Cat Bypass - The Next Step in Heat Reduction

[robmorg]

My Lamonster Cat Bypass just arrived today from Pit Bull Powersports. :clap: I uploaded a picture of it in case anyone would like to see what one looks like. (See thumbnail below) Thought I'd post a picture now, as I won't see it once it's on the bike. ;) After I get it installed, I'll also try to post some "before and after" examples of the exhaust sound with the stock muffler, because some folks have asked about that.

I've done some things already (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?70618-Resolved-Upper-Heat-Problem) to reduce the rider heat on my 2013 RT (wrapping headers, strategic placement of reflective heat tape, etc.) Since I live in Pennsylvania, where it's not too terribly hot most of the year, that has made the bike fairly comfortable. Still feel some heat coming up around the seat on days when the temperature approaches the low or mid 90's though. I wanted the dealer to install the Cat Bypass at the time I did the other work, but at that time they refused to do it. Nor would they inspect the bike if I did it, they told me, because of Pennsylvania laws forbidding removal of OEM emissions equipment. I don't have the experience or the tools to install it myself, so I had kind of put the bypass idea out of my mind.

However, last week I approached my dealer again about it, and now their story has changed. (Might be they have more liability concern after the NHTSA fire investigation has gotten underway.) So I went ahead and ordered one. I'm hoping that between the work I've already done, and now pulling out the catalytic converter, I will have conquered the seat heat problem on my Spyder for good - even on hot summer days. (Of course I won't know that for sure now until next summer.)

I have not experienced any indication of gasoline boiling after I wrapped the headers and installed heat shielding between the engine and the fuel tank. But removing that hot cat from underneath the fuel tank should go even further to eliminate any possibility of that problem. For me this is both a comfort and a safety issue. But that said, I also won't mind the deeper exhaust sound and the little extra torque that Pit Bull said I should experience. (The guy at Pit Bull said the exhaust won't get much louder with the stock muffler - it will just "sound more like a motorcycle". :doorag:)

95891

[lwrydr]

I put one on my RT a couple of weeks ago and can't really see much diff in sound. I also added JT's air filter and it makes a new sound when the rpm's are between 4 and 5 k...I have never had any heat issues so can't address that....but I did get a little more power...

[bmccaffrey]

If u have stock exhaust it won't be much louder. Aftermarket will:yes:

[robmorg]

If u have stock exhaust it won't be much louder. Aftermarket will:yes:That's what the guy I spoke with at Pit Bull said. "Won't be much louder with the stock muffler - it will just sound more like a motorcycle". That makes sense. It will be interesting, though, to see how the sound will be different. I'm hoping for just a tad "deeper"

[CMA Cowboy]

We had the by-pass done on the wife's today. Nice sound when the RPM's are up.

[BikerDoc]

The cat bypass and Akrapovic exhaust with baffles removed makes a wonderful sound.. I have never enjoyed riding as much as I do now and I recently passed 100000 miles on my spyders. It is especially great when slowing and going through the downshift.. my buddy with two brothers says he can't hear his mufflers anymore when he rides behind me.

[robmorg]

The cat bypass and Akrapovic exhaust with baffles removed makes a wonderful sound.. I have never enjoyed riding as much as I do now and I recently passed 100000 miles on my spyders. It is especially great when slowing and going through the downshift.. my buddy with two brothers says he can't hear his mufflers anymore when he rides behind me.
I don't like loud mufflers, but I certainly don't mind that other riders do. One of the nice things about being "up in years" is that you no longer have to worry about loud music and loud mufflers wrecking your hearing some day. "Some day" has already arrived. ;)

[Dragonfly]

Since you wrapped the header pipes wrap that Y pipe before installing. I did mine and sprayed it with the High Heat Coating.

95915

[robmorg]

Yep, that's an excellent point. :thumbup:

My bypass will be wrapped before it goes on the bike.

[Bob Denman]

...Can't wait to hear the results; Good Luck! :thumbup:

[zamfield]

Since you wrapped the header pipes wrap that Y pipe before installing. I did mine and sprayed it with the High Heat Coating.

95915

Nicely done! :thumbup:

[Dan McNally]

A CAT bypass is on my "want" list, but I've bumped it down in priority for a while . . . I'm hoping the NHTSA investigation will result in BRP removing the CAT, and putting on a new muffler with the CAT at the end of it, where it should have been, to begin with! Also, with cooler weather, here, it isn't as much of an issue, right now. I have a 1000+ mile trip coming up in early October, to Ohio, and the heat might actually be welcome, there!

[Bob Denman]

That's the way that the "990" engines were packaged... :thumbup:

[jcthorne]

A CAT bypass is on my "want" list, but I've bumped it down in priority for a while . . . I'm hoping the NHTSA investigation will result in BRP removing the CAT, and putting on a new muffler with the CAT at the end of it, where it should have been, to begin with! Also, with cooler weather, here, it isn't as much of an issue, right now. I have a 1000+ mile trip coming up in early October, to Ohio, and the heat might actually be welcome, there!


Not going to happen. Moving the cat further away from the engine will not meet the same emission requirements. Besides, that's an expensive way to improve the bike, plus it make the exhaust incompatible with the rest of the line and would require extensive EPA recertifications.

No, I think the end result of all this is likely that the earlier RTs will get some sort of revised side body panels like the ST got for 2014 along with some ECM recalibrations and MAYBE some insulation applied to the fuel tank. Perhaps a relocated evap canister. Anything that goes into the thousands of dollars per bike parts and labor is not going to happen.

[robmorg]

No, I think the end result of all this is likely that the earlier RTs will get some sort of revised side body panels like the ST got for 2014 along with some ECM recalibrations and MAYBE some insulation applied to the fuel tank. Perhaps a relocated evap canister. Anything that goes into the thousands of dollars per bike parts and labor is not going to happen.
:agree: completely! JC, I think your projections about the out come from BRP after the NHTSB report is issued is spot on. That's why I'm spending the money to take matters into my own hands with my 2013 RT. My "return on investment" is getting more satisfaction out of the bike NOW, plus more piece of mind. Whatever else BRP does, several months from now, will be gravy.

[oldguyinTX]

That an investigation by the NHTSA may or may not result in proactive action by BRP on the 2013 heat problems, I would wager that they are waiting for the Canadian equivalent (Transport Canada, I Think) to make a move first. If you remember about the last recall, it was only after TC got involved that NHTSA got involved as well, which resulted in a recall. There was no NTHSA investigation before that recall, as there is now about Spyders Burning. Please, if you have a problem in the U.S, file a complaint with NHTSA. If you are in Canada or any other country, file a complaint with your local agency. There is strength in numbers.

[spydee owner]

Aren't catalytic converters used to limit the amount of greenhouse gases that go into the environment?
I know people are using the cat bypass to limit the localized heat when they ride, but, in the long term, the more greenhouse gases
that are put into the environment, make the environment hotter.
People complain about the temperature of the environment when they ride, but then remove the cat and potentially make things worse in the long term.

[jcthorne]

Aren't catalytic converters used to limit the amount of greenhouse gases that go into the environment?
I know people are using the cat bypass to limit the localized heat when they ride, but, in the long term, the more greenhouse gases
that are put into the environment, make the environment hotter.
People complain about the temperature of the environment when they ride, but then remove the cat and potentially make things worse in the long term.


First, understand that the cat does not reduce greenhouse gases. It swaps one gas for another. (Reduces CO and increases CO2). And while it may help with smog a bit, it increases CO2.

Second, greenhouse gases and the whole global warming discussing is FAR too political and not allowed for discussion here on Spyderlovers. Suffice it to say there are many that disagree with your sentiments but lets not discuss here.

Back to Spyder discussions.....

[Bob Denman]

:agree: Great explanation! :clap:
We now return you, to your regularly scheduled programming! :D

I once asked if anybody had tried running an RT with the lower black side panels removed. One person did answer; saying that it brought more air up through the openings under the seat...
Can anybody confirm that? :dontknow:

[jcthorne]

:agree: Great explanation! :clap:
We now return you, to your regularly scheduled programming! :D

I once asked if anybody had tried running an RT with the lower black side panels removed. One person did answer; saying that it brought more air up through the openings under the seat...
Can anybody confirm that? :dontknow:


Yep. Tried that. Having them in place seems to bring air flow down and out the bottom, especially with the underside panels gone. Removing the side skirts near the footboards did not work well for me and left the bike not looking great.

[Bob Denman]

So I'm guessing that there would be a need to address the direction of the airflow, as much as the amount of airflow... :banghead:

[spydee owner]

First, understand that the cat does not reduce greenhouse gases. It swaps one gas for another. (Reduces CO and increases CO2). And while it may help with smog a bit, it increases CO2.

Second, greenhouse gases and the whole global warming discussing is FAR too political and not allowed for discussion here on Spyderlovers. Suffice it to say there are many that disagree with your sentiments but lets not discuss here.

Back to Spyder discussions.....

First, you obviously are not up on your science. You can go to your country's EPA website and read up on greenhouse gases.
Secondly, I was talking about spyder catalytic converters. I did not make it political, you did.
Finally, did the owner of this site make you a moderator, and final say to any discussion? I made a comment and did not deserve to be cut off at the knees by your final comment "Back to Spyder discussions ...". It is no surprise to me that people who have belonged to this forum much longer than you are leaving the site, or not posting!

[Bob Denman]

ARE WE STARTING THIS CRAP AGAIN???? :gaah:
Please pull your post before this place turns into another "Free For All"...

[spydee owner]

Bob, I made a comment about spyder cats. It was jcthorne who took it upon himself to act judge jury and executioner. The only way, I will change this post is if I get a posted apology from him. I have been a member here since '09 and should be allowed to make an innocent post without being dressed down - especially by a member who only has been a member for a year. Ask jcthorne to retract his post Bob.

[Bob Denman]

Nope...
His answer to yuou was polite and explanatory. He then tried to get the discussion back on track...
You got crazy, and started yelling about science and politics...
We just went through a bloodbath in here; would you like to be the guy who starts another one?

[jcthorne]

If it helps to diffuse the situation any, I will offer a sincere apology to anyone that was offended by my comments. As is normally the case for me, offending was not my intention.

[spydee owner]

Bob, my initial comment never put the thread off track. Jcthorne, in my opinion, cut me out of the discussion by his comment "back to discussing spyders". He was the one who decided to give me an online lesson in catalytic converter chemistry. I did not go against anyone using a cat bypass. I made a simple comment on a thread.

I see now Bob, you are a self appointed moderator and online defender of the allegedly wrongly accused. I understand that it is easier for you to defend the comments of a fellow American, than an ousider. Now, I made it political.
In future, to help with your moderator duties, you may want to grow a spine and a pair of balls.
I am contacting Lamont and voluntarily requesting to be removed from this site.

[Bob Denman]

"Bob, my initial comment never put the thread off track. Jcthorne, in my opinion, cut me out of the discussion by his comment "back to discussing spyders". He was the one who decided to give me an online lesson in catalytic converter chemistry. I did not go against anyone using a cat bypass. I made a simple comment on a thread.

I see now Bob, you are a self appointed moderator and online defender of the allegedly wrongly accused. I understand that it is easier for you to defend the comments of a fellow American, than an ousider. Now, I made it political.
In future, to help with your moderator duties, you may want to grow a spine and a pair of balls.
I am contacting Lamont and voluntarily requesting to be removed from this site."

VERY nice... :clap: :roflblack:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_202.gif :chill:

[robmorg]

Bob,

Thanks for the effort, but it's probably best to just let it go. No one is going to change his mind, and if no one argues with him, he can't argue back. http://www.robmorgan.net/img-sm/free-fighting-smileys-109.gif

A discussion of the cat bypass is a worthy discussion on this form, and I don't want to have to delete this thread.

[Bob Denman]

:2thumbs: :D I guess that I started off the day, in less than my best form... :dontknow:

[mstngken]

Aren't catalytic converters used to limit the amount of greenhouse gases that go into the environment?
I know people are using the cat bypass to limit the localized heat when they ride, but, in the long term, the more greenhouse gases
that are put into the environment, make the environment hotter.
People complain about the temperature of the environment when they ride, but then remove the cat and potentially make things worse in the long term.

Just go and drive your Junkota Prius smell your own farts and belive everything the gooberment tells you about global warming! Its all true lol.

[AlEverett]

I have a simple question that is totally non-political. What is the difference between a Cat Bypass and just removing the catalytic convertor completely. I would think a muffler shop could cut out the catalytic convertor and replace with length of muffler tubing and weld the whole shebang together. What am I ignorant of here.

[Bob Denman]

it actually is the same thing...
You need to fill in the hole in the exhaust system, that is created when the converter is shelved.
That's the By-Pass.

[robmorg]

Yep. "Bypass" may be a misleading term. Here is what it looks like. The catalytic converter is removed and this pipe simply replaces it, sending the exhaust from the two headers into the muffler, and then out the back. The "round things" in the packages are new gaskets to replace those that are likely to be damaged when the cat is removed.

[jaherbst]

Removing the CAT is not the ultimate fix for heat dissipation. Don't expect too much. Probably only helped 10-20%. This is highly overrated. This will not solve your heat problem nor get rid of the noxious gas fumes. Had mine installed by PitBull at the owners event in Durango. I was disappointed. It did very little.
The bypass is a well made piece of work but did very little for fumes and heat.
I tried to trade for a 2014 last week in Las Vegas, Phoenix and Tucson (warm climates) best I could do was $12,000 for a 2013 RT-S with 5000 miles. No one down here wants them. Probably OK in the Northern Climes. Talked to BRP today about putting the correct engine in the new frame or making up the difference for the trade. the 2013 is the new frame and was designed to use the 1330 engine. Exhaust on the 998 is not compatable with the 2013-2015 frame. That is the reason for the heat problem on the 2013.

[Bob Denman]

All the same; every little bit has to help... right? :dontknow:

[robmorg]

All the same; every little bit has to help... right? :dontknow:

Right!

Jack, I'll be very happy if the cat bypass reduces my seat heat another 10-20% from what it was when I first bought the bike. The things I have already don (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?70618-Resolved-Upper-Heat-Problem)e have gotten rid of about 75% of the original heat, and eliminated the boiling gas issue for me. And the ECM update (Bulletin 2013-9), which enriched the mixture at idle and slow speeds, has helped some too when you are in slow moving situations. As this thread title implies, the cat bypass is just another step in the process. I won't know now until next summer how effective it has been.

I entirely agree with you that where you live makes a big difference. I have been closely monitoring the heat threads on this forum, and with few exceptions, it seems that those with the largest complaints - even with boiling gas and overflowing canisters - live in the southern states where the temperature gets hotter and stays hotter longer.


Talked to BRP today about putting the correct engine in the new frame or making up the difference for the trade. the 2013 is the new frame and was designed to use the 1330 engine. Just curious to know, Jack, how that conversation went. http://www.robmorgan.net/img-sm/confused.png

[Bob Denman]

:agree: Are they mailing you a 1130?? :dontknow: :bbq::bbq::bbq:

[jcthorne]

Removing the CAT is not the ultimate fix for heat dissipation. Don't expect too much. Probably only helped 10-20%. This is highly overrated. This will not solve your heat problem nor get rid of the noxious gas fumes. Had mine installed by PitBull at the owners event in Durango. I was disappointed. It did very little.The bypass is a well made piece of work but did very little for fumes and heat.I tried to trade for a 2014 last week in Las Vegas, Phoenix and Tucson (warm climates) best I could do was $12,000 for a 2013 RT-S with 5000 miles. No one down here wants them. Probably OK in the Northern Climes. Talked to BRP today about putting the correct engine in the new frame or making up the difference for the trade. the 2013 is the new frame and was designed to use the 1330 engine. Exhaust on the 998 is not compatable with the 2013-2015 frame. That is the reason for the heat problem on the 2013.

You do realize that the exhaust routing on the 2010 thru 2012 RTs is identical to the 2013 right? Its the revised component locations that result in much lower air flow under the tupperware that is the heart of the problem. The 2014 resolved it by moving the exhaust outside of the tupperware, not possible on a v-twin.

Let us know if BRP actually lends a hand to assist in any way.

[jaherbst]

You do realize that the exhaust routing on the 2010 thru 2012 RTs is identical to the 2013 right? Its the revised component locations that result in much lower air flow under the tupperware that is the heart of the problem. The 2014 resolved it by moving the exhaust outside of the tupperware, not possible on a v-twin.

Let us know if BRP actually lends a hand to assist in any way.

The difference is the newly designed frame for the 14's that they used in the 13's with the 998 engine. The frame was not designed to work with the 998. The tolerances are different and the add on mounts to adapt the 14 frame to the 13 engine (998)
puts the exhaust including the CAT in or around the tupperware. The exhaust on the 998 flows around and down the engine, then through the CAT, back over to the exhaust pipe and then the muffler. On the 1330 the exhaust goes strait down and out, back to the exposed CAT then the muffler. Thus avoiding all the exhaust piping and CAT inside the cowling or tupperware. WRONG FRAME FOR WRONG ENGINE.

Jack

[jaherbst]

Right!

Jack, I'll be very happy if the cat bypass reduces my seat heat another 10-20% from what it was when I first bought the bike. The things I have already don (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?70618-Resolved-Upper-Heat-Problem)e have gotten rid of about 75% of the original heat, and eliminated the boiling gas issue for me. And the ECM update (Bulletin 2013-9), which enriched the mixture at idle and slow speeds, has helped some too when you are in slow moving situations. As this thread title implies, the cat bypass is just another step in the process. I won't know now until next summer how effective it has been.

I entirely agree with you that where you live makes a big difference. I have been closely monitoring the heat threads on this forum, and with few exceptions, it seems that those with the largest complaints - even with boiling gas and overflowing canisters - live in the southern states where the temperature gets hotter and stays hotter longer.

Just curious to know, Jack, how that conversation went. http://www.robmorgan.net/img-sm/confused.png

Talked to Danny Davey--after sale service for BRP. As you might guess BRP is not going to commit to anything unless they have to. Two recalls from BRP already and they are working still for a fix. They are obviously trying to address the problem but how is anyones guess. Major problem is they put the wrong engine in the wrong frame. You are aware that the 2013 has the newly designed frame for the 1330 engine in the 14. Tolerances and exhaust are not compatable thus the heat problems in the 2013. They continue to make the "Mickey Mouse" band aid fixes that are not doing any of us in the warmer climes any good.

Jack

[stormtrooper]

Not new to Spyders but new to a RT Spyder.Is this cat by pass something that I will want to put on my wish list (2014 RT-S) or is this cat by pass more for the 2013 RT's? Thanks :yes:

[jcthorne]

The difference is the newly designed frame for the 14's that they used in the 13's with the 998 engine. The frame was not designed to work with the 998. The tolerances are different and the add on mounts to adapt the 14 frame to the 13 engine (998)
puts the exhaust including the CAT in or around the tupperware. The exhaust on the 998 flows around and down the engine, then through the CAT, back over to the exhaust pipe and then the muffler. On the 1330 the exhaust goes strait down and out, back to the exposed CAT then the muffler. Thus avoiding all the exhaust piping and CAT inside the cowling or tupperware. WRONG FRAME FOR WRONG ENGINE.

Jack


Mostly correct except its NOT a 2013 design issue. ITS EXACTLY THE SAME on 2010 thru 2012 RT models. The new frame changed NOTHING with the exhaust routing that has any material change on the under hood heat. Oh, and the cat is not inside the tupperware, its under the bike exposed to air flow. Same place as on the 2014 by the way.

And to say it was not designed to work with the 998 engine when there are literally thousands of them on the road is way off base. Of course it was designed to work with the 998 engine, compromise design perhaps but the over all design just has air flow problems that cause heat build up.

Its not a fundamentally wrong design, it just needs some tweaks to fix some issues. Sure the 14 is better, that does not make the prior designs wrong. Now if they would just get off their arse and do so. BRP is not going to give you a 2014 nor replace engines on 2013s. If we are VERY LUCKY they will design some new body panels to add air flow like they did for the ST. Its not likely they are going to do much more than that. They are not going to buy them back.

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: What he said... :agree:

They did change the left-side lower body panel once for the RTs; it should be easy enough for them to do it again. :thumbup:

[jaherbst]

Mostly correct except its NOT a 2013 design issue. ITS EXACTLY THE SAME on 2010 thru 2012 RT models. The new frame changed NOTHING with the exhaust routing that has any material change on the under hood heat. Oh, and the cat is not inside the tupperware, its under the bike exposed to air flow. Same place as on the 2014 by the way.

And to say it was not designed to work with the 998 engine when there are literally thousands of them on the road is way off base. Of course it was designed to work with the 998 engine, compromise design perhaps but the over all design just has air flow problems that cause heat build up.

Its not a fundamentally wrong design, it just needs some tweaks to fix some issues. Sure the 14 is better, that does not make the prior designs wrong. Now if they would just get off their arse and do so. BRP is not going to give you a 2014 nor replace engines on 2013s. If we are VERY LUCKY they will design some new body panels to add air flow like they did for the ST. Its not likely they are going to do much more than that. They are not going to buy them back.

We each have our own opinions on this matter. I will have more to say in two weeks but unable at this time.

FYI after fact mounts were placed (welded) on the new frame to accommodate the 998 engine and 5 spd transmission. Engine does not sit in the frame as the 2010-2012 thus limiting the air flow around the engine and exhaust.

Jack

[jaherbst]

:agree: Are they mailing you a 1130?? :dontknow: :bbq::bbq::bbq:




What is an 1130 Bob?

Jack

[jcthorne]

We each have our own opinions on this matter. I will have more to say in two weeks but unable at this time.

FYI after fact mounts were placed (welded) on the new frame to accommodate the 998 engine and 5 spd transmission. Engine does not sit in the frame as the 2010-2012 thus limiting the air flow around the engine and exhaust.

Jack


I think we are actually agreeing more than you think. Your point about the frame changes limiting air flow are spot on. I was just trying to confirm the the exhaust routing was not new and different in 2013. The lesser air flow in 2013 made the hot exhaust more of an issue. But there are better ways of increasing air flow on the existing bike that replacing the engine.

I hope BRP does come up with some fixes. They will add to what I have already done. I cannot afford to take the loss and buy two new RTs. We will ride and enjoy the ones we have. I am out money and time to fix but its the best we can do with the situation. The other alternative is to not ride. We enjoy the bikes too much for that.

If your way out is some sort of legal action or lemon law claim, more power to you. I am not going to involve lawyers to drive up my blood pressure and lemon law would not help in Texas.

If the heat ends up causing damage or a fire, that's what warranties and insurance are for. Until then, we enjoy them as best we are able.

[Magdave]

We each have our own opinions on this matter. I will have more to say in two weeks but unable at this time.

FYI after fact mounts were placed (welded) on the new frame to accommodate the 998 engine and 5 spd transmission. Engine does not sit in the frame as the 2010-2012 thus limiting the air flow around the engine and exhaust.

Jack

:popcorn: I agree whole heartedly with your thoughts. The truth is the 2013 was SUPPOSED to have the 1330 in it but engine development was slow so they had to come up with a "quick fix" for the 13 to use the 998. They refuse to acknowledge it nor do anything to really fix the issues they created with their Frankinbike up to this point. I am keeping my fingers crossed for them to figure out a REAL solution even if it means a BMW buy back. It should be their loss not mine. :shocked: I await your "2 week" report.:thumbup:

[jaherbst]

I think we are actually agreeing more than you think. Your point about the frame changes limiting air flow are spot on. I was just trying to confirm the the exhaust routing was not new and different in 2013. The lesser air flow in 2013 made the hot exhaust more of an issue. But there are better ways of increasing air flow on the existing bike that replacing the engine.

I hope BRP does come up with some fixes. They will add to what I have already done. I cannot afford to take the loss and buy two new RTs. We will ride and enjoy the ones we have. I am out money and time to fix but its the best we can do with the situation. The other alternative is to not ride. We enjoy the bikes too much for that.

If your way out is some sort of legal action or lemon law claim, more power to you. I am not going to involve lawyers to drive up my blood pressure and lemon law would not help in Texas.

If the heat ends up causing damage or a fire, that's what warranties and insurance are for. Until then, we enjoy them as best we are able.

No lawyers or lemon law. Sorry I am unable to say more. BRP is actually trying but falls short with their small "band Aid" fixes. More airflow inside the tupperware and around the Fuel tank would fix the problem. I could figure that out without even tapping into my engineering license. Air Scoops or Fan inside the tupperware forcing airflow past engine and fuel tank to exit rear is what is needed.

Jack

[jaherbst]

:popcorn: I agree whole heartedly with your thoughts. The truth is the 2013 was SUPPOSED to have the 1330 in it but engine development was slow so they had to come up with a "quick fix" for the 13 to use the 998. They refuse to acknowledge it nor do anything to really fix the issues they created with their Frankinbike up to this point. I am keeping my fingers crossed for them to figure out a REAL solution even if it means a BMW buy back. It should be their loss not mine. :shocked: I await your "2 week" report.:thumbup:

That is exactly what happened. Welded on some after thought engine mounts for the 998 (which is obviously not compatable) when they found out the 1330 engine was not ready. 998's were readily available and here we are one year later spending thousands of dollars to get our Spiders to run cooler with little help from BRP. Try to trade the 2013 in here in the SW and your in for an incredible reverse sticker shock. I have tried seven different dealers. Two recalls later "Mickey Mouse" "Band Aid" cheep fixes that did not work. I removed CAT also, bought full sheepskin seat for heat and now working on a third fix.

The fix that will work will take a few dollars and BRP does not want to step up to the plate yet. It will probably cost someone a life to get them off center as most things do. I am very concerned about my future health breathing strong gas fumes every time I ride. One thing not mentioned is heat destroys hoses, plastic parts, engines and transmissions. What else is the excessive heat destroying! When will these things rear there ugly heads. Things to think about. eh

Jack

[jcthorne]

No lawyers or lemon law. Sorry I am unable to say more. BRP is actually trying but falls short with their small "band Aid" fixes. More airflow inside the tupperware and around the Fuel tank would fix the problem. I could figure that out without even tapping into my engineering license. Air Scoops or Fan inside the tupperware forcing airflow past engine and fuel tank to exit rear is what is needed.

Jack


Agree, a well engineered air flow system as you describe would absolutely fix the ailments.

[stormtrooper]

I asked earlier in this thread.Is this a 2013 RT issue or will I be doing this cat by pass to my 2014 RT ?

[bmccaffrey]

Every one needs to learn to play together and be nice. Everyone has opinions and respect them for that and not get defensive. But brp has issues with the 13. Probably will get resolved 18 or 20if 🍀.
My opinion and that's all it is do not throw me under the bus the cat is too big. Like a boiler not a wood stove to much metal. The more metal the more to heat up and more heat to get rid of. Heat rises cold settles.
EVERYONE have a good night :yes:

[jcthorne]

I asked earlier in this thread.Is this a 2013 RT issue or will I be doing this cat by pass to my 2014 RT ?

The cat bypass offers less heat under the seat and lower legs (especially for the passenger) better performance and a better sounding exhaust.

These benefits apply pretty much equally to both 2013 and prior as they do for the 2014. Deciding if you desire any of those things is your choice.

[Bob Denman]

For the Record: my 2014 has shown NO tendancy whatsoever, to roast the rider or passenger with underseat heat... ;)
For the 2014s; I think that it's more a question of "want", than it is "need"...

...just sayin'...

[robmorg]

For the Record: my 2014 has shown NO tendancy whatsoever, to roast the rider or passenger with underseat heat... ;)
For the 2014s; I think that it's more a question of "want", than it is "need"...

...just sayin'...

:agree: I cannot attest to how much heat is generated on the 2014 models by the catalytic converter, but I generally agree with that you said. I have seen other threads here where 2014 owners have been asked why they are installing the cat bypass, but I've never seen an answer being offered. The torque gain is reported as minimal, and the 1330 engine already has plenty of torque in the lower range, does it not? The sound may deepen slightly, but unless you also replace the stock muffler, the sound will not change significantly, from what I've been told.

It would not appear that you can justify doing the cat bypass on a Spyder with the 1330 engine from the standpoint of "need". I certainly wouldn't be eliminating the cat on my 2013 RT, if it were not for the heat issue. ...not that there is anything necessarily wrong with buying something just because you "want it". ;)

[Bob Denman]

:D Folks just WANT to do it: COOL! :2thumbs:

[HIspyder]

Do a Google search: removing emission control systems

I guess I'm missing the point why anyone would want to risk fines and penalties over a minimal gain in performance, if any at all.

Speaking as a former auto tech, working in the state of California, who also held a smog certification license, there is no real power gained by removing a catalytic converter unless it's plugged/restricted in some way. Environmentally it makes no sense at all to me. Mine will stay on.


Just my opinion.

[jcthorne]

Mine reduced heat under the bike significantly. Also the performance gain was VERY noticeable, not subtle. Also, even with the stock muffler, it sounds much better. I had thought quite a bit about an aftermarket exhaust on the RT as it was just too quiet. Louise and I have no desire for aftermarket exhaust now, they sound MUCH better, but this is on a Vtwin.

Never really liked the sound of the triple with the opened up exhaust, just sounds strange to me.

There are no emissions inspections on motorcycles.

[wolfeman220940]

Central Florida PowerSports did a CAT bypass and they show the difference in temps with a RT-S. Here is the video of it. I do not know how to link it to the page.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwvy3xdefns

Who is selling these? I need for summer time riding in Deep south texas.

[Magdave]

Central Florida PowerSports did a CAT bypass and they show the difference in temps with a RT-S. Here is the video of it. I do not know how to link it to the page.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwvy3xdefns

Who is selling these? I need for summer time riding in Deep south texas.

Dang tha tis the first proof I have seen of the temp difference. I wish it had been shown on a 2013 :banghead:

[Dragonfly]

On the 13s one should still wrap the y and header pipes as well as possible to really make a difference in the summer heat. My glove box went from 135F down t below 100F and this at an abient temperature of 85F.

[jaherbst]

Dang tha tis the first proof I have seen of the temp difference. I wish it had been shown on a 2013 :banghead:

I would bet the 2013 temps (both with and without CAT) would be significantly higher. Still impressive as to the difference. Did like the sound with the ACK but would like to hear it on the 2013.

FYI jcthorne emission testing is still done to M/C in parts of AZ and CA. Depends on County you live in.

Jack

[j-mak]

what does the by-pass do to the 2014 rt with the 1330 motor

[Bob Denman]

It makes it SOUND better... :D
Seriously; it does remove a large source of heat from the bike...
But is it absolutely necessary to do tis? :dontknow:

[DJFaninTN]

I would bet the 2013 temps (both with and without CAT) would be significantly higher. Still impressive as to the difference. Did like the sound with the ACK but would like to hear it on the 2013.

FYI jcthorne emission testing is still done to M/C in parts of AZ and CA. Depends on County you live in.

Jack


Will see if PittBull has a temp gun next Thursday if I get a cat bypass done on my 13RT. Should be interesting to see the difference Will try to get a video of the results.

[Magdave]

Will see if PittBull has a temp gun next Thursday if I get a cat bypass done on my 13RT. Should be interesting to see the difference Will try to get a video of the results.

:popcorn::thumbup:

[robmorg]

Will see if PittBull has a temp gun next Thursday if I get a cat bypass done on my 13RT. Should be interesting to see the difference Will try to get a video of the results.I'll ask that question of my dealer also. I'm due to have my new pipe installed on mine in a few weeks.

For me, removing the cat is all about reducing heat. Since I have a 2013 RT, I consider that an important safety issue - not just a comfort issue. Any other advantages will be icing on the cake. To counter act my Spyder adding more greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, I intend to make a concerted effort to eat more beef. One or two less farting cows on the planet should more than make up for the effect of my Spyder after the bypass is installed.

[jaherbst]

I'll ask that question of my dealer also. I'm due to have my new pipe installed on mine in a few weeks.

For me, removing the cat is all about reducing heat. Since I have a 2013 RT, I consider that an important safety issue - not just a comfort issue. Any other advantages will be icing on the cake. To counter act my Spyder adding more greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, I intend to make a concerted effort to eat more beef. One or two less farting cows on the planet should more than make up for the effect of my Spyder after the bypass is installed.

Too--Shea robmorg!

[mob133]

this is probably very true but by myself only having had a 2012 I wont comment there, however even on the old frame the issue still remains ,I have wrapped pipes ,added cat bypass also wrapped,and still dealt with boiling gas ,and fuel smells, there simply isn't enough air flow through engine compartment the heat from the motor alone is to much ,and when shut down the heat soak is so great you could restart to circulate water and run fan 3-4times to help lower this condition.
The difference is the newly designed frame for the 14's that they used in the 13's with the 998 engine. The frame was not designed to work with the 998. The tolerances are different and the add on mounts to adapt the 14 frame to the 13 engine (998)
puts the exhaust including the CAT in or around the tupperware. The exhaust on the 998 flows around and down the engine, then through the CAT, back over to the exhaust pipe and then the muffler. On the 1330 the exhaust goes strait down and out, back to the exposed CAT then the muffler. Thus avoiding all the exhaust piping and CAT inside the cowling or tupperware. WRONG FRAME FOR WRONG ENGINE.

Jack

[DJFaninTN]

this is probably very true but by myself only having had a 2012 I wont comment there, however even on the old frame the issue still remains ,I have wrapped pipes ,added cat bypass also wrapped,and still dealt with boiling gas ,and fuel smells, there simply isn't enough air flow through engine compartment the heat from the motor alone is to much ,and when shut down the heat soak is so great you could restart to circulate water and run fan 3-4times to help lower this condition.


I'd be looking at adding JT's air filter replacement. you wouldn't believe the amount of space it opens up dumping that big old air box. :thumbup:

[robmorg]

I'd be looking at adding JT's air filter replacement. you wouldn't believe the amount of space it opens up dumping that big old air box. :thumbup:That's the last thing on my list of things to try, if after I get my cat bypass installed, I'm still not satisfied with the heat level. I hesitate to do that for two reasons. First, I don't think I'd like the sound with that mod installed. Secondly, I'm only one year into a three year warranty, and my dealer told me that if I did that, BRP would likely not honor the warranty on most engine components. I'm hoping that with all the other things I've already done, the elimination of the cat will get the job done for me.

[DJFaninTN]

That's the last thing on my list of things to try, if after I get my cat bypass installed, I'm still not satisfied with the heat level. I hesitate to do that for two reasons. First, I don't think I'd like the sound with that mod installed. Secondly, I'm only one year into a three year warranty, and my dealer told me that if I did that, BRP would likely not honor the warranty on most engine components. I'm hoping that with all the other things I've already done, the elimination of the cat will get the job done for me.


you are not restricting air flow so I don't see how your dealer would say BRP wouldn't honor their warranty. in fact you are giving the bike more air flow. i am only into year one of my four year warranty as well.

as far as sound, yes it is slightly louder but only really when you get on the throttle hard. you get used to it pretty quickly. i think the results far out weight the cost. YMMV

[LJD]

I have a 2014 RS and I'm a big fan of mods and will be doing the cat bypass. I already have the VooDoo twin exhaust and it feels better already. I have ridden on a 100 mile trip and haven't had any heat issues "thank God" :thumbup:. However I will be doing the bypass for the shear feeling of having modded it :doorag:. As far as the warranty is concerned there should be no issue unless the mod that has been performed is in direct fault of whatever may be the issue. To all whom want to mod your ride, like Nike, "Just Do It".

[Bob Denman]

To counter act my Spyder adding more greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, I intend to make a concerted effort to eat more beef. One or two less farting cows on the planet should more than make up for the effect of my Spyder after the bypass is installed.
I like your plan with the Cows... http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_110.gif

About the whole "Greenhouse Gas" thing... :shocked:
I'm certainly no chemist... or much of anything else. :opps:
But if exhaust gas used to be primarily Carbon Monoxide; didn't the converters change a lot of that over to Carbon Di-Oxide: the gas that everybody seems to think is the REALLY bad one? :dontknow:

(Honestly; I don't know, and am just asking)