder on the map when it comes to true motorcycle market acceptance. That is my prediction, and history will be the judge.
I would also expect all of our current segments to continue to exist, the RS, ST, RT and now the F3. If anything it seems likely for them to next come with a smaller, lighter, lower powered machine with a lower price point. But, you will probably see all of our four segments represented from this point forward. The F3 should not takeaway many from the RT crowd, but it is expected to take away from the RS and ST riders simply due to the price point and the engine offering. And once you ride one and see how it feels and handles, the riding position becomes far more of an asset, even if you are not a cruiser rider.
My single biggest complain would be the small trunk up front, only about 1/2 the size as before. Side-mounted radiators/coolers ate up much of the space, so the room left over was much smaller. Past that there was little to find fault with. Maybe the gauge, it is pretty much the same gauge package as on a 2008 model, but it is familiar and functional. I for one still like analog and digital displays working together. The wind protection from the wide body is also way better than you would expect.
Again, I am NOT a cruiser rider, never have been, but have to admit the F3 works FAR better than even I expected. I know this sounds too good to be true, but I have over 80,000 miles on my GS and ST-S and I have now been bitten by the F3. They say "Riding has Evolved" and it sure does seem to be true. All I can say is you MUST try one for yourself and come to your own conclusions. I never thought it would work so well, but I have to tell you it is going to rock the cruiser market once people figure out how good it works. It looks good, sounds good, rides good, sits well, handles better, my guess is (in the next few years) BRP will sell twice as many Spyders than they do now. The F3 truly does change the rules, and it is completely a bad-ass bitchin' machine.
For those who do not know me, I am a professional snowmobile test rider. I have been doing independent performance evaluations on all brands of snowmobiles for over 30 years. With this background, I was brought in on some of the original Spyder P0 & P1 prototype testing back in 2001, and again in 2005 on P3 prototypes. I was also able to perform pre-production evaluations in January of 2007. I currently own a 2008 GS and a 2013 ST-S and have purchased three Spyders with my own money out of my own pocket. To date I have logged over 80,000 miles on Spyders.
96448
When the first spy photos of the 2015 Can-Am Spyder F3 leaked, I admit I was not all that impressed. Up to that point I had no knowledge of this new model. I really didn’t think much of the new look or seating position, as I am NOT a cruiser guy. Being a snowmobiler, I far prefer the riding position of the ST-S. Or, at least that was what I thought.
The private event I attended occurred September 29-30, Monday & Tuesday. We rode for half a day on each of the days and put on a total of about 400 km (250 miles). We had a full presentation from the Spyder marketing and design teams. We also toured the BRP Design Studio, Ski-Doo/Spyder assembly lines and visited the J. Armand Bombardier Museum. There were 21 media guys there from all over the planet, mostly motorcycle but also some automotive and lifestyle editors. Most of the bike guys were from So Cal and they had little Spyder experience going into this. They really came away with a new appreciation of what BRP was up to. Most of them got it, in that they understand this is the first Spyder that will be taken seriously by a growing number of motorcycle enthusiasts. Some of them really liked it, especially the 1330 ACE engine, but they really were surprised by the image the F3 projected, along with the new feel and the handling response. Let's just say we now have more of their attention and respect.
96449
I was the only off-road/snowmobile/Spyder guy out of this bunch, and I believe I was the only one there that actually owns a couple of Spyders and for sure the only one with over 80,000 miles on them. I did my best to infect them with my Spyder enthusiasm and help them understand the benefits of the platform. Since they had little Spyder experience to draw from I did my best to help them fill in the blanks.
Going back to the original 2008 GS model, we have to remember that BRP was a company that knew snowmobiles, ATVs and watercraft. They started out building Spyder models based on what they knew and what they were good at. They looked like a blend of snowmobile and watercraft styling and elements, but with wheels. In the past seven years of selling Spyders, BRP has watched and listened to what Spyder owners were doing with the rides, but also to the reasons why other motorcyclists were not buying one.
In the motorcycle market, there are four main segments, or model styles; we have the Sport (RS), Sport Touring (ST), Touring (RT) and now Cruiser (F3). With the addition of the F3 models, Spyders now cover all of these model segments. They all represent different riding positions from one end to the other, from far forward (RS) to less forward (ST) to neutral (RT) to laid back cruiser (F3).
That said, their first Spyder three models (RS, ST & RT) really only targeted 1/3 of the total motorcycle market. The Sport, Sport-Touring and Touring segments only account for 34% of the total motorcycle market here in the U.S. Of those first three models, the RT was by far the most successful. 1/3 of the Touring bikes sold are now Spyder RTs, but Touring bikes are only 7% of the total market.
Which brings us to the real reason Can-Am is building the F3; the Cruiser segment is 66% of the U.S. market. The three existing Spyder models were not appealing to 2/3 of the motorcycle market, thus a huge opportunity was being missed. Now with the F3, the market appeal of Spyder is going to be three times what it was (and this could be why it is called the F3).
In analyzing why the other motorcycle enthusiasts were not buying a Spyder, it was primarily because of the riding position and the styling. Riders also told BRP the previous Spyder models did not fit their personality, and they didn’t like the handling characteristics. Motorcycle riders told BRP they wanted a more relaxed riding position with their feet out in front of them. They told them they wanted styling that was bold and muscular and didn’t look like a snowmobile or watercraft. They wanted to see the engine and the frame and the mechanicals. Riders wanted more comfort, and wanted to get it regardless of their height.
96451
This is where the F3 shines, in its ability to comfortably fit riders from short to tall with the handlebar options and footrest positioning. This feature alone is brilliant. 90% of the riders (from the 5th percentile female to the 95th percentile male) can be fit perfectly with the uFit system of adjustable foot peg positioning and optional handlebars. You plug in your height, and the foot peg position is calculated as it the handlebar type (four accessory bars in addition to the stock bars). I stand 6’ 4” and with the long reach bars and foot pegs set at #5 the F3 was dead-nuts perfect. And I mean perfect.
Those of us who own and ride a Spyder might look at the F3 and say, “No big deal, it is a Spyder with a different seating position, that’s not for me. It’s not that different.” This is exactly what I thought going into this, very strongly in fact. I actually didn’t want to like it. But when you ride the F3, it doesn’t take very long for you to realize there is more to it than just sitting in a different position. How you hang onto the bike changes, and how your body counters the lateral G-forces of going around a corner changes. Even if you are not a cruiser rider, you need to take an F3 for a ride because of the benefits that are afforded by this new riding position.
96453
The single biggest difference with how the F3 feels and acts when you ride is due to where the rider is positioned on the chassis. Instead of sitting up on top of the gas tank, the gas tank is now in front of you; the rider is sitting lower and further back on the chassis - you now sit 5.5” further back and 3.5” lower, with your feet about 12” further ahead.
This does several things. You now are put into a cruiser bike riding position, which is what many motorcycle riders have been asking for. But the main benefit is how you hang onto the bike, especially when cornering. Instead of having to hang on with your arms, you are now locked into the bucket seat with your feet and legs. This means the cornering G-forces are being countered far more with your legs than your arms. Instead of having to hang on with your arms AND use them for steering, you can pretty much hang on with your legs which frees up your arms for just steering. This is a profound difference in that it makes the riding experience much easier and less fatiguing. It doesn’t feel like you are going to fall off of the Spyder going around a corner. You are locked in with your feet pushing you back into the cupped saddle. It still helps to lean into the corners, but the overall experience is markedly different, more pleasurable, and easier.
96454
The new frame design (with the two added spars on both sides) is 40% stiffer, and this added torsional rigidity means a more responsive platform from which to tune the suspensions. This, along with the rider’s lower center of gravity means the F3 corners flatter. There is also less body roll and lane wandering. It is easier to corner, not as twitchy, and better follows your intended lines. As you ride it the thought occurs that this is the way a Spyder is supposed to feel, far more intuitive and natural.
I can not emphasize enough the difference in handling afforded by these changes. The F3 is easy to ride, very comfortable, and is very confident to ride hard around corners. I would have sworn that this riding position would be a detriment to the handling capability of the vehicle, but with your weight carried further back and lower the Spyder F3 is really settled.
Then there is the engine. Anyone who has ridden a 2014 RT with the 1330 ACE engine knows how good this engine is, and while many of us are not Touring bike riders and do not want the styling, features or image of the RT, we do want the 1330 engine. Since the 1330 is not offered in an RS or ST package, the F3 is the only option for those who want the 1330 engine but not the feature package, weight and image of the of the RT.
Being 160 pounds lighter than an RT with the same 1330 engine and the lower final gearing, the performance of the F3 is quite impressive as it will pull 0-60 mph in 4.8 seconds (BRP supplied numbers). It is far more lively and sportier than the RT with the same engine, as it should be. The F3 is geared slightly lower with a 4-tooth larger rear sprocket (requiring the drive belt to be 2" longer). The machine seems to run at 500 RPM higher for a given road speed and gear selection. It squaks the rear tire much easier, allowing a more aggressive drive-away characteristic if you so choose. You can actually squak the rear tire with most any and every gear shift. With the super broad torque band of the 1330, the exact shift points are really a moot point compared to a 990/991. It sounds throaty and deeper, it pulls hard and stretches your arms.
The VSS stability system has also been re-calibrated and it will now let you get away with more fun than before, as it will apply the brakes slightly before cutting the throttle. This is very enjoyable and noticeable as you start to push the vehicle to its limits. I could run the F3 really hard into a corner, one that would have got the nanny to kick in on my GS or ST-S. You can actually get the back end to break loose slightly and the outside front tire brake will be applied before the throttle is cut, which is really fun as well. Yes, I would like the nanny to loosen up even more, but at least we have made progress. Let’s just say you can get away with far more than before, and it is noticeable.
BRP is in business to sell machines, and the F3 is going to expand their footprint. That said, BRP doesn’t look at this as current Spyder owners buying an F3 instead of what we own right now, that misses the point; the F3 is aimed at riders of cruiser bikes who currently do not own a Spyder. Sure, some of us will cross over, but we are a very small number compared to the 66% of the cycle market that is being targeted. We will compare the F3 to the Spyders we currently own and ride; the rest of the world will compare the F3 to the Cruiser bike they currently own and ride. Even if not a single current Spyder owner buys one, the F3 will still be a success. Five years from now we will look back at this moment and realize the significance of the F3 introduction and how it really put the Spyder on the map when it comes to true motorcycle market acceptance. That is my prediction, and history will be the judge.
I would also expect all of our current segments to continue to exist, the RS, ST, RT and now the F3. If anything it seems likely for them to next come with a smaller, lighter, lower powered machine with a lower price point. But, you will probably see all of our four segments represented from this point forward. The F3 should not takeaway many from the RT crowd, but it is expected to take away from the RS and ST riders simply due to the price point and the engine offering. And once you ride one and see how it feels and handles, the riding position becomes far more of an asset, even if you are not a cruiser rider.
My single biggest complain would be the small trunk up front, only about 1/2 the size as before. Side-mounted radiators/coolers ate up much of the space, so the room left over was much smaller. Past that there was little to find fault with. Maybe the gauge, it is pretty much the same gauge package as on a 2008 model, but it is familiar and functional. I for one still like analog and digital displays working together. The wind protection from the wide body is also way better than you would expect.
Again, I am NOT a cruiser rider, never have been, but have to admit the F3 works FAR better than even I expected. I know this sounds too good to be true, but I have over 80,000 miles on my GS and ST-S and I have now been bitten by the F3. They say "Riding has Evolved" and it sure does seem to be true. All I can say is you MUST try one for yourself and come to your own conclusions. I never thought it would work so well, but I have to tell you it is going to rock the cruiser market once people figure out how good it works. It looks good, sounds good, rides good, sits well, handles better, my guess is (in the next few years) BRP will sell twice as many Spyders than they do now. The F3 truly does change the rules, and it is completely a bad-ass bitchin' machine.