Nitrogen

[Winse]

Should I use Nitrogen in My 2014 RT tires ?.
Thanks.
Winse:opps:

[Doktor]

I've heard both sides of that argument, and, in reality, you are doing that already, as most of our air is nitrogen anyhow. Now I know there are proponents that say it makes a difference, but, I finished chemistry right at 50 years ago, but I think it is something like 70-80% of our atmosphere so unless you compressor selectively removes it, you are, already, my numbers are liable to be off, but I'm not sure it is worth the extra $$$'s. jmo


Doc

[TexAmRider]

Should I use Nitrogen in My 2014 RT tires ?.
Thanks.
Winse:opps:

Nitrogen is slightly heavier than air, so you get extra weight:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:. Seriously nitrogen doesn't have the temperature expansion or contraction as much as air does and the claim is it doesn't leak out as fast as air does. Supposedly the tires run cooler to, thats partly why the race car drivers use it. I don't know if its worth the extra money to use, when most do a periodic check of their tire pressures and add air as needed. My 2 cents. I wonder if it will stay in my rear shock longer. :joke:

[Fat Crip]

Yes air is just over 80% nitrogen, but I expect the argument goes something like, yeah, 80% nitrogen, 18% corrosive oxygen and 2% God knows what, but certainly including water vapour! Would you put 80% petrol in your tank? Personally, I'm not convinced, but my local Kwik-Fit puts in Nitrogen and then I go and top up with good old-fashioned Scottish country air!

[Dan McNally]

Nitrogen is a larger molecule than oxygen, and, as a result, does not migrate as readily through your tires. The oxygen molecules in your tires pass through the rubber tires, albeit, very slowly. With 100% nitrogen, the tire pressure stays more consistent. Also, with regard to expansion and contraction from heat, a lot of that is caused by the moisture in the compressed air . . . an air compressor does not dry the air when it compresses it. Nitrogen, for tires, does not come from a compressor. It is obtained from liquid nitrogen, and, as a result, is very dry. Nitrogen is also inert, as opposed to oxygen, so is better for your tires . . . here is a good link: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/Notes_From_The_Road/Nitrogen_for_Tires.aspx

[Silvervette05]

I have it in my tires, I do not think it makes a difference, imo :thumbup:

[Dan_Ashley]

Should I use Nitrogen in My 2014 RT tires ?.
Thanks.
Winse:opps:
Only if you change it every 5,000 miles.

why?

for the same reason you buy it in the first place...to keep the supplier employed.

[Mets79ST2013]

Should I use Nitrogen in My 2014 RT tires ?.
Thanks.
Winse:opps:

I use it in my truck and wife's car, and I do like it.

[Bob Ledford]

Putting all the scientific chemistry mambo jambo stuff aside. The primary reason racers use nitrogen is PORTABILITY. One tank should last them a whole weekend so they don't have to pack extra extension cords for a generator and a compressor. All they have to do is chain the cylinder to a tool box or a safe pole, attach their regulator. Then their distribution manifold ans set the pressure they want for the air operated tool

[StanProff]

Air is 78.09 % nitrogen to begin with. Oxygen makes up 20.95 that's totals 99.04, the rest is a little argon and some other gas of some sort.
The reason tires run a little more constant pressure with Nitrogen is that there is little or no moisture in nitrogen if the supply system is purged correctly. The moisture is where the majority of pressure fluctuation comes from, moisture is a non condensible so the pressure increases when it gets hot. With all this being said, I wouldn't pay for it. My car had it from the beginning and I have always simply topped off with Air if needed. I've never seen any difference in the tire performace, ride or anything else. We have almost 80% nitrogen for free anyway.

[Winse]

I've heard both sides of that argument, and, in reality, you are doing that already, as most of our air is nitrogen anyhow. Now I know there are proponents that say it makes a difference, but, I finished chemistry right at 50 years ago, but I think it is something like 70-80% of our atmosphere so unless you compressor selectively removes it, you are, already, my numbers are liable to be off, but I'm not sure it is worth the extra $$$'s. jmo


Doc


Thank you.

[Winse]

Yes air is just over 80% nitrogen, but I expect the argument goes something like, yeah, 80% nitrogen, 18% corrosive oxygen and 2% God knows what, but certainly including water vapour! Would you put 80% petrol in your tank? Personally, I'm not convinced, but my local Kwik-Fit puts in Nitrogen and then I go and top up with good old-fashioned Scottish country air!


Thank you.

[Magdave]

Nitrogen is a larger molecule than oxygen, and, as a result, does not migrate as readily through your tires. The oxygen molecules in your tires pass through the rubber tires, albeit, very slowly. With 100% nitrogen, the tire pressure stays more consistent. Also, with regard to expansion and contraction from heat, a lot of that is caused by the moisture in the compressed air . . . an air compressor does not dry the air when it compresses it. Nitrogen, for tires, does not come from a compressor. It is obtained from liquid nitrogen, and, as a result, is very dry. Nitrogen is also inert, as opposed to oxygen, which is better for your tires . . . here is a good link: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/Notes_From_The_Road/Nitrogen_for_Tires.aspx

:firstplace: You got that right I always used it in my corvettes and never had to add air. :thumbup:

[Chupaca]

those who say not worth it. Until they offer it at the filling station it's more trouble than it's worth. Our tires are much smaller and we don't heat them up like racers do. We will not be looking for tire shops that have it when we need to add a lb or two of air. Jmo...:thumbup::ohyea:

[revjvegas]

It's 'free' at Costco if you're a member.

Just say'n.

[Magdave]

those who say not worth it. Until they offer it at the filling station it's more trouble than it's worth. Our tires are much smaller and we don't heat them up like racers do. We will not be looking for tire shops that have it when we need to add a lb or two of air. Jmo...:thumbup::ohyea:

But you won't need to that is the big benefit it holds steady or at least it did for me all year round. No more adding and checking.

[bluestratos]

I have done research on this subject and while there are certain advantages there is no empirical evidence to prove it is worth the money. With or with out nitrogen you still need to check your tire pressure regularly and if you have every watched them put a tire on you will see they use a lot of soap and water so even after the nitrogen purge moisture is still in there. I would be the first guy to use it if there were tangible results from doing so.

[Magdave]

I have done research on this subject and while there are certain advantages there is no empirical evidence to prove it is worth the money. With or with out nitrogen you still need to check your tire pressure regularly and if you have every watched them put a tire on you will see they use a lot of soap and water so even after the nitrogen purge moisture is still in there. I would be the first guy to use it if there were tangible results from doing so.

All I can say is on my Vette there was a 3 lb difference cold to hot tire with N and 6lb with air. It was over a year before I had to add any air to the tires too held same air pressure in hot or cold weather. Using N may help with ballooning too. In a pinch a little squirt of air is not going to make the N go bad either.:dontknow:

[Highwayman2013]

Yes air is just over 80% nitrogen, but I expect the argument goes something like, yeah, 80% nitrogen, 18% corrosive oxygen and 2% God knows what, but certainly including water vapour! Would you put 80% petrol in your tank? Personally, I'm not convinced, but my local Kwik-Fit puts in Nitrogen and then I go and top up with good old-fashioned Scottish country air!Some people run 15% petrol in their tanks. E85

[Dan_Ashley]

Some people run 15% petrol in their tanks. E85
...and other people run .07 alcohol in their bodies...doesn't make it an optimum use of alcohol whether it is in the gas or inside the body...

[bscrive]

Unless you have two valves on your rim, one to put the nitrogen in and one to push the air out, you will never get any significant amount of nitrogen in the tires to make a difference. Nitrogen is a scam. :gaah: I bet that if you look at rims on a race car, that truly runs nitrogen in their tires, it has two valves. Anyone have pictures of a race car rim that runs nitrogen??

[ChasCS]

Let all the stale air out first, and then fill it with nitrogen.
I have done mine at Tire Warehouse, and having friends who work there, get mine free. ;-)
Keeps them at the same general pressure, hot or cold.

Chas

[Magdave]

Unless you have two valves on your rim, one to put the nitrogen in and one to push the air out, you will never get any significant amount of nitrogen in the tires to make a difference. Nitrogen is a scam. :gaah: I bet that if you look at rims on a race car, that truly runs nitrogen in their tires, it has two valves. Anyone have pictures of a race car rim that runs nitrogen??

Not true. As stated above if you deflate and fill it will hold a steady (+-1-2psi) pressure year round . It simply does not expand or contract like air does due to lack of H2O and O2. I used it in my Corvette and never had to add air for over 2 yrs. Nitrogen molecules are larger and do not bleed though the rubber.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

78.1% of our air is nitrogen, for nitrogen to be effective for tire use you require minimum of 95.5% preferably 98.75% or higher. I put nitrogen in my tires yesterday.
nitrogen is a dry inert gas with molecules ~ 3 time the size of oxygen so it should seep out of the rim/tire at a much slower pace, since it does not contain moisture it will not expand or contract like air does & keeps a more stable pressure at all times. i have been doing nitrogen at my shop for over 10 years & recommend it for high performance vehicles, motor cycles, any chrome plated wheel & any wheel that has tpms. being a dry gas it will not damage the tpms pin which is sensitive to galvanic fusing or chrome plating the way oxygen can.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Unless you have two valves on your rim, one to put the nitrogen in and one to push the air out, you will never get any significant amount of nitrogen in the tires to make a difference. Nitrogen is a scam. :gaah: I bet that if you look at rims on a race car, that truly runs nitrogen in their tires, it has two valves. Anyone have pictures of a race car rim that runs nitrogen??

2 valves are never needed to fill a tire with nitrogen. Many aftermarket wheels today are made with 2 valve holes, 1 for regular valve the other for tpms. when nitrogen system inflate your tires the computer will have your tire purged twice & then finally filled the third time as to keep the purity up.
if you know any airline pilots or military pilots ask them & they will tell you the importance of nitrogen.

[Dan_Ashley]

78.1% of our air is nitrogen, for nitrogen to be effective for tire use you require minimum of 95.5% preferably 98.75% or higher. I put nitrogen in my tires yesterday.
nitrogen is a dry inert gas with molecules ~ 3 time the size of oxygen so it should seep out of the rim/tire at a much slower pace, since it does not contain moisture it will not expand or contract like air does & keeps a more stable pressure at all times. i have been doing nitrogen at my shop for over 10 years & recommend it for high performance vehicles, motor cycles, any chrome plated wheel & any wheel that has tpms. being a dry gas it will not damage the tpms pin which is sensitive to galvanic fusing or chrome plating the way oxygen can.
Nitrogen is not inert. It is compounded with other elements to create ammonia, super glue, and a raft of other products. As N2 (Pure nitrogen) each nitrogen atom is very strongly bonded with the other atom making up N2. As a result, it is generally not considered to be highly reactive. It does interact with other chemicals to naked nitrogen hydroxide though. The issue of dry nitrogen vs nitrogen gas with dissolved water vapor is important. But using it in general purpose vehicles (cars, trucks, motorcycles) provides nothing but psychological comfort.

[PMK]

Cool topic. First off, We run compressed air in our machine.

Many varied opinions on why to run N2, most common reason not run N2 is money.

Consistency is a big reason to run N2. Racers, need predictable and repeatable settings. Compressed air could work but it varies from each time a tire is serviced and will give a different result on the track. Often moisture is the culprit. If racers had a better choice, they would likely use it.

Never measured a N2 Molecule, but word is they are larger. If you run tube type tires, this is a big factor, less important on the modern tubless tire but they will not bleed down as quickly. Therefore tire pressures remain up longer.

As for TPSM, I learned something with that, and honestly it is certainly a viable reason.

The post that mention how to purge the air, I agree, however we use two partial fills, and then a final fill.

I enjoy the comments about why aircraft run N2 in tires. We run N2 for a number of reasons, not one sole reason.

First, many of the tires are inflated to pressures not easily attained by the typical air compressor. So it is far easier for me to service a tire with N2 bottles. FWIW, when we do this maintenance task, for safety, we do not get positioned anywhere except facing the tread. This way if the flange fails, and they do, the metal fragments will fly away from you (hopefully).

Second, the brakes on most aircraft are able to absorb a lot of heat. The heavier aircraft from corporate jets and up have fuse plugs. These plugs by design will release the tire pressure at a given temp. The idea is that if the fuse plug releases, the temp may be worthy of a fire or tire explosion. N2 will not add to the combustion as the gas is released. his reduced fire hazard is also good for racers.

Third, like the TPSM already mentioned having corrosion concerns, aircraft wheels are often made from either certain alloys of cast aluminum or magnesium. With the heat and corrosive dust from the carbon or metal brakes the wheels tend to see abuse. We make all attempts to control corrosion as the pits could become stress concentrations and cause cracks, either in the tie bolt holes or flange radius.

Forth, we do not often get too worked up about pressure loss as the tires are checked often. We do deal with huge temperature shifts from say leaving a southern runaway with asphalt temps near 150f, enduring a flight at -40f and then landing on a snow covered runway. The N2 helps in these large temp changes.

Also, we use N2 to service pretty much all the accumulators and blowdown bottles. Often for similar reasons.

In smaller aircraft such as single engine piston types and often in twin engine piston aircraft, the smaller shops will use compressed air. Not all but many do this. Often, these aircraft have inner tubes, and it does make a difference in how quickly the pressure drops.

Is N2 worth it in a Spyder... A lot depends on how readily available it is and the cost. Myself I have N2 bottle in the garage for rebuilding shocks, yet I still grab the air hose and gauge and fill the three tires with compressed air. I'm just being lazy.

Cool topic.

PK