Going to try to Clone a Key

[ulflyer]

Ordered one of these and will see if it clones with my '14 key as it did with my previous '11. For $7.65 +5.85 shipping, thought it worth trying.

http://www.lockpicks.com/motorcycle-clone-keys.aspx

[Bob Denman]

Good Luck! :2thumbs:
I'm trying a different approach; http://www.motorcyclekeys.com/apriliachipkey.html
let's see how we make out with this!
Let us know what happens! :D

[Michiganspyderman]

Good Luck! :2thumbs:
I'm trying a different approach; http://www.motorcyclekeys.com/apriliachipkey.html
let's see how we make out with this!
Let us know what happens! :D

Dealer told me yesterday the only option they had was a chipped version for $48. NOT HAPPENING!

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Did you tell him that you just want to copy a key; not buy stock in the dealership?? :shocked: :gaah:

[ulflyer]

Dealer told me yesterday the only option they had was a chipped version for $48. NOT HAPPENING!

If the '14 key is actually different, he may not be that far off. Blank transponder BRP keys for Pre-'14 are around $35, then cutting fee by locksmith, then another $35 for tech to clone it with Buds.

For our earlier bikes, some of us bought the blanks for $13-20 and local hardware cut and cloned for $3-5. Hoping it works for my '14, but won't know till early next week when the blank gets here.

[Bob Denman]

Keeping 'em crossed for you! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_33_15.gif

[billybovine]

If the '14 key is actually different, he may not be that far off. Blank transponder BRP keys for Pre-'14 are around $35, then cutting fee by locksmith, then another $35 for tech to clone it with Buds.

For our earlier bikes, some of us bought the blanks for $13-20 and local hardware cut and cloned for $3-5. Hoping it works for my '14, but won't know till early next week when the blank gets here.

There is enough confusion already. BUDS does not clone keys.
Cloning is making a copy of an existing key including making it transmit the same transponder code. The vehicle is not involved in cloning a key.
When you buy a BRP blank it already transmits it's own unique unchangeable transponder code. With BUDS on the 2014s you program the Spyder to accept the code that this new key transmits as good to go.

[billybovine]

This is the same link I used to order the blanks I have. Do not use this link, turns out it is the wrong blank in the first place. The link is supposed to take you to the blank ZD23RT5 which according to another web site is the correct blank. In fact if you look at the title that is where it says it will take you, but in fact the key shown is ZA-9.P
I ordered two of these thinking I was getting the 23RT5 and got the ZA-9.P instead. The ZD23RT5 is a much more expensive blank. Below is a copy of the web page, note the title has the correct blank number but in smaller print below it actually is ordering the ZA-9.P:

"Aprilia Scotters Transponder Key RW (ZD23RT5) JMA


KB-TP05ZA-9.P


Your Price: $7.65
In Stock
Item Number: KB-TP05ZA-9.P
Quantity:
Email this page to a friend"


Below is a link to the other web site that shows the correct blank
http://mysecuritypro.com/ApriliaMalagutiMBKZD23RT5MotorcycleKeyBlanks.aspx
Note the considerably higher price for this blank.

I went ahead and had one of the ZA-9.P cut to see if it would open the trunk, It Will Not, so do not waste your money.

So still don't know whether the ZD23RT5 is the correct blank for the 14 or not. But given the price of the blanks I might just get another spare from BRP

You are talking about 2 different part numbers for the same key blanks because they are from 2 different manufacturers. (Ilco and JMA) Many folks have used blanks from both manufacturers with good results for 2013 models and prior. It appears that the key has changed for 2014 models and this cloneable key blank will no longer work.

[Bob Denman]

Time will tell... and soon! :D

[billybovine]

I understand that JMA might have a different part number from Ilco or Silca but the JMA ZA-9.P does not appear to be the equivalent of the ZD23RT5 according to the mysecuritypros website. It is equivalent to these,

"This key blank is made by Silca.
Various key blank manufacturers may call this key by a different part number.
Some examples are:
Ilco ZD24RDP-SI
JMA ZA-9-P1, ZA9P1
Silca ZD24RDP
Aprilia 1P
Derbi 1P
Honda 15P
KTM 1P
Moto Guzzi 1P
Piaggio 1P
Triumph 1P"

That same website does not show any JMA equivalent for the ZD23RT5 ( though I would agree that does not mean JMA does not make one it just does not appear to be the ZA-9.P)

"Manufacturer Info


This key blank is made by Silca.
Various key blank manufacturers may call this key by a different part number.
Some examples are:
Ilco ZD23RT5-SI
Silca ZD23RT5
Aprilia Chip
Can-Am Chip"


I am inclined to agree though that the 14 has changed.


That website is steering you wrong. I have a Silca ZD24RDP it does not have a T5 transponder chip in it. It does have the same blade profile.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

This is the same link I used to order the blanks I have. Do not use this link, turns out it is the wrong blank in the first place. The link is supposed to take you to the blank ZD23RT5 which according to another web site is the correct blank. In fact if you look at the title that is where it says it will take you, but in fact the key shown is ZA-9.P
I ordered two of these thinking I was getting the 23RT5 and got the ZA-9.P instead. The ZD23RT5 is a much more expensive blank. Below is a copy of the web page, note the title has the correct blank number but in smaller print below it actually is ordering the ZA-9.P:

"Aprilia Scotters Transponder Key RW (ZD23RT5) JMA


KB-TP05ZA-9.P


Your Price: $7.65
In Stock
Item Number: KB-TP05ZA-9.P
Quantity:
Email this page to a friend"


Below is a link to the other web site that shows the correct blank
http://mysecuritypro.com/ApriliaMalagutiMBKZD23RT5MotorcycleKeyBlanks.aspx
Note the considerably higher price for this blank.

I went ahead and had one of the ZA-9.P cut to see if it would open the trunk, It Will Not, so do not waste your money.

So still don't know whether the ZD23RT5 is the correct blank for the 14 or not. But given the price of the blanks I might just get another spare from BRP
The KB-TP05ZA-9.P is what I ordered 2 of. They work almost just fine in my 2013 RT. The cutting isn't as clean as it should be but they turn all the locks. They cloned just fine and work perfectly for starting the bike. As has been mentioned before, there is a good chance they will not work for the 2014 due to chip differences. I understand the grooves are still the same. The number differences you note above are just differences in the catalog numbers used by different key manufacturers. E.g., Ilco numbers aren't the same as Axxess numbers, but the keys are interchangeable.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

There is enough confusion already. BUDS does not clone keys.
Cloning is making a copy of an existing key including making it transmit the same transponder code. The vehicle is not involved in cloning a key.
When you buy a BRP blank it already transmits it's own unique unchangeable transponder code. With BUDS on the 2014s you program the Spyder to accept the code that this new key transmits as good to go.
I'm inclined to think what BRP has done is move the computer code to start the key programming process, maybe even the entire programming code, from the DESS module on the bike to the BUDS. This still would not prevent using a cloned key. The key (pun intended!) is to find an alternate chip key with a compatible chip and the same profile as the BRP key. As I mentioned earlier, part numbers for all three, the ignition key module, the DESS, and the key, have all changed for 2014. This also probably means that any service tech with a BUDS program that has not been updated for the 2014 models won't be able to program a key on a 2014 bike.

[ulflyer]

The KB-TP05ZA-9.P is what I ordered 2 of. They work almost just fine in my 2013 RT. The cutting isn't as clean as it should be but they turn all the locks. They cloned just fine and work perfectly for starting the bike. As has been mentioned before, there is a good chance they will not work for the 2014 due to chip differences. I understand the grooves are still the same. The number differences you note above are just differences in the catalog numbers used by different key manufacturers. E.g., Ilco numbers aren't the same as Axxess numbers, but the keys are interchangeable.

You said earlier that the one you had cut did not work on the '14 trunk. Any idea why? Are the groves diff, or perhaps just a bad cut?

[ulflyer]

Could be a bad cut but looking closely at the grooves the ZA-9.P they do not look to be quite as long as the BRP key. Just went and measured the grooves as close as I can with a tape measure. The clone key ZA-9.P groves are between 1/16 - 2/16 shorter than the BRP measured from the start of the groves to the end of the keys. Also the clone key has a single dimple on the outside of the blade starting at the grove. The BRP has 2 dimples on both sides of the key 2/16ths above the groves.

So it does look like the 14 is a different key?

Sure sounds like the 14 is diff. Maybe one of the aftermarkets will come up with one that does work.

Meanwhile, after I get the one I ordered, I can peddle it to a pre-14 owner, probably someone local, and I can get it cloned for them.

Perhaps Bob will have more luck with his, but that sounds doubtful also.

Thanks much for the feedback.

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Do you feel as if you're waiting for the train wreck to occur? :shocked: 85599

[ulflyer]

:shocked: Do you feel as if you're waiting for the train wreck to occur? :shocked: 85599

A toy train perhaps? :D

[Bob Denman]

:D As far as non-problems go; don't we wish, that they were all like this? :thumbup:

[billybovine]

I'm inclined to think what BRP has done is move the computer code to start the key programming process, maybe even the entire programming code, from the DESS module on the bike to the BUDS. This still would not prevent using a cloned key. The key (pun intended!) is to find an alternate chip key with a compatible chip and the same profile as the BRP key. As I mentioned earlier, part numbers for all three, the ignition key module, the DESS, and the key, have all changed for 2014. This also probably means that any service tech with a BUDS program that has not been updated for the 2014 models won't be able to program a key on a 2014 bike.

You are likely right. But BRP will often not take the logical path and so we won't be sure until all the facts are in. In my opinion the master key system was just dumb. A while back I came across across someone on the internet selling cloned master keys and BRP will sell master keys to anybody so what's the point of the master key. I think BRP should allow in their system for the owner to program more more keys on their own without the dealer as long as they have 2 working keys. This is done by some of the automakers.

In theory a key can be cloned for any vehicle, but is there a cloneable blank available. We won't know if there is blank for the 2014s until we know what chip they are using. So I am waiting for our SL guinea pig to tell us what he finds out with the key he sent to Hawaii. What chip is it? Better yet, what blank will work?

[Gray Ghost]

... BRP will sell master keys to anybody...

There is an advantage to the Master Key system for owners. If you can come up with a reasonably priced CanAm blank anyone with a Master Key could program it to your byke as long as you didn't go over 4 keys. With the 2014 using BUDS you will now have to have someone with the system to program the keys. Big difference in price between a Master Key and BUDS.

Note: I am not addressing the cloning process as it is entirely different.

[Cruzr Joe]

Could be a bad cut but looking closely at the grooves the ZA-9.P they do not look to be quite as long as the BRP key. Just went and measured the grooves as close as I can with a tape measure. The clone key ZA-9.P groves are between 1/16 - 2/16 shorter than the BRP measured from the start of the groves to the end of the keys. Also the clone key has a single dimple on the outside of the blade starting at the grove. The BRP has 2 dimples on both sides of the key 2/16ths above the groves.

So it does look like the 14 is a different key?


My ZA.9.P works as a key to open trunk and frunk on my 2014 RT-S, not sure if it will clone yet because i can't find anyone to clone it

Cruzr Joe

[billybovine]

There is an advantage to the Master Key system for owners. If you can come up with a reasonably priced CanAm blank anyone with a Master Key could program it to your byke as long as you didn't go over 4 keys. With the 2014 using BUDS you will now have to have someone with the system to program the keys. Big difference in price between a Master Key and BUDS.

Note: I am not addressing the cloning process as it is entirely different.

It would be even better like I said if the owner could add or delete keys without the dealer or a master key. That would be even cheaper and there would be no need for clones at all.

[Bob Denman]

...Shot down in flames... :gaah:
But with a full refund!
They changed the key, and you need some sort of advanced cloning hardware to crack the new chip... :shocked:

[Tango]

...Shot down in flames... :gaah:
But with a full refund!
They changed the key, and you need some sort of advanced cloning hardware to crack the new chip... :shocked:

That figures. :banghead: Can anyone talk :chat: to their dealer about a group buy for a BRP key? My dealer is nuts! They want $47 for the damn thing. :yikes: Tom :trike:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

That figures. :banghead: Can anyone talk :chat: to their dealer about a group buy for a BRP key? My dealer is nuts! They want $47 for the damn thing. :yikes: Tom :trike:
That's really not out of line. A local True Value charges $75 for a car transponder key! About 15 years ago my brother paid $100 for a Cadillac key!

[Rattlebars]

2001 Lexus LX470. New key $350. Count your blessings. I got 4 keys cut for $15 each, but the remote on them won't work to open the doors. BFD. Only my master key will work from afar.

[Bob Denman]

:oldpost:
It was well established three years ago, that cloning doesn't work with the new crypto-chipped keys...