1330 OIL REPORT

[PW2013STL]

Thinking 9300 miles between oil change is a bit to long I changed it at 6000 miles (9000 on the Spyder) and sent a sample to Blackstone Labs to be tested. Received the report yesterday. Everything came back positive and with a recommendation to wait until 8000 for the next change.
Looks like BRP got this one correct:yes:

I changed over to Mobil 1 10-40 and will wait the 9300 miles and have it tested again:thumbup:

[Highwayman2013]

Would be nice to see if the BRP oil would go the distance. This is very interesting and thanks for posting your results.

[sddinnh]

Like you, I thought 9000 was a bit optimistic so I've been changing mine at 4000 intervals. I've just been using BRP oil.

[PW2013STL]

Mobil 1 10-40, to clarify, this was the motorcycle specific oil or you used one of their automobile oils with an energy conserving rating.

It sounds as if you ran the oem oil until 3000 miles for break in, then at 3000 miles went to Mobil 1, hopefully moto oil, and the sample was done on the Mobil 1

PK

To clarify - I ran BRP oil and had that tested at 6000 miles (9000 on the Spyder). The first service was done by the dealer then at 9000 miles I changed the oil switching over to Mobil 1 motorcycle oil as I have been using Mobil synthatic oil in all my motorcycles for many years with great results.

[ulflyer]

Thinking 9300 miles between oil change is a bit to long I changed it at 6000 miles (9000 on the Spyder) and sent a sample to Blackstone Labs to be tested. Received the report yesterday. Everything came back positive and with a recommendation to wait until 8000 for the next change.
Looks like BRP got this one correct:yes:

I changed over to Mobil 1 10-40 and will wait the 9300 miles and have it tested again:thumbup:

That a great report. Could you copy and paste the report here for us to see the numbers? I'd especially like the numbers after cST100c.

[PW2013STL]

That a great report. Could you copy and paste the report here for us to see the numbers? I'd especially like the numbers after cST100c.

I have been trying, but so far no luck. The number for that is 8.36 and the range is listed at 6.0-9.7

[Jim&Teresa]

I have been trying, but so far no luck. The number for that is 8.36 and the range is listed at 6.0-9.7

Hi Les,

Is this the Mobil 1 you use? Mobil 1 10W-40 Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil, 1 qt. (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-10W-40-Full-Synthetic-Motorcycle-Oil-1qt/16767829) It says "Racing 4T" on the front in the red portion of the bottle.
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/07/19/24/44/0007192444924_180X180.jpg

[Jim&Teresa]

To clarify - I ran BRP oil and had that tested at 6000 miles (9000 on the Spyder). The first service was done by the dealer then at 9000 miles I changed the oil switching over to Mobil 1 motorcycle oil as I have been using Mobil synthatic oil in all my motorcycles for many years with great results.

Was the BRP oil the full synthetic or was it the blend when the dealer done the first service at 3000 miles? :dontknow: I believe my dealer used the blend when doing my first service! :yikes: I've got one more oil change with BRP Oil (blend) before switching due to purchasing it ahead of time.....based on your report, looks like Mobil 1 10W-40 motorcycle full synthetic is the way to go!

[PW2013STL]

Hi Les,

Is this the Mobil 1 you use? Mobil 1 10W-40 Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil, 1 qt. (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-10W-40-Full-Synthetic-Motorcycle-Oil-1qt/16767829) It says "Racing 4T" on the front in the red portion of the bottle.
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/07/19/24/44/0007192444924_180X180.jpg

Jim,

That is the one. AutoZone $8.99 per qt.

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for this report! :thumbup:
Question: Would you suggest using BRP's full synthetic, as opposed to their blend? :dontknow:
(I'm getting REAL close to the 3,000 mile tap-dance... I'd like to be sure of what to ask for! :D)

[PW2013STL]

Was the BRP oil the full synthetic or was it the blend when the dealer done the first service at 3000 miles? :dontknow: I believe my dealer used the blend when doing my first service! :yikes: I've got one more oil change with BRP Oil (blend) before switching due to purchasing it ahead of time.....based on your report, looks like Mobil 1 10w-40 motorcycle full synthetic is the way to go!

It was the blend for me also.

[PW2013STL]

Thanks for this report! :thumbup:
Question: Would you suggest using BRP's full synthetic, as opposed to their blend? :dontknow:
(I'm getting REAL close to the 3,000 mile tap-dance... I'd like to be sure of what to ask for! :D)

I considered using BRP's full synthetic, but I know Mobil 1 and it was less $. Their blend (BRP) is doing well so you can use it without worries, but I like the extra protection of full synthetic :2thumbs:

[Bob Denman]

Thanks! :D
The 9,000 plus miles between changes, has had me a bit concerned about using a non-synthetic oil... :shocked:

[PW2013STL]

Thanks! :D
The 9,000 plus miles between changes, has had me a bit concerned about using a non-synthetic oil... :shocked:

If it makes you feel any better Blackstone's report thinks it is good for 8,000 miles.

[murphybrown]

Thanks for this report! :thumbup:
Question: Would you suggest using BRP's full synthetic, as opposed to their blend? :dontknow:
(I'm getting REAL close to the 3,000 mile tap-dance... I'd like to be sure of what to ask for! :D)

I will be due for my 12k soon. When I scheduled appt with (this is a new dealer for me) dealership I asked about going BRP full synthetic and he said the same thing that Pitbull said. 'BRP is recommending the BRP blend for the 1330'. Now I know the profit dance about using BRP products . I used full synthetic (AMSOIL) in the 998. Because of the amount that I travel and need to have service sometimes on the road + having to carry AMSOIL I decided to stick with BRP oil for the 1330. Deciding to trust my dealers' knowledge and BRP's recommendation I am staying with BRP Blend as well as following their maintenance schedule...just my decision...I am sooooooo not "smart" in oil...other than olive oil for my culinary excursions!!! :thumbup::yes:

[Bob Denman]

You guys are making me feel a lot better about my ignorance! :D
Thanks! :thumbup:

Olive oil?
From the extra-ugly olives?? :roflblack:

[PW2013STL]

I will be due for my 12k soon. When I scheduled appt with (this is a new dealer for me) dealership I asked about going BRP full synthetic and he said the same thing that Pitbull said. 'BRP is recommending the BRP blend for the 1330'. Now I know the profit dance about using BRP products . I used full synthetic (AMSOIL) in the 998. Because of the amount that I travel and need to have service sometimes on the road + having to carry AMSOIL I decided to stick with BRP oil for the 1330. Deciding to trust my dealers' knowledge and BRP's recommendation I am staying with BRP Blend as well as following their maintenance schedule...just my decision...I am sooooooo not "smart" in oil...other than olive oil for my culinary excursions!!! :thumbup::yes:

From the report you should be fine as it looks like a quality oil :2thumbs:

[CentralCoastCA]

From the report you should be fine as it looks like a quality oil :2thumbs:

I used Amsoil in my GS with great results before selling it and still have case left over. Glad to hear it's still good for the '14 :D

[opiewhan]

Thanks! :D
The 9,000 plus miles between changes, has had me a bit concerned about using a non-synthetic oil... :shocked:

Ive had mechanics say that break-in on a NEW engine should be done with regular motor oil, it helps seat the rings and valves better. Then do the switch over to synthetic oil..I have used Mobil I in all my vehicles and would recommend it..So does Tony Stewart..LOL:thumbup::thumbup:

[PW2013STL]

Ive had mechanics say that break-in on a NEW engine should be done with regular motor oil, it helps seat the rings and valves better. Then do the switch over to synthetic oil..I have used Mobil I in all my vehicles and would recommend it..So does Tony Stewart..LOL:thumbup::thumbup:

:agree: and that is why I waited until I had 9000 miles on it before changing to full synthetc.

[bgame]

SYNTHETIC OIL MYTHS

Myth: Once you switch to synthetic oil you can never switch back. This is one of the most persistent myths about synthetic oil—and completely untrue. You can switch back and forth at any time. In fact, synthetic blends are simply a mixture of synthetic and conventional oils. It is advisable that you use the same oil for top-ups if needed, thereby giving you the best protection from the oil that you have chosen.
Myth: You shouldn’t use synthetic oil in an older vehicle. The myth is rooted in the idea that synthetic oil is “slipperier,” lower in viscosity, or not as compatible with seals and will therefore leak or leak more in places conventional oil might not. Again, completely untrue. Synthetic oils will enhance the engine protection in older vehicles just as they do for new engines.
Myth: You should break in your engine with conventional oil before you start using synthetic oil. Again, there’s no manufacturer we’re aware of that makes this recommendation. Mercedes, Porsche, Corvette, some Cadillacs, Volkswagen, Hyundai and many other manufacturers’ cars come from the factory with synthetic oil.
Myth: Using a synthetic oil voids a car’s warranty. Untrue. The only engines that specifically exclude the use of a synthetic motor oil are some Mazda rotary engines.
Myth: Synthetics made from Group III base oils are not true synthetics and are not as good as PAO-based synthetics in Group IV. Again, untrue. Synthetics made from Group III oil can, in some cases, outperform those made in Group IV oils in some areas of performance.

[Bob Denman]

Now... You're from Texas; right? :D
If they catch you trying to push the use of synthetics, can't they just shoot you? :shocked: :joke::joke::joke::joke:

[sddinnh]

Now... You're from Texas; right? :D
If they catch you trying to push the use of synthetics, can't they just shoot you? :shocked: :joke::joke::joke::joke:

Yup, that's what I hear :chat:

[Highwayman2013]

So we can conclude that BRP blend is just fine.

[MarkLawson]

Early SpyderLover posts suggested Mobil 1 (motorcycle) cause permanent clutch damage on the Spyder. I don't know if that is still the case, but wanted to throw this out there.

[PW2013STL]

Early SpyderLover posts suggested Mobil 1 (motorcycle) cause permanent clutch damage on the Spyder. I don't know if that is still the case, but wanted to throw this out there.

Most likely they were using the auto formula. I have never had an issue with the motorcycle formula and clutches.

[MarkLawson]

See post #3 on this old thread: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?25988-Mobil-1-Racing-4T-10W-40-UPDATE&highlight=Mobil

[Bob Denman]

If Scotty said it; I'd believe it! :thumbup:

[PW2013STL]

See post #3 on this old thread: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?25988-Mobil-1-Racing-4T-10W-40-UPDATE&highlight=Mobil

Interesting read.

Looking at my owners manual is states "SL, SJ, SH, SG, or higher" Nothing about "API SM rating, which is expressly prohibited by BRP"

Mobil's web site states "According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is of the following quality level:
API SH
API CF"

[mindman]

Great report. Thanks for posting it. I was concerned too.

[Chupaca]

glad there are those testing things out. Brp must have run some tests upping the 998 oil change 1,600 miles to every 4,600 miles. But good to know the 1330 spec's are close according to your report...:thumbup:

[ARtraveler]

Thinking 9300 miles between oil change is a bit to long I changed it at 6000 miles (9000 on the Spyder) and sent a sample to Blackstone Labs to be tested. Received the report yesterday. Everything came back positive and with a recommendation to wait until 8000 for the next change.
Looks like BRP got this one correct:yes:

I changed over to Mobil 1 10-40 and will wait the 9300 miles and have it tested again:thumbup:

Please post this in the break in thread which started yesterday. We specifically had a question as to whether or not we wait 9300 miles after the break in service or just do the oil change at 9300 miles and go from there. I like to err on the side of conservatism, so suggested I would be doing my next oil change at 9300 instead of 12,300. Now, it looks like I will just go with my annual start up oil change service at the beginning of every riding season, unless I exceed the 9300 mile limits.

Thanks for posting your results.

[billybovine]

Interesting read.

Looking at my owners manual is states "SL, SJ, SH, SG, or higher" Nothing about "API SM rating, which is expressly prohibited by BRP"

Mobil's web site states "According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is of the following quality level:
API SH
API CF"

There appears to be a mix up of requirements for different engines. All owners manuals for all Spyder models and all years for the 998 engine have a warning not to use any engine oil with an API rating of SM. Serious clutch damage will result. The owners manual for the 1330 engine has no such restriction. Since this discussion is for the 1330, SM rating is mute.

[ulflyer]

For those who want to use Mobil1 4T, Advance Auto has it on sale for $8.98. It may be ended by now...not sure.

I've always been concerned that its just MA, not MA2, but obviously a number of riders are using it with no clutch issues.

[ulflyer]

I have been trying, but so far no luck. The number for that is 8.36 and the range is listed at 6.0-9.7

I'm really puzzled; at 8.36 the viscosity has dropped down into the 20W zone, according to: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

To further confuse me, a major lab I've been using, ALS, reports numbers in the 11.6 and below as "caution" and once I got a 10.1 and they flagged it "danger".

The question I've never been able to get answered is how low can the viscosity shear down to and still be viable?

Obviously, the two labs have different views, and BRP says 9300 miles is good. Have to admit, Blackstone's report makes one feel comfortable with whatever oil one is using.

Maybe I'll sent my next test to both labs and see what the results are. :D

[Purple Guy]

To throw my hat into the discussion...
I too am a big beleiver in full synthetic oil and use it in all my vehicles.
I just had my 2014 RT-L in for it's first service and had them use BRP's full synthetic when they did the oil change.
Now I've only put about 200 miles on it since but it seems to me that it doesn't shift as smooth as it did with the blended oil. (a little more clunky)
I'm off on a nice 10 day road trip, dipping into the US for a few days (that's right, the Canadians are coming) so I'll get a better feel for it.
Just wonder if maybe it's to slippery for the tranny??? :dontknow:
Has anyone else gone to full synthetic in the 1330???

[ulflyer]

To throw my hat into the discussion...
I too am a big beleiver in full synthetic oil and use it in all my vehicles.
I just had my 2014 RT-L in for it's first service and had them use BRP's full synthetic when they did the oil change.
Now I've only put about 200 miles on it since but it seems to me that it doesn't shift as smooth as it did with the blended oil. (a little more clunky)
I'm off on a nice 10 day road trip, dipping into the US for a few days (that's right, the Canadians are coming) so I'll get a better feel for it.
Just wonder if maybe it's to slippery for the tranny??? :dontknow:
Has anyone else gone to full synthetic in the 1330???

I used Amsoil for one 4000 mile run but could tell no difference in shifting from the previous fill of Castrol Blend. Now running Rotella T (dino) with 2000 mi on it and can't tell any diff.
On BITOG forum, a lot of bike owners say they can definitely tell a difference with certain oils sometimes its dino only and sometimes synthetic, so I suppose it might make a difference.
On my previous 998 I thought it shifted smoother when I used Castrol Blend (which some say is what BRP Blend is).

[jerpinoy]

Now the my confusion is so clear to me thanks guys.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

:shocked:......This oil has been OK'd by PEOPLE WHO KNOW OIL( here ) .......and is the least expensive FULL SYN that I have found ....Rotella T-6 5w 40 sells at Walmart for approx. $22 per Gallon..................This oil meets or exceeds all BRP warranty requirements ...............Mikeguyver :thumbup:

[Tango]

:shocked:......This oil has been OK'd by PEOPLE WHO KNOW OIL( here ) .......and is the least expensive FULL SYN that I have found ....Rotella T-6 5w 40 sells at Walmart for approx. $22 per Gallon..................This oil meets or exceeds all BRP warranty requirements ...............Mikeguyver :thumbup:

Mike is the Rotella "JASO MA or MA2"? Tom :trike:

[Tango]

I just had my 14 RT serviced. I asked for full synthetic. They called and said they had none in stock. I asked for Amsoil 10-40. The reply was, BRP specifies 5-40. They do not stock the BRP full synthetic. So I ok'd the BRP semi-syn.. I have to think about what to use next time. They will NOT use anything but 5-40. Only known oil I know of is Bel Ray, and Shell Rotella. BTW my first 3,000 mile service was $231 with tax. :thumbup: Tom :trike:

[Huddleston]

Mike is the Rotella "JASO MA or MA2"? Tom :trike:

For whatever it is worth, Wikipedia says:

JASO-MA[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shell_Rotella_T&action=edit&section=4)]JASO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Automotive_Standards_Organization) is an acronym that stands for "The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization." Among other things, they set standards for oil to be used in motorcycles.
Shell Rotella T 15W-40 conventional oil does list on its packaging JASO MA as one of the specifications it meets. Note that the 10W-30 conventional oil does not list JASO-MA.
The newer fully synthetic T6 5W-40 oil lists JASO-MA compliance on its packaging and on the Rotella website.

I could not find this info on the Rotella website.

[Grandpa Pete]

You Minnesota guy's are pretty darn smart:clap::clap: you betcha!!!!!:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:


Grandpa Pete:p

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I just had my 14 RT serviced. I asked for full synthetic. They called and said they had none in stock. I asked for Amsoil 10-40. The reply was, BRP specifies 5-40. They do not stock the BRP full synthetic. So I ok'd the BRP semi-syn.. I have to think about what to use next time. They will NOT use anything but 5-40. Only known oil I know of is Bel Ray, and Shell Rotella. BTW my first 3,000 mile service was $231 with tax. :thumbup: Tom :trike:
:gaah::gaah::gaah:........Tom, other than having to take off the rightside mirror , a couple of panels below that , and having a 36 mm socket to get the oil cover off ..........If you use the Rotella T-6 + a filter you will only spend $55 and will still have 2 1/2 qts. left over for the next oil change .............$ 180 buys quite a bit of gas ....Good Luck .....Mike :thumbup::thumbup:

[ulflyer]

I just had my 14 RT serviced. I asked for full synthetic. They called and said they had none in stock. I asked for Amsoil 10-40. The reply was, BRP specifies 5-40. They do not stock the BRP full synthetic. So I ok'd the BRP semi-syn.. I have to think about what to use next time. They will NOT use anything but 5-40. Only known oil I know of is Bel Ray, and Shell Rotella. BTW my first 3,000 mile service was $231 with tax. :thumbup: Tom :trike:

If they used BRP semi-syn, its a 10-40. Walmart stocks Mobil1, Valvoline, and Castrol motorcycle oil. Heres another site if you want a wider selection of oils:

http://www.powersportsuperstore.com/Engine-Oil-s/283.htm

[Roadster Renovations]

Probably going to switch to Mobile 1 for my RTS next change, too. Glad you ran the analysis on it! Good info. Where is everyone buying their oil filter kits for the 1330? Is the dealer the only place?

[billybovine]

If they used BRP semi-syn, its a 10-40.

I am sorry you are incorrect BRP Blended is 5W-40 it has not been 10W-40 since the new formula was phased in in 2008-9. You're 5 yrs behind.

[ulflyer]

I am sorry you are incorrect BRP Blended is 5W-40 it has not been 10W-40 since the new formula was phased in in 2008-9. You're 5 yrs behind.


Good to know. Thanks Billy. :D

[Tango]

Went to Wally World today. Checked out the Rotella T6. $25.50 for a gallon. Good price. :thumbup: Tom :trike:

[Roadster Renovations]

http://www.amazon.com/Can-Am-Sypder-Roadster-Service-219800262/dp/B00LG1YVMU/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407213250&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=oil+filter+kit+2014+Can+Am+Spyder

Found this on Amazon.

[PW2013STL]

http://www.amazon.com/Can-Am-Sypder-Roadster-Service-219800262/dp/B00LG1YVMU/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407213250&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=oil+filter+kit+2014+Can+Am+Spyder

Found this on Amazon.

Not for the 1330 motors as this is listed for the 5 speed.

[Roadster Renovations]

Thanks! Good thing I didn't buy that one! Where does everyone get theirs for the 1330?

[Highwayman2013]

I think Bajaron is working on a kit for the 1330.

[PW2013STL]

Thanks! Good thing I didn't buy that one! Where does everyone get theirs for the 1330?

I just purchased the filter, 5 o-rings, and two washers from a dealer and the oil from Autozone. If you are staying with BRP oil than eveything from your dealer.

[PW2013STL]

I'm really puzzled; at 8.36 the viscosity has dropped down into the 20W zone, according to: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

To further confuse me, a major lab I've been using, ALS, reports numbers in the 11.6 and below as "caution" and once I got a 10.1 and they flagged it "danger".

The question I've never been able to get answered is how low can the viscosity shear down to and still be viable?

Obviously, the two labs have different views, and BRP says 9300 miles is good. Have to admit, Blackstone's report makes one feel comfortable with whatever oil one is using.

Maybe I'll sent my next test to both labs and see what the results are. :D

After reading this I finally got around to asking them about it and here is their response.

"Hi, Les. Thanks for the email.

If this is supposed to be a 5W/40 oil, then that does change our report slightly, because the viscosity reading is quite low for a 5W/40. The viscosity wasn't listed on your oil slip, just the brand name, so when the sample read in the 5W/20 range, that's what we logged it in as.

This reading would be low for 5W/40 (the MSDS lists the approximate viscosity for this type of oil at ~14.5 cSt, and your reading was just 8.36 cSt), although since that's the only thing reading out of line, we don't see any obvious cause for the viscosity to read so low. The flashpoint was fine, so fuel dilution doesn't seem to be a concern, and no mechanical problems were found. Some types of oil just tend to naturally shear the oil down, so that might be what's going on here, and that's not a problem as long as wear isn't affected.

All in all, it's still a nice report, just with a slightly lower viscosity than we would have expected. No other problems found. Hope that helps. Let me know if there's anything else we can do for you. Thanks!"

Travis Heffelfinger
Blackstone Laboratories
416 E. Pettit Ave.
Fort Wayne, IN 46806

If you do send in yours for testing please let us know what you find. I will now do my next change at 6000 and see how Moble 1 preforms.

[ulflyer]

After reading this I finally got around to asking them about it and here is their response.

"Hi, Les. Thanks for the email.

If this is supposed to be a 5W/40 oil, then that does change our report slightly, because the viscosity reading is quite low for a 5W/40. The viscosity wasn't listed on your oil slip, just the brand name, so when the sample read in the 5W/20 range, that's what we logged it in as.

This reading would be low for 5W/40 (the MSDS lists the approximate viscosity for this type of oil at ~14.5 cSt, and your reading was just 8.36 cSt), although since that's the only thing reading out of line, we don't see any obvious cause for the viscosity to read so low. The flashpoint was fine, so fuel dilution doesn't seem to be a concern, and no mechanical problems were found. Some types of oil just tend to naturally shear the oil down, so that might be what's going on here, and that's not a problem as long as wear isn't affected.

All in all, it's still a nice report, just with a slightly lower viscosity than we would have expected. No other problems found. Hope that helps. Let me know if there's anything else we can do for you. Thanks!"

Travis Heffelfinger
Blackstone Laboratories
416 E. Pettit Ave.
Fort Wayne, IN 46806

If you do send in yours for testing please let us know what you find. I will now do my next change at 6000 and see how Moble 1 preforms.

Thanks for sharing the above report from Blackstone Lab. Glad to know I am not out in left field as far as oil shearing goes. While the Lab says, in effect, that as long as wear is not affected, running an oil that has sheared down that much is ok. The question is, how will you know there has been undue wear, until its already happened? For that reason, I'm likely to continue changing oil at no more than 4000 miles.

I like to dabble with oils and will continue to do lab tests whenever I use a diff oil. Right now I'm still running the
Rotella T Dino with about 2000 mi on it and when it reaches
3000 mi I'll send a sample in. Will let you know the results when I get them and would love to see a test on Mobil1.

[Roadster Renovations]

Thanks for sharing the above report from Blackstone Lab. Glad to know I am not out in left field as far as oil shearing goes. While the Lab says, in effect, that as long as wear is not affected, running an oil that has sheared down that much is ok. The question is, how will you know there has been undue wear, until its already happened? For that reason, I'm likely to continue changing oil at no more than 4000 miles.

I like to dabble with oils and will continue to do lab tests whenever I use a diff oil. Right now I'm still running the
Rotella T Dino with about 2000 mi on it and when it reaches
3000 mi I'll send a sample in. Will let you know the results when I get them and would love to see a test on Mobil1.
I am interested to see how the Rotella stacks up to the OEM or Mobil1 for that matter.

[ulflyer]

Be very careful what you read Doc, he is running regular oil. The comparison you want to see is one that compares Rotella T6 5-40 full Synthetic vs Mobil Motorcycle oil in 10-40 wright. Any other comparison of similar named oils is a waste. There are many different Rotella oils and Mobil 1 oils.

FWIW, the T-6 meets every requirement stipulated by BRP. It is a rated motorcycle oil, it does have proper viscosity, it is full synthetic.
The Mobil 1 motorcycle oil meets the requirements except the rating is 10-40.

The real lesson that should be learned is that if oil quality is a concern, change it often. Typically, a 5-40 will always rate thinner than a 10-40 during tests of used oil. It starts out with less viscosity, so should end with less viscosity.

PK

I would also like to see a Lab report on the above two oils, especially the T6. Not only is it readily available, but also inexpensive. I've never tried it in a Spyder because some riders of big bore bikes on BITOG found it sheared much more rapidly than 10-40 oils, but it might well be an ideal oil for the 1330; a lab report would go a long ways to determine that.

Many of BITOG riders have, for a long time, been singing the praise for the "T" Dino version, along with 3-4K mile changes which led me to give it a try. I'll soon know how it turns out.

For longer term use, it would be great if we could use 20-50 as it holds up much better than a 10-40. Unfortunately, its not specified by BRP.

For those who use Rotella T6, Shell is offering a $5 rebate up to two gal between now and Oct 31.
http://www.shell.com/rotella/promotions1/fall-synthetics-promotion.html

[Tango]

I know that I read about it in the past concerning "synthetic" oils. They go by types. Amsoil, Royal Purple, Mobil 1, and others are a "true synthetic". Hence, man made oil. The Shell T6 may be in a lesser catergory. Which is a "highly refined" dino oil that they can claim is synthetic. Basically, the higher the "TBN", total base number is. The higher the quality of the oil. Most of the best oils are 13 TBN to start. Again, do you own reserch on this. I used to be an Amsoil Dealer and kept up on this stuff. :thumbup: Tom :trike:

[Tango]

It didn't take long to find this. Still looking for what "type" it is. Class III or IV?


The typical TBN value for Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic Oil (http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=synthetic+oil) SAE
5W-40 is 10.6.

Thank you for your interest in Shell Lubricants!

Regards,
Edward A. Calcote
Staff Chemist
Shell Lubricants (http://stat.dealtime.com/DealFrame/DealFrame.cmp?bm=106&BEFID=96477&acode=106&code=106&aon=&crawler_id=509125&dealId=JoTp6bZLppSuWVYrJ7NVYw%3D%3D&searchID=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fzorotools.rdr.channelintelligence .com%2Fgo.asp%3FfVhzOC8fBggESSMVXlFYRRdmFT92Z1EABE wAbmJbUxdDXSJXNzAjFx0fR0AofBUMGRwPPVBJEE1sA2IfAQYG AG5tHBEIEE46QX4nOkRtAQMObGRWVVtVQi5RICs3SA8MUlw2MQ QKD1wfeAICSlAuGyBCR0JTUGIxBwIFHUQyeyoqJ0heXFlROjwM Bk0GVTNgLiE3REddDUU6NAoRGRJNeEpQUnsgJT5dU1lXVmIhBw wbA0gwQw%3D%3D%26nAID%3D13736960%26sdc_id%3D%7Bsdc _id%7D&DealName=Renewable%20Lubricants%2080401%20Diesel%2 0Fuel%20Conditioner%2C32%20Oz.&MerchantID=509125&HasLink=yes&category=0&AR=-1&NG=1&GR=1&ND=1&PN=1&RR=-1&ST=&MN=msnFeed&FPT=SDCF&NDS=1&NMS=1&NDP=1&MRS=&PD=0&brnId=2455&lnkId=8070676&Issdt=140805051220&IsFtr=0&IsSmart=0&dlprc=18.48&SKU=G1236681) US Technical Information Center

[Tango]

so is it ok to run the motorcycle 10x40 amsoil.

My dealer refused to use the Amsoil 10-40. :( :banghead: "It's not what BRP calls for". :lecturef_smilie: Tom :trike:

[Roadster Renovations]

Thanks for the headsup! I should be good for the rest of the season this year, so hopefully we will have more information on what the best oil will be to use by then. With this being a new first year engine, what you guys are doing makes perfect sense. I'm sure BRP tested this engine, but the real testing begins when it gets to us. I hate that sometimes, but with costs the way they are it would be impossible to do really extensive testing or extremely cost prohibitive.

[ulflyer]

My dealer refused to use the Amsoil 10-40. :( :banghead: "It's not what BRP calls for". :lecturef_smilie: Tom :trike:

The dealer I bought my '11 from said the same. He's no longer my dealer, and didn't get my service business or when I traded it for the '14! Works both ways. :D

[ulflyer]

It didn't take long to find this. Still looking for what "type" it is. Class III or IV?


The typical TBN value for Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic Oil (http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=synthetic+oil) SAE
5W-40 is 10.6.

Thank you for your interest in Shell Lubricants!

Regards,
Edward A. Calcote
Staff Chemist
Shell Lubricants (http://stat.dealtime.com/DealFrame/DealFrame.cmp?bm=106&BEFID=96477&acode=106&code=106&aon=&crawler_id=509125&dealId=JoTp6bZLppSuWVYrJ7NVYw%3D%3D&searchID=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fzorotools.rdr.channelintelligence .com%2Fgo.asp%3FfVhzOC8fBggESSMVXlFYRRdmFT92Z1EABE wAbmJbUxdDXSJXNzAjFx0fR0AofBUMGRwPPVBJEE1sA2IfAQYG AG5tHBEIEE46QX4nOkRtAQMObGRWVVtVQi5RICs3SA8MUlw2MQ QKD1wfeAICSlAuGyBCR0JTUGIxBwIFHUQyeyoqJ0heXFlROjwM Bk0GVTNgLiE3REddDUU6NAoRGRJNeEpQUnsgJT5dU1lXVmIhBw wbA0gwQw%3D%3D%26nAID%3D13736960%26sdc_id%3D%7Bsdc _id%7D&DealName=Renewable%20Lubricants%2080401%20Diesel%2 0Fuel%20Conditioner%2C32%20Oz.&MerchantID=509125&HasLink=yes&category=0&AR=-1&NG=1&GR=1&ND=1&PN=1&RR=-1&ST=&MN=msnFeed&FPT=SDCF&NDS=1&NMS=1&NDP=1&MRS=&PD=0&brnId=2455&lnkId=8070676&Issdt=140805051220&IsFtr=0&IsSmart=0&dlprc=18.48&SKU=G1236681) US Technical Information Center

I suspect its III only. A great many "synthetics" are these days. However, oil refining has progressed so much in past few years, conventional oil is rapidly gaining on the synthetics. I believe this is why we now see a number of bike and auto companies espousing the use of Blends. Only a very few years ago a Blend was looked down on as a waste of money, now it seems to be a favorite.

As to T6, it takes a lot of viscosity improvers to get that wide a spread and the wider it is, the quicker it shears. This has been borne out by numerous lab tests on BITOG. Nevertheless, if it holds up on the 1330, that would be great.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I suspect its III only. A great many "synthetics" are these days. However, oil refining has progressed so much in past few years, conventional oil is rapidly gaining on the synthetics. I believe this is why we now see a number of bike and auto companies espousing the use of Blends. Only a very few years ago a Blend was looked down on as a waste of money, now it seems to be a favorite.

As to T6, it takes a lot of viscosity improvers to get that wide a spread and the wider it is, the quicker it shears. This has been borne out by numerous lab tests on BITOG. Nevertheless, if it holds up on the 1330, that would be great.
:2excited: :pray:......So is the " TBN " value of 10.6 - a good number ( re. Rotella T-6 Syn ) ? ? ?......................Mikeguyver :thumbup:

[Tango]

The dealer I bought my '11 from said the same. He's no longer my dealer, and didn't get my service business or when I traded it for the '14! Works both ways. :D

The 11's and the 14's are different engines with different specs. :lecturef_smilie: My dealer would have used an alternative oil if I had brought it in. :thumbup: Their suggestion was to get some "Bel Ray" 5-40. :hun: If Amsoil had a 5-40 it would have been used. They stock all Amsoil oils. :thumbup: Tom :trike:

[sddinnh]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

[Tango]

:2excited: :pray:......So is the " TBN " value of 10.6 - a good number ( re. Rotella T-6 Syn ) ? ? ?......................Mikeguyver :thumbup:

Mike 10.6 TBN is good. Using a 12 or 13 would be better. Shell Rotella is a Type III oil. It is not a true synthetic, but a highly refined dino oil. I believe the term used is "hydra fracked". :dontknow: What I don't care for is the wide spread in weight. With a 5-40 type III, the additive package volume wise is large. My two cars call for 0-20 oil. Further more. To be called a semi synthetic oil all they need to do is add 10% synthetic to it. The max is 30%. The oil game is big money. Using the wrong weight while under warranty gives them an easy out! :yikes: Tom :trike:

[ulflyer]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

Absolutely nothing wrong with doing that. I suspect the majority of folks on this forum do just that. There have been
some really high milers...forget the numbers but up near 100K or perhaps more....with BRP dealer installed oil.

I've never run any BRP oil and had it tested so I have no definite knowledge of how it stacks up against other brands and the bottom line is, how the heck do any of us know what is "better"??? Its just our beliefs and gut feelings that make us want to use something else that we "think" might be better! Some of us old motorheads like to get all involved in oil discussions, a topic we enjoy.

[PW2013STL]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

Not a stupid question at all.

The purpose of my post was to show that the BRP oil and their recommended change at 9300 miles is ok based on the test results. Now that I know that the cSt viscosity is low (20w oil level tested at 6000 miles) I am a little concerned about it going to a full 9300 miles, but it still tests out fine.

I personally like Mobil 1, but I am not trying to get others to switch, just stating what I am doing. I will also have a test run at 6000 miles on it and see how it compares. I will also post that - good or bad.

[sddinnh]

Some of us old motorheads like to get all involved in oil discussions, a topic we enjoy.

Oh I enjoy a good oil discussion as well. but since my disability kicked in and I can't get down there to change it, I was just interested if it was something I should try to talk my dealer into. I guess in one sense, I'm a little concerned also and have been changing oil between 3-4000. It's more money, but I'd rather err on the safe side.

[Tango]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

Steve in no way is this a stupid question! :lecturef_smilie: It's a great question IMO. And is exactly what I do myself. :thumbup: I have no problem letting the dealer do all the maintenance. I will probably never do 9300 miles in one year. So getting the oil changed once a year by the dealer suits me just fine. In the old days I did ALL my oil changes, bike, cars, trucks. Butt, since having my spine fused in two spots, and a belly that makes me look 9 months pregnant. Those days are over. I love talking about oil. And I only stress using the correct oil for your situation. That is "motorcycle oil" in your motorcycle. :thumbup: Tom :thumbup:

[billybovine]

In 2011 I was new to the Spyder world an new to this board. At the time there were a lot of posts on how great an oil and inexpensive Rottela T6 was. So when I changed my oil that is what I used. My clutch started slipping after about 600 miles. After some questions on this board I was direct to this thread http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?6390-FYI-Shell-Rotella-synthetic. I dumped the oil and put in BRP oil and it took a couple hundred miles and the clutch slipping stopped. If I had of read that first I would not have tried it.

Now this thread is for the 1330 engine and this issue may very well not apply. Especially since, do not use SM rated oil warning, does not apply to this engine. I bring this up just for informative purposes.

Also in this thread are posts referring to when BRP brought out their own blend of oil instead of relabeling someones elses. That is when the viscosities changed and the recommendation for Spyders changed to blended instead of full synthetic.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Why not accomplish a small reality check. Take samples of new unused oil and have them tested as a baseline. This would include the BRP mystery oils, both synthetic and blended.

Post the results of each oil as new.

Then if various machines are run with these oils, the results could be posted at a later date.

The Rotella T6 meets the text book definition in the owners manual for the 1330.

5W40 semi-synthetic (minimum)
or synthetic motorcycle oil
meeting the requirements for API service
SL, SJ, SH, SG or higher classification.

So with the knowledge pool gathered here...what in the world is a 5w40 semi-synthetic (minimum), and what is the maximum. Does this mean 20w50 is above the minimum? Is the minimum that it must be at least semi synthetic.

Also, is it really that important if the oil is a III or IV. If it meets the specs called for by engineering, then anything better is more than needed.

All the best with it.

PK:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:............ ..I AGREE WITH YOU 110 %...............​What's your opinion about tom's remark's in post # 71 ( not criticizing Him ) just trying to learn ....Mikeguyver :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

In 2011 I was new to the Spyder world an new to this board. At the time there were a lot of posts on how great an oil and inexpensive Rottela T6 was. So when I changed my oil that is what I used. My clutch started slipping after about 600 miles. After some questions on this board I was direct to this thread http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?6390-FYI-Shell-Rotella-synthetic. I dumped the oil and put in BRP oil and it took a couple hundred miles and the clutch slipping stopped. If I had of read that first I would not have tried it.

Now this thread is for the 1330 engine and this issue may very well not apply. Especially since, do not use SM rated oil warning, does not apply to this engine. I bring this up just for informative purposes.

Also in this thread are posts referring to when BRP brought out their own blend of oil instead of relabeling someones elses. That is when the viscosities changed and the recommendation for Spyders changed to blended instead of full synthetic.
:dontknow:......Billy ...I don't think the formula was the same ......................Mikeguyver :thumbup::thumbup:

[billybovine]

Why not accomplish a small reality check. Take samples of new unused oil and have them tested as a baseline. This would include the BRP mystery oils, both synthetic and blended.

Post the results of each oil as new.

Then if various machines are run with these oils, the results could be posted at a later date.

The Rotella T6 meets the text book definition in the owners manual for the 1330.

5W40 semi-synthetic (minimum)
or synthetic motorcycle oil
meeting the requirements for API service
SL, SJ, SH, SG or higher classification.

So with the knowledge pool gathered here...what in the world is a 5w40 semi-synthetic (minimum), and what is the maximum. Does this mean 20w50 is above the minimum? Is the minimum that it must be at least semi synthetic.

Also, is it really that important if the oil is a III or IV. If it meets the specs called for by engineering, then anything better is more than needed.

All the best with it.

PK

I will disagree for discussion purposes. You say that Rottela T6 meets the requirements of the owners manual. I say it fails to meet the requirement of being a motorcycle oil, it is a heavy equipment oil. In fact more a diesel engine oil.

People point to the JASO MA rating in the description notes as proof it is good for motorcycle wet clutch use. Since BRP does not specify a JASO requirement, is a MA rating good enough? Would they specify a minimum rating of MA2?

[billybovine]

Automatic or rpm based clutches truly can have concerns. Sadly they are somewhat of a moving target. So much of engagement depends on the rider and how their style twists the throttle. The key is obtaining lockup of the clutch. I have never ridden the earlier Spyder, but have worked with many auto clutches. The balance between smooth engagement, lockup, controlling heat, and also the rpm of engagement create variables for not only the design team but also the end user. There seem to be many discussion on here about how the earlier clutch needed higher rpm to lockup.

It is possible that maybe the Rotella t6 is very good at controlling these parameters that it could have used either a lower rpm to lockup or more likely a greater clamp force to hold the plates. Not saying this specifically happened, but it could be also that the riders style created a worn or glazed clutch, the t6 was unable to grab the clutch plates and more slippage occurred.

It would be a great comparison to see if the users of t6 in SM machines were experiencing slippage. That removes the majority of variables and is a good indicator for the clutch and t6 being able to run max hp to the wheel with no slippage.

All the best with it.

PK

In my experience the clutch slippage occurred well above the rated stall speed of 3200 =/-200. It stopped after changing Amsoil. I cannot speak to performance in an SM, I don't have one.

[Tango]

pk you explained it very well. Much better than I.... :thumbup: Having never seen a bottle of BRP oil. Does it have a JASO MA rating? :dontknow: Tom :trike:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

In reply to Bluekinight911 asking about this post, I posted links so others could learn more. I am not sure if Rotella T6 is Type III and if so, what percent is synthetic. The post is accurate though, however a bit tough to follow. To be labeled synthetic oil, it should be 30% or more synthetic. Semi Synthetic will range from 10>30% synthetic.

A concern is the TBN and as explained in the link, higher is better, but also consider that per the link, many oils start new at 6>9. TBN 3 is referenced as a change the oil level.

I do agree 5w40 is a wide range. Myself I would prefer closer ranges based on ambient temps. The thin rating will help during start up, after that the 40 would be my preference.

My take on much of this is that very seldom does the discussion isolate two things. We run oil to lubricate the engine and keep it clean. The oil will become contaminated over time. I doubt our engine has too much effect on shearing the oil and honestly these three cylinder machines do not seem to heavily worked. What is a concern is the gearbox. The gears will pull the oil apart. The engine makes oil dirty from blow by and combustion precess. The gears shred to oil with contamination from the clutch. While no doubt ferrous particles come off the gears, hopefully these are held by the magnetic drain plug.

Considering the 1330 Spyder holds more oil than a small 4 cylinder car, is smaller in displacement of most cars, but does have a gearbox shared with it, the amount of oil held vs the abuse it sees leans towards the machine carries a lot of oil and the oil performance will taper off slowly.

In the engine alone, the oil may very well go over 10k. As a shared design, it may be best to not grab every published mile per the owners manual and spend a bit more for more frequent oil changes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Base_Number

There are many good oils available that are moto rated. Probably all are going to work well and give a long life to the machine.

PK:yes::yes::yes:....Thanks again for your time with this topic and answering questions, especially mine :roflblack:.......I am pretty sure I understand at least 95 % of what you are saying and I agree with your statements and logic 110 % .......:clap::clap::clap:......................Mik eguyver :2excited: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[billybovine]

Ahh, comedy...The BRP Synthetic Blend that comes in the "change your oil kit" says a lot about how it is for the BRP products, and being specially designed for BR stuff. Honestly it says nothing to indicate a viscosity, a rating, or any technical info in either English or French.

PK

That's correct and the fact is they don't have to. Before 2009 they did. They were just just putting different label on someone elses product. The API certification follows the formula not the oil brand. When they dropped their previous supplier in 2009 and went with their own formula they did not spend the money to get a API certification. So they don't put any references to API standards or tests on the bottle. Why should they? They are not marketing to use in other branded products.

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: I think you lost me again...
(Not really all that tough of a thing to do! :opps:)

DO YOU THINK...
...That the BRP Blended version; is a good-enough oil to last for the 9300 miles? :dontknow:

[billybovine]

I am willing to listen, seriously, I am.

Could Rotella T6 be too good? Possibly.

Maybe BRP should specify a designated rating that clarifies the owners manual. As is, they stipulate a motorcycle oil and a rating that is reflecting a minimum or higher.

As mentioned, maybe it is too good. Should it meet JASO MA2, not according to BRP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Rotella_T

Motorcycle usage


Though marketed as an engine oil for diesel trucks, Rotella oil has found popularity with motorcyclists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycling) as well. The lack of "friction modifiers" in Rotella means they do not interfere with wet clutch operations. (This is called a "shared sump" design, which is unlike automobiles which maintain separate oil reservoirs - one for the engine and one for the transmission). Used oil analysis (UOA) reports on BobIsTheOilGuy.com have shown wear metals levels comparable to oils marketed as motorcycle-specific.
JASO-MA

JASO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Automotive_Standards_Organization) is an acronym that stands for "The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization." Among other things, they set standards for oil to be used in motorcycles.
Shell Rotella T 15W-40 conventional oil does list on its packaging JASO MA as one of the specifications it meets. Note that the 10W-30 conventional oil does not list JASO-MA.
The newer fully synthetic T6 5W-40 oil lists JASO-MA compliance on its packaging and on the Rotella website.


I said I am willing to listen, the internet has many posts about T6 being used in machines will mileage on them and some have had clutch slippage. There is also a large following of people using T6 with no issues.

An auto clutch can be a difficult item. When we raced Karts, wet clutches were common. While not the exact same, these were smaller in size, but similar in effect. The settings were adjusted to create slip to a given point of torque.


This is a copy and paste from the 2013 RT owners manual

EngineOil
Recommended Engine Oil
The same oil is used for the engine,
gearbox, clutch, and the Hydraulic Control
Module (HCM) on the SE5 model.
Use the XPS 4-STROKE SYNTH.
BLEND OIL (SUMMER) (P/N 293 600
121) or a 5W40 semi-synthetic (minimum)
or synthetic motorcycle oil
meeting the requirements for API service
SL, SJ, SH or SG classification.
Always check the API service label on
the oil container.
NOTICE To avoid damaging the
clutch, do not use a motor oil meeting
theAPI serviceSMor ILSACGF-4
classification. Clutch slippage will
occur.
NOTICE Do not add any oil additives
to the recommended oil. This
may lead to gearbox and clutchmalfunctions.

This is a copy and paste from the current Shell information spec sheet.

SAE Viscosity Grade: 5W-40
API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, SM, SL, SH; ACEA E9; Caterpillar
ECF-3, ECF-2; Cummins CES 20081; DDC 93K218; Ford WSS
M2C171-E; JASO DH-2, MA; Mack EO-O Premium Plus; MB Approval
228.31; Volvo VDS-4

According to current published info, the T6 should not be used in the 2013 Spyder.

Possibly Shell had not submitted the oil for new testing when you ran it. Maybe it is just too good for a motorcycle wet clutch, but it seems odd it meets the specs for a wet clutch.

Really, I am listening. Explain some more beyond the clutch slipped and stopped slipping after the oil was "flushed" out. By the sound of it, T6 is too good and an oil that can hold the clutch is less of an oil.

FWIW, I did some looking at BITOG older posts from 2010 and back then T6 was rated as an SM. Not sure what to say, could there have been some bad info and you used an SM oil in a machine specifically not approved for it. I don't know and not accussing, simply asking. Again I am willing to listen.

PK

That is exactly what I did I put an SM rated oil in my 09 that was strictly forbidden by my owner’s manual. That was wrong on my part and regret doing it.

Today on another thread folks again are recommending someone else put Rottela T6 in a 998 engine. Even when the OP said had a better choice available. Again their reason was that it had a JASO MA test result, even though BRP does not specify a JASO rating and completely ignoring the fact that it is API rated SM. Since MA has something to do with motorcycle wet clutch slippage, which must be good and ignore what that means as well. JASO MA does not mean it passed anything; it is a classification based on 3 performance test results. That was what was happening in 2011 as well. Not knowing any better at the time I used it, with the results I stated. Since then I have been doing a lot of reading and have learn a lot about oil. More than I ever want to know in fact. I have read several versions of the actual JASO wet clutch slippage test spec. Sorry off hand I don't remember the spec number. The original spec had 2 possible results for wet clutch slippage MB or MA. In the preamble to a later spec revision it was noted that the MA spec was way too broad for several motorcycle manufacturers and were having clutch slippage issues with oil rated MA. Thus it was revised to 4 possible outcomes, MB, MA, MA1, and MA2. At no point in the spec does it say that any one of these out comes is better than the other. It is up to the manufacturer to specify what is required. Since BRP does not specify a JASO specification to meet I am wary when anyone says that MA is good enough. Why not MA1, maybe MA2 or MB.

I think that anyone using non motorcycle, API SM rated oil in a 998 engine is in violation of the requirements in the owner’s manual. You have the right to do whatever you please. You should own up to whatever the outcome is as well. If you recommend this to someone else you need to warn them that you are in violation of the requirement in the owners manual.

Since this a 1330 thread and not a 998 thread, the API SM rating does not apply. What does apply is that Rottela T6 is not motorcycle oil. It is diesel engine oil, as clearly stated on the front label. Having the JASO test result of MA is meaningless since BRP does not specify a requirement. Because Wikipedia says many people are using it in other motorcycles is also meaningless. The only thing that matters is if you use it in a 1330 engine will it give you 10s of thousands of good performance over multiple oil changes. It may just do that. I don’t know. Anyone claiming that they do, well I won’t say it. We need a couple guinea pigs to try it out. Also live with the result if it does not work out and not blame BRP.

My point in bringing this up in the first place is educational. There could be maybe a down side to Rottela T6. I hate a group think love in. Just because someone or a group says this is good to use may not be accurate. They may not know or understand the facts either. Make your choices based on what you think is best and if you are wrong oh well, fix it and move on and don’t blame someone else. It is also possible this is the best possible oil you could use in your 1330. It just does not meet the requirements of being motorcycle oil.

[billybovine]

:shocked: I think you lost me again...
(Not really all that tough of a thing to do! :opps:)

DO YOU THINK...
...That the BRP Blended version; is a good-enough oil to last for the 9300 miles? :dontknow:

There are some that believe that it is not. It is always possible that they are correct. The most important opinion is BRP's and they claim it is. It is possible that they are wrong. :shocked:

[Highwayman2013]

I just tried Rotella T6 in my Kawasaki for 3000 miles and it performed well, no clutch slippage .

[Tango]

:shocked: I think you lost me again...
(Not really all that tough of a thing to do! :opps:)

DO YOU THINK...
...That the BRP Blended version; is a good-enough oil to last for the 9300 miles? :dontknow:

In a nut shell, yes. IMHO BRP says so. If you have an engine related, or clutch related problem. And they ask, "what oil did you use"? You kept the receipts, yes? You are covered, if you used their oil. Beyond any doubt. I used your dealer, your oil, your filter. You said I could go 9300 miles, or one year on the same oil. End of story, fix the damn thing. If you do your own oil changes, make sure you keep good records. Friend of mine riding a Victory had an engine related problem. First question asked, "who changed the oil"? He did. Next, "do you have receipts". He had to produce the receipts for the oil and filters. All manufacturers are looking for ways to not approve warranty work. Don't give it to them. :thumbup: Tom :trike:

[billybovine]

I have read and re read your post.

OK, so the wrong oil was used and predicted results occurred. No big deal for you anymore. This is behind us.

Yes, this is a 1330 based topic, so even the SM rated oils are allowed.

I have one question at this point. Not arguing or being a smart ass. If we took the motorcycle badging off a bottle of Mobil 1 10w40 moto oil, it too is rated JASO MA what would distinguish it to be a moto oil? I am seeing it is CF rated which should be a diesel rating.

Copied from a Mobil 1 moto spec sheet










http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Images/Tabs/box_LeftUpper.pngMobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 motorcycle oil meets or exceeds the requirements of:
API SM
API SL
API SJ
JASO MA

According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is of the following quality level:
API SH
API CF


PK

I have said in the past in many posts that Mobile 1 10w 30 motorcycle oil does not meets the requirements of BRP for 998 engines because it is rated API SM.
It does appear to meet the requirements of BRP for the 1330 engine.
In regards to the JASO MA rating. I know BRP does not specify, but it is rare for a motorcycle oil to only meet JASO MA rating, most meet a MA2 rating. My personal choice if I had a 1330 engine would be not to use Mobile 1 because of the MA rating and go for an oil with a JASO rating of MA2. Because of the unknowns here, reality could be that MA is good enough.

[jcthorne]

The Shell Rotella T6 is JASO MA2 rated, not just MA

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Local_TDS_United_States_Shell_Rotella_T6_5W-40_(CJ-4)_(en-US)_TDS.pdf

It is also API SM which for the moment appears to negate its use in the 998 but not the 1330. The M1 motorcycle oils are also SM rated. So far the only major brand I have found to meet the requirements for the 998 that is available off the shelf is the Valvoline Motorcycle full synthetic.

[Ivan2]

Thanks for this report! :thumbup:
Question: Would you suggest using BRP's full synthetic, as opposed to their blend? :dontknow:
(I'm getting REAL close to the 3,000 mile tap-dance... I'd like to be sure of what to ask for! :D)

I recently performed the 9000 mile service on my 2014 and requested the BRP full synthetic oil. I was told by the dealer that BRP no longer recommends the full synthetic because it is causing clutch problems.

[jcthorne]

I recently performed the 9000 mile service on my 2014 and requested the BRP full synthetic oil. I was told by the dealer that BRP no longer recommends the full synthetic because it is causing clutch problems.

It was more likely that your dealer did not have the synthetic in stock and made up a story to tell you to go away. There is no service bulletin to this effect and the BRP synthetic is still for sale on the BRP web site and else where.

[Ed_H]

Below is an URL for JASO specifications and a list of motorcycle oils that are actually certified by Jaso. It's dated 8/1/2014, so it appears current. When the page opens, go to the left column and about 2/3's down you will see...(JASO Onfile)...click on that and then on the next screen click on "ENGLISH" and in the next screen click on the "Motorcycle Four Cycle Gasoline Engine Oil" and you will be at the main info screen. Specs for MA, MA2, are in there.

http://www.jalos.or.jp/

[Tango]

It was more likely that your dealer did not have the synthetic in stock and made up a story to tell you to go away. There is no service bulletin to this effect and the BRP synthetic is still for sale on the BRP web site and else where.

My dealer told me the same thing. Full synthetic not recommended for the 1330. :ohyea: That makes two dealers. :yikes: Tom :trike:

[ulflyer]

My dealer told me the same thing. Full synthetic not recommended for the 1330. :ohyea: That makes two dealers. :yikes: Tom :trike:

I say BALONEY! I think they are confusing "not necessary" with "not recommended". Big, big difference. :sour:

[Guzzi]

Whats wrong with just using BRP oil? All the experts on the forum can't seem to agree on what to use? I personally just use the BRP full synthetic on my 2014. I see no issues, and it's a BRP product, so if anything happens, its their problem.

[A1A]

Thanks for posting this oil information thread PW2013STL.:thumbup:

[PW2013STL]

Thanks for posting this oil information thread PW2013STL.:thumbup:

You are welcome and when I get 6000 miles on the Moble 1 I will do the same. 2,000 miles to go!

[OldCowboy]

The Shell Rotella T6 is JASO MA2 rated, not just MA

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Local_TDS_United_States_Shell_Rotella_T6_5W-40_(CJ-4)_(en-US)_TDS.pdf

It is also API SM which for the moment appears to negate its use in the 998 but not the 1330. The M1 motorcycle oils are also SM rated. So far the only major brand I have found to meet the requirements for the 998 that is available off the shelf is the Valvoline Motorcycle full synthetic.

Castrol Power RS™ Racing 4T is a full synthetic rated API SL and JASO MA2. It is available off the shelf in 10W-40 http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/7305E463374A5C1E80257AA9005372F2/$File/Castrol_Power_RS_4T_06410.pdf

[BikerDoc]

I have gone through the 3000 mile and two 9300 s using BRP Oem oil and it has run great and not used a drop of oil

[Roadster Renovations]

I am home now and have the Napa kit ($15) in hand. Should have some good info on the BRP oil out of my RT by mid-week next week. That oil has almost 4,000 miles on it. Interested to see what the shearing has dropped to. Will also have them check for contaminants including any metals. I'll post the results when I get it.

[obiwan57]

To clarify - I ran BRP oil and had that tested at 6000 miles (9000 on the Spyder). The first service was done by the dealer then at 9000 miles I changed the oil switching over to Mobil 1 motorcycle oil as I have been using Mobil synthatic oil in all my motorcycles for many years with great results.

Hello, is Mobil 1 10W40 a good choice for the 998 motor? I just bought a 2013 Spyder RT Limited, and would like to know what oil to buy to have on hand. The dealer will be doing the regular maintenance, but I know it's good to have oil on hand.

[BajaRon]

My dealer told me the same thing. Full synthetic not recommended for the 1330. :ohyea: That makes two dealers. :yikes: Tom :trike:

Why would a dealer NOT recommend a BETTER product? The only reason I can think of is if the viscosity is wrong.

Dealers USED to say Iridium Spark Plugs were BAD and did not work well in the Rotax motor. Now, guess what comes stock...

When reality and dealers part ways... Stick with reality! :thumbup:

[ulflyer]

I am home now and have the Napa kit ($15) in hand. Should have some good info on the BRP oil out of my RT by mid-week next week. That oil has almost 4,000 miles on it. Interested to see what the shearing has dropped to. Will also have them check for contaminants including any metals. I'll post the results when I get it.

Sounds good Doc. Been wanting to see a lab report on the BRP Blend for some time as I've never used it. :D

[Roadster Renovations]

I cannot find the weight on the BP container. All it says is summer blend. I am thinking it is 15-40 or 15-50. Need to know before I send it off. It is the BRP semi-synthetic from the dealer. Anybody know for sure?

[Roadster Renovations]

BRP parts guy called back and said it was 5-40. That is what I put on the form.

[billybovine]

BRP parts guy called back and said it was 5-40. That is what I put on the form.

The parts guy is correct.

96247

[ulflyer]

The parts guy is correct.

96247

It would be interesting to know who packages the oil for BRP. I know of only one company, right off the top, that makes a 5-40 BLEND and thats Bel Ray. May be others but this is the only one I know of. Several make full synthetic in 5-40. Is this the same stuff that comes in the kit for 998's?

[billybovine]

It would be interesting to know who packages the oil for BRP. I know of only one company, right off the top, that makes a 5-40 BLEND and thats Bel Ray. May be others but this is the only one I know of. Several make full synthetic in 5-40. Is this the same stuff that comes in the kit for 998's?

So you don't believe BRP's marketing dept. that after years of research and millions of dollars in expenses. They created their own blend of engine oil.


http://xpslubricants.com/news_detail_allprod.asp?id=2

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

So you don't believe BRP's marketing dept. that after years of research and millions of dollars in expenses. They created their own blend of engine oil.


http://xpslubricants.com/news_detail_allprod.asp?id=2
..........Billy do you think BRP makes / creates their own OIL............What would be the reasoning to do that...........Not cost saving ......................GM has a heck of a lot more Money to play with and they arn't creating their own OIL.....neither are Ford or Chrysler etc......Hiring professionals to create a Product that you can put your name on is Standard practice .......................................Unless I totally mis-understood your POST on this ????????......Mike :thumbup:

[billybovine]

..........Billy do you think BRP makes / creates their own OIL............What would be the reasoning to do that...........Not cost saving ......................GM has a heck of a lot more Money to play with and they arn't creating their own OIL.....neither are Ford or Chrysler etc......Hiring professionals to create a Product that you can put your name on is Standard practice .......................................Unless I totally mis-understood your POST on this ????????......Mike :thumbup:

That's what BRP says. Of course they don't make their own oil. Of course they would have hired some other company to do the development. But they claim it cost BRP 2 million dollars and 3 years to develop their line of engine oils. So if you believe what BRP says. They are not sticking a different label on someone elses jug.

I am just repeating what I have read. Believe what you will.

[retired1]

I was at my dealer one day when he got an oil order, it came on a Castrol pallet.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

That's what BRP says. Of course they don't make their own oil. Of course they would have hired some other company to do the development. But they claim it cost BRP 2 million dollars and 3 years to develop their line of engine oils. So if you believe what BRP says. They are not sticking a different label on someone elses jug.

I am just repeating what I have read. Believe what you will.
Billy back in the beginning BRP used to say " if you don't use FULL SYNTHETIC " the Spyder will self destruct .....Yes that is an exaggeration, but they haven't changed anything in their metallurgy in the engines to make them a lot stronger so you can use inferior ( read that as BLENDED ) OIL.......They having someone create an oil to their specs and they are putting their name on it .......And they are not the only company that does this .............Just sayin.....Mike :thumbup:

[Roadster Renovations]

I have to agree with Mike on this. Napa sells their "house oil" that is actually Valvoline in the bottle under their label. I would venture a guess that BRP spent all that money finding the best blends, then hiring someone to bottle it under their name. I see nothing at all wrong with them doing that. And I think their oil is great. Unless this oil report shows me something that I don't like, I will probably continue with their oil, regardless of who blends it for them.

[Lilly]

Had 1 dealer say i needed to change oil at 600 miles for RTS 2014>>>>another dealer told me 3000 miles>>which one is correct????? Do all dealers charge same amount of money on 1st maintenance?? Thks in advance :)

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Had 1 dealer say i needed to change oil at 600 miles for RTS 2014>>>>another dealer told me 3000 miles>>which one is correct????? Do all dealers charge same amount of money on 1st maintenance?? Thks in advance :):welcome:..........................Dear Lily......it's 3000 miles for first service as stated in your OWNERS manual. This the most critical OIL change you will do......I recommend the sooner the better ......At the beginning of the life of your Spyder the engine sort goes thru a self cleaning process ......using the oil to do so.......that oil gets very dirty very fast.......so does the filter.....So the initial change gets the bad stuff out and the sooner the better.......In reality unless you are a High mileage rider you will only change oil and filter once a year ( maybe more if you live where you can ride 10 to 12 mo.a year ) ...The new 2014 -1330 Ace engine has an extended oil and filter change schedule , but personally I use FULL SYNTHETIC OIL and won't go more than 6000 miles without changing it with the filter..........And about Dealer charges ......they are all over the board on that ....shop around if you can, or better yet learn how.......Or ask here for someone to give you a hand ........it's been done before .............Mike :thumbup:

[ulflyer]

I was at my dealer one day when he got an oil order, it came on a Castrol pallet.

A while back it was generally accepted that Castrol was the supplier and that the summer BLEND was a 10-40 and the winter SYNTHETIC was a 5-40.

Castrol is one of the few that make a motorcycle synthetic in 5-40. However, not long ago when I mentioned the above, someone (forget who) corrected me and said BRP had changed their supplier a couple years ago. Thats why I mentioned Bel Ray above.

How long ago was it that you saw the pallet of Castrol?

Do I believe BRP makes their own oil? Absolutely not!
Do I believe they spent a million or so developing it? Absolutely not...marketing hype is the name of the game.

How will we know how good their Blended oil is? When DocHumprey gets his lab report back, that will go a long way to tell us what the quality is. If it comes back showing the viscosity is still 40W or near that, I'll post an apology to everyone and beg BRP's forgiveness for doubting them!

Furthermore, I'll provide a prepaid test kit to anyone who does their own oil changes and has 9000 miles on the Blend if they will send it in and post the results here.

You'll need to get the sample immediately when it starts draining (not out of the drain container as that would be contaminated), or preferably siphon some out with a clean hose.

Any takers?

PS: I'm not knocking BRP oil. I'm saying that I firmly believe that NO approved motorcycle oil, whether its Blended, full synthetic, or Dino, will make it to 4000 miles maintaining its viscosity of 40W in either the 998 or 1330 motor.

[billybovine]

Billy back in the beginning BRP used to say " if you don't use FULL SYNTHETIC " the Spyder will self destruct .....Yes that is an exaggeration, but they haven't changed anything in their metallurgy in the engines to make them a lot stronger so you can use inferior ( read that as BLENDED ) OIL.......They having someone create an oil to their specs and they are putting their name on it .......And they are not the only company that does this .............Just sayin.....Mike :thumbup:

In the Spyder beginning BRP recommended full synthetic 5w40 oil. I strongly suspect it was a product from another vendor with BRP's label on it. If you believe BRP in 2009 they rolled out their own oil. Synthetic changed to 0w40 from 5w40 and blended changed to 5w40 from 10w40. Because the oil changed the recommendation for use changed. Synthetic was recommended for winter use (snowmobiles) and blended recommended for summer use (Spyders, ATVs, Seadoos, etc.) It had nothing to do with changes to the engine.

[Roadster Renovations]

So what about full synthetic being to slick for the clutch? Or is that a bunch of :cus:?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

So what about full synthetic being to slick for the clutch? Or is that a bunch of :cus:?
.....I've been using Rotella 5 W/ 40 full Syn in my 2014 RT and have not had any issues in the past 4500 + miles .......Note this OIL is only certified for the 1330 Ace engine ....Mike :thumbup:......................................PS. ..for you bargain hunters , this sells for about $23 per Gal @ Walmart

[ulflyer]

So what about full synthetic being to slick for the clutch? Or is that a bunch of :cus:?

Its a bunch of Phooy as long as the oil is motorcycle certified.
BRP still sells the synthetic as far as I know, and you've got
Amsoil, Valvoline, Castrol, and a bunch of others. Take a look
here for cycle oils:

http://www.powersportsuperstore.com/Engine-Oil-s/283.htm

[Orange Spyder Man]

I am considering going to Castrol T4 5W40 full synthetic motorcycle oil JASO-MA-2 API SL rating... anyone else using this in their RT ?

[Roadster Renovations]

I hope the lab didn't lose my oil sample. It was only going one state over. Maybe tomorrow......

[ulflyer]

I hope the lab didn't lose my oil sample. It was only going one state over. Maybe tomorrow......

Doc, I've had them take up to two weeks, but usually its much quicker. Should have it sometime this week...hopefully. :D

In case you don't have this, here is a viscosity chart for you:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

[Roadster Renovations]

Awesome! Thanks!

[Bill_1]

From the report you should be fine as it looks like a quality oil :2thumbs:

Amsoil is not a full synthetic it is 100% synthetic.Does anyone in really know the difference between the full and the 100%?

[Bill_1]

SYNTHETIC OIL MYTHS

Myth: Once you switch to synthetic oil you can never switch back. This is one of the most persistent myths about synthetic oil—and completely untrue. You can switch back and forth at any time. In fact, synthetic blends are simply a mixture of synthetic and conventional oils. It is advisable that you use the same oil for top-ups if needed, thereby giving you the best protection from the oil that you have chosen.
Myth: You shouldn’t use synthetic oil in an older vehicle. The myth is rooted in the idea that synthetic oil is “slipperier,” lower in viscosity, or not as compatible with seals and will therefore leak or leak more in places conventional oil might not. Again, completely untrue. Synthetic oils will enhance the engine protection in older vehicles just as they do for new engines.
Myth: You should break in your engine with conventional oil before you start using synthetic oil. Again, there’s no manufacturer we’re aware of that makes this recommendation. Mercedes, Porsche, Corvette, some Cadillacs, Volkswagen, Hyundai and many other manufacturers’ cars come from the factory with synthetic oil.
Myth: Using a synthetic oil voids a car’s warranty. Untrue. The only engines that specifically exclude the use of a synthetic motor oil are some Mazda rotary engines.
Myth: Synthetics made from Group III base oils are not true synthetics and are not as good as PAO-based synthetics in Group IV. Again, untrue. Synthetics made from Group III oil can, in some cases, outperform those made in Group IV oils in some areas of performance.

Maybe some one has learned something from your post..

[Bill_1]

Mobil 1 vs. AMSOIL
Independent ASTM Certified Laboratory Testing of the new Mobil 1 Extended Performance vs. AMSOIL (and nine other major brand name motor oils) has been completed. AMSOIL is the clear winner.


Mobil 1 EP Evaporates 38% Faster Than AMSOIL, Mobil 1 EP Allows 18% More
Cold Start Friction and Mobil 1 EP Allows 22% MORE Wear


In addition, on the TFOUT test, the "Thin Film Oxygen Uptake Test" (ASTM D-
4742), which provides a very good correlation to the drain interval
capability of an oil, AMSOIL passed the 500 minute cut-off mark with flying
colors and still going strong, while Mobil 1 fell
short at only 469 minutes. Once again, we say that Mobil 1 is a good
quality product, however it does not compare to AMSOIL and the test data
clearly shows this.

[Highwayman2013]

It would be nice to find out who did these tests. I'm still using the BRP oil in my 2012.

[PW2013STL]

A while back it was generally accepted that Castrol was the supplier and that the summer BLEND was a 10-40 and the winter SYNTHETIC was a 5-40.

Castrol is one of the few that make a motorcycle synthetic in 5-40. However, not long ago when I mentioned the above, someone (forget who) corrected me and said BRP had changed their supplier a couple years ago. Thats why I mentioned Bel Ray above.

How long ago was it that you saw the pallet of Castrol?

Do I believe BRP makes their own oil? Absolutely not!
Do I believe they spent a million or so developing it? Absolutely not...marketing hype is the name of the game.

How will we know how good their Blended oil is? When DocHumprey gets his lab report back, that will go a long way to tell us what the quality is. If it comes back showing the viscosity is still 40W or near that, I'll post an apology to everyone and beg BRP's forgiveness for doubting them!

Furthermore, I'll provide a prepaid test kit to anyone who does their own oil changes and has 9000 miles on the Blend if they will send it in and post the results here.

You'll need to get the sample immediately when it starts draining (not out of the drain container as that would be contaminated), or preferably siphon some out with a clean hose.

Any takers?

PS: I'm not knocking BRP oil. I'm saying that I firmly believe that NO approved motorcycle oil, whether its Blended, full synthetic, or Dino, will make it to 4000 miles maintaining its viscosity of 40W in either the 998 or 1330 motor.

In answer to your question -

I started this thread about the results of BRP's blended oil after 6000 miles. Every thing looked good, but it sheared DOWN TO 20w.

It did not hold it's 40w rating!

In one week I will be changing my oil again and sending in a sample of Mobil 1 10-40 full synthetic that will also have 6000 miles on it to be tested. I will report the results when I receive that report back.

At this oil change I will be trying the BRP full synthetic 0-40w oil and will do the same in 6000 miles. The results of this one will not happen until next year as winter is fast approaching.

The reason I am doing this is to find the best oil for me to use.

I am very interested in hearing Doc's results as well.

[PW2013STL]

I hope the lab didn't lose my oil sample. It was only going one state over. Maybe tomorrow......

Doc what lab are you using? I used Blackstone.

[PW2013STL]

So what about full synthetic being to slick for the clutch? Or is that a bunch of :cus:?

5800 miles on full synthetic with out any issues and yesterday I purchased BRP's full synthetic from the lead Spyder tech at the dealer and he sure did not give me any BS about it not working with the clutch.

Short answer to your question is - Yes it is a bunch of :cus:

[Bill_1]

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil is recommended for liquid or air-cooled 4-stroke engines. It meets SAE 80W/90, API GL-1 gear oil requirements and is recommended for transmissions on both 4- and 2-stroke motorcycles. AMSOIL MCF is recommended for Honda®, Kawasaki®, Yamaha®, Suzuki®, BMW®, Husqvarna®, Victory® and other motorcycles where 10W-40 or 20W-40 engine oils or SAE 80W/90, GL-1 gear oils are used. Not recommended where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required.
Provides Excellent Wet Clutch Performance
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. AMSOIL MCF controls heat and prevents slippage and glazing, helping improve clutch life. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil meets the wet clutch frictional requirements of JASO Standard T903: 2006, MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2 of ISO Standard 24254:2007.
.96780

[Roadster Renovations]

I got the kit from Napa. In the container there were 3-4 different addresses that you could use to ship to. I figured that the lab in Ohio would be the closest, so the report would come back quicker. Still waiting...... The actual name of the lab is down at the shop. I'll post it tomorrow. They need to hurry up!

[Highwayman2013]

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil is recommended for liquid or air-cooled 4-stroke engines. It meets SAE 80W/90, API GL-1 gear oil requirements and is recommended for transmissions on both 4- and 2-stroke motorcycles. AMSOIL MCF is recommended for Honda[emoji768], Kawasaki[emoji768], Yamaha[emoji768], Suzuki[emoji768], BMW[emoji768], Husqvarna[emoji768], Victory[emoji768] and other motorcycles where 10W-40 or 20W-40 engine oils or SAE 80W/90, GL-1 gear oils are used. Not recommended where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required.
Provides Excellent Wet Clutch Performance
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil contains no friction modifiers and promotes smooth shifting and positive clutch engagement. AMSOIL MCF controls heat and prevents slippage and glazing, helping improve clutch life. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil meets the wet clutch frictional requirements of JASO Standard T903: 2006, MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2 of ISO Standard 24254:2007.
.96780

Starting to look like an ad.

[PW2013STL]

Starting to look like an ad.

IT IS!

Look at all his posts

[BajaRon]

Amsoil is not a full synthetic it is 100% synthetic.Does anyone in really know the difference between the full and the 100%?

Not sure if your question is straight up or rhetorical. I'll treat it as the former.

After the Castrol vs Mobil 1 lawsuit decision, this has become a very murky subject.

Before the lawsuit an oil had to be specifically 'Engineered' at the refining stage to be called 'Synthetic', which Mobil 1 (and a few others) were.

Castrol started taking standard, Type III mineral based oil and combining it with an additive package. Kind of like taking standard oil and adding Slick 50 or STP to it. A bit crude but it gets the general point across. Castrol marketed this product as 'Synthetic'. Since this required a less expensive production process, Castrol was able to sell this oil for less than the True Synthetics like Mobil 1, Amsoil, etc.

So, Mobil 1 sued Castrol for misleading marketing and false advertising. At the time everyone thought it was a slam dunk for Mobil 1 since it was considered ridiculous that a non-synthetic oil could be marketed as 'Synthetic'. But, to the surprise of many, Castrol prevailed. So now you have 2 very different oils both being marketed as 'Synthetic'. Very confusing. This is only legal in the US. No other country allows a Castrol like product to be marked as 'Synthetic'.

The quality of what I call Doctored Dyno Oil depends on the additive package which is designed to protect the inferior Type III mineral oil because it breaks down too quickly. When the additive package goes away, so does your lubrication. Some additive packages are very good. Others are not. But they will all be sold as 'Synthetic'.

Since engineered synthetic oils like Mobil 1 and Amsoil are much stronger, they need little or no additives or modifiers.

All of today's modern oils are light years ahead of lubricants from the past. And a good thing too because the stress placed on lubricants from today's power plants is much greater than in the past. Most any 'Synthetic' oil will do a good job regardless of which method of production is used as long as you change it frequently enough.

Typically, a Type IV, engineered synthetic will out last and out lubricate a Type III additive package synthetic oil.

[jcthorne]

Just and FYI, many of the products Mobil One markets are now Type III. Some are Type IV but not all. The old Mobil lubricants division is long gone. Mobil One is just a marketing brand for ExxonMobil now. They now market a range of products under that label.

Through testing, we have also found that not all Type IV synthetics are necessarily 'better' than all Type IIIs. Case in point for our shop was Mobil Delvac One vs Shell Rotella T6. The Delvac One used to be a terrific product up until the time Exxon took over. Long about 2001 or 2002, the quality changed and so did the lab results. (This was also about the time of the marketing scandal lawsuit previously mentioned) Many guess that Exxon changed the formula of Delvac One from a true type IV to a type III (which they had very little experience with having always marketed Type IV full synthetics). No one outside the company really knows. Lots of folks were warned by several of the testing labs based on very poor test results to switch brands. This is how we started using Rotella T6 (was called Rotella Synthetic back then) and have since with great lab results histories to show for it.

The point of all this rambling is, its not as simple as Type IV is great, Type III is not so good. There are great Type III Synthetics and there are poor Type IV oils. Oh, and Type III oils are not simply conventional oils with an additive package. They are much more highly refined than that, the difference is Type IIIs are indeed refined from crude oil stocks. Type IV oils are refined from various 'plastics' (esters).....which were themselves refined from crude oil and natural gas stocks. Very different processes and the type IIIs are indeed cheaper to produce, but again, not necessarily not as good.

[Highwayman2013]

IT IS!

Look at all his postsHe should sign up as a sponsor.

[BajaRon]

Just and FYI, many of the products Mobil One markets are now Type III. Some are Type IV but not all. The old Mobil lubricants division is long gone. Mobil One is just a marketing brand for ExxonMobil now. They now market a range of products under that label.

True.


Through testing, we have also found that not all Type IV synthetics are necessarily 'better' than all Type IIIs.

True.


The point of all this rambling is, its not as simple as Type IV is great, Type III is not so good. There are great Type III Synthetics and there are poor Type IV oils. Oh, and Type III oils are not simply conventional oils with an additive package. They are much more highly refined than that, the difference is Type IIIs are indeed refined from crude oil stocks. Type IV oils are refined from various 'plastics' (esters).....which were themselves refined from crude oil and natural gas stocks. Very different processes and the type IIIs are indeed cheaper to produce, but again, not necessarily not as good.

True.

Not attempting to be the final word in any oil conversation as there are a lot of details in all of this. And things are changing all the time. Just saying that my research agrees with yours.

I did, admittedly, paint with a broad brush in my post. Results can buck the trend on a product by product basis.

Good post!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Just and FYI, many of the products Mobil One markets are now Type III. Some are Type IV but not all. The old Mobil lubricants division is long gone. Mobil One is just a marketing brand for ExxonMobil now. They now market a range of products under that label.

Through testing, we have also found that not all Type IV synthetics are necessarily 'better' than all Type IIIs. Case in point for our shop was Mobil Delvac One vs Shell Rotella T6. The Delvac One used to be a terrific product up until the time Exxon took over. Long about 2001 or 2002, the quality changed and so did the lab results. (This was also about the time of the marketing scandal lawsuit previously mentioned) Many guess that Exxon changed the formula of Delvac One from a true type IV to a type III (which they had very little experience with having always marketed Type IV full synthetics). No one outside the company really knows. Lots of folks were warned by several of the testing labs based on very poor test results to switch brands. This is how we started using Rotella T6 (was called Rotella Synthetic back then) and have since with great lab results histories to show for it.

The point of all this rambling is, its not as simple as Type IV is great, Type III is not so good. There are great Type III Synthetics and there are poor Type IV oils. Oh, and Type III oils are not simply conventional oils with an additive package. They are much more highly refined than that, the difference is Type IIIs are indeed refined from crude oil stocks. Type IV oils are refined from various 'plastics' (esters).....which were themselves refined from crude oil and natural gas stocks. Very different processes and the type IIIs are indeed cheaper to produce, but again, not necessarily not as good.
:yes::yes::yes:....Thanks JC for confirming my choice in oil....Rotella T-6..............At Walmart approx. $23 per Gallon, I don't think you can buy a better Full Syn Oil for less..Mike :thumbup:

[jcthorne]

:yes::yes::yes:....Thanks JC for confirming my choice in oil....Rotella T-6..............At Walmart approx. $23 per Gallon, I don't think you can buy a better Full Syn Oil for less..Mike :thumbup:


I use it in everything we own EXCEPT our 2013 Spyders. Lab results always great. Still unsure about its use on the older Spyders with the centrifugal clutch. Not enough data either way and its a small amount of oil in the overall scheme of things. We will stick with the Valvoline Motorcycle Synthetic there for now. In your 1330, I don't think you could pick a better oil. It will stand up to shear as well as any out there. Diesels are tough on oils and contain as many gears as your transmission and under much higher load to shear the oil. Its nothing new in that market. There are other good oils out there too, but its nice to be able to stock ONE and use it in most everything. Lawn mowers to my GT and everything in between......

[Roadster Renovations]

Doc what lab are you using? I used Blackstone.
Napa couldn't tell me the name (yet) and I cannot find my paperwork. I may be out that $15. I sent a request in to Blackstone for a container. May have to send in the sample I have in the bike now. Oil and filter will need changed within 1200 miles. Soon after Spyder in the Smokies I will do so.

[ulflyer]

Napa couldn't tell me the name (yet) and I cannot find my paperwork. I may be out that $15. I sent a request in to Blackstone for a container. May have to send in the sample I have in the bike now. Oil and filter will need changed within 1200 miles. Soon after Spyder in the Smokies I will do so.

Pretty sure NAPA sells the Wix kit and Wix uses "ALS" which is a major lab with test centers in several states. Since I live nearest to the one in Atlanta Ga that is where I send mine. It has taken up to two full weeks or a little more at times but normally about 10 working days to get an email report. If you sent it in the container it may have got lost or misrouted by the PO. Again, that happened to one of my first ones and from then on I put them in a brown envelope and have had no problems. If you can find where you sent it, email them or call with the report number and you should get a reply.

[Roadster Renovations]

Pretty sure NAPA sells the Wix kit and Wix uses "ALS" which is a major lab with test centers in several states. Since I live nearest to the one in Atlanta Ga that is where I send mine. It has taken up to two full weeks or a little more at times but normally about 10 working days to get an email report. If you sent it in the container it may have got lost or misrouted by the PO. Again, that happened to one of my first ones and from then on I put them in a brown envelope and have had no problems. If you can find where you sent it, email them or call with the report number and you should get a reply.
i followed up with the main number to the lab and the guy had no record. He did say that they have problems with the PO only delivering them when they have several. He said my best bet was to use Fed-ex or Ups next time. I'm going to give it another week then check again. Probably in 2 weeks it will be time to change the oil and filter again. If nothing else, I should have the Blackstone container by then. Would have been nice if they had rec'd UPS in the instructions.....

[Roadster Renovations]

It's been long enough now that the nojoke have obviously lost my oil sample. I received the Blackstone labs sample bottle and will use it the next time I change oil, probably next week. When sending off to Blackstone, what carrier should I use? Obviously, USPS is not a reliable option. I have about 5,500 on this oil and am getting close to 9,300 on the filter by next week. Bike is still shifting great (SE6) and checking the oil yesterday it looks almost brand new. Not going to take chances, though on the shearing, so I'll change and send it in.

[PW2013STL]

It's been long enough now that the nojoke have obviously lost my oil sample. I received the Blackstone labs sample bottle and will use it the next time I change oil, probably next week. When sending off to Blackstone, what carrier should I use? Obviously, USPS is not a reliable option. I have about 5,500 on this oil and am getting close to 9,300 on the filter by next week. Bike is still shifting great (SE6) and checking the oil yesterday it looks almost brand new. Not going to take chances, though on the shearing, so I'll change and send it in.

Doc I use UPS and I put the bottle into a small box to ship as I do not trust that a bottle that size will make it to them wihthout getting lost. If fact I sent them a sample yesterday of the Mobil 1 with 6235 miles on it. I will report that after I get the results back.
I agree about the shearing as my BRP oil sheared down to 20w at 6000 miles. I am very interested in what your report shows.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Doc I use UPS and I put the bottle into a small box to ship as I do not trust that a bottle that size will make it to them wihthout getting lost. If fact I sent them a sample yesterday of the Mobil 1 with 6235 miles on it. I will report that after I get the results back.
I agree about the shearing as my BRP oil sheared down to 20w at 6000 miles. I am very interested in what your report shows.
.....Sorry but I've lost track ( so many posts etc. ) which BRP oil did you have tested regarding above ( Blended or Full Syn ? ) ...................Thanks ......Mike :thumbup:

[PW2013STL]

.....Sorry but I've lost track ( so many posts etc. ) which BRP oil did you have tested regarding above ( Blended or Full Syn ? ) ...................Thanks ......Mike :thumbup:

Blended.
I now have their full Syn in my Spyder and will test that in 6000 miles also, but since winter in knocking on the door here it will be next year before I have those results.
In order to keep this post small :roflblack: I will start a new post each time I get a report back.

[zuni]

It's been long enough now that the nojoke have obviously lost my oil sample. I received the Blackstone labs sample bottle and will use it the next time I change oil, probably next week. When sending off to Blackstone, what carrier should I use? Obviously, USPS is not a reliable option. I have about 5,500 on this oil and am getting close to 9,300 on the filter by next week. Bike is still shifting great (SE6) and checking the oil yesterday it looks almost brand new. Not going to take chances, though on the shearing, so I'll change and send it in.


Doc, I have been using USPS for my Blackstone samples for a few years with no problems. I put the Blackstone packaging in one of the USPS Express mail envelopes for their flat rate and the lab has it in 3 days.

CJ JAX

[ulflyer]

Doc, I have been using USPS for my Blackstone samples for a few years with no problems. I put the Blackstone packaging in one of the USPS Express mail envelopes for their flat rate and the lab has it in 3 days.

CJ JAX

Ditto. I use a brown puffy envelope and send it Priority so I have a tracking number.

[Roadster Renovations]

Finally got the results back and they are cautioning me on the BRP oil. Since this oil only had 4,000 miles on it and had dropped down into a 20 weight, if nothing else I will not be changing at 9,300 miles. Here are the reports and a copy of Bob the oil guys chart (thanks, Bob!)
97626
97627





Not sure what I am going to do. Thinking about Mobil 1 full syn for motorcycles, but if there is any chance of an issue with the clutch on the SE6, I won't. All I know is that this oil has halved it's viscosity in 4,000 miles. I will send in the new sample when I change it next week which is BRP oil. Maybe one of you guys with more experience in this than me can give me some ideas.

[KX5062]

Thanks for posting, Doc, but I can't read your attachments. Too small for my old eyes, even with my glasses on.

Also, which oil did you use? Syn or Syn-blend?

[Roadster Renovations]

Blended 5x40. Let me re-post them and try to make them larger. (you also can hold ctrl down and hit plus to make the screen larger...at least on my browser.
Here is the chart: Wouldn't let me post in edit mode...

97628

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Finally got the results back and they are cautioning me on the BRP oil. Since this oil only had 4,000 miles on it and had dropped down into a 20 weight, if nothing else I will not be changing at 9,300 miles. Here are the reports and a copy of Bob the oil guys chart (thanks, Bob!)
97607

97608

97609

Not sure what I am going to do. Thinking about Mobil 1 full syn for motorcycles, but if there is any chance of an issue with the clutch on the SE6, I won't. All I know is that this oil has halved it's viscosity in 4,000 miles. I will send in the new sample when I change it next week which is BRP oil. Maybe one of you guys with more experience in this than me can give me some ideas.
.........Doc please HELP us all out here , when you refer to the OIL you are using could state BRP Blended ...or....BRP F SYN ......because it makes a HUGH difference ....Thanks , some of us here probably follow this Thread on a daily basis ( it's that important )............................Mike :thumbup:..........Sorry we were both typing at the same time

[Roadster Renovations]

97630
97631
97632
Biggest I can make them. Hope that's better.

[ulflyer]

Doc, I hate to tell you this, but in my experience with testing various brands, both synthetic and non-synthetic, NO 10-40 oil, much less a 5-40, will make it to 4000 without shearing down to what you see on your test.

In order to hold the viscosity to a reasonable level at 4000 miles, it takes a quart of 20-50 added when the oil is changed. This may be a bit contrary to BRP instructions, but the vast majority of big bikes on the road call for 20-50, so I began adding a quart back when I had my '11. I am now doing the same with the 1330.

My current fill is Motul 7100, a pure ester synthetic, not the highly processed dino that many U.S. companies are allowed to call "synthetic". I have another 1200 miles to go before reaching 4K on the Motul and will then test it.

Unless it turns out to be the miracle oil, which I highly doubt, I plan on using a good quality synthetic like Amsoil and changing it every 4000 and the filter every other time. This seems the most reasonable way to go for me. For this coming winter I will leave off the 20-50 and go full 10-40 as it doesn't get all that frigid here in the NC. If the mood strikes me, I may put in Rotella T6, a 5-40 synthetic, rated
Jaso MA (or is it now MA2), knowing it will get changed at 3000 or shortly thereafter.

Generally speaking, the wider the range, the faster the viscosity shears down, and 5-40 has not held up as long in big bore bikes as a 10-40 or heavier oil. Nevertheless, its a decent oil, inexpensive, readily avail at Walmart. Seems to me like a good winter oil, suitable for the short haul.

[Roadster Renovations]

Sorry for any mix up. It was 5x40 semi-synthetic BRP blended.
Uniflyer, I think you are right about replacing the filter only every other time. The drain and fill I did before the New England trip was without the filter change and I will now do the full oil change this week. I am thinking of using the same oil on this change (since I have gallon of it). The lab suggested that I send another sample to establish a wear baseline. I thought the metal PPM in the report was very good as some of that might have been from the clutch disk. I know it's filtered, but small particles might still have got through. I will tell you this, if you ran this oil 9,200 miles I doubt that it would have a 10 weight at that point. Not good for this awesome engine or it's longevity.

[PW2013STL]

Hi Doc,

Thanks for posting. I had done mine (same oil) at 6000 miles and it also came in at 20w, so it looks like it did not shear any lower from 4000 to 6000.
I should have my results on the Mobil 1 10-40w full syn back this week. This oil has 6234 miles on it and we will see if it faired any better. Stay tuned.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

:gaah:........Does anyone think BRP did or had any " SHEAR " testing done . Do they really expect the Ace engine to last until it's out of Warranty and they are off the HOOK so-to-speak ??????...........Their recommended 9300 miles between oil / filter changes appears to be way beyond what their ( BRP ) OIL can handle ..........JMHO....I am using FULL SYN Rotella and don't plan on more than 5000 at the extreme........................................Mik e :thumbup:

[ulflyer]

:gaah:........Does anyone think BRP did or had any " SHEAR " testing done . Do they really expect the Ace engine to last until it's out of Warranty and they are off the HOOK so-to-speak ??????...........Their recommended 9300 miles between oil / filter changes appears to be way beyond what their ( BRP ) OIL can handle ..........JMHO....I am using FULL SYN Rotella and don't plan on more than 5000 at the extreme........................................Mik e :thumbup:

BK, the Rotella 5-40 is a good weight for your climate, especially in the winter, but suggest you send a sample in for testing to make sure its holding up to 5K. I'm interested in that oil as well and want to see how it fares. :)

[DrewNJ]

Just like the last oil thread all of this was hashed out in, I believe the key here is to use whatever approved oil puts a smile on your face and change it a bit more often.
Personally, I have no issues with the brp blend oil. It actually has a good reputation in the jetski world where the motors are run considerably harder than in the spyder, its fairly inexpensive, easy to come by, and the kits make it easy.
However, I'm doing 3k OCI like I have done in every other motorcycle I've owned.

[PW2013STL]

I'd tend to agree.

Will add that changing from breakin oil at 2500 miles and with it the kind of notchy feel when shifting (SE6), to a new filter and fresh BRP blended that came in the kit has smoothed out the gearbox feel.

Still plan to run M1 Motorcycle Oil 10/40 after I put a bit more miles on with blended oil to ensure a good breakin and seating of the rings. Never had plans to go the distance per the manual. Probably will be a 5000 mile max distance, but when I see how the M1 turned out with PW2013 tests / analysis, I may adjust the miles a bit.

For several reasons, time has been tough to find this year in regards to Spyder riding.

PK

PK,

I will try posting the full results of the Mobil 1 test tomorrow, but it did shear down from 40w to just above 30w after 6200 miles?
I hope I can get the full results to post as I was not able with the first one so stay tuned.

Les

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

PK,

I will try posting the full results of the Mobil 1 test tomorrow, but it did shear down from 40w to just above 30w after 6200 miles?
I hope I can get the full results to post as I was not able with the first one so stay tuned.

Les:yes::yes::yes:.................I think this is the best results of the OIL's tested that I've heard of so far :thumbup::thumbup:.............Mike

[Roadster Renovations]

I am getting ready to send off my second oil change sample (with filter change this time) sometime next week. Think I will use the same lab, but put the bottle into an envelope to see if it gets there quicker. This sample of BRP Blended 5x40 will have about 6,000 miles on it. Interested to see if that 20 weight sheer will hold up.
As Mike said, I am wondering if the 9300 mile interval is good enough to keep the engine intact through the warranty period, then quickly wear out shortly thereafter. it could also apply with the SE6 as I would think that the viscosity of the oil is critical for the wet clutch operation. In the automobile industry this is something I am seeing more and more. Consumerism. Planned wearout of parts. Quality seems to be less and less. Wheel bearings using China steel that they only warranty for 1 year.
Our best bet of getting the most out of our Roadsters is to keep each other informed so that we can figure out the best maintenance schedule and oil to use. I plan on putting 100K on my RTS, if possible, and them may still keep it to make parts runs in town. Of course, that will be several years down the road.