My Laser Alignment Experience...

[BajaRon]

Finally got the chance to get the Lamonster Laser Alignment.

Not that long ago, Lamont and I replaced both tie rods and all 8 A-Arm bushings. Then we PAINSTAKINGLY did an alignment by the numbers and by the BRP book. We checked and double checked until we were sure it was right on.

But, as it turns out, I was about 1.5" out. Granted, this is at 74". I'll let Scotty do the math for what I was actually out at the wheel. But the very reason 74" is used is to exaggerate the deflection which then gives you an EXTREMELY accurate final result. Believe me, your Spyder will appreciate it! :thumbup:

I really didn't have any complaints about my BRP Book alignment. One of the reasons Lamont and I wanted to check my Spyder is specifically because we had done the BRP book alignment previously and we wanted to see how it stacked up to the Laser method.

And to be frank, the BRP alignment method seemed to be fine and was worlds better than what I had before. But my satisfaction was based on the improvement from worse, not on a comparison to Right On. As it turns out, I am much happier now. I didn't know what I was missing.

My Spyder just loves to go straight now. Not that I thought it was a problem before. But it's definitely better now.

My Spyder also turns easier. Like cranking up the power steering input. Not drastic, but noticeable.

The Laser Alighment is definitely worth the effort.

Since Lamont doesn't charge if you don't need correction, seems to me a 'No-Brainer' to at least get your Spyder checked. Even if you think you're happy with it now.

Who knows! I may even see the improved fuel mileage that some have experienced. :ohyea:

[3 Wheel Addict]

Problem is he's no where near me to get mine checked. Guess i'm stuck till someone near me get's the system and learns how to use it!

[ThreeFeet]

I came back after an almost 3000 mi trip and took mine into Cowtown to give it a once over. They did the lazer alignment and there is a 180 degree difference between the old way and this new way!!! It's almost like I have a brand new bike. I don't have to fight so much to get her around corners and it's almost like I REALLY have the best power stearing EVER!!!! The guys all said my bike had a Drastic change for the better. I LOVE IT!!!!:ohyea::2thumbs::firstplace:

[Yazz]

Lamont did mine down in Florida a bit ago. Turns out both my front tires were both heading to the right a bit.

Saw some difference going straight, but the big difference is the left hand turns are now as easy as the right hand turns.

[RBS66]

Hi Ron, I had my alignment and one of your bars installed last Friday at Blackmans. Your bar is awesome what a huge improvement. As far as my alignment I have to go back to them Saturday or Tuesday and have a little more tweaking done my handlebars cock to the left and my left turn signal will not cancel now. Also the bike still seems a little Squirrley.
BUT THANKS AGAIN FOR THE BAR.

[NancysToy]

I was hoping you would do this for comparison. Thanks so much for reporting the difference. I think you put it quite well,,,no need to do the math, using longer distance exaggerates any deviation, and makes the results super accurate. All alignment specs have a small tolerance allowed. This tiny deviation can be detrimental on the Spyder. If it is available in your area, the Outlaw alignment is certainly the way to go. Like Ron, you won't know what you are missing until you feel the results.

[docdoru]

Who knows! I may even see the improved fuel mileage that some have experienced. :ohyea:
30 miles plus/tank in 3 consecutive tanks. nojoke

[NancysToy]

30 miles plus/tank in 3 consecutive tanks. nojoke

With your wrist that is not only an improvement...it's a miracle! :roflblack:

[BajaRon]

Hi Ron, I had my alignment and one of your bars installed last Friday at Blackmans. Your bar is awesome what a huge improvement. As far as my alignment I have to go back to them Saturday or Tuesday and have a little more tweaking done my handlebars cock to the left and my left turn signal will not cancel now. Also the bike still seems a little Squirrley.
BUT THANKS AGAIN FOR THE BAR.

Glad you like the bar! Too bad it doesn't correct alignment issues.... I'm working on that! :rolleyes:

I hope they are doing BUDS on your alignment. Sounds like your problem may be bigger than just BUDS. But proper alignment can't be done without BUDS.

[Lamonster]

Hi Ron, I had my alignment and one of your bars installed last Friday at Blackmans. Your bar is awesome what a huge improvement. As far as my alignment I have to go back to them Saturday or Tuesday and have a little more tweaking done my handlebars cock to the left and my left turn signal will not cancel now. Also the bike still seems a little Squirrley.
BUT THANKS AGAIN FOR THE BAR.
For sure they didn't start with the bars straight and zero your steering angle sensor. They need to do that now and realign your Spyder and then check your steering angle sensor and torque sensor again.

By by the way Rolo/Outlaw now are convinced that having BUDS is required when doing proper alignment and has sent an email stating this to all their dealers. That still requires you to know how to use BUDS ;)

[OJ UK]

Harrrummmph!:gaah:.....Can't get this done in the UK!!

[Lamonster]

30 miles plus/tank in 3 consecutive tanks. nojoke

As hard as yours was scrubbing I don't doubt it Bro. :doorag:

[bullant12]

For sure they didn't start with the bars straight and zero your steering angle sensor. They need to do that now and realign your Spyder and then check your steering angle sensor and torque sensor again.

By by the way Rolo/Outlaw now are convinced that having BUDS is required when doing proper alignment and has sent an email stating this to all their dealers. That still requires you to know how to use BUDS ;)

:agree: Many of the :spyder2: that got aligned were placed on BUDS and it showed being off a few degrees. That can make a big difference, especially if you don't want Miss Nanny to get :banghead: at you and start throwing codes...

[RBS66]

For sure they didn't start with the bars straight and zero your steering angle sensor. They need to do that now and realign your Spyder and then check your steering angle sensor and torque sensor again.

By by the way Rolo/Outlaw now are convinced that having BUDS is required when doing proper alignment and has sent an email stating this to all their dealers. That still requires you to know how to use BUDS ;)

Yes they did use the BUD system but not till the end. Should they have used the BUDs in the beginning to re-zero Steering angle sensor?
thanks Rob

[Lamonster]

Yes they did use the BUD system but not till the end. Should they have used the BUDs in the beginning to re-zero Steering angle sensor?
thanks Rob

You need to start with your bars straight. They should have a jig to lock it in if they can't get a good eyeball on it. They they would check the steering angle sensor to make sure it's at zero, if not they would then zero it out along with the torque sensor. Then they would do the alinement. After the alignment is done they should check it again but if they held the laser on target while doing the adjustment it should be pretty darn close.

[BajaRon]

Yes they did use the BUD system but not till the end. Should they have used the BUDs in the beginning to re-zero Steering angle sensor?
thanks Rob

As Lamont says; not only is BUDS required, but the person using BUDS has to know what they are doing to get an accurate alignment.

You can imagine what the end result is going to be if your bars are turned, even slightly, while doing an alignment, Laser or otherwise. If the bars are turned a few degrees and you tell the sensor that the bars are straight, you've got issues before you even get started. The Laser process assumes that you have got the steering mechanism zeroed. If not, you're wasting your time.

I know Lamont spends a lot of time making sure that everything is right before he sends you away for a test ride. And he also has tricks up his sleeve for the few Spyders that just don't want to cooperate.

Laser is UBER accurate. But if not done properly, Laser can be very accurately wrong...

Hang in there. I'm sure you're efforts will help your guys refine their procedure.

[gypsy_100]

You need to start with your bars straight. They should have a jig to lock it in if they can't get a good eyeball on it. They they would check the steering angle sensor to make sure it's at zero, if not they would then zero it out along with the torque sensor. Then they would do the alinement. After the alignment is done they should check it again but if they held the laser on target while doing the adjustment it should be pretty darn close.

If I recall the manual correctly, the jig is required for a conventional alignment. Hence all dealers should have one and be familiar with it. It seems like Outlaw should specify using that jig as the first step, if one is available. I guess the non-dealers could rely on the eyeball technique.

I had mine done at Blackman's this week. It was correct as-is. At 74", it is off 1/8" which is not worth trying to correct as you might make it worse or at least not any better. So with 30,000 miles on the bike, my alignment is good and has been. At least now I know. Worth the price, which by the way, was only half the normal price. Since they didn't have to make any adjustments, Blackman's only charged me half. How fair is that!

[Lamonster]

If I recall the manual correctly, the jig is required for a conventional alignment. Hence all dealers should have one and be familiar with it. It seems like Outlaw should specify using that jig as the first step, if one is available. I guess the non-dealers could rely on the eyeball technique.

I had mine done at Blackman's this week. It was correct as-is. At 74", it is off 1/8" which is not worth trying to correct as you might make it worse or at least not any better. So with 30,000 miles on the bike, my alignment is good and has been. At least now I know. Worth the price, which by the way, was only half the normal price. Since they didn't have to make any adjustments, Blackman's only charged me half. How fair is that!


That's great. I've only had a few that were close enough that I didn't do an adjustment. I don't charge anything if I don't put a wrench to the rods. :doorag:

[RBS66]

Thank you Lamont and Baja Ron, I have an appointment with my dealer on Tuesday. My bike is running very rough at 80 miles an hour felt very squarely and lots of vibration in the ass end after my alignment. It felt like it wanted to be put back into fourth gear. Also there are 18 weights on my front left tire.
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP GUYs

[BajaRon]

If I recall the manual correctly, the jig is required for a conventional alignment. Hence all dealers should have one and be familiar with it. It seems like Outlaw should specify using that jig as the first step, if one is available. I guess the non-dealers could rely on the eyeball technique.

I had mine done at Blackman's this week. It was correct as-is. At 74", it is off 1/8" which is not worth trying to correct as you might make it worse or at least not any better. So with 30,000 miles on the bike, my alignment is good and has been. At least now I know. Worth the price, which by the way, was only half the normal price. Since they didn't have to make any adjustments, Blackman's only charged me half. How fair is that!

The jig is supposed to be foolproof but it seems obvious to me that not all, or even most dealerships have this devise, much less are familiar with it or the proper alignment process.

Just listening to the number of posts (plus PM's, emails and phone conversations) describing a dealership saying that abnormal tire wear, pulling to one side, or steering harder in one direction than in the other are 'Normal', 'They all do that', 'There is noting that can be done to fix that' means to me that many dealerships are not prepared to do any form of alignment service.

I know of other dealerships that will simply make a 1/4 or 1/2 turn on the tie rod adjusters hoping to improve alignment. You may laugh but I was in a dealership when a salesman told a couple riding an RT that they would do this very thing. They were there because the insides of their tires were completely gone after only a few thousand miles while the rest of their front tires looked brand new.

At least the dealership acknowledged it was a 'Fixable' alignment issue.

I almost said something to the owners about this dubious approach to the problem. I still feel a bit guilty for not at least voicing my concerns. But I figured who are they going to believe? An authorized BRP dealership employee or some guy they never met.

I still wonder how that worked out. It would be nothing short of a miracle if it didn't cause a bigger problem.

As I said, the 'Centering Tool' is probably fail-safe but it is obvious to me that someone with a good deal of experience, like Lamont and others, can center the steering accurately without the tool. Many examples of this can be sighted including my Spyder. As in most mechanical situations, it comes down to the expertise, experience and integrity of the one doing the work.

[gypsy_100]

That's great. I've only had a few that were close enough that I didn't do an adjustment. I don't charge anything if I don't put a wrench to the rods. :doorag:

Now that is more than fair!




As I said, the 'Centering Tool' is probably fail-safe but it is obvious to me that someone with a good deal of experience, like Lamont and others, can center the steering accurately without the tool. Many examples of this can be sighted including my Spyder. As in most mechanical situations, it comes down to the expertise, experience and integrity of the one doing the work.

Agree on all counts!

[BajaRon]

Thank you Lamont and Baja Ron, I have an appointment with my dealer on Tuesday. My bike is running very rough at 80 miles an hour felt very squarely and lots of vibration in the ass end after my alignment. It felt like it wanted to be put back into fourth gear. Also there are 18 weights on my front left tire.
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP GUYs

Oh! Ouch!

18 weights on a truck tire is a lot. On the small Spyder tire that seems a bit ridiculous to me. If it actually needed that much weight you might as well hang a 'Don't Use This Defective Tire' on it. Something is definitely wrong there.

Running rough... did your dealership do any 'Tune Up' maintenance? Maybe replace the spark plugs? If so you may well have deceased spark plug wires. This is a classic scenario. Never replace the spark plugs without changing out the wires if you're using OEM parts. The wires will fail better than 50% of the time.

Did they mess with rear wheel alignment/belt tension? Is your belt tracking correctly on the rear sprocket?

Hang in there till they get it right and let us know what the fix ended up being.

[RBS66]

Oh! Ouch!

18 weights on a truck tire is a lot. On the small Spyder tire that seems a bit ridiculous to me. If it actually needed that much weight you might as well hang a 'Don't Use This Defective Tire' on it. Something is definitely wrong there.

Running rough... did your dealership do any 'Tune Up' maintenance? Maybe replace the spark plugs? If so you may well have deceased spark plug wires. This is a classic scenario. Never replace the spark plugs without changing out the wires if you're using OEM parts. The wires will fail better than 50% of the time.

Did they mess with rear wheel alignment/belt tension? Is your belt tracking correctly on the rear sprocket?

Hang in there till they get it right and let us know what the fix ended up being.

My bike is a 2013 RT with 1200 miles on it I purchased it August 23. While it was in the shop having the alignment and your bar installed they did check the rear wheel alignment and belt tension. I spoke to my dealer about the 18 weights and they are going to check that on Tuesday also.

[BajaRon]

My bike is a 2013 RT with 1200 miles on it I purchased it August 23. While it was in the shop having the alignment and your bar installed they did check the rear wheel alignment and belt tension. I spoke to my dealer about the 18 weights and they are going to check that on Tuesday also.

It is good that they checked the rear wheel alignment as the Laser works off the rear wheel. For the alignment to be right, the rear wheel has to be right.

Anytime you alter the belt tension you will get a period of belt vibration (in my experience). I assume this is the belt getting settled into the new configuration. I've got my guesses as to why but no solid evidence.

In my case I've changed belt tension 3 times (as BRP's specs changed). Each time I experienced a higher degree of belt vibration for a time. But eventually it settled down.

[Kingers]

As posted by OJ UK, we don't have laser alignment here in the UK:mad: Spoke to Can am dealer today to see if they could check alignment by any other method and was informed they can't do any wheel alignment:yikes: I did ask where I would be able to get this done and was told to try an independent car garage.

My local garage is owned and run by biker friendly mechanics and have taken my cars there for many years. If they are prepared to check my alignment, what info would they need?

Oh, and if Lamonster intends to visit the UK, please pop in, you are more than welcome. Just bring your laser level:yes: We are well trained in the art of forming an orderly queue

Thanks in advance for you help USA.

[FLAspydergirl]

As posted by OJ UK, we don't have laser alignment here in the UK:mad: Spoke to Can am dealer today to see if they could check alignment by any other method and was informed they can't do any wheel alignment:yikes: I did ask where I would be able to get this done and was told to try an independent car garage.

My local garage is owned and run by biker friendly mechanics and have taken my cars there for many years. If they are prepared to check my alignment, what info would they need?

Oh, and if Lamonster intends to visit the UK, please pop in, you are more than welcome. Just bring your laser level:yes: We are well trained in the art of forming an orderly queue

Thanks in advance for you help USA.

I have independant shops that are not BRP dealers...with a fair understanding of alignment...this OUTLAW LASER SYSTEM could be a winner for them.

E mail me: I have a draft I can send you asking some questions. sales@ spydercomfort.com Kristal

[BajaRon]

As posted by OJ UK, we don't have laser alignment here in the UK:mad: Spoke to Can am dealer today to see if they could check alignment by any other method and was informed they can't do any wheel alignment:yikes: I did ask where I would be able to get this done and was told to try an independent car garage.

My local garage is owned and run by biker friendly mechanics and have taken my cars there for many years. If they are prepared to check my alignment, what info would they need?
Oh, and if Lamonster intends to visit the UK, please pop in, you are more than welcome. Just bring your laser level:yes: We are well trained in the art of forming an orderly queue

Thanks in advance for you help USA.

Not being the resident expert on this subject (but having some understanding of what is required) I would not expect a standard auto alignment shop to be able to do the Spyder correctly.

1st, without Spyder specific BUDS it cannot be done correctly so you're out of the parameters right off the bat. Even if they could give you a perfect alignment, without BUDS to get your alignment synced up with the electronics on the Spyder, you're going to have potentially big problems. The primary one being limp mode.

There is an alignment procedure from BRP to align the Spyder in the field. Again, you must have the Spyder Specific BUDS program and Spyder interface connection to make any alignment work. But personally, having done both, I would not bother with the BRP field method. My opinion is it's a crap shoot at best and a waste of time in nearly every case.

The fact that your dealership 'Can't' do alignments and that they would recommend a local auto shop shows that they have no idea what they are talking about. Very Scary! :yikes:

Someone in the UK needs to get the Outlaw Alignment setup - BUDS capability and some instruction.

[FLAlaserman]

Not being the resident expert on this subject (but having some understanding of what is required) I would not expect a standard auto alignment shop to be able to do the Spyder correctly.

1st, without Spyder specific BUDS it cannot be done correctly so you're out of the parameters right off the bat. Even if they could give you a perfect alignment, without BUDS to get your alignment synced up with the electronics on the Spyder, you're going to have potentially big problems. The primary one being limp mode.

There is an alignment procedure from BRP to align the Spyder in the field. Again, you must have the Spyder Specific BUDS program and Spyder interface connection to make any alignment work. But personally, having done both, I would not bother with the BRP field method. My opinion is it's a crap shoot at best and a waste of time in nearly every case.

The fact that your dealership 'Can't' do alignments and that they would recommend a local auto shop shows that they have no idea what they are talking about. Very Scary! :yikes:

Someone in the UK needs to get the Outlaw Alignment setup - BUDS capability and some instruction.


BajaRon....YOU ARE RIGHT ON...I have an Outlaw independant that has a tire store and has been doing Spyder aligns for 4 years( his way ) now he is doing a complete Laser alignment by "our" book...but he also gets a local BRP dealer to reset the buds...you either have to buy the
ENTIRE system OUTLAW LASERS AND BUD or work a deal with a local BRP dealer to just reset after the laser align...they work together

[gypsy_100]

Thank you Lamont and Baja Ron, I have an appointment with my dealer on Tuesday. My bike is running very rough at 80 miles an hour felt very squarely and lots of vibration in the ass end after my alignment. It felt like it wanted to be put back into fourth gear. Also there are 18 weights on my front left tire.
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP GUYs


Oh! Ouch!

18 weights on a truck tire is a lot. On the small Spyder tire that seems a bit ridiculous to me. If it actually needed that much weight you might as well hang a 'Don't Use This Defective Tire' on it. Something is definitely wrong there.

There you have it from an expert. If the tire isn't actually "defective", I would think with all that imbalance it must also be out of balance side-to-side. That will never be cured by putting all the weights in a straight line, no matter how many are there. And that's what BRP and the dealers do. It's all the dealers are set up to do and is what BRP specifies in the shop manual. I know you didn't buy the bike at Blackman's but went to them for the alignment and belt adjustment. Hopefully they are willing to get into this tire issue for you and go to bat for you. It will be interesting to learn what they say next week. Keep us posted.



Did they mess with rear wheel alignment/belt tension? Is your belt tracking correctly on the rear sprocket?

Hang in there till they get it right and let us know what the fix ended up being.

Agree with Ron's other comment re vibration and how it changes when you get the tension adjusted. It seems to me the belt vibration occurs at a certain speed range which is a function of belt tension, among other things. Change the tension and the vibes may move to a different speed, and also be stronger or weaker in severity. I always tell Blackman's to set mine at 500-550 as I've found it's pretty smooth there and yet doesn't stress the bearings as much as if it were at the top of the spec at 600. One time when I took it in, the belt had somehow gotten down to the lower end of the spec, about 300+ and I can tell you the vibes were significantly worse when it was that loose, even though it was in spec. Took it back up to 500+ and all was well. Again, keep us posted on the outcome. Just bear in mind that these bikes with their long belts will vibrate to some extent at some speed. Inherent. They're not whisper-smooth Gold Wings and weren't meant to be.

[IGETAROUND]

Harrrummmph!:gaah:.....Can't get this done in the UK!!

As the old song said; "Be the first one on your block...." Why not set up shop in the UK?:hun:nojoke

[Silvervette05]

How do I get an appointment to have this alignment done?

[NancysToy]

As posted by OJ UK, we don't have laser alignment here in the UK:mad: Spoke to Can am dealer today to see if they could check alignment by any other method and was informed they can't do any wheel alignment:yikes: I did ask where I would be able to get this done and was told to try an independent car garage.

My local garage is owned and run by biker friendly mechanics and have taken my cars there for many years. If they are prepared to check my alignment, what info would they need?

Oh, and if Lamonster intends to visit the UK, please pop in, you are more than welcome. Just bring your laser level:yes: We are well trained in the art of forming an orderly queue

Thanks in advance for you help USA.
Any dealer that says he cannot do a BRP wheel alignment is not familiar with the procedure and tools. If they read the shop manual (or service bulletin for the 2013's, they will find the tools and procedure layed out for them. It is not anywhere near the same as an automotive alignment, and an auto shop cannot align a Spyder with their tools and methods. Since the far superior laser alignment is not available in the UK, it soundd like it is time to educate your dealer.

[BajaRon]

How do I get an appointment to have this alignment done?

If you want an alignment at Lamonster's Garage you just need to email or PM him to set up an appointment.

The Doctor is In! :ohyea: