Need help before going back to Dealership today on Bluetooth Communication System....

[jterrymaddux]

Hey fellow Spyder Lovers....My wife and I both have the RT Limited Roadsters....One of them is having the Bluetooth Dongle for audio system installed this morning to use with a Bluetooth Communication System Dual pak for both machines....They tell me that it requires (2) Bluetooth Dongles...one for each bike. In the accessory catalog it reads that the dongle will dual stream to 2 Bluetooth headsets at the same time....So, do I need the Bluetooth Dongle part no. 219400458 installed on one machine or both machines???? Most of the time we will be riding separately on each bike. Up at 4 am this morning already anticipating picking up this bike today. LOL not been this excited in along time about a new toy....Thanks for your help once again

[jcthorne]

If you will be riding separate bikes, you will need a dongle on each for each rider to listen to music on that respective bike.

One dongle can stream to 2 headsets on one bike with both listening to the same program but only for a distance of 30 ft or so. Sounds like you need the dongle on both bikes.

I would however NOT have the dongle installed in the front trunk and powered by the radio as the BRP kit does. You will have to re-pair the helmet to the dongle every time you ride. A PIA. Also try out the dongle to the headset while at the dealer listening for ANY engine noise or whine in the music channel, IE listen with the music turned off and the channel open. If there is, have the dealer fix it. Do not accept the noisy link. The harness and installation suggested by BRP for the dongle is not well thought out.

[jterrymaddux]

If you will be riding separate bikes, you will need a dongle on each for each rider to listen to music on that respective bike.

One dongle can stream to 2 headsets on one bike with both listening to the same program but only for a distance of 30 ft or so. Sounds like you need the dongle on both bikes.

I would however NOT have the dongle installed in the front trunk and powered by the radio as the BRP kit does. You will have to re-pair the helmet to the dongle every time you ride. A PIA. Also try out the dongle to the headset while at the dealer listening for ANY engine noise or whine in the music channel, IE listen with the music turned off and the channel open. If there is, have the dealer fix it. Do not accept the noisy link. The harness and installation suggested by BRP for the dongle is not well thought out.

Thank you for your response...The 2nd dongle makes sense....I think he started the installation yesterday on the first bike so it may be in the frunk tho...Thanks for the heads up on engine noise or whine. I have already purchased both BRP kits so I will hope for the best....Thank you this morning ..JTM

[PatrickH]

Hello
jcthorne (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?13770-jcthorne)
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/statusicon/user-offline.png
First, what is PIA?

Second, and most important, if they aren't to install dongle in the front trunk, where do I tell them to install it? And will it install in that alternative location with the wiring harness that comes with the dongle? Or will they tell me that I'm asking for custom work and charge me extra or (worse yet) tell me it can't be done that way?

If you locate dongle in that alternative location does that mean I will NOT have to repair again each time I get on?

I haven't bought my Spyder yet (2014 RT LTD), but just sold my Goldwing and am looking forward to the Spyder. I am quite leery about bluetoothing everything and am nervous about not having my cables to helmets! Looking at the BRP Spyder catalog it appears they do have a wired helmet rig, but it also appears you have to have their CB in order to make the wires work?


Regards, Patrick


If you will be riding separate bikes, you will need a dongle on each for each rider to listen to music on that respective bike.

One dongle can stream to 2 headsets on one bike with both listening to the same program but only for a distance of 30 ft or so. Sounds like you need the dongle on both bikes.

I would however NOT have the dongle installed in the front trunk and powered by the radio as the BRP kit does. You will have to re-pair the helmet to the dongle every time you ride. A PIA. Also try out the dongle to the headset while at the dealer listening for ANY engine noise or whine in the music channel, IE listen with the music turned off and the channel open. If there is, have the dealer fix it. Do not accept the noisy link. The harness and installation suggested by BRP for the dongle is not well thought out.

[3 Wheel Addict]

Hello
jcthorne (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?13770-jcthorne)
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/statusicon/user-offline.png
First, what is PIA?

Second, and most important, if they aren't to install dongle in the front trunk, where do I tell them to install it? And will it install in that alternative location with the wiring harness that comes with the dongle? Or will they tell me that I'm asking for custom work and charge me extra or (worse yet) tell me it can't be done that way?

If you locate dongle in that alternative location does that mean I will NOT have to repair again each time I get on?

I haven't bought my Spyder yet (2014 RT LTD), but just sold my Goldwing and am looking forward to the Spyder. I am quite leery about bluetoothing everything and am nervous about not having my cables to helmets! Looking at the BRP Spyder catalog it appears they do have a wired helmet rig, but it also appears you have to have their CB in order to make the wires work?


Regards, Patrick


PIA = Pain in the *ss

[NancysToy]

Hello
jcthorne (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?13770-jcthorne)
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/statusicon/user-offline.png
First, what is PIA?

Second, and most important, if they aren't to install dongle in the front trunk, where do I tell them to install it? And will it install in that alternative location with the wiring harness that comes with the dongle? Or will they tell me that I'm asking for custom work and charge me extra or (worse yet) tell me it can't be done that way?

If you locate dongle in that alternative location does that mean I will NOT have to repair again each time I get on?

I haven't bought my Spyder yet (2014 RT LTD), but just sold my Goldwing and am looking forward to the Spyder. I am quite leery about bluetoothing everything and am nervous about not having my cables to helmets! Looking at the BRP Spyder catalog it appears they do have a wired helmet rig, but it also appears you have to have their CB in order to make the wires work?


Regards, Patrick

There are wired alternatives other than the OEM system. Both Starcom1 and Autocom make good systems. My wife and I use Starcom1. I have tied it to the Spyder audio system by using a PAC SNI-35 hi-lo converter wired to the rear speakers. It would take someone familiar with this kind of wiring and comfortable with the Spyder to install it for you if you can't. Not sure if your dealer would be willing...some are, some aren't.

[bandwagon]

The wired setup is very nice but you have to get use to being tethered to your Spyder. The sound quality is outstanding and fills your helmet in stereo making everything sound so refined. The CB which I have not tried to tune yet picks up traffic very well. The GPS sounds better than I have ever heard one, which as a rich sound as though you are in a studio. I'm very impressed with the wired set. Having said all that there will be times when I will not need the use of the CB and do not want to be dealing with wires. Do I have the option of have the best of both worlds by having a BT Dongle installed as well? Or is this something that can not be done and I will have to just use a separate helmet with BT sets for communication and GPS only?

[jcthorne]

Installing the dongle in the front trunk makes the noise problem worse and its very inconvenient to pair headsets as it ends up behind the trunk liner. The alternative location is in the rear trunk. The supplied bracket (and cable if you have too use it) will work fine in the rear. The real problem with the BRP wiring harness is that it powers the dongle from the factory radio. Which shuts off power to the dongle when you turn off the bike. The dongle stays on, running on its internal battery until it runs down to zero in about 8 hrs. When you start up the bike again the dongle will not repower or pair. It will have to charge for about 15 to 30 minutes before it will do anything. Then it has to be turned on and repaired to the helmet. PIA. Powering from a constant 12v source uses VERY little power and the dongle / helmet pair up each time you turn on the helmet. Works perfectly. Long story short, the Sena dongle works very well, its the BRP harness that was very poorly designed.

With the dongle properly installed and Sena headsets in each helmet, there is very little advantage to a wired CB system. Once I got my dongle sorted out, I have really enjoyed my BT sets. Both for music with handlebar controls and for intercom.

[lyonsden]

I have the Dongle installed in my trunk and it works very well. No noise in the link at all. I turn the dongle on at the beginning of the day and leave it on until I park at home at the end of the day and then turn it off. Doing it this way I have never had to keep pairing the headsets. Just manually turn on at beginning of day and off at the end of the day and you will have no problems. Works well for me.

[PatrickH]

I have the Dongle installed in my trunk and it works very well. No noise in the link at all. I turn the dongle on at the beginning of the day and leave it on until I park at home at the end of the day and then turn it off. Doing it this way I have never had to keep pairing the headsets. Just manually turn on at beginning of day and off at the end of the day and you will have no problems. Works well for me.

Hello
lyonsden (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?8969-lyonsden)
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/statusicon/user-offline.png


Is there a switch on the dongle? Or did you have to install an additional one inline with the power source? When you installed it in the trunk was there a problem finding an "always on" power source there? Is that something the dealer will do during a routine dongle install if requested? Or am I going to have to buy the dongle and figure it out for myself since it's a "custom" installation?

Thanks, Patrick

[lyonsden]

Hello
lyonsden (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?8969-lyonsden)
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/statusicon/user-offline.png


Is there a switch on the dongle? Or did you have to install an additional one inline with the power source? When you installed it in the trunk was there a problem finding an "always on" power source there? Is that something the dealer will do during a routine dongle install if requested? Or am I going to have to buy the dongle and figure it out for myself since it's a "custom" installation?

Thanks, Patrick
The BRP Dongle comes with the power source built into the cable. It draws from the radio power. There is a switch right on the dongle. It is not a problem to turn off and on.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I haven't bought my Spyder yet (2014 RT LTD), but just sold my Goldwing and am looking forward to the Spyder. I am quite leery about bluetoothing everything and am nervous about not having my cables to helmets! Looking at the BRP Spyder catalog it appears they do have a wired helmet rig, but it also appears you have to have their CB in order to make the wires work?


Having said all that there will be times when I will not need the use of the CB and do not want to be dealing with wires. Do I have the option of have the best of both worlds by having a BT Dongle installed as well? Or is this something that can not be done and I will have to just use a separate helmet with BT sets for communication and GPS only?
With the BRP stuff you have to make a choice. It's either CB and intercom with wired helmets, or Bluetooth for audio from the radio and helmet to helmet BT for intercom. You can't have both, at least not yet that I know of. The wired intercom communications is built into the CB radio. The audio from the audio unit, including optional XM, is fed into the CB where it is integrated with the CB and intercom communications and fed to the wired headsets. CB cannot be heard on the speakers.

The Bluetooth dongle plugs into the the harness connected to the audio unit using the same connector that is used to plug in the CB radio. That's why you can't have CB and BT both. With some sleuthing of the specific wires used I can conceive of the possibility of making a Y harness that would connect between the audio unit and the CB unit and plug into the BT harness. That would allow one to use wired headset and have CB and swap helmets to one w/ a BT headset and not use the CB.

Now, if someone could come up with a BT dongle that plugs into the headset connector and can do both 2-way communication and transmit the stereo audio to the helmet BT, we would have the real deal. I'm not that well versed with BT but so far I have not found a hands free protocol BT dongle that will feed a talk signal into the mic input of the radio.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

When you installed it in the trunk was there a problem finding an "always on" power source there?
The trunk has a power outlet in it that can be set to be always powered by changing a fuse position in the fuse box. The dealer should be able to change the wires in the dongle harness to connect to a 12 volt plug you leave in the outlet.

[jcthorne]

The trunk has a power outlet in it that can be set to be always powered by changing a fuse position in the fuse box. The dealer should be able to change the wires in the dongle harness to connect to a 12 volt plug you leave in the outlet.

This is exactly what I did with mine. Remembering to turn it off after I get off the bike and remembering to turn it on before I get on was a real hassel that I got wrong too many times. I fixed it. Always on unless I am going to be away from the bike for more than a few days.....That has not happened yet. It has gone a week and the battery was no where near dead. I usually connect the trickle charger anyway if I know it will sit a while.

[PatrickH]

The trunk has a power outlet in it that can be set to be always powered by changing a fuse position in the fuse box. The dealer should be able to change the wires in the dongle harness to connect to a 12 volt plug you leave in the outlet.

WasWinger (BTW, just sold my '05 GL1800 last month in anticipation of buying a Spyder RT),

I'm confused about nomenclature: is the TRUNK what I'm used to calling a trunk on my wing - that is, the container behind the passenger? Or is the trunk the cargo compartment between the front wheels?

Now, if the trunk is where the wing trunk is located, how would the dongle get its audio, if it's designed to be installed in the front cargo compartment?

Patrick H

[jcthorne]

The compartment up front is the frunk and is where the BRP kit intends to mount the dongle. The Trunk is the compartment in the rear and is an optional location used by many.

The part you are missing is that the radio that the dongle connects to is actually under the right side passenger hand grip, not up front. The cable run from the trunk is far shorter that to the frunk and the cable has to be installed with the dongle, its not already on the bike.

Many forgo using the BRP cable altogether and purchase the generic SM10 dongle from Sena. Its the same part without the BRP specific cable.

[bobbobtar]

The trunk has a power outlet in it that can be set to be always powered by changing a fuse position in the fuse box. The dealer should be able to change the wires in the dongle harness to connect to a 12 volt plug you leave in the outlet.


On the 2013 and 14's if you have a fuse in the #6 position in the fuse box the power to the outlet in the trunk will only be on when the bike is running, remove the fuse from #6 and put it into #7 and the outlet will be hot all the time, also use this outlet for a battery tender.

[jcthorne]

On the 2013 and 14's if you have a fuse in the #6 position in the fuse box the power to the outlet in the trunk will only be on when the bike is running, remove the fuse from #6 and put it into #7 and the outlet will be hot all the time, also use this outlet for a battery tender.

That same fuse powers the outlet in the frunk as well. Some do not have the outlet but the harness is there, just need to install the $8 outlet and plug it in.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I'm confused about nomenclature: is the TRUNK what I'm used to calling a trunk on my wing - that is, the container behind the passenger? Or is the trunk the cargo compartment between the front wheels?
Yes! :roflblack::roflblack:

That's why the one in front is usually referred to as the frunk, as in front trunk! The service manual refers to them as the front and rear storage modules, or compartments. You're not the only one confused by the nomenclature. The guys at BRP are REALLY confused!! That's why we are confused, 'cause they document their confusion in the manuals and parts lists and brochures! Pathetic, really. :banghead:

[NancysToy]

Had to laugh. I have always called a rear case on my bikes a top case, to add yet another term. Never had anything up front on a bike before, but it looks like a VW trunk lid, so trunk does seem to fit. The rear case does seem to naturally be a trunk (in the US) due to a similar location in automobiles. Confusing isn't it? Which is the bonnet and which is the boot? Oops, that's in the UK. BRP seems to call them the front and rear cargo compartments most often. Trunk is shorter. Frunk is weird, but quite explanatory. Call it what you will, I guess...there is no consensus, even in the BRP books. :)

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Let's simplify with the Brit terms, boot and bonnet! :cheers:

[PatrickH]

Hello jcthorne (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?13770-jcthorne),
If I buy the BRP dongle and intend to install it in the rear trunk, will the wiring harness that comes with it reach the radio? Even if I power from a rear, always-on power source, won't I still have to route audio wiring to the radio? If YES, then will I have to modify (or will the dealer's tech, if I have them do it) the wiring harness for the dongle to make it work in that rear location?
Thanks, PatrickH


Installing the dongle in the front trunk makes the noise problem worse and its very inconvenient to pair headsets as it ends up behind the trunk liner. The alternative location is in the rear trunk. The supplied bracket (and cable if you have too use it) will work fine in the rear. The real problem with the BRP wiring harness is that it powers the dongle from the factory radio. Which shuts off power to the dongle when you turn off the bike. The dongle stays on, running on its internal battery until it runs down to zero in about 8 hrs. When you start up the bike again the dongle will not repower or pair. It will have to charge for about 15 to 30 minutes before it will do anything. Then it has to be turned on and repaired to the helmet. PIA. Powering from a constant 12v source uses VERY little power and the dongle / helmet pair up each time you turn on the helmet. Works perfectly. Long story short, the Sena dongle works very well, its the BRP harness that was very poorly designed.

With the dongle properly installed and Sena headsets in each helmet, there is very little advantage to a wired CB system. Once I got my dongle sorted out, I have really enjoyed my BT sets. Both for music with handlebar controls and for intercom.

[jcthorne]

Hello jcthorne (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?13770-jcthorne),
If I buy the BRP dongle and intend to install it in the rear trunk, will the wiring harness that comes with it reach the radio? Even if I power from a rear, always-on power source, won't I still have to route audio wiring to the radio? If YES, then will I have to modify (or will the dealer's tech, if I have them do it) the wiring harness for the dongle to make it work in that rear location?
Thanks, PatrickH

If you mount the dongle in the rear trunk, the supplied BRP harness will have about 4 ft of excess length to coil up. The radio is under the passenger right side grip, not up front. So the radio is much closer to the rear compartment than the front one. Its actually a much easier install as far fewer body panels need to be removed to install the harness.

[jcthorne]

Let's simplify with the Brit terms, boot and bonnet! :cheers:

Bonnet is not only a brit term. Ford uses the term for the forward storage compartment on the Ford GT. Rear hatch is referred to as the clamshell by owners due to its shape and the way it opens. Ford calls it the engine bay cover.

There just are not many north American vehicles with storage compartments up front.

[PatrickH]

jcthorne (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?13770-jcthorne),
Now the light dawns! Thanks for the clear explanation. I was picturing a trunk location that was much farther from the dash, where I assumed the radio was located!
Patrick H


If you mount the dongle in the rear trunk, the supplied BRP harness will have about 4 ft of excess length to coil up. The radio is under the passenger right side grip, not up front. So the radio is much closer to the rear compartment than the front one. Its actually a much easier install as far fewer body panels need to be removed to install the harness.

[PatrickH]

Hello jcthorne (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?13770-jcthorne)m

You speak of forgoing the BRP cable and purchasing SM10 dongle. Are you really talking about forgoing the BRP dongle, as well as the BRP cable? In other words, just use the Sena SM10 dongle and whatever comes with it for hookup and installation instead of using the BRP dongle and its cable? Does the SM10 do what the BRP dongle does? Or perhaps better?

Regards, Patrick H.



The compartment up front is the frunk and is where the BRP kit intends to mount the dongle. The Trunk is the compartment in the rear and is an optional location used by many.

The part you are missing is that the radio that the dongle connects to is actually under the right side passenger hand grip, not up front. The cable run from the trunk is far shorter that to the frunk and the cable has to be installed with the dongle, its not already on the bike.

Many forgo using the BRP cable altogether and purchase the generic SM10 dongle from Sena. Its the same part without the BRP specific cable.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Hello jcthorne (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?13770-jcthorne)m

You speak of forgoing the BRP cable and purchasing SM10 dongle. Are you really talking about forgoing the BRP dongle, as well as the BRP cable? In other words, just use the Sena SM10 dongle and whatever comes with it for hookup and installation instead of using the BRP dongle and its cable? Does the SM10 do what the BRP dongle does? Or perhaps better?

Regards, Patrick H.
I believe finless has, or is working on, a cable that can be used in place of the BRP cable. All that is needed is a power supply to the BT dongle, which is available in the trunk, and a 2 wire connection to the radio. The complication with the audio connection is getting the right connector for the radio end, and knowing which pins to connect to. I believe the dongle end is a normal stereo mini plug.

[jcthorne]

Hello jcthorne (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?13770-jcthorne)m

You speak of forgoing the BRP cable and purchasing SM10 dongle. Are you really talking about forgoing the BRP dongle, as well as the BRP cable? In other words, just use the Sena SM10 dongle and whatever comes with it for hookup and installation instead of using the BRP dongle and its cable? Does the SM10 do what the BRP dongle does? Or perhaps better?

Regards, Patrick H.

The dongle BRP sells IS the Sena SM10 along with a custom harness to plug it in to the factory radio. The harness provides power and sound to the dongle, no control wiring. Power is better provided by connection to the 12v outlet using the cable Sena provides with the SM10. There are several ways of getting sound to the dongle. Finless has built some copies of the BRP harness. I connected to the rear speakers next to the passenger seatback. I got so much noise from the direct radio connection that the dongle was useless. The input signal was too low and it picked up engine and fan motor noise badly. Connecting to the speakers using a passive speaker to line level adapter gave me a solid nose free sound source and works well. Thus I did not use the BRP cable at all and ended up returning it. For me, it works far better than the design BRP came up with.

[finless]

The dongle "cable" I have been making and documented in the DIY section shows how to make the cable that connects directly to the radio RD02 port. This is an unused port UNLESS you have the entertainment harness. If you have the entertainment harness, that harness plugs into the radios RD02 connector and the BT dongle cable plugs into the entertainment harness.

So if you DO NOT have that harness my current documented cable works perfectly. You can use power from the radio or not that is up to you.

Now if you do have an entertainment harness because you also have XM radio (you cant have CB and BT cable). I have not figured out this connector and wiring. In this case the SM10 dongle cable plugs into the entertainment harness instead of directly into the radios RD02 connector.

I should soon get that wiring figured out soon as I have a person wanting one like this as they also have the XM radio. The connector should be easy as the entertainment harness comes with a extra plug to "cap off" this connector when it's not used. All we need are the pins and wires to fill 5 connections of that extra connector.

Hope that clears it up?

Bob

[lyonsden]

jcthorne (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?13770-jcthorne),
Now the light dawns! Thanks for the clear explanation. I was picturing a trunk location that was much farther from the dash, where I assumed the radio was located!
Patrick HThis might be a good read and explain a few things. Farther down in the post there are pictures of how I mounted it in the trunk. http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?47593-Adding-BRP-Bluetooth-Dongle-Questions-Answered