got my buds report today BUT!!!!

[cuznjohn]

who knows how to read it, all i can make out is

MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM
RPM INTAKE ( PSI ) INTAKE ( F ) EXHAUST ( F ) ENGINE ( F ) BATTER
MAXIMUM 9560 14 102 -54 236 15.10

MINIMUM 0 3 -39 -54 56 10.90

NOW the engine temp at idle is 236 degrees is that considered hot. the buds report is like 4 pages long and most of it is code numbers so i have no clue how to read it, but this is the report that brp called me on and said my bike is running hot with.

[Bob Denman]

JOhn,
Do you think that they gave you that version of the report; knowing full well that it'd be undecipherable? :shocked: :dontknow:

[Magdave]

who knows how to read it, all i can make out is

MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM
RPM INTAKE ( PSI ) INTAKE ( F ) EXHAUST ( F ) ENGINE ( F ) BATTER
MAXIMUM 9560 14 102 -54 236 15.10

MINIMUM 0 3 -39 -54 56 10.90

NOW the engine temp at idle is 236 degrees is that considered hot. the buds report is like 4 pages long and most of it is code numbers so i have no clue how to read it, but this is the report that brp called me on and said my bike is running hot with.

236 is hot it should be under 220. Most stats are fully open at 180 but depending on all other factors the engine will run in the 200-220 range if everything is working OK. With 236 I assume your fan is on all the time? If not then it would at 240. I can relate to my Corvette the fans will come on at 230 and stay on till it drops below 220. It usually runs 215-220 going down the road. The upper limit of safe operating temp is when the fan kicks in on any engine.

[cuznjohn]

236 is hot it should be under 220. Most stats are fully open at 180 but depending on all other factors the engine will run in the 200-220 range if everything is working OK. With 236 I assume your fan is on all the time? If not then it would at 240. I can relate to my Corvette the fans will come on at 230 and stay on till it drops below 220. It usually runs 215-220 going down the road. The upper limit of safe operating temp is when the fan kicks in on any engine.

my fan comes on quite a bit when the bike is running. today it was cold out around 50 degrees and it was running at 3 bars on the temp gauge as soon as i got on side streets going to the dealer the temp was at 3/4 of the way up almost to the hot mark/

[Magdave]

I can only relate to Corvette heat issues but here are some of the causes
1. Air in the coolant loop prevents proper cooling.
2 AF ratio too lean not enough gas does not help the cylinder cool down
3. Coolant pump not functioning properly
4. Thermostat installed backwards
5. Cat/exhaust issues

I wish I could give you a fix but those are the main causes I have found on Corvettes.

[OldCowboy]

The upper limit of safe operating temp is when the fan kicks in on any engine.

That's a bit of an overstatement. The absolute upper limit of safe operating temp is just before the radiator starts boiling over. For a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water, and a 15 psi radiator cap, that temperature is 264F. Now obviously, you wouldn't want the fan to wait until then to kick in, so vehicles are engineered to start the fan quite a ways before that. Like anything else, there is some variability in the exact start temp, even in a single production run of vehicles. According to the maintenance manual, the cooling fan should activate at 214F and stay on until the coolant temp drops to 207F.

The line of maximums appears to be the highest numbers recorded for those entities since John bought the Spyder. So, it's doubtful that the 236 was at idle, although it could have been on a restart after stopping for gas. Presumably, that 236 is 236F, although looking at the intake and exhaust numbers, it's clear that those numbers are not temperatures. There are vagaries about the report that make it difficult for someone who is not properly trained to interpret them.

[billybovine]

Now hitting a maximum engine temp of 236 at one time during it's life does not sound unreasonable. This could happen for example on a hot day and you stop for gas for a couple minutes. The engine will heat soak because the cooling system is not running. When you start it up the ecm will record this high temp but the engine temp will drop quickly as the coolant starts flowing.

[Magdave]

That's a bit of an overstatement. The absolute upper limit of safe operating temp is just before the radiator starts boiling over. For a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water, and a 15 psi radiator cap, that temperature is 264F. Now obviously, you wouldn't want the fan to wait until then to kick in, so vehicles are engineered to start the fan quite a ways before that. Like anything else, there is some variability in the exact start temp, even in a single production run of vehicles. According to the maintenance manual, the cooling fan should activate at 214F and stay on until the coolant temp drops to 207F.

Thanks I suspected it would be a little lower on this engine. It was just an example based on the LT engine. I would bet the Stat open temp is the same and since the smaller coolant capacity is reason for the lower kick in. When I mentioned the safe operating temp it is not up to boil over but what is recommended (and set) in the ECM for the fan to kick in. You can run a corvette up to 250 before the check engine light pops and limp mode kicks in.:thumbup:

[billybovine]

my fan comes on quite a bit when the bike is running. today it was cold out around 50 degrees and it was running at 3 bars on the temp gauge as soon as i got on side streets going to the dealer the temp was at 3/4 of the way up almost to the hot mark/

That sounds normal to me. Please explain the problem?

[Magdave]

That sounds normal to me. Please explain the problem?

Mine hardly ever goes above 1/2 unless sitting in traffic so 3/4 while moving is not normal.

" the cooling fan should activate at 214F and stay on until the coolant temp drops to 207F. " is normal and my fan does not kick in till over 5 full bars so 5 bars must= 214 Hitting 236 is extremely abnormal and indicates a problem.

[SNOOPY]

I don't know about motorcycles but 236 sounds high to me...especially on a 50 degree day!

[SNOOPY]

I can only relate to Corvette heat issues but here are some of the causes
1. Air in the coolant loop prevents proper cooling.
2 AF ratio too lean not enough gas does not help the cylinder cool down
3. Coolant pump not functioning properly
4. Thermostat installed backwards
5. Cat/exhaust issues

I wish I could give you a fix but those are the main causes I have found on Corvettes.


Good post :thumbup:

[OldCowboy]

I think there is some confusion with the use of "bars." It appears to me that some are using the tick marks on the analog temp gauge when referring to 'bars', while others are referring to the number of bars on the digital temp gauge. It would be handy if folks would denote the gauge they're using.

Also, we know the digital gas gauge is much more accurate than the analog gauge. Is that also the case for the temp gauges?

[billybovine]

Mine hardly ever goes above 1/2 unless sitting in traffic so 3/4 while moving is not normal.

" the cooling fan should activate at 214F and stay on until the coolant temp drops to 207F. " is normal and my fan does not kick in till over 5 full bars so 5 bars must= 214

If your temp is always under half that's not normal. Normal range is 3 to 6 bars and the total scale is 9. (Digital Gage) He did not say his fan was not running or did I miss that. Also in another post he said his fan runs a lot. So it works. As he explained while running on the highway he was running at 3 bars. On a cold day that's normal. When he slow down for side street the engine temp increased to 3/4 that's 5 or 6 bars. That is also normal. So again I don't understand the problem.

[billybovine]

I don't know about motorcycles but 236 sounds high to me...especially on a 50 degree day!

You are misreading the report. That is the maximum it has recorded in it's life, not at the moment the report was done. It also says the minimum was 56 so it can't be 236 and 56 at the same time.

[Magdave]

I think there is some confusion with the use of "bars." It appears to me that some are using the tick marks on the analog temp gauge when referring to 'bars', while others are referring to the number of bars on the digital temp gauge. It would be handy if folks would denote the gauge they're using.

Also, we know the digital gas gauge is much more accurate than the analog gauge. Is that also the case for the temp gauges?

I think the digital temp gauge is more accurate IMHO but just hitting 5 bars does not kick in the fan I believe each bar has a range and #5 might be 210-220 which is why it sometimes kicks in on 5 bars when it is about to go to 6. At 6 it is on.:thumbup: Personally anyone with heat issues should unplug the analog they are notoriously in accurate unless the are using a stepper motor which I bet BRP is not doing if they bounce. Stepper motor gauges stay pretty solid in position and are gear driven. My guess is BRP uses bi metallic gauges that work on voltage heating one side of the spring mechanism.

[Magdave]

If your temp is always under half that's not normal. Normal range is 3 to 6 bars and the total scale is 9. (Digital Gage) He did not say his fan was not running or did I miss that. Also in another post he said his fan runs a lot. So it works. As he explained while running on the highway he was running at 3 bars. On a cold day that's normal. When he slow down for side street the engine temp increased to 3/4 that's 5 or 6 bars. That is also normal. So again I don't understand the problem.
5 is a lot closer to 1/2 , 6 2/3 , 7 3/4. I have never seen 7 even on 100deg days in traffic.

[cuznjohn]

this was not done today it was done a couple of weeks ago when the heat fix was done. but does anyone else have their buds reports to compare temp readings just to see what is the highest and a normal reading is

[jwulf74]

Has anyone replaced the analog gauge with one with a digital number readout?

I like numbers instead of arbitrary bars...

[3 Wheel Addict]

My BUDS report shows max temp at 225. Batter is battery minimum and maximum voltage. All those reading in that line are minimums and maximums, intake (psi) is manifold pressures, intake (F temp) is temps of the air the engine is breathing, exhaust (F temp) mine shows -54 assuming the dealer can't take this reading so it's defaulting to that -54 could be a probe they have to buy? Engine (F temp) is your minimum and maximum temp, then your battery volts. The one that has got me confused is on page 3 if you got it all, look down to "steering angle sensor" mine is 6.25 and I read on here somewhere that Lamont posted something about if this is over 4.xx then it will set a code? Can anybody confirm this??? Not jacking your thread just curious.

[Magdave]

Has anyone replaced the analog gauge with one with a digital number readout?

I like numbers instead of arbitrary bars...
That is even more accurate than the bar method and I have seen some members do that. Not sure where they got them from.

[billybovine]

Has anyone replaced the analog gauge with one with a digital number readout?

I like numbers instead of arbitrary bars...

I remember someone doing it maybe a year or two ago. I did a search but could not find anything.

[cuznjohn]

My BUDS report shows max temp at 225. Batter is battery minimum and maximum voltage. All those reading in that line are minimums and maximums, intake (psi) is manifold pressures, intake (F temp) is temps of the air the engine is breathing, exhaust (F temp) mine shows -54 assuming the dealer can't take this reading so it's defaulting to that -54 could be a probe they have to buy? Engine (F temp) is your minimum and maximum temp, then your battery volts. The one that has got me confused is on page 3 if you got it all, look down to "steering angle sensor" mine is 6.25 and I read on here somewhere that Lamont posted something about if this is over 4.xx then it will set a code? Can anybody confirm this??? Not jacking your thread just curious.

mine is on page 4 and the reading is 27.00

[BajaRon]

who knows how to read it, all i can make out is

MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM
RPM INTAKE ( PSI ) INTAKE ( F ) EXHAUST ( F ) ENGINE ( F ) BATTER
MAXIMUM 9560 14 102 -54 236 15.10

MINIMUM 0 3 -39 -54 56 10.90

NOW the engine temp at idle is 236 degrees is that considered hot. the buds report is like 4 pages long and most of it is code numbers so i have no clue how to read it, but this is the report that brp called me on and said my bike is running hot with.

I would think this data would be for the dealer to use in making repairs to your Spyder. Surely they don't expect you to troubleshoot this???

[Barlock]

who knows how to read it, all i can make out is

MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM
RPM INTAKE ( PSI ) INTAKE ( F ) EXHAUST ( F ) ENGINE ( F ) BATTER
MAXIMUM 9560 14 102 -54 236 15.10

MINIMUM 0 3 -39 -54 56 10.90

NOW the engine temp at idle is 236 degrees is that considered hot. the buds report is like 4 pages long and most of it is code numbers so i have no clue how to read it, but this is the report that brp called me on and said my bike is running hot with.

A few things look a bit confusing to me. How could Min and Max Exhaust temperature be not only the same but actually -54F? Unless I misread it. And another one - have you, John, experienced an ambient temperature of -39F? Because this is what this table shows under min Intake temperature.



RPM

INTAKE ( PSI )

INTAKE ( F )

EXHAUST ( F )

ENGINE ( F )

BATTER



MAXIMUM

9560

14

102

-54

236

15.10



MINIMUM


3

-39

-54

56

10.90

[cuznjohn]

A few things look a bit confusing to me. How could Min and Max Exhaust temperature be not only the same but actually -54F? Unless I misread it. And another one - did you, John, experienced an ambient temperature of -39F? Because this is what this table shows under min Intake temperature.



RPM
INTAKE ( PSI )
INTAKE ( F )
EXHAUST ( F )
ENGINE ( F )
BATTER


MAXIMUM
9560
14
102
-54
236
15.10


MINIMUM
0
3
-39
-54
56
10.90











i don't remember what it was when they did the test but your readings are the same as mine, so do you feel the heat is bad on your bike, and did anything melt on your bike, my canister melted so they had the bike for a week waiting for the part

[Barlock]

i don't remember what it was when they did the test but your readings are the same as mine, so do you feel the heat is bad on your bike, and did anything melt on your bike, my canister melted so they had the bike for a week waiting for the part

Sorry, John, for misleading you, but those were your readings. I just put them into a more readable (table) format. And to answer your questions, I did not have any of those problems (yet), but then again, I bought my bike only 2 months ago. Will see how it performs in the future, but for now it is parked for winter.

[3 Wheel Addict]

A few things look a bit confusing to me. How could Min and Max Exhaust temperature be not only the same but actually -54F? Unless I misread it. And another one - have you, John, experienced an ambient temperature of -39F? Because this is what this table shows under min Intake temperature.



RPM

INTAKE ( PSI )

INTAKE ( F )

EXHAUST ( F )

ENGINE ( F )

BATTER



MAXIMUM

9560

14

102

-54

236

15.10



MINIMUM


3

-39

-54

56

10.90












The -54 is most likely because the dealer don't have the exhaust temp probe or it's a feature that BRP do allow the dealer to get. I wonder if he actually had a 39 instead of -39 that would make more sense, -39 would be artic circle temps... brrrr

[cuznjohn]

The -54 is most likely because the dealer don't have the exhaust temp probe or it's a feature that BRP do allow the dealer to get. I wonder if he actually had a 39 instead of -39 that would make more sense, -39 would be artic circle temps... brrrr

what temp does the gas boil at. i have 150 degrees at the cap but someone said they couldn't touch the cap and heard the gas boiling. i was just talking to a friend and he said the temp of the engine was really hot now i am wondering what other bikes are running at

[billybovine]

The -54 is most likely because the dealer don't have the exhaust temp probe or it's a feature that BRP do allow the dealer to get. I wonder if he actually had a 39 instead of -39 that would make more sense, -39 would be artic circle temps... brrrr

Can't blame the dealer for the readings. The report is just a printout of the stored values in memory. The engine was not even running at the time the report was generated. There is no exhaust temp probe so there is no data to report so the -54 is just a default value. The -39 value for intake is likely another default value that has never been exceeded.

The data looks good. No engine issues in this data. The RPM did exceed max by 60 rpm but that was likely just momentum after the rev limiter kicked in.

[cuznjohn]

i have no clue what is going on with the readings but i am wondering if anyone else that is having heat problems have their buds reports so we can compare numbers, i looked it up for the temp that gas boils at this is what i found

The boiling point of a substance is the temperature at which molecules within a substance begin to vaporize. Gasoline will boil at temperatures ranging from 100 - 400 degrees Fahrenheit. Gasoline will ignite at 495 degrees Fahrenheit.

so there is little chance of a explosion with the temps we are getting on the bikes,,, i hope

[3 Wheel Addict]

i have no clue what is going on with the readings but i am wondering if anyone else that is having heat problems have their buds reports so we can compare numbers, i looked it up for the temp that gas boils at this is what i found

The boiling point of a substance is the temperature at which molecules within a substance begin to vaporize. Gasoline will boil at temperatures ranging from 100 - 400 degrees Fahrenheit. Gasoline will ignite at 495 degrees Fahrenheit.

so there is little chance of a explosion with the temps we are getting on the bikes,,, i hope

Yes but gasoline turns into vapor easily at heated temps and vapors can explode. My dealer recorded 153 on my cap and that's inline with the results I have been recording. Even my lawn mower has a sticker that says not to fill when hot. From some of the posts on here and a few PM's I believe we will have a fix soon but it will most likely be in the spring of next year. With winter coming on i'm ok with that. My dealer told me last night that he will be willing to put my bike back on the showroom floor and give me a "long term" loaner 14 model till we get it sold. That was great news from him and I suppose he don't even have to do that, but I told him all I want is my bike fixed and if nothing gets done then that's the next option. I feel now my dealer has his hands tied and knows nothing of a fix in the works. When BRP get's something going that "IS" going to be a fix then the dealers will be made aware. Another fix right after the recall could put people with no problems into panic mode so I have stepped back and looked at this from a manufacture's standpoint and I could see it. They (BRP) could save face if they would just tell the people that are complaining that "were working on a fix".