Vehicle Stability System - Any Way to Make it Less Sensitive?

[stewartj239]

So far my wife and I have 2200 miles on our 2013 RT-S and we love it. The only complaint I have is with the VSS. When touring together, it is not an issue as it never kicks in. However, when I'm solo, I do like to take it for a spirited ride - just like you can with a Gold Wing where you can still scrape the pegs if you want to. I am no where near pushing my limits or that of the Spyder and the VSS shuts you down. It is extremely annoying and in some cases is dangerous as it alters your steering while cornering.

So I'm wondering if there is a way to reduce the sensitivity of it. I am not looking to remove it as I get why it is there. It is a safety feature which I do want, but not the way it is currently implemented.

I have come across threads that talk about disconnecting the sensors at each wheel which ultimately disables the VSS, but you also lose the ABS, traction control and speedometer. Although I wouldn't mind disabling it for a short ride, I don't want it disabled permanently.

If this question has been asked 1000 times before, then I apologize, but I've searched and have come up with nothing conclusive. Thanks.

[BajaRon]

Vehicle Stability System - Any Way to Make it Less Sensitive?
Yes... :)

[stewartj239]

Vehicle Stability System - Any Way to Make it Less Sensitive?


Yes... :)

Come on Ron. You've got to give me more than that! I've already installed your sway bar and heim joints and they actually did help to prevent the VSS from kicking in so quickly, but I'm now back up to that point where it is just way too soon. I would guess that if the sensitivity could reduced by just 25%, then I'd be happy.

[BajaRon]

Come on Ron. You've got to give me more than that! I've already installed your sway bar and heim joints and they actually did help to prevent the VSS from kicking in so quickly, but I'm now back up to that point where it is just way too soon. I would guess that if the sensitivity could reduced by just 25%, then I'd be happy.

You don't want her to go away completely. And she is not interested in changing or adjusting in any way. I would think that you're next step will need to be Elka shocks. You can then adjust your spring pre-load and valving. What I can't tell you is how effective that would be.

[Chupaca]

or at least not that I know of.. I have gotten to that point but just adjust my driving to get the max out of what I have. Did sway bar and rode to a point then added the re-location blocks and am getting to where I will have to do shocks but not there yet...they could have had settings like touring, sport, race...:roflblack:

[NancysToy]

The VSS settings or sensitivity cannot be changed. The Spyder can be modified and some Spyders can be adjusted to make the VSS less likely to kick in. Spring preload adjustments would be an example, as would be addition of a BajaRon swaybar or other aftermarket suspension components. Adjustments in tire pressures can play a role, too. Most riders don't like to hear it, but rider technique, skill, and smoothness also matter. As you adjust to the needs of handling the Spyder, you will probably have less intervention...or learn to use the VSS to your advantage, letting it brake in the corners.

[BajaRon]

The VSS settings or sensitivity cannot be changed. The Spyder can be modified and some Spyders can be adjusted to make the VSS less likely to kick in. Spring preload adjustments would be an example, as would be addition of a BajaRon swaybar or other aftermarket suspension components. Adjustments in tire pressures can play a role, too. Most riders don't like to hear it, but rider technique, skill, and smoothness also matter. As you adjust to the needs of handling the Spyder, you will probably have less intervention...or learn to use the VSS to your advantage, letting it brake in the corners.

I have to agree with Scotty here. The Nanny will make you a better rider if you let her teach you. Smooth and technically correct riding will get you faster than some mods.

[stewartj239]

they could have had settings like touring, sport, race...:roflblack:

Agreed. That is what my wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee has. You just change the dial and the motor behaves differently.

[stewartj239]

Most riders don't like to hear it, but rider technique, skill, and smoothness also matter. As you adjust to the needs of handling the Spyder, you will probably have less intervention...or learn to use the VSS to your advantage, letting it brake in the corners.

Yes, I had noticed that and have adjusted my cornering technique. I try to set up turns early, stay wide and don't make any sudden steering changes. Everyday on my route to and from work, I try different things and have noticed it does make a difference.

[stewartj239]

The Nanny will make you a better rider if you let her teach you. Smooth and technically correct riding will get you faster than some mods.

My issue though is that I have to adjust to the computer rather than riding the bike naturally.

How much of an improvement do the aftermarket shocks make? I see that on the 2013, there are no adjustments on the stockers.

[asp125]

It would be great if they had Sport, Touring, and Rain modes. I had that on my GSX-R, three different fuel maps to adjust for different kinds of riding.

But as it is, I call the Nanny the "act your age!" option.

[NancysToy]

My issue though is that I have to adjust to the computer rather than riding the bike naturally.

How much of an improvement do the aftermarket shocks make? I see that on the 2013, there are no adjustments on the stockers.
I'd try the swaybar first...but adjustable shocks can't do anything but help. Failure to provide adjustable shocks on the 2013s was a big booboo in my opinion. We don't all weight the same, carry the same cargo, or ride the same ways.

[Magdave]

What happens when the nanny kicks in does something come up on the screen? As hard as I have pushed mine it should have kicked in by now but has not. I guess I gotta be a little more wreckless:thumbup:

[Bob Denman]

There's a fair amount of history in here regarding this topic...
An attempt was made to contact Bosch to see if they'd give up some programming secrets...
...no reply... (No surprise!)
Nanny is going to remain on guard.

[BajaRon]

What happens when the nanny kicks in does something come up on the screen? As hard as I have pushed mine it should have kicked in by now but has not. I guess I gotta be a little more wreckless:thumbup:

Riding hard is very subjective. One person's hard is the next person's normal. The Nanny will tap you long before you get into the 'Reckless' category. So, if you have not experienced the Nanny, you're not riding hard. I don't mean to give the wrong impression. It is not necessary to ride hard to have a good time and enjoy your Spyder. Everyone needs to ride within their comfort zone. Everyone has their own limits and there is no shame riding within them. But it can be a shame if you ride beyond them.

I have an 08 GS and I have ridden the 2013 ST. On the pre-2013 models the Nanny comes in later but more abruptly. As you make suspension modifications to stabilize the Spyder, the Nanny does not come in as soon because she senses a higher degree of driver control (and so does the driver).

I had no trouble getting the Nanny to kick in on the 2013 ST. Coming off my 08 GS it was very annoying. She was all over me. I tried smoother steering transitions but I could not get that monkey off my back.

There was no way to get it to go through the twisties nearly as fast or easily as my 08 GS. Of course you have to realize that I've got the sway bar and shock upgrades on my 08 so in that sense, it was not a fair comparison. I was a bit surprised though, as I was expecting that all the suspension improvements would make more of a difference. To be fair, it turned out that this particular ST had shock and ball joint problems. I am sure it handles better now.

The Nanny comes in sooner on the 2013 but she is more mild and not so abrupt. It's a smoother transition of control from the driver to the computer than on the pre-2013's.

With all the suspension/frame improvements on the 2013's, the potential for better handling is greater than on the pre-2013's.

[Bob Denman]

Hi Ron!
We hear of "Updates" via the BUDS hookup... Can they, (or have they), offered updates to the VSS through it? Could improvements be just a quick hookup to the central processor away? :shocked:

[BajaRon]

Hi Ron!
We hear of "Updates" via the BUDS hookup... Can they, (or have they), offered updates to the VSS through it? Could improvements be just a quick hookup to the central processor away? :shocked:

The short answer is no. To make these kinds of changes BRP would probably have to do extensive testing to accurately re-calibrate the dozens?, hundreds?, whatever parameters/inputs necessary. Lots of time and money involved, most likely. For a system that works pretty well as it is, just not worth it.

It's not like updating your operating system where the worse that can happen is you lose your data (traumatic as that is).

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: I was hoping that a way to "adjust" Nanny's attitude toward too much fun would be easy-peasy... :gaah:

[BajaRon]

:shocked: I was hoping that a way to "adjust" Nanny's attitude toward too much fun would be easy-peasy... :gaah:

I am not saying that it could not be adjusted, maybe even easily. But the adjustments would probably be dangerous without proper, and extensive testing. That's why you have not seen someone come out with a 'Chip' or similar.

[Bob Denman]

Oh! I wasn't thinking about giving that much discretion to us mere mortals... :shocked:
I was idly wondering about BRP's ability to tinker with the settings... ;)

[boborgera]

It would be great if they had Sport, Touring, and Rain modes. I had that on my GSX-R, three different fuel maps to adjust for different kinds of riding.

But as it is, I call the Nanny the "act your age!" option.

That has nothing to do with a nanny , All that does i limit the power to the rear wheel..
ie, similar to traction control to the rear wheel...[only]

[Bob Denman]

:agree: The Gixxer's setup is far less complicated...

[BajaRon]

Just how fast are we talking about ?
So what kind of speed is 'Pushing it ' ???

It depends... :rolleyes::)

[NancysToy]

It depends... :rolleyes::)

Yeah, when those are filled, you're pushing it! :yikes:

[Farmbanker]

I guess pushing it is a state of mind. I have been able to do 60 on my RT through curves rated 35 one up and feel there is still more I can go..... I feel more comfortable in the curves than on my sport bike....


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[GeoffCee]

I don't remember where I read it but the story goes that Bosch were brought to develop the Nanny because BRP discovered that their Spyder prototype could not be ridden safely in its raw state. It badly needed the VSS to make it a safe, viable proposition.

Of course, there will be those who's sense of adventure and daring is such that the very thought of a Nanny interfering with their fun is a pita. I feel sympathy for this point of view, I love speed but I hate to feel unsafe. It is possible to have safe speed and IMO there is no thrill quite like it.

To reduce the effectiveness of the Spyder's Nanny, if that were made possible, might open a can of worms. How much to reduce it before the ride becomes hazardous? I can see why a car's adjustable suspension is pointed out in this regard but a car, having a wheel at each corner, is inherently firmly planted and stable whereas it appears that the Spyder negotiating a bend is less predictable. Instability increases with cornering speed. At speed a car will break away and slide but the Spyder will lift a wheel and fall over. Not a situation I would like to find myself in. :shocked:

[stewartj239]

Thanks for the great insight and feedback. I am learning a lot. Like I said, I do NOT want to eliminate the VSS as I know it can be a life saver, but the reality is that it kicks in WAY too early.

I took a look at the Elka shocks. I see that there is a big price range between the Stage 1 and Stage 5 offerings. Can anyone talk about what the differences are? I understand that the higher priced shocks allow for greater adjustability, but do they do a better job of "fooling" the nanny than the lower priced shocks? Personally, I think the Stage 1+R is all I would need, but I'd be willing to spend more to quiet down the nanny if necessary.

[asp125]

If you're cornering smoothly, you can ride pretty fast and hard without Nanny. If you are abrupt and rough, you can get Nanny to slap you just turning from a stop sign.

[BajaRon]

Thanks for the great insight and feedback. I am learning a lot. Like I said, I do NOT want to eliminate the VSS as I know it can be a life saver, but the reality is that it kicks in WAY too early.

I took a look at the Elka shocks. I see that there is a big price range between the Stage 1 and Stage 5 offerings. Can anyone talk about what the differences are? I understand that the higher priced shocks allow for greater adjustability, but do they do a better job of "fooling" the nanny than the lower priced shocks? Personally, I think the Stage 1+R is all I would need, but I'd be willing to spend more to quiet down the nanny if necessary.

I don't have Elka's so take it for what it's worth. I have researched them (which really isn't the same thing as riding them. But then again, I don't know many who have ridden them all on the same machine either).

That being the case it is my feeling that (and I agree with you) the 1+R will give you nearly all the bang for the buck that you're going to get and it will save you some coin over the top of the line. That is the one that I settled on for myself. I just never pulled the trigger.

[spyderyderjim]

Thanks for the great insight and feedback. I am learning a lot. Like I said, I do NOT want to eliminate the VSS as I know it can be a life saver, but the reality is that it kicks in WAY too early.

I took a look at the Elka shocks. I see that there is a big price range between the Stage 1 and Stage 5 offerings. Can anyone talk about what the differences are? I understand that the higher priced shocks allow for greater adjustability, but do they do a better job of "fooling" the nanny than the lower priced shocks? Personally, I think the Stage 1+R is all I would need, but I'd be willing to spend more to quiet down the nanny if necessary.
:yes:
Len at PitBull Powersports adjusted my 2011 Spyder RT stage 5 shocks, installed them on my 2013 Spyder RT-S, it is like on rails in corners, nanny does not kick in.
The stage 5 Elka front shocks are worth the extra money for ease of having adjustment for High & Low speed compression dampening, rear stage 1+, setting up 2013 Spyder RT to your riding. If you order Elka Stage 5 RT front shocks & rear 1+, from Len he will set them up spot on!! The 2013 RT shocks are 19" eye to eye (1" longer than 2011 shocks).
Jim

[Spacetrucker]

Mine are 19" top to bottom or hole thu hole. On the new 13 teens.

[stewartj239]

If you are abrupt and rough, you can get Nanny to slap you just turning from a stop sign.

I did experience this when we first got it in July. I am coming off a motorcycle and have 25 years of street experience. I quickly learned that you can't make sharp cuts or transitions with the Spyder or this will happen.


If you're cornering smoothly, you can ride pretty fast and hard without Nanny.

I consider this Stage 2. I worked my way up to exactly what you're describing. I set up my turns and take the widest arch I can with no sudden steering changes. Things were great for a few weeks until my cornering speed increased and the nanny is now reminding me that she is still there :)

[stewartj239]

:yes:
Len at PitBull Powersports adjusted my 2011 Spyder RT stage 5 shocks, installed them on my 2013 Spyder RT-S, it is like on rails in corners, nanny does not kick in.
The stage 5 Elka front shocks are worth the extra money for ease of having adjustment for High & Low speed compression dampening, rear stage 1+, setting up 2013 Spyder RT to your riding. If you order Elka Stage 5 RT front shocks & rear 1+, from Len he will set them up spot on!! The 2013 RT shocks are 13" eye to eye (1" longer than 2011 shocks).
Jim

Here is a quote from the Elka fact sheet that I downloaded: "REDUCED BODY ROLL AND FRONT-END WANDERING". The wandering is also what caught my eye. On my daily commute I have this one back road which is a tarred and stoned road. It is uneven and the Spyder will wallow and wander all the way down it. You can't keep it straight even at 50 MPH. Have you experienced with your new shocks whether this type of road condition is improved or even eliminated?

[NancysToy]

Your best bang for the buck, and the most effective way to reduce excessive body roll is to replace your OEM swaybar with a BajaRon bar. Evaluate that, then decide on the Elkas and/or Pitbull shock relocators. It does sound like you may still have some things that can be done in the way of technique, like weight shifting and leaning the upper body into the corner, but some suspension changes will make these things less necessary and precise technique less critical. Buy a BajaRon swaybar...you won't be sorry!

[stewartj239]

Your best bang for the buck, and the most effective way to reduce excessive body roll is to replace your OEM swaybar with a BajaRon bar. Evaluate that, then decide on the Elkas and/or Pitbull shock relocators. It does sound like you may still have some things that can be done in the way of technique, like weight shifting and leaning the upper body into the corner, but some suspension changes will make these things less necessary and precise technique less critical. Buy a BajaRon swaybar...you won't be sorry!

Already done. I even added the chromoly heim joints and it definitely made a big improvement. I also believe that I've exhausted the options for body positioning. That is why I'm looking for what I can do next. It sounds like the suspension upgrade might be the next logical step.

[spyderyderjim]

Here is a quote from the Elka fact sheet that I downloaded: "REDUCED BODY ROLL AND FRONT-END WANDERING". The wandering is also what caught my eye. On my daily commute I have this one back road which is a tarred and stoned road. It is uneven and the Spyder will wallow and wander all the way down it. You can't keep it straight even at 50 MPH. Have you experienced with your new shocks whether this type of road condition is improved or even eliminated?

My 2013 Spyder RT-S SE5 does not wander with my 2011 Elka stage 5 front shocks, stage 1+ rear shock. (rear tire pressure 28#, front 17#).
I suggest you give Len a call at PitBull powersports Springfield, Mo 417-863-1418 about Elka shocks for your 2013 Spyder RT. (I am not sure if Elka makes stage 5 front shocks for 2013 Spyder RT; but they are worth extra $$ in my opinion).
Was your 2013 Spyder RT built after March 2013? If built before that you may need front ball joints replaced under BRP recall.
(I noticed you enjoy supercross/motorcross. I raced/rode dirt bikes for 31 years in California Mojave desert; (B to V race was awesome).
(Maybe you can add info to your profile of what year Spyder RT, when you bought it, SE5, mods, your 1st name, etc).
(Did you put a reflective insulated heat barrier in front of master brake cylinder on right side of 2013 Spyder RT yet)?
Enjoy your RT riding!! Jim

[stewartj239]

My 2013 Spyder RT-S SE5 does not wander with my 2011 Elka stage 5 front shocks, stage 1+ rear shock. (rear tire pressure 28#, front 17#).
I suggest you give Len a call at PitBull powersports Springfield, Mo 417-863-1418 about Elka shocks for your 2013 Spyder RT. (I am not sure if Elka makes stage 5 front shocks for 2013 Spyder RT; but they are worth extra $$ in my opinion).
Was your 2013 Spyder RT built after March 2013? If built before that you may need front ball joints replaced under BRP recall.
(I noticed you enjoy supercross/motorcross. I raced/rode dirt bikes for 31 years in California Mojave desert; (B to V race was awesome).
(Maybe you can add info to your profile of what year Spyder RT, when you bought it, SE5, mods, your 1st name, etc).
(Did you put a reflective insulated heat barrier in front of master brake cylinder on right side of 2013 Spyder RT yet)?
Enjoy your RT riding!! Jim

I just checked the tag and it was built in April 2013, so hopefully I am good with the ball joints. I have not added any heat barrier to the master cylinder as I was not aware of this issue until I saw the thread about the recall in Canada.

It is always good to meet another dirt bike enthusiast. Like you, I've ridden most of my life as I started when I was 10. I raced District 3 MX for many years in the 125 / 250 Amateur class. I currently belong to a local MX club and my current ride is a 2012 Honda CRF250R. I have 3 sons and we all ride every weekend. We attended the Unadilla MX National a few weeks ago and the club I belong to flags that event. It is an incredible feeling being on the track with the Pros. It makes me realize that I am not as good of a rider as I think I am :)

[Flanker]

:shocked: I was hoping that a way to "adjust" Nanny's attitude toward too much fun would be easy-peasy... :gaah:32 ounce ball peen hammer. Subtlety counts. ;)

[Dan_Ashley]

I don't remember where I read it but the story goes that Bosch were brought to develop the Nanny because BRP discovered that their Spyder prototype could not be ridden safely in its raw state. It badly needed the VSS to make it a safe, viable proposition.
I would sure like to find the source of this rumor. I really want to check its accuracy. It just doesn't make sense. If the Spyder were that unsafe, then any vehicle manufacturer relying on a single computer to fix the problems would be crazy. Computers fail...we all know that. Sometimes they fail at bad times. You gotta be able to handle your machine, whether it is a trike, a bike, or a car with or without the computer. BRP knows that. For them to rely on a single computer to make something safe when its design is too unsafe to sell, is...well, asking to lose a very big product liability lawsuit.

i have no real knowledge of this, but I am guessing that BRP installed the nanny for two reasons: 1) to attract riders with no motorcycle experience, and 2) to keep those with motorcycle experience, and who do not respect that a spyder has much different road-geometry than a two wheeler, from getting in wrecks. Both of these reasons are really marketing driven.

I donno tho. I wish there were more verifiable facts available.

[NancysToy]

Experienced test riders of the early prototype Spyders likened riding it without the VSS to "riding a lawn dart". Like large SUV's (think Ford Explorer), Spyders have some inherent stabilty problems under extreme conditions. Physics always wins in the end. Like large, modern SUV's, BRP elected to resolve these possible problems with a Vehicle Stability System. I have no doubt that their target demographic entered into the settings and features they selected, but they did feel the system was necessary for all riders, and enlisted Bosch to help develop it. The first system was a modified 4-whell vehicle system, and the early Spyders, like Nancy's 2008, actually had four ABS sensors as a result.

[mike3069]

When touring together, it is not an issue as it never kicks in.

This comment is on the mark. I had the same experience with my '08 GS. After a lot of thought I concluded that the computer was making adjustments to the sensitivity to the yaw/body roll sensor when there is a passenger aboard. I mentioned this at the 1st event in Gatlingburg to some other Spyderlovers and one of them decided to do something to test it. He managed to rig the seat sensor switch to think that a passenger on board all the time and verified that, indeed, the nanny did back off on how quickly it engaged. That said, anything that you can do to limit the amount of body roll will postpone the nanny from kicking in. This would include sway bars, shocks/springs, tires etc. Any or all of these can be used to accomplish what you are looking for!

[Bob Denman]

I talked with one of the fellows who was a subcontractor that worked on the front suspension developement... He personally told it to me, and I believe him! ;)
They were having a lot of trouble getting the bike to handle consistently; any cargo stored up in the front was making for some really wonky changes in how the bike felt... :yikes:Cubic dollars were being spent on getting it to work; it took Bosch, to make it a real possibility! :thumbup:

[daltmeyer]

Must ride harder! My nanny has been asleep at the wheel! I mean handlebars. I kindve like it that way but I think she may wake up after Im already in a ditch.

[Bob Denman]

If you cross the line; she'll let you know about it... :lecturef_smilie::shocked: nojoke

[HuckFin]

Must ride harder! My nanny has been asleep at the wheel! I mean handlebars. I kindve like it that way but I think she may wake up after Im already in a ditch.

That's been my concern too... While taking my trike ryding test I misunderstood what speed I was supposed to take a hard right turn at. Anyway I tried to hold 20 mph around the turn and the front wheels broke loose a little and went over the white line, then at the end of the test while making a hard stop from around 15 mph, I managed to break loose a wheel or two, no big deal though, passed anyway. About 2 weeks or so ago I took a left hand 30 mph turn at 60 mph (It's a decreasing radius kind of corner and kind of tricky) Anyway the rear tire broke loose for a split second, went into slight oversteer, caught and came back but I never felt the nanny kick in, nor have I ever felt it. But then again, maybe it's been keeping stupid me out of the ditch all along and I didn't know it.

[Bob Denman]

Yup! :thumbup:

[ARtraveler]

My take on the whole thing is recommending not messing with the vehicle control systems. As technical as the :spyder2: is, there is a lot that can go wrong if something is not adjusted right. I would also think that messing with the system could cause warranty issues in the event of a catastrophic failure of any kind.

[stewartj239]

He managed to rig the seat sensor switch to think that a passenger on board all the time and verified that, indeed, the nanny did back off on how quickly it engaged.

Do you know where this switch is located and how to rig it? Is it a matter of unplugging it or closing the circuit on it? I would certainly be willing to give it a try to see if it does what I'm looking for.

[daltmeyer]

But then again, maybe it's been keeping stupid me out of the ditch all along and I didn't know it.

I highly doubt it. How could you not know its applying the brakes or limiting your rpms? At the very least the icons on the dash should light up if this was happening to clue us in. Ive heard many say on here that its unmistakable when she takes over and kindve jarring if youve never experienced it.

[daltmeyer]

Do you know where this switch is located and how to rig it? Is it a matter of unplugging it or closing the circuit on it? I would certainly be willing to give it a try to see if it does what I'm looking for.


Its the round cap with a couple screws and wire under the seat on an RS. The switch is round and gets pushed in when someone sits down to close the circuit.

[BajaRon]

I highly doubt it. How could you not know its applying the brakes or limiting your rpms? At the very least the icons on the dash should light up if this was happening to clue us in. Ive heard many say on here that its unmistakable when she takes over and kindve jarring if youve never experienced it.

When the Nanny kicks in, you can tell. You don't have to wonder. If you're not sure then she has never taken control.

[HuckFin]

When the Nanny kicks in, you can tell. You don't have to wonder. If you're not sure then she has never taken control.

Yes, I agree with you and daltmeyer.....I have never felt any applying of the brakes or limiting of the rpms while I was breaking the tires loose....So when is this nanny I keep hearing about, supposed to kick in?

[Dan_Ashley]

Do you know where this switch is located and how to rig it? Is it a matter of unplugging it or closing the circuit on it? I would certainly be willing to give it a try to see if it does what I'm looking for.
I think its a bad idea, but here is how:
Raise the seat and look near the rear. You will see something bolted to the underside of the seat, near the rear. You will probably need a flashlight. Use a metric hex on your ratchet and unbolt it. Remove the switch, but do not unplug it. Use a high strength tape, and tape the circuit closed. Then use cable tie wraps to reinforce the tape. Reinstall the switch--make sure you keep it plugged in.

Doing this will make the nanny think you always have a passenger. I think it is unwise to defeat safety systems. But now you know how.

[stewartj239]

I think its a bad idea, but here is how:
Raise the seat and look near the rear. You will see something bolted to the underside of the seat, near the rear. You will probably need a flashlight. Use a metric hex on your ratchet and unbolt it. Remove the switch, but do not unplug it. Use a high strength tape, and tape the circuit closed. Then use cable tie wraps to reinforce the tape. Reinstall the switch--make sure you keep it plugged in.

Doing this will make the nanny think you always have a passenger. I think it is unwise to defeat safety systems. But now you know how.

Thank you Dan. Like I said, I am willing to TEST this in a controlled state and not looking to bypass the VSS altogether. I just want the Nanny to act 45 instead of 90 :)

[Bob Denman]

When the Nanny kicks in, you can tell. You don't have to wonder. If you're not sure then she has never taken control.
Not everybody is tuned in to the bike to the same level...
Nanny plays with the braking bias when she reads that there's a passenger; I'm not sure if that's really a useful tool for taking her out of the equation... :shocked:

[stewartj239]

I finally got time to tape / zip tie off the passenger seat switch and wanted to report back my findings. After two days, I am positive that it turns the Nanny into a "Super" Nanny. The VSS kicks in WAY sooner in turns and is MUCH more aggressive. I pulled the zip tie off the switch last night to return it back to its normal state and after riding for 60 miles today, I felt like I was on a new bike. I was actually GLAD to have the old Nanny back. I think my next step will be to swap out the stock suspension for the Elka's in hopes that will help - in addition to giving a better ride for 2-up riding.

[Dan_Ashley]

I finally got time to tape / zip tie off the passenger seat switch and wanted to report back my findings. After two days, I am positive that it turns the Nanny into a "Super" Nanny. The VSS kicks in WAY sooner in turns and is MUCH more aggressive. I pulled the zip tie off the switch last night to return it back to its normal state and after riding for 60 miles today, I felt like I was on a new bike. I was actually GLAD to have the old Nanny back. I think my next step will be to swap out the stock suspension for the Elka's in hopes that will help - in addition to giving a better ride for 2-up riding.
Thanks for this info....I really appreciate it.

Nancy's Toydoes this square with your knowledge base?

[NancysToy]

Thanks for this info....I really appreciate it.

Nancy's Toydoes this square with your knowledge base?

The passenger seat switch changes the response of the VSS, namely the traction control, and it also changes the braking bias. Either would likely cause VSS intervention sooner or stronger without a passenger. The ABS response could also be adversely affected.

[BajaRon]

Not everybody is tuned in to the bike to the same level...


Hard for me to believe but I think you're right. There may be people who can't tell that the Nanny has engaged.

Maybe I notice because I'm just such a sensitive guy!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_FVyXL8-090/T3RZVTF-nnI/AAAAAAAABgY/M6-sQ3PhMz8/s1600/joe%2Bsensitive.jpg

[Farmbanker]

Heck, I didn't need a test to tell that the nanny kicks in sooner with a passenger. I can't push curves and turns at all when my wife is riding. However, I am pretty sure she is keeping me from hurting myself......


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[NancysToy]

Heck, I didn't need a test to tell that the nanny kicks in sooner with a passenger. I can't push curves and turns at all when my wife is riding. However, I am pretty sure she is keeping me from hurting myself......


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
That has less to do with the nanny settings than it does with the passenger. The passenger on a Spyder is less tuned in with the machine, hence the grab-bars. They are pretty much thrown around back there, to some extent. That changes the center of gravity and the Spyder's response in turns. The passenger weight also changes the weight distribution, increases the body roll, and works the suspension harder. All contribute to more difficult cornering...whether or not the nanny gets involved.

[BajaRon]

That has less to do with the nanny settings than it does with the passenger. The passenger on a Spyder is less tuned in with the machine, hence the grab-bars. They are pretty much thrown around back there, to some extent. That changes the center of gravity and the Spyder's response in turns. The passenger weight also changes the weight distribution, increases the body roll, and works the suspension harder. All contribute to more difficult cornering...whether or not the nanny gets involved.

All true. Weight distribution can be as important, if not more important than the amount of weight. The best place for weight on our Spyder is low to the ground between the front wheels. The higher the weight, and the further the weight from the front wheels, the greater the negative impact on handling.

So really, the worst possible addition of weight for a Spyder is a passenger. A passenger is located high and a long way from the front wheels. The Nanny attempts to compensate for this critical addition with a more stringent setting activated by a switch under the seat.

[sledmaster]

Tell ya' what, we should all be very thankful for the VSS system as it is about the only way the Spyder was made possible. I was able to ride early prototypes that did not have the VSS and, when cornering hard on a test track, you could get the inside front wheel to come up off the pavement pretty much at will and it was up to you (and only you) to lay it back down. So while we can ask for ways to make the VSS less apt to kick in, ultimately I am very thankful for this technology.

Seems like each and every Spyder I ride it acts just a little bit differently, but as many have said you can learn how to work with it and use it to your advantage. I can tell you it kicks in far easier on my ST-S than it does the original GS models, but when it does kick in it is less intrusive. The single biggest thing I can do to keep it happy is to lean further into the corners with my body, like riding a snowmobile. And just like this keeps the inside ski down on a sled, it helps to keep the inside wheel down on a Spyder.

This is why BajaRon's anti-sway bar works so well, it reduces the body roll that the VSS senses and helps to keep the nanny from kicking in. And, this is why better shocks also help, again to reduce body roll and better control the vehicle mass and keep it within the established parameters of the VSS system.

[Bob Denman]

Maybe I notice because I'm just such a sensitive guy!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_FVyXL8-090/T3RZVTF-nnI/AAAAAAAABgY/M6-sQ3PhMz8/s1600/joe%2Bsensitive.jpg
And good looking too! :2thumbs:

[stewartj239]

The passenger seat switch changes the response of the VSS, namely the traction control, and it also changes the braking bias. Either would likely cause VSS intervention sooner or stronger without a passenger. The ABS response could also be adversely affected.

Thanks for the confirmation. When my wife and I are touring, it never kicks in because I don't push it. However, when I zip tied it and went out by myself, it was literally 2X more sensitive. It was very noticeable.

[stewartj239]

So while we can ask for ways to make the VSS less apt to kick in, ultimately I am very thankful for this technology.

I agree. I truly believe that it is a necessary safety feature, but the way it is tuned is way too aggressive.

[Bob Denman]

Nanny ain't nothing, when compared to "The Missus"! :shocked:
nojoke

[sledmaster]

VSS is actually a culmination of three systems, the ABS braking, the TCS traction control and the SCS stability control. The notes I took when the system was explained to me say there are six sensors being monitored by the VSS. We have three wheel sensors, a lateral yaw sensor, a steering angle sensor and an engine torque sensor. Based on the input of these six sensors that are being monitored 25 times per second, engine power can be reduced and each of the three wheels can have the brakes applied independently.

Having ridden units without VSS I think you might be surprised at how the vehicle worked without it. Maybe not. The VSS is kicking in because it knows what kind of forces it takes to get a wheel off the ground. During product development there would have been all kinds of data acquisition equipment on the units and they measured time and time again what it took to get the vehicle out of sorts. If it kicks in, it is because you are rapidly approaching that moment of truth. The lateral yaw sensor might be the one we are most concerned with. I’m not sure if the programming is monitoring the rate of change, but I suspect it does.

So while we might believe the nanny is kicking in too early at times, it might not be. It just might know what the impending outcome would be, otherwise. Considering I got yelled at railing around corners on a test track lifting the inside front tire on a unit without VSS, I am not surprised at how sensitive the nanny is. It is there for a very good reason, to keep us out of trouble. If you crank on the handlebars and the throttle at the same time when sitting at a stop sign you will find out in a hurry what happens. This is not a suggestion, just an observation!

[Bob Denman]

Thank you for a very clear and concise explanation! :thumbup:
And some very interesting background on how Nanny came to be what she is! :clap:

[NancysToy]

VSS is actually a culmination of three systems, the ABS braking, the TCS traction control and the SCS stability control. The notes I took when the system was explained to me say there are six sensors being monitored by the VSS. We have three wheel sensors, a lateral yaw sensor, a steering angle sensor and an engine torque sensor. Based on the input of these six sensors that are being monitored 25 times per second, engine power can be reduced and each of the three wheels can have the brakes applied independently.
and the throttle at the same time when sitting at a stop sign you will find out in a hurry what happens. This is not a suggestion, just an observation!

Correction...it's a steering torque sensor. The steering angle and steering torque are compared and the VSS makes corrections using the brakes to try to maintain the intended steering line if necessary.

[sledmaster]

Thank you for the correction professor. :opps: I was working off of notes from over six years ago, but when you think about it that is far more logical!

Edit: I looked back through my notes and can confirm it is a steering torque sensor, not an engine torque sensor, as one of the sensors used by the stability control. This should be the same steering torque sensor used for the DPS dynamic power steering. The DPS system uses it, along with the steering angle sensor and speed sensor, to maintain the same steering force at all speeds by applying variable power assist.

I had also noted the Spyder was fitted with four different ECUs on board, communicating via a CAN bus. Professor probably already knows this, but I thought it was cool!

Other items of interest includes specs for the original 990 Rotax, rated at 106 HP @8,500 RPM and 77 ft-lbs of torque at 6,250 RPM.

These notes were taken on January 11, 2007 when we were introduced to the P3 prototypes. At that time, BRP indicated the Spyder had been a concept ten years previous (which would have been 1997) and they had prototypes 7 years previous (which would have been 2000). This is consistent with my first ride opportunity in 2001.

[Sny]

Couple things:

I had swapped seats on my ST and somehow a bolt wound up lodged in the passenger sensor and jammed it in the "on" position. Man did that suck. Later I swapped seats again and noticed it. I had no idea what I had done ;)

If you want the nanny to go away (you don't... trust me) move both the front speed sensors to the rear wheel so all three sensors are together on the same wheel. The nanny will think the world has ended and go out to lunch.

But if you do: 77084 baaaad things happen.

[Bob Denman]

77084[/ATTACH] baaaad things happen.
Wow! :shocked: That one moved quite a bit... How long did it take to knit back together?? :yikes:

Moving the spped sensors is an option...
My Grampa Denman also used to tell me that you've always got the option to hit yourself in the head with a hammer...
Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean that you should! :thumbup:

[sledmaster]

I looked back through my notes and can confirm it is a steering torque sensor, not an engine torque sensor, as one of the sensors used by the stability control. This should be the same steering torque sensor used for the DPS dynamic power steering. The DPS system uses it, along with the steering angle sensor and speed sensor, to maintain the same steering force at all speeds by applying variable power assist.

I had also noted the Spyder was fitted with four different ECUs on board, communicating via a CAN bus. Professor probably already knows this, but I thought it was cool!

Other items of interest includes specs for the original 990 Rotax, rated at 106 HP @8,500 RPM and 77 ft-lbs of torque at 6,250 RPM.

These notes were taken on January 11, 2007 when we were introduced to the P3 prototypes. At that time, BRP indicated the Spyder had been a concept ten years previous (which would have been 1997) and they had prototypes 7 years previous (which would have been 2000). This is consistent with my first ride opportunity in 2001.

[Bob Denman]

:thumbup: :clap: Thanks!

[Barlock]

I want to thank everyone involved in this discussion. I had no idea about any of those things you discussed here, and now (I think) I learned quite a bit. AlthoughI must admit I haven't (yet) experienced my Spyder's nanny kicking in (Isn't it a good thing?):dontknow:

[Bob Denman]

If nanny kicks in; you may have been tickling the Dragon's tail, so she saved your butt...
I would say that's pretty good! :thumbup:

[HuckFin]

I want to thank everyone involved in this discussion. I had no idea about any of those things you discussed here, and now (I think) I learned quite a bit. AlthoughI must admit I haven't (yet) experienced my Spyder's nanny kicking in (Isn't it a good thing?):dontknow:

As far as I'm concerned its a good thing. Anyway awhile back in this same thread I posted that the rear wheel on my RS-S broke loose going twice the recommended speed limit around a corner with out the nanny kicking in. Well... last week I decided to try it again, only this time 5 mph slower, but this time about half way through the corner my throttle went away. The only thing different this time, besides going slower was me not leaning as hard (the first time I was half off the seat) Still haven't felt nanny applying the brakes....Yet..

[Sny]

Wow! :shocked: That one moved quite a bit... How long did it take to knit back together?? :yikes:

Moving the spped sensors is an option...
My Grampa Denman also used to tell me that you've always got the option to hit yourself in the head with a hammer...
Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean that you should! :thumbup:
16 weeks give or take... probably another year before it "felt right" putting any real force behind it.

[stewartj239]

Although I must admit I haven't (yet) experienced my Spyder's nanny kicking in (Isn't it a good thing?):dontknow:

If you are at or past your limits when the nanny kicks in, then yes, it is a good thing. But there are plenty of riders out there who can push the Spyder beyond what the nanny will allow and that is the frustrating part. I've said it before, you can scrape the pegs on a GoldWing, so there is no reason why the Spyder can't be pushed to it's limits as well, but the nanny won't allow it. It is WAY too conservative. Obviously, lawyers were involved when Can-Am determined what the default threshold would be. I can only imagine the shock and dismay of the engineers who designed this thing when they found out.

[stewartj239]

I'm just about at the 4K mile mark and I am still learning how to ride around the VSS. I've spent the last 25 years on a motorcycle and you definitely lean over and steer with the front end. I'm learning that with the Spyder, you need to lean and steer (with body english) from the rear. I've tried both scenarios numerous times over the last week and can say that I can get the Spyder through turns now quicker and smoother. I can still get the nanny to kick in, but it is so much less right now. Once I get the Elka suspension put on over the winter and continue to refine my riding technique, I hope to get the nanny to a point where my limits have been reached before I know she's there. That is my goal. I want a smile on my face every time I ride the Spyder.

[sledmaster]

Ride the Spyder like a snowmobile and you will rarely get the yaw sensor to kick the nanny on. When cornering it is body roll and wheel lift that will get her excited. Lean into the corner out over towards the inside front wheel to counteract the body roll and you can rail around corners with no nanny interaction. I guess I am talking about GS/RS sport models, and even ST models. Few people are going to be leaning like this on an RT, especially with the soft front end and excessive body roll. On any of them install a BajaRon sway bar, less body roll and flatter cornering means less nanny interaction. This is why snowmobile and ATV riders are usually comfortable very quickly on a Spyder, but traditional two-wheel riders have difficulty with the dynamics of the Spyder. Ride it like a sled, that is how it was designed to be ridden. :D

[Bob Denman]

This is why snowmobile and ATV riders are usually comfortable very quickly on a Spyder, but traditional two-wheel riders have difficulty with the dynamics of the Spyder. Ride it like a sled, that is how it was designed to be ridden. :D
:agree: What else would you expect from a Company made famous for it's snowmobiles? :thumbup: