PDA

View Full Version : Spyder Tire Preasures



Tim Harman
07-02-2008, 08:27 AM
Tire Preasures: What are you setting them at ? :chat:

sabunim5
07-02-2008, 08:54 AM
20 front, 30 rear

NancysToy
07-02-2008, 09:14 AM
20 front, 30 rear since about day three. Has worked real well, and helped stiffen it up in the turns. Shocks still set mid-way.
-Scotty

bjt
07-02-2008, 09:25 AM
20 front, 30 rear since about day three. Has worked real well, and helped stiffen it up in the turns. Shocks still set mid-way.
-Scotty

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Signs/plus-one-2.gif

dltang and I do the same, 20 and 30.

SpyderMark
07-02-2008, 12:34 PM
Tire Preasures: What are you setting them at ? :chat:

There's label on the left side of the Spyder's swing arm with tire information. It reads:

UP TO MAX WEIGHT CAPACITY:
FRONT: 15 +/- 2 psi
REAR: 28 +/- 2 psi

Tire pressure should be checked/adjusted before riding while the tires are cold.

There has been much discussion about whether or not signficantly changing the tire pressure materially affects the function of the Vehicle Stability System. The manual reads:

!WARNING!

Tires that are not the recommended type, damaged, worn down below the minimum tread wear limit indicator or improperly inflated can cause loss of control.

Regards,

Mark

AMTJIM
07-02-2008, 01:53 PM
I have 28 up front and 25 rear...felt too gooey at 20 up front.

NancysToy
07-02-2008, 03:28 PM
There's label on the left side of the Spyder's swing arm with tire information. It reads:

UP TO MAX WEIGHT CAPACITY:
FRONT: 15 +/- 2 psi
REAR: 28 +/- 2 psi

Tire pressure should be checked/adjusted before riding while the tires are cold.

There has been much discussion about whether or not signficantly changing the tire pressure materially affects the function of the Vehicle Stability System. The manual reads:

!WARNING!

Tires that are not the recommended type, damaged, worn down below the minimum tread wear limit indicator or improperly inflated can cause loss of control.

Regards,

Mark
IMO 15 up front is too low, and 15 minus 2 psi would be below the rated minimum for the tire, as printed on the sidewall. I know what their engineers say, but I am more concerned about what the tire manufacturers say. let's not forget the Ford Explorer mess. More comfortable erring on the side of caution. As far as vehicle stability goes, more pressure seems to have helped the Spyder, rather than hurt. No problems with VSS kicking in thus far.
-Scotty

Twodog185
07-02-2008, 04:44 PM
I set my front up to 20 also. On several occassions it felt like the fronts were rolling over on the sidewalls. I'd rather go through more sets of tires than pull one off the bead in the turn. The back has washed out too, but only on 2 or 3 occassions. No change on the rear though.

Trypod
07-04-2008, 12:21 PM
Adjusted my front to 20 psi and rear to 32 psi today. Went for 60 mile test ride on a few curves, straight roads, traffic....and experienced a lot less tire "roll" on cornering steering seems a good bit more responsive. After I got back home pulled it in the garage and checked the tread. The contact area stops at the corners of the tire tread now and none over the edge toward the sidewall. I think I've found my tire pressure "comfort zone" and don't plan on adjusting the shocks from 3 setting for now as the ride seems to be just stiff enough for me. Happy :spyder: 'in. Oh, and Happy Independence Day!!!!!!!

WaltH
07-04-2008, 12:56 PM
Currently, I am doing 25 front and 30 rear. It seems to be working just fine.

Way2Fast
07-05-2008, 10:38 AM
Been running 20-22 front and 32 rear with shocks set one up from midway. Factory pressures are way too low unless you want a bump free mushy ride, poor gas mileage and like to buy replacement tires on a regular basis !

SpyderMark
07-08-2008, 08:35 AM
Factory pressures are way too low unless you want a bump free mushy ride, poor gas mileage and like to buy replacement tires on a regular basis !

On what do you base this claim? I would assume BRP took the time to test the tires chosen at different pressures to determine the best compromise between performance, ride quality and tire mileage.

I've read many articles about the fuel saving benefits of higher tire pressure; in theory it sounds good, but in practice you may gain three percent (maybe one mpg for us Spyder ryders). BTW, that three percent gain is comparing recommended pressure to twenty percent under-inflation -- I've yet to find any research claiming gains in fuel mileage from OVER-inflating your tires. Google "tire pressure vs fuel mileage" or read this (http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/106842/article.html).

There are many downsides to over-inflating your tires, and while there are SOME benefits, those benefits are usually only applicable on a race track. From what I've read, the experts agree the BEST compromise between performance and safety is to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. This article (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=1)covers the issues pretty clearly.

My research shows that over-inflated tires can lead to premature wear as quickly as under-inflated tires. I've also learned that tire inflation affects sidewall stiffness and the size of the contact patch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_patch), both of which affect a vehicle's performance. A too-stiff sidewall will not allow proper "give" and could result in a tire "bouncing" over permutations in the road instead of it riding over them while remaining in contact. Obviously, if your tire is not in contact with the road you have NO traction; how would that affect performance?

My assumption is BRP conducted testing and selected a tire pressure to suit the weight and expected side loads generated by the Spyder. The pressure chosen ensures the tire flexes and maintains the optimum contact patch for optimum performance and tire wear.

I'm not saying BRP is infallible, obviously mistakes are possible. Given the issues, tire inflation is most definitely a safety item; I'd like to know my tires are properly inflated. Are you privy to data that says BRP's tire pressure recommendations lead to poor performance and premature tire wear? If so, please share your source.

Regards,

Mark

NancysToy
07-08-2008, 09:26 AM
On what do you base this claim? I would assume BRP took the time to test the tires chosen at different pressures to determine the best compromise between performance, ride quality and tire mileage.
I would hesitate to assume anything. Vehicle engineers recommend pressures based on numerous factors, including ride comfort. The Ford Explorer tire recall, and subsequent change of the recommended tire pressures for that vehicle, is a classic example of getting it wrong. In this case, there is adequate reason to wonder, since the BRP recommendation includes pressures below the minimum stated on the tire sidewall! I certainly would not recommend running pressures outside the tire manufacturers requirements, no matter what BRP engineers may have recommended.
-Scotty

SpyderMark
07-08-2008, 01:10 PM
I would hesitate to assume anything. Vehicle engineers recommend pressures based on numerous factors, including ride comfort.

Right, which is why I asked for DATA. If someone knows for sure BRP's testing (or lack thereof) is flawed as regards their tire pressure recommendations, please share the DATA and the SOURCE.


In this case, there is adequate reason to wonder, since the BRP recommendation includes pressures below the minimum stated on the tire sidewall!

I would argue BRP's recommendations on tire pressure SEEMS appropriate given the relatively light weight of the Spyder. I haven't actually looked at the sidewalls to confirm, but I would guess these tires are capable of carrying a great deal more weight than they do in this application. The number on the sidewall tells you the minimum allowable pressure when the tire is carrying its maximum load. I would estimate the Spyder's front tires are carrying 350 lbs or so when loaded to maximum capacity.

From this article (http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0208scc_tire_pressure_guide/index.html), Oscar Pereda, an engineer for BFGoodrich, offers a rule of thumb for a "realistic starting point" to determine an appropriate tire pressure for a given vehicle.

(Vehicle Weight in lb/100) + 2 psi at heavier end + 2 psi all around if suspension and alignment are stock.

Example: Stock Porche 911, 3,000 lb.
(3000/100) = 30 psi
Add 2 psi all around = 32 psi
Add 2 psi to heavy end = 34 psi at rear

IF the Spyder had four wheels, we would get:

(800/100) + 2 + 2 = 12 psi (the front is the heavy end)

The denominator in the forumla represents the four wheels. Since the Spyder only has three wheels, I'll subtract 25% from the denominator and re-apply the formula. In this case we get:

(800/75) + 2 + 2 = 14.7 psi

Based on this rule of thumb, BRP's recommendation for front tire pressure doesn't seem too far off the mark to me. (I'm not sure how they arrived at the rear tire pressure, but I assume -- there's that word again -- it has something to do with sidewall flex under acceleration and is based on performance testing.)


The Ford Explorer tire recall, and subsequent change of the recommended tire pressures for that vehicle, is a classic example of getting it wrong.

I know some vehicle manufacturers in the past (Ford most notably) have based tire pressure recommendations on factors other than vehicle performance and safety, however, I find it difficult to believe BRP would make the same mistake -- especially in light of the decision to incorporate the VSS. THAT decision tells me BRP is VERY interested in vehicle safety (and presumably avoiding litigation).

My biggest concern regarding tire pressure is, in fact, the VSS. This safety system assumes the Spyder will roll over or slide should you exceed specific, measured performance parameters (forward speed, steering angle, acceleration, etc). The formula used to make that assumption must include some physical constants (gravity, vehicle weight, the known laws of physics, etc). I don't know for sure -- and BRP is certainly under no obligation to tell us -- but it stands to reason one of those constants is the expected, specific traction performance of the tires. The VSS can only work if the tires generate grip within a certain range. Too much grip and the Spyder will roll over before the VSS intercedes; too little and the Spyder will slide before the VSS intercedes.

I can think of no way the VSS could measure and account for changes in the expected traction performance of the tires on the fly. The fact that BRP warns the VSS does NOT work when traction conditions are changing (snow, heavy rain, off-road) reinforces my belief. Again, if someone has DATA, please share!

With the Spyder's safety systems seemingly relying on known performance from the tires, I would hesitate to disregard the manufacturer's tire pressure recommendations based on an opinion. I would absolutely LOVE for someone to prove my assumptions wrong -- then we can all go and play around with tire pressures, brands, sizes, etc until our wallets explode. Absent hard data though, I prefer to err on the side of caution...


Regards,

Mark

SpyderMark
07-10-2008, 08:55 PM
I would argue BRP's recommendations on tire pressure SEEMS appropriate given the relatively light weight of the Spyder. I haven't actually looked at the sidewalls to confirm, but I would guess these tires are capable of carrying a great deal more weight than they do in this application.

I actually went out and looked at the front tire sidewall on the wife's Spyder. Now that I've practiced what I preach, here's what I found out...

On the tire's sidewall, Kenda says the max load for this tire is 386 lbs. The Spyder's max vehicle weight is 1240 (800 + 440 = 1240). Assuming 50 to 60 percent of that weight is on the front wheels, each wheel would be carrying between 310 and 372 lbs. I used the following formula.

((MAX WEIGHT X PERCENT = WEIGHT ON FRONT)/2 = WEIGHT CARRIED BY EACH FRONT WHEEL)

(1240 X .5 = 620)/2 = 310
(1240 X .6 = 744)/2 = 372

So that means I shot my mouth off in my earlier post without checking the information first... Yes, I know, assumptions are bad!

Kenda prints a minimum of 15 psi on the sidewall; BRP says 15 +/- 2 at all weights. At 13 psi you would be 2 psi below Kenda's stated minimum tire pressure... with the tire carrying the majority of its maximum rated load... hmmmmm.

This seems like a question best directed at BRP and Kenda. Since I made such a fuss over following manufacturers' recommendations I'll attempt to get some answers for everybody.

Regards,

Mark

Way2Fast
07-11-2008, 01:04 PM
In the 46 years since I was issued a drivers license I have always followed the recomendation of the tire manufacturer...the info printed on the side of the tire...as to inflation pressure, and have always run it at or near the maximum. Other than a couple of nail induced flats, I have never had a tire failure.

At 15lbs front the Spyder "plows" into corners and the ride feels soft and mushy. With 20 -22 lbs the steering is more responsive, the ride a bit firmer and I'll gladly welcome the mpg increase, even if it is only slightly improved. The tires on my Spyder do not hold pressure as well as those on other vehicles I have owned. They seem to loose a few pounds every couple of weeks and I have to top them off. Those who start with 15 lbs might be surprised what the actual cold pressure is when they get around to checking it.

Richard

Buelldog
07-11-2008, 03:42 PM
I agree with shocks set midway and front tire pressure at 15psi.....cornering felt real sloppy with a feeling of front end dive......set my front shocks to 5.....rear shock to 7.....increased front pressure to 17.5.....rear to 30 and I am now real happy with cornering stability......in fact I really would not want it much more responsive as it hugs corners as if on rails.My tires are holding pressure....zero bleed off from week to week.I agree it would be great to get BRP'S feedback on their tire pressure recommendation as this topic just won't go away from many spyder forums....it's time to get the facts and put it to bed!:read:

SpyderMark
07-12-2008, 09:32 AM
Those who start with 15 lbs might be surprised what the actual cold pressure is when they get around to checking it.

:hun:

I thought you were SUPPOSED to check the pressures cold... Am I missing something?

Regards,

Mark

Way2Fast
07-12-2008, 10:39 AM
:hun:

I thought you were SUPPOSED to check the pressures cold... Am I missing something?

Regards,

Mark

Of course you check the pressure "cold". Where did I say differently?

smokster
07-12-2008, 11:39 AM
Penske shocks, 20 front, 30 back

SpyderMark
07-13-2008, 09:35 AM
Those who start with 15 lbs might be surprised what the actual cold pressure is when they get around to checking it.

If I fill my tires to 15 pounds, then check them, why would I be somehow surprised at the result? I would expect if I fill them to 15 psi they would be at or near 15 psi when I check them. They always have been so far...

You threw the word "cold" in there and it didn't seem to fit because I just assume "cold" when someone mentions tire pressure... just confused and asking for clarification.


Regards,

Mark

one2doo
07-13-2008, 10:01 AM
How do you like the new shocks Smokester was it worth the green?:popcorn:

NancysToy
07-13-2008, 11:09 AM
If I fill my tires to 15 pounds, then check them, why would I be somehow surprised at the result? I would expect if I fill them to 15 psi they would be at or near 15 psi when I check them. They always have been so far...

You threw the word "cold" in there and it didn't seem to fit because I just assume "cold" when someone mentions tire pressure... just confused and asking for clarification.


Regards,

Mark
I think you guys are talking apples and oranges a bit. My impression was that Way2Fast was indicating that if the tires were filled to 15, cold, then checked a few days later, cold, that the pressures usually be would be down several pounds. I have experienced this myself. For some reason, after filling to 20, the pressures seem to hold much longer. Haven't had to top them off for two weeks at a time, yet did so every day or two at 15 psi. This may actually not be a function of the pressures themselves, but the fact that the tires are now run in well, have heated up, and are seated on the rims better. It might also be that the low pressures don't allow them to seat as well, or that they flex more in turns, on the other hand. Just speculating at this point.

I think you both are checking tire pressures the same way. I think that as long as we run withing the sidewall recommendations, we won't see big problems. I personally like the way the Spyder handles with a bit more air. We don't push hard in the corners, so there shouldn't be VSS issues. We all should just probably do what makes us most comfortable. For any vehicle, I doubt that any design issue would be so criticale and close to the margins, that a minor deviation becomes threatening. I'm sure the engineers left substantial margins for error. That is only prudent for a manufacturer. BRP seems to be the conservative sort.
-Scotty

Way2Fast
07-13-2008, 11:42 AM
I think you guys are talking apples and oranges a bit. My impression was that Way2Fast was indicating that if the tires were filled to 15, cold, then checked a few days later, cold, that the pressures usually be would be down several pounds. I have experienced this myself. For some reason, after filling to 20, the pressures seem to hold much longer. Haven't had to top them off for two weeks at a time, yet did so every day or two at 15 psi. This may actually not be a function of the pressures themselves, but the fact that the tires are now run in well, have heated up, and are seated on the rims better. It might also be that the low pressures don't allow them to seat as well, or that they flex more in turns, on the other hand. Just speculating at this point.

I think you both are checking tire pressures the same way. I think that as long as we run withing the sidewall recommendations, we won't see big problems. I personally like the way the Spyder handles with a bit more air. We don't push hard in the corners, so there shouldn't be VSS issues. We all should just probably do what makes us most comfortable. For any vehicle, I doubt that any design issue would be so criticale and close to the margins, that a minor deviation becomes threatening. I'm sure the engineers left substantial margins for error. That is only prudent for a manufacturer. BRP seems to be the conservative sort.
-Scotty

Scotty; You said it exactly right....just what I was getting at. When I had my tires filled to 15 lbs and let the bike sit for a week or two, they would slowly loose pressure..."leak" if you will, that would require me to top them off before riding.

While on the subject of tire pressure, I was thumbing thru the full color multi page Spyder brochure and on the "Spyder Vitals" page under "tires and wheels" they state that the "nominal pressure for both the front and rear tires is 13-17psi". Seems that BRP has trouble agreeing on so much of what they say. I don't have faith in any of it. This is one company that needs to get their act together and at least hire someone to proof read the material in their brochures, owners manual , shop manual and vehicle "stickers" before printing it !!

Richard

Lamonster
07-13-2008, 12:54 PM
Penske shocks, 20 front, 30 back
:agree::thumbup::spyder:

SpyderMark
07-13-2008, 08:25 PM
When I had my tires filled to 15 lbs and let the bike sit for a week or two, they would slowly loose pressure..."leak" if you will, that would require me to top them off before riding.

I thought this was what you were saying, I just didn't get the "cold" thrown in there -- seemed out of place since tire pressure is always checked cold...

Personally, I haven't experienced this problem with our Spyder. Pressure drops a couple of pounds over two to three weeks -- nothing different than any other vehicle I own and operate on a regular basis.

Short of filling your tires with pure Nitrogen, there will always be some pressure loss over time. The oxygen molecules are small enough to squeeze between the rubber strands and eventually the tire pressure drops. Nitrogen molecules are too big to pass between the rubber strands; theoretically you should experience less pressure loss over time using pure Nitrogen in your tires assuming you are able to completely purge ALL the air out first.

Consumer Reports did a study to determine the difference in pressure loss from Nitrogen vs straight air. I think the study results were tainted because there were unable to ascertain all the air had been purged from the study tires. Nevertheless, they did see a small reduction in air loss from the Nitrogen-filled tires.


While on the subject of tire pressure, I was thumbing thru the full color multi page Spyder brochure and on the "Spyder Vitals" page under "tires and wheels" they state that the "nominal pressure for both the front and rear tires is 13-17psi". Seems that BRP has trouble agreeing on so much of what they say.

I work at a high-tech company. I see a great deal of technical correspondence from engineering, product development, testing and quality assurance folks. I've never seen anything "technical" come from marketing -- they get their information from the other technical people. I suspect BRP's marketing people fouled up a cut and paste operation.

It does seem a bit strange something so obvious could be wrong on a sales brochure, but (at least in the company I work for) it's rare an engineer will even pick up, much less actually read, a sales brochure for a product they designed. Usually, the sales documents are so watered down, from a technical standpoint, the engineers object simply on the grounds the material is too vague. I can see how an error like the one you noted wouldn't get caught early on in a product's life-cycle.

At any rate, I wouldn't consult a sales brochure to determine a technical specification for any mechanical device as complicated as the Spyder. Too many moving parts for those marketing types to keep track of. Find an error like that in the Operator's Guide, or the shop manual and I'm with you.

I intend to ask both BRP and Kenda why the Spyder Operator's guide allows a pressure less than the MINIMUM printed on the tire's sidewall. Guide says 15 +/- 2 allowing a min of 13, while the tire's sidewall says flatly (no pun intended) a min of 15. Perhaps we'll get an answer, perhaps not -- we shall see.

Regards,

Mark

Way2Fast
07-14-2008, 11:13 AM
Mark; If memory serves me right, there is another conflicting statement printed on the decals on the oil storage tank compared towhat is printed in the owners manual in reference to how the oil level should be checked.

Now going back to tire pressures....Atmospheric air is composed of approximately 28% oxygen, 78% nitrogen and the remainder carbon dioxide and small amounts of other gasses. If you fill the vehicle tires with regular "air" and only the part that is oxygen leaks out (due to molecular structure) then routinely refill the tires with "air" it stands to reason that evidentually the nitrogen level will increase above 78% and the tires will loose less air.....or loose air at a slower rate. what is your imput on my reasoning ??


Richard

SpyderMark
07-14-2008, 11:57 AM
Mark; If memory serves me right, there is another conflicting statement printed on the decals on the oil storage tank compared towhat is printed in the owners manual in reference to how the oil level should be checked.

Looking at the oil resevoir placard reproduced on page 58 of the Spyder Operator's Guide PDF, it reads:


Make sure engine is at operating temperature
Roadster must be on a level surface
Let engine running(sp) at idle for at least 30 seconds
Stop engine & wipe the dipstick
Dipstick must be screwed in completely before checking oil level
Use SAI synthetic oil 5W40
The oil level verification procedure printed on page 78 of the PDF reads:

NOTICE: Make sure engine is at operating temperature.


1. Park the vehicle on a firm, level surface.
2. Start the engine and let it run at idle for at least 30 seconds.
3. Stop the engine.
4. Remove the left middle side panel.
5. Unscrew and remove oil dipstick.
6. Wipe the dipstick clean.
7. Reinstall and screw in the dipstick completely.
8. Again, unscrew and remove the dipstick.
9. Check the oil level on the dipstick. It should be near or equal to the upper mark.


At a glance, it appears to be essentially the same procedure. Does the placard on your Spyder read differently?

If you find a placard that disagrees with the operator's guide let me know and I'll include that with my query to BRP regarding front tire pressure.


Atmospheric air is composed of approximately 28% oxygen, 78% nitrogen ... it stands to reason that evidentually the nitrogen level will increase above 78% and the tires will loose less air.....or loose air at a slower rate. what is your imput on my reasoning ??

Makes sense, except it's 21% oxygen, not 28%. I've seen tires go completely flat during long periods of storage, but I don't believe that has to do with the oxygen sneaking out, I think it's because the bead loses it's seal as the rubber shrinks.

Another benefit of pure Nitrogen is it's non-corrosive. The oxygen in the air we breathe causes all sorts of nasty harm to metalic objects...


Regards,

Mark

retread
07-14-2008, 01:11 PM
Recently went from 15 front, 20 back, to 20 front, 30 back; worlds of difference in the handling, feels more planted.

Cookie
07-15-2008, 09:05 AM
I've had my bike PE#900 since Easter and have done 12500k's. I have found that the front seems the best at 17psi and with the shocks up one notch. With some of the roads here in Australia it would be too rough if any higher. With the back end - i have been running at 25psi and have found that tire wear is about 1mm more in middle of the tyre. I've spoken to some tyre people and they agreed that is usually the case in over inflated tyres. Maybe it's been spinning more than i know? Don't want to run any less, so i guess i'll be replacing the rear first.

Ken

Way2Fast
07-15-2008, 07:23 PM
Looking at the oil resevoir placard reproduced on page 58 of the Spyder Operator's Guide PDF, it reads:


Make sure engine is at operating temperature
Roadster must be on a level surface
Let engine running(sp) at idle for at least 30 seconds
Stop engine & wipe the dipstick
Dipstick must be screwed in completely before checking oil level
Use SAI synthetic oil 5W40
The oil level verification procedure printed on page 78 of the PDF reads:

NOTICE: Make sure engine is at operating temperature.


1. Park the vehicle on a firm, level surface.
2. Start the engine and let it run at idle for at least 30 seconds.
3. Stop the engine.
4. Remove the left middle side panel.
5. Unscrew and remove oil dipstick.
6. Wipe the dipstick clean.
7. Reinstall and screw in the dipstick completely.
8. Again, unscrew and remove the dipstick.
9. Check the oil level on the dipstick. It should be near or equal to the upper mark.


At a glance, it appears to be essentially the same procedure. Does the placard on your Spyder read differently?

If you find a placard that disagrees with the operator's guide let me know and I'll include that with my query to BRP regarding front tire pressure.



Makes sense, except it's 21% oxygen, not 28%. I've seen tires go completely flat during long periods of storage, but I don't believe that has to do with the oxygen sneaking out, I think it's because the bead loses it's seal as the rubber shrinks.

Another benefit of pure Nitrogen is it's non-corrosive. The oxygen in the air we breathe causes all sorts of nasty harm to metalic objects...


Regards,

Mark

The 28psi was a typo on my part and I deserve a kick in the butt for not proof reading my post.

I know there was a discussion on the other Spyder board a long time ago about oil level reading or change proceedure because of differences and contradictions in the printed material from BRP. I completely agreed with what was said back then, but right now forget exactly what it was. When I have time I'll check my canister label and see if it reads the same as yours.

Rich

OZBITS1
05-30-2009, 12:35 AM
I got my tyre dealer to fill my tyres with nitrogen cost o$ to do but has any one had problems with the rear tyre chafing/rubber pealing off any advice would help.
regards Darren

ataDude
05-30-2009, 09:51 AM
...but has any one had problems with the rear tyre chafing/rubber pealing off any advice would help.
regards Darren

Haven't had that or even heard of it.

.

Bersquack
05-30-2009, 11:12 AM
I recently added Ride-On to my tires and took advantage to set my tires to the 20/30 configuration that a lot of people here use. I have to say that it gives me a smooth ride. I am thinking about getting the penske shocks, but it is just a lot of money. I guess I'd have to try it first!

jedd
05-31-2009, 09:38 PM
oh oh 19psi all 3 tires. rear wears center too fast for me at 30

SethO
06-01-2009, 02:57 AM
I am going to put my 3rd rear tire on and I am 6k for miles, it is pissing me off having to change them all the time. I was wondering if anyone has tried to go with a 205 or 215 tire, I noticed that the tire I am putting on weights 23 lbs,I thought that motorcyle tires weighted like 9 lbs so if it weights less can't you get more out of it.

Lamonster
06-01-2009, 06:20 AM
When I changed rims at 25K my front tires still looked great but I put new ones on anyway. I get about 13K on the stock rear. I run 30psi on the stock rear and 20psi on the stock front. I'm running 32psi on my rear car tire now. I run all my rims with no weights on them, just Ride-On and the ride is smooth as can be. :doorag:

Dudley
06-01-2009, 11:07 AM
I am going to put my 3rd rear tire on and I am 6k for miles, it is pissing me off having to change them all the time. I was wondering if anyone has tried to go with a 205 or 215 tire, I noticed that the tire I am putting on weights 23 lbs,I thought that motorcyle tires weighted like 9 lbs so if it weights less can't you get more out of it.

You may not like this answer, but if you are on your third tire and you wonder why, ask yourself why you are the only one changing it so often. I don't know what your driving habits are, but tires have a life directly related to your driving habits. If you like the way you ride, and continue to do so, keep changing tires. I don't think there is a tire made that will last you. From the posts on this forum, the overall average is probably 10,000+/- miles. From the looks of my tire with 10,000 miles, I will probably get 20,000 miles.

ataDude
06-01-2009, 12:36 PM
No, he's not the only one... and I know exactly why I get 2,500 to 4,000 miles from a rear tire. :ohyea:
.


You may not like this answer, but if you are on your third tire and you wonder why, ask yourself why you are the only one changing it so often. I don't know what your driving habits are, but tires have a life directly related to your driving habits. If you like the way you ride, and continue to do so, keep changing tires. I don't think there is a tire made that will last you. From the posts on this forum, the overall average is probably 10,000+/- miles. From the looks of my tire with 10,000 miles, I will probably get 20,000 miles.

smokster
06-01-2009, 02:01 PM
20/30 with Penske shocks and sway bar.
Perfect fit

RoadHammer
06-01-2009, 05:07 PM
I am going to put my 3rd rear tire on and I am 6k for miles, it is pissing me off having to change them all the time. I was wondering if anyone has tried to go with a 205 or 215 tire, I noticed that the tire I am putting on weights 23 lbs,I thought that motorcyle tires weighted like 9 lbs so if it weights less can't you get more out of it.
hahaha right on Seth, ride it like ya stole it !!!!! I have a feeling i'll be going through a tire sooner than later...

Al Bragg
06-01-2009, 07:34 PM
20 up fronts 30 for the rear

jedd
06-01-2009, 10:13 PM
:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:LOOK AT MY AVAITAR NO BURN-OUTS FOR ME:roflblack::ohyea::yes::firstplace::doorag:

SethO
06-01-2009, 10:13 PM
you ride too hard



Well on my zx12rr with 195 rear tire hp will get 5k out of a rear with 180/55/r17 michellin road pilot's so how is it a f'ing car tire can get 2k out of a 109 hp bike with a belt drive that only weights 750 lbs. that is what I am pissed off about, also if I power braked the thing all the time then yes I would say I get it. I just put an hankook sr2 on there and it was suppose to put 51 psi in max so I am running it at 38psi and see it how it goes. To say that the way I ride the thing eats the rear tire is redickulous. I am riding this thing because I can't ride my 12 right now, not saying there is anything wrong with the touring aspects of the spyder but the preformance aspect could be improved.

Dudley
06-01-2009, 10:22 PM
Well on my zx12rr with 195 rear tire hp will get 5k out of a rear with 180/55/r17 michellin road pilot's so how is it a f'ing car tire can get 2k out of a 109 hp bike with a belt drive that only weights 750 lbs. that is what I am piss off about, also if I power braked the thing all the time then yes I would say I get it. I just put an hankook sr2 on there and it was suppose to put 51 psi in max so I am running it at 38psi and see it how it goes. To say that the way I ride the thing eats the rear tire is redickulous. I am riding this thing because I can't ride my 12 right now, not saying there is anything wrong with the touring aspects of the spyder but the preformance aspect could be improved.

Ok, I won't say it's the way you ride it. But if it's only you riding it, who is wearing out the rear tire? The Spyder itself will not wear out your rear tire. And if one certain rider can get 13,000 miles out of a rear tire and he rides like the devil was after him...well, here's your sign!

SethO
06-01-2009, 10:41 PM
Ok, I won't say it's the way you ride it. But if it's only you riding it, who is wearing out the rear tire? The Spyder itself will not wear out your rear tire. And if one certain rider can get 13,000 miles out of a rear tire and he rides like the devil was after him...well, here's your sign!

ahh yes efights, I would like to show you the difference between the devil chasing him and me.
I am not looking for a comparison of riding styles I am lookin for a answer to the question of if you push it thru the corners and ride it full out why does it just the rear tire. If you had a shop answer for example the tire rubber was burned off the edges or the carcass was heated up so you could say it yes this why the tire is degrading so fast. Crusier tires hold up better because of the harder compound tire with less power applied so what is the malfuction of the tires on the spyder? I get my tires will last less than someone touring on a spyder but 2k?? come on, 5k is what I thought from my riding expirence it would be at.

Dudley
06-01-2009, 10:57 PM
ahh yes efights, I would like to show you the difference between the devil chasing him and me.
I am not looking for a comparison of riding styles I am lookin for a answer to the question of if you push it thru the corners and ride it full out why does it just the rear tire. If you had a shop answer for example the tire rubber was burned off the edges or the carcass was heated up so you could say it yes this why the tire is degrading so fast. Crusier tires hold up better because of the harder compound tire with less power applied so what is the malfuction of the tires on the spyder? I get my tires will last less than someone touring on a spyder but 2k?? come on, 5k is what I thought from my riding expirence it would be at.


Seth, this is not an efight. You ride the Spyder, you wear out your rear tires. It may be easier because of the tire compound, but that's the nature of the tire. Probably if you continue to ride the way you do, you will continue to go through tires like butter. And why just the rear tire??? Could it be that's because it's a rear wheel drive???

DragonSpyder
06-02-2009, 08:35 AM
I only got 7K outta my rear tire. I had it at 30Lbs and dropped to 28Lbs. Towards the end I noticed considerable wear in the middle so I dropped to 24Lbs. No burnouts but do ride aggresive!

I have about 1K miles on the new tire at 26Lbs and it is already to the first wear mark in the middle. How is it possible that some are running 30Lbs and they are not wearing in the middle?

ataDude
06-02-2009, 09:10 AM
... answer to the question of if you push it thru the corners and ride it full out why does it just the rear tire...

Even on my two-wheelers, I always used up about two rear tires to one front. On my Spyder, it's more like three rears to one front set.

Here's what I think... on heavy acceleration with speed shifts, you are actually slipping the rear tires some. On deceleration with downshifts, you're slipping them more. If you're riding the twisties, you're doing this continuously.

With a new tire with good tread, I can actually hear the "chirps" as I shift into second and sometimes third.

On downshifts, I try to do better about feathering the clutch, but am not always successful... more focused on setting up for the next curve.

My $0.02. And, this is a freebie: You can, and should, communicate here without the various "f-ings" thrown in. They add nothing to your question or response.

NancysToy
06-02-2009, 10:16 AM
My $0.02. And, this is a freebie: You can, and should, communicate here without the various "f-ings" thrown in. They add nothing to your question or response.
:agree:...........please!
-Scotty

SPYDERPOPS
06-02-2009, 12:38 PM
I do beleive that on a real hot day your pressure could grow by 3-4 lbs. when it gets hot. This could be a real factor for wear in the middle. I put mine at the 20-30 range Sunday and rode 300 mi. to find out that they rode very ruff to me. I'm going to put them back to 15-28 and realize that when it's 95-100 degrees that they are actually running around 18-30 hot rather than 23-33.

To know for sure tire temps will have to be taken across the tread to be accurate. I will bring my probe on our trip to CA and do some checking on everyones tires when they are hot. If the tire temps are the same across three points then the pressure is correct.

Well, that's my 3 lbs. worth.
HC

spyryder
06-02-2009, 01:19 PM
I only got 7K outta my rear tire. I had it at 30Lbs and dropped to 28Lbs. Towards the end I noticed considerable wear in the middle so I dropped to 24Lbs. No burnouts but do ride aggresive!

I have about 1K miles on the new tire at 26Lbs and it is already to the first wear mark in the middle. How is it possible that some are running 30Lbs and they are not wearing in the middle?
:agree:
I've only got 23 in mine and it still looks like more wear in the middle.

bone crusher
06-02-2009, 08:40 PM
IMO 15 up front is too low, and 15 minus 2 psi would be below the rated minimum for the tire, as printed on the sidewall. I know what their engineers say, but I am more concerned about what the tire manufacturers say. let's not forget the Ford Explorer mess. More comfortable erring on the side of caution. As far as vehicle stability goes, more pressure seems to have helped the Spyder, rather than hurt. No problems with VSS kicking in thus far.
-Scotty

I thought my dealership had checked my tires at last service, but I recently checked them and was at 10 and 13 in the front, 25 in the rear.

Wow! Talk about soft ride...bumped the fronts to 20 and the rear to about 29.

I now undoubtedly have better traction and my mileage is up a little as well...then again, with green filter, it's up even more! :2excited:

bone crusher
06-02-2009, 08:43 PM
You may not like this answer, but if you are on your third tire and you wonder why, ask yourself why you are the only one changing it so often. I don't know what your driving habits are, but tires have a life directly related to your driving habits. If you like the way you ride, and continue to do so, keep changing tires. I don't think there is a tire made that will last you. From the posts on this forum, the overall average is probably 10,000+/- miles. From the looks of my tire with 10,000 miles, I will probably get 20,000 miles.

:agree::ohyea:

Dudley
06-02-2009, 09:49 PM
OK, here is something I have been thinking for some time about rear tire wear on our Spyders. I will use easy rounded numbers for mathamatical symplicity. Let's say that the total weight of the Spyder with rider is 900 pounds. So, because the engine if front of center, let's assume that the front axles weight is 600 pounds, leaving 300 pounds for the rear. So, the total weight resistance to ground is 600 front, 300 rear. When you throttle the Spyder, a rear tire with 300 pounds resistance to ground is trying to move a front end with 600 pounds resistance. The one rear tire has to do all the work to move the Spyder. I wish I had a high speed camera to mount off the rear fender to see what happens when a hard throttle is applied. I believe the center of the tire will bulge outward somewhat because the rear is so much lighter. This would cause the mysterious "wear in the center" question we have. Not all tires are wearing the same, as in no two riders ride the same.
Now, if anyone has a scale that can weigh their Spyder with them on it; total weight, rear axle weight and front axle weight, then we can have actual weight differences per axle instead of theoretical. Maybe together we can come up to a better understanding of what is happening.

mtdoragary
08-23-2014, 09:49 PM
I'm with Scotty on this!


I would hesitate to assume anything. Vehicle engineers recommend pressures based on numerous factors, including ride comfort. The Ford Explorer tire recall, and subsequent change of the recommended tire pressures for that vehicle, is a classic example of getting it wrong. In this case, there is adequate reason to wonder, since the BRP recommendation includes pressures below the minimum stated on the tire sidewall! I certainly would not recommend running pressures outside the tire manufacturers requirements, no matter what BRP engineers may have recommended.
-Scotty

johnnyg
08-24-2014, 09:21 AM
MY 2013 ST 28F-- 30R, Wife's 2011 RS 26F--26R.