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View Full Version : 215/60R15 Michelin Hydroedge wear report



sddinnh
08-21-2014, 04:37 PM
New tread depth .360
Tread depth after 2500 miles .330
difference .030

Estimated life .360 / .030 * 2500 = 30,800

So far tire handles nicely and good in rain

tigerdr
08-21-2014, 04:50 PM
Best replacement rear tire for Spyder. I have one and very happy with it.

Chupaca
08-21-2014, 04:51 PM
thanks for the update. :2thumbs:

Roadster Renovations
08-22-2014, 07:53 AM
Just bought one for $85 off of Amazon. Best price I could find!

http://www.amazon.com/215-60-15-MICHELIN-HYDROEDGE-93T/dp/B002R262GA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1408711901&sr=8-3&keywords=%27215%2F60-15+MICHELIN+HYDROEDGE

bluestratos
08-22-2014, 09:21 AM
Do you have a picture of it on the bike? Just wonder how it looks compared to stock dimension wise.

Thanks,

Randy,


New tread depth .360
Tread depth after 2500 miles .330
difference .030

Estimated life .360 / .030 * 2500 = 30,800

So far tire handles nicely and good in rain

Roadster Renovations
08-22-2014, 10:03 AM
What pressure have you found works best for this tire?

KX5062
08-22-2014, 10:16 AM
New tread depth .360
Tread depth after 2500 miles .330
difference .030

Estimated life .360 / .030 * 2500 = 30,800

So far tire handles nicely and good in rain

Interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience. That tire has a hardness rating of 800, with a 90,000 mile warranty. This rating being near the top end of the compunds available. Since the Spyder is so light relatively speaking, it seems like it could cause some handling issues.

tigerdr
08-22-2014, 01:15 PM
Interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience. That tire has a hardness rating of 800, with a 90,000 mile warranty. This rating being near the top end of the compunds available. Since the Spyder is so light relatively speaking, it seems like it could cause some handling issues.

No handling issues since I install my Michelin HydtoEdge on my RT.

Highwayman2013
08-22-2014, 01:35 PM
We have the same size Primacy, no issues whatsoever.

Roadster Renovations
08-22-2014, 08:21 PM
No handling issues since I install my Michelin HydtoEdge on my RT.

What pressure are you running??

Highwayman2013
08-22-2014, 09:59 PM
93686[ATTACH]93687[/ATTACH Here's mine.

tigerdr
08-23-2014, 07:05 AM
What pressure are you running??

28PSI. I have a RTS.

mikes351
09-02-2014, 12:50 PM
New tread depth .360
Tread depth after 2500 miles .330
difference .030

Estimated life .360 / .030 * 2500 = 30,800

So far tire handles nicely and good in rain

Thanks for the information, I just ordered two to us... Found out they are being discontinued so I wanted to stock up.

Michael

sddinnh
09-02-2014, 12:56 PM
I'm running 28 psi also. Tread wear looks nice and even. No handling issues that I can report. I'll snap a picture when I get home tonight.

sddinnh
09-02-2014, 12:59 PM
93686[ATTACH]93687[/ATTACH Here's mine.

You were my inspiration to go looking at this size. Your good luck with the Primacy caused me to hunt around and I found the Hydroedge. Too bad they discontinued it, but I have a spare in the basement :thumbup:

Highwayman2013
09-02-2014, 01:03 PM
As long as it works, that's what counts. I'm running 28 psi as well.

sddinnh
09-02-2014, 05:37 PM
Here's the Hydroedge at 3700 miles - nice and flat with good tread definition. You can see the heavy center rib and good water paths to the edge which is one of the reasons I chose to try this tire



94489
94490
94491

tigerdr
09-02-2014, 06:58 PM
Michelin HydroEdge or Michelin Primacy... the best choice.

Roadster Renovations
09-02-2014, 11:41 PM
Here's the Hydroedge at 4000 miles - nice and flat with good tread definition. You can see the heavy center rib and good water paths to the edge which is one of the reasons I chose to try this tire



94489
94490
94491
That looks awesome! Can't wait to get mine installed!

jtoro1
09-03-2014, 07:44 AM
Good Info like formula 1 harder compound will last longer but is not good in the rain asked another SL he said his michelin hydroplanes he is using the same tire , lower treadwearwear tire will be softer better for rain

sddinnh
09-03-2014, 10:11 AM
Good Info like formula 1 harder compound will last longer but is not good in the rain asked another SL he said his michelin hydroplanes he is using the same tire , lower treadwearwear tire will be softer better for rain

All I can tell you is I've had no problems with this tire in either the wet or dry. I would like to know what kind of Spyder did have a hydroplaning problem. I'm running this on a 1000# plus RT-L and if you put the same tire on a lighter RS or ST then I have no idea how it will re-act, but that may account for the difference.:dontknow:

bluestratos
09-03-2014, 02:14 PM
I have never heard that softer rubber is better for wet roads, only for traction. Is this fact?

Highwayman2013
09-03-2014, 02:20 PM
Hydroplaning has little to do with compound, it has more to do with tread pattern and how the tread sheds water. If that were true soft slicks would be great in the rain. If you want to run a soft tire go ahead but some of us don't want to change tires twice a season.

tigerdr
09-03-2014, 03:06 PM
The Michelin HydroEdge was designs to be the best tire on wet road. This tire was severly tested on different wet condition and hydroplanning.

I drive today under heavy rain and on rough pavement. No hydroplanning with this Michelin HydroEdge. 24000 kilometer (14000 miles) on this tire.

Bob Denman
09-03-2014, 05:22 PM
And how is it holding up to the extended use? How much tread depth do you still have? :dontknow:

sddinnh
09-03-2014, 05:42 PM
And how is it holding up to the extended use? How much tread depth do you still have? :dontknow:

Jeez Bob, I can only drive so much :yikes::joke:

Start out new = .360
Current after 3700 miles = .320

Used = .040

New estimated milage = .360 / .040 * 3700 = 33,300

So, it looks like the wear is slowing down slightly, but it's still on target to be a 30,000 mile tire (although that is obviously subject to change). So I'm going try to keep this up every 5,000 miles or so just to track the wear on this one.

PattyandJoe
09-24-2014, 01:21 AM
Jeez Bob, I can only drive so much :yikes::joke:

Start out new = .360
Current after 3700 miles = .320

Used = .040

New estimated milage = .360 / .040 * 3700 = 33,300

So, it looks like the wear is slowing down slightly, but it's still on target to be a 30,000 mile tire (although that is obviously subject to change). So I'm going try to keep this up every 5,000 miles or so just to track the wear on this one.

Since they are about impossible to find. What other tires are good replacements???Thanks

sddinnh
09-24-2014, 05:26 AM
As I understand it, the Michelin Defender is the replacement tire for the Hydroedge. There is also a Perreli P4 available in that size that looks pretty good. Several guys have also had good luck with Khumos. I buy my tires in 2's, so I still have a spare Hydroedge sitting in the barn for the next time around so I haven't been looking for what's available now. I would think that any QUALITY car tire in that size would work fine. I only choose the Hydroedge because I liked the tread pattern and it seemed wide opened enough not to cause hydroplaning.

PW2013STL
09-24-2014, 11:54 AM
As I understand it, the Michelin Defender is the replacement tire for the Hydroedge. There is also a Perreli P4 available in that size that looks pretty good. Several guys have also had good luck with Khumos. I buy my tires in 2's, so I still have a spare Hydroedge sitting in the barn for the next time around so I haven't been looking for what's available now. I would think that any QUALITY car tire in that size would work fine. I only choose the Hydroedge because I liked the tread pattern and it seemed wide opened enough not to cause hydroplaning.

I hope you are keeping that spare cool and dark as I was told by a tire manufacture that heat and sun will shorten the life of a stored tire rather quickly.

bluestratos
09-24-2014, 12:14 PM
I like the Hydro Edge but the Primacy and Defender look like they not a symmetrical tread design.

BikerDoc
09-24-2014, 12:21 PM
New tread depth .360
Tread depth after 2500 miles .330
difference .030

Estimated life .360 / .030 * 2500 = 30,800

So far tire handles nicely and good in rain good info, with enough options BRP can't block them all

GrumpySteelMan
09-24-2014, 12:25 PM
Good Info like formula 1 harder compound will last longer but is not good in the rain asked another SL he said his michelin hydroplanes he is using the same tire , lower treadwearwear tire will be softer better for rain


I have never heard that softer rubber is better for wet roads, only for traction. Is this fact?

There may be a slight difference in compound, but I imagine whoever came up with this idea was comparing tires with radically different tread patterns/contact patch.

Very soft sports tires on RWD sports cars don't make them spin out or hydroplane any less, this is due to the larger cross section of rubber meeting the road with some influence being the weight applied for a given area.

A 255mm wide tire with a very open tread pattern and/or deep channels gives the water someplace to be displaced. You don't always see this because WET traction must be traded for DRY traction in some ways. For example a very soft "slick" will be way more dangerous than a very hard economy tire in any application, in the wet.

Softer compounds allow for better wet performance without sacrificing too much dry performance by using a sticky compound. The choice of compound is largely incidental for a higher performance tire in the wet.

ulflyer
09-24-2014, 12:27 PM
I hope you are keeping that spare cool and dark as I was told by a tire manufacture that heat and sun will shorten the life of a stored tire rather quickly.

I believe a tire stored in a garage, shed, or basement will last for several years without deterioration despite what the tire manufacture says. After all, they are there to sell tires. Sorta like the Jiffy lubes places tell you to change that expensive synthetic oil every 3000 miles while the MM (motor minder) on you car tells you its good for 10,000 miles.

I like the looks of the tread on the hydroedge and might see if I can find one to use after my current Pirelli P4 wears out.
Its got 5000+ on it now and 7mm of tread left all across. I didn't measure it when new so no idea how well its wearing. I'm using 22lbs pressure and checking it, and tread depth, regularly to maintain even wear across the tread. :)

BLUEKNIGHT911
09-24-2014, 04:43 PM
I believe a tire stored in a garage, shed, or basement will last for several years without deterioration despite what the tire manufacture says. After all, they are there to sell tires. Sorta like the Jiffy lubes places tell you to change that expensive synthetic oil every 3000 miles while the MM (motor minder) on you car tells you its good for 10,000 miles.

I like the looks of the tread on the hydroedge and might see if I can find one to use after my current Pirelli P4 wears out.
Its got 5000+ on it now and 7mm of tread left all across. I didn't measure it when new so no idea how well its wearing. I'm using 22lbs pressure and checking it, and tread depth, regularly to maintain even wear across the tread. :)..................Ron look on the TIRE RACK web site sight for Pirelli P -4 tires ......it will give the specs for that tire when it was new .....................and any other tire they sell ..................Mike :thumbup:

ulflyer
09-24-2014, 07:05 PM
..................Ron look on the TIRE RACK web site sight for Pirelli P -4 tires ......it will give the specs for that tire when it was new .....................and any other tire they sell ..................Mike :thumbup:

Checked TR and it was 8.7mm when new. If its 7mm now with 5000 miles it should last another.................miles? I have no idea how to figure this! :opps:

sddinnh
09-24-2014, 07:08 PM
divide 8.7 by 1.7 and multiply by 5000 = 25,500 to zero tread

so....... another 15,000 to the wear bars ?????????

joshuaberryhill
09-24-2014, 07:44 PM
Found a site recommended by a friend veerubber.com they have a trike specific rear tire VT350R ARACHNID solely for trikes, this is rear and 2 options for front one is the ARACHNID VT350F for fronts and a ZILENT VT350R option also for front. I am tired of can am and there poor customer service. My 2012 RT LIMITED original tire lasted 2.5 years 12,000 miles. My new tire 2.5 moths 3900 miles and needs to be replaced because it's worn already. My dealer called them and their response wad OH....Sorry that tire number was updated to a new tire and number. They said Tell your customer we will credit 50.00 towards the purchase of the updated tire. Wait I just spent 375.00 for tire and labor 2.5 months ago, now BRP is telling me to pay another 325.00 and they will pay other 50.00.

I am shocked, I said you sent a tire to my dealer that was not updated tire and number and put.me and my passengers life at risk knowing the tires were bad???? Response: We're standing by that decision , take it to the dealer and decide what you want to do. WELL BRP MY DECISION IS TO FINA A NEW COMPANY THAT STAND BEHIND THERE PRODUCT AND DOES NOT PUT THERE CUSTOMERS LIVES AT RISK WITH FAULTY TIRES.....AND I WILL TELL EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS ISSUE.....

Please check your tires folks, Your safety depends on it.

joshuaberryhill
09-24-2014, 07:47 PM
Veerubber.com has trike specific tire for rear it's an ARACHNID. They also have fronts trike specific for can am. Also on there site is ZILENT who makes front trike specific tires for can am. They guarntee product and mileage unlike BRP.
GOOD LUCK

joshuaberryhill
09-24-2014, 07:58 PM
I believe a tire stored in a garage, shed, or basement will last for several years without deterioration despite what the tire manufacture says. After all, they are there to sell tires. Sorta like the Jiffy lubes places tell you to change that expensive synthetic oil every 3000 miles while the MM (motor minder) on you car tells you its good for 10,000 miles.

I like the looks of the tread on the hydroedge and might see if I can find one to use after my current Pirelli P4 wears out.
Its got 5000+ on it now and 7mm of tread left all across. I didn't measure it when new so no idea how well its wearing. I'm using 22lbs pressure and checking it, and tread depth, regularly to maintain even wear across the tread. :)
look @ veerubber.com Arachnids for rear and front also they carry ZILENT for fronts too. They make trike specific tires with guarntee.
Hope this helps....

That looks awesome! Can't wait to get mine installed!

BLUEKNIGHT911
09-24-2014, 10:52 PM
look @ veerubber.com Arachnids for rear and front also they carry ZILENT for fronts too. They make trike specific tires with guarntee.
Hope this helps....
.................You have been here all of one month :clap::clap::clap:........I've been here a few years and have purchased quite a few tires for hree different Spyders , and they have all been CAR TIRES.....The new Arachnids were COPIED from the KENDA'S which IMHO ( and that of many others here ) a garbage tire ..........if you copy a garbage tire what do you think you will get.??????????......................There are many excellent , long wearing car tires that will fit the Spyder ................and there have about 100 posts about them .............Good luck................Mike :thumbup:

joshuaberryhill
09-24-2014, 11:02 PM
I am reading more on those. Wasn't sure about car tire, pressure, etc. And I was told by some pencil geek tech @ the cust. Service that I would void my warranty on the bike mechanics if something were to go wrong. But @ this point anything but a tire from BRP. I just feel someone else deserves my business from this point forward on tires, only due to how I was treated. My dealer is great and a friend. He told me that they will eat the labor cost. But I need to make a decision on the tire. So it's not a money issue but more principal. My car tires for 4 didn't cost 700.00.
But I did see the ARACHNID on a Harley trike and it was new with about 350 miles on it and it looked so much more meatier in tread depth. Which do you have on yours??? I'm on a 2012 rt limited.

Some say discount tire, and there is one just around the corner from me so if yours is good maybe I can see if they have 1 in stock to look at. Please let me know

ulflyer
09-25-2014, 08:08 AM
divide 8.7 by 1.7 and multiply by 5000 = 25,500 to zero tread

so....... another 15,000 to the wear bars ?????????

Thanks for doing the math for me. :D

I'm not that optimistic but if I can get 15K I'd be thrilled. On previous '11, with same tire, it had 10-12K (forget exactly) when traded and it still had lots of tread left so I was expecting at least 15K on it. Will keep my fingers crossed.

Roadster Renovations
09-25-2014, 10:56 PM
I now have over 3,000 miles on my Hydroedge and it looks brand new. Today, we started out in Portland, Maine and landed in Hershey, PA. About 500 miles all told. Some of the route took us right on the edge on NYC and Newark. Those people like their speed and you better match them or get out of their way. I had not rode the hydroedge much in the rain and some had said that the stiffness of the tire vs. the weight of the bike could make hydroplaning a possibility. It rained most of today so I got to test it under what I would consider some of the toughest driving around. If the speed limit is 55, they will run 80. The road has some tight curves and if you don't have traction you are in big trouble. I started carefully and as I rode longer and longer I became completely confidant of the tire. It worked perfectly. I am running about 27 psi in it. This tire may have an issue in 30,000 miles after it wears some, but by that time I would have bought 5 Kendras based upon the mileage I got on the first tire.

tigerdr
09-26-2014, 04:27 AM
[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

sddinnh
09-26-2014, 05:29 AM
I now have over 3,000 miles on my Hydroedge and it looks brand new. Today, we started out in Portland, Maine and landed in Hershey, PA. About 500 miles all told. Some of the route took us right on the edge on NYC and Newark. Those people like their speed and you better match them or get out of their way. I had not rode the hydroedge much in the rain and some had said that the stiffness of the tire vs. the weight of the bike could make hydroplaning a possibility. It rained most of today so I got to test it under what I would consider some of the toughest driving around. If the speed limit is 55, they will run 80. The road has some tight curves and if you don't have traction you are in big trouble. I started carefully and as I rode longer and longer I became completely confidant of the tire. It worked perfectly. I am running about 27 psi in it. This tire may have an issue in 30,000 miles after it wears some, but by that time I would have bought 5 Kendras based upon the mileage I got on the first tire.

It's a good fit on the Spyder for me. I ran it up thru Quebec last summer and it performed flawlessly, rain or shine. After I was happy, I went out and bought a second one so I'd have a "spare". Too bad they discontinued them. I'm on a hunt now for a new front, but there's no rush, the Kendas seem to be holding up fine now that we got the cupping straightened out.

MarkLawson
09-26-2014, 09:04 AM
And how is it holding up to the extended use? How much tread depth do you still have? :dontknow:

Bob, I have 15,413 miles on my HydroEdge rear tire after about 2.5 years on the RT. It shows between 7 & 8 on the tread depth gauge. When I check the pressure, which isn't as often as it should be, I set it to run at 28 psi. Have not noticed any significant pressure loss, although I'm sure I make pressure adjustments when checking and needed.

Tire looks good.

I have had a significant hydroplaning incident not long after installing it. I was on the interstate and running around 70 mph pulling my loaded RT622 trailer. Hit a strong thunderstorm that put a good amount of water on the highway. The tire broke traction while doing a slight acceleration to get away from some tractor trailer rigs that were blowing out a good amount of spray. It did take me by surprise and I was able to easily duplicate the loss of traction in that same storm. I have not had that happen again.

MarkLawson
09-26-2014, 09:08 AM
It's a good fit on the Spyder for me. I ran it up thru Quebec last summer and it performed flawlessly, rain or shine. After I was happy, I went out and bought a second one so I'd have a "spare". Too bad they discontinued them. I'm on a hunt now for a new front, but there's no rush, the Kendas seem to be holding up fine now that we got the cupping straightened out.

I put the Michelin Defenders on my fronts. Went with the next size wider, which made them a pain to get into the fender opening, as the edge of the fender kept wanting to drop down into a tire groove. Would have been easy if I'd had a third hand! I have seen no issue with tire rub inside the fender.

When the time comes, I suspect I'll replace them more due to tire age & compound hardening rather than tread wear out.

MarkLawson
09-26-2014, 09:14 AM
I saw a report from Consumer Reports about a new Michelin tire (Premier A/S) that has excellent traction in both dry & wet conditions. Unlike most every other tire, this new tire retain ALL of it's wet/dry traction as the tread is wears. Most tires, if not all, lose wet traction as the tread depth decreases.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/08/tests-reveal-the-michelin-premier-as-tire-that-doesn-t-give-up-grip-as-it-wears/index.htm

When the time comes, I may be look at this new one as replacements if the sizes are available.

syclemom
09-26-2014, 09:24 AM
I have been missing for awhile due to family and work issues, am glad to see all the positive comments on the 215/60-15 Hydroedge, I was the guinnea pig that started this in 2010. We have since switched to the Altimax Rt mostly for availability and match to her Altimax Rt 175/65-14 fronts. Still running 21psi. front 17psi. rear she is now approaching 70000miles with "O" issues with what we were told was the first RTs sold in Texas on Jan.5, 2010 . We are heading to the Florida Keyes in a month or so and she will pull our Bunkhouse, That will be our S.E. corner since she rode it to Alaska a couple of years ago , it is very tempting to move her to a new 1330 trying to hold her off I told her we would talk about it at 100,000 miles, hers still uses next to no oil between changes been on Mobil 1 10w-40 since 2nd oil change.

MarkLawson
09-26-2014, 09:58 AM
I have been missing for awhile due to family and work issues, am glad to see all the positive comments on the 215/60-15 Hydroedge, I was the guinnea pig that started this in 2010. We have since switched to the Altimax Rt mostly for availability and match to her Altimax Rt 175/65-14 fronts. Still running 21psi. front 17psi. rear she is now approaching 70000miles with "O" issues with what we were told was the first RTs sold in Texas on Jan.5, 2010 . We are heading to the Florida Keyes in a month or so and she will pull our Bunkhouse, That will be our S.E. corner since she rode it to Alaska a couple of years ago , it is very tempting to move her to a new 1330 trying to hold her off I told her we would talk about it at 100,000 miles, hers still uses next to no oil between changes been on Mobil 1 10w-40 since 2nd oil change.

I do recall a post about someone riding to Alaska and back running the HydroEdge 213/60R15 and having no Nanny issues. That was the post that convinced me to go with it. Thanks for mentoring me!

BLUEKNIGHT911
09-26-2014, 12:09 PM
I do recall a post about someone riding to Alaska and back running the HydroEdge 213/60R15 and having no Nanny issues. That was the post that convinced me to go with it. Thanks for mentoring me!....................IMHO.....( not as a Forum God :roflblack: ) I doubt very highly that there is any tire that will fit the OEM RIM that could possibly cause any problems with the " NANNY "..................Simply because the tire sizes available are limited........Remember it's more than just the Diameter of the Rim ....you also have to consider the Rim WIDTH...............just sayin.....Mike :thumbup:

MarkLawson
09-26-2014, 12:27 PM
....................IMHO.....( not as a Forum God :roflblack: ) I doubt very highly that there is any tire that will fit the OEM RIM that could possibly cause any problems with the " NANNY "..................Simply because the tire sizes available are limited........Remember it's more than just the Diameter of the Rim ....you also have to consider the Rim WIDTH...............just sayin.....Mike :thumbup:

This tire is a different size than the OEM. It is "taller", giving it a larger circumference. As such, it rolls fewer revolutions than the OEM for the same distance traveled. As such, the Nanny can receive data from a wrong sized tire that will cause undesirable error conditions.

A few years back, my dealer had a Spyder in the shop for a couple of weeks that totally baffled them. It kept throwing error codes that they would run the prescribed diagnostics, find no problems, clear the codes, take for a test ride, only to have the same codes pop up. They finally called BRP tech support and was asked if the rear tire was a size different than the OEM, which it was, having been mounted just before the problem started. The new tire was swapped for one the proper size and the errors ceased. Nanny issues can be caused by wrong sized tires, so you must be careful with your selection.

Highwayman2013
09-26-2014, 12:47 PM
Over 5,000 miles on my "wrong size" tire and the nanny is still asleep. The 215/60/15 works well for me and all the people that want to run the stock tire can run the stock tire.

syclemom
09-26-2014, 03:01 PM
I can tell you OVER 50,000mi. with 215/60-15 has never once had a nanny problem , think computer looks for DIFFERENCE in wheel speed once rolling to control traction, abs and diff. between front tires for stability control. "0" issues to date.

BLUEKNIGHT911
09-26-2014, 05:00 PM
This tire is a different size than the OEM. It is "taller", giving it a larger circumference. As such, it rolls fewer revolutions than the OEM for the same distance traveled. As such, the Nanny can receive data from a wrong sized tire that will cause undesirable error conditions.

A few years back, my dealer had a Spyder in the shop for a couple of weeks that totally baffled them. It kept throwing error codes that they would run the prescribed diagnostics, find no problems, clear the codes, take for a test ride, only to have the same codes pop up. They finally called BRP tech support and was asked if the rear tire was a size different than the OEM, which it was, having been mounted just before the problem started. The new tire was swapped for one the proper size and the errors ceased. Nanny issues can be caused by wrong sized tires, so you must be careful with your selection.
:gaah:......BRP, the company and the people who work for them are only going to approve the KENDA tire .......PERIOD..........anything else technically violates the Warranty ....so do you think BRP is going to take that position...............and I stand by my earlier statement ..........There are no 14 or 15 inch Diameter tires that will fit the OEM RIMS ( the width ) that are going to cause a problem with the NANNY...........................However because I want to be absolutely positive on this I will check with TIRE RACK and find out if there are some really LARGE ...."ASPECT " ratio's in our sizes .......Mike :thumbup:

retired1
09-26-2014, 06:18 PM
I ordered a replacement tire for my '10 RTS over the phone. I was sure he repeated the correct size back to me. The tire came and I got an appointment to get it installed. My dealer got it installed and called me and said that the bike was throwing codes. It all boiled down to them shipping me a 225/60/15. A tire can be installed on the can am rim and it will screw things up.

MarkLawson
09-26-2014, 09:05 PM
:gaah:......BRP, the company and the people who work for them are only going to approve the KENDA tire .......PERIOD..........anything else technically violates the Warranty ....so do you think BRP is going to take that position...............and I stand by my earlier statement ..........There are no 14 or 15 inch Diameter tires that will fit the OEM RIMS ( the width ) that are going to cause a problem with the NANNY...........................However because I want to be absolutely positive on this I will check with TIRE RACK and find out if there are some really LARGE ...."ASPECT " ratio's in our sizes .......Mike :thumbup:

Not once did I talk about rim width. I was very clear concerning the circumference of the tire. You stand by your earlier statement if you want, but it is incorrect. I explained it and retired1 has also given an example of the wrong size causing codes.

BLUEKNIGHT911
09-26-2014, 11:09 PM
I ordered a replacement tire for my '10 RTS over the phone. I was sure he repeated the correct size back to me. The tire came and I got an appointment to get it installed. My dealer got it installed and called me and said that the bike was throwing codes. It all boiled down to them shipping me a 225/60/15. A tire can be installed on the can am rim and it will screw things up...............I said I was going to do some investigating on this tire size issue ....................Your dealer said the 225/60 -15 caused the Spyder to throw codes.....Well that tire turns 811 revs per mile ......................A 215/ 60-15 tire turns 827 revs per mile ( this tire does not throw codes ) ...........So your dealer is saying 16 revs per mile is going to upset the NANNY ......I think the either the dealer is BS'ing you or there is something else going wrong........it's not the size of the rear tire ...........................Lots of people here are putting on 215/60-15 michlein Hydro-edge tires and are not throwing codes ..............The difference in Diameter between the two is 4/10 ths of an inch..........................Mike :thumbup:

BLUEKNIGHT911
09-26-2014, 11:14 PM
Not once did I talk about rim width. I was very clear concerning the circumference of the tire. You stand by your earlier statement if you want, but it is incorrect. I explained it and retired1 has also given an example of the wrong size causing codes.
​....But I did because it's a very important part of the equation.........the RIM WIDTH limits how wide a tire can be put on a given RIM ie. you cannot fit a 225 tire onto a 5 inch rim...........And I answered retired1's tire issue with His dealer above ................Mike :thumbup:....................The numbers I quoted came from TIRE RACK web site.

retired1
09-27-2014, 07:23 AM
What looks good on paper doesn't always work when put into practice.

sddinnh
09-27-2014, 07:45 AM
Lord knows I'm no expert on what the nanny will or will not accept as far as tires go. :dontknow: I just know that I'm completely happy with the 215/60/15 Hydroedge on the RT and will continue running it until I run thru the two I have. :thumbup: I've had no nanny issues (and I've pushed this tire hard), no hydroplaning issues (although I haven't run in any really deluge type conditions), and the wear seems to be within acceptable limits. IF I trade for an F3, I will run out the Kenda that comes with it and then put my spare Hydroedge on it too (if it fits). If not, I will decide then on what tire to use.

BLUEKNIGHT911
09-27-2014, 06:19 PM
What looks good on paper doesn't always work when put into practice.
:yikes:.........I just proved to you Mathematically that it was not the TIRE ...........if you think the Dealer is right and the math is wrong please prove it ..........How many threads / posts have seen on this Forum where the Dealer has lied .............................Iv'e seen dozens if not a couple hundred.................Mike :thumbup:

MarkLawson
09-27-2014, 07:32 PM
:yikes:.........I just proved to you Mathematically that it was not the TIRE ...........if you think the Dealer is right and the math is wrong please prove it ..........How many threads / posts have seen on this Forum where the Dealer has lied .............................Iv'e seen dozens if not a couple hundred.................Mike :thumbup:

YOU explain why when a wrong size tire that is mounted results in error codes and when the OEM size or one closer to the OEM size is mounted the codes stop.

This isn't rocket science. Part of the Nanny system includes monitoring wheel speed on each wheel. It is programmed to expect a limited range of variants between front/rear & left/right. When it sees something out of spec, it throws codes.

BLUEKNIGHT911
09-27-2014, 10:49 PM
YOU explain why when a wrong size tire that is mounted results in error codes and when the OEM size or one closer to the OEM size is mounted the codes stop.......My explanation is ......it wasn't the tire

This isn't rocket science. Part of the Nanny system includes monitoring wheel speed on each wheel. It is programmed to expect a limited range of variants between front/rear & left/right. When it sees something out of spec, it throws codes..................................Now my Question there are hundreds of Spyderlovers who are now and have been for quite some time using 215 /60-15 rear tires ......why arn't they throwing codes ??????????.........the difference between a 215 vs. 225 in 60 aspect ratio is about .025 % ................so I really don't think it's the tires.....................Question #2 , is it your opinion dealers and Their employee's are always truthful..................Mike :thumbup:

Roadster Renovations
09-28-2014, 07:37 AM
:banghead:

jcthorne
09-28-2014, 08:00 AM
Could it be that the 215/60 is taller than stock but just within the nanny range of acceptance and the 225/60, being just slightly taller plus variations between manufacturers actual sizes, puts the revs per mile just outside the range of nanny acceptability? Just guessing. Have others tried the 225/60 and found trouble or is this a one off case? Always good to have options and others would like to know where the limits are so as to choose wisely once we venture outside the BRP walled garden.

Lots of reports on the 215/60 working fine in a number of different brands. Very few reports on the 225/60 either way.

BLUEKNIGHT911
09-28-2014, 04:58 PM
Could it be that the 215/60 is taller than stock but just within the nanny range of acceptance and the 225/60, being just slightly taller plus variations between manufacturers actual sizes, puts the revs per mile just outside the range of nanny acceptability? Just guessing. Have others tried the 225/60 and found trouble or is this a one off case? Always good to have options and others would like to know where the limits are so as to choose wisely once we venture outside the BRP walled garden.

Lots of reports on the 215/60 working fine in a number of different brands. Very few reports on the 225/60 either way..............................JC, you are late to this party..............in my post # 58....I explained that according to the SPECS given by TIRE RACK the difference in revolutions per mile between the two tires is 16.....there is no way the NANNY can tell that small amount ..............811 vs. 827 ,revolutions .....per mile ....................I'm done with this now .....Mike :thumbup:

MarkLawson
09-28-2014, 05:16 PM
The OEM tire is 225/55R15, so the variance between that and the 215/60R15 tire we are discussing is not significant enough to trigger the nanny error code. I run the 215/60R15 HydroEdge myself & have for over 15,000 miles. Not only did I check into this before buying, I now have 2.5 years of riding on the different size to confirm the nanny is OK with it. I also found my speedometer is now never more than 1 MPH different than my Garmin Zumo 550 GPS, & often they read the same speed.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=78414&d=1383164913



The ratio for the second number (sidewall height) is NOT based on the rim width, but the tire tread width. While my sidewall height ratio ('60') is bigger than the OEM '55', my '215' width measurement is a bit smaller than the OEM '225' width, bringing it closer to the desired reading.

BLUEKNIGHT911
09-28-2014, 06:49 PM
The OEM tire is 225/55R15, so the variance between that and the 215/60R15 tire we are discussing is not significant enough to trigger the nanny error code. I run the 215/60R15 HydroEdge myself & have for over 15,000 miles. Not only did I check into this before buying, I now have 2.5 years of riding on the different size to confirm the nanny is OK with it. I also found my speedometer is now never more than 1 MPH different than my Garmin Zumo 550 GPS, & often they read the same speed.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=78414&d=1383164913



The ratio for the second number (sidewall height) is NOT based on the rim width, but the tire tread width. While my sidewall height ratio ('60') is bigger than the OEM '55', my '215' width measurement is a bit smaller than the OEM '225' width, bringing it closer to the desired reading........................................... .................................Mark ....what does this have to do with answering my post ( in answering your post ) to me .........or it's not supposed to be an answer to anything at all..............It's just a random statement ??????......Mike :thumbup:

Tango
09-28-2014, 07:05 PM
:banghead: :bdh:

MarkLawson
09-28-2014, 07:20 PM
.................................................. .........................Mark ....what does this have to do with answering my post ( in answering your post ) to me .........or it's not supposed to be an answer to anything at all..............It's just a random statement ??????......Mike :thumbup:

Just trying to hit all points. Was thinking about your rim width comment and thought maybe you were thinking the sidewall height spec was based on that.

I've concluded that while I know what I'm trying to say, I've obviously not understood what you're trying to tell me. For that, I apologize.

obiwan57
10-07-2014, 08:30 AM
Best replacement rear tire for Spyder. I have one and very happy with it.

How does that compare to the OEM size? In the owners manual they show 225/50R15.

tigerdr
10-07-2014, 08:41 AM
No comparison with the OEM. MICHELIN HydroEdge is the best tire on the market. This tire run smooth, excellent traction and very good grip in the curves.

No problem with the VSS, ABS, TC or other nannys....

IMHO, The OEM Kenda is the worst tire for the Spyder.

lyonsden
10-07-2014, 08:55 AM
Bob, I have 15,413 miles on my HydroEdge rear tire after about 2.5 years on the RT. It shows between 7 & 8 on the tread depth gauge. When I check the pressure, which isn't as often as it should be, I set it to run at 28 psi. Have not noticed any significant pressure loss, although I'm sure I make pressure adjustments when checking and needed.

Tire looks good.

I have had a significant hydroplaning incident not long after installing it. I was on the interstate and running around 70 mph pulling my loaded RT622 trailer. Hit a strong thunderstorm that put a good amount of water on the highway. The tire broke traction while doing a slight acceleration to get away from some tractor trailer rigs that were blowing out a good amount of spray. It did take me by surprise and I was able to easily duplicate the loss of traction in that same storm. I have not had that happen again.I was one that touted the Hydroedge also. It wears like iron. It is good in light rain. In August we went to Yellowstone and just out of Rapid City SD ran into very hard rain. My wife and I ride a 2011 RT with 622 trailer. It hydroplaned really BAD!! Could not drive over 50 miles an hour. Long story short, I don't ride in much rain, usually light rain. But on a long trip it is beyond your control. I plan to continue to run the HydroEdge because of the wear being so good. But if ever I go on a long trip again (2 weeks) I will put the original tire back on. Hydroplaning scared the SH*T out of me.

BLUEKNIGHT911
10-07-2014, 10:01 AM
I was one that touted the Hydroedge also. It wears like iron. It is good in light rain. In August we went to Yellowstone and just out of Rapid City SD ran into very hard rain. My wife and I ride a 2011 RT with 622 trailer. It hydroplaned really BAD!! Could not drive over 50 miles an hour. Long story short, I don't ride in much rain, usually light rain. But on a long trip it is beyond your control. I plan to continue to run the HydroEdge because of the wear being so good. But if ever I go on a long trip again (2 weeks) I will put the original tire back on. Hydroplaning scared the SH*T out of me.
:lecturef_smilie:........When I was an LEO I went to school and learned about Hydroplaning in regards to accident investigation....It was extensively covered by some experts in the field.....The most important thing I learned was this :::..All tires can and will Hydroplane under the right circumstances. " lyonsden " if you think under the circumstances you described the OEM tire would not have Hydroplaned, you are mistaken. It is really a question of " WHEN " not if ......There are tires that are less prone to Hydroplaning ( winter tires, as an extreme example ) but even the Best of them lose their "edge" so to speak as the tread wears......IMHO, the largest factor in the Hydroplaning issue is the Spyder itself . The lighter the vehicle the more prone it is to " float " and what gives the Spyder great lateral traction ( holding ability in turning ) is the large "foot print " the tires have. This combination has more to do with "Hydroplaning" than the exact type of tire you have on the Spyder. Don't run any tires past the useful life of the tread ( because they will Hydro first ) and drive Smart.....When conditions deteriorate act accordingly and expect the " UNEXPECTED " .....This was not meant as a lecture, I just hope this helps everyone understand ...." HYDROPLANING " a little better .......Mike :thumbup:

sduskin
10-07-2014, 10:22 AM
On my 2014 RT-S the OEM tire is 225/50R15 per the Can-Am website. The Michellin that folks are talking about is 215/60R15. Right?

So, What the numbers mean is:
- tread section is 225 millimeters in width
- sidewall height is 50% of the tread section measurement so 112.5 millimeters in height
- R means its a radial tire
- and 15 is the rim diameter in inches

These number are for an unmounted and unloaded tire.

So going from a 112.5mm sidewall (the 50%) height to a 129mm sidewall (the 60%) height makes the unloaded unmounted tire about 16.5mm wider from the center of the axle to the edge of the tire. This is just over 1/2 inch. Going to the 225/60R15 will change the same measurement by 22.5mm. About 1 inch.

What I am driving at is this - if the "nanny" allow up to a 10% variance for treadwear, over/under-pressure, etc. then the 215/60R15's probably will NOT trigger the codes. Conversely, I can easily see the 225/60R15 causing issues as it is at the 10% variance I am assuming the nanny has.

I am new to Spyders and as I have almost 3700 miles on my current rear tire I read everyone's comments very thoroughly. I will probably have to my tire relatively soon.

I think it would be VERY interesting to have round-table discussions with the various engineers at BRP as to why they did some of the things they did...

Thank you, everyone for your insights, opinions, and responses.

BLUEKNIGHT911
10-07-2014, 11:59 AM
On my 2014 RT-S the OEM tire is 225/50R15 per the Can-Am website. The Michellin that folks are talking about is 215/60R15. Right?

So, What the numbers mean is:
- tread section is 225 millimeters in width
- sidewall height is 50% of the tread section measurement so 112.5 millimeters in height
- R means its a radial tire
- and 15 is the rim diameter in inches

These number are for an unmounted and unloaded tire.

So going from a 112.5mm sidewall (the 50%) height to a 129mm sidewall (the 60%) height makes the unloaded unmounted tire about 16.5mm wider from the center of the axle to the edge of the tire. This is just over 1/2 inch. Going to the 225/60R15 will change the same measurement by 22.5mm. About 1 inch.

What I am driving at is this - if the "nanny" allow up to a 10% variance for treadwear, over/under-pressure, etc. then the 215/60R15's probably will NOT trigger the codes. Conversely, I can easily see the 225/60R15 causing issues as it is at the 10% variance I am assuming the nanny has.

I am new to Spyders and as I have almost 3700 miles on my current rear tire I read everyone's comments very thoroughly. I will probably have to my tire relatively soon.

I think it would be VERY interesting to have round-table discussions with the various engineers at BRP as to why they did some of the things they did...

Thank you, everyone for your insights, opinions, and responses.:hun:..........Lots of numbers here ....to simplify are you saying the difference between a 215/60 and a 225/60 tire, is 1/2 inch in height ( measured from the axel ) ..........IMHO I don't think so and I don't think the difference what ever it is .....is enough to trigger the Nanny ......Mike :thumbup:

lyonsden
10-07-2014, 01:43 PM
:lecturef_smilie:........When I was an LEO I went to school and learned about Hydroplaning in regards to accident investigation....It was extensively covered by some experts in the field.....The most important thing I learned was this :::..All tires can and will Hydroplane under the right circumstances. " lyonsden " if you think under the circumstances you described the OEM tire would not have Hydroplaned, you are mistaken. It is really a question of " WHEN " not if ......There are tires that are less prone to Hydroplaning ( winter tires, as an extreme example ) but even the Best of them lose their "edge" so to speak as the tread wears......IMHO, the largest factor in the Hydroplaning issue is the Spyder itself . The lighter the vehicle the more prone it is to " float " and what gives the Spyder great lateral traction ( holding ability in turning ) is the large "foot print " the tires have. This combination has more to do with "Hydroplaning" than the exact type of tire you have on the Spyder. Don't run any tires past the useful life of the tread ( because they will Hydro first ) and drive Smart.....When conditions deteriorate act accordingly and expect the " UNEXPECTED " .....This was not meant as a lecture, I just hope this helps everyone understand ...." HYDROPLANING " a little better .......Mike :thumbup:I don't take it as a lecture. I appreciate the information. I am basing my opinion on my own experiences. When I had the OEM tire on and it had about 4000 miles on it we came back from Spyderfest in pouring down rain. 2 up pulling the trailer. I zoomed along at 65 to 68 mph no problems at all. (I will say between me an my wife we weighed about 100 lbs more at this time.) When that same tire was bald in the center I rode it to Sioux Falls SD in the rain 1 up and it hydroplaned bad. The hydroedge hydroplaned really bad in HEAVY rain and still had lots of tread. So, is it the tire or less weight, I don't know for sure. I do know it is not something I want to experience again so I will be putting the OEM tire back on for long trips.

jcoe
05-30-2016, 07:20 PM
Where can I purchase this tire at? Went on the Amazon site and ask me to verify the auto first before allowing me to purchase it.

John:doorag:

bluep
05-31-2016, 12:06 PM
Seeing as how the Hydro edge is discontinued how about the Defender as a replacement??? I got a Defender 215/60/15 but it appears to be much taller then the stock tire at 225/50/15.
My stock tire lasted 7300 mi. I replaced it with a Somomoto 215/60/15. But as I remember the Somo was vary close to the same highth and circumference as the stock 225/50/15.
When I stand the new Michelin Defender beside the original worn out stock tire the defender is a good 1.25 inches taller. Of course the stock tire is worn out and the defender is new and never mounted yet.
Is anybody running the Michelin Defender 215/60/15 at present time yet.
The Somomoto is a 75000 mi. tire. I now have 42000 mi on it Has worked great. Getting worn down, thinking of replacing with the Michelin Defender
My bike is 2014 RT-S

PW2013STL
06-01-2016, 11:57 AM
I am running the Michelin Premier A/S in 205/60-15 and so far (4000+ miles) it has performed fantastic. Very stable in rain including very hard rain and winds encountered on our way to Spyderfest. With the 205 compared to the 225 you louse 1" total with, but you will never miss it.


From Michelin website-
"Safe When New. Safe When Worn. Even when half-worn, it's still safe thanks to EverGrip wet-braking technology. The MICHELIN® Premier® A/S tire still stops shorter on wet roads than leading competitors’ brand-new tires"

Hey Yu
06-02-2016, 08:19 PM
New tread depth .360
Tread depth after 2500 miles .330
difference .030

Estimated life .360 / .030 * 2500 = 30,800

So far tire handles nicely and good in rain

Tread wear is not a constant. As the tire wears out the more rapidly is wears. Mileage will, most likely, be closer to 15-20k.

Highwayman2013
06-02-2016, 08:35 PM
Just to add to the fun, 19,000 miles on my 215/60/15 Michelin Primacy 6/32 of tread left and no: rubbing, scrubbing or hydroplaning.

Wildrice
06-21-2016, 12:07 PM
.................................Now my Question there are hundreds of Spyderlovers who are now and have been for quite some time using 215 /60-15 rear tires ......why arn't they throwing codes ??????????.........the difference between a 215 vs. 225 in 60 aspect ratio is about .025 % ................so I really don't think it's the tires.....................Question #2 , is it your opinion dealers and Their employee's are always truthful..................Mike :thumbup:

The monitoring pick up sensor is not on the wheel--it's closer to the rim. Thus if all 3 tires have a larger diameter rubber the only error one will see is on the speedo. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Benggolf
04-16-2018, 10:41 PM
Looks I will need to replace the rear tire on our 2014 RT Limited soon and from what I read here, the Michelin HydroEdge Radial Tire - 215/60R15 93T is the tire of choice.

Has this tire been discontinued? If so, what would be the closest equivalent be?

Thank you in advance for your kind help.

BLUEKNIGHT911
04-16-2018, 11:24 PM
Looks I will need to replace the rear tire on our 2014 RT Limited soon and from what I read here, the Michelin HydroEdge Radial Tire - 215/60R15 93T is the tire of choice.

Has this tire been discontinued? If so, what would be the closest equivalent be?

Thank you in advance for your kind help.If you search on-line you might be able to find one ....however it will be at least 4 yrs old .... which is not terrible .... but it's getting there ..... Michelin has two tires that might actually be better than the Hydro-Edge ..... the Premier A/S ....and the New Defender T & H .....both are only available in 205/60-15 size but this isn't really an issue .......... both have excellent ratings and I would buy either one ..... Mike ......PS use a psi of 18 and they will preform at their best on any Spyder ................Mike :thumbup:

Benggolf
04-16-2018, 11:32 PM
If you search on-line you might be able to find one ....however it will be at least 4 yrs old .... which is not terrible .... but it's getting there ..... Michelin has two tires that might actually be better than the Hydro-Edge ..... the Premier A/S ....and the New Defender T & H .....both are only available in 205/60-15 size but this isn't really an issue .......... both have excellent ratings and I would buy either one ..... Mike ......PS use a psi of 18 and they will preform at their best on any Spyder ................Mike :thumbup:


Thank you for your advice Blueknight911. Much appreciated.
I just came across a couple of Michelin HydroEdge 215/60R16 94T (not 93T). What does 93T stand for?
Will the 215/60R16 94T tire work?

They are asking $157.00 with free shipping. Reasonable? Thanks again for helping out. :bowdown:

PW2013STL
04-17-2018, 05:44 AM
Thank you for your advice Blueknight911. Much appreciated.
I just came across a couple of Michelin HydroEdge 215/60R16 94T (not 93T). What does 93T stand for?
Will the 215/60R16 94T tire work?

They are asking $157.00 with free shipping. Reasonable? Thanks again for helping out. :bowdown:


The 215/60R16will not work. You need a 15. The last number refers to the diameter (or rim size).

As for the 93T or 94T that refers to the load rating. Heather would have a bearing on a Spyder as both exceed the weight of a Spyder.

Benggolf
04-17-2018, 10:43 AM
The 215/60R16will not work. You need a 15. The last number refers to the diameter (or rim size).

As for the 93T or 94T that refers to the load rating. Heather would have a bearing on a Spyder as both exceed the weight of a Spyder.



Thank you PW2013STL for the clarification on what 93T and 94T is.
Yes, you are right on the rim size; my typo-error. :thumbup:

UtahPete
04-17-2018, 11:00 AM
If you search on-line you might be able to find one ....however it will be at least 4 yrs old .... which is not terrible .... but it's getting there ..... Michelin has two tires that might actually be better than the Hydro-Edge ..... the Premier A/S ....and the New Defender T & H .....both are only available in 205/60-15 size but this isn't really an issue .......... both have excellent ratings and I would buy either one ..... Mike ......PS use a psi of 18 and they will preform at their best on any Spyder ................Mike :thumbup:
Good to know, Mike.

larryd
05-20-2018, 11:28 AM
I put a new Michelin Hydroedge 215/60R15 rear tire on my 2014 RTS at 6800 miles...It had 12/32" of tread in the center straight groove...At 15,500 it had 9/32" AND now at 22,000 it has 7/32"...It has 15,200 miles of use and has gone down 5/32 of an inch...So if everything keeps going at the same rate i should see about 30,000 miles on this tire...Which I think is GOOD...larryd

BLUEKNIGHT911
05-20-2018, 11:30 AM
I put a new Michelin Hydroedge 215/60R15 rear tire on my 2014 RTS at 6800 miles...It had 12/32" of tread in the center straight groove...At 15,500 it had 9/32" AND now at 22,000 it has 7/32"...It has 15,200 miles of use and has gone down 5/32 of an inch...So if everything keeps going at the same rate i should see about 30,000 miles on this tire...Which I think is GOOD...larryd
Mine is at 37,000 + and I'm not changing it soon .............. What psi are you running ?????? Thanks ..Mike :thumbup:

larryd
05-20-2018, 11:46 AM
Mine is at 37,000 + and I'm not changing it soon .............. What psi are you running ?????? Thanks ..Mike :thumbup:


I try to set mine at 22 psi cold...The read wear is even across the full width of the tread...I always ride 2 up and frequently pull a trailer...

BLUEKNIGHT911
05-20-2018, 12:36 PM
I try to set mine at 22 psi cold...The read wear is even across the full width of the tread...I always ride 2 up and frequently pull a trailer...
OK, but I have mine at 17 psi and I'm very happy with traction and Comfort level that it provides .... tires are part of the suspension system .........and a tire designed to support 1500lbs +/- isn't going to be under-inflated at 17 psi, even with a Full load plus the trailer ( 40lb tongue weight )............. :agree: road surfaces differ and that will have more effect on wear than reasonable psi numbers ...... Thanks ..... Mike :thumbup:

Roadster Renovations
05-20-2018, 02:33 PM
We put a Michelin Hydroedge on in later 2014. We now have 42,000 miles on it and it still is good for at least another 5,000 miles at least. Sure wish they still made this tire.