Summer is back - yes boiling gas again :(

[finless]

Hi all, I am just going to state my experiences and the gas smell problem from my perspective.
This might be a little long winded but I am just telling you what I see as a owner since June 2013.

My Spyder is a 2011 RTS SM5 (NOT a SE5). I bought it used with 450 miles on it. The 600 mile service was done by a dealer and my 4600 mile service was done by me. I really have had no problems with it and am over all damn happy with it! Sometimes I wonder about expectations of something vs truth.

I think some people maybe more tolerant to the right foot heat issue than others. I am NOT saying your Spyder doesn't have a problem. Only that I think I am more tolerant of it having ridden hot ass bikes during the late 70's. Or maybe it is just me. I don't know.

Look folks, I don't pretend to know all situations. Nor do I pretend to know what's causing all issues and these could be variables! One thing for sure, some report no issues and others do. All I can add is my experiences. I do not want to take ANYTHING from ANYONE that is not happy. But I will have some commentary in this post. It might offend some.

Anyway onto this story and conclusions I have so far.

My History:
As I said above I bought my used RTS June of last year. Pretty much the start of the summer. Now, because of a health reason (Sciatica) I really did not ride it that much for the first 3 months or so. But I did ride it in some pretty hot weather out here and got stuck in bumper to bumper traffic. I use my Spyder for commuting 35 miles each way to work and many times I get caught in bumper to bumper traffic. I have posts on here explaining these stories before. I am not going to go looking for them now.

Bottom line a few days last summer I did get boiling gas and had a GAS STINK from the canister getting gas in it. Or maybe it just was over loaded with fumes. Not sure. But my Spyder stunk of gas for a couple of days then it cleared up. I will be 100% honest the boiling gas tank did not scare me at the time! I had a Honda 750 four that did that to me before. But it did not have the emission crap on it like this bike does.

Anyway, I did experience the "dragons mouth" and the boiling gas with a stinky garage. But to be honest here.... I passed it off after reading about these problem even BEFORE buying a Spyder! Maybe because I read this and made the decision to go ahead and buy one, my expectations were nothing more or less! Especially when the gas smell went away and even on some hot days I did not experience any issues.....

Again I want to say... I AM TOTALLY HAPPY with my Spyder!


Today and my experiences:
So yesterday was one of the hottest days this year and possibly hotter than any day I rode last year! Again I was riding home from work. I did get caught is some traffic but nothing bad. Now, so you know when we get Santa Ana winds here in OC it's basically just like the desert! Dry hot air that takes our temps close to 100 or higher!

Now I could tell my Spyder was running fine but I also could tell it was noticing the temps. My right foot was hot but not so much I could not handle it. I have to say, even on the freeway going at 50 MPH the freakin fan would turn on and THATS when you noticed the hotter right foot! Again this is not a complaint more of a annoyance. However I am pretty in tune with my Spyder and how it sounds, feels, etc. I could tell the oil was thinner and the valves were noisier. That's understood in high temps. Needless to say no issue other than it just was freakin hot!

Commentary: My Spyder likes it cooler! It also likes to just RUN! It does not like getting in traffic. I don't know how else to explain this other than I can just tell. One thing that does happen is when the cluster temp is 110 or so, I have a hard time finding neutral. Also the engine clacking noises are just louder. It's just something if your into machines, you just notice things like this. As a Xerox repair man in my early days, I could just "hear" when something was not right or not "running it's best". Again I just do not know how to explain my commentary here other than that....

Then I get home from this commute and pulled into the garage and HOLY COW! GAS smell at a very high level! I had less than 1/2 a tank but more than 1/3rd. It was pretty bad. I had no gas dripping on the floor just that it was giving off a gas smell.
Once again like last year, I could here the tank bubbling! I opened the seat and before unscrewing the gas cap, I removed my gloves grounded myself to the frame. Then I removed the cap. bubble, bubble. bubble. What was good was after the pressure was released form the tank, within about 3-5 minutes the tank stopped boiling. I think had I not done that, it would have boiled longer. HOWEVER, the Spyder still was stinking up the garage of a gas smell.

So here is my thinking. Call this a commentary if you like.
This BS about over filling the tank is just that! BS! I have topped off my tank every fill up for 5000 miles! Never had an issue! So in a year the only common denominator is... HEAT and boiling gas! Well at least this has been my experience!
I think if the fumes are high enough and gas boils, it overwhelms the canister and either it stinks for days or is SHOT and needs to be replaced by too much fumes or possible gas getting in it from the boiling.

NOW.... AM I pissed off? No! Do I not like my Spyder? NO!
This will not deter me. I love my ride period! If I only have a few days of this problem, sorry... I will live with it. But I am concerned for others that don't have the same tolerance level or know what to do when this problem sticks it's ugly head up!
I do wish this would get fixed. Not the hot foot issue but the gas stink issue. BRP owes a fix on this in my opinion. This is just not right. I don't care what they have to spend on this but the high fumes after a hot ride is an ISSUE! For me SCREW the hot foot thing. Sure some find it a problem but not me. I can live with that BUT.... My opinion is this gas smell issue is far more important than dealing with heat. It really can be a fire and safety issue let alone a pollution issue that can cause cancer and who else knows what by subjecting you to gas fumes!!!!
I have to say my nose was permeated by gas stink for several hours after I got home! THAT CANT BE GOOD FOR YOU HEALTH WISE!

Commentary:
BRP needs to fix this gas stink for everyone. But I have a feeling that wont be coming. Thus it is up to me for my own HEALTH and well being to fix it myself. I am probably going to do a canisterectomy. I think I have no choice. THEN after that I have some ideas to diverting (not blocking) the dragons mouth away from the right foot. I happen to have some aerodynamic engineering experience so I will have some fun trying and testing fixes to what I call an annoyance.


NOW.... this will probably piss off a few people! But I have to tell it like I see it!
Late 2012 and into 2013 when I knew I wanted a Spyder and started looking, I came here and read and researched. I got an idea of the problems and over time understood what I was getting into. I knew I could be good to go, or wind up being unhappy! I was willing to take the risk. TODAY I don't call it a risk! In fact I know for sure there are more happy owners than pissed off ones! Well that's what I think anyway. I am pretty much a happy owner! But again, I walked into this knowing some things and had my expectations set going in. For me, I am pretty happy owner.

COMMENTARY in a BIG way!
However, I sincerely have to point out reviews! And I have to say I am pretty pissed off by people that review the Spyder that "have an agenda". Call that what you like but I am SO GLAD I went by USER experience stories explained here rather than "spokes persons" stating how GREAT things are. In my opinion people should NOT make a decision based on some video alone or someone with a BIG VOICE and highly regarded in the industry! So far my experience has been NOTHING like the hype you here from people like this! Look at the 2013 reviews! ALL GLOWING and now what do we have a year later? Most people saying the 2012 was the best year!

I am going to point out a video made in 2010. Anyone watching this now I am sure will have problems with it and the test that was done with someone highly regarded. If this was my video, I would either redo it properly or pull it! AT THE TIME when I watched this being a total NOOB to the Spyder, it made me decide the heat issues were NO LONGER A PROBLEM!

We all KNOW now... this is totally BS!

BTW, I live out in this area and several of us noticed several things!
1) The plants are green! Indication this is winter or spring! If it truly was "death valley" at the hottest time... all that would be BROWN!
2) Snow on the mountains! Yea OK.....
3) I have a VERY hard time believing Fred's temp quotes! And yes... I am calling BS... Why? Several of us live here! Been there, and know the weather! Sorry but this is lame and no proof of temps. Sorry Fred... You should have held a temp gauge up!.... It's promotional BS and nothing more.... We all know this video is totally irrelevant today!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQAlkrrcw6k


I know some of you will BEAT ON ME for this post.... I do not care sorry. I am being honest with my thoughts, opinions, and being an owner. Trust I will probably post more of my experiences as they happen. Like them or not.

In the end, I am enjoying my ride and have no plans to dump it!
I only wanted to spend the time to share my thoughts, ideas, and experiences. If some find what I say offensive.... then by all means don't read what I have to say.

Bob

[cuznjohn]

i have no problem with your post, i am waiting to see just what my bike does with the vents i put on and the update i had done last week. as they say only time will tell

[Chupaca]

you have some great points and a good grasp on the issues...:thumbup:
Pay attention to when the gas boils..most notice it when they are low on gas. I found that not waiting that long to fill on hot days avoids the problem...

[Bob Denman]

Well; The question that pops into my mind:
"What are you going to do about all of it?" :dontknow:

A very frank, and thorough review! :clap: thanks!

[finless]

i have no problem with your post, i am waiting to see just what my bike does with the vents i put on and the update i had done last week. as they say only time will tell

Hi John, I have actually been following your story even if you did not know that I have.....

Can I just add to this.

I believe the difference for me is 100F with 20% humidity!

You in 100F and 90% humidity, I am sure will make a WORLD of difference!

Based on what I know and how engines, fuel air mixtures and even how well radiators cool is highly effected by humidity. Anyone that has taken the FAA ground school learns these facts!

So my experiences in totally difference climate than yours, I can understand how much hotter the Spyder might be in your conditions!
I am not sure I would even want to ride in 100F and 90%! I might not even be able to personally deal with that forgetting any added Spyder heat.

But the point is.... this is PROBABLY a variable as to why some have issues and others do not!

Just thinking here......

Bob

[finless]

you have some great points and a good grasp on the issues...:thumbup:
Pay attention to when the gas boils..most notice it when they are low on gas. I found that not waiting that long to fill on hot days avoids the problem...

Hi Chupaca, Yes I have noticed. The times I have had it, it was below 1/2 tank. But I have not had that many days (about 5 in totally) that it happened. Needless to say, I don't feel it's right to have to worry about how full your tank is.

To be honest I am NOT worried about the boiling gas! I had bikes that did this even when leaded gas was king!
I am more wanted just the ability for the system to deal with it and not pollute me or other risks from the fumes. This is why before taking off the gas cap, I ground myself to the frame so no static spark can happen. I do this on my cars too!

Oh and we all "SHOULD" know this static spark can cause issues filling ANYTHING at the pumps! Do a youtube search for gas pump fires and it's like 90% of them are caused by static.

Again the boiling gas issue is not my concern. It's the management of the fumes that is the problem in my mind.

Bob

[cuznjohn]

Hi John, I have actually been following your story even if you did not know that I have.....

Can I just add to this.

I believe the difference for me is 100F with 20% humidity!

You in 100F and 90% humidity, I am sure will make a WORLD of difference!

Based on what I know and how engines, fuel air mixtures and even how well radiators cool is highly effected by humidity. Anyone that has taken the FAA ground school learns these facts!

So my experiences in totally difference climate than yours, I can understand how much hotter the Spyder might be in your conditions!
I am not sure I would even want to ride in 100F and 90%! I might not even be able to personally deal with that forgetting any added Spyder heat.

But the point is.... this is PROBABLY a variable as to why some have issues and others do not!

Just thinking here......

Bob

last year i stayed home on the really hot days. but we will see

[sddinnh]

I have no problem with your review and, to be honest, reviews like your's is one of the reasons that I went with the 2014 and not a leftover 2013 so I'm happy that people like you speak up. By reporting what problems you are having, you are simply stating the facts as you know them. I don't know why some 2013 units have this problem and some don't, I just know that I didn't want to risk it and it's my understanding is that the 2014's are much better in this respect, but I guess we'll find out. So far, so good, but it's been relatively cool up here in the NE so far.

[finless]

Well; The question that pops into my mind:
"What are you going to do about all of it?" :dontknow:

A very frank, and thorough review! :clap: thanks!

Bob, I think in my first post I said what I am going to do.

To me, if I want to worry about this, I am pretty sure I will have to fix it myself.

I am a corporate man myself and understand the pressures of the capitalistic system. Profit, share holders, etc is the bottom line. BRP seems to have solved the issue with the 2014. We shall see for sure in a year from now. BUT this does not help anyone else with previous years.

Spending money on previous years is a expense NO share holder will want to hear! It adds nothing to the bottom line! Sure some might say "Well it helps BRP's customer value and reputation". Trust me when I say... A CEO will say that but in the end........ I bet you a MILLION DOLLARS, no fix ever comes from them especially if it costs more than a few bucks. Prime example... the 2013 PASTE ON heat shields... Really? Sure it might reduce the RISK of a fire but is it a good customer "reputation" fix? I think it is a CYOA and reduce the legal risks and nothing more.

Sorry to sound negative about BRP but again... they are dealing with profit and share holders! It is what it is!

Bob

[finless]

PLEASE......

I know my post sounds like I am bashing on BRP and the Spyder! I am really NOT trying to do that here. I am just sharing experiences and opinions.

I LOVE MY RIDE! I have no desire to trade in for a 2014. These are fully ride-able and serviceable trikes! I love my Spyder even with the small issues I have had. Does anything NOT have some issues you buy today? I do not consider these issues "SHOW STOPPERS" for me!

So I want to be completely clear.... I am just sharing experiences!
If I find solutions to what I myself consider SMALL issues, I will share them.


Bob

[Bob Denman]

:2thumbs: I think that we understand where you're coming from... :2thumbs:
I think that I was looking for what would be considered a specific course of action; assuming that one exists. :D
Have you considered the various wrapping approaches?
Airbox and/or catalytic conberter removal?
Extra underbody airflow?

We have had a lot of owners report varying degrees of success with these measures... What are your thoughts on them? :dontknow:

[Jeriatric]

~~~~~~~~~ Hot fun in the summertime ~~~~~~~~~~

Again........

:joke: :doorag:

[finless]

:2thumbs: I think that we understand where you're coming from... :2thumbs:
I think that I was looking for what would be considered a specific course of action; assuming that one exists. :D
Have you considered the various wrapping approaches?
Airbox and/or catalytic conberter removal?
Extra underbody airflow?

We have had a lot of owners report varying degrees of success with these measures... What are your thoughts on them? :dontknow:

Yes I know, I have pretty much read everything here :)
I am one of those types.... The more info you have the better prepared you are! :2thumbs:
I have read posts dating back to before the RT existed.

I am not saying I have not missed anything but I am pretty sure I have a grasp on what others have done, what can be done, etc... What works for everyone 100% is a bit of a MYSTERY! There is NO correct answer! If you find one... I bet many will want to know it :)

My issues are not so extreme that I think I need to heat wrap (which if you read enough posts here has other ramifications!), or do other extreme mods. Other than the fume issues, I really have no major complaints! It would be a "luxury" item for me to get my right foot cooler...

In my opinion, at least for me, I just need to get rid of the fume problem. Then as an "enjoyment thing" see about a better way to get the "dragons mouth" off my right foot when it is really hot. That is the only time the "dragons mouth" bothers me... When it is really hot out! Even then, I can deal with it so it would just be a "nice to have" for me. Again... this is ME and my personal wants :)

Bob

[cjackg]

Good Luck with a Canisterectomy giving any relief. I had fumes and drips before I did it and just as many afterwards. With the Canister in place, at least the Valve is sucking up some of the gas fumes but once you remove it, they are all coming out the overflow tube!

Getting the heat off the tank and putting an end to boiling gas is about the only sure way to get this under control.

[finless]

Getting the heat off the tank and putting an end to boiling gas is about the only sure way to get this under control.

I think pretty much I agree with you!

I don't think you can get rid of the boiling gas!

But I do think we can find a way to deal with the fumes and overflow when the boiling happens.

I am not sure I know the answer but it is obviously not anything someone has come up with so far.
I have some ideas and I take those ideas from my RC airplane experience and reflow with nitro engines. It probably WONT be sanctioned by ANY IEEE org or anything like that but I have to do what I have to do... In fact I may never post it due to the risks of being sued by people that might try it and don't do it right!

The problem I might have in testing my ideas is... I don't have the issue that often! I need to live where Jerbear lives!

Bob

[ARtraveler]

I have also read your post and have to say that I agree with you and also have no problem with what you have said.

IMO: there is nothing worse than having a machine (especially one that costs as much as ours do), and having a persistent problem that keeps rearing its ugly head.

Were I in your shoes, I think its time to review whether or not you wish to keep the current machine, try to get the issues fixed, or determine its time to cut your losses, sell it, or trade it off on something else, or another Spyder.

I cannot offer you mechanical assistance. I am not mechanical, and am at the mercy of those who know a whole lot more than I do. I am sorry that I cannot solve or make this situation much better.

I am going to send a PM with a suggestion or two.

[jcthorne]

I thought your post was pretty level headed and closely resembles how I feel about my bike. Louise and I LOVE our Spyders. We would like less of the gas fumes and less heat on the right foot. Either by improvements made by me, or figured out by BRP. Like you said, the gas fumes are just not right. The right foot heat is a comfort issue.

Either way, I read every post on these subjects and hope one day the collective will find yet more improvements. Our bikes have come a long way, both from what I have done and what BRP has done. Still a ways to go. But we are keeping the bikes. We really do LOVE them and look for any excuse to ride.

[kubie]

Way to go Bob!!!! Great post Keep telling it like it is!

The problem is not just with the RT its with all models I had a 2012 RS-S and the 2013 ST-S and had, and still have, the Gas Smell. I live in Florida so its Hot here a lot more, as you all know! I also knew this going in and bought them any way! I love my STS and Ryde to work every day so I know the Feel. Im not giving up, not trading it in, and hope there is a cure some time soon!

Keep up the great posts

Kubie!

[Magdave]

:agree: 100% Bob it is a motorcycle and sitting on an engine you can expect to feel some heat. In all the years I have ridden I have never had a bike fill my garage with fumes and liquid gas on the floor like this one does. It did it today after I got stuck in a parking lot highway on the way home from the beach 5mph most of the 15 mi. ride. And I got crucified last year when I put a paper towel under the overflow tube to detect if it was indeed dripping by all the fanboys here. I am really tired of hearing BRP blame the owners for it. It DEFINATELY has nothing to do with fill ups. It has everything to do with piss poor engineering. I am really surprised NHTSA and the EPA have not looked more into this especially after the fires. I like the bike on the highway not so much in slow traffic.:dontknow:

[spyderyderjim]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for sharing your Spyder RT heat experiences.
I stopped gas boiling in tank of 2013 Spyder RT-S SE5 in summer 2013 riding in 112+deg heat.
1. A richer fuel ratio, (Len at Pitbull Powersports).
2. # 9 NGK Iridium sparkplugs (cooler running plugs); Baja Ron plug wires.
3. Wrapped both exhaust pipes.
4. Added ThermoTec heat shield blanket over top of exhaust pipe wraps.
5. Installed sticky wrap heat shield all over gas tank.
6. Cat bypass pipes installed (cat removed).
7. Removed air resonator box on left air intake (opened up air flow under left side panels).
8. Removed gas charcoal canister, extended gas tank vent hose with gas fuel filter routed up front,(opened up air flow under right side panels).
9. Installed Lava 1200 deg reflective heat shield in front & underneath Brimbo brake master cylinder.
10. Extended reflective heat shield about 6" out right side radiator exit to block heat from right foot area.
Note: gas cap temps dropped to 116 deg; gas in tank dropped to 128 deg.
I have since put ceramic heat mods on a 2011 RT; two 2013 RT's with success.
Hope this helps some RT owners.
(Jan 29th 2014 I bought a 2014 Spyder RT-S SE6;
Cat removed; 2" stainless steel exhaust bypass pipe built/installed.
I put ceramic reflective heat shield wrap on exhaust pipe to keep heat off engine cases.
The 1330 in line triple has awesome torque/power smooth shifting).
Enjoy your Spyder rydes!!!

8751587516
Jim










I think pretty much I agree with you!

I don't think you can get rid of the boiling gas!

But I do think we can find a way to deal with the fumes and overflow when the boiling happens.

I am not sure I know the answer but it is obviously not anything someone has come up with so far.
I have some ideas and I take those ideas from my RC airplane experience and reflow with nitro engines. It probably WONT be sanctioned by ANY IEEE org or anything like that but I have to do what I have to do... In fact I may never post it due to the risks of being sued by people that might try it and don't do it right!

The problem I might have in testing my ideas is... I don't have the issue that often! I need to live where Jerbear lives!

Bob

[Magdave]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for sharing your Spyder RT heat experiences.
I stopped gas boiling in tank of 2013 Spyder RT-S SE5 in summer 2013 riding in 112+deg heat.
1. A richer fuel ratio, (Len at Pitbull Powersports).
2. # 9 NGK Iridium sparkplugs (cooler running plugs); Baja Ron plug wires.
3. Wrapped both exhaust pipes.
4. Added reflective heat shield over top of exhaust pipe wraps.
5. Installed sticky wrap heat shield all over gas tank.
6. Cat bypass pipes installed (cat removed).
7. Removed air resonator box on left air intake (opened up air flow under left side panels).
8. Removed gas charcoal canister, extended gas tank vent hose with gas fuel filter routed up front,(opened up air flow under right side panels).
9. Installed Lava 1200 deg reflective heat shield in front & underneath Brimbo brake master cylinder.
10. Extended reflective heat shield about 6" out right side radiator exit to block heat from right foot area.
Note: gas cap temps dropped to 116 deg; gas in tank dropped to 128 deg.
I have since put ceramic heat mods on a 2011 RT; two 2013 RT's with success.
Hope this helps some RT owners.
(Jan 29th 2014 I bought a 2014 Spyder RT-S SE6;
Cat removed; 2" stainless steel exhaust bypass pipe built/installed.
I put ceramic reflective heat shield wrap on exhaust pipe to keep heat off engine cases.
The 1330 in line triple has awesome torque/power smooth shifting).
Enjoy your Spyder rydes!!!

8751587516
Jim

Gas boils at those temps:shocked: I am not going to spend $40k on 2 bikes to solve it when BRP should do it. Why get a '14 if you solved the issues? We have all read the possible help to cool it but it will never get cool enough with out proper ventilation in the engine bay. The jury is out on the '14s lets see what 90 to 100deg weather does to them. I bet they will boil too. The ONLY solution is double walled properly insulated tanks from the OEM along with improved venting from the OEM. It is their problem. We all have tried things that helped but never eliminated it.

[jwulf74]

My main complaints with the fumes are twofold. The first is while ryding. The second is after a ryde.

I aim to fix the first by routing the event line to the rear left side. That should keep it out of my helmet while ryding.

The second is much harder and will maybe try a few more things, but the best one so far has been filling the tank with cold gas right before going home.

Air box removal helps, canisterectomy may help as it sits so close to the engine. I may wrap the pipes, but that will be about it. Those plus the cold fresh gas I hope will take care of 95% of it. I can live with that.

[spyderyderjim]

You don't have a clue about 2014 Spyder RT's!!! I have been riding in 95-98 deg heat, & engine temp stays at 4 bars!!
NO, you are wrong; there will not be any heating/boiling gas problems on 2014 RT with the dual radiators up front, exhaust pipe under RT!!!!
I bought the 2014 Spyder RT-S SE6 because I wanted the 1330cc in-line triple motor awesome torque, smooth shifting trans.
It is really none of your business if I bought a 2014 RT, I buy what I want to ryde!! ( I have 34,000 miles on 3 Spyder RT's)
I rode all last summer in 112-116 deg Arizona hot weather 2013 RT with no gas boiling/heating problems after my heat reflective mods!!
If you want to sit on your butt, complain, & bad mouth BRP, then you reap what you sow.
This hands on info I share with all the other RT riders that want a solution to RT heat problems so they can enjoy riding all summer.
Jim







Gas boils at those temps:shocked: I am not going to spend $40k on 2 bikes to solve it when BRP should do it. Why get a '14 if you solved the issues? We have all read the possible help to cool it but it will never get cool enough with out proper ventilation in the engine bay. The jury is out on the '14s lets see what 90 to 100deg weather does to them. I bet they will boil too. The ONLY solution is double walled properly insulated tanks from the OEM along with improved venting from the OEM. It is their problem. We all have tried things that helped but never eliminated it.

[den1953]

There is nothing like a HEATED discussion to liven things up. Seriously, boiling gasoline would worry the heck out of me!!

[jcthorne]

You don't have a clue about 2014 Spyder RT's!!! I have been riding in 95-98 deg heat, & engine temp stays at 4 bars!!
NO, you are wrong; there will not be any heating/boiling gas problems on 2014 RT with the dual radiators up front, exhaust pipe under RT!!!!
I bought the 2014 Spyder RT-S SE6 because I wanted the 1330cc in-line triple motor awesome torque, smooth shifting trans.
It is really none of your business if I bought a 2014 RT, I buy what I want to ryde!! ( I have 34,000 miles on 3 Spyder RT's)
I rode all last summer in 112-116 deg Arizona hot weather 2013 RT with no gas boiling/heating problems after my heat reflective mods!!
If you want to sit on your butt, complain, & bad mouth BRP, then you reap what you sow.
This hands on info I share with all the other RT riders that want a solution to RT heat problems so they can enjoy riding all summer.
Jim

Sorry but it is not solved. I have done what you have. wrapped pipes and wrapped cat bypass. Canisterectomy with vent routed to rear, insulated tank, insulated master cylinder and removed air intake resonator. Things are MUCH better. I never have the fumes in my helmet sitting in traffic. But the garage does fill with gas fumes every day when I get home from work. 90+ deg, stop n go traffic still yields major gas fumes. Not to mention the low fuel economy from all this gas vaporizing to the air.

I am pretty much convinced that the engine bay temps will never stay below the boiling point of gas. The only solution would be to reroute the exhaust under the bike or a double wall insualted tank.

[Magdave]

You don't have a clue about 2014 Spyder RT's!!! I have been riding in 95-98 deg heat, & engine temp stays at 4 bars!!
NO, you are wrong; there will not be any heating/boiling gas problems on 2014 RT with the dual radiators up front, exhaust pipe under RT!!!!
I bought the 2014 Spyder RT-S SE6 because I wanted the 1330cc in-line triple motor awesome torque, smooth shifting trans.
It is really none of your business if I bought a 2014 RT, I buy what I want to ryde!! ( I have 34,000 miles on 3 Spyder RT's)
I rode all last summer in 112-116 deg Arizona hot weather 2013 RT with no gas boiling/heating problems after my heat reflective mods!!
If you want to sit on your butt, complain, & bad mouth BRP, then you reap what you sow.
This hands on info I share with all the other RT riders that want a solution to RT heat problems so they can enjoy riding all summer.
Jim

I guess you ain't been around here. I did all you did and more. Is it better? A little, but it still does it. Simple fact of the matter is your own referenced temp readings indicate you did not solve the gas boiling problem. Do you know what the boiling point of gas is? Now lets mention there are 2 different types of heat here , comfort and danger. Every motorcycle suffers from some type of comfort heat. Sitting over an engine heat rises etc. You can have 6 radiators but FI engines(or any for that matter) will run at 200+ deg. with a 180deg thermostat. It has to able to fire the Cat up. Nothing can be done to change that. Conventional motorcycles have more or open headroom between the engine and tank. Although sometimes they will have the same issue with the tank sitting over the 200+ deg. engine most of the time the ventilation is adequate to abate the boiling. You are delusional if you think the 2014 engine bay is any cooler than previous years. Only difference is the engine is moved forward from the tank ( for the most part) and exhaust is re routed. Both can help obviously but sitting in traffic the tank WILL heat up just like every other Spyder on the road. The 1330 does not run any cooler than the 990. I am betting by the end of the summer when '14 owners start really checking tank temps we will see they too have gas boil. As much? Probably not. enough to overwhelm the EVAP canister? That is the question.:dontknow:

[sddinnh]

You are delusional if you think the 2014 engine bay is any cooler than previous years. Only difference is the engine is moved forward from the tank ( for the most part) and exhaust is re routed. Both can help obviously but sitting in traffic the tank WILL heat up just like every other Spyder on the road. The 1330 does not run any cooler than the 990. I am betting by the end of the summer when '14 owners start really checking tank temps we will see they too have gas boil. As much? Probably not. enough to overwhelm the EVAP canister? That is the question.:dontknow:

As a 1330 owner, I somewhat agree. I think that like the two cylinder bikes, the record of the 3 cylinder bikes will be spotty as far as gas boiling goes. Some of us that live in rural areas in the cooler parts of the country may have no problems at all, while others in hotter, more congested parts of the country may have more problems. I rarely sit in traffic and it has not been over 70 here so far this year so I expect that I will not see the problem.

As an engineer, I also think that anything you do to these bikes as a fix, short of re-designing them, is going to be spotty as far as results go. If you were just over the edge of the boiling point and you removed the cat, then that might have fixed your boiling problem, where someone in a hotter area of the country needs to do more. And thats what the factory did with the 2014's, they redesigned them to move air better. If this is going to be sufficient or not is yet to be seen.

Just my humble opinion :shocked:

[Magdave]

As a 1330 owner, I somewhat agree. I think that like the two cylinder bikes, the record of the 3 cylinder bikes will be spotty as far as gas boiling goes. Some of us that live in rural areas in the cooler parts of the country may have no problems at all, while others in hotter, more congested parts of the country may have more problems. I rarely sit in traffic and it has not been over 70 here so far this year so I expect that I will not see the problem.

As an engineer, I also think that anything you do to these bikes as a fix, short of re-designing them, is going to be spotty as far as results go. If you were just over the edge of the boiling point and you removed the cat, then that might have fixed your boiling problem, where someone in a hotter area of the country needs to do more. And thats what the factory did with the 2014's, they redesigned them to move air better. If this is going to be sufficient or not is yet to be seen.

Just my humble opinion :shocked:

:agree: Time will tell but the new air movement has to do with coolant not around the engine bay. There are variables as you mentioned. If you avoid traffic lights and cruise you will (as I do ) have less if any boiling. My boiling occurs in extended stop and go traffic so I try to avoid the circumstances that cause it ( plus it makes for a better ride:thumbup:). I think even the most hard core shade tree mechanics have tried to solve this issue and some say they have done it. Maybe so for a certain set of variables but not for all IMHO.

[spyderyderjim]

Sorry but it is not solved. I have done what you have. wrapped pipes and wrapped cat bypass. Canisterectomy with vent routed to rear, insulated tank, insulated master cylinder and removed air intake resonator. Things are MUCH better. I never have the fumes in my helmet sitting in traffic. But the garage does fill with gas fumes every day when I get home from work. 90+ deg, stop n go traffic still yields major gas fumes. Not to mention the low fuel economy from all this gas vaporizing to the air.

I am pretty much convinced that the engine bay temps will never stay below the boiling point of gas. The only solution would be to reroute the exhaust under the bike or a double wall insualted tank.


http://thermotec.shptron.com/p/pipe-shield-3

This shield over top of exhaust pipes heat wrap lowered exhaust pipe heat enough to stop gas from boiling in tank on my 2013 RT.
This is what Lamont used on his 2013 Spyder ST.
I also put a heat reflecting shield in front of gas tank extended up to reflect heat away from gas tank.
The heat mods I listed solved the gas boiling problem in my 2013 RT last summer.
The exhaust pipe Thermotec heat shield is what finally stopped gas from boiling in the RT tank.
I used a laser temp gun to check gas tank temps, etc after each heat mod.
I did not have gas fume smell in garage after a ride, just a few drips once in awhile.
PMK is right, until gas stops boiling in tanks, you will get fumes out of gas tank vent hose.
Sounds like you did every heat mod.
I am just sharing what heat mods worked for my 2013 RT.
The 2013 RT-S was a blast to ride because the stiffer frame handled corner speed, at twice posted speed!!
My 2014 RT handles corners about 5 mph faster than 2013 RT.
Enjoy your rydes!
Jim

[Y Rider]

I have a 2011 RT Limited and have had the gas smell problem since I first got it. Each time after a long ride I park the Spyder outside for an hour until the bike cools off enough before putting it in the garage. This has become the normal procedure for me and has worked well to keep my garage from being overwhelmed with gas fumes. I even tried the "canisterectomy" with no success. The problem is design. If the gas tank gets too hot and the gas reaches its boiling point the vapors are forced out the vent. Only cure is to keep the gas tank cool. The only possible solution for this problem that I have seen so far is the catalytic converter bypass system Lamont is putting together. I am just waiting to see the results from others before making the purchase. I am hoping his cat bypass will be the fix for the boiling gas and even the hot right foot problems. :pray:

[jcthorne]

http://thermotec.shptron.com/p/pipe-shield-3

This shield over top of exhaust pipes heat wrap lowered exhaust pipe heat enough to stop gas from boiling in tank on my 2013 RT.
This is what Lamont used on his 2013 Spyder ST.
I also put a heat reflecting shield in front of gas tank extended up to reflect heat away from gas tank.

Jim

How many and what size of these shields did you add to your exhaust and where did you put them? What heat reflecting shield did you add to your tank? I already have the thermotec reflective adhesive backed insulation applied to the whole tank.

[jcthorne]

I have a 2011 RT Limited and have had the gas smell problem since I first got it. Each time after a long ride I park the Spyder outside for an hour until the bike cools off enough before putting it in the garage. This has become the normal procedure for me and has worked well to keep my garage from being overwhelmed with gas fumes. I even tried the "canisterectomy" with no success. The problem is design. If the gas tank gets too hot and the gas reaches its boiling point the vapors are forced out the vent. Only cure is to keep the gas tank cool. The only possible solution for this problem that I have seen so far is the catalytic converter bypass system Lamont is putting together. I am just waiting to see the results from others before making the purchase. I am hoping his cat bypass will be the fix for the boiling gas and even the hot right foot problems. :pray:

Quit waiting. Does not 'solve' the problem. I even heat wrapped the bypass. It does help but its one small part of the solution to get heat out of the bike. It will not change the heat on your foot at all as that is from the radiator.

[finless]

Isn't the exhaust pipe double walled anyway?

Bob

[spyderyderjim]

How many and what size of these shields did you add to your exhaust and where did you put them? What heat reflecting shield did you add to your tank? I already have the thermotec reflective adhesive backed insulation applied to the whole tank.

I used the 6" wide x 3 foot long on #1 exhaust pipe; and same on # 2 exhaust pipe.
I used the thermal stainless steel ties to hold it on over heat wrap pipes.
Did you notice less heat under panels after you removed all the stock air filter & installed the JT type air filter?
I noticed the adjustable side vents helped pull out some motor heat out of top vents when riding.
Jim

[spyderyderjim]

This may sound like a totally stupid idea. The heat reflection products can work, but often will heat soak over time, not all but some.

Never seen the earlier Spyders underside, but could it be viable to secure a simple ceramic tile along the exhaust, giving the air gap between the tank and exhaust system?

The other alternative could be a rolled stainless or titanium heat shield on the exhaust.

The thermotec heat blankets make sense. Keep the heat inside something hot and away from something cool.

To adhere a heat reflective material against a cool item may still allow heat transfer.

PK

You are correct the reflective heat shield will cause a little heat soak.
I am using this Lava heat shield that is not reflective like the aluminum coated; on gas tanks now.

http://paceperformance.com/i-5136838-hsp770002-heat-shield-products-lava-mat-24-x-24-with-adhesive-withstands-1200-degree-heat-direct.html

I am using a ceramic reflective heat shield armor that withstands 1200 deg heat, so is put directly on exhaust pipes; seems better than pipe wrap.
I posted photos of a 2011 RT; & my 2014 RT ceramic shield under engine area to keep heat off.

http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/automotive/exhaust-heat-shield-insulation/heatshield-armor.

The Thermotec heat blankets have 3/8" stand offs so air flow is under shield also.
Like I mentioned this heat mod is what finally stopped gas boiling in my 2013 RT last summer.
Thanks for your input.
(You just need to get some Elka shocks from Len at Pitbull, so you can rail the corners on your 2014 RT)!!

Jim

[crazyspyder]

GGGRRRR GREAT :mad: temps here are up and gas smell ...like a stinky old goat is BACK! :banghead: and the dealer tech has told me many times , ''it's normal ''. seriously thinking of getting a bottom scum feeding dweller to
get his scumbag expert opinion. I can handle bbq-ing my foot ...but.. roasting my family because my spyder caught fire in my garage is unacceptable! :shocked:
so frustrated I CAN"T TYPE ANYMORE..
2012 RT Se5

[flaggerphil]

I'm lucky in that I've never had a boiling gas problem or an excessive heat problem with my 2011. Is there heat coming from the engine? Of course, but nothing that uncomfortable and far less than I've had with air cooled Harleys in the past. About the same amount I had with my '07
Yamaha V-Star 1300T and my '08 Suzuki Boulevard M-50 (neither of which I own anymore...though my sister owns the Suzuki now).

I will sometimes have a gas smell when I come back from long, hot rides. I've had the same smell with other motorcycles I've owned over the years. I just leave the garage door open for 15 minutes or so after I get home and the problem is gone.

I'm not saying others don't have problems...I've not had them with my ride.

[spyderyderjim]

[QUOTE=PMK;804179]Jim, any photos to "show" how you accomplished installing these items?


2013 RT #2 exhaust right side Pipe Shield http://thermotec.shptron.com/p/pipe-shield-3
2013 RT sticky wrap in front & underneath brake master cylinder
2013 RT sticky wrap gas tank up to frame blocking heat from #2 cylinder
2013 RT Pipe Shield left side #1 exhaust pipe; this shield over top of wrapped exhaust pipes is what finally stopped gas boiling in tank!!
I now use Lava wrap (instead of sticky shield) because it is not as reflective & has higher heat rating of 1200 deg.
http://paceperformance.com/i-5136838-hsp770002-heat-shield-products-lava-mat-24-x-24-with-adhesive-withstands-1200-degree-heat-direct.html

The 2011 RT photo of ceramic exhaust pipe heat shield is what I now use instead of pipe wrap, on friends RT's.
http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/automotive/exhaust-heat-shield-insulation/heatshield-armor

Jim



87584875858758687583

[MikeinGA]

I have stopped the boiling gas by using exhaust wrap
http://www.motorsports247.com/product/dei/titanium-exhaust-wrap-2x50

and used heat shield on the gas tank http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004PILLZG/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The heat shield is non-flammable unlike the foam product that BRP uses that is flammable. I removed the flammable BRP product and used the Thermo-Tec product. That's IMHO.


Mike

[spyderyderjim]

SpyderJim, just to clarify, and correct me if wrong, the sequence of your photos, in in the order of the description in your post.

PK

Yes, left to right with bottom photo of 2011 ceramic heat shield I now use.
The first photo shows the backside of the pipe heat shield that goes over top of exhaust pipe wrap.
Jim

[Jeriatric]

Either all of you have too much time and money on your hands to be adding this, and removing that, or, your just a bunch of saps.

JMO

glad you got that off your chest :roflblack: :joke:

[larrymz3]

After reading all of these posts I figured I put in my 2 cents. Have mine in the shop today for the issue. Told them I want all documentation of what is being done to fix. Also in contact with BRP directly. Should it not be fixed I will go back two more times. Still not fixed, I will use the lemon law. I can't believe everyone here will spend 25K+ And still put out more of their hard earned money, and time to TRY and repair something that is apparently unrepairable. I didn't buy this thing as a project to work on, as a bunch are suggesting, I bought it to ride. I own a small company and I bought this in hopes to relieve some stress, but it is adding more. Either all of you have too much time and money on your hands to be adding this, and removing that, or, your just a bunch of saps.

JMO

Good luck with that!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[TuckMiddle]

My 2011 RT-SM5 started having horrible fumes and dripping, not just drops, about March, 2012. Never knowingly overfilled it, as it takes too long to get it above about 5.2 or so. Anyway, changed canister, filter, wrap everything, sheets of heat stuff on tank, etc, and ran the tube to the rear to get the gas away from the pipes and CAT. Still dripped, smelled and had to leave it out sometimes. Second canister and more things covered with heat sheets and BRP said "too bad, because we don't have a problem, you do." Did the canisterectomy and it all stopped.
Please don't ask me why, I don't know except that it worked and continues to work 2 years later with 45,000 miles on it. Did the CAT also to reduce heat about a year ago and it helped a little, but my thighs were red as a lobster on Monday with OAT of mid 80s and also on Tues - did 260 miles or more each day in the north GA hills/mini mountains. I'm really happy with the elimination of fumes, smell and dripping and being able to use the garage doors again to keep the critters and birds out. My tom cat took care of critters most of the time. Heat is sometimes a problem, not always , that continues to confuse me. I put the adjustable vents on, heat shield on lower right and have the adjustable windshield also, etc. BRP really needs to wake up and put a fan under the cowl or some such simple solution. The old CB 750 Hondas were hot, but nothin like the Spyder on occasion, my legs were like crab legs this week and it was barely hot out.
This is the only lingering problem the Spyder has had. Couple weeks of check eng light lately, tech nailed it yesterday and found a corroded connector to the fuel pump regulator, which shut off the fuel pump for a micro second, fluctuated the voltage for another micro second, which shut off the steering motor for several minutes at a time, but no light. Everything suggested voltage reg or magneto problem, but he noticed a past reference to PO174 on BUDS and followed that to the regulator. Bike ran like a charm the whole time. Sounds crazy, but all is well as far as I can tell, which of course, proves nothing. Time will tell.
Tuck

[2ndChildhood]

I have a 2012 RTL and had the gas smell problem from day one. A friend has a 2012 RTS and never had the gas problem. The only different that we do is I always run premium gas and he always using regular gas. Also he always tops off the tank (fills the tank to the very top). My question is does premium gas burn hotter than regular gas?


ToM

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[finless]

I have a 2012 RTL and had the gas smell problem from day one. A friend has a 2012 RTS and never had the gas problem. The only different that we do is I always run premium gas and he always using regular gas. Also he always tops off the tank (fills the tank to the very top). My question is does premium gas burn hotter than regular gas?


ToM

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I can't say for sure but have read many posts here arguing this point to the N'th level. I have tried all 3 octanes my state has. As I recall it's 87, 89, and 91. No difference that I could see in temps and I tried it for several tanks at a time. I commute to work and have the ability to try things like that over a short period of time. I have to fill up 3 times a week. Only difference I noticed between the octanes was the difference in exhaust smell when sitting at a light and the wind puts it up my nose. I prefer 91 for that issue which is not a design issue more a preference.

Bob

[Magdave]

I have a 2012 RTL and had the gas smell problem from day one. A friend has a 2012 RTS and never had the gas problem. The only different that we do is I always run premium gas and he always using regular gas. Also he always tops off the tank (fills the tank to the very top). My question is does premium gas burn hotter than regular gas?


ToM

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

The higher the octane the lower the boiling point is the only difference. Higher octane does not ignite as easily which is what causes knock...pre ignition.

[3 Wheel Addict]

The higher the octane the lower the boiling point is the only difference. Higher octane does not ignite as easily which is what causes knock...pre ignition.

prevents knock... not causes it. I think you know this but your wording reads wrong.

[flamingobabe]

well I'll jump in as a 2013 ST owner.....we have been dealing with melted parts before BRP found a fix and had the recall.....Mark fabricated a heat shield that is 3 times larger than the BRP shield...he has wrapped the exhaust, ceramic coated heat shield the tank, found wheel bearings that would not turn...gas fumes....park spyder outside for 2 hours before putting in shop....have had gas boiling and cap 176 degrees...I can go on and on.......but with the flash on the ECM gas cap was on the hot side of warm and new air flow 2014 panels the gas cap is cool to the touch....riding 400 miles in 85 to 90 degrees...we are cautiously optimistic.....hoping for the best.. .but we are entering 90++ degrees from now till October....we will see what happens....bottom line...is I try to work with BRP to get things fixed and some things are successful and others...there is no fix.....I do not accept it's normal to have all these problems...but we have learned that Mark finds solutions to more defects than BRP has....plus I had an O2 sensor blow.....and they would not replace the pipe...only the sensor....we feel that is a Band-Aid.....but clattering and shaking still happens....have used all 3 levels of gas...no difference except $$$$

[Magdave]

prevents knock... not causes it. I think you know this but your wording reads wrong.
:agree: As I wrote Pre ignition causes knock/ping and that is caused by low octane in a high compression cylinder.