Seeking advice

[Kriemer]

I love my 2012 RT-S-S! I have over 35 years experience on 2 wheels and I really want the Spyder to work out for me. I have almost 3000 miles on the clock and I still do not feel comfortable on my RT. I just don't seem to be able to get used to the steering. There are times when everything was great, but overall it scares me. I was a very fast rider on 2 wheels, but anything over 50 MPH makes me uncomfortable. The bike has been checked recently by my excellent dealer and they say that all is up to spec. I have Elkas all around and have Baja Rons sway bar and I am running 20lbs in the front tires and 30 in the rear. I have read all the offerings on this terrific forum, but I still haven't found the answer to my discomfort. I hope the collective wisdom on this site can offer me some sage advice!

[ARtraveler]

Sorry to hear of your issues. Most are able to conquer the :spyder2: handling within 500 miles or so. Most of the time, overcontrolling seems to be a large part.

That said, it is surely possible that other things can be contributing to any issues.

:ani29:: Air pressure in the tires.
:ani29:: Shock issues
:ani29:: Suspension issues
:ani29:: Alignment issues
:ani29:: Bad tires

The fact that the dealer says it is in spec, does not guarantee that. It is possible that they may have missed something. Sometimes, it takes a good hard look by a good mechanical person.

My suggestion: Perhaps someone in your area could hook up with you and test drive your :spyder2:. Another set of eyes may catch something that has not been caught before.

Hoping you can get the problem(s) solved. Please keep us in the loop.

[chad.attard.9]

get the front laser alignment done. Makes all the difference.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Dragonrider]

The Spyder IS a different beast. I would recommend that you find a back road route to someplace fun that is 200 miles, or so, round trip - no superslab. Practice opening your hands, and pushing the bars with the web between your thumb and hand - rather than gripping it. Watch the road signs, and keep the Spyder at 5mph over the posted speed for the first half of the trip - no more, and adjust as you feel comfortable, on the return.

Try to do this on low traffic roads, so your focus is on the road, not traffic. Finally, when you corner, go wide, and straighten the corner as much as you can - smoothly - to feel the Spyder on the road. Don't push it on this trip - just feel the bike move on the road.

Keeping your hands open will force you to relax, and not be so tense - the biggest issue for many rider converts. It is also important that there is something really fun for you, as a separate goal of this trip, and do it ASAP - don't let the Spyder sit until spring, for you to amp up your angst.

If you're still as uncomfortable when you return, it may be time to return to two wheels, but not until after!!!

[robmorg]

Not sure what to tell you. With 3000 miles on the RT, unless there is something physically wrong with the bike (along the lines of what akspyderman suggested you check), you SHOULD be feeling very confident on it by now - even in tight turns. I don't want to insult you with what you probably already know, but I'll go over "the basics" again, just in case you missed something....

1. Read this thread (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?41346-quot-Do-s-and-Do-Nots-quot-for-new-Spyder-owners). Lots of pointers in there.

2. Don't grip the handlebars too tightly. Relax your grip.

3. As with a motorcycle, if necessary to slow or brake for a turn, do it before you enter the turn. Then accelerate out of the turn once you are past the apex.

4. Also, as with a motorcycle, keep your eyes where you want the bike to go - don't look at the road right in front of you.

5. Look in your owners manual for some excellent tips on how/where to position the bike in a turn.

The following two procedures are different from a motorcycle and are done on every turn. The faster you do the turn, or the tighter the turn is, the more you do them... (On an easy turn, these actions may be barely noticeable, but you still subconsciously do them.)

6. Lean into the turn. Also it helps to lower your center of gravity by leaning forward and down. Think of this as "trying" to lean over the handle bar toward the turn.

7. Put pressure on the side of the bike with your leg, in the direction of the turn. Both this and the point directly above are intended to counteract the centrifugal force trying to push you to the outside of the turn.


If you are sure you are doing everything above, and you are still uncomfortable after 3000 miles, then I would suspect something on the bike needs attention. (Again refer to akspyerman's post above.)

[shelbydave]

Not coming from a 2-wheeler, well, I had about 30 years to forget all that stuff, I wonder if it's harder to adapt the longer you've been on 2 before you move to 3. I know it took a while for me, but I was over controlling, gripping too tight. As soon as I relaxed, things got much easier.
I also recalled my snowmobile riding days, and rather than just "leaning" my body in a turn, I also plant the outside foot in turns, like I'm trying to stand up. That shifts my weight to the inside of the turn to counter the force pushing me to the outside.

[BajaRon]

Very odd that you're still having trouble this far in. A laser alignment, as mentioned by others, is recommended if not already done. It may even be that your Elka's are not set up correctly or that you have issues in the suspension.

Unfortunately, I agree that just because the dealer says your Spyder is ok, does not necessarily mean it is ok.

Can you give a more detailed description of exactly what seems to be the issue or issues that make you feel so uncomfortable?

I think it would be a great idea, if possible, to swap rides with another Spyder owner and take a little trip. They might discover what is giving you trouble, you might discover another Spyder either resolves or confirms your problems.

[BikerDoc]

The Spyder IS a different beast. I would recommend that you find a back road route to someplace fun that is 200 miles, or so, round trip - no superslab. Practice opening your hands, and pushing the bars with the web between your thumb and hand - rather than gripping it. Watch the road signs, and keep the Spyder at 5mph over the posted speed for the first half of the trip - no more, and adjust as you feel comfortable, on the return.

Try to do this on low traffic roads, so your focus is on the road, not traffic. Finally, when you corner, go wide, and straighten the corner as much as you can - smoothly - to feel the Spyder on the road. Don't push it on this trip - just feel the bike move on the road.

Keeping your hands open will force you to relax, and not be so tense - the biggest issue for many rider converts. It is also important that there is something really fun for you, as a separate goal of this trip, and do it ASAP - don't let the Spyder sit until spring, for you to amp up your angst.

If you're still as uncomfortable when you return, it may be time to return to two wheels, but not until after!!! This is superb advice... you have to force yourself not to grip but rather to caress

[ingramsail]

I agree with Ron, find another RT rider and swap rides. Also just relax the hands and enjoy the ride.

[PrairieSpyder]

One thing I realized until I got more experience: We say to relax your grip on the handlebars. But that's hard to do if you're using the handlebars to hang on! Remember to use your lower body to balance in a turn and only hold the bars enough to steer as needed. It's almost (to me) like staying up in the stirrups of a horse saddle, freeing your arms and shoulders to control the beast!

[Bob Denman]

You're in Massachusetts; do you have any experience riding snowmobiles?
Treat them just like a sled, and most of the adaptation process is already over!:thumbup:
That having been said; don't trust your dealership to get the alignment right.
You might also want to pull your knees in against the tank; it'll hold you steadier up in the saddle.

[mob133]

have you ever rode a snowmobile,when your going down the trail the it is impossible to keep the machine dead straight.ski grab in the ruts and stuff this is the same for the spyder hold on lightly let it dance down the road alittle unless it is grabbing anddiving everything is normal.it will not ever go perfectly straight like your bike did . I recently acquired a bike for the first time and can tell youthe only thing motorcycle about these things is whats written on the tires and your licence.everything else FORGET....

[mob133]

SORRY BOB you must have posted while I was typing

[Kriemer]

Thank you for the excellent feedback! I bought the Elkas from Len and I assume that they are set up for my weight, but I did lower the preload and the high speed compression. I think I am still gripping the bars too tightly and I really like the idea of not 'holding' the grips. My dealer does not offer laser alignment until next Spring and I did ask them to road test the RT which they said was OK.

[Genet]

I went thru the exact same thing,I really thought I made the biggest mistake getting rid of my harley.i went back to the dealer because I was convinced that something was very wrong with the bike.they let me ride another bike with the tech riding my bike.when we got back ( the loaner was no better ) the tech told me to get rid of the " death grip " I had on the bike and to just relax.i left there and a huge difference,but not 100% yet.i changed the sway bar,changed the shocks,the bike was getting better,but still not quite there.then I had a laser alignment and omg I could not believe the difference. Now I can not ride enough,when I do it's just soooo much fun.
If you take the advice from the riders on this forum you will be another happy spyder owner,I know I am.

[Bob Denman]

SORRY BOB you must have posted while I was typing
:D I'd say that, "Great minds must think alike", but I'd never want to insult you like that! :opps:

When I first got mine; during the first two miles on the way home, I was SURE that I had just made the biggest mistake of my life... :shocked:
Then I thought, "These things are made by Ski doo, and they know how to make something go straight down a trail..."
I relaxed my grip, and the clouds parted...:thumbup:

[Netminder]

These are the three things that made my Spyder ride like a charm compared to when I brought it home new :

Elka shocks
Baja Ron anti-sway bar
laser Alignment

before the above, although I never felt unsafe, I was tired after a long ride. After the above, I am fine after a ride and feel I could keep going. Also as mentioned above, once I relaxed my grip that helped a lot. Hopefully you find the issue and enjoy your ride to the fullest!

[vided]

This is one of those threads that I will bookmark.
the tips are excellent
thanks:yes:

[bmccaffrey]

GRIP GRIP GRIP RELAX:banghead:

[2RTsGV]

I love my 2012 RT-S-S! I have over 35 years experience on 2 wheels and I really want the Spyder to work out for me. I have almost 3000 miles on the clock and I still do not feel comfortable on my RT. I just don't seem to be able to get used to the steering. There are times when everything was great, but overall it scares me. I was a very fast rider on 2 wheels, but anything over 50 MPH makes me uncomfortable. The bike has been checked recently by my excellent dealer and they say that all is up to spec. I have Elkas all around and have Baja Rons sway bar and I am running 20lbs in the front tires and 30 in the rear. I have read all the offerings on this terrific forum, but I still haven't found the answer to my discomfort. I hope the collective wisdom on this site can offer me some sage advice!

Once my wife and I had the laser alignment done on our spyders, they rode & cornered so smoothly and with less effort. Best investment we made on our rydes!

[Web Runner]

I love my 2012 RT-S-S! I have over 35 years experience on 2 wheels and I really want the Spyder to work out for me. I have almost 3000 miles on the clock and I still do not feel comfortable on my RT. I just don't seem to be able to get used to the steering. There are times when everything was great, but overall it scares me. I was a very fast rider on 2 wheels, but anything over 50 MPH makes me uncomfortable. The bike has been checked recently by my excellent dealer and they say that all is up to spec. I have Elkas all around and have Baja Rons sway bar and I am running 20lbs in the front tires and 30 in the rear. I have read all the offerings on this terrific forum, but I still haven't found the answer to my discomfort. I hope the collective wisdom on this site can offer me some sage advice!


Sounds like you have your bases covered. I would suggest checking the A-arm bushings, both upper and lower. If they are worn, it could be a contributing factor to your uneasiness. Grab each of the A-arms and try pulling to the front and pushing to the back of the bike. If it moves or shifts around laterally, it could very well be worn. Mine were worn at around 7,000 miles. If you have the bushings replaced, ask whoever does the job to coat the bushings inside and out directly in grease as the zirk fittings don't get the grease where it needs to be.

[Chupaca]

coming from two wheelers there is a lack of it. I have told many to ryde and release the bars altogether to see how solid it tracks and apply the brakes coming to a full stop with out putting your hands on the bars. Then the great suggestions above will help. When cornering I find that pushing slightly to inside of the curve with a stiff arm dropping the opposite elbow to a parallel position with the bars slightly pulling to the inside of the curve helps your position and gives you a relaxed turn. I also like them to test out the nanny by making tight turns where she will apply the brakes for you. You have put on a lot of miles but I think your still fighting it....:thumbup:

[hognut]

WOW! This was a great post for me. After 500 miles I was beginning to think I was the only one having newbie problems. Thank you all for the great information. I am having a hard time dealing with the lean in turns. It really feels like the spyder will tip over to me. :) I will try to loosen the "death grip" tomorrow.

[jerpinoy]

Not sure what to tell you. With 3000 miles on the RT, unless there is something physically wrong with the bike (along the lines of what akspyderman suggested you check), you SHOULD be feeling very confident on it by now - even in tight turns. I don't want to insult you with what you probably already know, but I'll go over "the basics" again, just in case you missed something....

1. Read this thread (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?41346-quot-Do-s-and-Do-Nots-quot-for-new-Spyder-owners). Lots of pointers in there.

2. Don't grip the handlebars too tightly. Relax your grip.

3. As with a motorcycle, if necessary to slow or brake for a turn, do it before you enter the turn. Then accelerate out of the turn once you are past the apex.

4. Also, as with a motorcycle, keep your eyes where you want the bike to go - don't look at the road right in front of you.

5. Look in your owners manual for some excellent tips on how/where to position the bike in a turn.

The following two procedures are different from a motorcycle and are done on every turn. The faster you do the turn, or the tighter the turn is, the more you do them... (On an easy turn, these actions may be barely noticeable, but you still subconsciously do them.)

6. Lean into the turn. Also it helps to lower your center of gravity by leaning forward and down. Think of this as "trying" to lean over the handle bar toward the turn.

7. Put pressure on the side of the bike with your leg, in the direction of the turn. Both this and the point directly above are intended to counteract the centrifugal force trying to push you to the outside of the turn.


If you are sure you are doing everything above, and you are still uncomfortable after 3000 miles, then I would suspect something on the bike needs attention. (Again refer to akspyerman's post above.)

I agree and this is the best advice to anyone.

[AlEverett]

The trick that got me to relax my grip, especially at speed, was to use the cruise control more and that way I didn't have to grip the throttle all the time. After that I began to get used to the light touch. Good Luck.

[ChasCS]

Have also found the use of my cruise control allowed me to let the blue blood flow back, into my paled, white knuckles... ;-)

There is no need for horse grips on your handlebars. Be aware though, with a too loose ryding grasp, if you hit a large bump or God forbid a nasty pothole, your hands could fly off of the handle.
Ah, so a relaxed grip doesn't mean floating on the bars...
Firm but gentle. Is more than adequate.
Stay loose and relaxed. Let the tension off, some.

Enjoy the ryde.

Chas

[ThreeWheels]

I love my 2012 RT-S-S! I have over 35 years experience on 2 wheels and I really want the Spyder to work out for me. I have almost 3000 miles on the clock and I still do not feel comfortable on my RT. I just don't seem to be able to get used to the steering. There are times when everything was great, but overall it scares me. I was a very fast rider on 2 wheels, but anything over 50 MPH makes me uncomfortable. The bike has been checked recently by my excellent dealer and they say that all is up to spec. I have Elkas all around and have Baja Rons sway bar and I am running 20lbs in the front tires and 30 in the rear. I have read all the offerings on this terrific forum, but I still haven't found the answer to my discomfort. I hope the collective wisdom on this site can offer me some sage advice!

Been there done that.
On the highway, does it feel like it has a life all it's own ? It wants to wiggle and wander over the lane almost as though you are constantly buffeted by big 18 wheeler, but there is no one in front of you ?

Here's the thread:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?19631-My-Journey-to-Good-Handling&highlight=journey+good+handling

In short, I totally agree with all the posters who said get a laser alignment. Unless your dealer can do a laser alignment, it may be set up as best he can, but it's still inadequate.

Keep us posted.

[Kriemer]

Thank s to all who took the time to respond to my post. The information offered is indispensable and I can't wait for my next ride!

[warp10]

I would add 1 more point. Try and not ride in the center of the road. The spyder tires are not as wide as a car so they are always trying to ride up one side of the center hump. You need to find a spot just to the left or right of center. You know you have found it when you don't have to push very hard on the handle bars to keep the bike going straight. If you try riding on the left side of center and go to the right side of center you will feel the pressure on the handle bars shift from one side to the other to keep the bike going straight.

Hope this helps. :yes:

[golfsferr]

I love my 2012 RT-S-S! I have over 35 years experience on 2 wheels and I really want the Spyder to work out for me. I have almost 3000 miles on the clock and I still do not feel comfortable on my RT. I just don't seem to be able to get used to the steering. There are times when everything was great, but overall it scares me. I was a very fast rider on 2 wheels, but anything over 50 MPH makes me uncomfortable. The bike has been checked recently by my excellent dealer and they say that all is up to spec. I have Elkas all around and have Baja Rons sway bar and I am running 20lbs in the front tires and 30 in the rear. I have read all the offerings on this terrific forum, but I still haven't found the answer to my discomfort. I hope the collective wisdom on this site can offer me some sage advice!

I've only got 4500 miles on my STS SE5 so I'm no expert but I'm a lot more comfortable now than 2000 miles ago. It was a love/hate thing. I don't mean to sound trite but I was fighting it too much. Once I loosened my grip, braced myself into the turn and now added Bajaron's sway bar, I feel more in control.

When you say it scares you, is it that you feel like you're going to come off of it in a turn? Do you feel like you don't have control of the turn with your arms. Does the bike dart side to side on a straight road? Some of it can be mitigated with new hardware and alignment of course, but some is just adjusting to the different riding style. But you first have to know exactly what scares you.

I had one turn awhile back that taught me something about my approach to a turn. I was letting the opposing arm of the direction of the turn be too dominate. Meaning my extended arm was in control of the turn and when the turn demanded more turn I was just trying to extend my arm further instead of letting my retracted arm take control of the turn and consequently felt at times I was loosing control of the turn because my extended arm was falling short of my goal. Now I get the retracted arm to take control and steering is more balanced.

Im sure to most here this all happens instinctively but in case it hasn't it may be something to think about. Bottom line in my opinion the Spyder requires a little more "work" to operate than a 2 wheel. But then I'm no expert on a 2 wheel either.. But it's work I enjoy!

good luck!:2thumbs::2thumbs:

[GunDoctor]

Been riding since I was 9, motocross. In my younger years, now in my late 50's I just ordered as of yesterday the F3-S but keeping the Harley. I bought my girlfriend a RSS 2011 for her BD and she is a master at it. Did take her a few hundred miles to get use to, but never rode a motorcycle. Wanted a Harley, but has to issues in her ability to ride...tailgates and panic brakes...two things you never do on a motorcycle. My only issue when I have rode hers is the quickness to respond to the slightest correction on the freeway. I will likely install sway bars for her and extensions on her bars.

[Dan_Ashley]

You gotta unlearn counter steering. Your brain is working against you. Tell your brain to relax.

[obiwan57]

This is superb advice... you have to force yourself not to grip but rather to caress

I have just had my 2013 RT Limited a little over a week. I came over from a 2011 Harley-Davidson Ultra Classic, and the Spyder is definitely different, but I think I'm already getting to know it. Not gripping the handlebar as tightly is a key, although I also found that to be true with the Harley. Learning how to "lean" your body into the Spyder in a turn is what I'm concentrating on. I also went to a vacant parking lot and did some practice using some tips from the owner's manual before I did much riding in traffic.

I did manage to ride the Spyder safely when I first picked it up for the 110 mile trip from Birmingham AL back to Huntsville. Just take your time and get used to how the Spyder handles and I think you will enjoy it, I know I certainly am!

[oldguyinTX]

In Ma you are, but you might try Ron in Accord, NY. He did my laser alignment & it made a heck of a lot of difference. Check this site for his contact info:

http://www.spydercomfort.com/independant%20dealers.htm

[sduskin]

I felt very uncomfortable going around corners also. Then a couple ladies riding behind me told me to quit riding like I was on a 2-wheeler and to think of your handlebars like the bar you see in a hang glider. When turning lean somewhat forward and inside over the inside hand. I am 300 lbs and 6 ft tall and this small bit of advice made cornering SO much better for me. the faster the turning speed the lower I lean and sometimes I lean more over the grip. The way they explained it, it changes your center of gravity and helps shift your weight over the inside wheel.

Took a few runs down a curvy road practicing. Now, I almost dont have to think about doing it.

My wife, who is a foot shorter and LOTS less heavy, doesnt have to do this as much. Because her center of gravity is much lower. :)

[R FUN]

I also was having problems getting used to the spyder after riding two wheels for over 60 years. I was at spyderfest in Cuba Mo. in 2012 and talked to Lamont and Len and both advised I needed Elka shocks. I had Len install the Elkas and it greatly improved the handling. A year later I had Lens shock relocaters installed while at Spyderfest 2013. When leaving there shop and hit the freeway I noticed a control problem right away. I turned around and went back to the shop. Len checked and right away reolized the shocks had not been readjusted after the relocator install. It took only a few minutes to adjust the shocks right but makes all the difference in the world. You say you adjusted your shocks but are they adjusted right or just guessing which I found does not work. Just my two cents worth but maybe your front shocks are not set up right which I found makes a big difference to have them correct.
Roger

[Dgjason]

Remember that not like anything else on the road you are tracking on three different areas on the road. This becomes pronounced on asphalt roads. Don't fight slight pulling in any direction. See if you are more comfortable on concrete highways. Notice the difference and you will understand what is happening.

Dennis

[Dgjason]

if you have a Spyder club in your area you could get one of them to drive your bike and see if there is a problem. You keep their Spyder while they are checking out yours. :ohyea:

[Oldmanzues]

I am a believer in parking lot playgrounds in learning riding. Use almost anything small, tennis balls cut in half, (many places give you used ones for free). paper cups with a little water, very small cones to mark out turn and curves. Start slow and work up to comfort level. Think about what you did right. If you "go outside the lines" it is no big deal.
Lots of other good ideas above.
Good luck and hace fun
Oldmanzues

[Bob Denman]

In Ma you are, but you might try Ron in Accord, NY. He did my laser alignment & it made a heck of a lot of difference. Check this site for his contact info:

http://www.spydercomfort.com/independant%20dealers.htm


:agree: It'll be worth the trip! :thumbup:

[MidTNDawg]

I love my 2012 RT-S-S! I have over 35 years experience on 2 wheels and I really want the Spyder to work out for me. I have almost 3000 miles on the clock and I still do not feel comfortable on my RT. I just don't seem to be able to get used to the steering. There are times when everything was great, but overall it scares me. I was a very fast rider on 2 wheels, but anything over 50 MPH makes me uncomfortable. The bike has been checked recently by my excellent dealer and they say that all is up to spec. I have Elkas all around and have Baja Rons sway bar and I am running 20lbs in the front tires and 30 in the rear. I have read all the offerings on this terrific forum, but I still haven't found the answer to my discomfort. I hope the collective wisdom on this site can offer me some sage advice!

I have over 600K miles on 2 wheels. It took me 3000 miles for my instinctive reaction to be appropriate for 3 wheels. Just hang in, keep riding, and you will become comfortable, I am sure.

[Dan_Ashley]

I have over 600K miles on 2 wheels. It took me 3000 miles for my instinctive reaction to be appropriate for 3 wheels. Just hang in, keep riding, and you will become comfortable, I am sure.
It took me 2,000 miles.