buffeting by wind

[bassman]

I had my laser alignment today on my new 2013 RTS SM 5. When the technician put the laser on it he said it was dialed in right. On the way home from Winston Salem to Myrtle Beach it still was weaving and dancing. I talked to an active Spyder Lover at the dealership who was having his first service on his new 2014 RTS. He had the vented windshield and Baker Wings. Are there any other solutions to wind buffeting? I know the Spyder has a large front but so do big Harleys and Goldwings. I owned a 2001 Harley Electra Glide. I rode in 30- 40 MPH winds and never felt like I do on my Spyder. This morning at 4:30 AM when I left Myrtle Beach it was calm and few cars were on the road. I even thought about not having the alignment but when I got to I 40 the sun was up and there were many cars and big trucks on the road. Passing 18 wheelers or riding behind them made me feel like I was going to tip over. I am on a limited budget after spending 1100.00 at the dealer today. Which, vented windshield or Baker Wings, do you recommend and why? I had Baker Wings on my 1998 Concours and felt like they did not help much. After adding a vented Rifle windshield it was better. Please help this newbie!

[Jeriatric]

Could be you just need to loosen your grip. Relax and let the wind move you, but don't let that movement become input at the bars. jm2c

[DJFaninTN]

Baja Ron Sway Bar …. really helps:yes:

[bassman]

Baja Ron Sway Bar …. really helps:yes:

How does a sway bar help buffeting? I just do not understand that? I have relaxed my grip. Alignment is spot on. I put the windshield in every position. This morning with no wind and no cars on the road was fine. Am I going to have to ride only at night?

[SpyderAnn01]

I agree, loosen the grip and get a BajaRon Sway Bar. Also, you might want to lower the windshield. I have found that if the windshield is all the way up you get quite a bit of buffeting

[bassman]

I do not understand how a sway bar helps wind buffeting. I had the alignment. I relaxed my grip. Even rode with one hand. This morning with no wind and few cars was fine. Am I going to have to ride only at night?

[Jeriatric]

Am I going to have to ride only at night?

That wouldn't work here. All to often it blows around the clock :joke:

Some movement in windy conditions is to be expected. As is, a little movement when approaching a truck, motorhome, or other large vehicle.

How many miles have you logged on a spyder. It may be that it's still a little new to you. If, you are convinced that's not it. See your dealer.

[DJFaninTN]

I am sure someone will come along and explain it better than me. All I know is I had the sway bar installed last weekend. Before that if I got behind a truck on the interstate I'd be blown all over the road. I jumped on the interstate today and the bike was as steady as you'd want it to be and the wind was blowing about 20mph and I was running 70mph. :clap:

My front end was just like yours. It was almost perfect so I did not have to have anything to mess with on that end.

[bassman]

I rode 400 miles today. That puts me a little over 1 thousand miles on the Spyder. Most of today's miles were on Interstates. I mainly rode 72 MPH with the cruise on. If I get a sway bar could I put it on with limited mechanical skills? By the way I got my first motorcycle when I was 15- a Honda MT 250 dirt- street bike. It was one of the first 2 strokes Honda sent to the USA. You could ride on the road back then at 15. Have had various bikes thru the years and have ridden several friends bikes including Goldwings and big Beemers. Tried out a 2006 BMW RT 1100 in 1998. Dealer would not get right on a 2 year old new bike. This was the smoothest bike I have ever ridden. Bought the 1998 Concours without riding it first. Worst bike I have ever owned. I will figure the Spyder out. Just frustrated.

[Jeriatric]

Understand your frustration and that this isn't your first rodeo. Tho, it is your first spyder, and that's all I meant. It is different. The best advice I can offer is give it some time. The ron bar is not a diificult install and comes with ver good instructions...from all I have read. I do not hsve one myself....may, one day tho.

[SMAUG]

did you check the tire air pressure?
Is it set to spec in your owner's guide?

[bassman]

did you check the tire air pressure?
Is it set to spec in your owner's guide?

Dealer did check tire pressure today. Was off a little and he adjusted. My issue is wind buffeting. Do all Spyders react the same to a little wind? Big trucks?

[Cruzr Joe]

did you check the tire air pressure?
Is it set to spec in your owner's guide?


Try different front tire pressures 16, 18, 20, and see which one feels better to you. believe me the difference between 16 and 20 is huge. This is a test that will cost you no money and may improve your ride, and be sure that both front tires are at the same pressure. If this doe's not help you have lost nothing but 30 minutes of your time. :thumbup:

Cruzr Joe

[Dan_Ashley]

I had the same problem.
Sway bar helped.
Windshield down helped.
Relaxing grip helped.
Learning how the Spyder reacts to me and the environment helped.

I don't know why. But all of the above made me a happy guy--except today when the wind was 55 to 60 MPH. Just too much...I saw a truck fall over today.

[chuck gross]

One thing that I have noticed that helps as strange as it may seem is keeping the engine at the proper power band/rpm 5k to 6k is really the sweet spot for the Rotax engine if you are cruising on the highway or freeway at 70 mph you should still be in 4th gear I have found this really helps to stabilize the spyder and power right through any wind buffeting and this is the proper way to run the Rotax motor there are quite a few posts about how to run and shift the Rotax properly enough about that.
The other thing to do is adjust the shocks to the stiffest setting I am assuming the 2013 has the adjustable shocks like the 2011 RT you must first jack up the front end and get the wheels off the ground to do this adjustment.
And I agree with the previous post put the windshield all the way down unless you are in a big rainstorm or bug infested country roads you should be looking over the top of the windshield.
If none of the above suggestions help get the Baja Ron sway bar.
My wife rides an RT and I ryde an STL and I have noticed quite a bit less wind buffeting on my ST as it sits lower has a smaller front end and smaller windshield as well.

hope this helps and relax and enjoy the ryde:ohyea:

[bassman]

I just do not understand why Spyders are so affected by wind. I am no engineer by my Chevy Z 71 is taller, wider, has a bigger front engine, etc. I know it weighs more but the Spyder and a Harley are in the same league weight wise! Maybe I need to get me another Harley. I wanted a Spyder due to a broken ankle in an accident 4 years ago. It is fun to ride around town and it sure brings a lot of attention. Went to a high school soccer match last night and everyone who came in commented how neat it was. There was no demo to ride. I rode it in the parking lot before signing the paperwork. Not the same.

[bikeguy]

Hey, bassman, it took me more than 1,000 miles to really get used to riding the Spyder. It reacts so much differently than a 2-wheeler that the more 2 wheel experience you have sometimes makes it even harder to get used to it. I had test ridden a couple of different Spyders but the wind wasn't blowing when I did. Took delivery on my 2010 RT and left the dealers looking forward to my 40 mile ride home. Got on a 4-lane with not much more than a 10 mph crosswind and immediately thought I had made the worst mistake of my life. I literally could hardly keep it in my own lane. A motorcycle that can't be ridden in the wind is completely useless in west Texas. It was terrible. Now, I knew from reading Spyderlovers that I had to have a loose grip on the bars but, believe me, the fact that your brain knows it, don't mean that your body will do it. There is just too much ingrained 2-wheeler muscle memory to overcome in a few miles. I won't go through all the process I went through to get to the point that I could ride it happily. I'll just say that my RT went from being the worst thing I've ever ridden in the wind to being the best thing. Later, I added a BajaRon sway bar which helped straight line stability as well as drastically reducing body roll in corners. By the way, I still ride a 2-wheeler also and, now, it's no problem at all to go back and forth from two wheels to three. Don't give up on the Spyder.

Cotton

[Dan_Ashley]

I just do not understand why Spyders are so affected by wind. I am no engineer by my Chevy Z 71 is taller, wider, has a bigger front engine, etc. I know it weighs more but the Spyder and a Harley are in the same league weight wise! Maybe I need to get me another Harley. I wanted a Spyder due to a broken ankle in an accident 4 years ago. It is fun to ride around town and it sure brings a lot of attention. Went to a high school soccer match last night and everyone who came in commented how neat it was. There was no demo to ride. I rode it in the parking lot before signing the paperwork. Not the same.
Not the same. Fun. Different. Wind grabs it more than some other vehicles. You will eventually adjust to this.

On a Spyder, You can't high side or low side crash. Chicks dig it. I rode a varityy of motorcycles for about 4 decades. The Spyder is not the same as a two wheeler. It is fun. It is a gas. I love it. I think attempting to replicate a two wheeler with a Spyder is going to disappoint. Just like trying to replicate the feeling of eating a taco by eating a hamburger. Both are good. They just are not the same.

My my biggest complaint about the Spyder is that I need a 12 volt plug in the glove compartment, and the ambient air temp is always wrong....get that: complaining about accessory outlets and a thermometer ON A MOTORCYCLE! I am such a dweeb.

[LLSailor]

but changing the preload on the shocks and time have made most Kansas winds and trucks very manageable.

[SPYD1]

All great suggestions!

[bassman]

I am married and committed to the Spyder. I will give it a while. I paid cash from my insurance check from a motorcycle crash 4 years ago. Just got the money in January. Of course we did not get enough for all the bills as the 17 year old who was text messaging when she hit my son head on at 52 MPH had the state minimum insurance in SC- 100000. Five people were injured with medical bills totaling over half a million. God was with us as we all lived but my son has permanent nerve damage in both arms and both hands. I will walk the rest of my life with a limp as I broke my ankle and the bones were sticking out of my ankle. But as I said, we could be dead. I am thankful for that. My son's wife had our first grandkid, a girl, in December. She is precious.

[Jeriatric]

My first ride was out of La. across Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and half way into Ca.(about 1600 miles worth - in 2 days - that includes picking up a trailer and having a hitch system installed in Az.) on a totally stock RT. Which I sat two inches to forward on and another two inches too low on. In wind, truck traffic and other normal riding conditions. It was a blast. That said, sometimes we all make a mistake and get something we simply can't or do not want to get used to. :doorag:

[Dan_Ashley]

I am married and committed to the Spyder. I will give it a while. I paid cash from my insurance check from a motorcycle crash 4 years ago. Just got the money in January. Of course we did not get enough for all the bills as the 17 year old who was testing messaging when she hit my son head on at 52 MPH had the state minimum insurance in SC- 100000. Five people were injured with medical bills totaling over half a million. God was with us as we all lived but my son has permanent nerve damage in both arms and both hands. I will walk the rest of my life with a limp as I broke my ankle and the bones were sticking out of my ankle. But as I said, we could be dead. I am thankful for that. My son's wife had our first grandkid, a girl, in December. She is precious.
I am glad you are continuing to heal. I got hurt as LEO in 1978. It took 11 years to heal, but I did not stop my life during that time. So, for one who's been there, I say, there can not be enough money to pay for the damage to lives. It is up to each of us to decide to live a good life and to not curl up. I had to make this decision new every day. So, I truly hope for the best for you.

[Bob Denman]

bassman,
Give this a try...
pull your knees in against the "tank", and use them to steady yourself up on top of the bike.
Why?
Think of yourself as a big "Sail" up on top... You're getting hit by the same crosswinds as the bike.
As you get hit; you tighten your grip on the bars, and are adding little steering "inputs"...
That might be what's got your bike jumping around like a toad on a hotplate.

tighten your knees, and loosen your grip... :thumbup:

[Oklahoma Spyder]

The 2013 does not have adjustable front shocks. But you must put 20 pounds in front tires to get a good assessment. And on the 2013 the Baha Ron sway bar and links really does help!!. The 2014 has stiffer shocks and performs pretty well without the ron bar, so any 13 owner replacing shocks should consider getting the 2014 shocks for the replacement.

[spyder-dude]

Yes I forgot to mention in the message reply that the sway bar does help with this as well. When I rode down to Lamonts for the front end alignment we did get a lot of buffeting. When I was there BajaRon installed his sway bar and the way home was more windy but the spyder did handle a lot better between the alignment and sway bar. I have had an improved sway bar on my GS and RSS and noticed improvements with them as well.

[SpyderAnn01]

Some of the 2013s had bad shocks from the factory. Make sure that your is not one of them. My 2013 had bad shocks and it was all over the place in the wind. After the shocks were replaced that was no longer an issue. Mine would nose dive then veer when hit by a big gust.

[Bob Denman]

I would have guessed that bad shocks would have been caught during the alignment process... :opps:
Great Catch! :clap: :2thumbs:

[Ronbo]

The 2013 does not have adjustable front shocks. But you must put 20 pounds in front tires to get a good assessment. And on the 2013 the Baha Ron sway bar and links really does help!!. The 2014 has stiffer shocks and performs pretty well without the ron bar, so any 13 owner replacing shocks should consider getting the 2014 shocks for the replacement.

Maybe that's what it was! I had a 2013 that I loved, but I was extremely uncomfortable on the freeway. It was twitchy. I avoided freeway. My 2014 is solid as a rock! So the stiffer shocks may be it!...". Also, the initial set up and laser alignment by Pitbull and Lamont didn't hurt any!
Ron

[Dan McNally]

Baja Ron's sway bar is stiffer than the one that came as original equipment on your Spyder. It helps reduce buffeting by stiffening the suspension against side to side movement.

[Dan_Ashley]

Just a thought...this works for me...if I wear ear plugs, the wind buffeting of my head feels less.

[finless]

I will just add my .3 cents.

You have to learn to ride through the buffeting!

When I got my Spyder I had to ride it home in strong winds. So I got to learn the hard way about the wind buffets.

Read this if you care to:

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?54155-First-test-drive-first-impressions&p=643924&viewfull=1#post643924


Bottom line let the Spyder ride through them! Your not going to go anywhere unexpected. The initial reaction when the Spyder gets a buffet is for YOU to try and correct. DON'T! It makes you have the "death grip" which is not good on a Spyder and makes things worse.

You will soon find the buffets move you around a little but almost hands off, it will not go somewhere you don't want. Just let it happen and relax.

The biggest complaint for me on buffeting is when the windshield is all the way up. Then you get a "lurching" type of buffet. Like your speeding up and slowing down. I do not like that myself so that is why most the time I leave the windshield down. I even added the vented windshield thinking that would help with the lurching. It helped a little but it's still a problem I do not like.

Anyway, it's just a matter of getting use to your spyder and how it reacts. Calm down, relax the grip, and you will soon see the buffeting is something you will get use to.

No 2 wheeler I ever road had as much buffeting as the Spyder. But again... once you understand your not going to go anywhere unexpected, you learn to "ride through it".

Bob

[OldCowboy]

:agree: Also, a two wheeler has gyroscopic stability that the :spyder2: doesn't have. As the wind tries to push a two-wheeler around, it naturally fights against the wind push. Not so the :spyder2:. Also, the cross-sectional area on the side of a :spyder2: is larger than most 2 wheelers.

[jaherbst]

but changing the preload on the shocks and time have made most Kansas winds and trucks very manageable.

No pre-load on 13 and later. It takes about 300-500 miles to get used to the Spyder and for the Syder to get used to you. After this new parts begin to settle in. 4000-5000 RPM in any gear seems to help.
Xwinds will always present some problems. It is the nature of the best.

[Can-Am Poogs]

Dealer did check tire pressure today. Was off a little and he adjusted. My issue is wind buffeting. Do all Spyders react the same to a little wind? Big trucks?

I log a lot of time on the Trans Canada highway all the time on my Spyder in and around big rigs. I also drive semi truck as a second job, more for fun or as a hobby. I can't drive my Spyder in the winter months so driving truck is the next best relaxing thing, and I get paid to drive the truck. If you hang around the turbulent air of a truck at the rear of a semi, you are going to get blown around a bit, and almost always get some buffeting. And you don't have to be very close to the back of it to feel the effect and you don't even have to be in the same lane. You would have to be unsafely close to the back of the trailer not to feel it and to get sucked into the back of it, kind of like drafting in Nascar. The air is also very turbulent from the front of the tractor to the king pin when you are trying to pass by. You really have to hang on. Most of my highway driving is open prairie, so on windy days and even not so windy days you get blown around a bit, it doesn't matter how you relax your grip you get some movement. The effects of buffeting is easily remedied by adjusting the windshield.


Don't get me wrong, if your bike is always wondering all over the place, you got a problem. For the most part I find myself one hand driving in the city.

[retread]

One thing that may have been missed; the front tires NEED to be as close in pressure as possible, if one is softer than the other, it'll wallow.

john

[BajaRon]

The surface area that has the greatest affect on your Spyder in a cross wind is your body. Total surface area may be less, but your biggest mass is very high and has a great deal of leverage. It is only natural to try and stabilize your upper body with the handlebars. This will help to keep you stable, but will drive your Spyder crazy. Better to let your upper body blow around a little and allow your Spyder to go straight.

The steering on a Spyder is VERY sensitive to any input (intended or not). As your body gets blown around, your movement can be transmitted down your arms to the handlebars. Even small input will be instantly transmitted to the wheels. So naturally you attempt to correct for this while you're being buffeted. It sets up a vicious cycle that you can't win. You have to become complete rubber between your shoulders and your wrists so that no matter how much your body is jerked around by the wind, no body movement makes it to the handlebars. Once you get used to this, it's no big deal.

Typically, as the rider perceives that they are not in complete control, they stiffen their body in an attempt to 'Lock' the handlebars straight ahead. Most do this without even realizing it. Doing this simply makes things worse. Everything feels mushy and vague. You're not sure how to get control and you're pretty much hating life. It takes a conscious effort to train yourself to relax.

Sway Bar Upgrade - When you and the Spyder experience side forces of a cross wind, or buffeting when passing large trucks at freeway speeds, it leans the Spyder over, or, in some situations, may rock it back and forth. With a stock sway bar there is little resistance to this effect. As the Spyder moves around on its suspension, the steering geometry changes which will change the direction of travel.

In a corner or curve, this force is predictable and usually consistent. Though you may still oscillate through an Under-steer/Over-steer experience through the curve. It's not the same feeling as buffeting.

Again, this is perceived by the driver as a lack of control and tends to set up the vicious cycle of correction discussed above. As you make correction you again change the steering geometry and things do not improve much. You usually find that you've over corrected and you have to then correct the correction. This can really wear you out, not to mention you get the feeling that you're not in complete control.

With the heavier sway bar, all of this side force has much less effect on the Spyder. Less lean, less steering changes, less need for correction. Your body may still be getting pushed around, but your Spyder is not. You'll find that you Spyder stays put where you want it to be and if you do want to change direction, it changes only the amount that you intended. It's a whole different experience which gives the rider confidence that they are in complete control. Most describe it as 'Being on rails'. And I think that is pretty accurate.

Hope this helps.

[Magdave]

I have found if you try to drive your car with the inner handles instead of the outer wheel it drives very much like a Spyder. Very small movement can cause the car to move around. It made me think the Spyder should have a steering wheel nojoke Try it sometime. That said the buffeting is caused by the rider IMHO as Ron explained. Better to squeeze your knees and rest your hands on the bar and let the Spyder roll it should go pretty straight if you do. It takes a while to get that feel.

[MRH]

I switched to a vented windshield from BRP to keep me cooler, but soon discovered it also helps with the buffeting. It makes a large difference for my wife, especially, who rides on the back. I ride an RT.

[finless]

Ron, right on explanation about the body buffet thing. This is what I was trying to say but you did a much better job. Just let it happen and ride through it!

MRH, I too got the vented windshield. Did not help that much for me but here in SoCal, we have winds in the afternoon consistently around 15 mph and for my work ride on the 405 freeway they are cross winds. While the vented helped I still get lurching when the windshield is up all the way. This causes my wife to bump her helmet to mine. But it did get better!
I am thinking of also cutting the holes in the lower part of the windshield like the 2014's have to help more.

Bob

[bassman]

The surface area that has the greatest affect on your Spyder in a cross wind is your body. Total surface area may be less, but your biggest mass is very high and has a great deal of leverage. It is only natural to try and stabilize your upper body with the handlebars. This will help to keep you stable, but will drive your Spyder crazy. Better to let your upper body blow around a little and allow your Spyder to go straight.

The steering on a Spyder is VERY sensitive to any input (intended or not). As your body gets blown around, your movement can be transmitted down your arms to the handlebars. Even small input will be instantly transmitted to the wheels. So naturally you attempt to correct for this while you're being buffeted. It sets up a vicious cycle that you can't win. You have to become complete rubber between your shoulders and your wrists so that no matter how much your body is jerked around by the wind, no body movement makes it to the handlebars. Once you get used to this, it's no big deal.

Typically, as the rider perceives that they are not in complete control, they stiffen their body in an attempt to 'Lock' the handlebars straight ahead. Most do this without even realizing it. Doing this simply makes things worse. Everything feels mushy and vague. You're not sure how to get control and you're pretty much hating life. It takes a conscious effort to train yourself to relax.

Sway Bar Upgrade - When you and the Spyder experience side forces of a cross wind, or buffeting when passing large trucks at freeway speeds, it leans the Spyder over, or, in some situations, may rock it back and forth. With a stock sway bar there is little resistance to this effect. As the Spyder moves around on its suspension, the steering geometry changes which will change the direction of travel.

In a corner or curve, this force is predictable and usually consistent. Though you may still oscillate through an Under-steer/Over-steer experience through the curve. It's not the same feeling as buffeting.

Again, this is perceived by the driver as a lack of control and tends to set up the vicious cycle of correction discussed above. As you make correction you again change the steering geometry and things do not improve much. You usually find that you've over corrected and you have to then correct the correction. This can really wear you out, not to mention you get the feeling that you're not in complete control.

With the heavier sway bar, all of this side force has much less effect on the Spyder. Less lean, less steering changes, less need for correction. Your body may still be getting pushed around, but your Spyder is not. You'll find that you Spyder stays put where you want it to be and if you do want to change direction, it changes only the amount that you intended. It's a whole different experience which gives the rider confidence that they are in complete control. Most describe it as 'Being on rails'. And I think that is pretty accurate.

Hope this helps.


Thanks Ron. This makes sense. I have tried relaxing as much as possible. Do you have any plans to come to the Spyder event in Myrtle Beach, SC I believe in April? If so how much would one of your stablizer bars cost installed? Jim

[Sarge707]

Adjust your air pressure to 18-19 Front- 28 Rear and adjust shocks to level Five!!!
Report Back with results!!nojoke