Corrupt Cops

[dndfindley]

http://tinyurl.com/q528cvm

[Bob Denman]

There's a real easy fix to this... :D

DON'T put yourself in the position of being suspected drug dealer... :2thumbs:

After all; Necromongers get to keep, what they kill! :shocked:

[Oldmanzues]

I have heard about this before. Cops sieze stuff and you have to fight to get it back. Just idea you might be dealing drugs or have some money could get you in the "boat". I suport LEO's, but this "outfit" is getting out of hand. they use your tax dollars to fight you in Court.
I was told one time that I fit a drug runners profile. A common vehicle making a run every two weeks up the interstate. A trip to a town 100 miles away on Fridy, then back home. the same on Sunday A dark blue Dodge Dakota pick up. I was never stopped however. Why Child custody case, taking Grandkids to meet Mother for week end.
Mostly great LEO's, but some bad apples
Oldamnzues

[SPYD3R]

cops in my day were good people... cared about others and the law...
no longer... sad. :lecturef_smilie:

[Dan_Ashley]

This was part of the War on Drugs laws passed a few years back. The cops are doing what our elected representatives have told them to do.

[robmorg]

Come on guys. I don't know anything about "The Verge", but that particular story smacks of sensationalism at it's worst. It reads like it's right out of the pages of the National Enquirer. Just ask yourself, how long a cop would be able to keep his job, in just about any state in the nation, if he routinely absconded money from motorists without finding a shred of hard evidence of drug trafficking.

Read the story in the Washington Post that this writer quotes as his "source". "Source" is far too strong a word in this instance. It's like trying to claim that the recent movie "Noah", with Russel Crowe, that came out early this year accurately depicts the biblical story of Noah from the Old Testament.

[Sempyder]

Come on guys. I don't know anything about "The Verge", but that particular story smacks of sensationalism at it's worst. It reads like it's right out of the pages of the National Enquirer. Just ask yourself, how long a cop would be able to keep his job, in just about any state in the nation, if he routinely absconded money from drivers without finding a shred of hard evidence of drug trafficking.

Read the story in the Washington Post that this writer quotes as his "source". "Source" is far too strong a word in this instance. It's like trying to claim that the recent movie "Noah", with Russel Crowe, that came out early this year accurately depicts the biblical story of Noah from the Old Testament.

Amen!

[C3517C]

Come on guys. I don't know anything about "The Verge", but that particular story smacks of sensationalism at it's worst. It reads like it's right out of the pages of the National Enquirer. Just ask yourself, how long a cop would be able to keep his job, in just about any state in the nation, if he routinely absconded money from motorists without finding a shred of hard evidence of drug trafficking.

Read the story in the Washington Post that this writer quotes as his "source". "Source" is far too strong a word in this instance. It's like trying to claim that the recent movie "Noah", with Russel Crowe, that came out early this year accurately depicts the biblical story of Noah from the Old Testament.

Exactly. I can't believe anyone would afford any sort of credibility to junk like this. More importantly, This is a SPYDER website. It's supposed to be about Spyder related topics. This is a political post and it doesn't belong here.

[OldCowboy]

This is not the first story about this phenomenon. I have seen several in reputable news sources. The scary thing about these seizures is that there is nothing you can do to stop them and YOU have to prove your innocence to get the money back. No innocent until proven guilty.

Last summer I sold my Harley Road Glide to a fellow from out of state. Since I did not know him and there are numerous examples of cashier check fraud, I demanded cold, hard cash. $12,000 dollars. He brought it as 120 $100 dollar bills. Had he been stopped, the cops could have claimed that was drug money and confiscated it. by the way, I used that money to buy my Spyder.

Those of you who want to dismiss this story because it is from The Verge apparently failed to note that the first sentence clearly notes that their information comes from the Washington Post. Here is the article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/07/police-intelligence-targets-cash/

[Bob Denman]

Has anybody actually checked to see if this "secret and encrypted" forum is actually real?

Perhaps Bigfoot is the moderator! :shocked:

[redflasher]

What has this to do with Spyders or motorcycles? Any moderators on this site or anything goes?

[Bob Denman]

It could be moved to "Off-Topic"...
But it's still a point that is free to be discussed. :thumbup:

[robmorg]

Those of you who want to dismiss this story because it is from The Verge apparently failed to note that the first sentence clearly notes that their information comes from the Washington Post. Here is the article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/07/police-intelligence-targets-cash/My point was that two stories are very different. The Washington Post story is journalistic expose' of the Desert Snow and the related Black Asphalt operations. While the journalist obviously takes exceptions to these operations, when you read his story with an open mind you get a very different perspective than you do from the piece in the Verge, which is purely sensationalistic and written for entertainment purposes.

Redflasher is correct, of course. If the OP felt inclined to bring this to our attention at all, he should have done so in the "Off Topic Board", which is designated here for these sorts of discussions.

[wyliec]

It could be moved to "Off-Topic"...
But it's still a point that is free to be discussed. :thumbup:

It should be moved to Off Topic, so we can discuss more; I find it interesting.

I going to check if someone I know is a member of Black Asphalt or if he knows someone that is.

[Bob Denman]

:2thumbs: Please let us know what you find out! :thumbup:

[dndfindley]

This was part of the War on Drugs laws passed a few years back. The cops are doing what our elected representatives have told them to do.

The "I was just following orders" thingy didn't work out too well for Nazi concentration guards did it? Makes no difference what your elected representatives tell them to do - it it's wrong you don't have to do it. If you are a good moral person you will refuse to do wrong. What does this say about this bunch who laugh and brag about what they did?

[dndfindley]

Exactly. I can't believe anyone would afford any sort of credibility to junk like this. More importantly, This is a SPYDER website. It's supposed to be about Spyder related topics. This is a political post and it doesn't belong here.

Wrong. As Spyder riders we come into contact with law enforcement types daily. This piece is a warning that all police are to be viewed with suspicion, especially on traffic stops.

[wyliec]

:2thumbs: Please let us know what you find out! :thumbup:

On first go around, just mentioning the names, he knows nothing. So, I linked the Washington Post article for him to read.

[Bob Denman]

:2thumbs: Sometimes; it's a lot of fun having, "sources"... :D

[wyliec]

:2thumbs: Please let us know what you find out! :thumbup:


On first go around, just mentioning the names, he knows nothing. So, I linked the Washington Post article for him to read.

He's on duty today, and my daughter sent him the article. He'll probably show it to his buddies too.

[bscrive]

I have heard about this happening in the US a couple of years ago. One poor guy got stopped in Texas with cash that he was going to use to buy a car and a gravestone car for his dying aunt. The cops seized $10000 from him and he had to get a lawyer to get it back. He did get the money back and sued them for more I believe.
This is nothing new and I think has been getting worst because the cops get to keep a large portion of it if the money is not claimed. With their budgets getting slashed more and more they see this as an income stream for them.

[SPYD3R]

Wrong. As Spyder riders we come into contact with law enforcement types daily. This piece is a warning that all police are to be viewed with suspicion, especially on traffic stops.

BINGO.... :clap:

[Bob Denman]

I don't care much for the, "presumption of guilt"... :shocked:

[robmorg]

The "I was just following orders" thingy didn't work out too well for Nazi concentration guards did it? Makes no difference what your elected representatives tell them to do - it it's wrong you don't have to do it. If you are a good moral person you will refuse to do wrong. What does this say about this bunch who laugh and brag about what they did?

...As Spyder riders we come into contact with law enforcement types daily. This piece is a warning that all police are to be viewed with suspicion, especially on traffic stops.Wow!! You really think that all law enforcement offices are to be viewed with suspicion??? What an extraordinary point of view.

Police officers, by nature, are not usually humble people. And I will admit that there may be a few who operate at the outer fringes of the law, as the Washington Post story claims. There always have been and there probably always will be. But I surely wouldn't want to live in a place that didn't have them around. Nor would I want to live in a society that considers folks who risk their lives to stop drug traffickers from hurting children by putting drugs on the street to satisfy their own greed, as "immoral". Seems to me that point of view is a bit backwards. And if some cops want to brag a little on a restricted police web site about how much contraband and drug money they took off the street, well it may not seem like the "gentlemanly" thing to do, but I'm just not going to get all that upset about it.

[Bob Denman]

:agree: It takes a particular type of personality, to be able to jump into a situation, and take charge in about two seconds... :clap: :2thumbs:

[jaherbst]

:agree: It takes a particular type of personality, to be able to jump into a situation, and take charge in about two seconds... :clap: :2thumbs:
Yes and that is not the type of personality I prefer. That particular personality has a need for control right or wrong and usually over reacts. SWAT teams to take someone barricaded in their own home accompanied by armored vehicles, 50 officers, stun bombs, military equipment etc. In most cases it ends in a useless death because of the "personality".



If you ever had to deal with them on a personal serious basis you may see it differently.

Jack

[hulksdaddy]

There's a real easy fix to this... :D

DON'T put yourself in the position of being suspected drug dealer... :2thumbs:

After all; Necromongers get to keep, what they kill! :shocked:

Loved that movie! :thumbup:

[Oldmanzues]

Yes and that is not the type of personality I prefer. That particular personality has a need for control right or wrong and usually over reacts. SWAT teams to take someone barricaded in their own home accompanied by armored vehicles, 50 officers, stun bombs, military equipment etc. In most cases it ends in a useless death because of the "personality".



If you ever had to deal with them on a personal serious basis you may see it differently.

Jack

I have.

Most LEO are decent, nice men and women doing a needed job. A few are bad. It is departments more the inviduals doing the sieze money deals. The just disaobeying a order you feel is wrong, is a lot easyer to say then do. Are you totaly right ? Can you be fired or jailed for not doing it. Are you willing to go homeless after you are fired or jailed. You get the idea.
Oldmanzues

[mtdoragary]

There's corruption in everything. It's human nature. The large majority of LEO's are dedicated honest professionals. If you REALLY want to see large-scale corruption, look to unions and government!

[Oldmanzues]

Interesting item on AOL, right now, Same subject
Oldmanzues

[Dan_Ashley]

Has anybody actually checked to see if this "secret and encrypted" forum is actually real?

Perhaps Bigfoot is the moderator! :shocked:I tried to find it. I failed.

[C3517C]

Wrong. As Spyder riders we come into contact with law enforcement types daily. This piece is a warning that all police are to be viewed with suspicion, especially on traffic stops.

Well there's the weak excuse I was certain was coming my way. "As Spyder riders we come into contact with law enforcement daily" ( so here's some highly insightful intelligence I've assembled to warn other Spyder riders about "corrupt cops"). Really, gee thanks.

Why not tell the truth, that would look like this. "I came across an article on the internet about why we should hate the police. Since I hate them also, I'll regurgitate it onto the internet to spread it around. Since I have no forum of my own, I'll slap it onto Spyderlovers and call it Corrupt Cops.

Well Thank You Sir for your investigative prowess, savvy legal skills, and shrewd intuition ! We'll all sleep better tonight knowing you are on the job to protect us from those sinister cops. I'm sure the local drug dealers will also be happy to know your out here doing their bidding, and keeping their business flowing without those cumbersome interruptions.

[Bob Denman]

...And that forum; hasn't been found...
Does it even exist?? :dontknow:

So If I were to post something like, "There's a secret and encrypted forum, down near D.C.n and it's recruiting members to try and discredit Law Enforcement Officers everywhere"; what would you say about it?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Don't condemn all police for the actions of a few but do deal with the few very harshly. Take their pensions, jail time,
fines equal to several years salary, permanent criminal record so as never to get another city or state job. If they
want to ruin our lives then that is what they deserve. If their union wants to defend them the let their union pay
the fines.

[robmorg]

...And that forum; hasn't been found...
Does it even exist?? :dontknow:
Bob, you have to read the Washington Post article for the details. (That Verge story is just worthless hype.) The Black Asphalt website is associated with the Desert Snow project. The article says that the forum and database website was supported by a sheriff's office in Oklahoma. Apparently, the support function has recently been transferred to another sheriffs office - Kane County, Illinois. Membership is only open to law enforcement people for obvious reasons. ( You wouldn't want drug traffickers to have access to the database.) See the link in the upper right section of this page... https://blackasphalt.org (https://blackasphalt.org)

According to the Washington Post story, Desert Snow is a legitimate operation that has been providing criminal and terrorist interdiction training to local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies for almost 25 years.

[bikeguy]

Are there corrupt cops around? I'm sure there are but I'm sure that the vast majority are honest folks who do a good job trying to keep us safe from the folks who aren't so honest and trustworthy. I know that the LEO's that I'm personally aquainted with are all fine people. But, to me, that's not the point of this thread. The point is that laws exist that allow personal property to be confiscated without any charges whatsoever. I expect that most of us have read articles in our own local newspapers where money, cars, boats, airplanes, and even real property have been confiscated by law enforcement agencies and no charges were ever filed against those from whom the property was confiscated. All that was needed was the suspicion that drug related activity was involved. Note that I said the property was confiscated by law enforcement agencies, not individual officers. There's no corruption involved. The property does not enrich the officers involved though it may be used/sold by the agencies to pay for more enforcement efforts.

But there's no need for me to worry about this activity is there? After all, I don't use drugs, never have, never will, and certainly am not involved in manufacturing, growing, transporting or selling them. Why should I worry?

Well, how about this? I just checked my billfold and I had three one hundred dollar bills in it. I don't always have a hundred dollar bill, though I try to keep a couple in case I need them but there have been times when, as someone mentioned earlier, that I've carried quite a few. Like going to buy a used Ford Excursion from someone who wouldn't accept anything but cash. I carried 110 one hundred dollar bills. Just the fact that I was carrying $11,000 in cash makes me a drug suspect and subject to having the money confiscated but take it a step further. Druggies don't write many checks, they deal in cash. What's the chance that one of those hundred dollar bills has been in a drug dealer's possession? And what's the chance that a drug sniffing dog would smell some kind of drug on it? For that matter, what's the chance that one of the three I'm carrying right now has been in contact with drugs? I don't know what the odds are but even 10 to 1 is too big a chance and I think, at least where I live, that the chance is greater than that. I don't worry at all about corrupt police officers. I think there are very few of them but I am genuinely concerned about laws that allow property to be confiscated without legal charges.

Cotton

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Bikeguy, i agree with you but i do worry about bad cops, i have run into 2 in my 35 years of driving that have asked for bribes unfortunately it was when i was under 20 & at that age you don't press charges against a cop when it is
your word against his.
Nowadays i just run into the stupid ones every so often or the ones with the god complex. I do agree most are
good people, neighbors, friends & customers. i have one that has come to my store on call several times, i don't say
he is dirty but he is lazy and has a very serious attitude problem, enough so that i had to file a restraining order
against him stepping foot on my property except in emergency.
Every month we hear about on the news that someone who spent the last 20 or 30 years of their life in jail & dna
proves they are innocent. The arresting dt's usually have lied about circumstances surrounding the arrest and
interrogation. Those officers are the most heinous ones that can exist, to destroy someones life to protect the
mistakes they have made.
These cops are few and far between but they do exist and must be dealt with harshly when caught.

[missouriboy]

...Druggies don't write many checks, they deal in cash. What's the chance that one of (my) hundred dollar bills has been in a drug dealer's possession? And what's the chance that a drug sniffing dog would smell some kind of drug on it? For that matter, what's the chance that one of the three I'm carrying right now has been in contact with drugs? I don't know what the odds are but even 10 to 1 is too big a chance and I think, at least where I live, that the chance is greater than that. I don't worry at all about corrupt police officers. I think there are very few of them but I am genuinely concerned about laws that allow property to be confiscated without legal charges.

Cotton
I agree with you that property forfeiture without criminal charge is a deplorable mis-justice in our current legal system, but that's another topic.

Your concern about the tainted bills is not a worry any more, however. I can't cite any proof, but I know I once read where the courts have thrown out the use of tainted cash as evidence of criminal activity by the person carrying it. For once, they did the right and reasonable thing, by ruling that "currency circulates," therefore it's inadmissible as evidence of drug-dealing. You could have obtained it from an ATM five minutes before becoming suspected, right? So, not to worry about sniffed-out cash. Just don't be caught with any actual "drug paraphernalia" because that's what would be admissible evidence, not just the cash alone.

[Bob Denman]

So, not to worry about sniffed-out cash. Just don't be caught with any actual "drug paraphernalia" because that's what would be admissible evidence, not just the cash alone.

:agree: Live your life right, and you'll never have a prblem with Law-Enforcement folks! :2thumbs:

[robmorg]

Well, how about this? I just checked my billfold and I had three one hundred dollar bills in it. I don't always have a hundred dollar bill, though I try to keep a couple in case I need them but there have been times when, as someone mentioned earlier, that I've carried quite a few. Like going to buy a used Ford Excursion from someone who wouldn't accept anything but cash. I carried 110 one hundred dollar bills. Just the fact that I was carrying $11,000 in cash makes me a drug suspect and subject to having the money confiscated. ...I am genuinely concerned about laws that allow property to be confiscated without legal charges.

Cotton

Unless it's a cop that's stealing money for personal gain (and it's hard to imagine that), then I don't see the concern about money being confiscated with absolutely no evidence of contraband. Not even the Washington Post expose' story said that was happening. If they find drug related contraband in your car, then you'll probably lose your cash too, even BEFORE you get charged. It's a reasonable way to get drug money off the street.

I agree with Bob. No one is going to be confiscating cash unless there is a reasonable suspicion that you are trafficking or selling drugs. And in order to have a reasonable suspicion, they would have to find something besides the cash itself.

Now, if you have a friend, who thinks it would be a fun to stash a kilo of coke, or a package of marijuana in your trunk when you're not looking, ...well then you may have a problem. :(

[bikeguy]

The point (of this thread) is that laws exist that allow personal property to be confiscated without any charges whatsoever. I expect that most of us have read articles in our own local newspapers where money, cars, boats, airplanes, and even real property have been confiscated by law enforcement agencies and no charges were ever filed against those from whom the property was confiscated. All that was needed was the suspicion that drug related activity was involved.

Cotton


A few forays above the posted speed limit and maybe being a day or two late returning a book to the public library is about the extent of my prior criminal activity. I'm 76 years old, white, and, besides my Spyder, drive an 11 year old ford Taurus and a 12 year old Ford Excursion so I'm about as far from a drug dealer's profile as I can get. Most of us fit in that category so it's easy for us to ignore the fact that laws exist that allow personal property to be confiscated merely on the suspicion of illegal drug activity. But that doesn't mean that we should ignore them. For one thing, the fact that it isn't likely to affect us doesn't make it right. And beyond that is the fact that the government, at all levels, always needs more resources. Confiscated property is a way to acquire resources without taxes increasing. Right now druggies have lots of resources for the government to confiscate. That may not always be the case. We may be next.

Missouriboy, I wasn't aware that drug tainted money had pretty much been dismissed in court and I'm glad to hear that, however, remember that the property confiscation we're talking about here happens without any charges having been filed. Courts would only be involved if the injured party attempts to recover the property. The dismissal of any tainted money evidence might result in the property being returned but the injured party is still out the expense of lawyers and taking the case to court.

Cotton

[Gray Ghost]

:agree: Live your life right, and you'll never have a prblem with Law-Enforcement folks! :2thumbs:

You may want to do a bit more research on that. 90 year old lady in Atlanta shot by cops because an informant had given up her address as being a drug place. No knock warrant and an innocent old lady was killed as a result. That was bad enough but then the cops attempted to cover it up by slandering her name and character.

Cop searching for a kid that is supposedly missing enters the backyard of an unrelated family (w/o permission or warrant) and shoots the family pet. Kid was found at home.

Officers conduct a no knock raid on the home of a former Marine. He was on his way to investigate the people around his house with his rifle when the deputies barge in. One trips and triggers a round. The rest assume that the homeowner is firing and shoot him down. IIRC he was hit over 70 times. His rifle had not been fired and in fact was on safe. They were actually looking for a relative who didn't live in the house.

A swat team from department of education (why do they need a swat team) breaks into a home on a no knock warrant terrorizing the man and his children. They were looking for his ex-wife who had defaulted on student loans.

But I guess they all deserved it.

[Bob Denman]

You may want to do a bit more research on that. 90 year old lady in Atlanta shot by cops because an informant had given up her address as being a drug place. No knock warrant and an innocent old lady was killed as a result. That was bad enough but then the cops attempted to cover it up by slandering her name and character.

Cop searching for a kid that is supposedly missing enters the backyard of an unrelated family (w/o permission or warrant) and shoots the family pet. Kid was found at home.

Officers conduct a no knock raid on the home of a former Marine. He was on his way to investigate the people around his house with his rifle when the deputies barge in. One trips and triggers a round. The rest assume that the homeowner is firing and shoot him down. IIRC he was hit over 70 times. His rifle had not been fired and in fact was on safe. They were actually looking for a relative who didn't live in the house.

A swat team from department of education (why do they need a swat team) breaks into a home on a no knock warrant terrorizing the man and his children. They were looking for his ex-wife who had defaulted on student loans.

But I guess they all deserved it.
I'll stand by my statement...
Lightning, and Bee Stings; kill innocent people every year also. :shocked:

[robmorg]

You may want to do a bit more research on that.... A swat team from department of education (why do they need a swat team) breaks into a home on a no knock warrant terrorizing the man and his children. They were looking for his ex-wife who had defaulted on student loans.You may want to check your sources on some of these. I'm familiar with that last story. It came from the "Cato at Liberty" blog, published by the CATO Institute, a well known radical civil liberties organisation. If, in fact, it's based on truth, the truth is likely slanted with implications to support their ideological mindset, just as the Verge did with the Washington Post piece that started this thread. I believe there are "more reliable" internet news sources than the National Review, the Verge, and the CATO at Liberty blog.

As we all know... "You cannot believe everything you read on the internet" (a quote attributed on the internet originally to Thomas Jefferson). Here is a famous photo of Adolf Hitler with his iPhone (perhaps taking a selfie). When the poster was accused of posting a picture that had been photoshopped, his reply was, "Thats rediculous! There WAS no Photoshop back in Hitler's time." :sour:


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NDb9jIeyEx8/UFakROeqCII/AAAAAAAASEk/ICk0yMUWdv0/s1600/%5BFun+Video%5D+Hitler's+reaction+after+Apple+laun ched+the+iPhone+5.jpg

[Bob Denman]

:roflblack:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bufTna0WArc

[Gray Ghost]

You may want to check your sources on some of these. I'm familiar with that story. It came from the "Cato at Liberty" blog, published by the CATO Institute, a well known radical civil liberties organisation. If, in fact, it's based on truth, the truth is likely slanted with implications to support their ideological mindset, just as the Verge did with the Washington Post piece that started this thread. I believe there are "more reliable" internet news sources than the National Review, the Verge, and the CATO at Liberty blog.

I was in Atlanta when the lady was murdered by police officers. I remember the coverage back and forth on what are considered reputable news sources. If you do a search on no-knock warrants you can find several cases where the process resulted in the injury or death of innocent people or destruction of property where no evidence of crime was found.

A simple search on asset forfeiture will also reveal that it is often used in questionable situations and results in severe hardship for citizens trying to recover their property from police departments that use the tactic to gain funds.

If anyone wants to believe that all those folks had it coming that is their right. I, however, am mighty fond of the rights the Constitution says we have and am concerned that too often they are being ignored.

[robmorg]

I was in Atlanta when the lady was murdered by police officers. I remember the coverage back and forth on what are considered reputable news sources. If you do a search on no-knock warrants you can find several cases where the process resulted in the injury or death of innocent people or destruction of property where no evidence of crime was found.

A simple search on asset forfeiture will also reveal that it is often used in questionable situations and results in severe hardship for citizens trying to recover their property from police departments that use the tactic to gain funds.
Cliff, I'll concede all of that. "Bad stuff" happens. But you cannot say that these kinds of instances are not rare exceptions to the hundreds of thousands of legitimate police interventions that occur every year in our country. Nor could anyone reasonably argue against the fact that there are numerous so called internet "news sources" who take advantage of these rare instances to promote their own ideology with slanted versions of such incidents.

I also agree with your statement about how certain agencies today can often be guilty of violating the rights of the public that are guaranteed by the Constitution.

[SPYD3R]

http://news.yahoo.com/super-tough-cops-down-70-pound-high-school-120408100.html

[Bob Denman]

She violated her School's policy regarding cellphone usage... :dontknow:
Did she THINK that it didn't apply to her? :gaah:

[mtdoragary]

I'll stand by my statement...
Lightning, and Bee Stings; kill innocent people every year also. :shocked:
I agree. When I was in the juke box business 50 years ago, I was run out by a Mafia run operator.. But that doesn't make all businessmen mafioso.

[Dan_Ashley]

There are about 1.3 million law enforcement officers in the US. Of these about 250,000 are employed by the Federal government. No work force that large, anywhere in the world, can exist without a few "bad apples." Similarly, out of 1.3 million people you will find some truly outstanding individuals.

Most large law enforcement agencies work very hard to eliminate the bad ones--before they even get started. For example, the Los Angeles Police Department has very strict recruitment practices. They hire only 1/4% of the original applicants. Of those 50% bust out of the academy. To be an LAPD officer you must attend the LAPD academy. So if Los Angeles needs 100 new officers, it must get (100/.0025)/.5)=80,000 accepted applications. For an application to be accepted you must be physically fit and pass a psychological test. Further physical and psychological assessment comes later--what is mentioned here is only the testing to get an application accepted for consideration.

LAPD has 10,000 police officers. Out of 10,000 employees you are going to have a few go bad, and a few become stars. The LAPD academy lasts almost six months, and 50% of the recruits do not have the combination of mental skills to make it through. After that there is an additional 18 month probationary period where the rookie can be fired for any reason at all.

interestingly the bad cops, making bad decisions, and using bad judgement, get most of the press coverage. Why? Because sensationalism sells papers. A story about someone who is entrusted by the citizenry to be good, just, and strong, is sensational when that person does some wicked thing. The stories about the lives police save, just in the day-to-day activities, and the good they do seldom get reported.

I am guilty of feeding that media monster, like everyone else. I would rather read about some rogue cop getting caught at something wicked, than read a story about an officer who took down a man who has both a gun and a psychotic break, or a story about how an officer prevented an elderly widow from investing her retirement savings into some "Nigerian" scheme.

If you think being an officer is easy, or that most cops are corrupt, then you should get involved either as a professional law enforcement officer, or as a volunteer. That is the only way you can improve things. After all, throwing spit wads on a motor cycle forum won't do any good...

[Bob Denman]

And that's how it is in here...
The BAD press; always gets the MOST attention. :shocked:

[dndfindley]

:agree: Live your life right, and you'll never have a prblem with Law-Enforcement folks! :2thumbs:

How naïve.

[dndfindley]

You may want to do a bit more research on that. 90 year old lady in Atlanta shot by cops because an informant had given up her address as being a drug place. No knock warrant and an innocent old lady was killed as a result. That was bad enough but then the cops attempted to cover it up by slandering her name and character.

Cop searching for a kid that is supposedly missing enters the backyard of an unrelated family (w/o permission or warrant) and shoots the family pet. Kid was found at home.

Officers conduct a no knock raid on the home of a former Marine. He was on his way to investigate the people around his house with his rifle when the deputies barge in. One trips and triggers a round. The rest assume that the homeowner is firing and shoot him down. IIRC he was hit over 70 times. His rifle had not been fired and in fact was on safe. They were actually looking for a relative who didn't live in the house.

A swat team from department of education (why do they need a swat team) breaks into a home on a no knock warrant terrorizing the man and his children. They were looking for his ex-wife who had defaulted on student loans.

But I guess they all deserved it.

Excellent post!

[dndfindley]

You may want to check your sources on some of these. I'm familiar with that last story. It came from the "Cato at Liberty" blog, published by the CATO Institute, a well known radical civil liberties organisation. If, in fact, it's based on truth, the truth is likely slanted with implications to support their ideological mindset, just as the Verge did with the Washington Post piece that started this thread. I believe there are "more reliable" internet news sources than the National Review, the Verge, and the CATO at Liberty blog.

As we all know... "You cannot believe everything you read on the internet" (a quote attributed on the internet originally to Thomas Jefferson). Here is a famous photo of Adolf Hitler with his iPhone (perhaps taking a selfie). When the poster was accused of posting a picture that had been photoshopped, his reply was, "Thats rediculous! There WAS no Photoshop back in Hitler's time." :sour:


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NDb9jIeyEx8/UFakROeqCII/AAAAAAAASEk/ICk0yMUWdv0/s1600/%5BFun+Video%5D+Hitler's+reaction+after+Apple+laun ched+the+iPhone+5.jpg



EVERY single incident quoted in the referenced post is true and has been verified. We live in beginnings of a police state. Are all police bad? No, of course not - but many of the organizations they belong to and/or work for are and by that I don't mean they are on the take and are criminals. I mean many of them are jack booted thugs. You give yourself away when you call the Cato Institute "radical." Give me a freaking break. Some of the posts here are naïve and to some extent I understand that. You are not naïve, but your leanings are very evident.

[dndfindley]

I was in Atlanta when the lady was murdered by police officers. I remember the coverage back and forth on what are considered reputable news sources. If you do a search on no-knock warrants you can find several cases where the process resulted in the injury or death of innocent people or destruction of property where no evidence of crime was found.

A simple search on asset forfeiture will also reveal that it is often used in questionable situations and results in severe hardship for citizens trying to recover their property from police departments that use the tactic to gain funds.

If anyone wants to believe that all those folks had it coming that is their right. I, however, am mighty fond of the rights the Constitution says we have and am concerned that too often they are being ignored.

You are correct. Just do a search on a John Stossel on Fox News about the police.

[Bob Denman]

How naïve.

I've never had any trouble with law enforcement; I try to stay out of their way; and they leave me alone! :2thumbs:

[Gray Ghost]

I have family and friends that are LEOs, but in my mind, feeble as it is, allowing any agency to have the power to arbitrarily confiscate a citizens money or possessions without any oversight or ruling by a court is the sort of thing the founding fathers were so upset about with the English.

[missouriboy]

I read the Verge piece and thought it was awfully short and pointless. I didn't read the Washington Post article, but I did read a well-written and very long article about it in the Staunton VA local paper here (http://www.newsleader.com/story/news/local/2014/09/09/innocent-va-motorists-caught-seizure-net/15328781/).

The militarization of our local police these days is enough to make regular, honest folks sick! :barf:

[Cruzr Joe]

Wrong. As Spyder riders we come into contact with law enforcement types daily. This piece is a warning that all police are to be viewed with suspicion, especially on traffic stops.


"All Police are to be viewed with suspicion" :hun:, rather harsh statement towards the people that you look to for the protection of you and your family.


Cruzr Joe (Retired Law Enforcement and Father of two current Law Enforcement Officers)

[Cruzr Joe]

There are about 1.3 million law enforcement officers in the US. Of these about 250,000 are employed by the Federal government. No work force that large, anywhere in the world, can exist without a few "bad apples." Similarly, out of 1.3 million people you will find some truly outstanding individuals.

Most large law enforcement agencies work very hard to eliminate the bad ones--before they even get started. For example, the Los Angeles Police Department has very strict recruitment practices. They hire only 1/4% of the original applicants. Of those 50% bust out of the academy. To be an LAPD officer you must attend the LAPD academy. So if Los Angeles needs 100 new officers, it must get (100/.0025)/.5)=80,000 accepted applications. For an application to be accepted you must be physically fit and pass a psychological test. Further physical and psychological assessment comes later--what is mentioned here is only the testing to get an application accepted for consideration.

LAPD has 10,000 police officers. Out of 10,000 employees you are going to have a few go bad, and a few become stars. The LAPD academy lasts almost six months, and 50% of the recruits do not have the combination of mental skills to make it through. After that there is an additional 18 month probationary period where the rookie can be fired for any reason at all.

interestingly the bad cops, making bad decisions, and using bad judgement, get most of the press coverage. Why? Because sensationalism sells papers. A story about someone who is entrusted by the citizenry to be good, just, and strong, is sensational when that person does some wicked thing. The stories about the lives police save, just in the day-to-day activities, and the good they do seldom get reported.

I am guilty of feeding that media monster, like everyone else. I would rather read about some rogue cop getting caught at something wicked, than read a story about an officer who took down a man who has both a gun and a psychotic break, or a story about how an officer prevented an elderly widow from investing her retirement savings into some "Nigerian" scheme.

If you think being an officer is easy, or that most cops are corrupt, then you should get involved either as a professional law enforcement officer, or as a volunteer. That is the only way you can improve things. After all, throwing spit wads on a motor cycle forum won't do any good...



Good Post

Cruzr Joe

[Bob Denman]

"All Police are to be viewed with suspicion" :hun:, rather harsh statement towards the people that you look to for the protection of you and your family.


Cruzr Joe (Retired Law Enforcement and Father of two current Law Enforcement Officers)

:agree: If your butt was in some SERIOUS trouble; who do you want showing up to save you? :dontknow:

[Dan_Ashley]

:agree: If your butt was in some SERIOUS trouble; who do you want showing up to save you? :dontknow:I want Beyoncé to save me.

[Bob Denman]

But only if it includes mouth to mouth resusitation; right? :D

[Dan_Ashley]

But only if it includes mouth to mouth resusitation; right? :D
:bowdown:ANY type of suscitation would be good. It doesn't HAVE to be REsusciatation. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Suscitation

[Dan_Ashley]

This is the part that gets me upset as above.
What is the right uniform/outfit to wear as 10 LEOS encouter 40 rioters throwing buring gas bottles ??? or the full auto weapons brought across the border ilegally ??

Iron Man suits.
If those are unavailable C130 gunships.
If those are not available, tanks.

Certainly not leotards with dinner jackets.

one night in Watts my partner and I started getting pelted by the rear sprockets from 10 speed bicycles. The parts had been burglarized from a nearby bicycle shop. It was about 1:30 AM! In the city park. We put on our helmets and crashed the police car into a fire hydrant near the middle of the park. The water shot 20' or so into the air, and came down hard on the gang members. They ran in all directions. The officers responding to the help call merely picked up any male on the street who was soaking wet.

nobody got hurt. The dept of water had to turn off the main and replace the hydrant. The shop had to repair the bumper on the police car.

result: 18 felony convictions; Watts was a little safer for the people who lived there.

[dndfindley]

"All Police are to be viewed with suspicion" :hun:, rather harsh statement towards the people that you look to for the protection of you and your family.


Cruzr Joe (Retired Law Enforcement and Father of two current Law Enforcement Officers)

I don't look to law enforcement for the protection of either myself or my family. That is MY responsibility. The police have no obligation to protect anyone - they are there to enforce the law...and pick up the pieces AFTER a crime.

[Dan_Ashley]

I don't look to law enforcement for the protection of either myself or my family. That is MY responsibility. The police have no obligation to protect anyone - they are there to enforce the law...and pick up the pieces AFTER a crime.time for you to move to Idaho and join a militia?

[Gray Ghost]

There are a lot of places in the US where law enforcement is not readily available. My home is over thirty miles away from the nearest law enforcement. If a deputy happens to be in my area when I call in a problem I might get some help while the situation is ongoing. Other than that it is up to me and my neighbors to do whatever we can.

[Bob Denman]

one night in Watts my partner and I started getting pelted by the rear sprockets from 10 speed bicycles. The parts had been burglarized from a nearby bicycle shop. It was about 1:30 AM! In the city park. We put on our helmets and crashed the police car into a fire hydrant near the middle of the park. The water shot 20' or so into the air, and came down hard on the gang members. They ran in all directions. The officers responding to the help call merely picked up any male on the street who was soaking wet.

nobody got hurt. The dept of water had to turn off the main and replace the hydrant. The shop had to repair the bumper on the police car.

result: 18 felony convictions; Watts was a little safer for the people who lived there.

...And a few miscreants got a bath, that they probably needed! :clap: :2thumbs:

[crazyspyder]

All I can say is that I will respect LEO no matter what mood they are on! many times I have been pulled over and gotten some really cranky ones, rude, and obnoxious....but If I show courtesy and respect first with a smile everything
changes from there on out- I try and have the mentality of NOT being a bad - ass jackass ! that also makes their day knowing they dont have to deal with some one with a bad- ass attitude. I don't believe ALL cops are bad.
We have bad and good in everything in life....learn to survive and outlive the outcome! peace :yes:

[Bob Denman]

But it really should be viewed in here!
(In spite of a bit of harsh language... )




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR465HoCWFQ&feature=player_embedded

[robmorg]

There are about 1.3 million law enforcement officers in the US. Of these about 250,000 are employed by the Federal government. No work force that large, anywhere in the world, can exist without a few "bad apples." Similarly, out of 1.3 million people you will find some truly outstanding individuals.

Most large law enforcement agencies work very hard to eliminate the bad ones--before they even get started. For example, the Los Angeles Police Department has very strict recruitment practices. They hire only 1/4% of the original applicants. Of those 50% bust out of the academy. To be an LAPD officer you must attend the LAPD academy. So if Los Angeles needs 100 new officers, it must get (100/.0025)/.5)=80,000 accepted applications. For an application to be accepted you must be physically fit and pass a psychological test. Further physical and psychological assessment comes later--what is mentioned here is only the testing to get an application accepted for consideration.

LAPD has 10,000 police officers. Out of 10,000 employees you are going to have a few go bad, and a few become stars. The LAPD academy lasts almost six months, and 50% of the recruits do not have the combination of mental skills to make it through. After that there is an additional 18 month probationary period where the rookie can be fired for any reason at all.

interestingly the bad cops, making bad decisions, and using bad judgement, get most of the press coverage. Why? Because sensationalism sells papers. A story about someone who is entrusted by the citizenry to be good, just, and strong, is sensational when that person does some wicked thing. The stories about the lives police save, just in the day-to-day activities, and the good they do seldom get reported.

I am guilty of feeding that media monster, like everyone else. I would rather read about some rogue cop getting caught at something wicked, than read a story about an officer who took down a man who has both a gun and a psychotic break, or a story about how an officer prevented an elderly widow from investing her retirement savings into some "Nigerian" scheme.

If you think being an officer is easy, or that most cops are corrupt, then you should get involved either as a professional law enforcement officer, or as a volunteer. That is the only way you can improve things. After all, throwing spit wads on a motor cycle forum won't do any good... I don't usually requote the post this large, but this one deserves to be said again, because it gets to the root of this entire issue.

Thank you, Dan.

[robmorg]

You give yourself away when you call the Cato Institute "radical." Give me a freaking break. Some of the posts here are naïve and to some extent I understand that. You are not naïve, but your leanings are very evident. Thank you. I'll take that as a compliment.

[Bob Denman]

So if I'm the naive one; should I be insulted? :shocked:

[robmorg]

:bowdown:ANY type of suscitation would be good. It doesn't HAVE to be REsusciatation. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Suscitation
:roflblack: That post made my day. :2thumbs:

[Can-Am Poogs]

As a police officer for the last 25 years with 3 or maybe 4 years to go before I pack it in, I am both disgusted and understanding of the POV expressed in this post.

The disgusted part is in that I have been doing this job the right way for the last 25 years with out any intention of ever doing it wrong, and it is troubling to think some may view me with distrust and think I may be corrupt without even really knowing anything about me, and the type of work I have done in that time. The generalizations are some what offensive. I've been shot at, been in a lot of fights 1 on 1 and even been out numbered few times, been is a couple of crashes chasing down bad guys, in burning building trying to get people out. I have taken down more violent and armed suspects than you could begin to dream of. I have showed more compassion then you would ever know having to deliver the news nobody wants to hear about their son's, daughter's, father's, mother's, brother's, sister's untimely and tragic deaths. I have had those moments where I have had to get on the radio and scream for back-up. I have more moments than you could imagine where I thought I may not make it home to my wife and my kids, or get to see the people I care about again. I have been banged up, scraped up, cut, poked by needles, and had broken bones. I have been hospitalized and laid up at home not able to do the simplest of things. Oddly enough none of these things happened because I had a crystal ball and knew where to be at the exact time I was needed. Somebody called and needed our help. We don't get to pick and choose, we have to go.

I have received commendations. I have received discipline, because lets face it you can't be 100 percent on the ball 100% of the time and mistakes happen, and sometimes some one just needs to be told to ^&%$ off, whether it be a bad guy, complainant, coworker, or boss. I sure hope that doesn't make me one of those bad cops we are talking about here.

How is it I am understanding? I was over at another cops house for supper last week and we were sitting around the table with our wives talking after the meal. This guy and I were in the same training troop 25 years ago, he met his wife at my wedding. The conversation started around a fellow troop mate of ours in another part of the country that was recently sentenced to 5 years in jail for trafficking cocaine. As we talked, I figured that I could account for knowing one police officer that had been fired for every year I had been on the job. Wow, that's a lot. And for every sort of crime or abuse of authority or breach of trust imaginable. And that is just the way it is ladies and gentleman, welcome to life? In every profession in this entire world, there are people that suck at it, are bad at it, and never should have done it. Every career or menial job has people that shouldn't be doing it, regardless of what provisions are in place to ensure they are not there. And do you know why? Because the pool of people used to fill any job in this world come from us. Yes ladies and gentleman, you may not know or believe this but " bad people are among us". Shhhhhh....don't tell anyone.....we don't want the people reading this to tell anyone else that may not already know this or are discovering it for the first time. So we got to keep it a secret. Promise? Oooopppss, humor and sarcasm interjected. There are bad doctors, dentists, lawyers, nurses, etc etc etc, there are even bad motorcycle mechanics, and Spyder dealers. This is the world we live in.

FYI, I have been that drug intradiction cop on the highway at a time in my career. I have taken lots of cash, X, cannibus, cocaine, heroin, etc of the road and I don't got one guilty feeling about. Oddly enough I have never been told of a time when I seized cash that I believed to be the proceeds of crime, that the person has ever asked for it back....hmmmm...I wonder why. If your 5 senses tell you something isn't right, then something isn't right.

My experience is of course the Canadian experience, but I have been on the other side of the badge in your country, and OMG is it an uncomfortable feeling. More so because I am not a citizen and my rights basically don't exist. I have been detained, made to strip down to my gotch, had my cell phone searched, computer searched, my truck ripped apart, all while being surrounded by more than a few officers, who were looking for cash and guns. An hour later being told I was free to go, without so much as a thank-you. When my phone rang I all but got jumped when I attempted to answer it. I just wrote it off to being part of the american experience, but I know and understand why they did it, and what the triggers were that caused it to happen.

I could go on for hours talking about arbitrary vehicle stops and reasonable suspicion...

I know someone made a comment about not liking being presumed guilty. I guess you should ask yourself why you feel that way. I realize some people just do feel that way even with nothing to hide. But that is just you and not really about the cop. It also conditioning. When we get stopped we expect to be told what we did wrong or what the allegation is. So the experience of being stopped by the police has people on the defensive immediately because we are all conditioned that way. Lets face it you are not going to be stopped to talk about the weather, or which flavor of Jolly Rancher is your favorite or because they want to make a friend. The odds are they have plenty of friends already;).

Anyway, we are not all bad, but I understand why we get a bad wrap. Lets not forget you guys aren't all good either (not you guys here on this site, generally speaking). And lets not forget that cops are not born in a cop hatchery, we are not taken away from our mothers at birth and groomed to be cops, we are not aliens from another planet, we come from you guys and gals. Little cops to be walk among us, they don't and we don't know who they are going to be yet. Pretty spooky aye, I know it gives me the creeps? Bad cops are just as bad a reflection on you as they are on the rest of their occupation. So quit poking yourself in the eye.

Cheers, love you all and God bless, this is my day off and that means I am parent and domestic servant. Love chatting with you guys and gals here.

[Dan_Ashley]

....t I have been doing this job the right way for the last 25 years... Thank you, Sir. Thank you for helping make it safe for me to walk my dog at night, attend a baseball game, park my car at a movie theater, and saving me from being killed by a drunk driver. Thank you, Sir.

It takes an above average person to be a cop. Every day your sense of judgment is tested; Every moment your mental acuity is under fire; every week your physical fitness is demanded; ALWAYS your motives are questioned. Yet you prevail to keep us safe from the bad people out there. You even try to keep the bad people safe from themselves.

And what do you get out of it? A salary? The kind of person who makes a good cop would be successful at anything they attempt. So, a salary and a pension is not what you get out of it. You could make more in car sales if you put your mind to it. A thankful community? Sometimes. Usually they just ignore you. A sense of justice? When a child rapist gets off, or a DUI killer goes free? No.

Yet, your sense of honor, and your commitment to improvement of your community sustains you.

I salute you.

Thank you,
Dan

[wyliec]

Can-Am Poogs,

Once again, there are some members here that make too much sense. Thank you.

Also, thanks for calling out bad doctors and nurses, and not physical therapists.:joke:

[Cruzr Joe]

I don't look to law enforcement for the protection of either myself or my family. That is MY responsibility. The police have no obligation to protect anyone - they are there to enforce the law...and pick up the pieces AFTER a crime.


life would not be easy with no Law Enforcement protection.

Cruzr Joe

[Can-Am Poogs]

life would not be easy with no Law Enforcement protection.

Cruzr Joe


I don't look to law enforcement for the protection of either myself or my family. That is MY responsibility. The police have no obligation to protect anyone - they are there to enforce the law...and pick up the pieces AFTER a crime.

This makes me think back to a time when I was driving through a residential neighborhood while on patrol. February in the middle of winter and the coldest month of the year. -40 F. It was 3:00 am. There had just been a fresh snowfall. Everything was crisp and clean. The police radio was dead quiet. I remember it because I had a fever, was shaking like a leaf, and felt sick as heck. What went through my mind as I drove through this beautiful area? How nice and warm peoples houses are as I watched the smoke come out all the chimneys. How they must all be snuggled up all nice and warm under their blankets and comforters or duvets. How at peace every one must be, getting their beauty rest and having dreams, completely oblivious to the outside world and what is going on. Families safe, kids safe, pets safe, everybody tucked it.

That's when I notice a car running in an alley, and when I pull up to get a closer look there is a garage door up. Two guys come running out to the alley leave their stolen car behind because I blocked it in, and the foot chase is on. I figure I jumped about ten fences through all those yards, cut through some parks and school yards and businesses before with the assistance of a K-9 we got these guys. Not one person in one of those yards had a clue what had just happened, neither did the half a dozen people who had their garages broken into and their property stolen.

We can't be everywhere we are needed, but sometimes we get lucky. We took and oath to protect like and property, so we are under an obligation to do just that. Bottom line is we are an essential service, much like garbage collection and sanitation.

Its a novel idea to think we can protect our families 24 7. I wish you could. Had that been the case I would have listened to my dad and been a family law lawyer working half as hard and making three times as much money...lol. My mom wanted me to be a fireman, because everybody loves them.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Like i have always said 5% are bad but those are the ones you hear about & the news plays up for ratings, gee maybe then 95% of newscasters are bad then......

[Bob Denman]

life would not be easy with no Law Enforcement protection.

Cruzr Joe
But I DO bet that it'd be mighty interesting... :D

95089

For a little while... :shocked:

[dndfindley]

time for you to move to Idaho and join a militia?

No, but is it time for you and some others to take responsibility for your lives rather than relegate it to the government?

[Bob Denman]

You don't exist in a vaccuum; regardless of the personal choices that you make, there will always be "authority" around you...
Be thankful for that! You can't possibley guard everyting and everyone that you hold dear; all at the same time... :shocked:

[SPYD3R]

WHEN SECONDS COUNT,
POLICE ARE ONLY MINUTES AWAY....

AND ARMED CITIZEN IS A FREE MAN...

[wyliec]

WHEN SECONDS COUNT,
POLICE ARE ONLY MINUTES AWAY....

AND ARMED CITIZEN IS A FREE MAN...

How about- An armed citizen is slave to his firearm.

Negative comments (like we've both made) toward those that don't wish to carry and those that do wish to carry solve nothing, except to take the original post way off topic.

By the way, I'm not saying you are the first on this thread to veer off topic. But, your post caught my eye.

[Dan_Ashley]

No, but is it time for you and some others to take responsibility for your lives rather than relegate it to the government?you do not know me.

[Bob Denman]

How about- An armed citizen is slave to his firearm.

Kind of like... :D



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7krC6SY5b1A

[Gator37]

BINGO.... :clap:
NONSENSE, Most Police Officers are just doing their job. How you are treated is gonna be based on Attitude, Attitude, Attitude. Former LEO and proud of it.

[Gator37]

:agree: It takes a particular type of personality, to be able to jump into a situation, and take charge in about two seconds... :clap: :2thumbs:


Ya got that right, and in that two seconds your life can end if you aren't paying attention. There are real scumbags out there.