Posting of Purchase Prices is often Meanigless and Counter Productive

[SpydeeMaybee]

Meaningless because of so many variables. Buyers misrepresent what they bought or what they paid for it. "Out thr Door" may include tax, license and registration paid at the dealer in some states, but not allowed in others. Did the Buyer pay cash? If not did his "price" include loan fees, finance rates, administrative fees, etc. How does a person reading these numbers on the internet make much meaningful sense out of it?

Counter Productive because what sometimes happens is a Buyer is excited about the "deal" he got and can't wait to hit the internet tell everyone. Not only the price, but the Dealer name, salesman and sometimes even a paragraph on how artful he was with the negotiation. This creates a problem for the Dealer of course since other buyers want to know why they didn't get the same deal. In addition, other Dealers complain to the Manufacturer that he is pricing too aggressively and demand he be reined in.

Dealers, like Buyers, need to be free to run their business as they see fit as long as they don't unfairly treat their customers or damage their manufacture's reputation. Customers likewise need to research enough to know the local market and what reasonable prices are. Then they can choose to negotiate aggressively or not at all. But posting "deals" with Dealer names is a sure way to stifle competition in my opinion. Maybe that's the way today's America wants it.

[Bob Denman]

And the salient point is? :dontknow:

Do you think that any of this is gonna stop? :D

[cuznjohn]

i don't really see a problem with a out the door price, meaning taxes and all. i will ask a person in pvt if they don't say what it costs on their post but i would like to know just how good or bad i did with my deal

[ARtraveler]

Most of the price information that I see on SL has to do with an answer to someone's question: Good price, bad price, ballpark price?

I don't think that throwing prices around occasionally is going to interfere with anyone's business plan. It may keep some dealers from being a bit less mercenary to the customers though.

When people talk prices it surely does not bother me. Just my .02 :thumbup:

[SpydeeMaybee]

And the salient point is? :dontknow:

Do you think that any of this is gonna stop? :D
The salient point is we shoot ourselves in the foot when we pinpoint a dealer with very aggressive pricing. The more he gets singled out, the sooner it will stop. I have no problem posting prices if the dealership is not identified, but often wonder how accurate the number is.

Yes I do think mentioning this will at least cause some to stop and think before jumping on the band wagon.

[NetJunkie]

Sounds like OP works for a dealer. Pricing information helps as long as people understand what they are seeing. Unless it's in the same state it doesn't matter much unless you understand the tax differences. But within the same state it can be VERY helpful. Information is never a bad thing.

[NetJunkie]

The salient point is we shoot ourselves in the foot when we pinpoint a dealer with very aggressive pricing. The more he gets singled out, the sooner it will stop. I have no problem posting prices if the dealership is not identified, but often wonder how accurate the number is.

Yes I do think mentioning this will at least cause some to stop and think before jumping on the band wagon.

It's a free market. That dealer can stop any time they want. They don't have to give everyone the same price, even if it's publicly discussed. When buying any vehicle I've never signed a non-disclosure agreement when it comes to the price.

This forum is REALLY odd. I've never seen people complain about price discussions on any of the other many vehicle forums I've ever been on. Same goes for a few other things on here... Most forums welcome this type of discussion. And many vendors/dealers post their best prices. Not sure why Spyders are some different breed.

[Bob Denman]

Of course there is the “Why lookee here losers, I got twice what you did for half as much”.

... of course they didn’t, but then if they can’t feel smugly superior on the internet where can they?

:agree: Folks always love the opportunity to dance around somebody else's misery... :D

[ARtraveler]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Rattigan_Roger http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=811651#post811651) Of course there is the “Why lookee here losers, I got twice what you did for half as much”.

... of course they didn’t, but then if they can’t feel smugly superior on the internet where can they?

Bob D.:
":agree: Folks always love the opportunity to dance around somebody else's misery... :D "

We sometimes hear back from these same people about how lousy the dealer services the machine. :thumbup:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Meaningless because of so many variables. Buyers misrepresent what they bought or what they paid for it. "Out thr Door" may include tax, license and registration paid at the dealer in some states, but not allowed in others. Did the Buyer pay cash? If not did his "price" include loan fees, finance rates, administrative fees, etc. How does a person reading these numbers on the internet make much meaningful sense out of it?

Counter Productive because what sometimes happens is a Buyer is excited about the "deal" he got and can't wait to hit the internet tell everyone. Not only the price, but the Dealer name, salesman and sometimes even a paragraph on how artful he was with the negotiation. This creates a problem for the Dealer of course since other buyers want to know why they didn't get the same deal. In addition, other Dealers complain to the Manufacturer that he is pricing too aggressively and demand he be reined in.

Dealers, like Buyers, need to be free to run their business as they see fit as long as they don't unfairly treat their customers or damage their manufacture's reputation. Customers likewise need to research enough to know the local market and what reasonable prices are. Then they can choose to negotiate aggressively or not at all. But posting "deals" with Dealer names is a sure way to stifle competition in my opinion. Maybe that's the way today's America wants it.

Yes by all means necessary........lets remove the FREE SPEECH thing from the Constitution.............and replace it with new rules created by ................................wait for it .....................SpydeeMaybee ..( who I don't think actually owns a Spyder ......yet ?????????).:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflb lack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:: roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflbl ack:

[Bob Denman]

Folks are always going to want ot talk about the smokin' HOT deal that only they were able to get...
how they beat the dealer down to $3756.07 below invoice... THEN made his poor Wife cook a Turkey dinner, AND deliver it, and the bike to them...
Can't be helped; won't be stopped...
The one thing that we try to discourage here; is unbridled bashing of a dealership by name...
Yeah; complaints can be perfectly valid; but "Piling it on", in a venue where the dealer may not be able to defend themselves seems kind of mean...
Mentining a name and a problem has always been okay... Harping on it; adding personal insults; questioning someboy's lineage... these things go beyond useful... :shocked:
After all; a problem with a dealer won't be solved in here anyway...

Pricing? Fair game!
and it's on! :2thumbs:

[Tango]

Sorry but I have to disagree with the OP! :yikes: There is nothing wrong with someone posting what they paid for their vehicle! It helps to keep the dealers in line. Not that they would ever over charge anyone. NOT! It's a free market system. What I post may help some other buyer get a better deal! :firstplace: Tom :trike:

[Dan_Ashley]

The salient point is we shoot ourselves in the foot when we pinpoint a dealer with very aggressive pricing. The more he gets singled out, the sooner it will stop. I have no problem posting prices if the dealership is not identified, but often wonder how accurate the number is.

Yes I do think mentioning this will at least cause some to stop and think before jumping on the band wagon.
I wonder what Sam Walton's reaction would be...

[Vrooom]

It's a free market. That dealer can stop any time they want. They don't have to give everyone the same price, even if it's publicly discussed. When buying any vehicle I've never signed a non-disclosure agreement when it comes to the price.

This forum is REALLY odd. I've never seen people complain about price discussions on any of the other many vehicle forums I've ever been on. Same goes for a few other things on here... Most forums welcome this type of discussion. And many vendors/dealers post their best prices. Not sure why Spyders are some different breed.

I agree with you. I've noticed the same. Me thinks many frequent posters here identify closely with the business world in their own professional lives and dislike seeing a retailer trashed. These vehicles aren't cheap and they appeal to an above average income, maybe more fiscally conservative base. Also, many active posters may be selling a spyder related item or service themselves? It is an interesting dynamic.

[zavalza]

So we must respect and honor dealers who are actively trying to game us to make a profit by not disclosing their terms, even when by doing so we can bring them more revenue because of higher volume even if with a smaller margin.

To me it sounds more of a "I do not want to brag about getting a nice deal because of my relation with the dealer which I may lose if everybody knows he can get to those levels" type of rule.

It is hard for me to fathom a forum of consumers who do not desire to share this information to (as the unified group they claim to be) help the group get larger by making the product more accessible.

I might be sadly mistaken as I have been several times but that is MHO

[Chupaca]

The best deal your going to get is the deal you got. There is only two ways to sell, a few for a lot or many for less. In the end it is up to you to find the deal. Now honest folks throwing out what they paid gives you a reference number you need to gather the particulars..where when etc. Even the Kelly Blue book and NADA ask you what state or zip code when they quote their suggested pricing. There will always be those that paid more than you did and those that paid less thats the way it is....

[SpydeeMaybee]

I'll take one last shot at this because to me, posting prices can be less advantageous for the consumer. Some would argue it keeps dealers price competitive. I would say it more likely keeps them price consistent. Is it more desirable to have all dealers in an area charging roughly the same price at a higher profit margin or would it be better (for the consumer) if price negotiations were left between the dealer and customer in private. The answer may depend on how you prefer to shop.

Consider this:
A dealer decides it makes sense to offer a customer a "real deal", meaning close to or even below his cost. How likely is he to do this if he suspects there's a chance it will be all over the internet the next day?

I have no problem helping people discover which dealers are fair, provide good after sale service and are price competitive, but I feel there are better ways to do that than posting sale prices which are quite often ambiguous, incomplete and seldom present a meaningful perspective.

[zavalza]

Again, is up to the dealer to prefer big margin over low volume focused only on sale value, versus low margin and high volume with an opportunity to make more money for after sale service/parts and a recurrent customer down the line.

Is up to consumers to decide if they want to help others to identify such business models.

Flipping your argument, a low margin/higher volume would love the free publicity coming from somebody boasting about how "great" their deal was.

And you are in a forum to share something, why wouldn't you want to share this piece if not because you don't want to ruin your own chances of getting the best deal for yourself.

I thought this was a group, a community to share experiences. Let the dealers decide how to run their business and help your fellow members should be a key part of that experience.

[Bob Denman]

I'll take one last shot at this because to me, posting prices can be less advantageous for the consumer. Some would argue it keeps dealers price competitive. I would say it more likely keeps them price consistent. Is it more desirable to have all dealers in an area charging roughly the same price at a higher profit margin or would it be better (for the consumer) if price negotiations were left between the dealer and customer in private. The answer may depend on how you prefer to shop.

Consider this:
A dealer decides it makes sense to offer a customer a "real deal", meaning close to or even below his cost. How likely is he to do this if he suspects there's a chance it will be all over the internet the next day?

I have no problem helping people discover which dealers are fair, provide good after sale service and are price competitive, but I feel there are better ways to do that than posting sale prices which are quite often ambiguous, incomplete and seldom present a meaningful perspective.

If a dealer is willing to let a sale go out the door; rather than close the deal... that's his choice.
The Sale is probably the least important part of the expeiience... It's the SERVICE that'll keep you coming back for more! :thumbup:

We also shouldn't forget that the dealers AREN'T in business to give us the "Best Deal" (Whatever that it may be...). They're in business to feed thair families, and provide jobs. They're not doing this for thier health, and I don't begrudge them their profits! :thumbup:

[mrfats]

When I bought my Spyder or when I buy a vehicle I stop looking at other prices or deals others get. Just like when I buy airline tickets...you purchase when you see the price you can afford! Then I look no more...

[Bob Denman]

...A wise course of action... :2thumbs:
The "Woulda, shoulda, couldas", can eat you up! :shocked:

[Tango]

...A wise course of action... :2thumbs:
The "Woulda, shoulda, couldas", can eat you up! :shocked:



:agree::2thumbs:

[bluestratos]

Every one is entitled to their opinion in the USA, I don't agree with the statement but then that is my opinion, lol. Some people are not hagglers so having an idea what average selling prices are can be a great assistance in determining which dealer to buy from. In my case I received a fair trade value and paid full price for the bike but it all comes out in the wash. I could have cut the price another $500 if I went 70 miles further south but I like my local dealer, their service. That being said I am sure I could have haggled to get the 500 but I chose not to. They have overhead to maintain and if we lose this dealer we have to driver over 80 miles to get to the next one.

[Bob Denman]

Their is always value to be found in keeping a good local dealer in business... :clap:

[Tango]

Their is always value to be found in keeping a good local dealer in business... :clap:

You got that right! :thumbup: Tom :trike:

[Magdave]

My point of view is this. At the end of the 2013 season Dealers were selling the same bike I paid $24k 4 mo. earlier ( and I got $1500 off) for at a price of $18-19k. Did they make a profit? You betcha they would go out of business if they did not. That selling price was 25%+ off MSRP ( which is RECOMMENDED price) I do not buy into the fire sale reasoning. If BRP is marking up the MSRP over 25% that is price gouging plain and simple. Usual profit margin for most retail items is 10-15%. So what is the REAL manufacturing cost of a Spyder? 50-70% of MSRP? We will never know but they sure did make a lot of money last year after they went public on the stock exchange. Unless a dealer is prohibited from selling below MSRP any deal mentioned is fair game for posting here and is helping the dealer who is not gouging vs those that are IMHO. It is also help us who have dealt with the constant issues and found fixes for BRP to use for free and we deserve a price break.

[Dan_Ashley]

...I would say it more likely keeps them price consistent....Ever hear of the kinked demand curve? Competitive and somewhat consistent are very closely related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinked_demand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pricing

[Vrooom]

There are no absolutes, but in most cases information benefits the consumer. Consumers union has been around a long time with that premise. Get a good review and demand increases, production increases and prices often lower as more retailers enter the market for a share of the market. Then again, start having a product like the 2013 rt get dissed on line and watch the prices fall as dealers unload those units, even at a loss, to make room for the new improved savior Spyder-2014 rt.
Posting info on line allows the consumer to be armed and ready for vehicle negotiation. The salesperson is the pro and we buyers need all the ammo we can muster to help level the playing field. Just my take on subj.

[pellcitypete]

I agree with you. I've noticed the same. Me thinks many frequent posters here identify closely with the business world in their own professional lives and dislike seeing a retailer trashed. These vehicles aren't cheap and they appeal to an above average income, maybe more fiscally conservative base. Also, many active posters may be selling a spyder related item or service themselves? It is an interesting dynamic.

I think I must of made a large mistake when I bought L'ILL RED. My income is well below average. But when the Misses saw L'ILL RED she said that is the one! So if ya'll rich folks have to much money you can send it my way! :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::thumbup: My name is PELLCITYPETE an I approve of this Message :roflblack::roflblack: