Spyder Pricing and possible competiton

[OldDog]

With possible competition waiting in the wings, i.e. Arctic Cat, Polaris, Honda, et al, do you think that BRP would lower the cost of its Spyder line?
I don't need to state that Spyders are expensive. Do you think the competition could bring a lower price point to the table? I realize that technology such as ABS, the nanny etc. cost money. Do you think a Spyder is fairly priced in the market place given it's the only game in town, for now... :chat:

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Lower the pricing :shocked:??? :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflb lack:
Sorry.. they'll compete on features; not pricing! ;)

[billybovine]

With possible competition waiting in the wings, i.e. Arctic Cat, Polaris, Honda, et al, do you think that BRP would lower the cost of its Spyder line?
I don't need to state that Spyders are expensive. Do you think the competition could bring a lower price point to the table? I realize that technology such as ABS, the nanny etc. cost money. Do you think a Spyder is fairly priced in the market place given it's the only game in town, for now... :chat:

You think they are expensive. Try buying one in Canada. :yikes:

[wyliec]

I don't think the GS/RS is overpriced for what you get. I usually don't buy items that I feel are overpriced.

To my way of thinking, if something is overpriced, the best way to get the price in line is to not buy.

[SpyderAnn01]

No, just I like I don't think gas will ever be $1.00/gallon again.

[Farmbanker]

The Spyder is a deal compared to triking a Goldwing......it isn't cheap but I can't say it is overpriced.

[bigflax925]

:shocked: Lower the pricing :shocked:??? :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflb lack:
Sorry.. they'll compete on features; not pricing! ;)

Totally agree with this. Not only is BRP the only game in town, it's been so for awhile. They will have those laurels to rest on while the rest of the players get situated and pricing/options shake out.

With the features offered, it'll be tough for a competitor to come in with more features for less money.

[jerpinoy]

If you think Spyders are expensive you can always wait for a 3 wheel Elio they will only cost $6800.:yes::yes::yes:

[OldDog]

If you think Spyders are expensive you can always wait for a 3 wheel Elio they will only cost $6800.:yes::yes::yes:

It will be interesting to see how the Elio plays out. I would like to see it succeed. :thumbup:
Right now it doesn't look too promising.

[bullant12]

Elio's focus is more to the car oriented masses than the motorcycle. I think they want to compete with SmartCar. Yes, it is cheaper than a :spyder2:, but the possibilites of taking off are not too promising...:dontknow:

[ARtraveler]

RE: Pricing on :spyder2: competition. If the competetition is able to produce a :spyder2: clone, I believe that the pricing will be within a couple hundred dollars, IF they are able to come in at less. The competetition will price at "what the market will bear", not at what the machine will cost, plus a fair markup. We have already demonstrated that we are willing to pay up to $30K for such a machine.

RE: Elio pricing. The ball is in their court and seeing will be believing. You all know what I think. :roflblack:

[steve635]

If it happens (big if), I think it will affect pricing not on the RS but on the RS-S and particularly on the ST and RT's. Probably not the base prices but on option packages, as these are usually big profit items.

[doctorlbug]

If you think a Spyder is expensive, check out the Campagna three wheel roadster with a Kawasaki engine.

[OldDog]

The Spyder is a deal compared to triking a Goldwing......it isn't cheap but I can't say it is overpriced.

:agree: I remember looking at Goldwing trikes a couple of years ago. Ironically at the same dealership where they sell Can Am Spyders (Honda Suzuki of Jackson Ohio), they sell Goldwing trikes. I believe they were Lehman conversions. They were $35000-$40000. :yikes:
They are sweet but they are out of my league. They also come with their own set of "issues".

[arntufun]

RE: Competition.......... Any company that comes out with a reverse trike (whether Elio or any other manufacture) will have a untrained, unskilled, newbies working on them just like BRP did in 2008. Do you really want to start all over again with a untrained service deptment ???????????????

Those new owners who think their service dept sucks now, you should have been around a few years ago. I think they have improved greatly, at least my dealer has. I'm sticking with BRP because this new reverse trike product is not so new to them anymore. :thumbup:

[OldCowboy]

No manufacturer lowers their prices based on rumors. Until a competitor starts cutting into the :spyder2: market share, Can-Am has no reason to lower prices.

Considering the complexity of :f_spider:, I'm frankly amazed they sell for prices as low as they are. The Spyder RS and ST compete with Harley Softail models in price, yet the only thing modern on the 2013 Softail is fuel injection, throttle-by-wire, and ABS. The engine is air cooled and based on a 1936 design with minor improvements. When I compare the complexity of the :spyder2: with the simplicity of the Softail, I have to figure HD is making a killing on each sale.

[ARtraveler]

FYI.......... Any company that comes out with a reverse trike (whether Elio or any other manufacture) will have a untrained, unskilled, newbies working on them just like BRP did in 2008. Do you really want to start all over again with a untrained service deptment ???????????????

Those new owners who think their service dept sucks now, you should have been around a few years ago. I think they have improved greatly, at least my dealer has. I'm sticking with BRP because this new reverse trike product is not so new to them anymore. :thumbup:

Some real words of wisdom here folks! Been there, have the T-shirt.

[flaggerphil]

I believe the Spyder is the lowest priced touring trike on the planet right now. Not sure why they'd lower the prices...

[SNOOPY]

I've watched all this in the Jet Ski realm over the years...I think the prices will rise...and the competitors prices will rise right along w/ it.

In the end quality wins. So Far BRP is light years ahead...

[Doktor]

I looked at the top three trikes locally, Honda, Harley, and Can Am. The Honda shop had none on the showroom, one was being built, with 2 other people in line to purchase, and apparently, their build shop can only do one a month. They will not be ramping up, I'm guessing, and are priced roughly $10,000.00 higher than the Can Am, you can pretty much count on their pricing to be pretty much what they want to get, if they are artificially inflated by supply and demand. When you trike out a Goldwing, you pretty much say that you don't want any warranty, except at the dealer you bought it from. If you have any drivetrain issues, they can tell you that the trike kit caused the damage. You may or may not get Honda corporate to agree that it didn't cause the problem, but you are either out the cost of the repair, and hope to be reimbursed, have your bike sit in the back room of the repair shop until Honda says it is not trike related.
Harley had one on the showroom, already sold, Harley has been notoriously slow in getting their trikes out to the dealers. I waited around their trike on the showroom for maybe 15-20 minutes before an employee that worked on the sales floor, I'm not calling him a salesman. I asked about the price, he pointed to the sticker. The funny thing about the sticker for the Harley is the bottom line isn't really the bottom line, you get to the bottom, then the start adding the "options" like reverse, your bottom line climbs up for that,, yet you can't get it without it, the very high priced stereo, not removable, gets added on, etc, by the time you add the options that can't be removed, you're up around $41-43,000 or much higher if you need other add-ons. And you STILL HAVE TO SHIFT!!
Yeah, Can Am's are pricey, especially when you move into the RT-S SE5, like the one I got.
My wife kind of had her heart set on getting another Goldwing, but triked, but I managed to get her on the back seat of an RT-S SE5, and the ease of her being able to swing her replaced hip over the seat with ease, the ride convinced her that the Can Am was much more comfortable, and easier to get into than the Goldwing. And much less $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Doc

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

[QUOTE=Doktor;675483]I looked at the top three trikes locally, Honda, Harley, and Can Am. The Honda shop had none on the showroom, one was being built, with 2 other people in line to purchase, and apparently, their build shop can only do one a month. They will not be ramping up, I'm guessing, and are priced roughly $10,000.00 higher than the Can Am, you can pretty much count on their pricing to be pretty much what they want to get, if they are artificially inflated by supply and demand. When you trike out a Goldwing, you pretty much say that you don't want any warranty, except at the dealer you bought it from. If you have any drivetrain issues, they can tell you that the trike kit caused the damage. You may or may not get Honda corporate to agree that it didn't cause the problem, but you are either out the cost of the repair, and hope to be reimbursed, have your bike sit in the back room of the repair shop until Honda says it is not trike related.
Harley had one on the showroom, already sold, Harley has been notoriously slow in getting their trikes out to the dealers. I waited around their trike on the showroom for maybe 15-20 minutes before an employee that worked on the sales floor, I'm not calling him a salesman. I asked about the price, he pointed to the sticker. The funny thing about the sticker for the Harley is the bottom line isn't really the bottom line, you get to the bottom, then the start adding the "options" like reverse, your bottom line climbs up for that,, yet you can't get it without it, the very high priced stereo, not removable, gets added on, etc, by the time you add the options that can't be removed, you're up around $41-43,000 or much higher if you need other add-ons. And you STILL HAVE TO SHIFT!!
Yeah, Can Am's are pricey, especially when you move into the RT-S SE5, like the one I got.
My wife kind of had her heart set on getting another Goldwing, but triked, but I managed to get her on the back seat of an RT-S SE5, and the ease of her being able to swing her replaced hip over the seat with ease, the ride convinced her that the Can Am was much more comfortable, and easier to get into than the Goldwing. And much less $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Doc[/QUOTE ..I'm only going to address the " GOLDWING TRIKE ", It is not a HONDA product...It's not produced by Honda...It' was not created by Honda....It is a "Bastardized" Goldwing. The trike part of it is NOT made by Honda nor is it even Endorsed by Honda to the best of my knowledge.....Annnnd if HONDA ever does a " Trike " similar to the Spyder ....Well I hope you don't own any BRP stock..............JMHO....Mike

[Dan_Ashley]

The Goldwing is BIG. It is a monster large machine. It costs a lot more, it has no dealer network, but it does have a bigger motor. If bigger motors are important, why not just get a VW trike? I've experienced no shortage of power with my Rotax engine. The Goldwing 1500 has 100 horsepower, the 1200 has 94. Um. The Spyder has what 106? So bigger is better only if you think in terms of displacement, not power output.

The only Harley trike I looked at was brand new at the dealer. It had a drip pan under it with kitty litter in it. 'Nuff said....Given the HIGH price of the Harley's I just regailed from buying a brand new dripper. The HD has 103 horsepower. It seemed to me to have less storage. It didn't have a nanny, and as irritating the nanny can be, it does provide a large margin of safety.

The Goldwing has a bigger owners group which is nice.
The HD has some really fine leathers you can buy.
The Goldwing sometimes has front end--head wobble.
The HD sometimes has differential lockups.

So, the best made machine really is the Can Am. It is not perfect.

Moreover, since it is a reverse trike, it is a lot safer. It has a dealer network, it has quality throughout, and its performance matches both HD and Goldwing. I suppose if I wanted insane performance i could have purchased a Boss Hoss--but I really don't think a Boss Hoss dealer network would support me in a cross country trip. I'm too much of a stuffed shirt for insane performance anyway.

By the way, my wife bought HD leathers anyway.

dan

[DoggyDaddy]

Assuming for a moment that there will factory competitors on the market in the near future, why would you buy one? Let's see, you will be dealing with new technology which could translate into reliability issues (just ask BRP!). Of course when you are out on the open road and have a problem what are your chances of finding a qualified mechanic AND parts to fix the new machine? Oh, let's not forget the lack of accessories for any new model....let the "farkleing" begin...not!

O.K. maybe I am being a bit too harsh. However, let's face it, unless someone is going to come out with a Spyder-like configuration (two wheels up front) you are going to have stability and handling issues just as you do on any of the current crop of trike conversions. After a recent trip through the Sonora pass here in CA I am quite certain that it would be no fun making the ride on a Lehman, Champion or Motor trike. All of those machines can easily cost $10k more than a comparable Spyder with no advantages whatsoever.

If there is competition, great....we should all welcome it! What we should not expect is BRP to lower the prices on the Spyders. What I would hope to see is BRP step-up its game with tweaks and improvements to existing products. :doorag:

[Lamonster]

Pretty simple to answer your question and predict the future. Look at all there other product that do have competing vendors. They are still on the upper end of price range, performance and innovation. That's your model for the future.

[durango kid]

BRP, Arctic Cat, Polaris,& Yamaha all make snowmobiles. In the same engine classes and use areas ie: sport, touring,and big bump the pricing is close to each other.

[HedonismBot]

A new Harley & Goldwing trike were both more expensive than the Spyder when we looked by a significant margin. When compared to those, I think you get a great value considering the features.

[daveinva]

I think the only potential area for price competition is in the "sport" model segment. The RS has a lot of features that bring you close already to the ST & RT; one can figure that a competitor could design a less-complex "stripper" model to undercut RS sales.

But in the ST and RT market? No way in heck is the pricing coming down, they'll all synch within $1000 of each other. And at these price points, I know I'm not basing my decisions on a mere thousand dollars (yes, it's real money, especially in tough times, but over the life of owning a $20K-$30K+ farkle monster, a grand ain't bupkus).

No, the best thing about competition, if it occurs, will be competition in quality, features, and service. I think BRP has already demonstrated pretty well what the market will *pay* for reverse trikes; the question from here on out is whether people will pay the same for a competitor with (theoretically) better quality and more appealing features.

[Questions]

No manufacturer lowers their prices based on rumors. Until a competitor starts cutting into the :spyder2: market share, Can-Am has no reason to lower prices.

Considering the complexity of :f_spider:, I'm frankly amazed they sell for prices as low as they are. The Spyder RS and ST compete with Harley Softail models in price, yet the only thing modern on the 2013 Softail is fuel injection, throttle-by-wire, and ABS. The engine is air cooled and based on a 1936 design with minor improvements. When I compare the complexity of the :spyder2: with the simplicity of the Softail, I have to figure HD is making a killing on each sale.

There lies the problem with BRP and the Spyders. Too complex vs the Harley Davidson whatever model. Do you think simple might be better when it comes to work on them? Also they are less likely to break down with idiot codes.:doorag:

[cuznjohn]

i have heard that honda will never go into the trike business ever since their 3 wheeler hurt and killed so many people, when i had my 08 goldwing i was looking to trike it and was told that honda will void all warranty's because of that reason

[OldDog]

I can't really compare an Elio to a Spyder other than they both have a reverse three wheeled stance. An Elio, to me, is more of a cool commuter (ie car) vehicle. A spyder has more of of an open air motorcycle feel to it, which appeals to me more.

Regarding the the pricing question of a Spyder, my broken record whine is that my wife simply thinks it's too much money for a toy, period. :banghead: :roflblack:

On the other hand, I'm not real keen on buying a used one. Oh well, I'm blessed in many other ways and I love stirring the pot in fun on SL. :thumbup:

It gives Bob something to razz me about. :joke:

[Bob Denman]

Tell her it's not a toy... :gaah:
It's "Wind Therapy"... :thumbup:
And you'll save money on fuel by not running the family cage around for errands... :2thumbs:
AND you'll be accepted fully into the Family of Spyderers... (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_11_4.gifYou'll learn the secret handshake!)
AND AND; there's always SpyderFest in April... :clap:

[Bob Denman]

I like my Spyder but it is an inherently unsafe configuration which needs a lot of electronics to survive.
While I'm not real keen on how you put it; I've got a story to tell...
My RT was maybe a Month old; Sonny-Boy and I took it for a spin on a Saturday. As we were refueling it, an older gentleman approached us with a BIG smile on his face, and asked us how we liked our Spyder.
This guy had the look of someone who was "in the know", so we started talking with him...
It turns out that he worked for the subcontractor who figured out the front suspension design... He said that it was a real :cus: getting ti to handle the same with the trunk empty, or full...
He also told us that BRP was REAL close to pulling the plug on numerous occasions; it took getting Bosch on board to make it possible to bring the Spyder to market. :shocked:

[mxz600]

I like my Spyder but it is an inherently unsafe configuration which needs a lot of electronics to survive.

I disagree. I don't have a nanny in my sled and I don't need one in my Spyder. The Spyder would be more fun without it.

The nanny was developed to help keep the stupid people from hurting themselves.

I wish BRP offered a RS without the nanny.

I think that an inherently unsafe configuration would be one that can't stay upright on it's own.

[Bob Denman]

They wouldn't even begin to try and market it :shocked:...
The liability issues would be overwhelming! :gaah:
But I agree with your assessment as to what "inherently unsafe" means! :thumbup:

[OldDog]

Tell her it's not a toy... :gaah:
It's "Wind Therapy"... :thumbup:
And you'll save money on fuel by not running the family cage around for errands... :2thumbs:
AND you'll be accepted fully into the Family of Spyderers... (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_11_4.gifYou'll learn the secret handshake!)
AND AND; there's always SpyderFest in April... :clap:


You forgot the secret code ring!

[Bob Denman]

I'm not sure that they still give them out :shocked:...
I'll send you mine! ;)

[OldDog]

I believe the Spyder line will be the benchmark for coming competition. Spyders ARE getting better. BRP is going through the same developmental pains with the Spyder as Honda did with the Wing. The Wing has been in production since 75. They have had 38+ years to refine it into the touring platform it is today. Improvements in the dealer network, standardization of service training across the board, improvement in spare parts logistics, continued improvement in engineering and manufacturing methods will bring BRP into the world class realm.

The bottom line is "It don't come cheap"

Just my rambling.
Olddog :thumbup:

[Bob Denman]

The bottom line is "It don't come cheap"
"Good", never does! ;) :thumbup:

[Dan_Ashley]

. I like my Spyder but it is an inherently unsafe configuration which needs a lot of electronics to survive...

What evidence do you have supporting this claim? If the claim is only opinion, what engineering and/or research credentials does the originator of the claim really have?

I'll bet that I don't get any answers to this query...:dontknow:

Dan

[daveinva]

I always enjoy the internet bravura of those who bemoan the Nanny, as if it *really* takes away from our enjoyment.

For one, anyone can "trick" the Nanny by adding the stiffer anti-sway bar, better shocks, better tires, etc. I did, and as a result my RS trips the Nanny far later than a stock RS.

But, and here's where I disagree with the complaints, I can't recall a single situation where I hit the Nanny where my dumba$$ *didn't* need it. Meaning, when the Nanny's engaged on me, it's because I was really risking matters going pear-shaped: hot in a corner, inside wheel lifting, the limits of traction approaching. Nanny kicked in, adjusts speed and traction, and returns me to a safe planted stance.

Now, if I was racing my Spyder on a track, then maybe I'd be expert enough to want to go beyond that limit.

But I'm not on a track, I'm on a public road. And while I ride as spiritedly as any of the most spirited riders here (I guarantee that-- come ride with me, we'll have fun!), I still don't want to tempt fate on the Spyder.

The design of any trike is INHERENTLY unstable in extreme cornering situations. A reverse trike is better than a forward trike, but it's *still* a trike. The BRP engineers discovered that for themselves, and realized that at real-world cornering speeds, they could apply technology to help safeguard against this instability... and, as a result, make the Spyder BETTER performing than other trike.

People who believe the Nanny limits the Spyder's performance have it all wrong-- without the Nanny, you wouldn't be able to push the Spyder as far as you do! Ask anyone whose ridden a conventional forward trike how much "fun" it is not having traction and stability control in the twisties, and compare that experience to the Spyder.

Just for giggles, BRP should have a demo day at the next Owner's Event where they allow volunteers eager to ride a Spyder without the Nanny enabled do precisely that... and have them repeat for the record whether they're still enthusiastic about not having stability and traction control on the Spyder. :joke:

[Netminder]

You think they are expensive. Try buying one in Canada. :yikes:
:agree:Considering they are built in my home province and our country!

[Bob Denman]

I always enjoy the internet bravura of those who bemoan the Nanny, as if it *really* takes away from our enjoyment.

For one, anyone can "trick" the Nanny by adding the stiffer anti-sway bar, better shocks, better tires, etc. I did, and as a result my RS trips the Nanny far later than a stock RS.

But, and here's where I disagree with the complaints, I can't recall a single situation where I hit the Nanny where my dumba$$ *didn't* need it. Meaning, when the Nanny's engaged on me, it's because I was really risking matters going pear-shaped: hot in a corner, inside wheel lifting, the limits of traction approaching. Nanny kicked in, adjusts speed and traction, and returns me to a safe planted stance.

Now, if I was racing my Spyder on a track, then maybe I'd be expert enough to want to go beyond that limit.

But I'm not on a track, I'm on a public road. And while I ride as spiritedly as any of the most spirited riders here (I guarantee that-- come ride with me, we'll have fun!), I still don't want to tempt fate on the Spyder.

The design of any trike is INHERENTLY unstable in extreme cornering situations. A reverse trike is better than a forward trike, but it's *still* a trike. The BRP engineers discovered that for themselves, and realized that at real-world cornering speeds, they could apply technology to help safeguard against this instability... and, as a result, make the Spyder BETTER performing than other trike.

People who believe the Nanny limits the Spyder's performance have it all wrong-- without the Nanny, you wouldn't be able to push the Spyder as far as you do! Ask anyone whose ridden a conventional forward trike how much "fun" it is not having traction and stability control in the twisties, and compare that experience to the Spyder.

Just for giggles, BRP should have a demo day at the next Owner's Event where they allow volunteers eager to ride a Spyder without the Nanny enabled do precisely that... and have them repeat for the record whether they're still enthusiastic about not having stability and traction control on the Spyder. :joke:
Can't change or add a thing; other than, :agree:

[spyder3]

My wife is a nanny, I don't need another one:roflblack:

But seriously, I apparently do not need the nanny, as I have never felt it kick in. I have done some homework on the reverse trike being made in the NL with the GL1800. I've talk to someone who has ridden one and the guy making them. The feeling i get is that you would have to be riding that reverse trike Very very hard to lift a wheel or have the rear swerve out. It can be done if your trying to. I'm not sure how you would compare the other dynamics of each trike, but alot depends on the rider for certain.:lecturef_smilie:

[Bob Denman]

:agree: But you have to remember that the legal department has as big a hand in the design of the bikes, as do the engineers...
And they'll always design them to be ridden by the most ignorant and careless moron possible... :gaah:

[Dan_Ashley]

My wife is a nanny, I don't need another one:roflblack:

But seriously, I apparently do not need the nanny, as I have never felt it kick in. I have done some homework on the reverse trike being made in the NL with the GL1800. I've talk to someone who has ridden one and the guy making them. The feeling i get is that you would have to be riding that reverse trike Very very hard to lift a wheel or have the rear swerve out. It can be done if your trying to. I'm not sure how you would compare the other dynamics of each trike, but alot depends on the rider for certain.:lecturef_smilie:

My father was a PhD mechanical engineer. He was some kind of a project leader on the moon landing machinery...what I don't know as I was too young to understand, and he died before I thought to ask. When he retired he decided to redo Tesla's experiments. He found some errors in Tesla's calculations. My dad said that the errors did not affect the conclusions, but were errors just the same. His studies were published.

All that to say, my father was a really smart guy. At least when it came to engineering stuff.

he did explain to me on more than one occasion why reverse trikes are much safer than regular trikes. He even tried to start a consumer movement to get kids' trikes switched so they were reverse trikes. Yes, he was smart. Yes, he was somewhat of a kook.

If I remember correctly, he said that reverse trikes are 38% less likely to be involved in some kinds of crashes. I wish I still had his papers, so I could reference them...but I have to rely on my error prone memory.

So, I looked everywhere, and I did not find any crash statistics, published studies, or what have you for trikes, reverse trikes, two wheels vs four wheels.

I will keep looking, maybe I will go over to the university where I used to work and get a research librarian to help me.

If anyone has some data, or has any ideas where I can find some, please let me know.

Dan

[spyder3]

Whew. my BS generator just blew a fuse..[/QUOTE]



:roflblack:That seriously made me LOL

[Doktor]

My other bike is a three wheeler, as well, but it is a 1300VTX with an Escort sidecar, the first day I brought it home I went into a right turn that I had often gone into on my Goldwing at a fairly aggressive speed, the sidecar wheel came up about a foot, my inexperience had overloaded my ability. I think I sucked my seat up into my butt, then kicked the bars into a left turn. The laws of Physics are still in effect, I've since got to where I can pull it up in a right turn at will. Left turns, however, are rock solid, centrifugal motion still works too. The fork has been modified to allow almost effortless steering. All that said, to bring out the fact that if we stay within the vehicle's prescribed limits, and within our own limits, the inherent safety measures of our vehicle will prevent any undesirable results. :chat:


Doc

[GeoffCee]

Just for giggles, BRP should have a demo day at the next Owner's Event where they allow volunteers eager to ride a Spyder without the Nanny enabled do precisely that... and have them repeat for the record whether they're still enthusiastic about not having stability and traction control on the Spyder.

The last 3 cars I've bought have all had a stability control system of one kind or another and each provided the driver with the option of turning it off. I tried driving without it one time just to see what it was like but I was as nervous as a kitten, afraid that the car would behave badly and that I'd lose control and have an expensive crash. It was a short experiment that I will not repeat.

Likewise, I have absolutely no desire to find out what a nanny-free Spyder would be like to ride, I'll leave that to others who no doubt will want to tell us all about it if BRP ever gives them the chance. I'm not sure that it would be such a good idea, you have to consider what BRP would get out of it. One accident would result in a heap of negative publicity. :ani29:

[wyliec]

Just for giggles, BRP should have a demo day at the next Owner's Event where they allow volunteers eager to ride a Spyder without the Nanny enabled do precisely that... and have them repeat for the record whether they're still enthusiastic about not having stability and traction control on the Spyder. :joke:

Nanny or no nanny?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTjeoKXHzWg&feature=player_embedded

I wonder if the mask is BRP issued?

[Dan_Ashley]

Stability in vehicles is not measured when limits are exceeded (as in too fast through a corner), they are measured in normal flight regime (oops - cruise regime)

A 2 wheel cycle is not inherently unstable in a turn at speeds up to the limit, because it achieves a balance in turn and does not try to diverge from the turn or unseat the operator unless the operator induces the divergence, or one of the constants is disturbed (by an oil patch or change in the turn radius for instance).

A forward trike will diverge from a constant turn by exhibiting gross understeer, and lateral instability of the passenger compartment (tendency to fling operator off) at all times. Having to lean out of the vehicle axis is a sure sign of instability. What if airline passengers had to lean ? What if airplanes couldn't bank a la Spyder ?

A motorcycle does not understeer. And it holds the operator in the vehicle axis. Sportbike drivers who 'lean off' are just playing games with stability.

Granted, a forward trike will resist divergant factors like an oil patch better than a bike, up to a point. Problem is, this may induce you to crash at a higher speed.

Whew. my BS generator just blew a fuse..

So you are saying a two wheeler is stable in turns BECAUSE it leans, and a three wheeler is not stable because of the forces on the riders?

this ignores traction issues, two wheeler passengers leaning, and driving on edges of tires. It also assumes that a sport bike and a three wheeler SHOULD behave identically in a turn. Methinks your arguements are only a small part of the safety differences.

Also, watch the video above. You can't do that on a "more stable" two wheeler!

So, I repeat, what are your sources, and your credibility on this issue. I shared mine. Don't be afraid. Nobody will attack...

[Dan_Ashley]

:spyder2: :2thumbs: :welcome: :clap:

[wb4lrk]

With possible competition waiting in the wings, i.e. Arctic Cat, Polaris, Honda, et al, do you think that BRP would lower the cost of its Spyder line?
I don't need to state that Spyders are expensive. Do you think the competition could bring a lower price point to the table? I realize that technology such as ABS, the nanny etc. cost money. Do you think a Spyder is fairly priced in the market place given it's the only game in town, for now... :chat: I paid $22,000 plus $650 for shipping in an enclosed trailer from a dealer in Texas to my home in South Carolina for a new 2012 RT Limited in September of 2012. I think I got a good deal compared to the MSRP of almost $30,000. My local dealer wanted $25,400 for the exact same Spyder.

[Bob Denman]

It is interesting that in an airplane, if you dont bank ( lean) the airplane will not turn even with full rudder deflection. It is also interesting that raising the nose of an airplane will cause it to descend, not climb. These are counter- intuitive. Lay persons understanding of stability may be based on intuition therefore wrong.
:shocked::hun: We're not in planes... What "counterintuitive" circumstance are you referring to? I steer right; it goes right... it works pretty well to the left also.I stomp on the brake; it stops... If I even swear a little, it stops faster! :D

[boborgera]

Getting back to pricing and competition, Competition doesn't ''always'' reduce price, But it will make for a better product, Take the 3 major pickup trucks, All competing with each other, 3 different company's, 3 different parts suppliers, But all 3 are priced within a hundred dollars of each other....