Very disapointed with BRP and their product!

[Debedwards93]

Ok my bike is home from the shop after being there 2-1/2 weeks! It is a 2012 RT-S and only had a tad over 5000 miles on it. For the ones that didn't know I brought it to my dealer at 4300 miles for a complete check up and oil change. Needless to say less than 800 miles later I had basically a blown engine. They told me the oil pressure regulator stuck and the oil pressure was not proper and broke ...a rear bearing putting flakes in the oil. Anyway BRP decided not to give me a new bike but to send my dealer a rebuilt short block to replace. Needless to say I am not a happy camper...I loved my Spyder...now I am very disappointed in BRP and my dealership. I am deciding on whether to get rid of it or not!! My value just went way down with this rebuilt. I only had this bike 4 months, and will lose my ass on a trade in!! This kind of service will not be good for BRP at all!! Now I am sorry I didn't go for the Tri-Glide in the first place. Some techs tried to convince me that the rebuilt short block was better than a new one because the part were broke in already and had expanded. I told them I will not accept a rebuilt engine on a brand new bike but they did it anyway, telling me that the warranty on the bike allowed for it!
Will probably call an attorney next week to see what can be done about getting some of my money back, if not all of it for this crap!
:mad:

[Motorcycledave]

If you lived in California, you know the one on the left coast, you would have a NEW one by now
there is a state branch called the B-A-R, Bureau of automotive repair and they enforce the LEMON
law with an iron fist.You would never get a rebuilt engine here it would be NEW period. I think it may be time
to contact some one for some legal advice. From what your post says if I understand it right all this trouble
started after your dealer worked on it, they should be the ones that have to eat it and not you.
I had a similar thing happen with a car I had took it in for the 6K service and the engine ran out of oil and
burned up seems they put an incorrect oil filter it it and it turned to mush and plugged up the oil ways and
starved it of oil.... they ended up owning it and I got a new one.
Don't give in...
This is only my opinion and you know how opinions are, everyone has one
Dave









Ok my bike is home from the shop after being there 2-1/2 weeks! It is a 2012 RT-S and only had a tad over 5000 miles on it. For the ones that didn't know I brought it to my dealer at 4300 miles for a complete check up and oil change. Needless to say less than 800 miles later I had basically a blown engine. They told me the oil pressure regulator stuck and the oil pressure was not proper and broke ...a rear bearing putting flakes in the oil. Anyway BRP decided not to give me a new bike but to send my dealer a rebuilt short block to replace. Needless to say I am not a happy camper...I loved my Spyder...now I am very disappointed in BRP and my dealership. I am deciding on whether to get rid of it or not!! My value just went way down with this rebuilt. I only had this bike 4 months, and will lose my ass on a trade in!! This kind of service will not be good for BRP at all!! Now I am sorry I didn't go for the Tri-Glide in the first place. Some techs tried to convince me that the rebuilt short block was better than a new one because the part were broke in already and had expanded. I told them I will not accept a rebuilt engine on a brand new bike but they did it anyway, telling me that the warranty on the bike allowed for it!
Will probably call an attorney next week to see what can be done about getting some of my money back, if not all of it for this crap!
:mad:

[Bob Denman]

Forget the short block; they need to put an entirely new engine underneath you! :2thumbs:

[Bob Denman]

Incidentally... :welcome:
Although your circumstances don't make it likely that you're in the mood for it. :shocked:

[Jeriatric]

Isn't value, the perception of worth. If, as an owner your mind set is such that an items value has been demenished, for whatever reason. They are less likely, (should they sell) to get fair market value for what they are convinced is a less than desirable item. Wright or wrong. It's human nature.

Seems like a new motor would have been the right call. Wonder if the dealer pushed for that, or took the path of least resistance?

Best of luck. Whatever you do. :doorag:

[jcthorne]

I really don't see what BRP did wrong here. Your nearly 2 year old bike with 5000 miles on it broke. They did not give you the run around about fixing it, or proving maintenance or other malarkey. They fixed it. Nothing wrong with remanufactured parts on a USED not new bike. All motor vehicle manufactures do this with engines and transmissions and a few other parts.

Its bad that it broke, really is, don't make it out that BRP did not honor their warranty or even try not to. They did. Be glad of it.

Oh, and a bike that has had a warranty engine repair has not lost significant value vs other bikes of similar age, mileage and warranty status.

[Debedwards93]

It was not a used bike. It was a leftover 2012 brand new bike I just bought 4 months ago!



I really don't see what BRP did wrong here. Your nearly 2 year old bike with 5000 miles on it broke. They did not give you the run around about fixing it, or proving maintenance or other malarkey. They fixed it. Nothing wrong with remanufactured parts on a USED not new bike. All motor vehicle manufactures do this with engines and transmissions and a few other parts.

Its bad that it broke, really is, don't make it out that BRP did not honor their warranty or even try not to. They did. Be glad of it.

Oh, and a bike that has had a warranty engine repair has not lost significant value vs other bikes of similar age, mileage and warranty status.

[Debedwards93]

Dave, thank you I live in Florida! Who should I contact regarding this?


If you lived in California, you know the one on the left coast, you would have a NEW one by now
there is a state branch called the B-A-R, Bureau of automotive repair and they enforce the LEMON
law with an iron fist.You would never get a rebuilt engine here it would be NEW period. I think it may be time
to contact some one for some legal advice. From what your post says if I understand it right all this trouble
started after your dealer worked on it, they should be the ones that have to eat it and not you.
I had a similar thing happen with a car I had took it in for the 6K service and the engine ran out of oil and
burned up seems they put an incorrect oil filter it it and it turned to mush and plugged up the oil ways and
starved it of oil.... they ended up owning it and I got a new one.
Don't give in...
This is only my opinion and you know how opinions are, everyone has one
Dave

[NancysToy]

I really don't see what BRP did wrong here. Your nearly 2 year old bike with 5000 miles on it broke. They did not give you the run around about fixing it, or proving maintenance or other malarkey. They fixed it. Nothing wrong with remanufactured parts on a USED not new bike. All motor vehicle manufactures do this with engines and transmissions and a few other parts.

Its bad that it broke, really is, don't make it out that BRP did not honor their warranty or even try not to. They did. Be glad of it.

Oh, and a bike that has had a warranty engine repair has not lost significant value vs other bikes of similar age, mileage and warranty status.
Your reply is well stated. I agree wholeheartedly. I am sorry that the OP is dissatisfied, but the response by BRP was appropriate...and pretty darned timely, all things considered. JMHO

[Bob Denman]

I'd push for the new engine...
When that bearing turned to ....crap; it put stray pieces of unwanted bearing guts throughout what was left of that engine. EVERY clearance, tolerance and surface has been compromised within it. :shocked:
...Unless of course; they're going to give some sort of warranty on it? That might be fair...
Good Luck! :thumbup:

[Bob Ledford]

You really need to determine what you got as a replacement engine assembly. By general mechanic terminology there is a big difference unless they have changed definitions. A "short block assembly" is a brand new cylinder body with a new camshaft and crankshaft with new oil pump, water pump, and gaskets. A rebuilt engine is all the above without the fuel injection ignition components a (may not be included in a short block assembly) and external components.

If you have a competent mechanic the short block will not detract from your trade in value nor would a factory certified rebuilt engine. It should not be any part of your trade in conversation.

[Debedwards93]

Apparently I didn't make it clear in the post. It was not a used bike. I bought it 4 months new. last 2012 on the lot! It was a new bike I put 5000 miles on it in the 4 months!



Your reply is well stated. I agree wholeheartedly. I am sorry that the OP is dissatisfied, but the response by BRP was appropriate...and pretty darned timely, all things considered. JMHO

[Magdave]

You really need to determine what you got as a replacement engine assembly. By general mechanic terminology there is a big difference unless they have changed definitions. A "short block assembly" is a brand new cylinder body with a new camshaft and crankshaft with new oil pump, water pump, and gaskets. A rebuilt engine is all the above without the fuel injection ignition components a (may not be included in a short block assembly) and external components.

If you have a competent mechanic the short block will not detract from your trade in value nor would a factory certified rebuilt engine. It should not be any part of your trade in conversation.

Dunno if it an SE5 or not but does a short block include the tranny cause we all know the same oil goes through it even if it isn't still has contamination?

[Debedwards93]

They put in a REBUILT short block and the upper part of my engine is the original.


You really need to determine what you got as a replacement engine assembly. By general mechanic terminology there is a big difference unless they have changed definitions. A "short block assembly" is a brand new cylinder body with a new camshaft and crankshaft with new oil pump, water pump, and gaskets. A rebuilt engine is all the above without the fuel injection ignition components a (may not be included in a short block assembly) and external components.

If you have a competent mechanic the short block will not detract from your trade in value nor would a factory certified rebuilt engine. It should not be any part of your trade in conversation.

[Magdave]

They put in a REBUILT short block and the upper part of my engine is the original.
Oil flows through the valves on the upper part something does not sound right to me but :dontknow:

[Bob Denman]

I'd be pushing HARD, to see what kind of warranty you'll be getting on this repair...

[Bob Ledford]

Florida has a " lemon law " in place but it does not over one failure events I don't have one here to read. But if my memory recall is working it covers repeated attempts by a dealer to repair a recurring problem to a motor vehicle. Say your engine failed three times or the dealer held it for a period in excess of 90 days. Then it would be subject to replacement. But as the complaint you must document all of your steps on pape. My spouse had a nephew that bought a Lexus that ate tires by the fourth set he lemon lawed it for a full refund to include interest.

[ARtraveler]

Sorry to hear of the bad things with the motor. BRP seems to have worked pretty fast in getting the issue solved. I assume your warranty continues with the additional factory warranty service. The value of your unit should not be diminished because of the factory repairs.

I would give it a chance and see how things work out here before making to much of it. The mention of lawyer usually stops the cooperation between BRP, the dealer, and the customer. I note that this is your first day of posting on SL. There are many expert people on this site and you have already heard from at least a couple of them.

Let the repair work or not work and then go from there.

[DrewNJ]

They put in a REBUILT short block and the upper part of my engine is the original.

I think your confusing some terms here...
A "shortblock" is a complete motor. Cases,crank, cylinders, pistons, heads, valves, waterpump. Basically, a complete motor with all the bolt on accessories removed.
"rebuilt" means that they reused/refinished the non-moving, typically non-wear hard parts, like the cases, cylinders, head. But replaced the wear items, like the pistons, rings, cams, valves, waterpump, crank, bearings and seals.

A properly rebuilt motor with all OEM parts is better than the used 5k mile motor that broke.


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[JKMSPYDER]

It would seem to me that if the short block has a full warranty and if the Spyder runs great, then BRP has fulfilled their obligation. Having a rebuilt engine should not factor into the equation when you go to trade or sell it.

[Debedwards93]

Now you see my concerns!!


Oil flows through the valves on the upper part something does not sound right to me but :dontknow:

[Debedwards93]

BRP told me directly that they sent my dealership a REBUILT SHORT BLOCK to replace mine!


I think your confusing some terms here...
A "shortblock" is a complete motor. Cases,crank, cylinders, pistons, heads, valves, waterpump. Basically, a complete motor with all the bolt on accessories removed.
"rebuilt" means that they reused/refinished the non-moving, typically non-wear hard parts, like the cases, cylinders, head. But replaced the wear items, like the pistons, rings, cams, valves, waterpump, crank, bearings and seals.

A properly rebuilt motor with all OEM parts is better than the used 5k mile motor that broke.


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[Magdave]

Now you see my concerns!!
I do but not having torn down or knowing exactly what they are replacing as has been said a rebuilt should not be a concern. I would as stated above be asking about warranty and maybe even an extended warranty ( if you do not have one already) for your troubles . That would make it more valuable too. :thumbup:

[Debedwards93]

Yes it is an se5!


Dunno if it an SE5 or not but does a short block include the tranny cause we all know the same oil goes through it even if it isn't still has contamination?

[Magdave]

Yes it is an se5!
Once again I am not sure exactly what the are including in the rebuild but I would think they will be standing behind it. You can ask them about the concerns and report back. You may be surprised and have everything work out fine. New engines are just as prone to problems don't ask how I know.

[Debedwards93]

I still have my full warranty plus originally I bought an extended warranty and others to the tune of 3000.00. I think they are taking advantage of this...I should have got a new engine or new bike!!


I'd be pushing HARD, to see what kind of warranty you'll be getting on this repair...

[Magdave]

I still have my full warranty plus originally I bought an extended warranty and others to the tune of 3000.00. I think they are taking advantage of this...I should have got a new engine or new bike!!

Where is your dealer located there are some good ones in Florida hopefully you are at one. :thumbup: Hope it isn't St Augustine another member is having issues with them.

You can always call BRP with your concerns too

1 (715) 848-4957 (Consumer)
Bombardier Recreational Products, Customer service

[NancysToy]

Apparently I didn't make it clear in the post. It was not a used bike. I bought it 4 months new. last 2012 on the lot! It was a new bike I put 5000 miles on it in the 4 months!
You made it perfectly clear. It was new when you bought it, but had 4300 miles on it by the time it broke. I'm afraid that is used in anyone's dictionary. You really are getting an engine that is probably better mechanically than yours was before it broke. If the tech is thorough, and the rest of the oil system is thoroughly flushed and cleaned, you should not have any problems. This is a standard repair in the industry, and has proven to be very successful if done properly. It does not lower the vehicle's value in the least. I'd try to keep an open mind.

[Magdave]

You made it perfectly clear. It was new when you bought it, but had 4300 miles on it by the time it broke. I'm afraid that is used in anyone's dictionary. You really are getting an engine that is probably better mechanically than yours was before it broke. If the tech is thorough, and the rest of the oil system is thoroughly flushed and cleaned, you should not have any problems. This is a standard repair in the industry, and has proven to be very successful if done properly. It does not lower the vehicle's value in the least. I'd try to keep an open mind.
+1:agree: I am sure it is traumatic at this point to have this happen but you do have the warranty and time will tell. You may like it better being broken in a little.

[DrewNJ]

From what I'm reading in your first post the low oil pressure probably ruined the bearings in the bottom end. It happens to all manufacturers....
You are getting FAR MORE "new" parts with the replacement motor than there are "broken" parts that are in your old motor. ;)

Why would you think you should get an entirely new motor or an entirely new spyder?

Also, your honestly wasting your time with any "lemon law" pursuit. Your failure is not reoccurring and is being fixed.

The fact that the machine is being fixed, being fixed by the manufacturer using all OEM parts, and being done in a timely manor at no cost to you is fantastic!

Ride more, worry less...

[Jeriatric]

You're not alone and may find some insightful information in the link provided. Not saying this will make you feel any better, or worse, but it may shed a little light on your situation.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?44254-New-Spyder-owner-having-buyers-remorse

[tigerdr]

When you buy a new vehicule, as soon you left the dealer, this new vehicule become a used one even after 1 hour, 1week, 1 month or 4 months. BRP and his dealer had repair the Spyder. The full and complete warranty is still valid and the value of your Spyder is not affected by the repair.

I understand your concern, but after 5000 miles and 4 months, it's no longer a new one. I know someone his transmission was rebuilt after only 1 week and 425 kilometer... and 3 years later, he is very satisfied with his Spyder RT.

[cyclelover63]

I am sorry to hear of your troubles...4 months is the stinger here...However,I've worked at car dealerships for 25 years,and the only time the factory has ever authorized a new part,whether it be engine,transmission or even a radio is on an unsold vehicle....I've seen very rare exemptions,but never for an engine...Sorry

[Debedwards93]

So you are saying it is ok if a bike with only 4300 miles on it can bite the dust! I would expect that from something with 20-30000, not 5000. In any book a vehicle with that low of mileage should not blow an engine.


You made it perfectly clear. It was new when you bought it, but had 4300 miles on it by the time it broke. I'm afraid that is used in anyone's dictionary. You really are getting an engine that is probably better mechanically than yours was before it broke. If the tech is thorough, and the rest of the oil system is thoroughly flushed and cleaned, you should not have any problems. This is a standard repair in the industry, and has proven to be very successful if done properly. It does not lower the vehicle's value in the least. I'd try to keep an open mind.

[Magdave]

So you are saying it is ok if a bike with only 4300 miles on it can bite the dust! I would expect that from something with 20-30000, not 5000. In any book a vehicle with that low of mileage should not blow an engine.

Deb take a deep breath and calm down. Engines blow up everyday some brand new some with 5000mi.There are Spyders with 100k on them. What is important now is to get it fixed to your satisfaction. Give them a chance to do it. I gave you BRP's phone # give them a call and open a case and they WILL try to help. Going off flying off the handle will not help at the dealer or with BRP . Things break nothing is perfect. All engines wear out and die. Sounds like you have had a lot of fun in 4 mo. if you have 5k mi. on it. Remember the fun and as has been said give them some time to get it fixed. You read the other thread I saw you posted there. They took care of him. One can only hope yours turns out the same:thumbup:

[Gray Ghost]

I understand the emotions of the issue, but emotion won't win a case for you. What will govern what happens is the actual wording of the warranty. I don't have my warranty handy, but the brochure for the BEST Warranty says "The B.E.S.T. protection plan guarantees service from BRP-certified technicians using only genuine BRP parts, so your vehicle runs as well as the day it rolled off the assembly line" Nothing in that statement says that the replacement parts will be new, just that it will run as well as when it came off the assembly line.

[Debedwards93]

They did fix the bike. I got it back today after it being gone for 2-1/2 weeks. I am just not happy that I bought a new bike and now 4 months later it is a rebuilt engine when I told them I will not accept a rebuilt engine. They did it anyway against my wishes. I loved my spyder...but now I am not at all happy about having a rebuilt engine on a bike I have only had 4 months because of a manufacturers default supposedly. I feel the dealership screwed up the oil change, so do a lot of other people. Anyway I think BRP should have given me a new engine, not a rebuilt short block! Thank you Dave I know you are trying to make me feel better. I hope I get the feeling back about my bike...I just don't think right now I will.


Deb take a deep breath and calm down. Engines blow up everyday some brand new some with 5000mi.There are Spyders with 100k on them. What is important now is to get it fixed to your satisfaction. Give them a chance to do it. I gave you BRP's phone # give them a call and open a case and they WILL try to help. Going off flying off the handle will not help at the dealer or with BRP . Things break nothing is perfect. All engines wear out and die. Sounds like you have had a lot of fun in 4 mo. if you have 5k mi. on it. Remember the fun and as has been said give them some time to get it fixed. You read the other thread I saw you posted there. They took care of him. One can only hope yours turns out the same:thumbup:

[Magdave]

They did fix the bike. I got it back today after it being gone for 2-1/2 weeks. I am just not happy that I bought a new bike and now 4 months later it is a rebuilt engine when I told them I will not accept a rebuilt engine. They did it anyway against my wishes. I loved my spyder...but now I am not at all happy about having a rebuilt engine on a bike I have only had 4 months because of a manufacturers default supposedly. I feel the dealership screwed up the oil change, so do a lot of other people. Anyway I think BRP should have given me a new engine, not a rebuilt short block! Thank you Dave I know you are trying to make me feel better. I hope I get the feeling back about my bike...I just don't think right now I will.

You will be OK and you know that is the first thing I thought. Too co incidental that the engine blew after service but they rebuild race car engines all the time. Personally I would rather have one that had special attention than a new one. You know every little thing has been checked not just slapped together. Just run it and get that old feeling back.:thumbup: It may have turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Enjoy the ride:ohyea: Make sure you check the oil after service dealers have made mistakes on the fill. I told you the engine will go 100k at least if taken care of.

One more thing that "rebuilt " may have come from a 1k mi. bike ya never know but it is as good as new if done right.

[kyace2003]

I am sorry you had a part failure that caused your engine to let loose however this can happen with any motor manufactured by any company regardless of miles. No this isn't expected and it sounds like BRP honored their promise under the warranty in place. If the rebuilt engine is properly put together you should see no difference than the engine you had that let loose nor do I see how this lowers the Spyders value anymore than the normal age devaluation we all have. I do not know of anyone in this industry that replaces a blown engine with a new one vs. a rebuilt on a normal basis.

I understand you spent $$$ to purchase you Spyder and hopefully BRP and the dealer will get everything in place so that you can continue enjoying it as it was designed to do.

I don't believe anyone is saying that a low milage Spyder should blow up, however mechnical items/parts do and can fail regardless of age.

[ivanlee]

They did fix the bike. I got it back today after it being gone for 2-1/2 weeks. I am just not happy that I bought a new bike and now 4 months later it is a rebuilt engine when I told them I will not accept a rebuilt engine. They did it anyway against my wishes. I loved my spyder...but now I am not at all happy about having a rebuilt engine on a bike I have only had 4 months because of a manufacturers default supposedly. I feel the dealership screwed up the oil change, so do a lot of other people. Anyway I think BRP should have given me a new engine, not a rebuilt short block! Thank you Dave I know you are trying to make me feel better. I hope I get the feeling back about my bike...I just don't think right now I will.

You sure the dealer is not covering his A**, and BRP knows nothing about it. I would contact
BRP. :yes:

[Farmbanker]

I haven't been on this forum in a while. Your thread struck me, I can relate. I bought a brand new 2012 RTS and at mile 86 the engine blew. If you read my threads you will see I was also very unhappy. However, a year and 7,000 miles later, the "rebuilt" engine is running great. I would ride it 500+ miles from home confidently and have. It was a new engine that BRP provided since my bike had so few miles when it blew. BRP was reasonable about it. I didn't get a new bike either but my tech is very good and so he got to personally make sure things looked right as he completely rebuilt it. Put a few thousand miles on the bike and you might feel differently like I did. Maybe not......but there is the chance that you may have a machine that will now run for 100,000. Don't throw in the towel just yet. You have the right to feel frustrated.....I felt that way too. Took a few good long rides to make that feeling go away. I hope it does for you too.


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[Debedwards93]

Thanks Dave, unfortunately the dealership that did the oil change is the one to put this all back together again. They gave me a quart of oil to keep on the bike!! LOL They told me I never have to check the oil just bring it in and they will take care of it. As long as they are servicing it I do not have to check it. When I reminded them of that today the service manager said I should check it every 2000 miles now. They get changed at 4700 miles. How they change their tune after this was not funny to me!! I will bring it to a different dealer and have them show me how to check the oil, or I will have a friend check it for me. But for service I will def find a new dealer!!




You will be OK and you know that is the first thing I thought. Too co incidental that the engine blew after service but they rebuild race car engines all the time. Personally I would rather have one that had special attention than a new one. You know every little thing has been checked not just slapped together. Just run it and get that old feeling back.:thumbup: It may have turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Enjoy the ride:ohyea: Make sure you check the oil after service dealers have made mistakes on the fill. I told you the engine will go 100k at least if taken care of.

One more thing that "rebuilt " may have come from a 1k mi. bike ya never know but it is as good as new if done right.

[NancysToy]

So you are saying it is ok if a bike with only 4300 miles on it can bite the dust! I would expect that from something with 20-30000, not 5000. In any book a vehicle with that low of mileage should not blow an engine.
It is not fun, and it should not be expected, but it happens from time to time. If it did not, we wouldn't need warrantees. It is the response of the dealership and manufacturer that really matters. Yours has done a better than average job of making this right. Instead of having the damage repaired, they went to the extent of providing a rebuilt engine, with new parts that made it as good or better than what they replaced. Accepting the fact that they did more than they were required to should be a comfort, not a disappointment. You should expect a good long life from your machine now...but if it fails again, I expect they will take care of it.


Thanks Dave, unfortunately the dealership that did the oil change is the one to put this all back together again. They gave me a quart of oil to keep on the bike!! LOL They told me I never have to check the oil just bring it in and they will take care of it. As long as they are servicing it I do not have to check it. When I reminded them of that today the service manager said I should check it every 2000 miles now. They get changed at 4700 miles. How they change their tune after this was not funny to me!! I will bring it to a different dealer and have them show me how to check the oil, or I will have a friend check it for me. But for service I will def find a new dealer!!
Under these circumstances, getting the rebuilt engine, which was rebuilt by the factory and not the dealer that may have screwed things up, is just what you should want. Having had them dismantle and repair the engine themselves would have been a huge worry. I would also just consider having had them give you the oil as a goodwill gesture, not a crime or mark of incompetence.

On the other hand, advising you not to check the oil, or even to check it only every 2,000 miles is just plain irresponsible. It is the owner's responsibility to check the oil. BRP's maintenance schedule calls for you to do so every 300 miles. That is probably excessive, but I would do so after every service (in case the dealer screwed up), and at least every 500 until you see how the oil usage goes, and no more than every 1,000 thereafter if the oil usage will allow. The dealer should have showed you how to check the oil, among other things, when you took delivery. Finding another dealer might be appropriate. If not, I'd at least talk to the dealership owner and ask why his staff failed to do so. Please also note that there are other necessary maintenance tasks that the owner should perform periodically, like checking tire pressure. Motorcycles need closer attention and are more hands-on than the average automobile. Study the Owners Guide and have someone go over what you need to do and when.

Now get out there and ride the wheels off that thing!

[spydercatjohn]

I would also be unhappy getting a rebuilt engine on a bike only 4 months. A 4 month old bike is still new since it was recently made (dictionary definition). Boo to BRP!!

[DrewNJ]

A rebuilt motor is not necessarily inferior. It can actually be superior to one built on the assembly line.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Barlock]

Thanks Dave, unfortunately the dealership that did the oil change is the one to put this all back together again. They gave me a quart of oil to keep on the bike!! LOL They told me I never have to check the oil just bring it in and they will take care of it. As long as they are servicing it I do not have to check it. When I reminded them of that today the service manager said I should check it every 2000 miles now. They get changed at 4700 miles. How they change their tune after this was not funny to me!! I will bring it to a different dealer and have them show me how to check the oil, or I will have a friend check it for me. But for service I will def find a new dealer!!

Take a look at this:

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?60306-Factory-Instructions-for-changing-Oil-and-Filter

You'll find it very helpfull.

[SpyderAnn01]

Thanks Dave, unfortunately the dealership that did the oil change is the one to put this all back together again. They gave me a quart of oil to keep on the bike!! LOL They told me I never have to check the oil just bring it in and they will take care of it. As long as they are servicing it I do not have to check it. When I reminded them of that today the service manager said I should check it every 2000 miles now. They get changed at 4700 miles. How they change their tune after this was not funny to me!! I will bring it to a different dealer and have them show me how to check the oil, or I will have a friend check it for me. But for service I will def find a new dealer!!

Deb, when you read your Owner's Manual and it said to check your oil every 300 miles didn't it occur to you to question your dealer on why they would say to never check your oil?

[murphybrown]

I read my manual but this checking oil was just way to complicated (so I told myself). But then I read and learned the importance of oil in our wonderful Spyders. Still thought it an UGH job...until Scotty took the time and patience to "make me" take off the panels and check my oil correctly. I never get on the Spyder without extra oil on board (along with funnel). I have learned (after about the first 20k) that my Spyder likes about 11-12 oz every 900 miles (+ or - a few). I am so NOT mechanical....but I do know that it is my responsibility to know my machine by reading my manual (and trust me when I say reading a manual is not my idea of "fun"). Then once I found this incredible bunch of incredibly caring and helpful SL's I ask any and everything and get wonderful help. I do believe that alot of my "dumb luck" with my Ms Spyder was pure ignorance on all things mechanical. Now I have enough knowledge to be dangerous and am sure that I will fuss a whole lot more when I get the new ryde next year...but I will always come right back here and ask my :yikes: questions. Totally accepting everyone's opinion but bottom line decision and responsiblity is mine. I agree with Dave and Scotty and others. I get the strong negative feelings/emotions when you spend that much $$ and sooooo want perfection. But unfortunately that is not real life...crap happens that puts all of us below the line...From what I read here I have to agree that I think your dealer and BRP are doing what is right by your Spyder and you. Jump on that sweet machine and ryde it like you never had a problem. You have the best warranty available and rest in that insurance/assurance. :yes:

[SpyderFun]

Your reply is well stated. I agree wholeheartedly. I am sorry that the OP is dissatisfied, but the response by BRP was appropriate...and pretty darned timely, all things considered. JMHO


Ok my bike is home from the shop after being there 2-1/2 weeks! It is a 2012 RT-S and only had a tad over 5000 miles on it. For the ones that didn't know I brought it to my dealer at 4300 miles for a complete check up and oil change. Needless to say less than 800 miles later I had basically a blown engine. They told me the oil pressure regulator stuck and the oil pressure was not proper and broke ...a rear bearing putting flakes in the oil. Anyway BRP decided not to give me a new bike but to send my dealer a rebuilt short block to replace. Needless to say I am not a happy camper...I loved my Spyder...now I am very disappointed in BRP and my dealership. I am deciding on whether to get rid of it or not!! My value just went way down with this rebuilt. I only had this bike 4 months, and will lose my ass on a trade in!! This kind of service will not be good for BRP at all!! Now I am sorry I didn't go for the Tri-Glide in the first place. Some techs tried to convince me that the rebuilt short block was better than a new one because the part were broke in already and had expanded. I told them I will not accept a rebuilt engine on a brand new bike but they did it anyway, telling me that the warranty on the bike allowed for it!
Will probably call an attorney next week to see what can be done about getting some of my money back, if not all of it for this crap!
:mad:


Scotty,

In the past, you and I have agreed and disagreed on various issues based on our mechanical backgrounds and experiences but on this issue....PLEASE take another look!

The owner states he put 800 miles on his ride AFTER having it serviced by an "authorized dealer" employing "BRP certified technicians".

Sorry but a blown engine after being serviced by a "BRP Dealer" is suspicious at best given their explainition of a "stuck oil pressure regulator".
Q1. How do they (BRP or its Dealer) know this was in-fact the cause of the failure (could be more serious than this)?
Q2. How many other owners have a similar experience with a "stuck oil pressure regulator" (if none, could this be a "Lemmon Engine"?)?
Q3. Has this part been previously identified as a "known potential failure" by BRP (if so, request for a NEW engine is reasonable)?
Q4. If so, when did BRP know?
Q5. When did BRP notify their dealers and owners upon knowing such knowledge (again, potential for new engine seems reasonable)?
ETC.....ETC...

Far too many unanswered questions to just accept their answer as acceptable, or even plausible, given it is basically a new engine that is barely broken in (5,100 total miles = 4,300 miles at time of service + 800 post service miles). Unless BRP expects blown engines at just over 5k miles.

Finally, would ANY of us pay full-value for a motorcycle with a "rebuilt" engine vs. having the OEM engine (i.e. new engine)?

Just My 2-Cents.....

[flaggerphil]

Ok my bike is home from the shop after being there 2-1/2 weeks! It is a 2012 RT-S and only had a tad over 5000 miles on it. For the ones that didn't know I brought it to my dealer at 4300 miles for a complete check up and oil change. Needless to say less than 800 miles later I had basically a blown engine. They told me the oil pressure regulator stuck and the oil pressure was not proper and broke ...a rear bearing putting flakes in the oil. Anyway BRP decided not to give me a new bike but to send my dealer a rebuilt short block to replace. Needless to say I am not a happy camper...I loved my Spyder...now I am very disappointed in BRP and my dealership. I am deciding on whether to get rid of it or not!! My value just went way down with this rebuilt. I only had this bike 4 months, and will lose my ass on a trade in!! This kind of service will not be good for BRP at all!! Now I am sorry I didn't go for the Tri-Glide in the first place. Some techs tried to convince me that the rebuilt short block was better than a new one because the part were broke in already and had expanded. I told them I will not accept a rebuilt engine on a brand new bike but they did it anyway, telling me that the warranty on the bike allowed for it!
Will probably call an attorney next week to see what can be done about getting some of my money back, if not all of it for this crap!
:mad:

Maybe I missed it, but where in Florida do you live and who is your dealer?

[cuznjohn]

as a rule most engines that blow are replaced with a re manufactured one, even in cars. but i do feel you should call brp and ask for a new and not rebuilt. if you feel the top end might be contaminated with fragments tell them that also, and make sure you ask what kind of warranty you get with the new rebuilt motor. it will most likely be 1 year but get them to give you everything in writing.

[Bob Denman]

I guess that you're just going to have to live with being unhappy... :dontknow:
Sorry! :opps:

Or... Try riding the bike, and see if the "new" engine performs as it should.

[Cleg]

It is not fun, and it should not be expected, but it happens from time to time. If it did not, we wouldn't need warrantees. It is the response of the dealership and manufacturer that really matters. Yours has done a better than average job of making this right. Instead of having the damage repaired, they went to the extent of providing a rebuilt engine, with new parts that made it as good or better than what they replaced. Accepting the fact that they did more than they were required to should be a comfort, not a disappointment. You should expect a good long life from your machine now...but if it fails again, I expect they will take care of it.


Under these circumstances, getting the rebuilt engine, which was rebuilt by the factory and not the dealer that may have screwed things up, is just what you should want. Having had them dismantle and repair the engine themselves would have been a huge worry. I would also just consider having had them give you the oil as a goodwill gesture, not a crime or mark of incompetence.

On the other hand, advising you not to check the oil, or even to check it only every 2,000 miles is just plain irresponsible. It is the owner's responsibility to check the oil. BRP's maintenance schedule calls for you to do so every 300 miles. That is probably excessive, but I would do so after every service (in case the dealer screwed up), and at least every 500 until you see how the oil usage goes, and no more than every 1,000 thereafter if the oil usage will allow. The dealer should have showed you how to check the oil, among other things, when you took delivery. Finding another dealer might be appropriate. If not, I'd at least talk to the dealership owner and ask why his staff failed to do so. Please also note that there are other necessary maintenance tasks that the owner should perform periodically, like checking tire pressure. Motorcycles need closer attention and are more hands-on than the average automobile. Study the Owners Guide and have someone go over what you need to do and when.

Now get out there and ride the wheels off that thing!

Really... What is the big deal:hun: checking the oil should be normal for any and all riders, or user of any motorized piece of equipment. After a ride take a minute and remove the panel and check the oil. Simple...not like changing the oil :gaah:every time you ride. I think back over the years when we would 'rebuild' and engine to improve it's performance. Usually better than OEM if not we would :chat: about it and figure out why. Albeit I agree, 5100 miles should not be enough to cause failure, it is machine made and sometimes, just sometimes, the material is weak and breaks. It sux I know, but I certainly think the dealers prompt actions and reasonable response from BRP should be considered. I would ride on brother, ryde on and enjoy the heck out of the air in your face and the comfort for you butt!!! Good luck and enjoy.

Oh yea, an extra qt of oil is worth it to be on the safe side. I do it....Just saying!

[ValleyRider]

I suggest you contact the Council of Better Business Bureau in Arlington VA. Your state has a lemon law. Spyders are covered under the lemon law. You may file for arbitration with the BBB. The BBB will assist you without cost to you.

Good luck



Ok my bike is home from the shop after being there 2-1/2 weeks! It is a 2012 RT-S and only had a tad over 5000 miles on it. For the ones that didn't know I brought it to my dealer at 4300 miles for a complete check up and oil change. Needless to say less than 800 miles later I had basically a blown engine. They told me the oil pressure regulator stuck and the oil pressure was not proper and broke ...a rear bearing putting flakes in the oil. Anyway BRP decided not to give me a new bike but to send my dealer a rebuilt short block to replace. Needless to say I am not a happy camper...I loved my Spyder...now I am very disappointed in BRP and my dealership. I am deciding on whether to get rid of it or not!! My value just went way down with this rebuilt. I only had this bike 4 months, and will lose my ass on a trade in!! This kind of service will not be good for BRP at all!! Now I am sorry I didn't go for the Tri-Glide in the first place. Some techs tried to convince me that the rebuilt short block was better than a new one because the part were broke in already and had expanded. I told them I will not accept a rebuilt engine on a brand new bike but they did it anyway, telling me that the warranty on the bike allowed for it!
Will probably call an attorney next week to see what can be done about getting some of my money back, if not all of it for this crap!
:mad:

[Spyder4Tess]

Sure,a brand new motor would be nice but when you buy a vehicle you are also agreeing to the companies warranty procedures.
It sounds like BRP full filled their obligation.

[cuznjohn]

i would be the biggest pest they had about getting a new motor but as long as i get full coverage on a re conditioned one there is nothing you can really do

[Dragonrider]

It's threads like these that make me really glad I now own a Honda (again)......

While there are some things I miss about the Spyder, there's more that I don't.

[taken]

Just read through the whole thread. I agree with those who would insist on a new complete motor. There was a bit of misinformation earlier too. A short block is not a complete engine minus the bolt on accessories. It is a complete lower. The heads are not included. A long block is complete including the heads. And yes, they along with the trans could be contaminated. Tough part about that is, it could be until after the warranty runs out before additional damage occurs if the swarf is small enough.

[3 Wheel Addict]

At the risk of being bashed i'm going to comment on this subject. Since I turn wrenches for a living as a master tech and on BRP products no less (Evinrude) I really think the proper procedure would be a NEW replacement engine not remanufactured. Warranty should just replace the complete (less bolt on's) engine based on the age and mileage of the unit. Now if he was out of "factory" warranty and into the BEST protection then a reman engine would come into play. I read all kind's of posts on here about warranty and dealer service and it just blows me away that us (end user) have to put up with this crap. I can tell you for sure that these types of services are NOT normal for BRP at least from the Evinrude side of things but I can't see how the Can-am side would be that different? I had a customer with a 2008 Evinrude E-tec 225HO that was in his 3rd year of the factory warranty and we had a crazy problem with the engine "dropping out" at idle. I could confirm this by logging data however we tried replacing many parts, EMM, wiring harness and various sensors. End result BRP finally gave him a 2011 complete fully dressed powerhead! I never had one problem getting the help I needed to keep this customer happy, period! Food for thought.... A happy customer tells no complaints but a unhappy customer tells everybody he sees!

[spyder3]

You made it perfectly clear. It was new when you bought it, but had 4300 miles on it by the time it broke. I'm afraid that is used in anyone's dictionary. You really are getting an engine that is probably better mechanically than yours was before it broke. If the tech is thorough, and the rest of the oil system is thoroughly flushed and cleaned, you should not have any problems. This is a standard repair in the industry, and has proven to be very successful if done properly. It does not lower the vehicle's value in the least. I'd try to keep an open mind.

With the current dealer network horror stories and the fact that she just had the oil changed by this dealer prior to the catastrophe,.....That is two, to many if's for me to be comfortable with.

[NancysToy]

With the current dealer network horror stories and the fact that she just had the oil changed by this dealer prior to the catastrophe,.....That is two, to many if's for me to be comfortable with.
It's on warrantee, with an extended warrantee. If it breaks again it can be taken to another dealer. It is an inconvenience, but these things can happen. Many of us have been there, myself included. There is really no sense in tilting at windmills over this. BRP fullfilled their written obligations. The dealer moved quickly to rectify their apparent error (no matter what they blamed it on). It is time to accept it at face value and ride. All the worrying and griping in the world is not going to change a thing...and I doubt any court in the land would offer any further relief. JMHO

[spydercatjohn]

I wonder if spyderann is going to get a rebuilt spyder to replace her "used" one that caught fire. I am having second thoughts about buying another Spyder rt in 2015. Maybe trike a Kawasaki or Honda with a large network of experienced dealers. A rebuilt engine is someone's defective engine that hopefully gets correctly assembled the second time around. BRP seems to have the same attitude about quality that the American auto industry had in the 1960's.

[Yazz]

I wonder if spyderann is going to get a rebuilt spyder to replace her "used" one that caught fire. I am having second thoughts about buying another Spyder rt in 2015. Maybe trike a Kawasaki or Honda with a large network of experienced dealers. A rebuilt engine is someone's defective engine that hopefully gets correctly assembled the second time around. BRP seems to have the same attitude about quality that the American auto industry had in the 1960's.

What does SpyderAnn's RT '13 fire have to do with a RT '12 rebuilt engine? :dontknow:

[Paws]

PM sent with link to Attorney general's office.

If your bike was there for more than 15 days(2 1/2 weeks),that meets the standard for application.

[Paws]

I'm surprised at the lack of empathy by many owners here.

My opinion....Retired educator with PhD...I'm also a certified auto body restorer.

I've yet to see a BRP dealer with the same shop setup as the BRP factory for doing engine rebuilds.

5K miles is nothing(or should be)Some owners here are reacting like this is to be expected!!! Really???.
...Being purchased as a leftover still makes it "new."

She paid 3K for extended warranty...She deserves premium warranty service.

I hope she receives a resolution that makes her happy with her purchase.
I believe she qualifies under the Florida "Lemon Law" statute.(more than
15 days at the dealer for repair)

Best wishes....

[Questions]

In Florida for a Lemon Law to go into effect you must have the same recurring problem at least three times and take it to the same dealer/ repair shop to get it worked on each Time then and only then is it considered a Lemon. Been there, Done that !

[Dizneyman]

I'm surprised at the lack of empathy by many owners here.

My opinion....Retired educator with PhD...I'm also a certified auto body restorer.

I've yet to see a BRP dealer with the same shop setup as the BRP factory for doing engine rebuilds.

5K miles is nothing(or should be)Some owners here are reacting like this is to be expected!!! Really???.
...Being purchased as a leftover still makes it "new."

She paid 3K for extended warranty...She deserves premium warranty service.

I hope she receives a resolution that makes her happy with her purchase.
I believe she qualifies under the Florida "Lemon Law" statute.(more than
15 days at the dealer for repair)


Best wishes....


There is no Florida Lemon law for motorcycles.
Florida Lemon Law does not cover motorcycles. However, the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states that the manufacturer of any product — from your toaster to your lemon motorcycle — must abide by the warranty.
Unlike the Florida Lemon Law for new cars, which requires you to go into arbitration or mediation, you need to sue the manufacturer and/or dealer of your motorcycle in a court of law. The window of time to initiate a lawsuit is small, so speak to a Lemon Law attorney if your motorcycle has been in the shop three times for the same problem. If your case is successful, the manufacturer will have pay for attorneys' fees, so you shouldn't have to pay for representation.

[jcthorne]

I wonder if spyderann is going to get a rebuilt spyder to replace her "used" one that caught fire. I am having second thoughts about buying another Spyder rt in 2015. Maybe trike a Kawasaki or Honda with a large network of experienced dealers. A rebuilt engine is someone's defective engine that hopefully gets correctly assembled the second time around. BRP seems to have the same attitude about quality that the American auto industry had in the 1960's.

Sorry but you are way off base here. Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Kia, BMW, Daimler all have the same policy on replacement of failed engines in used vehicles. New engines are only supplied for failures in NEW ie unsold and untitled vehicles.

BRP did nothing wrong here and stepped up to fix, and quickly by motorcycle standards.

[Mike,P]

Sorry but you are way off base here. Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Kia, BMW, Daimler all have the same policy on replacement of failed engines in used vehicles. New engines are only supplied for failures in NEW ie unsold and untitled vehicles.

BRP did nothing wrong here and stepped up to fix, and quickly by motorcycle standards.

CORRECT

[Bob Denman]

Yup... :agree:
And I'm disappointed in how many folks keep wanting to talk about a law that doesn't apply to motorcycles anyway?? :gaah:

[NancysToy]

Yup... :agree:
And I'm disappointed in how many folks keep wanting to talk about a law that doesn't apply to motorcycles anyway?? :gaah:

Please note that lemon laws, if that is what you are referring to, apply to motorcycles in about half the states...and motorcycles are exempted in the remainder.

[Bob Denman]

There is no Florida Lemon law for motorcycles.
Florida Lemon Law does not cover motorcycles. However, the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states that the manufacturer of any product — from your toaster to your lemon motorcycle — must abide by the warranty.
Unlike the Florida Lemon Law for new cars, which requires you to go into arbitration or mediation, you need to sue the manufacturer and/or dealer of your motorcycle in a court of law. The window of time to initiate a lawsuit is small, so speak to a Lemon Law attorney if your motorcycle has been in the shop three times for the same problem. If your case is successful, the manufacturer will have pay for attorneys' fees, so you shouldn't have to pay for representation.
That's the one; and I'll stick with what the gentleman from Florida has stated...

[beanoil]

I really don't see what BRP did wrong here. Your nearly 2 year old bike with 5000 miles on it broke. They did not give you the run around about fixing it, or proving maintenance or other malarkey. They fixed it. Nothing wrong with remanufactured parts on a USED not new bike. All motor vehicle manufactures do this with engines and transmissions and a few other parts.

Its bad that it broke, really is, don't make it out that BRP did not honor their warranty or even try not to. They did. Be glad of it.

Oh, and a bike that has had a warranty engine repair has not lost significant value vs other bikes of similar age, mileage and warranty status.
^^^^^^ This... every word of it is true....^^^^^^ You had a scoot that didn't run, now it does, and was fixed under warranty. There are bigger fish to fry.

[docdoru]

Many of us have been there, myself included...It is time to accept it at face value and ride... JMHO

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm136/docdoru/Nono_zpsa3aca2e3.gif?t=1384864774

[SpyderFun]

It's not always about "warranty" but rather receiving Customer Service that the "customer/owner" is satisfied with. Such as, can BRP guarantee no future metal contamination or provide oil changes designed to "flush the system" so the bike spends more time on the road versus the shop?

Doing the right thing is usually never the cheapest or legal thing.


-Mike
<Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)>

[Highwayman2013]

So how's it running?

[Specsman]

Ordinarily a short block is the block and rotating assembly. This does not include the heads and valve train, intake or exhaust nor any bolt-ons. A long block includes the short block plus the top end, heads and valve train, but still no intake, exhaust or bolt-ons. A new or rebuilt complete engine comes turn-key and in many cases ready to run. Don't forget there is a difference in a rebuilt short block and a new short block. Rebuilt infers some used parts were assembled in the buildup that were deemed up to spec. You should have gotten a long block if you had metal circulating in the engine.

[BRPcare]

Ok my bike is home from the shop after being there 2-1/2 weeks!:mad:

Hi Debedwards93 - first off, I'm sorry this happened to you. An engine with less than 5k miles on it definitely should not have that problem - it's the first time I've seen that chain of mechanical events unfold. I sincerely hope that your Spyder experience going forward is problem-free with many miles of riding ahead of you. Your warranties be honored and we want you to ride with confidence. Any covered issues you might encounter down the road - whether related or not to this occurrence - will be handled by the warranty department.

I would, however, like to address some statements in this thread.


Anyway I think BRP should have given me a new engine, not a rebuilt short block!

I wish BRP would stop using the term "rebuilt" for these units, as it's really nothing like what I've seen elsewhere in the industry. The amount of time, testing and measuring that goes into them is staggering, as they're often sent out to folks who have had a serious issue. Every part is measured and tested, and if it doesn't fall within ridiculously tight tolerances, it is discarded and replaced with a new part. Many parts are by default replaced with new ones, sight unseen. Everything is then assembled by a team of experts - not on an assembly line. Incidentally, in the ATV and Side-by-Side racing world, many professional race teams, for instance, insist on so-called "rebuilt" cranks for these very same reasons.


I've yet to see a BRP dealer with the same shop setup as the BRP factory for doing engine rebuilds.

The procedure is generally performed at BRP, not at a dealer.


This is a standard repair in the industry, and has proven to be very successful if done properly.

I can't get into numbers, but we have had phenomenal results with these short blocks. The Rotax engines are proven, solid designs with an excellent track record and reputation. The short block you have in your unit meets these standards. Ride your Spyder and enjoy!

[ivanlee]

Hi Debedwards93 - first off, I'm sorry this happened to you. An engine with less than 5k miles on it definitely should not have that problem - it's the first time I've seen that chain of mechanical events unfold. I sincerely hope that your Spyder experience going forward is problem-free with many miles of riding ahead of you. Your warranties be honored and we want you to ride with confidence. Any covered issues you might encounter down the road - whether related or not to this occurrence - will be handled by the warranty department.

I would, however, like to address some statements in this thread.



I wish BRP would stop using the term "rebuilt" for these units, as it's really nothing like what I've seen elsewhere in the industry. The amount of time, testing and measuring that goes into them is staggering, as they're often sent out to folks who have had a serious issue. Every part is measured and tested, and if it doesn't fall within ridiculously tight tolerances, it is discarded and replaced with a new part. Many parts are by default replaced with new ones, sight unseen. Everything is then assembled by a team of experts - not on an assembly line. Incidentally, in the ATV and Side-by-Side racing world, many professional race teams, for instance, insist on so-called "rebuilt" cranks for these very same reasons.



The procedure is generally performed at BRP, not at a dealer.



I can't get into numbers, but we have had phenomenal results with these short blocks. The Rotax engines are proven, solid designs with an excellent track record and reputation. The short block you have in your unit meets these standards. Ride your Spyder and enjoy!


what about the top end ? Is it treated the same as the short block ?

[Magdave]

Hi Debedwards93 - first off, I'm sorry this happened to you. An engine with less than 5k miles on it definitely should not have that problem - it's the first time I've seen that chain of mechanical events unfold. I sincerely hope that your Spyder experience going forward is problem-free with many miles of riding ahead of you. Your warranties be honored and we want you to ride with confidence. Any covered issues you might encounter down the road - whether related or not to this occurrence - will be handled by the warranty department.

I would, however, like to address some statements in this thread.



I wish BRP would stop using the term "rebuilt" for these units, as it's really nothing like what I've seen elsewhere in the industry. The amount of time, testing and measuring that goes into them is staggering, as they're often sent out to folks who have had a serious issue. Every part is measured and tested, and if it doesn't fall within ridiculously tight tolerances, it is discarded and replaced with a new part. Many parts are by default replaced with new ones, sight unseen. Everything is then assembled by a team of experts - not on an assembly line. Incidentally, in the ATV and Side-by-Side racing world, many professional race teams, for instance, insist on so-called "rebuilt" cranks for these very same reasons.



The procedure is generally performed at BRP, not at a dealer.



I can't get into numbers, but we have had phenomenal results with these short blocks. The Rotax engines are proven, solid designs with an excellent track record and reputation. The short block you have in your unit meets these standards. Ride your Spyder and enjoy!

Nice to see you post on this Steve:thumbup: You confirmed my earlier statement that a rebuilt can be as good or better than new and that race teams do it all the time.

[Bob Denman]

:agree: :clap: :thumbup:

[spydercatjohn]

What does SpyderAnn's RT '13 fire have to do with a RT '12 rebuilt engine? :dontknow:
BRP posted on this website that they would "do right" by spyderann regarding her getting a new Spyder after her's caught fire. I thought "new" was what they meant and not a "rebuilt" bike. Not so sure now.

One reason people buy new is emotional, to have something "clean" that no one has used before. And they pay a hefty premium to buy new. So a used motor shortchanges them. Imagine if your defective new mattress was replaced by a rebuilt used one. Yuckk!

[cuznjohn]

i am trying to ask steve a question and quoting his post but it won't let me post. so what i am asking is what is going on with the fix for the 2013's and when will we hear something steve

[Trickie Dick]

BRP posted on this website that they would "do right" by spyderann regarding her getting a new Spyder after her's caught fire. I thought "new" was what they meant and not a "rebuilt" bike. Not so sure now.

One reason people buy new is emotional, to have something "clean" that no one has used before. And they pay a hefty premium to buy new. So a used motor shortchanges them. Imagine if your defective new mattress was replaced by a rebuilt used one. Yuckk!

Why would you think she is getting a "rebuilt bike"? They have provide her with a loaner. Don't you think if they were going with a rebuilt they would have done it by now? Your analogy with a mattress is ......... to be polite, not appropriate.

[flaggerphil]

i am trying to ask steve a question and quoting his post but it won't let me post. so what i am asking is what is going on with the fix for the 2013's and when will we hear something steve

Why are you asking him that on this thread? Sorta hijacking it, isn't it?

[SpyderAnn01]

BRP posted on this website that they would "do right" by spyderann regarding her getting a new Spyder after her's caught fire. I thought "new" was what they meant and not a "rebuilt" bike. Not so sure now.

One reason people buy new is emotional, to have something "clean" that no one has used before. And they pay a hefty premium to buy new. So a used motor shortchanges them. Imagine if your defective new mattress was replaced by a rebuilt used one. Yuckk!

My situation has nothing to do with this topic as Yazz was pointing out. BRP has taken care of my situation and I will be purchasing a 2014 when a RTS-SM6 is available.

[cuznjohn]

Why are you asking him that on this thread? Sorta hijacking it, isn't it?

being seve from brp was on here i just wanted to ask a question. i would never hack a post

[Highwayman2013]

Well, how is it running?

[MrLooney]

Just my $0.02 cents worth

When I was into racing, I always requested a rebuilt crank usually 0.10 / 0.10. That means the bearing journals have been turned on a lath. Basically each bearing journal has been trued to the enter line of the crank. This process makes for a better (squarer) crank. This over-all rebuild process hold true for the rods and pistons too. The end result is by far a better product than a factory line built engine.

I hope you got your bike back and will enjoy it with out any further troubles.

[Bob Denman]

Well, how is it running?
:agree: THIS is the question that really needs answering... :bbq::bbq::bbq:

[Trickie Dick]

Guess he wasn't getting the answers he was looking for, he hasn't be back on SL since the 15th.:yikes:

[spydercatjohn]

Why would you think she is getting a "rebuilt bike"? They have provide her with a loaner. Don't you think if they were going with a rebuilt they would have done it by now? Your analogy with a mattress is ......... to be polite, not appropriate.

The analogy is obvious to anyone who values something "new" as does Deb. Ask your wife to explain it to you.

[Bob Denman]

Guess he wasn't getting the answers he was looking for, he hasn't be back on SL since the 15th.:yikes:

I kind of figured that it was just somebody who wasn't looking for a solution... :gaah:

[3 Wheel Addict]

Honestly I wouldn't be happy with a "rebuilt" engine in my new bike either but I can see BRP's point on this so I understand. My only fear would be the dealers ability to finish the job correctly and make damn sure they got the junk cleaned out of everything being reused, including the oil tank and all the hoses. If all is well then go for it......

[Magdave]

Honestly I wouldn't be happy with a "rebuilt" engine in my new bike either but I can see BRP's point on this so I understand. My only fear would be the dealers ability to finish the job correctly and make damn sure they got the junk cleaned out of everything being reused, including the oil tank and all the hoses. If all is well then go for it......
Serious 5k miles is not a "new" bike anymore or auto for that matter. Just sayin'.....

[effgjamis]

Florida has a " lemon law " in place but it does not over one failure events I don't have one here to read. But if my memory recall is working it covers repeated attempts by a dealer to repair a recurring problem to a motor vehicle. Say your engine failed three times or the dealer held it for a period in excess of 90 days. Then it would be subject to replacement. But as the complaint you must document all of your steps on pape. My spouse had a nephew that bought a Lexus that ate tires by the fourth set he lemon lawed it for a full refund to include interest.

Sorry Bob, but the florida lemon law does not cover motorcycles be they 2 or three wheels. Unless they have changed it in the last 2 years.

[Bob Denman]

He didn't get the memo... :gaah:

HEY!!! :lecturef_smilie: BIKES AREN'T COVERED UNDER FLORIDA'S LEMON LAWS!!!

[SpyderAnn01]

Guess he wasn't getting the answers he was looking for, he hasn't be back on SL since the 15th.:yikes:

It is a she not a he and she's not been on Facebook Grils on Spyders since then. I posted a link to this on Facebook so maybe she will see that BRP answered her.

[Netminder]

Maybe she is out riding!:ohyea::ohyea:

[SpyderAnn01]

Maybe she is out riding!:ohyea::ohyea:

Let's hope that is the case!

[Debedwards93]

Well, how is it running?

Sorry I haven't been back on. Been busy with school work.
The bike is running hotter than it originally did. I never had a heat problem. Also I was sitting at a stop light and the bike completely cut off. It also never did that before. I am trying to be optomistic. I will make a decision on whether I am keeping this after putting at least 1000 miles to break in the rebuilt engine.

Also I have not heard from the BRP rep since this bike has been returned to me.

[Jeriatric]

Don't have a '13 but have read many reports of them cutting off. The good news is. It should stop doing it once you have a few hundred miles on it. At least that is what has been reported here. All the best to you, and am glad to hear you're keeping an open mind. :thumbup:

[SpyderFun]

Rebuilt vs Restored

Not sure as far as bikes go but a "rebuilt" engine in aviation does NOT have to meet original OEM specs whereas a "restored" engines does.


-Mike
<Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)>

[NancysToy]

Rebuilt vs Restored

Not sure as far as bikes go but a "rebuilt" engine in aviation does NOT have to meet original OEM specs whereas a "restored" engines does.


-Mike
<Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)>
In automotive circles "restored" means something else, altogether, applying to antique vehicles. Automobiles and motorcyle engines are generally refered to as "rebuilt" or "remanufactured". Although BRP calls this a "rebuilt", their description above indicates to me that it would more correctly be called "remanufactured"...or even "blueprinted". In general engines that are "rebuilt" or "remanufactured" by the OEM manufacturer rather than a rebuild shop or a dealer, have closer scrutiny and better, cleaner assembly than engines off the production line. They are very carefull about tolerances and assembly techniques in the rebuild shop...and they are not trying to beat flat rate.

Another question comes to mind here, and if Steve from BRP could answer, it might ease some minds (or worry folks more). What does BRP consider to be a "short block"? In automotive circles it is a bare engine without the cylinder heads, whereas a "long block" is a bare engine with heads...and ofteny the water pump. BRP could look at it differently, considering a short block to be an engine without certain external parts, but having the heads installed. In that way the oiled parts would all be fresh, with no chance of contamination or damage, unless the external oiling system was not thoroughly cleaned (or replaced).

[Bob Denman]

:agree: We all could just be dancing around this game of semantics... :gaah:
Does anybody actually know what is considered to be a "short block" by BRP?

[cuznjohn]

a short block is like a light year, a light year has 20 % less calories than a regular year

[Bob Denman]

:D Good explanation! :roflblack:

[SpyderFun]

Not sure about "Short Block" but I can explain "Short Bus"!


-Mike
<Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)>

[Paws]

"a short block is like a light year, a light year has 20 % less calories than a regular year "

Are comments like these necessary??/

If it were my bike and I was trying to correct warranty issues, I would be disappointed in the
juvenile sarcasm posted here.

These aren't inexpensive pieces of equipment.

I sincerely hope Deb gets a satisfactory resolution.

For those who continue with the acerbic remarks, please try to be more understanding, or just DON'T comment

Remember,what goes around, comes around!!! JMHO

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Grab onto yourself... :shocked:
John was trying to keep the mood light; a trait that evidently escapes some folks in here... :banghead:
If he hadn't done it; I probably would have! :roflblack:

[NancysToy]

"a short block is like a light year, a light year has 20 % less calories than a regular year "

Are comments like these necessary??/

If it were my bike and I was trying to correct warranty issues, I would be disappointed in the
juvenile sarcasm posted here.

These aren't inexpensive pieces of equipment.

I sincerely hope Deb gets a satisfactory resolution.

For those who continue with the acerbic remarks, please try to be more understanding, or just DON'T comment

Remember,what goes around, comes around!!! JMHO
Speaking of ascerbic remarks.....

[Bob Denman]

Only 3 posts; I'm willing to give 'em a pass... :D

[cuznjohn]

"a short block is like a light year, a light year has 20 % less calories than a regular year "

Are comments like these necessary??/

If it were my bike and I was trying to correct warranty issues, I would be disappointed in the
juvenile sarcasm posted here.

These aren't inexpensive pieces of equipment.

I sincerely hope Deb gets a satisfactory resolution.

For those who continue with the acerbic remarks, please try to be more understanding, or just DON'T comment

Remember,what goes around, comes around!!! JMHO

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.png just my two cents
as a rule most engines that blow are replaced with a re manufactured one, even in cars. but i do feel you should call brp and ask for a new and not rebuilt. if you feel the top end might be contaminated with fragments tell them that also, and make sure you ask what kind of warranty you get with the new rebuilt motor. it will most likely be 1 year but get them to give you everything in writing.



http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.png don't get me wrong
i would be the biggest pest they had about getting a new motor but as long as i get full coverage on a re conditioned one there is nothing you can really do
i am dealing with heat issues and i feel for the person with engine problems, but we are at their mercy. so i was making a joke with my light year comment. i really need to read my book again. HOW TO MAKE FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE. and the way i have been attacked on here i should call my shrink, but he shot himself right after my last visit. I WONDER WHY ???

[DrewNJ]

This is what BRP gets for trying to go above and beyond....:lecturef_smilie:

What they should have done is tore the motor down, replaced only the failed parts and slapped it all back together. That type of repair would have gotten FAR LESS attention from the peanut gallery.

Isn't it time to move on?...:dontknow:

[Bob Denman]

:agree: Throw a chain across this one, and let's find something else to bicker about. :shocked:

[ARtraveler]

:agree: Throw a chain across this one, and let's find something else to bicker about. :shocked:


:agree::agree: It's getting a little old. :thumbup:

[Debedwards93]

:agree::agree: It's getting a little old. :thumbup:

Glad you are all having fun at my expense. I am sorry I bothered to get some advise and help here.
To all that did thank you.
I an still not happy with this rebuilt at this time. It is still cutting off. Did it again today at a stop light with alit of traffic. Didn't make this product look too good.
I hope none of you have to go through any of this. Maybe the smart asses.
Still trying to be optomistic...now I am even getting worse gas mileage too.
Not sure if it has anything to do with the new engine
But I really don't want to start anything else on this thread so wish you all the best and hope you don't have this problem.

[Magdave]

Glad you are all having fun at my expense. I am sorry I bothered to get some advise and help here.
To all that did thank you.
I an still not happy with this rebuilt at this time. It is still cutting off. Did it again today at a stop light with alit of traffic. Didn't make this product look too good.
I hope none of you have to go through any of this. Maybe the smart asses.
Still trying to be optomistic...now I am even getting worse gas mileage too.
Not sure if it has anything to do with the new engine
But I really don't want to start anything else on this thread so wish you all the best and hope you don't have this problem.
It takes while for the ECM to set the proper gas tables. A lot of us had stalling issues in the first 1000 miles. Unless you are getting a warning light keep riding it should stop after a while. It is somewhat normal with a new engine. Whether or not you believe you have a "new engine" even if it has been rebuilt. It takes some time to break in.

[NancysToy]

Glad you are all having fun at my expense. I am sorry I bothered to get some advise and help here.
To all that did thank you.
I an still not happy with this rebuilt at this time. It is still cutting off. Did it again today at a stop light with alit of traffic. Didn't make this product look too good.
I hope none of you have to go through any of this. Maybe the smart asses.
Still trying to be optomistic...now I am even getting worse gas mileage too.
Not sure if it has anything to do with the new engine
But I really don't want to start anything else on this thread so wish you all the best and hope you don't have this problem.
The stalling seems to be a mark of these 2013 engines and the fuel management system. It would be worrisome to me, too, but it does seem to disappear as your miles accumulate. That would indicate that it may have something to do with being a tight engine, which should encourage you that the engine is every bit as good as a brand new one. Still, I would be on the dealer (and BRP) real hard to get it running right. Whether or not "they all do it", stalling is unacceptable and can pose a serious safety hazard under some conditions. Maybe if more people report the problem to the NHTSA some pressure can be brought to bear. Nobody needs to be rear-ended because their vehicle stalled needlessly.

The drop in gas mileage is also often an indicator of a tight, new engine. The mileage usually increases after a few thousand miles. On the other hand, it could very likely be related to the stalling problem. If the dealer did not install new spark plug wires, that is the first place I would look. The OEM wires are crap, and they usually die about the first time they are removed. Ignition problems from bad plug wires can cause both stalling and a drop in fuel mileage. Time to lean on your dealer again. These sound like they are more problems with the work thatn the quality of the remanufactured engine. JMHO

[myronmathis]

My engine blew back in May, I have an RS-S 2011. They diagnosed it and determined that a timing chain had broken and literally destroyed the inside of the engine. They replaced it with a new one from the manufacture, I made sure by taking it to my mechanic that does not work for the dealer, he assured me that it is a new engine. I think that it's ridiculous that BRP would not replace your engine with a new one, with all of the money they make selling these spyders you would think that they would want to maintain some type of good reputation with the owners of the vehicles.

[SpyderAnn01]

The stalling seems to be a mark of these 2013 engines and the fuel management system.

Scotty, she has a 2012 not a 2013.

[cuznjohn]

i have never had my bike stall but i do have very bad gas millage

[jcthorne]

My engine blew back in May, I have an RS-S 2011. They diagnosed it and determined that a timing chain had broken and literally destroyed the inside of the engine. They replaced it with a new one from the manufacture, I made sure by taking it to my mechanic that does not work for the dealer, he assured me that it is a new engine. I think that it's ridiculous that BRP would not replace your engine with a new one, with all of the money they make selling these spyders you would think that they would want to maintain some type of good reputation with the owners of the vehicles.

With all due respect to your mechanic, unless he removed the engine and tore it down, there is no way he could tell new from factory rebuilt. Even if he did tear it down, would be doubtful. You got a factory BRP engine alright but likely not 'new' just new to you.

[Bob Denman]

When these engines are fresh; they seem to want to stall at some of the least opportune times for a coupl eof hundred miles... Once they get their throats cleared; :thumbup:
Deb,
The humor wasn't at your expense; it was just trying to keep folks calm... :shocked: nojoke
As I said earlier; if John hadn't done it, I probably would have... no insult was ever intended!

[Farmbanker]

Your timing chain broke too? I wonder how often that happens. That is what happened to my 2012 RTS.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk

[Omcge]

Glad you are all having fun at my expense. I am sorry I bothered to get some advise and help here.
To all that did thank you.
I an still not happy with this rebuilt at this time. It is still cutting off. Did it again today at a stop light with alit of traffic. Didn't make this product look too good.
I hope none of you have to go through any of this. Maybe the smart asses.
Still trying to be optomistic...now I am even getting worse gas mileage too.
Not sure if it has anything to do with the new engine
But I really don't want to start anything else on this thread so wish you all the best and hope you don't have this problem.


I had a Idle-stalling issue at about the 800 mile mark on my 13 Rt but it went away with the next fill up.
I'ts been no problem since 3000 miles, so I think my problem was a fuel (old or water ??) issue.

[ARtraveler]

Glad you are all having fun at my expense. I am sorry I bothered to get some advise and help here.
To all that did thank you.
I an still not happy with this rebuilt at this time. It is still cutting off. Did it again today at a stop light with alit of traffic. Didn't make this product look too good.
I hope none of you have to go through any of this. Maybe the smart asses.
Still trying to be optomistic...now I am even getting worse gas mileage too.
Not sure if it has anything to do with the new engine
But I really don't want to start anything else on this thread so wish you all the best and hope you don't have this problem.

Most of us had no problem with you the OP. You have a legitimate problem and question. I believe the problem comes in when issues from other never-ending threads come in and re-present themselves. That is specifically what I was complaining about. Did not mean to offend you. You have a legitimate beef IMO. :thumbup:

[MouthPiece]

I've been gone for about a month so I know it wasn't me.

Chris

[Magdave]

I think she has gotten way too emotional on this at this point. They are machines not perpetual motion devices and eventually will break down, some sooner than others. If she wasn't checking her oil every 300mi she did contribute to it. It is part of the owners responsibility. I learned long ago (40yrs) to check after an oil change. Those who keep telling her she has a legitimate complaint are simply wrong and have added wood to the fire. BRP lived up to their responsibility and even posted on this thread about it. She has gotten exactly what she paid for and in a timely manner. We all know these bikes can be quirky. 2012,2013 doesn't matter all of them had some stalling issues with a new motor break in. Getting emotional like this about a machine is nonsensical. We all do sometimes but mostly it is anger over perceived inadequacies that may be real or not. Logic should prevail. If it doesn't start running as it should it will require another trip to the dealer until then coming here and making accusations against the people that have provided good and useful information is not a good way to get any in the future. At this point I agree with the " Wrap a chain around this thread" comment. I think it has run it's course. :thumbup:

[Debedwards93]

I did read it and did question the dealer!!!! They said as long as I was brining it to them for service I didn't have to check it. They did not burn oil and will go 4000 miles before needing a change or anything. After this rebuilt issue my dealer told me to bring it in after 2000 miles to check it now!! I might bring it to them to check it...but as far as a service goes I will bring it somewhere else for as long as I have it!!


Deb, when you read your Owner's Manual and it said to check your oil every 300 miles didn't it occur to you to question your dealer on why they would say to never check your oil?

[Debedwards93]

Thank you...I will not come back to this site though. Some people on here are just too rude. I was here for advise and help and got mostly crap. Then I came back on and read the last post, by Magdave.. That is why I won't be back here. I like the way the Spyder rides but their customer service stinks. I have not even heard from the BRP rep since it was returned. I am probably going to trade it in on a Tri-Glide.

Thank you!

Yes we can end this thread!!



Most of us had no problem with you the OP. You have a legitimate problem and question. I believe the problem comes in when issues from other never-ending threads come in and re-present themselves. That is specifically what I was complaining about. Did not mean to offend you. You have a legitimate beef IMO. :thumbup:

[Magdave]

I did read it and did question the dealer!!!! They said as long as I was brining it to them for service I didn't have to check it. They did not burn oil and will go 4000 miles before needing a change or anything. After this rebuilt issue my dealer told me to bring it in after 2000 miles to check it now!! I might bring it to them to check it...but as far as a service goes I will bring it somewhere else for as long as I have it!!

Your owners manual said different, every 300mi check the oil ( around page 120). If you had come here sooner and learned what is needed you would know that. There a lot of less than perfect dealers you could have read about that too. It is YOUR responsibility to read the owners manual from cover to cover it is important to do so and follow what is said in it. Sorry you feel the way you do but you are not helping your cause by returning with emotional outbursts and acting like we did something wrong by telling you the truth. I guess you did not read your own thread the BRP rep DID comment on it.

[DrewNJ]

Thank you...I will not come back to this site though. Some people on here are just too rude. I was here for advise and help and got mostly crap. Then I came back on and read the last post, by Magdave.. That is why I won't be back here. I like the way the Spyder rides but their customer service stinks. I have not even heard from the BRP rep since it was returned. I am probably going to trade it in on a Tri-Glide.

Thank you!

Yes we can end this thread!!

IMHO you came here NOT looking for knowledge or advice. You came here looking to rile up the troops because you feel like you were wronged when you didn't get a "new" motor. Even when knowledgeable people try to assure you that BRP did indeed do right, you still didn't listen. Now your going to act like a child and take your kickball and go home......goodbye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[Bob Denman]

Thank you...I will not come back to this site though. Some people on here are just too rude.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_202.gif Good-bye! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_202.gif


Enjoy your Tri-Glide! :thumbup: (Get the 2014; H.D. is addressing THEIR heat issues with the new model...)

[Jeriatric]

Most women just want someone to listen. Most men hear them but can't just listen. They naturally want to fix whatever it is.

Deb, you're not the first here to be misunderstood and chances are you won't be the last.

Best of luck - whatever you do.

[Bob Denman]

:agree: I tell my Missus; "Complain all you want to your girlfriends; bring the problem to me once you're ready for a solution."
And she STILL doesn't get it! :gaah: :D

[Magdave]

Most women just want someone to listen. Most men hear them but can't just listen. They naturally want to fix whatever it is.

Deb, you're not the first here to be misunderstood and chances are you won't be the last.

Best of luck - whatever you do.

It is not the complaint it is the refusal to hear the answer and attack those that have tried to help :thumbup:

[bruiser]

In my previous job we replaced engines. On the older ford 4 cylinders we couldn't get new engines any longer so reman short blocks were offered to the customer. Note: this was on specialized equipment, not vehicles. The reman engines worked great and we never had any issues with them. These engines included heads, intake and exhaust manifolds, water pumps and on gas engines, new fuel pumps. On LP engines we had to reuse the intake manifolds because of the mixer valves and LP regulators (LP carbs).

Equipment that used the GM engines had new engines installed because remans weren't available.

[Tango]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_202.gif Good-bye! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_202.gif


Enjoy your Tri-Glide! :thumbup: (Get the 2014; H.D. is addressing THEIR heat issues with the new model...)

From what I heard, lots of water leaks on those new "wet heads". :chat: Tom :trike:

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: I hadn't heard that yet.... :yikes:
What else have you got on this issue??

[jcthorne]

Most folks are about as happy as they decide to be.

[Dragonrider]

Ride a Tri, before you buy - I couldn't get past the 1946 E-brake - cracked me up. If I were going trike, I'd go for a BMW or Honda - smooth, quiet, all the bells & whistles you would ever want, and 100K+ reliability. If Hardley ever puts the VR motor in a trike, I might take another look. JMHO....

[Bob Denman]

Just remember; :lecturef_smilie: those conversions won't be covered by a warranty! :shocked:
The Tri-Glides ride rougher, and their controls all take a lot more effort...
But they do look great!

[JkRbbt]

Just remember; :lecturef_smilie: those conversions won't be covered by a warranty! :shocked:
The Tri-Glides ride rougher, and their controls all take a lot more effort...
But they do look great!

Which is exactly why I hope this is the year BRP gets it all TOGETHER!! :thumbup: :pray: