Less oil recommended

[Questions]

Had my 2014 RT-S in for 9000 mile service yesterday. Tech informed me that BRP now wants one quart of oil less than manual calls for. When checking, the oil should be just above the minimum mark. (This from BRP).
They claim it will add significant power to the engine. He advised me to pay close attention on the way home for an increase. I truly noticed an increase in engine response.
I will follow their instructions.
I trust my tech.
Just thought I would let everyone know.

[StanProff]

I'd wait for a factory notice on this.

[DrewNJ]

Interesting because that IS the case with their inline 3 motors in the seadoos.

[gypsy_100]

Had my 2014 RT-S in for 9000 mile service yesterday. Tech informed me that BRP now wants one quart of oil less than manual calls for. When checking, the oil should be just above the minimum mark. (This from BRP).
They claim it will add significant power to the engine. He advised me to pay close attention on the way home for an increase. I truly noticed an increase in engine response.
I will follow their instructions.
I trust my tech.
Just thought I would let everyone know.

That's a huge difference in oil level. Makes you wonder how BRP could be so far off in their original determination. Doesn't make any sense to me. That's one quart less in the reservoir; the dry sump system will keep circulating the same amount of oil thru the engine regardless. So how could the amount in the reservoir have any influence on performance? Someone needs to enlighten me.

On the other hand, I know the dealership and the tech's Dana and Tom do all the BRP work. Dana's the lead and very much in touch with BRP. Also very conservative and would not do anything that would go against factory spec's. He must be putting forth the straight story from BRP. Will be interesting to see what BRP comes out with for the average owner. If you keep it at or just above the minimum, does that mean you have to be ultra careful about not letting it drop any further? Or have they also reduced the minimum? That doesn't seem likely.

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: My technician made no mention of this, and I just had the service done this morning... :D

[billybovine]

That's a huge difference in oil level. Makes you wonder how BRP could be so far off in their original determination. Doesn't make any sense to me. That's one quart less in the reservoir; the dry sump system will keep circulating the same amount of oil thru the engine regardless. So how could the amount in the reservoir have any influence on performance? Someone needs to enlighten me.

On the other hand, I know the dealership and the tech's Dana and Tom do all the BRP work. Dana's the lead and very much in touch with BRP. Also very conservative and would not do anything that would go against factory spec's. He must be putting forth the straight story from BRP. Will be interesting to see what BRP comes out with for the average owner. If you keep it at or just above the minimum, does that mean you have to be ultra careful about not letting it drop any further? Or have they also reduced the minimum? That doesn't seem likely.

Interesting development. I would be interested in seeing a service bulletin on this. :agree: I do not understand how 1 less quart in the oil tank will make any difference in performance on a dry sump engine. Would really be interested in the technical explanation. Now if this is correct and BRP wants a lower oil level it's time for a new longer dipstick.

[Bob Denman]

We'll have to watch for a T.S.B. regarding this item. :D

[Questions]

My tech did say that BRP told him more oil would not hurt anything. So perhaps if concerned, keep it a little higher on the dip stick.
I am going with his recommendation.

[ChasCS]

They said that nothing has been sent to them, so they are filling them to the line as per usual.

This is also likely if true, only for the RT models, so wouldn't affect my RS-S anyway?

Chas

[KX5062]

They said that nothing has been sent to them, so they are filling them to the line as per usual.

This is also likely if true, only for the RT models, so wouldn't affect my RS-S anyway?

Chas

No. Different engine.

[ChasCS]

Yep, slightly better performance for the inline three 1330, not our v-twin 998cc bad boys...

That's ok with me. I have plenty of "get up & get the heck out of Dodge', already... ;-)


Chas

[Chupaca]

wait for the bulletin..or have the shop show you where it says that. A quart is a lot even if that engine hold so much more...:dontknow:

[Lamonster]

He may be mistaken. They did change the spec on the amount of oil to be used in the 1330. What they said was as much as a liter too much oil can cause a 30% loss of power. The marks from full to low is 1/2 a quart so 1 full quart would not show on the dip stick.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=93487&d=1408479900

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for the confirmation! :thumbup:
Will we see folks draining oil out next SpyderFest at the track? :D

[DrewNJ]

Is the 1330 a dry sump motor with an oil tank?

[Bob Denman]

Yup! :D

[DrewNJ]

Interesting. Oil level shouldn't be that critical then. Compared to the seadoo skis where there is no oil tank. Oil level is very critical in relation to max rpms.

[OwnerOfHarriet]

on the 2014 RT LT I check it when the engine is warm/hot -- it will be at the full mark -- on the new bike after 3000 miles it did not need any oil added --

[Roadster Renovations]

Could the difference in oil level have an effect on the transmission? I agree an oil tank/dry sump system with reduced oil level shouldn't effect engine performance in any way. Isn't there a BRP rep on here? Maybe he could find out and let us know.

[Bob Denman]

How'd you get the oil out? nojoke
I'm wondering about the process, because I'm normally not up to the skill levels required... :opps:

[bgame]

If all this is true....BRP had better replace all the 1330 dip sticks....

[bluestratos]

If I understand Lamont correctly, there is no concern, things have not changed.

[bgame]

If I understand Lamont correctly, there is no concern, things have not changed.

From5.3L to 4.7L looks like a difference to me that is on the SE6

[bgame]

I was wondering if people were putting all the oil that is in the BRP oil kit. That might cause a problem since the kit has 6.6L of oil in it.... I can see where someone might think... it's a kit so I'll put it all in.... just a thought...

[Bob Denman]

I've got a Turkey Baster here, with a hunk of fuel line attached... :thumbup:
Thanks! :D
I figured it best to double-check, before giving it a try... :D

[bluestratos]

I meant the reading on the stick, it still should read no more than Max correct?

From5.3L to 4.7L looks like a difference to me that is on the SE6

[bgame]

I meant the reading on the stick, it still should read no more than Max correct?

The way I understand it max will be at the bottom add mark....

[bluestratos]

I would want to hear more on this before I lower the oil level. I am slightly high now (over max when fully warmed up) so I may take it down to the half way mark to see what happens.

[KX5062]

I too am not going to mess with it unless BRP puts it out in writing. I don't want to take any risks with my extended warranty. :lecturef_smilie:

[Jim&Teresa]

I was always taught to always keep the oil at the correct level in any engine I owned.

BRP should provide owners directly with critical info like this to maintain their vehicle to the correct oil levels and provide a new dipstick to insure we NOW have the correct amount of oil in them, not just at the next oil change. :lecturef_smilie:

It also bothers me that we could see 30% loss of power due to too much oil - wow! What, if any, damage or excess stresses is the engine going through that provides that much power drop? Very concerned on this one! :shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked:

I appreciate Lamont providing the oil capacity info and details on his 8-19-14 post! :clap:These are Lamont's comments:
"He may be mistaken. They did change the spec on the amount of oil to be used in the 1330. What they said was as much as a liter too much oil can cause a 30% loss of power. The marks from full to low is 1/2 a quart so 1 full quart would not show on the dip stick."
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=93487&d=1408479900



I think I'm running it on the full mark when bike has run for a long run....with that said, I must have too much oil in the bike by doing due diligence on the oil level! Wow, that's hard to take.....do I reduce the current oil level knowing it may not show on the dipstick? Do I reduce the current oil level as I maybe losing as much as 30% power? Again, very concerned when reading this!

The "real question" is: Where on the dipstick should the oil level be when you have a warmed up bike? The dipstick, I believe has a section on it below the low oil mark...so we could measure it.

Best results would be to know for sure what the oil level spec is (directly from BRP) before doing anything, then BRP to provide us the proper oil dipstick!

You thoughts/comments welcome! :thumbup:

[bluestratos]

I hope someone can provide a definitive answer:


Using the supplied dipstick it should read between the low and high marks but not higher (yes/no)
Reduce the oil lever to read full at the bottom of the dipstick (hard to believe) (yes/no)

Thanks

[ulflyer]

With 10k on the bike now, and several oil changes done, I don't know what all the fuss is about. It has more power than
I know what to do with as it is.

I run mine with it showing to the full mark when its hot and until I hear something definite from BRP or a TSB from my dealer, thats where its gonna stay.

If it makes you feel better, run it with it showing just on the tip of the stick. Won't matter one bit to the engine or transmission.

[gypsy_100]

OK. I talked directly with the tech and the service manager at the dealer where this controversy started. The information the tech now has from BRP is the same as in Lamont’s post – 4.7 liters SE, 4.9 liters SE plus HCM filter, 4.5 liters SM. He said that when you fill it with those quantities, then ride it and check it hot, his experience so far shows a dipstick reading just above minimum. There is no reduction beyond those stated numbers.

The confusion about whether this is a reduction or not comes from other info where BRP said to put 5.6 liters in an SE for a full change. The info in the owner’s manual (from the BRP website) shows the following (pasted directly from the owner’s manual):

SM6 Model
12. Pour 4.9 L (5.2 qt (U.S. liq.)) of the
recommended oil into the engine.

SE6 Model
13. Pour 5.3 L (5.6 qt (U.S. liq.)) of the
recommended oil into the engine.

NOTE: For SE6 model, when the the
HCM oil filter is also replaced, the
total oil quantity to add will be 5.6 L
(5.9 qt (U.S. liq.)).

The reduction from 5.6 liters full-blown SE oil change to 4.9 liters is a reduction of about 0.7 quarts. The info the tech got from BRP said that this extra 0.7 quarts could cause a reduction in power, as Lamont indicated. The key as the tech said is 1) use the numbers Lamont posted, 2) check it hot after a ride, and 3) keep it above the minimum.

Still seems to leave unanswered questions such as will they change the owner’s manual, and is there a change in the allowable range? If 4.9 liters is optimum and what you fill it with, how low can you go as oil is consumed? Are you flirting with too low and must be extra vigilant about keeping it above the minimum?

Hope this provided some clarification.

[bluestratos]

Ok, keep it just above minimum so it shows on the stick. Thanks for the info! :rolleyes:

[bluestratos]

Well I pulled out 24 ounces to get it so it is just reading above the add mark. I guess I will see if there is any difference.

Regards,

[bgame]

I removed 22 oz. can tell no difference in power...

[ChrisCFPS]

Lamont's post has the correct info. BRP has not put out an advisory to customers because nothing has actually changed. The oil level should still be checked the same way that it always has been and the oil level should still remain between the min and max marks. There was a typo in the quantities to refill with and that is what the technician was referring to. If you did the oil change the proper way and added the "old" published amount WITHOUT checking the dipstick, you would probably end up over full. Then you might see a loss in power due to the excess oil.

It is not saying to run less oil to get more horsepower.

It is not saying that the dipstick is wrong.

Keep checking your oil the published way as you always have and your Spyder will be perfect :D

[bgame]

He may be mistaken. They did change the spec on the amount of oil to be used in the 1330. What they said was as much as a liter too much oil can cause a 30% loss of power. The marks from full to low is 1/2 a quart so 1 full quart would not show on the dip stick.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=93487&d=1408479900Ok someone explain to me what is a HCM surface filter... it says oil filter and HCM surface filter... have look at the engine break down and can find nothing about it...

[billybovine]

You would think the HCM filter is on the HCM not the engine. Since there is no exploded view of the HCM it's going to be real hard to find.

Memo to BRP you are calling it the HCM again after calling it the TCM for a couple years. Choose one stick with it.

[billybovine]

The HCM was listed under Clutch Cover. Well hidden. That's it #16. $124.99 CAD. Likely $99.99 for you folks below the border.

[ulflyer]

OK. I talked directly with the tech and the service manager at the dealer where this controversy started. The information the tech now has from BRP is the same as in Lamont’s post – 4.7 liters SE, 4.9 liters SE plus HCM filter, 4.5 liters SM. He said that when you fill it with those quantities, then ride it and check it hot, his experience so far shows a dipstick reading just above minimum. There is no reduction beyond those stated numbers.

The confusion about whether this is a reduction or not comes from other info where BRP said to put 5.6 liters in an SE for a full change. The info in the owner’s manual (from the BRP website) shows the following (pasted directly from the owner’s manual):

SM6 Model
12. Pour 4.9 L (5.2 qt (U.S. liq.)) of the
recommended oil into the engine.

SE6 Model
13. Pour 5.3 L (5.6 qt (U.S. liq.)) of the
recommended oil into the engine.

NOTE: For SE6 model, when the the
HCM oil filter is also replaced, the
total oil quantity to add will be 5.6 L
(5.9 qt (U.S. liq.)).

The reduction from 5.6 liters full-blown SE oil change to 4.9 liters is a reduction of about 0.7 quarts. The info the tech got from BRP said that this extra 0.7 quarts could cause a reduction in power, as Lamont indicated. The key as the tech said is 1) use the numbers Lamont posted, 2) check it hot after a ride, and 3) keep it above the minimum.

Still seems to leave unanswered questions such as will they change the owner’s manual, and is there a change in the allowable range? If 4.9 liters is optimum and what you fill it with, how low can you go as oil is consumed? Are you flirting with too low and must be extra vigilant about keeping it above the minimum?

Hope this provided some clarification.

I changed mine today with Motul 7100 which came in Liter bottles and put in exactly 5 Liters rather than trying to measure out some small amount . After running it, the oil level is exactly on the middle bulb of the stick. Previously I had used 5.6 qts which put it at the top of the stick.

Correction: After a longer run today it checked out about 3/16th inch above the center bulb on the stick, rather than right on the bulb
as I previously reported.

[A1A]

I'm wondering why anyone would not change the HCM surface filter on the SE6. When doing a 9,300 mile oil service?

4.7L without HCM surface filter change SE6.
4.9 with HCM surface filter change SE6.

[A1A]

Similar to changing the automatic transmission filter in a car at each manufacturer recommended engine oil change. Granted the Spyder willbe more contaminated since the system is shared engine gearbox. However the fluid is changed more frequently than a car would be based on oem recommended intervals.

PK

Do they reccomed changing the HCM surface filter SE6 during the 3,000 mile break-in oil sevice?

[A1A]

No, 28k miles.

The list of items for each mileage or calender time is published in the owners manual.

PK

I still have my 2012 RTS-SE5, but seriously considering a 2014 RTS-SE6.:spyder2:

[Jim&Teresa]

The dealer performed the first oil change and service at 3,000 miles. This time, I changed the oil and filter and utilized the new recommended oil amounts shown below (per Lamont's post #13 on this thread):

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=93487&d=1408479900

4.7L = 5 quarts and that's what I put into the engine. Just got back from a 30 mile run and checked oil level.


FYI - oil level on dipstick: It is showing at the "low" mark on the dipstick.

Since the 2014 RT has been AWESOME and has not used a drop of oil, I will monitor this level and insure it does not go below that mark. IF this is the new recommended oil level, then why do we use "old" measuring dipsticks. It would seem a new dipstick by BRP is in order here to insure we follow proper oil levels in our engines on the 1330's. IMHO !

[Jim&Teresa]

The dealer performed the first oil change and service at 3,000 miles. This time, I changed the oil and filter and utilized the new recommended oil amounts shown below (per Lamont's post #13 on this thread):

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=93487&d=1408479900

4.7L = 5 quarts and that's what I put into the engine. Just got back from a 30 mile run and checked oil level.


FYI - oil level on dipstick: It is showing at the "low" mark on the dipstick.

Since the 2014 RT has been AWESOME and has not used a drop of oil, I will monitor this level and insure it does not go below that mark. IF this is the new recommended oil level, then why do we use "old" measuring dipsticks. It would seem a new dipstick by BRP is in order here to insure we follow proper oil levels in our engines on the 1330's. IMHO !

Hi all, I think I damaged the transmission drain plug using a T40 Torx on it. I ordered a new drain plug as I don't want to deal with that one again...It was "mushy" when taking it off and I used a torque wrench, to spec, putting it on.

I received the new one today and it IS a 6MM allen that is the correct wrench size for the transmission drain plug based on this replacement plug received.

The engine drain plug T45 Torx worked perfectly.

FYI....good luck! :thumbup:

Here's a few pictures of my new transmission drain plug:

[BajaRon]

You have to wonder why a dry sump system would be this sensitive to oil level in the reservoir tank. But then all dry sump systems have a fill level so there must be something to it. The SE's seem to be more sensitive to oil levels than the SM's.

You'd think that BRP would have this kind of thing ironed out long before production begins. But things can get lost in the shuffle at times.

The service kits sold by BRP would certainly lead you to believe that you needed more oil than you do. Maybe the extra quart is intended for topping off during the 9,000 mile service interval. But 2 full quarts on the SE's seems a bit much.

I have been quoting pricing for the wrong amount of Amsoil needed. I should have checked the the service specs and not gone with the service kit amounts.

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd365/BajaRon/Spyder/1330_zpsps5va2qq.jpg~original

[SpyderAnn01]

Ron, thanks for resurrecting this thread as I missed it when it first came out. Of course, I just changed my oil 2 days ago and used the full 5.2 quarts.

I'm surprised that they didn't mail a replacement page for the owners manual like they did back when they changed the torque specs several years ago.

[BajaRon]

Ron, thanks for resurrecting this thread as I missed it when it first came out. Of course, I just changed my oil 2 days ago and used the full 5.2 quarts.

I'm surprised that they didn't mail a replacement page for the owners manual like they did back when they changed the torque specs several years ago.

I missed this thread the 1st time as well. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more discussion about it as it seems somewhat important. I was referred to it by another SpyderRider or I'd still be in the dark!

[Orange Spyder Man]

I'll follow the owners manual recommendation until BRP changes what is printed in the manual.. warranty purposes... what's the old saying "CYA"

osm

[BajaRon]

I'll follow the owners manual recommendation until BRP changes what is printed in the manual.. warranty purposes... what's the old saying "CYA"

osm

A reasonable approach. But still doesn't explain 7 quarts in the SE6 oil change kit from BRP.

[wis2013rtltd]

could chime in and put this to rest. Would be nice to have the proper oil amount!!

[Doc - Riverside]

could chime in and put this to rest. Would be nice to have the proper oil amount!!

Steve went into great detail on the proper way to check the oil level and in post #23 he also published the correct oil capacity.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?73737-Proper-Oil-Level-Verification-Procedure-on-1330-engined-Spyders

[Questions]

I'll follow the owners manual recommendation until BRP changes what is printed in the manual.. warranty purposes... what's the old saying "CYA"

osm

BRP did send out a notice to dealers and techs, I think in March of 2014. They had a revised version of the service manual that was to be printed off. It had these changes published inside.

[Utahrider]

I thought I was seeing things when I checked my oil this past weekend. The oil did not even show in the Minimum range on the dip stick. Bought oil yesterday and little at a time put in maybe half a qt. of oil. I now have oil registering two lines above minimum and the spyder sounds smoother - go figure right !:clap: