The current can of worms

[PrairieSpyder]

If I was an armed police officer with the authority to tell someone to stop - like a 6'4" heavy-set guy - and instead he turned and come toward me and wouldn't stop, I'd shoot, too.

[cuznjohn]

i totally agree with you, but time will tell what really happened, so far they found pot in his system. so we will see

[bmccaffrey]

I don't know all the facts. State troopers were brought in to protect and restore order not join the rally and walk with them and take sides or be there spokesman. He should resign. People looting and nor being arrested not right.
Best thing Governor did bring in the National Guard. No partiality DO YOUR JOB:yes:

[Bob Denman]

:agree: As well... If you let somebody that size get their hands on you... :shocked:
And I don't care if they're blackwhiteyellowbluepurplegreenorangemauvepeachvio letbrowntansandbeigeornoneofthedamnedabove...
...it's about obeying a direct order from a Police Officer... :thumbup:

[Chupaca]

but only hope they will be able to find the truth. Letting it get this far out of hand make it harder...it should have never come to this..jmo...

[ARtraveler]

We are not getting the whole story. I don't think the young man was as innocent as they are saying. He just came from stealing from a store and was probably "cop wary" to start with. It was also said that he and a friend were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic when they were stopped.

Then, to use the incident as an excuse to loot stores, make attacks on the police. etc.

The provacatuers, and the rabble rousers are out in force. Even CNN is trying to stir the pot and suggesting that other demonstrations should be taking place in other cities.

[bruiser]

I wish I could find the video i watched the other night. The guy hit the nail squarely on the head.

[zavalza]

6 shots, 2 to the head. Wonder is such a good shot officer could have shot the knees of his attacker instead of the head to stop him. I think the problem here is they don't have a "license to kill" just because somebody is running towards them and supposedly unarmed.

[SpyderAnn01]

6 shots, 2 to the head. Wonder is such a good shot officer could have shot the knees of his attacker instead of the head to stop him. I think the problem here is they don't have a "license to kill" just because somebody is running towards them and supposedly unarmed.

But police officers are trained to shoot to kill not to shoot them in the knees. I did hear tonight that after he was shot several times he finally put his hands in the air and stopped.

[Gray Ghost]

... such a good shot officer could have shot the knees of his attacker instead of the head to stop him.

I see this kind of comment a lot whenever there is any kind of shooting that makes the news. While movies have taught us that it is easy to make a disabling shot, in real life that is not the case. As a rough estimate my knee cap is about 2 - 3 inches in diameter. Not a bad target on a range where the target is stationary and the shooter has no stress and plenty of time to sight in. However you put in the stress of having already had a physical altercation, the adrenalin is pumping and the individual is charging at you and you are not going to be able to calmly put a round in that target. That is why you are taught to shoot at center of mass, the largest target. Even then, in a stress situation, there will be a tendency to jerk the trigger, etc.

This comment is not about the actual scenario from Ferguson, but just a comment on why people don't target knees, or guns, or whatever.

[granpa in Cincy]

Not to worry, Eric Holder from just us is on his way there Wed.

[PrairieSpyder]

Everyone who says we need to get all the facts is absolutely right. But many aren't waiting for the facts and have bought in to a narrative that Brown was shot "execution style" (spin designed to make the police evil). I'm just saying I'd have done something similar if the subject of that size was coming at me.

I have great respect for police. They deserve the benefit of doubt. They risk their lives to protect me and keep the peace (except in Ferguson lately). They're also better armed than me.


6 shots, 2 to the head. Wonder is such a good shot officer could have shot the knees of his attacker instead of the head to stop him. I think the problem here is they don't have a "license to kill" just because somebody is running towards them and supposedly unarmed.

Actually, they do. If the subject's coming toward the cop, told to stop, keeps coming, the cop has a right to defend himself as necessary.

[cuznjohn]

so there were more riots last night, it is getting worse

[frankc]

I don't know what happened that night and it could have been an officer defending himself or it could have been a jack boot
deciding to show who was boss but the police response, by not releasing the officer's name and by going military against the community was improper and wrong headed.

What it says is that the state can kill and remain anonymous.

That isn't something we should ever let happen.

they should remain anonymous, if not the family would have been in danger. they should go more military agaist these ghetto rats. double tap is the way to go.

[PrairieSpyder]

What the unrest tells me is that there have been factors that have been simmering for a long, long time.

I was a university student for more years than anyone should be.
I also have always kept what most people consider odd hours.

I liked to walk the streets either late at night or early in the morning.
The only time I was ever bothered was by the police.

I was thrown against the wall on more than one occasion for no reason.
I'm not black but I can imagine the abuse of power that probably occurs.

One time the cop broke my slide rule because he said that it was a weapon.

I too have respect for the police but I also know that a certain personality type wants the job.
Don't flame me, I know not all cops are like that.

I've never had that type of experience, but I agree with the personality type. I think it's really easy for the police to cross the line. Thus, the fact they are better armed by me, if nothing else, will make me behave when I encounter law enforcement. Because of the possibility you describe we citizens should always be vigilant that we don't devolve into a "police state". But I don't think abusive cops are the norm.

[frankc]

I see.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion.
When the state comes after you, will you feel the same way?

I don't believe its the state you have to worry about. that's just my opion and I know there just like ----------------- every body has one

[bruiser]

Abusive cops are not the norm. Abusive media is. There is too much instant news today. And way too much instant analysis without the true facts. The media, instead of reporting the news has become the news. Put a camera and lights up and you have your instant wannabes. Last night I saw kids, maybe 8 or 10 years old hanging out of car windows holding their hands up. Do you really think they know what's going on? They should have been home.

The usual suspects are in Ferguson adding fuel to the fire instead of trying to calm the masses. Outsiders with no reason to be there except to loot and incite have shown up.

I'm not a racist. At least I try not to be. But would this have been news had it been the other way around? I remember well the riots in Baltimore after Rev. King was murdered. There was a black family down the street from us. They were scared to death. I remember white men taking turns standing watch in front of their house to protect them.

Here is the video I saw the other night.


http://youtu.be/5f0mVn0HH6U

[cuznjohn]

like i said in a earlier post, we need to wait for the results of the investigation b4 people point fingers. we hear so many sides that it is hard to see just what happened. as far as the riots go, people are there from NY just to start trouble. i saw a video from a bystander that was saying the kid turned and just kept going toward the cop. so i really think all police should have cameras in the cars and or on their person.

[Cruzr Joe]

Like the rest of you, I don't know the whole story, but i do know this.

1 - The officer of 6 years has a good unmarred record.

2 - The Deceased (although a minor) was a BIG thug.

3 - If you are walking away from a crime (Strongarm Robbery) down the middle of the street, you are looking for a confrontation.

4 - A Police Officer is responsible to make sure that he gets to go home to his family at the end of his shift.

5 - If the situation ever gets so bad that you have to shoot someone, don't stop until the threat is stopped.

6 - The Police allowing rioters to destroy property, beat up people and steal other peoples goods, without doing anything about it, That's wrong.

7 - Peaceful demonstrations are an expression of the people and should not be restricted.

Just my two cents worth

Cruzr Joe

[Bob Denman]

:agree: Peaceful demonstrations are the right of ALL of us... :2thumbs:
When distruction of public and private property starts; things have gone too far! :shocked:

And I double-agree with you ; Joe...
You stop shooting ONLY after the threat has been stopped! :thumbup:

[zavalza]

So media is evil... But media released the information saying the police account of the facts as well as the phone call from his friend (whoever that was).

Media definitely plays a role on issues, no doubt, but this is not about the media. Yesterday in live footage the cops were pointing guns at people that were not destroying anything and move to arrest people even when they were not doing anything except yell at a safe distance. As everybody else I want to wait for facts about Brown's case, but the response from the police to the protests has been incredibly dumb, both ways. First no reaction, then overreaction.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

[frankc]

Like the rest of you, I don't know the whole story, but i do know this.

1 - The officer of 6 years has a good unmarred record.

2 - The Deceased (although a minor) was a BIG thug.

3 - If you are walking away from a crime (Strongarm Robbery) down the middle of the street, you are looking for a confrontation.

4 - A Police Officer is responsible to make sure that he gets to go home to his family at the end of his shift.

5 - If the situation ever gets so bad that you have to shoot someone, don't stop until the threat is stopped.

6 - The Police allowing rioters to destroy property, beat up people and steal other peoples goods, without doing anything about it, That's wrong.

7 - Peaceful demonstrations are an expression of the people and should not be restricted.

Just my two cents worth

Cruzr Joe

:agree:

[ataDude]

...officer could have shot the knees of his attacker instead of the head to stop him....

Haven't been there, have you? You don't shoot to kill... or wound... you shoot at center mass to stop the threat. The fact that there were two head shots just means... to me... that the officer missed center mass. :lecturef_smilie:

[Bob Denman]

Amen! :thumbup: Center of mass. It's the size of a soccer ball; much easier to hit in a stressful situation! :shocked:
And I sincerely hope that you never have to find this out! :2thumbs:

[Cruzr Joe]

Amen! :thumbup: Center of mass. It's the size of a soccer ball; much easier to hit in a stressful situation! :shocked:
And I sincerely hope that you never have to find this out! :2thumbs:


:agree:, and this young Officer is having to second guess everything he did that night.

Cruzr Joe

[cuznjohn]

things can move when something like this happens, problem i think it is all for show

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-19/ferguson-police-shooting-grand-jury-probe-starts-tomorrow.html

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

since when does anyone have a right to riot & loot during a protest?
To start with i would like to know how many times previously this innocent little child has been arrested
for robbery, i'm sure that was not his first time but i am sure it is his last.
When an officer tells you to do something you do it, why do some decide to disobey a lawful order &
get upset when it escalates badly for them?

I learned a while ago, don't argue with a cop, do that with a judge, just record anything that happens
with the officer so you have the proof you need.

[Oldmanzues]

things can move when something like this happens, problem i think it is all for show

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-19/ferguson-police-shooting-grand-jury-probe-starts-tomorrow.html If it has bloomberrg in the name , it is basied. He want take your right to defend yourself, while he travels with a armered gurd with full auto and ilegal weaons.
Peaceful protest is fine, riot and you lose all right. Waving a upside American migh iduce me to shoot. End of rant, if I am allowed to stay opn here.
oldmanzues

[Bob Denman]

Listen; if you'd take Bloomberg off of our hands, and move him to Ohio; I'm pretty sure that we can work out a trade for something! :D :2thumbs:

[bluestratos]

The ire at the death of the young man is just an excuse to vent at the system. If I had to patrol (and I never would) in that crap hole of a place I would have a hair trigger as well. I did some research and I am sorry to say it is a lost cause. Residents say they hear gun fire 3-4 times a week! It takes a special person to put on a uniform and go to work in that environment.

Since the minority is the majority they should elect a African American Mayor & police force (is African American still politically correct, I can keep up with it). If you don't like the system, fix the system.

[cuznjohn]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

[stillriding]

Listen; if you'd thake Bloomberg off of our hands, and move him to Ohio; I'm pretty sure that we can work out a trade for something! :D :2thumbs:Keep Bloomberg out of Ohio!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bmccaffrey]

It's a know win situation. If he's not charged riots will probably brek out through out the country. If he's charged which he probably will be even if he's innocent they are pacifying looking for a scapegoat.
I don't consider my self a racist have had plenty of black friends. This may get me kicked off the site but I don't care. I don't owe the black people or afro american what ever they want to call themselves anything. Im not responsible for what my ancestors or anyone elses did years ago maybe we should include the Indians. They perhaps have the biggest gripe. This has gotten carried away also CHANGE THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS.REALLY!!! These people need to be held accountable for their actions no matter Race.
Always looking for excuses RACE IS NOT AN EXCUSE.

CLOSED NO REBUTTAL. SORRY IS WHAT IT IS!!!!!!

[Bob Denman]

I've heard a lot of very responsible voices for the community saying pretty much the same thing...

It's a shame that it happened; the young man truly was the author of his own misfortune... :shocked:

[Mexican]

I've heard a lot of very responsible voices for the community saying pretty much the same thing...

It's a shame that it happened; the young man truly was the author of his own misfortune... :shocked:
One thing is for sure, he did not get shot coming out of church, feel bad for his family but his actions were going to kill him sooner or later, either by police or robbing the wrong guy

[Bob Denman]

Keep Bloomberg out of Ohio!!!!!!!!!!!!
How about if you take Bloomberg, and give me $6,800...
I'll make sure that you get an Elio; once they start production! :shocked:

[stillriding]

How about if you take Bloomberg, and give me $6,800...
I'll make sure that you get an Elio; once they start production! :shocked:
No Bloomberg. Not even if you gave me the 68-hundred. Bloomberg probably thinks an Elio is a new handgun and will have his minions work to get it banned.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

what is all this crap about bloomberg? yes he is a billionaire & we are not, yes helped keep the crime rate down, yes he is trying to make people healthier & maybe be less of a drain on our healthcare system and yes he took only $1 as yearly salary for his very full time job & used public transportation. Besides all that really didn't do much of anything good for the city

[Bob Denman]

As much as I don't like the guy for his views on personal freedoms; he actually was a very effective Mayor... :clap:

[Cruzr Joe]

OK Hijackers, Back to Ferguson.

Cruzr Joe

[Oldmanzues]

How about if you take Bloomberg, and give me $6,800...
I'll make sure that you get an Elio; once they start production! :shocked:

I have to stop right here and answer this one. the only place I would take bloomberg is half way across the alantic in C-130, Then kick him off the back ramp with a lead jacket on.
Oldmanzues

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

ferguson would end up being a career criminal & bloomberg spent a lot of time keeping guys like him off the street & afraid of the police as it should be.
if you can't jail them then kill them, i don't want to worry when i walk the street at night and i don't want my store to get broken into during a riot.

[bruiser]

I'll post this then I'm out.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/19/video-communist-revolutionaries-travel-from-chicago-nyc-to-incite-riots-in-ferguson/

[Cruzr Joe]

ferguson would end up being a career criminal & bloomberg spent a lot of time keeping guys like him off the street & afraid of the police as it should be.
if you can't jail them then kill them, i don't want to worry when i walk the street at night and i don't want my store to get broken into during a riot.



Ferguson is the name of the city.

Cruzr Joe

[PrairieSpyder]

I'll post this then I'm out.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/19/video-communist-revolutionaries-travel-from-chicago-nyc-to-incite-riots-in-ferguson/


The worms have come out!

[ARtraveler]

Thank you for posting this additional information Bruiser. The fact that communistic agitators from other cities are there to rile up the crowds says a lot.

Didn't Hitler also use that tactic when he was trying to gain power in the late 1930's?

[Bob Denman]

Yup! :thumbup:
He'd station them in the back of the room for the meetings, where they could yell out inflammatory comments and accusations... :gaah: