.....and I carry.

[Cavman]

What a great video!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=8pTsEGeqTaE

[Tazzel]

how sad

[Dan McNally]

how sad

I don't understand . . . :dontknow:

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for posting this! :thumbup:

[bscrive]

Being Canadian I don't get the need to be armed. I wouldn't want to live in a place where I need a gun to feel safe. If you need that to feel safe then I really do feel sorry for you. nojoke

[Bob Denman]

If It's not your thing; That's cool... :thumbup:
But there's no need to feel sorry for anybody.
By the way: When's the last time you had a Law Enforcement Officer stop a burglar, while he was still in your house? :D

[Fat Crip]

Being Canadian I don't get the need to be armed. I wouldn't want to live in a place where I need a gun to feel safe. If you need that to feel safe then I really do feel sorry for you. nojoke

Likewise here in the UK. Here not even the police here are armed with anything more than a truncheon most of the time. Even carrying a knife here will get you arrested. Carrying a gun, even a 22 will get you five years in jail. Some of you may find that madness, but it's why no one gets shot here and on the odd occasion they do it's headline news.


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[shelbydave]

Likewise here in the UK. Here not even the police here are armed with anything more than a truncheon most of the time. Even carrying a knife here will get you arrested. Carrying a gun, even a 22 will get you five years in jail. Some of you may find that madness, but it's why no one gets shot here and on the odd occasion they do it's headline news.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

There's more to violence than "gun" violence....

[Bob Denman]

:agree: Firearms aren't the problem...
It's the people! :gaah:

[Cavman]

We are waiting for the Governer of GA to sign bill HB60 which just passed the house last night.
Here is what it contains:

[mowin]

Great video...

[rpatsh]

I live in Spokane... and I carry!

[Fat Crip]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

There's more to violence than "gun" violence....

2009? Crime rates here are falling fast and no one gets shot. I realise the US can't turn back the clock on this, but, despite I've always loved shooting, I'm really glad that I don't need to go out armed to just feel safe.


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[Bob Denman]

Can you post a link to more current data? ;)

[shelbydave]

2009? Crime rates here are falling fast and no one gets shot. I realise the US can't turn back the clock on this, but, despite I've always loved shooting, I'm really glad that I don't need to go out armed to just feel safe.


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The fact that it was 2009 is irrelevant to the point that I was making. Guns alone are simply "things". If there wasn't gun violence, there would be other violence as seen in that report.

Until we fix peoples obsession with violence, it will happen, whether it's guns, screw drivers, vehicles, or anything else. It's people that are the problem, not the guns.

[Bob Denman]

, I'm really glad that I don't need to go out armed to just feel safe.
Who said that?
We go out armed; to feel prepared for whatever may happen...
You might hit an animal with your vehicle, and it needs to be put out of it's misery... (three times in 42 years of driving)
It's not all about shooting a "bad guy"...

[ARtraveler]

I live in a state where most everybody carries. And I am talking the "big stuff".

[Fat Crip]

ukcrimestats.com provides up to date figures and you'll see that, in particular violent crime continues to fall. Though even were we the worst in Europe, crime is still low in Europe and gun crime is notably absent compared to the US.

I'm my lifetime there have been three mass shootings in the UK, one in the 80's with a chap with an AK47, one in the 90's with a guy using a couple of 9mm pistols to shoot a class of school children and a few years ago a guy ran rampage in Cumbria with a shotgun and a bolt action rifle, driving around shooting a person here and there. After the first assault rifles were banned, after the second, all pistols were banned and the third there was a general tightening of who could have a permit. I suspect that some of these reactions were over reactions, but they have meant that most guns in the UK, excepting the armed services, are either double barrelled shotguns or air rifles. Even to own a shotgun, one has to show a good reason to own it and keep it in a locked safe to avoid them falling in to criminal hands. As a result, we live in a peaceful country where violence is almost exclusively limited to fisticuffs between drunken young men on a Saturday night and rarely more serious.

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[Fat Crip]

Actually, here's a better link as it's a much briefer summary of the raw data:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/feb/13/violent-sexual-crime-statistics-england-wales-2013


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[shelbydave]

Actually, it looks like violent crime is UP from January 2013.. according to the chart...:dontknow:

[Tazzel]

Who said that?
We go out armed; to feel prepared for whatever may happen...
You might hit an animal with your vehicle, and it needs to be put out of it's misery... (three times in 42 years of driving)
It's not all about shooting a "bad guy"...

If that were really true, then use a rock :):)

[Bob Denman]

Have you ever tried to beat a deer to death with a rock? :shocked:

[shelbydave]

If that were really true, then use a rock :):)


So the answer to putting a suffering animal out of it's misery is to hit it some more? :dontknow:

[Pennyrick]

If that were really true, then use a rock :):)


http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/dramatic-911-call-released-in-intruder-shooting/nTrLK/


Note this item about my neighbor. I'm sure if she had thrown a rock at him it would have really helped.

By the way the response time from law enforcement was ten minutes from the time her husband called 911. The average response time in our area is fifteen minutes. I can have my weapon in my hand in fifteen seconds.... I like my odds better on my timetable.

[Sarge707]

If It's not your thing; That's cool... :thumbup:
But there's no need to feel sorry for anybody.
By the way: When's the last time you had a Law Enforcement Officer stop a burglar, while he was still in your house? :D

That's where my Loaded Ruger 22 rifle with 22 rounds between my bed and the wall comes into play!
If I Felt I had to carry a Pistol in my town I would move!

[crazyspyder]

If that were really true, then use a rock :):)
OOOOHH YEEAh- gona be filling my pockets full :bdh: of rocks on my next road trip, LOL -seriously ! I carry a 9mil and don't take to kindly to a government telling me I cant own a gun much less a knife. how in the world
is such a society going to defend their own when it goes to hell. :dontknow: here's a statement someone said, '' Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.''.. :shocked: its called FREEDOM brothers n sisters.
ok gona go clean my weapons!

[Bob Denman]

That's where my Loaded Ruger 22 rifle with 22 rounds between my bed and the wall comes into play!
If I Felt I had to carry a Pistol in my town I would move!

You've taken responsibility for your own safety; WAY cool! :clap: :2thumbs:

[rpatsh]

I would rather have my gun and not need it then to need it and not have it.
Gun is like a parachute if you don't have it when you need it you'll never need it again.

[Bob Denman]

Everbody who carries; should view the video that CruzrJoe posted earlier today... :clap: :2thumbs: nojoke

[Dan McNally]

There are fewer than 100 homes in my development . . . and just last year there were three attempted home invasions . . . damn right, I carry.

[Cavman]

Thursday morning at SpyderFest I'm planning to check out the Lead Mine State Forest Shooting Range. Threefeet and I went to the Andy Dalton Range last year.
It looks to be a nice ride in the country too. It's NNE of Springfield.

[ChrisW]

And I Carry.....:doorag:

[Oldmanzues]

Likewise here in the UK. Here not even the police here are armed with anything more than a truncheon most of the time. Even carrying a knife here will get you arrested. Carrying a gun, even a 22 will get you five years in jail. Some of you may find that madness, but it's why no one gets shot here and on the odd occasion they do it's headline news.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Interesting, since the real crime rate in the UK has soared since confication. Crimes are just not reported to a centeral office, soi the official rate is down.
Oldmanzues

[Oldmanzues]

Why do people carry ?? Some thugs think it is a game to just run and hit people, the so called knock out game. Peopl hurt or killed. Just on example. The media loves to yell when a person got shot about unneeded violence. Just because he was kicking in the front door and waving a gun around does seem to matter to them.

This statement was made and is true. The only thing that will stop a bad guy (or gal) with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Theat good guy could be a Policemena or a trained person with a weapon.
The part of the statement is The Police are only minutes away, when the bad guy is 10 seconds from killing or raping a person.
Gun control laws only hurt law abiding citizens. Crooks do not follow the law.
Oldmanzues

[SNOOPY]

There are fewer than 100 homes in my development . . . and just last year there were three attempted home invasions . . . damn right, I carry.



Same here and we're in a nice neighborhood.


My take on the UK being deemed as so non violent is that it is just covered up better so the general public doesn't know what is really going on.

They try that here, but if you search a bit you can see what really goes on around your neighborhood.

.

[Magdave]

Watch This Video


http://youtu.be/fGaDAThOHhA

When guns are illegal only criminals will have guns

[btcherm]

I live in Michigan ,and I carry.

[mowin]

That's where my Loaded Ruger 22 rifle with 22 rounds between my bed and the wall comes into play!
If I Felt I had to carry a Pistol in my town I would move!


Im glad you are prepared to defend yourself and your family in your home. But if you felt you had to carry, you would move, then why wouldnt you move if you felt (and you obviously do) need to keep a loaded 22 by your bed? Same thing IMO!

Also, no one said the felt they HAD to carry. They CHOOSE to.

[Biggdogg22]

What a great video!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=8pTsEGeqTaE

Very nice video message. I carry also. No Offense, but can this site be devoted to loving Can Am Spyders. I like seeing message about the Spyders we all own and what we can do to improve our ride along with adding new fracklers....

[Jeriatric]

How many Non Leos here have ever used a weapon to stop a crime, or hold a criminal, until a Leo could intervene?

Not taking a side. Just asking a question.

[Jeriatric]

I guess it all depends on which side you "want" to believe.

Am down with all the stats. Just asked a simple question. ;)

[Jeriatric]

:thumbup:

[Netminder]

Each country has its laws and constitutions. I like ours here in Canada, but respect those in other countries! That is just the way it is!:thumbup::thumbup:

[JkRbbt]

I don't feel like I have to carry with all you folks out there ready to protect me! Sometimes I feel like, if I showed up at a Spyder rally, I would be the only one NOT carrying, well unless you consider that flask in my hip pocket! ;)

[Pennyrick]

How many Non Leos here have ever used a weapon to stop a crime, or hold a criminal, until a Leo could intervene?

Not taking a side. Just asking a question.

Jer:

Depends on the definitions.

I came out of a Wal Mart to find a guy sitting on my Spyder RT. His wife was standing beside him telling him to get off. I could see he was high on something so I put down my packages and zippered open my jacket.

Politely, I told him to get off the Spyder and pulled my jacket back to reveal my weapon.

He wasn't attempting to steal my Spyder and I'm not sure what he was doing counts as an illegal act. (Trespassing, maybe?).

His wife screamed, 'he's got a gun, Wayne!.

Whereupon Wayne tried to jump off but caught his foot on the passenger handle, failing on his face in the parking lot. Wayne and wife then raced out of the lot with wife trying to stem the blood flow with kleenex.

Now, I really didn't use the weapon, I just revealed it. Given this did not appear to be any kind of life-threatening situation, I doubt I would have unholstered it.

No LEO was involved although a spectator said she was ready to make a call if things got out of hand.

[Bob Denman]

Each country has its laws and constitutions. I like ours here in Canada, but respect those in other countries! That is just the way it is!:thumbup::thumbup:
Cool... WAY cool!! :clap: :2thumbs:

[Bob Denman]

:lecturef_smilie: Don't waste time bringing a weapon to the dance, if you're not prepared to take it to the final step... :shocked:
You will hesitate when the :cus: hits the fan, and your opponent may not! :yikes:
Simple combat training: Aim for the center of mass, and don't stop pulling the trigger until the other party has ceased to be a potential for danger.

[Blue Star]

Very nice video message. I carry also. No Offense, but can this site be devoted to loving Can Am Spyders. I like seeing message about the Spyders we all own and what we can do to improve our ride along with adding new fracklers....

:agree: this board is about Spyders, and with the history of threads about guns (and other things) turning ugly. Makes me wonder why people continue to agitate this board with threads like this.

[Blue Star]

Folks can be civil. There's usually only a hand full of minorities who don't like a conversation and instead of ignoring cry foul.

That said, this is by far the most civil forum I've ever been on. It's why I'm still here, even though I no longer own a Spyder. It's fun to lurk and have conversations with good people. :)


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Folks can (and should) be civil, but in the four years I have been reading this board. I have yet to see a thread on the rights to carry stay civil. I hope this thread proves me wrong.

[Jeriatric]

Folks can be civil. There's usually only a hand full of minorities who don't like a conversation and instead of ignoring cry foul.

That said, this is by far the most civil forum I've ever been on. It's why I'm still here, even though I no longer own a Spyder. It's fun to lurk and have conversations with good people. :)


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:roflblack: stop being a 2014 hold out :joke:

[crazyspyder]

this area of the board is -OFF TOPIC conversations. NO need to be spyder related. good people here and will stay civil or lamonster will step in and wave his wand . he's kool guy! --- finished
cleaning my guns , must off fired some bad ammo because my 9mil was really dirty...bummer!

[SNOOPY]

Am down with all the stats. Just asked a simple question. ;)



My sister is a cop, if these answers were public we would be surprised how much crime is out there.


just trying not to shock you!....

[SNOOPY]

I believe strongly in being prepared.

I believe in having a gun or four at hand.

I believe in helping whoever I can to be safe.

Even the ignorant who think we don't need guns.

With that said, I hope that I live in a great neighborhood.

I hope I never see anyone being threatened.

I hope no one has the nerve to try to take my life.

God forbid I see someone trying to take someone Else's life!


.

[Wwulf76]

Am down with all the stats. Just asked a simple question. ;)

The media doesn't want you to hear how often this happens, but it happens more than you would think. My husband and I both have conceal carry permits (as do both of my parents). I have one beside my bed and one in my truck (and many others for fun :D). I have no problem with defending myself or my family if needed. I have made that decision ahead of time. It is a personal choice, one you have to think about very hard before you even strap on the gun. We have a philosophy. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

[Jeriatric]

How many Non Leos here have ever used a weapon to stop a crime, or hold a criminal, until a Leo could intervene?

Not taking a side. Just asking a question.


The media doesn't want you to hear how often this happens, but it happens more than you would think. My husband and I both have conceal carry permits (as do both of my parents). I have one beside my bed and one in my truck (and many others for fun :D). I have no problem with defending myself or my family if needed. I have made that decision ahead of time. It is a personal choice, one you have to think about very hard before you even strap on the gun. We have a philosophy. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

All I aked was a simple question?

Have never revealed whether I carry or not, and never will. But, that's just me.

[Cavman]

I was carrying today when I took a 2014 RT test ride.

[Bob Denman]

:agree: this board is about Spyders, and with the history of threads about guns (and other things) turning ugly. Makes me wonder why people continue to agitate this board with threads like this.

And the answer...


this area of the board is -OFF TOPIC conversations. NO need to be spyder related. good people here and will stay civil or lamonster will step in and wave his wand . he's kool guy! --- finished

Thanks! :thumbup:

Nobody ever said to expect that EVERY topic you see would be one or interest, or one that your opinion would hold the majority in...
Diversity of opinions and interests is what makes things interesting; don't you think? ;)
As long as folks stay cool about respecting the rights of others; all is good! :2thumbs:

[MidLifeCrisis]

All I aked was a simple question?

Have never revealed whether I carry or not, and never will. But, that's just me.

Carry what? :roflblack: seriously though, It fits well within the keep them guessing mantra and not everything should be about what we do or don't like. I don't smoke and can't stand to be around it either. That said, I voted against banning smoking in restaurants and bars, when it was on the AZ ballot years ago. Taking away rights, leads to taking away more rights. Anyone want to talk about the recent bans on e-cigarettes?

It's not okay to demonize an object or group to fulfill an agenda, regardless of what it may be or if "I" like or don't like it. I've lived in other countries under two oppressive regimes already, so I prefer to err on the side of liberty.


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[Bob Denman]

:agree: If folks want to remain idiots, hy not wisely agreeing with you; that's their problem! ;) :joke::joke::joke::joke::joke::joke:

[Blue Star]

And the answer...


Thanks! :thumbup:

Nobody ever said to expect that EVERY topic you see would be one or interest, or one that your opinion would hold the majority in...
Diversity of opinions and interests is what makes things interesting; don't you think? ;)
As long as folks stay cool about respecting the rights of others; all is good! :2thumbs:

:agree: I hope it stays this way.

[vrodrjs]

I grew up in a small town where nobody ever locked their doors and everyone left the keys hanging in the ignition on the town square(mid 80's). I married the girl I dated in high school and a few years later we moved about 40 miles away. Great story but so what? My wife is a court reporter and we moved because she got a job as an Official Reporter meaning she is assigned to a specific courthouse and judge. What she sees on a daily basis would shock and amaze you unless you are part of the legal community. The county that we live in is about 35,000 people and just under 600 sq miles. So for those of you who have the illusion that you are safe and nothing bad will ever happen, take a trip down to your local courthouse and have a seat in the gallery. Oh and the small town we grew up in, my wife goes down there when her judge has to hear something that a judge that is down there can't. Same stuff goes on but nobody talks about it and the small town paper doesn't report it because that might be bad for business.
Do I generally feel safe in the town that I live in, yes of course I do. Do I take steps to make sure it stays that way for myself and my family, of course I do. To me it comes down to who is most responsible for my safety and the safety of my family, the answer is me. I refuse to be one of those people standing around waiting for the government too come help when something bad happens. I have great respect for LEO and what they do, but just like teachers, they can only do so much.
The decision to carry or not to carry, to be prepared to defend your home and family or wait for the police is a very personal one. Unfortunately many people do not invest the time and effort they should to gather the information they need to make an educated decision. What ever you decide make sure you can live with the outcome of that decision.
If you decide to protect yourself with a firearm, you better make sure that using that firearm is like breathing, something that you don't even have to think about.

[Bob Denman]

If you decide to protect yourself with a firearm, you better make sure that using that firearm is like breathing, something that you don't even have to think about.
:agree: :lecturef_smilie: Firearms ownership may be a "right"; but it's one that carries with it, a tremendous responsibility! nojoke

There's abosolutely NO room for errors...
And there's no eraser hooked to the muzzle. Once you let a round go; a river of tears won't wash away the results! :shocked:
It takes discipline and control over yourself.
We've all seen what's going on in South Africa right now...
I have no doubt that the poor guy never wanted this to happen...
But he was just a bit too "smitten" with how the handguns made him feel...
It's a damn shame what happened to his girlfriend I have no doubt that they both regretted, and will regret, his decisions to own firearms for the rest of their lives.
Only she was the lucky one; her regret only lasted a matter of seconds...
His private HELL :shocked:; is just beginning.

[cuznjohn]

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/1947651_715625155146819_1910891539_n.jpg

[wyliec]

Bob D.,

I was going to let what you said go because I didn't want to take the thread in another direction. But, to me it's seems strange that an intruder would go into a bathroom and lock it; was the so called intruder looking to steal some toilet paper and locked the door to make sure no one intruded? I also think it was complete B.S. that the husband didn't realize his wife wasn't in bed. JMO

[SNOOPY]

Carry what? :roflblack: seriously though, It fits well within the keep them guessing mantra and not everything should be about what we do or don't like. I don't smoke and can't stand to be around it either. That said, I voted against banning smoking in restaurants and bars, when it was on the AZ ballot years ago. Taking away rights, leads to taking away more rights. Anyone want to talk about the recent bans on e-cigarettes?

It's not okay to demonize an object or group to fulfill an agenda, regardless of what it may be or if "I" like or don't like it. I've lived in other countries under two oppressive regimes already, so I prefer to err on the side of liberty.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Welcome to the third. :banghead:


lol

.

[retread]

I've had a CCW most of my life. Do I carry? My business, not yours.

john

[Netminder]

Bob D.,

I was going to let what you said go because I didn't want to take the thread in another direction. But, to me it's seems strange that an intruder would go into a bathroom and lock it; was the so called intruder looking to steal some toilet paper and locked the door to make sure no one intruded? I also think it was complete B.S. that the husband didn't realize his wife wasn't in bed. JMO
:agree:

[Bob Denman]

Well; when YOU wake up in the middle of the night.... how alert are you? Really??
The poor dumb guy has a fascination with sidearms that goes beyond the range of what could be considered "normal"...
He didn't process all of the facts completely, and let his imagination fill in the blanks...

That falls under the heading of, "Be 100% sure of your target, and what's behind it!", when we teach Sportman Education classes

[wyliec]

That falls under the heading of, "Be 100% sure of your target, and what's behind it!", when we teach Sportman Education classes

I think he was 100% sure.

[Bob Denman]

That might be a discussion best-saved for another thread... :shocked:

[SNOOPY]

Pretty much on par with how the others got ushered in. Learn from history? What's that? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:



Exactly

[wyliec]

Exactly

It must be true, if two of you say the same thing. I'm leaving for Shangri-La.

[SNOOPY]

LOL


Unfortunately, nowhere looks better than anywhere else anymore. Everywhere has it's issues.

That's why I stay home most of the time. roflmao

.

[Bob Ledford]

"Guns by themselves don't kill people." But, people using guns and other objects do!

Automobiles in a general use of the word,automobiles, kill more people then privately carried fire arms. Never have I read of anyone calling for automobile controls!

To carry should be allowed universally in my opinion. Why? As a tool of prevention to suppress the urge to kill for whatever reason. I carried a rifle, pistol, machine gun, shotgun etc fr 37 years of working time and for some 50 years totally. Never shot anyone during that entire time period.

But can not say I did not draw down on more then one because more then once the threat was made by others. Weapons for personal protection serve more as a prevention tool for the majority of time. I can also say that some of my personal friends have displayed their personal weapons and averted being robbed while pumping gas or cut.

My first wife and I stopped a potential theft of a neighbors brand new outboard boat engine one night with a empty 22 hand gun. We heard two teenagers talking outside our bedroom window one night. We eased out of bed, pulled on clothing, I went out one door, she went out another with a big light and the police arrived just as we lit them up and secured both of them. Later during the report building period one of the LEO's on scene asked if he could handle my pistol. I flipped the cylinder out to unload it and found it empty. We all had a brief chuckle while I looked stupid and embarassed. Then I got my much deserved reprimand from my wife and a sigh of relief from the LEO.

[Bob Ledford]

OOOOHH YEEAh- gona be filling my pockets full :bdh: of rocks on my next road trip, LOL -seriously ! I carry a 9mil and don't take to kindly to a government telling me I cant own a gun much less a knife. how in the world
is such a society going to defend their own when it goes to hell. :dontknow: here's a statement someone said, '' Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.''.. :shocked: its called FREEDOM brothers n sisters.
ok gona go clean my weapons!

Crazyspyder I am with you bro' look at Crimeia and the Ukraine today. If the citizens had been armed they just might not have been such an easy turn over. What do you call citizens without defensive weapons? You can call them, slaves!

[SNOOPY]

"Guns by themselves don't kill people." But, people using guns and other objects do!

Automobiles in a general use of the word,automobiles, kill more people then privately carried fire arms. Never have I read of anyone calling for automobile controls!

To carry should be allowed universally in my opinion. Why? As a tool of prevention to suppress the urge to kill for whatever reason. I carried a rifle, pistol, machine gun, shotgun etc fr 37 years of working time and for some 50 years totally. Never shot anyone during that entire time period.

But can not say I did not draw down on more then one because more then once the threat was made by others. Weapons for personal protection serve more as a prevention tool for the majority of time. I can also say that some of my personal friends have displayed their personal weapons and averted being robbed while pumping gas or cut.

My first wife and I stopped a potential theft of a neighbors brand new outboard boat engine one night with a empty 22 hand gun. We heard two teenagers talking outside our bedroom window one night. We eased out of bed, pulled on clothing, I went out one door, she went out another with a big light and the police arrived just as we lit them up and secured both of them. Later during the report building period one of the LEO's on scene asked if he could handle my pistol. I flipped the cylinder out to unload it and found it empty. We all had a brief chuckle while I looked stupid and embarassed. Then I got my much deserved reprimand from my wife and a sigh of relief from the LEO.


roflmao

[wyliec]

Crazyspyder I am with you bro' look at Crimeia and the Ukraine today. If the citizens had been armed they just might not have been such an easy turn over. What do you call citizens without defensive weapons? You can call them, slaves!

So, anyone here in the USA is a slave, if they don't own a weapon?

[SNOOPY]

I took his statement as general, meaning that a large majority are armed or not armed.

I think as other countries look at us today knowing we have a strong presence of armed citizens, we are less likely to be invaded....although I think in this day and age we are invaded in many ways, and it's getting worse.

[wyliec]

This thread is beginning to tank!

You're correct; and the person who mentioned slaves is the one to cause the tanking process.

[Mexican]

I live in Oklahoma and i carry,,, not to kill anybody, not because i feel unsafe, not because i have enemies, i carry just because i want to, it is my right, just like i have a right to vote.
Soooo, i don't need a gun because i don't plan on been robbed, i guess i will cancel my car insurance since i don't plan on crashing:thumbup:

[wyliec]

So, what would you call the people in North Korea? Iran? Sudan to name a few... Free?

I call them North Koreans, Iranians, and Sudanese.

I think the title of this thread is.......and I carry. That was in reference to those in the States and spyderlovers. These same type of threads have gone south when a poster has called those who don't carry sheeple. That comment and others just like have been in reference to those here. Of course now you're going to say it wasn't meant towards others here, correct?

Why not let Bob Ledford say whom he was talking about?

[crazyspyder]

I call them North Koreans, Iranians, and Sudanese.

I think the title of this thread is.......and I carry. That was in reference to those in the States and spyderlovers. These same type of threads have gone south when a poster has called those who don't carry sheeple. That comment and others just like have been in reference to those here. Of course now you're going to say it wasn't meant towards others here, correct?

Why not let Bob Ledford say whom he was talking about?

SOME one's not playing nice.:lecturef_smilie:

''give me freedom or give me death'', some people just need to be reminded !:)
anyways-...and I carry, and I am out of this thread. tanked out! Elvis has left the stage . :cheers:

[SNOOPY]

What a great video!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=8pTsEGeqTaE


Great video. :thumbup:







Kick starting thread again. Lol

.

[wyliec]

One if the above countries is where I barely escaped alive. I still have family there. They would find your creatively dismissive answer as week minded as I. I'll exit with the others and leave you to your
85328

To think this all started with a question to Bob Ledford, which has gone unanswered, and has degraded to this.

I'll just leave your circular reasoning and kool-aid alone and move on. By the way, it's weak minded. Week minded means I am thinking 7 days ahead; so, thank you for your compliment.

Back to you SNOOPY.

[Bob Denman]

Why doesn't everybody just take a breath, and simmer down... ;)
Angry rhetoric only brings out the worst in all of us. I'm pretty sure that getting the thread yanked because folks don't want to respect the opinions of thers, really isn't in anyone's best interests.
Soo... who wants some ice cream? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_76.gif

[bruiser]

85339

[wyliec]

Why doesn't everybody just take a breath, and simmer down... ;)
Angry rhetoric only brings out the worst in all of us. I'm pretty sure that getting the thread yanked because folks don't want to respect the opinions of thers, really isn't in anyone's best interests.
Soo... who wants some ice cream? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_76.gif

Okay, backing off. No ice cream though.:thumbup:

[DragonSpyder]

To think that by owning handguns that we are safer is ridiculous. Of the wealthy nations in the world we are #1 in gun ownership and #1 in violent crime. Those with tougher gun regulations are much safer by comparison. http://www.kdnuggets.com/2012/12/new-poll-gun-violence-vs-gun-ownership.html

I own guns but am realistic about the impact guns have on our society. More people owning guns does not make it safer. http://islandia.law.yale.edu/ayers/Ayres_Donohue_article.pdf

[bruiser]

One evening, sitting at home around 8:30 there was a knock at the door. I answered and there stood a man in an old field jacket, beard and had his hand in his jacket pocket. He looked somewhat surprised. He said he was looking for the "roofer" to see if he could get a job. I told him I didn't know who he was talking about. My "spider" sense was tingling. I closed the door and told my wife to call the sheriff's office, gave her a description to give to them and got my shoes and pistol. I looked out the front window in time to see this guy running from the back of my neighbors house across the street. I knew they weren't home. My neighbor was a pilot and deployed to Desert Storm. They had two dobermans in the house. I went out the door and took an opposite route to come out above where he was walking.

As I got to the top of the road I heard a window break and someone shout. I saw the same guy jump a fence. He crossed the road and saw me. I asked him what he was doing and he said he was coming from his momma's house. I asked what her name was and what house. He said the gray house across the street. He put his hand in his jacket pocket and I pulled the 357 from my belt and dropped it to my side. His eyes looked like beacons when he saw the gun. About that time a deputy rounded the corner. The guy tried to run, I nailed him behind the knee with a kick. The deputy cuffed him and away they went. The guy had a rap sheet. At that time there was no CC law in NC. But the sheriff never said a word.

The subdivision we lived in had a lot of military folks living there and nearly all were deployed for Desert Storm. The house he tried to break in to, the owner was in bed. He heard someone at the bedroom window, then heard the glass break. He turned the light on and the guy took off. That's when another neighbor yelled.

The deputies found a .22 handgun in the grass and some ammo in the guys pocket. Apparently he dropped the gun when he went over the fence.


There have been a rash of home invasions recently in NC. Two were within 10 miles of where I live. In some cases, the home owners were armed and were able to subdue the perps. In a few cases, at least one of the perps was shot, and a few have been killed. One of those killed was a 16 year old. His mother swore that he was a good boy and never got in trouble. That was one of the break-ins that occurred not far from me There is a trial going on now in Raleigh. Two individuals broke in to a home, one forced the woman into a sex act while the other held her husband at gunpoint. The wife was able to escape and her husband was shot, in the back, and is now paralyzed. These same two punks have been charged with several other home break-ins/invasions.

[Pirate looks at --]

:agree: this board is about Spyders, and with the history of threads about guns (and other things) turning ugly. Makes me wonder why people continue to agitate this board with threads like this.

I am sure that many gun manufacturers have their own forums. Let's leave this one to Spyders.

[jwulf74]

This is the off topic section of the board...

...and I carry, on my Spyder...and everywhere but work where they don't allow it.

[Bob Denman]

I am sure that many gun manufacturers have their own forums. Let's leave this one to Spyders.
"Off-Topic"; iseems pretty self-evident... :dontknow:

We've got the adventures of Perman Binkley, a HUGE thread on jokes, There's always pictures of cars in here somewhere, a whole bunch of music...
If you want to discuss pretty-near anything in here; we're up for it! :thumbup:

:shocked: The only thing is; Y:lecturef_smilie: ou've got to respect the opinions of others during the debates that inevitably will ensue!

[ValCruzSpyder]

:agree::agree:
Could not have said it better than that!!

[Bob Denman]

Now; back to the adventures of Pergie and Doris! :thumbup:

[Vidman]

My Opinion and Not an argument.

I Carry! My choice and right. Your american choice not to carry is your right. I feel sorry for anyone whose country says they can't carry or even own a handgun or rifle. In America you are not required to own a gun. In Switzerland almost every male is required to have a gun. Yet the gun crime is extremely small. You have to wonder what is the difference. Definitely NOT the gun.

The problem with arguing this with non-americans and gun haters is.......Arguing on the internet is........well you know.

[Bob Denman]

It doesn't need to be an argument... :shocked:
We should never back away from an honest exchange of ideas; it's how we learn, and it's how we make new friends! :2thumbs:
I once heard a saying, and I know that I don't quite have it exactly as I was told...
"You want to give somebody a really big head-ache? Beat them over the head with your Bible! Just don't expect them to learn much from the experience."
If we ALL thought the same way... what would we be? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gif :shocked:

[vrodrjs]

If we ALL thought the same way... what would we be? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_158.gif :shocked:

Ummm..... Harley Riders? Before anybody gets all wound up, it is a joke, and I ride one so I think I can say that.

[Bob Denman]

Yes; yes you can! :thumbup: :D
But since you brought them up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izzlN2zC8PU
I know it's from 2010; but it's a CLASSIC; just like Harley! :thumbup:

[Blue Star]

:agree: this board is about Spyders, and with the history of threads about guns (and other things) turning ugly. Makes me wonder why people continue to agitate this board with threads like this.


This thread is beginning to tank!

Looks like I was right, and I am sad that I was.

[Bob Denman]

:D Okay...
What would you like to discuss in here? :dontknow:
Climb up on the soapbox, and give it a whirl! :clap: :2thumbs:

[vrodrjs]

1. Helmets
2. Oil
3. When to shift
4. How fast to ride
:shocked:

[Cavman]

Substuite the word slaves with subjects. Citizens own firearms, subject do not.

[JkRbbt]

I hate to combine threads, but there is one about how to keep people from "messing with your Spyder"! Seems like you folks on this thread have the answer! :rolleyes:

[Blue Star]

:D Okay...
What would you like to discuss in here? :dontknow:
Climb up on the soapbox, and give it a whirl! :clap: :2thumbs:

I have in the past.

[SNOOPY]

For the record, I didn't start any of the arguments in this thread. I know some are wondering. roflmao


.

[Bob Denman]

I have in the past.
So, what about now?
Absent any input as to topics; you're pretty much limited to just two choices...
Join in to the conversation
Move on to another thread that does interest you.
nojoke

Sorry... If you wanted to bring up how to plant elevated garden beds for squash, or how to paint the inside of an oil can; we'd have ALL been happy to join in.

[Bob Denman]

1. Helmets
2. Oil
3. When to shift
4. How fast to ride
:shocked:
Now HERE's a good list of topics! Guaranteed to raise blood pressures! :D

[shelbydave]

http://www.examiner.com/article/illinois-school-handout-teaches-second-amendment-requires-gun-registration


Let the reprogramming of our children begin...

[crazyspyder]

can we have a group hug first before the next debate. :chat: ...

[Chick]

I live in Michigan . . . . . and I carry!

[Bob Denman]

can we have a group hug first before the next debate. :chat: ...

I agree! :D

And we won't even make anyone pass through a metal-detector first! :thumbup: :D

[Magdave]

I agree! :D

And we won't even make anyone pass through a metal-detector first! :thumbup: :D

But what about the full body cavity search? :yikes::roflblack:

[Bob Denman]

:D We LIKE them... :roflblack:
Who's next??
85399

[SNOOPY]

can we have a group hug first before the next debate. :chat: ...


Now that's some funny stuff right there! roflmao

[vrodrjs]

http://www.examiner.com/article/illinois-school-handout-teaches-second-amendment-requires-gun-registration


Let the reprogramming of our children begin...

That is the real deal too! I am sitting about a mile from that school. My sister teaches at a different school in town and showed it to me. Illinois is so messed up I don't think they could fix it if they tried.

[Blue Star]

So, what about now?
Absent any input as to topics; you're pretty much limited to just two choices...
Join in to the conversation
Move on to another thread that does interest you.
nojoke

Sorry... If you wanted to bring up how to plant elevated garden beds for squash, or how to paint the inside of an oil can; we'd have ALL been happy to join in.

Sorry I :cus: in your cereal. You won't hear from me again.

[Sarge707]

Sorry I :cus: in your cereal. You won't hear from me again.

Someone- NOT ME! Needs to start a ---

Why I Do Not Carry and Have NEVER personally carried a Weapon on my Person in my lifetime Thread?

If you carry OR Have ever carried "Do Not Respond!!!"

ALSO- Please leave Home defense out of the Equation!!!

??????????????? :lecturef_smilie:

Remember -Not My Idea?

[Dan McNally]

How many Non Leos here have ever used a weapon to stop a crime, or hold a criminal, until a Leo could intervene?

Not taking a side. Just asking a question.

My father, uncle, and I were returning from a deer hunt. We passed a police cruiser on a street not far from our home. On the ground, outside of it was a police officer in a struggle with three men. He had a death grip on his pistol, and they were trying to get it from him. When three men with shotguns aimed at them approached, they saw the error of their ways. Another time, Dad heard his back door crash as it was kicked from outside. He reached under his bed and grabbed his shotgun . . . he met the guy who kicked in his door in the kitchen . . . Mom called the cops while Dad kept him company at gun point. It happens. I've carried everywhere I was allowed . . . have never needed to use my pistol, but I'd much rather have it and never need it, that not have it on a very bad day. And very bad days do happen . . .

[Bob Denman]

Sorry I :cus: in your cereal. You won't hear from me again.
My cereal has never tasted better... We're good, :thumbup:

[vrodrjs]

How many Non Leos here have ever used a weapon to stop a crime, or hold a criminal, until a Leo could intervene?

Not taking a side. Just asking a question.

Never have and I hope I never have to.nojoke

I also have never needed a seat belt or a helmet (on a street bike), but I always wear both.. ok I wear one or the other not both at the same time.
I also take a Spare Air on every dive, again never needed it and I hope I never do.

2 bad days
1. My parents house got broken into when I was a kid. Luckily nobody was home. My dad was always ticked about that. We were on vacation so the house was locked, normally it wasn't. So the punks tore up the sliding glass door getting in.

2. My current home was broken into, my wife came home while they were still in the house. They heard the garage door opening and ran out the back before she got inside.

[SNOOPY]

Never have and I hope I never have to.nojoke

I also have never needed a seat belt or a helmet (on a street bike), but I always wear both.. ok I wear one or the other not both at the same time.
I also take a Spare Air on every dive, again never needed it and I hope I never do.

2 bad days
1. My parents house got broken into when I was a kid. Luckily nobody was home. My dad was always ticked about that. We were on vacation so the house was locked, normally it wasn't. So the punks tore up the sliding glass door getting in.

2. My current home was broken into, my wife came home while they were still in the house. They heard the garage door opening and ran out the back before she got inside.


The wife and I take care of someone in our home so we use to think it was safe having someone at home as far as a deterrent to someone trying to break in, but last year a couple doors down a lady was home (actually sleeping) while some punks proceeded to break in (during the day). Some dogs alerted the wife to the situation and made it known police were on the way.

Just made us realize that people don't know or care if you are home when they decide to break in.

[bruiser]

My niece and her boyfriend live in the basement apartment of my sisters house. One evening my niece saw a face in the window above her bed. She yelled. Her boyfriend and my bro in law went outside and caught the guy. He was caught with his zipper down and his junk hanging out. He's in jail now, serving a two year sentence. Turns out, this isn't his first offence. This guy was lucky he didn't get the snot beat out of him. The kicker to this was that my brother-in-law was nearly arrested by the younger cop because he was carrying one of his swords.


By the way, I don't do group hugs. Now, if you want to have a shot of whisky...

[Bob Denman]

By the way, I don't do group hugs. Now, if you want to have a shot of whisky...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lulUCmBljt4

[vrodrjs]

By the way, I don't do group hugs. Now, if you want to have a shot of whisky...

For me it all depends on the make up of the group.:D

[Bob Denman]

The Swedish Bikini Team??? :D

[HuckFin]

How many Non Leos here have ever used a weapon to stop a crime, or hold a criminal, until a Leo could intervene?

Not taking a side. Just asking a question.

Me.....And the crime would have been against me.

[Bob Denman]

Someone- NOT ME! Needs to start a ---
Why I Do Not Carry and Have NEVER personally carried a Weapon on my Person in my lifetime Thread?
If you carry OR Have ever carried "Do Not Respond!!!"
ALSO- Please leave Home defense out of the Equation!!!
??????????????? :lecturef_smilie:
Remember -Not My Idea?

Awwwww... I volunteer YOU for the thread starter :D

C'mon; it might be interesting to see why folks do what they do, on the OTHER side of the fence! :2thumbs:

[wyliec]

Awwwww... I volunteer YOU for the thread starter :D

C'mon; it might be interesting to see why folks do what they do, on the OTHER side of the fence! :2thumbs:

I second that motion. All in favor.

[Bob Denman]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_202.gif

[Sarge707]

I second that motion. All in favor.

No Way- Trying to keep a Low Profile AND I,m too shy and reserved!:yikes:

[Bob Denman]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_210.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_211.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_212.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_213.gifhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_214.gif

[vrodrjs]

The Swedish Bikini Team??? :D
I am in!!!!!

[Bob Denman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSmnxet2Sdo

8543285433

[SNOOPY]

For me it all depends on the make up of the group.:D



Me too....jury is still out on this forum for me.... lots of set-in-their-minds-old-fogies here!



:hiding:

.

[Dan McNally]

This is quite a floorboard! Made by http://convictcustomcycles.com/ (http://convictcustomcycles.com/)

85447

[SNOOPY]

Cool :thumbup:

[Dan_Ashley]

Likewise here in the UK. Here not even the police here are armed with anything more than a truncheon most of the time. Even carrying a knife here will get you arrested. Carrying a gun, even a 22 will get you five years in jail. Some of you may find that madness, but it's why no one gets shot here and on the odd occasion they do it's headline news.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HDlaw enforcement without a gun??? No way on God's planet would I consider that. I carried three. I am here because I did. English cops without guns??? I can imagine nothing dumber. I really mean that--nothing dumber.

[wyliec]

This is quite a floorboard! Made by http://convictcustomcycles.com/ (http://convictcustomcycles.com/)

85447
That's pretty cool; but, from what I see/read on spyderlovers there are quite a few people that would find it difficult to bend that far.:dontknow:

[Dan McNally]

That's pretty cool; but, from what I see/read on spyderlovers there are quite a few people that would find it difficult to bend that far.:dontknow:
:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflb lack:

[Bob Denman]

law enforcement without a gun??? No way on God's planet would I consider that. I carried three. I am here because I did. English cops without guns??? I can imagine nothing dumber. I really mean that--nothing dumber.

:shocked: Let's be a bit careful...
It's a different society... please don't try to judge them by OUR yardsticks; they've got their own. :thumbup:

[wyliec]

The Swedish Bikini Team??? :D

I lean more toward the athletic type:

http://www.rantsports.com/clubhouse/2013/02/10/30-of-the-hottest-womens-beach-volleyball-players-on-the-planet/

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: It made me sweat; just LOOKING at them! :D

[Dan_Ashley]

:shocked: Let's be a bit careful...
It's a different society... please don't try to judge them by OUR yardsticks; they've got their own. :thumbup:
Maybe I spent too much time on a skid row foot beat.

[Dan_Ashley]

Not really,

The drug dealers and gangs with guns has been growing in the UK. It's not like they have no armed personnel there. Their police force is generally viewed as uniformed citizens. They have no training in fire arms, so indeed it's a different society. There are plenty of debates in the UK regarding what to do with their growing drug/gang/crime problem, but for the most part, it remains a debate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I used to believe, not based on any schooling, but only on what I saw, that gang members understand only the pain term in the psychological pain pleasure theory of human motivation.

[Fat Crip]

law enforcement without a gun??? No way on God's planet would I consider that. I carried three. I am here because I did. English cops without guns??? I can imagine nothing dumber. I really mean that--nothing dumber.

Dan, your missing the point. If simply carrying a gun will get you five years and the police don't carry guns why would any criminal go to the considerable trouble and huge expense of getting a gun? The minute you arm the police the criminal needs to carry, so the cop needs a bigger gun (or three), so the criminal wants a machine gun etc., etc. You just start an arms race.

In the last ten years we have only had one incident of a fatal shooting of the police and even then they wouldn't have stood a chance, guns or not.

The uk police don't want guns and generally resent the odd occasions when they do have to carry them.

The US clearly does not have the luxury of choice here. With more guns per head of population than just about anywhere and a similarly disastrous incidence of fatal shootings it is no wonder that every Tom, Dick or Harry with enough cash feels the need to have a gun!

I've always wanted to visit your country, but this discussion has put me off rather. A policeman shoots an unarmed drunk in Walmart and gets praised for doing his duty? A victim of a mass shooting by a madman with an assault rifle thinks the answer is more guns not less? You can't ride a motorcycle without packing a piece and you don't think there's anything wrong with that? Sure, you've crossed the Rubicon, you can't put the genie back in the bottle, but surely you can't be proud of what you're second amendment has created? Let alone call us sums for living in a country where the risk of getting shot by a criminal or a police officer is practically zero?

Oh and I don't live in England! Scotland is next door to England and both are constituent parts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[SNOOPY]

Funny you say you have a fear of coming to the US because of stories you hear, I feel the same way about Europe. There is no way I would ever visit Europe as an American because of all the violence that I hear that goes on there. And no, you're not going to change my mind. Lol

[shelbydave]

The US clearly does not have the luxury of choice here.

Actually, it is YOU that does not have a choice. Some people on here carry, some people don't. It's their choice.

I don't carry, or even own a gun, yet I respect the rights of those who DO (legally) carry.

I will admit that there are a lot of guns in the WRONG hands over here, but I also don't think that has anything to do with the 2nd amendment. Bad people are going to do bad things. You also say that simply carrying a gun will get you 5 years, well another problem over here is that we can't make those 5 years so miserable they never want to come back, so if we had a 5 year sentence for possession of a firearm, criminals wouldn't care. They get free meals, a bed to sleep in, in many cases a room to themselves, all rent free.

It's not our 2nd amendment that is the problem, it's the justice system. There is no real punishment for crimes over here.

[Bob Denman]

Who would like some ice cream? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_76.gif
He doesn't live here; he has no background in his life that would give him the perspective that we have...
Likewise; we lack the perspective to know how his societal norms work for him...
Let's just back away from the table, and agree to disagree... :thumbup:

And in case anybody wants to forget MY perspective... 85492 If I can live and let live; the rest of you should be able to manage it as well. :thumbup:

[vrodrjs]

Wait a minute, are you saying that the media tells you what they want you to hear in an effort to help form your opinion? Next thing you are gonna say is that everything you read on the internet isn't true.

[Bob Denman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bufTna0WArc

[Fat Crip]

It's clear that my perspective of the US is that of an outsider, but I'm not sure anybody would deny the obvious facts that in the US there are more guns, more shootings and more gun deaths per head of population than almost anywhere in the world, where as the opposite is true in the UK, despite the fact that police are most often unarmed.

From my own perspective, despite living in a variety of parts of the UK both rural and urban, I have never been robbed, assaulted, burgled or victim of any crime in my 48 years. No one has ever threatened me with anything more offensive than a loud voice and I have never felt the need of any weapon for my defence from any perceived foe with the exception of serving in the Navy. We have a police force which not only remains unarmed, but whenever the subject is raised, they themselves insist on maintaining the status quo.

My comments on a lack of choice in the US is based on the idea that even if I convinced every one of you that the US should ban all guns, it would be impossible to enact. There are just too many guns and no one knows who owns them. You have no "gun free cities", In a country awash with guns, you can't possibly! Here gun control began in 1920, before the time of modern weapons. As a result most guns in Britain were left over revolvers or bolt action rifles from before WWI. Now a days all automatic, semi-autos and pistols are totally banned. As a result criminals must import weapons which is difficult and expensive and therefore rare. It's one of the advantages of living on an island. The more common alternative, and usually more dangerous to the owners than their potential victims, are converted replica guns. These often look Impressive, but a Desert Eagle that is, in truth, a single shot .22 that will usually blow up within a few shots is: a pale shadow of the real thing! Even amongst the criminal classes, guns remain rare, so much so, the police don't want guns themselves.

Anyway, it works for us. We are a peaceful country where the chances of getting shot are less than one thousandth of the US. I've looked at this question with travel sites and I realise that Europeans are worried about getting shot or robbed in the US and every American is certain that they will have their pockets picked a dozen times a day. It hasn't happened to me yet and I travel in the UK and Europe all the time and as a wheelchair user, I'd be an easy target.

Breaking news... someone has been shot in the UK! A girl was shot on a very rough social housing estate in Hackney in London this week. The first this year and so rare that it made the national news all day as a result! So far in the US (using recent years stats) the number will be well passed 2,500 which, given you population is only five times that of the UK, is appalling! Does any single shooting ever make the National News in the US?

Snoopy, I'll give you my personal guarantee that if you were to come to the UK you will be safer than you are in your own home!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Fat Crip]

Funny you say you have a fear of coming to the US because of stories you hear, I feel the same way about Europe. There is no way I would ever visit Europe as an American because of all the violence that I hear that goes on there. And no, you're not going to change my mind. Lol

I don't 'fear' the US, I just said that the chat here was putting me off. If many of you fear going out without a gun in your belt, what am I supposed to think?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Fat Crip]

Who would like some ice cream? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_76.gif
He doesn't live here; he has no background in his life that would give him the perspective that we have...
Likewise; we lack the perspective to know how his societal norms work for him...
Let's just back away from the table, and agree to disagree... :thumbup:

And in case anybody wants to forget MY perspective... 85492 If I can live and let live; the rest of you should be able to manage it as well. :thumbup:

I'd love a ice-cream thank you and maybe if I ever come to the states you could let me see your guns as I do miss shooting - I haven't shot any proper guns since leaving the Navy in the early '90's - but to live in a safe country, that's a price I'm happy to pay :-)


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[bruiser]

I lived in the UK for three years during the time of IRA bombings and shootings. In those three years I only saw two armed officers and they were just outside Buckingham Palace. Granted, I lived in a small town, but visited London on several occasions and some other mid sized cities. I never felt safer. The Bobbies were friendly, courteous and helpful. And they seemed to be everywhere. I was stopped coming home from work about 2:00 one morning. Mind you, I was driving my "yank tank" Ford pickup. The two Bobbies were more curious about my "lorry" than anything else, but wanted to know why I was out that time of the morning. There was one local Bobby that walked the beat in town. An older gentleman (at that time), he was full of funny stories. There was drug activity in town. The dentist office right next to our flat was broken into one night.

I got stopped another time coming home around midnight. There was construction on our street and temporary stop lights were put up. I was in a bad mood and just wanted to get home. I ran the light. As soon as I did, i got lit up. When I got out of the truck the first thing the Bobby said was " I'm sorry to inconvenience you sir". He was very nice and in fact, his demeanor calmed me down. They don't issue tickets directly. They file a report and then it's up to the chief officer of that area to issue the citation by mail. I didn't receive a citation because the officer that stopped me included in his report that I was cooperative, had had a bad night at work, and there was no traffic at that time. You won't get that from cops here in the good old US of A.


Bottom line, yeah, there was crime, muggings, drugs, gangs, but we still felt safe. Even in the "gritty" parts of London. I respect Fat Crips comments. I don't agree with his point of not visiting here because of this thread. I would say, give us a chance. It's not as bad as it's made out to be.

I might also add, I don't carry every time I walk out the door.

[shelbydave]

...In many states, you actually have a better chance of being killed by a vehicle than a gun... It's all in perspective.. I don't think most people who carry do it to feel "safe", they do it because they can, and they are used to it. Just like brushing your teeth in the morning... I don't feel any less safe because I don't carry, however, there are some parts of towns that I will NOT ride through. In my travels, that accounts for probably less than 1% of my total.

I DO however feel less safe riding down some stretches of interstate, and sometimes that accounts for >50% of my travels where I need to re-route in order to avoid that stretch of highway.

[Bob Denman]

I'd love a ice-cream thank you and maybe if I ever come to the states you could let me see your guns as I do miss shooting - I haven't shot any proper guns since leaving the Navy in the early '90's - but to live in a safe country, that's a price I'm happy to pay :-)

A question: Do they have any sort of "Public Shooting Ranges" available? :dontknow:

And if they do; can you rent, or be loaned, a firearm during your visit to the place?

[bruiser]

When I was there, they had skeet ranges and I remember a hunting area in one of the towns close to ours. Most long guns the locals owned were shotguns. We were not allowed to take our handguns with us, long guns had to have the barrels leaded if they were not shotguns. If memory is right (memory?) we had to register our shotguns if we lived off base. Every base had a skeet range and there were competitions between bases. Some bases had archery ranges too.

[Bob Denman]

Did you ever shoot skeet like THIS??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vho5eTabWQI

:2thumbs:

[wyliec]

Wyliec,

Sorry I got out of line. I gave myself the ban hammer, so no one else would have to. :(


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Thanks,

But, I instigated you further. I also take responsibility.

[Bob Denman]

Time for a Group Hug! :2thumbs:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_18_103.gif

[Dan_Ashley]

Dan, your missing the point. If simply carrying a gun will get you five years and the police don't carry guns why would any criminal go to the considerable trouble and huge expense of getting a gun? The minute you arm the police the criminal needs to carry, so the cop needs a bigger gun (or three), so the criminal wants a machine gun etc., etc. You just start an arms race.

In the last ten years we have only had one incident of a fatal shooting of the police and even then they wouldn't have stood a chance, guns or not.

The uk police don't want guns and generally resent the odd occasions when they do have to carry them.

The US clearly does not have the luxury of choice here. With more guns per head of population than just about anywhere and a similarly disastrous incidence of fatal shootings it is no wonder that every Tom, Dick or Harry with enough cash feels the need to have a gun!

I've always wanted to visit your country, but this discussion has put me off rather. A policeman shoots an unarmed drunk in Walmart and gets praised for doing his duty? A victim of a mass shooting by a madman with an assault rifle thinks the answer is more guns not less? You can't ride a motorcycle without packing a piece and you don't think there's anything wrong with that? Sure, you've crossed the Rubicon, you can't put the genie back in the bottle, but surely you can't be proud of what you're second amendment has created? Let alone call us sums for living in a country where the risk of getting shot by a criminal or a police officer is practically zero?

Oh and I don't live in England! Scotland is next door to England and both are constituent parts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
I don't own any guns. Gun ownership helps prevent totalitarian governments though.

[Sarge707]

A question: Do they have any sort of "Public Shooting Ranges" available? :dontknow:

And if they do; can you rent, or be loaned, a firearm during your visit to the place?

I doubt very much that Ranges where you have to pay to shoot a weapon (Gun) whose sole purpose is to Kill things would be the First thing people in the UK would be Stupid enough to Pay Hard Earned $$$ to do?:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:nojoke

[Bob Denman]

Just a thought... :dontknow:
Some folks; myself included, just enjoy target practice! :thumbup:

"Gun) whose sole purpose is to Kill things"...
:shocked: Wow... get a grip...
How much experience with firearms; do you even have?

[shelbydave]

Just a thought... :dontknow:
Some folks; myself included, just enjoy target practice! :thumbup:

"Gun) whose sole purpose is to Kill things"...
:shocked: Wow... get a grip...
How much experience with firearms; do you even have?

In his defense, they weren't invented / developed for target practice originally...

Not taking sides, just putting out the facts.

[Bob Denman]

I know...
But it's a very pleasant pasttime; not unlike bowling, but without the funny shoes!
The purpose: to hit a specific spot on a target.
Bowling; but with louder noises! :D
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/513v.gif

[Sarge707]

Just a thought... :dontknow:
Some folks; myself included, just enjoy target practice! :thumbup:

"Gun) whose sole purpose is to Kill things"...
:shocked: Wow... get a grip...
How much experience with firearms; do you even have?

I was an Advanced Infantry Drill Sergeant in the seventies and taught Patrolling, Ambushes and Escape and Evasion as my main subjects. Also ran my Guard Units Range Qualification as NCOIC and was responsible for an Armory Full of Weapons for 22 Years.nojoke

Besides having a 22 Rifle for home defense My Least favorite things to do are Walk in the Woods and Shoot a Weapon?:hun:

[Bob Denman]

Military usage of firearms is vastly different than law enforcement, or even civilian usages.
You have let that background; color your perceptions to an unwarranted degree.
But still; Thanks for serving! :thumbup:

[bruiser]

Did you ever shoot skeet like THIS??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vho5eTabWQI

:2thumbs:

No. But I stayed in a Holiday Inn. :roflblack:

[Dan_Ashley]

Military usage of firearms is vastly different than law enforcement, or even civilian usages.
You have let that background; color your perceptions to an unwarranted degree.
But still; Thanks for serving! :thumbup: It is an interesting fact of societies, that those who refuse to kill, and also refuse to recognize the importance of being prepared, are the very same ones who hire others to kill for them. Our species is sadly prone to violence.

[bruiser]

Blame it all on the Chinese. They invented gunpowder and consequently, the earliest gunpowder weapons.

[Bob Denman]

Curiously enough; for a while, the British were laying claim to that invention as well... :D

[Dan_Ashley]

Blame it all on the Chinese. They invented gunpowder and consequently, the earliest gunpowder weapons.
Um....Al Gore invented the internet. Does he get blame for cyber crime?

[bruiser]

Interestingly, the use of gunpowder and gunpowder charged weapons spread from China through the Middle East then to Europe. It's first use in England was thought to be around the mid 1200s (13th. century). That's about as much history I can remember without reverting to looking up facts. Not bad for an old man.

[Bob Denman]

...Just before the onset of the Rennaissance; where art, beauty, science, and culture thrived! :thumbup:

[shelbydave]

Interestingly, the use of gunpowder and gunpowder charged weapons spread from China through the Middle East then to Europe. It's first use in England was thought to be around the mid 1200s (13th. century). That's about as much history I can remember without reverting to looking up facts. Not bad for an old man.


Been around a while? My memory only goes back to the '60s... :joke::joke:

[Dan_Ashley]

Been around a while? My memory only goes back to the '60s... :joke::joke:
That's better than my memory. Mine only goes back to breakfast...oh...wait.

[crazyspyder]

:gaah: it's the nature of MAN- BTW Neanderthal invented the ole spark by accident while making music with two ole rocks ....who knew?:roflblack: :dontknow::roflblack: the first crime came afterwards.....:roflblack::roflblack:

[Bob Denman]

Been around a while? My memory only goes back to the '60s... :joke::joke:

That's far enough... :2thumbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsJ9K7lUteQ

[Cavman]

I plan to go to a range on Thursday at SpyderFest for some target practice. :yes:

[Bob Denman]

Cool! :2thumbs:
What are you bringing along? :D

[Cavman]

The week before SpyderFest I will have just completed the 4 Day Defensive Handgun Course at Front Sight in Pahrump, NV. So Bob, I would have some Glocks with me. There is a range at the Lead Mine State Forest NNE of Springfield. 'Threefeet' and I shot at another range last year at SF.
Anyone an join me.

I'm just hoping I have a Spyder to ride at SpyderFest?

[Bob Denman]

I like Glocks; They just don't fit my hand well... I can't shoot them worth a spit! :gaah:
Now my Missus; she had a Glock 19 with the night sights on it... :thumbup:
We were invited to a Police Combat shoot... (B-27 targets at 12 yards and beyond...)
We watched the LEOs step up, and empty their 17s (the fullsize version), onto the targets at 12 yards... :shocked:
Most of them were having trouble hitting the ground with their hats! :banghead:
One fellow was particularly proud of keeping all 18 on the target... from elbow to elbow!
She stepped up, and put all 15: K-5! :clap::thumbup::firstplace:
They looked at her as if she were a freak...
Her response...
"You guys HAVE to shoot; I LIKE to shoot!"
I have to work pretty hard with my Ruger P-85, or my 1911 to keep ahead of her...

[Cavman]

I have taken the course before and have trained with over 90 LEOs. They don't get very good training.
As your wife said, she likes to shoot.

Several years ago in the city of Atlanta, they had over 65 cops that could NOT qualify on the range. How sad is that?

[Bob Denman]

You would think that they'd take their firearms training seriously; it could certainly save their lives! :shocked:
Sadly; they don't seem to! :gaah:

[Netminder]

You would think that they'd take their firearms training seriously; it could certainly save their lives! :shocked:
Sadly; they don't seem to! :gaah:
As well as other lives!!:thumbup:

[bruiser]

Like everything else, it comes down to budgets. Ammo costs money and in order to keep every officer proficient it takes a large amount of money. Plus they would have to pay the officer for his time on the range and weapons care afterwards. Officers would have to have range time for all weapons including rifles and shotguns. And we all know that Homeland is buying up all the ammo.

[Bob Denman]

Thanks Goodness, that at least WE know the importance of remaining proficient! :D :2thumbs:

[SNOOPY]

I'd like to take some deeper training classes, at least to get more insight, instead of just being another dude w/ a weapon. Just need motivation I guess. :dontknow:

[Bob Denman]

Waiting for motivation, is like waiting for a freight train... By the time you see it; you've already missed it! :shocked: nojoke

[SNOOPY]

I know, I just don't think about it. Just gotta do it...maybe make a post it note... lol

[Bob Denman]

You know something; things are never quite as "hunky dory", as we're ever told...
Why not let this part of the discussion drop? He'll just throw up any number of news articles about shooting and violence over here...
..and somebody will insult somebody else...
... and we're back in the middle of a pissing match! :gaah:

[Bob Denman]

Thanks! :thumbup:

[Fat Crip]

Apparently, things in the UK aren't as hunky dory as we've been told. Pretty interesting article. Especially the comments.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9553111/Do-we-really-want-to-arm-our-police.html



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Yes that's the sole incident of any police being shot in living memory that I referenced in my comment. One incident in my life time and though it raised the debate again, still the UK police prefer not to be armed. The two girls killed were good friends of my Buell mechanic in Manchester. Sadly they were murdered whilst they were attending a routine incident by a psychopath intent on killing a police officer. Being armed wouldn't have helped them. Being such a unique case the whole country talked about it for months.


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[bruiser]

I find throwing some lead down range to be therapeutic.

[reverendg]

I find throwing some lead down range to be therapeutic.

So do I, the wife noticed that some years back. On a cloudy Saturday morning she saw me looking at the sky and said "You're going shooting". When I hesitated a moment she clarified with "It wasn't a question, you have had a long week and are acting crabby. A morning out shooting always improves your attitude. GO!"

Last summer she learned how nice it is to take a Spyder ride out to the range and throw some lead downrange. She is still getting used to handgun shooting. A snub .357 is a bit much, but she works it with 38 specials in it. My Mark II Target 22 seems to have been appropriated by her, which works well, since it has her getting the fundamentals down. She has her own 9mm now as well, and sees a day at the range as therapeutic. Even more so when we take the long way home on the Spyder, out in farm country or along the lake.

[vrodrjs]

I find throwing some lead down range to be therapeutic.

There is a range 10 minutes from the office. After a tough morning at the office I like to go to the range for lunch. Nothing like it to lower the blood pressure.

[Bob Denman]

:agree: :2thumbs: