CB Radio Additional Grounding

[SpongeBob]

I had the opportunity to perform some modifications to the CB radio's grounding system while it was being installed.

Spacetrucker has previously advised that the CB radio's performance can be improved by assuring a good ground.

The CB is installed on the vertical surface at the front of the right saddlebag. The radio module is mounted to two metal plates which are screwed into the plastic frame of the saddlebag.



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Since there is no metal ground where the radio mounts, I attached a braid to the radio's mounting plate and ran it to the electrical grounding post at the corner of the gas tank.


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The antenna cable is routed from the CB radio, under the seat, to the left-side speaker pod/armrest assembly which has to be removed in order to install the antenna mounting block.

I purchase the J&M CB antenna upgrade kit to replace the OEM antenna and mounting block. The J&M antenna is more robust than the OEM antenna, although it is the same height and the mounting block the same size.

There is no metal inside the left-side speaker pod/armrest assembly for the antenna to have a proper ground plane. So, in an effort to improve the ground plane, I placed conductive foil inside the plastic assembly to help increase the counterpoise effect.

The ground braid from the antenna cable attaches to the hole at the copper foil and the center radiating conductor attaches to the threaded screw on the antenna mounting block.

83062


A braided ground extension runs from the left-side speaker pod/armrest assembly to an electrical system ground on the left side under the seat.

Without the conductive foil or some other metal inside the left-side speaker pod/armrest assembly, there is little ground counterpoise for the antenna to see.

An additional ground braid wire can be run from this location to other ground points to increase the bonding.


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Sadly, since this is a new install, I am not able to give an A / B comparison. However, I will take some field strength readings when I pick up the Spyder in a few days.

Can you hear me now ? :dontknow:

[fastfraser]

Great post ! Thanks .:thumbup: I had the CB on my 2011 RT and never had much luck with it, so I will add the addition grounds and upgrade the antenna on my 2014 and hope for the best .:dontknow:

[SpongeBob]

If you can't locate copper foil tape, the "aluminum" foil tape used on HVAC ducts is also conductive.


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[Phil]

Nicely done! It's obvious that you have RF experience :)


Phil, Tyler TX- from my iPad 7.5 using Tapatalk HD

[stevedfive]

Any update on how it works?

[SpongeBob]

Not yet ... the Spyder is still at the dealer. I was awaiting installation of the heated comfort seat and then the snow came.

Hopefully, I'll be able to pick it up this week as the roads are now clear and the temperature is forecast to be near 60º by mid week.

I did take some field strength readings inside, but the dealer's building is metal and not indicative of a real-world situation.

[2ndChildhood]

Any update on how it works?

Any update, I would like to know also


ToM
Spyderfest 2014

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[stevedfive]

I added the ground straps and the cooper foil to my bike. Unfortunately, I haven't had tested it yet.

[stevedfive]

I don't know if it was the new CB radio or the additonal grounding and I really don't care. My CB worked 100 times better than my CB on my '10 RT. On the Mt Baldy mountain roads it reached from 1/8 to 1/4 mile. On the freeway/interstate it reached about 1/2 mile, maybe more, ran into a lot of traffic. WOW!

[Jeriatric]

I don't know if it was the new CB radio or the additonal grounding and I really don't care. My CB worked 100 times better than my CB on my '10 RT. On the Mt Baldy mountain roads it reached from 1/8 to 1/4 mile. On the freeway/interstate it reached about 1/2 mile, maybe more, ran into a lot of traffic. WOW!

Great news! :thumbup:

[Questions]

I had the opportunity to perform some modifications to the CB radio's grounding system while it was being installed.

Spacetrucker has previously advised that the CB radio's performance can be improved by assuring a good ground.

The CB is installed on the vertical surface at the front of the right saddlebag. The radio module is mounted to two metal plates which are screwed into the plastic frame of the saddlebag.



83061


Since there is no metal ground where the radio mounts, I attached a braid to the radio's mounting plate and ran it to the electrical grounding post at the corner of the gas tank.


83063



83065

The antenna cable is routed from the CB radio, under the seat, to the left-side speaker pod/armrest assembly which has to be removed in order to install the antenna mounting block.

I purchase the J&M CB antenna upgrade kit to replace the OEM antenna and mounting block. The J&M antenna is more robust than the OEM antenna, although it is the same height and the mounting block the same size.

There is no metal inside the left-side speaker pod/armrest assembly for the antenna to have a proper ground plane. So, in an effort to improve the ground plane, I placed conductive foil inside the plastic assembly to help increase the counterpoise effect.

The ground braid from the antenna cable attaches to the hole at the copper foil and the center radiating conductor attaches to the threaded screw on the antenna mounting block.

83062


A braided ground extension runs from the left-side speaker pod/armrest assembly to an electrical system ground on the left side under the seat.

Without the conductive foil or some other metal inside the left-side speaker pod/armrest assembly, there is little ground counterpoise for the antenna to see.

An additional ground braid wire can be run from this location to other ground points to increase the bonding.


83064


Sadly, since this is a new install, I am not able to give an A / B comparison. However, I will take some field strength readings when I pick up the Spyder in a few days.

Can you hear me now ? :dontknow:
Why don't you just buy a no-ground plane antenna with cable from J&M? Sure would solve a lot of your problems I would think. Also be sure and tune the antenna once you have it installed. When companys "pre-tune and antenna on the bench it is NOT tuned to your radio.

[stevedfive]

I talked to J&M and they don't make one. Firestik does for RVs.

[clueless]

nice work... the local dealer is thinking that they want to experiment with filter on one of the systems. He is thinking its the ABS system that is feeding back into the CB system somehow. that would explain why when not moving there is no noise on the transmission and everything is clear but once you get to a certain speed no matter what the engine RPMS you get snow noise on transmission.

on the STS thankfully going to the Firefly no ground antenna and a SENA Blue Tooth transmission module to a portable Midland CB plugged into the power of the Spyder. have parts just need to find time to figure best way to support and install antenna on the STS. not alot of flat surface with a solid steel area to bolt the no ground antenna to...

also FYI the J&M antenna snapped putting on the cover so replacing with an Firefly light antenna and its still way thicker then the J&M which is thicker then the OEM. Firefly good stuff.. and reasonable priced on Amazon Prime...

[SpyderFun]

... the local dealer is thinking that they want to experiment with filter on one of the systems. He is thinking its the ABS system that is feeding back into the CB system somehow. that would explain why when not moving there is no noise on the transmission and everything is clear but once you get to a certain speed no matter what the engine RPMS you get snow noise on transmission....


For the cost of installing this "option" on , we owners would think that BRP would have conducted extensive dynamic testing to ensure it works as THEY advertised it would! I have a 2010 and the CB has never worked as BRP advertised. :gaah: :banghead:

[WA5VHU]

Most antennas, whether a base station or mobile, are basically a dipole of some shape. With a typical wire dipole the feed line from the radio goes to a center insulator, with one of the feed line wires going to the dipole wire in one direction and the other feed line wire going to the dipole wire in the other direction. If the feed line is a typical CB coax cable, the shield goes to one of the dipole wires while the coax center conductor goes to the other dipole wire. Both sides of the antenna must be there for it to work properly. Kind of like equal and opposite action and reaction - when you push something heavy you have to brace yourself against something. An astronaut floating in space can't push something without being pushed back. They have to stand on something with greater mass such as the spacecraft or on something attached to it.

Just having 1/2 of an antenna connected is about like only connecting to the positive terminal of a battery with nothing connected to the ground terminal. You won't get much out of a battery that way!

The CB whip is only 1/2 of the antenna - the conductive parts of the Spyder are the other half! All transmitted power and received energy flows through both halves. This is why there needs to be a very good RF (radio) ground system. If not, the antenna will try to use whatever it can, including the wiring for the lights and the computer bus and such. For the best range you want very good multiple ground runs from the coax shield at the antenna to a few different places on the frame of the Spyder.

I suppose the folks at BRP figure the CB is something to them that is just "plug and play" - that is just plug in the connectors and it plays. RF is not that simple if some groundwork (pun intended) is not done.

73,
Charles

[robertdgrant]

I have been reading all the not so good news about the Can Am CB. I need to get one
installed in the wife's Can AM. Is the factory CB the only answer or can another one be installed
like the OEM?

[MikeT]

[QUOTE=robertdgrant. I need to get one installed in the wife's Can AM. Is the factory CB the only answer or can another one be installed?[/QUOTE]
Like you, I've been watching the OEM CB saga. Now that it looks like it takes up space in a saddlebag, I won't be getting one. I know some have gone to a portable CB unit(Midland) to "solve" this issue. I hope some who have gone this route will chime in, andgive us their perspective.
Mike

[stevedfive]

With all the issues I have had with the CB Comm system. We are still glad we have it. The additional grounds and RF chokes have helped a great deal.

[SpyderFun]

:opps:
...Now that it looks like it takes up space in a saddlebag, I won't be getting one....Mike


Actually the CB module doesn't take up any space inside the saddle bag area. If memory serves, its located above the right saddle bag next to the radio module.

[stevedfive]

That's correct. It is mounted on the outside of the saddlebag under the Tupperware of the right saddle bag. We have no regrets on getting a CB COMM. Also had one on our 2010 RT.

[Buggy]

My recently purchased BRB CB seems to work well, but I only use it for bike to bike intercom so long range is not that important to me. So far so good.

[SpyderFun]

I'm curious, what helmets and communication systems is everyone using that is successful with the stock CB?

I am wondering if maybe its the helmet and coms systems that might also be causing an issue???

[Buggy]

I am using Edsets with their upgraded speakers. Excellent sound and service.

[Oldmanzues]

I have a CB in my 2010 RT, no real problems, I ride with a GW group, no problems on group rides, have talked to truckers on PGR Mission with none.
I think the helmet units are J & B instaleed by Seiarra in Troy, Oh or at rallys
Oldmanzues

[RUOUTHERE]

Can anyone give us the model/part number of which Firefly CB antenna fits the Spyder?

Thanks,

[bluestratos]

When I bought my 2014 I transfered everything over from my 2011 other than the required adapter. My 11' worked great after I installed the J&M antenna but on the 14' I got feed back when I keyed the mike. I added grounding, chokes and a new J&M antenna but no luck. I I still do not know what is wrong so I designed a little switch that is activated by the com switch on the handle bar that disconnects the sound sound system (I have a 500 watt amp) and this fixed that issue.

However, my match is still way off..over 3-1. I tried a fire stick but this made it worse, I found out that the cable between the radio and the antenna is shorter than typical CB systems which are about 18' or so and the difference seems to be made up in the antenna itself.

Any thoughts or simular experiences?

[stevedfive]

I was told you can't put a choke/magnet on the antenna cable. It will cause static.
You put them on the din cables.