question for the tech gurus on here

[cuznjohn]

i have the hand brake also on my 13 rt. when i was trying to sleep last night i started thinking about something the mechanic said he would do on the bike if he added the hand brake. he said he would of piped it directly into the brake system on the bike, do you think this is possible to do. as it is right now the hand brake has a master cylinder at the handle and a slave cylinder at the foot brake that pushes the peddle downward to apply the brake.

if you ever rode a bike with the hand brake installed you would know that the foot brake is more reliable in a emergency stop than the hand brake because it takes a lot of pressure to apply the hand lever, but if the hand lever with the master cylinder is piped into the existing system do you think this would apply more brake pressure to help to stop. or is there something that can be done to the hand brake system to make it apply more pressure to help stop the bike. it's just a thought and would like to see what you think

[Bob Denman]

No expert or tech guru here :opps:; but I think that the separate Master Cylinder would multiply the effort at the lever.
The Master clylinder at the pedal has been configured with the efforts generated by the foot-pedal; not a hand-lever
I'd keep it the way that it was designed. :thumbup:

[BajaRon]

Bad idea. You don't want to plumb anything into the existing hydraulic system. With the way the Spyder is set up with all the sensors, VSS, etc., you'd just be asking for trouble.

The simple fact is, your hand is not as strong as your foot. To get additional power from the hand brake you'd need a power assist system.

[cuznjohn]

thanks guys, now for an another question, how does the brake systems work on 2 wheel motorcycles. do they have a power assist system that could be added to our bikes. because i have always used just the hand brake on all my bikes and never had a problem. like i said i am just curious how it works

[Bob Denman]

Nope; there's no power assist on the tipovers. They just wigh a lot less; and perhaps the design of the braking system has had more time to get worked out... on a MUCH lighter behicle. :opps:

[jthornton]

Nope; there's no power assist on the tipovers. They just wigh a lot less; and perhaps the design of the braking system has had more time to get worked out... on a MUCH lighter behicle. :opps:

My GL1800 doesn't weigh a lot less than the RT at 800 lbs so it's dry weight 130 lbs lighter than a RT. Even with 2 up on the GL1800 it stops much faster than the RT with only me on it, so the overall weight is the same during that comparison. I know the GL1800 the foot brake does one front disk and the rear disk and the hand brake only does one front disk.

Now you made me go and look at them and the GL1800 has a 12" diameter front disks and the RT has 10" diameter front disks. I'm no brake expert even if I stayed in the H.I.Express once but I assume the bigger diameter means more stopping power?

JT

[Bob Denman]

Absolutely! :thumbup:
They've increased rotor size on the newer bikes; that will certainly help! :2thumbs:
But I never felt short of braking power on the 2010... ;)

[cuznjohn]

the company and they said to keep bleeding the system, he said they are notorious for holding air and once it is bled right it will really put stopping power to the unit, so i guess i will bleed it again

[jerpinoy]

When altering the brake system on spyders you are creating problem and I'm sure the warranty will be void. I already erase my habit of graving my hand like I have on my old bike. My foot brake is good enough for me to stop my RT. It is possible to add a handbrake to my RT foot brake and it cost a bit money but why.

[Chupaca]

don't mess with the system. Unless they can re-do the whole system you are going to have more problems than you bargained for. The present system works very well and unless handicaped I don't see the need to have a hand brake. Mind you just me...the systems being sold now is ok if you really want a hand system but is not a system that works that well. Bikes have two systems. A front wheel and a rear wheel and some with abs have combinations. If you do get it installed let us know how it works out...maybe they found the way to make it work....:thumbup:

[Bob Denman]

You bought the new and improved brake lever; didn't you? How much of an improvement in operation, did it give you?

[lawson001]

You can improve the performance of the ISCI system by adjusting their hydraulic slave cylinder until it's just short of applying pressure to the master cylinder, when at rest. That helped the feel and performance of mine quite a bit. On a 2008 GS.


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[ARtraveler]

Happy Monday morning. Have not used the ISCI so cannot give any expertise there. I am still able to activate the foot brake with my bad leg, so have not tried the system you mention. I feel that I have more than adequate stopping power as is.

Would also recommend not modifying the system as is. We all know how finicky the :spyder2: can be when the computer senses anything it does not like.

[cuznjohn]

the tech he said that when they install the unit, especially on the 13's it could trow you over the windshield once it is bled properly

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Okay; Im gona say this, and I'll gladly take the consquences...
"Bull****!"

[jthornton]

+1 to Bob's comment!

JT

[BajaRon]

the tech he said that when they install the unit, especially on the 13's it could trow you over the windshield once it is bled properly

Not going to quibble with an ISCI tech but I've not heard this from anyone else.

I used to be a partner in a power brake shop. We modified vehicles for handicapped drivers putting lever actuated brakes on the steering wheel or making the foot brake much more sensitive for people who had use of their legs but were not very strong, etc. So anything can be done if money is no object.

A motorcycle system, whether integrated or separate, is engineered from the ground up so that the hand brake is capable of applying lock up pressure.

The Spyder system is engineered for foot/leg power, not hand power. There is a trade-off between leverage and volume. You have to give up one to get the other. Because you are adding an external system and attaching it to the foot actuated assembly, it is most likely that to get the needed leverage would require too much throw, or fluid volume which a hand brake unit is not capable of.

It won't hurt to make sure you have no air in your system and to fine tune the adjustments as much as you can. But I would not be surprised if you can't stand your Spyder on its nose with the single hand brake.

[NancysToy]

Not going to quibble with an ISCI tech but I've not heard this from anyone else.

I used to be a partner in a power brake shop. We modified vehicles for handicapped drivers putting lever actuated brakes on the steering wheel or making the foot brake much more sensitive for people who had use of their legs but were not very strong, etc. So anything can be done if money is no object.

A motorcycle system, whether integrated or separate, is engineered from the ground up so that the hand brake is capable of applying lock up pressure.

The Spyder system is engineered for foot/leg power, not hand power. There is a trade-off between leverage and volume. You have to give up one to get the other. Because you are adding an external system and attaching it to the foot actuated assembly, it is most likely that to get the needed leverage would require too much throw, or fluid volume which a hand brake unit is not capable of.

It won't hurt to make sure you have no air in your system and to fine tune the adjustments as much as you can. But I would not be surprised if you can't stand your Spyder on its nose with the single hand brake.
Well spoken, Ron. :agree:

[TuckMiddle]

When I had mine installed on new 2011 RT, I was a little disappointed with the result due to the extended hand reach to the lever. I've got a lot of arthritis and had to re-grip the lever to get any real results. Had a set of Harley levers and rebent the brake one to narrow the "gap." That helped, about the same as the new adjustable lever. Biggest improvement is from using the hand brake lever a lot and built up the strength in my right hand.
I also try to remember to do an emergency stop any time I ride. We live 5 miles off a county road and besides an absence of traffic, have lots of deer to practice my stopping most every time I see one - chances are there are more of them in the immediate area. I sure wouldn't mess with the factory system, service it as required and use both. My right hip is messed up, but Is normally usable, the hand brake is a great backup/addition in any situation
Tuck

[3 Wheel Addict]

the tech he said that when they install the unit, especially on the 13's it could trow you over the windshield once it is bled properly

Not true with the one I had on my 13 RT/S. It did work as it was designed but it was not nearly as powerful as the foot pedal. I agree with him in one respect, connecting it to the factory system could make it better but it would take some tricky parts to make it happen, like backflow check valves or the stronger of the two master cylinders would just push fluid into the other making the whole braking system useless. I'm sure that's why they did it the way they did. One other thing, the ISCI system is a pain to bleed out, I found that after it's installed if you take the slave (push) cylinder loose and tip it up on end with the bleeder up it will spit our some more air. I though mine was kinda mushy and I bleed it 4 or more times with no air, when I took the cylinder loose and tipped it up and bleed it again it spit out more air then worked much better.

[3 Wheel Addict]

The Goldwing also "linked" the front and rear brakes so the front hand brake also applies some pressure to the rear as well, not sure how they did this?? The Spyder brake system is very strong but I think the weakest link is the brake pads themselves. I will be going with EBC when the time comes.

[3 Wheel Addict]

My GL1800 doesn't weigh a lot less than the RT at 800 lbs so it's dry weight 130 lbs lighter than a RT. Even with 2 up on the GL1800 it stops much faster than the RT with only me on it, so the overall weight is the same during that comparison. I know the GL1800 the foot brake does one front disk and the rear disk and the hand brake only does one front disk.

Now you made me go and look at them and the GL1800 has a 12" diameter front disks and the RT has 10" diameter front disks. I'm no brake expert even if I stayed in the H.I.Express once but I assume the bigger diameter means more stopping power?

JT
Don't forget two rotors on one wheel, and if I remember 6 piston calipers as well.... the Goldwing has a very strong brake system.

[Bob Denman]

Well spoken, Ron. :agree:
throw another :agree: On the pile! :2thumbs:

[BajaRon]

throw another :agree: On the pile! :2thumbs:

You and Scotty are too kind.... :D

I'm running a cable hand brake. No bleeding, (No Hydraulics). It isn't as strong as the Master Cylinder version but it serves me well and it comes in handy all the time. Wouldn't be without it.

[Bob Denman]

No; we're not. Your explanation was so well-presented that I'm going to STEAL it for another discussion at another time! :thumbup:

[oldgoat]

Not true with the one I had on my 13 RT/S. It did work as it was designed but it was not nearly as powerful as the foot pedal. I agree with him in one respect, connecting it to the factory system could make it better but it would take some tricky parts to make it happen, like backflow check valves or the stronger of the two master cylinders would just push fluid into the other making the whole braking system useless. I'm sure that's why they did it the way they did. One other thing, the ISCI system is a pain to bleed out, I found that after it's installed if you take the slave (push) cylinder loose and tip it up on end with the bleeder up it will spit our some more air. I though mine was kinda mushy and I bleed it 4 or more times with no air, when I took the cylinder loose and tipped it up and bleed it again it spit out more air then worked much better.


I agree with you. You have to stop the brake fluid from coming out of the handlebar master cylinder when you apply the foot brake & vice- versa.
With the ISCI system & the one I built myself, the hand brake fluid only pushes on the rear of the foot brake pivot via a slave cylinder. No interchange of fluids.

[bluestratos]

I ordered the hand brake today since they are on sale for 15% off. I spoke with one of the Tec guys and he said once installed the hand brakes will equal the breaking power of the foot break based on the design of their slave cylinder. I guess time I will soon:)

[3 Wheel Addict]

You and Scotty are too kind.... :D

I'm running a cable hand brake. No bleeding, (No Hydraulics). It isn't as strong as the Master Cylinder version but it serves me well and it comes in handy all the time. Wouldn't be without it.

Cable system? Never seen that, is it your own design?? Pictures?

[Bob Denman]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_11_4.gif (He built his own system...)

[3 Wheel Addict]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_11_4.gif (He built his own system...)

Yep kinda figured that but would like to see how he did it..........