Would you be interested in a tiliting trike?

[Tanshanomi]

Over the last couple of days, the motorcycle blog kneeslider.com (http://www.kneeslider.com) has run several posts about tilting trikes (meaning they lean like a motorcycle in turns). I noticed that several commentators mentioned the Spyder unfavorably, basically condemning it for not being a tilting trike. The implication is that the basic configuration of an "upright" trike is inherently flawed; that a tilting trike is somehow what a Spyder really should have been. I frankly have no interest in a tilting trike and think they're neither fish nor fowl -- nowhere near as lithe and elegant as a two-wheel motorcycle, and not as secure and relaxing to ride as a Spyder. Yes, I ride a bike, but I think the handling and sensations of piloting a Spyder are just as enjoyable.

What do you all think? Would you want a trike that leans like a bike?

68106

[joet82]

2 words...

HELL!

And

NO!

[Motorcycledave]

Anything to make it ride more like a motorcycle.... :)

[PrairieSpyder]

:agree: with you. Leaning on a 2-wheeler gave me a real sense of 'velocity' but having trike that does that would take away from the advantages of the Spyder. I like the security of the 3-wheel stance and don't have to worry about managing the bykes weight at lower speeds and tighter turns.

I think sometimes that people who object to the Spyder because it doesn't lean are really just needing a reason not to like it.

[Jeriatric]

Could be a draw for sport riders, but doubt the touring crowd has any need or desire for a leaner.

[diesel-dawg]

Nope...why would I want to tilt? Just because 2 wheelers have, repeat, have to tilt only because they have two wheels. We have automotive technology and it is fun like it is. I would not want my car to tilt either...same difference to me. It is natural to steer, since you do that with your car. Counter steering is a behavior that can get you into trouble in semi-hazardous road conditions and weather conditions. No thanks, continue to refine the Spyder as it is designed.

[asp125]

Don't hate, I would ride one if given the opportunity, I may like it, I may not. We're early adopters. If it weren't for that kind of attitude I might have never owned my Spyder; maybe none of us would have. I never thought the Spyder would be anything as fun as my two wheelers, but it is (almost, not quite). I looked at it as ewww.. a three wheeler? That's for old people... now I have one.

[connie9003]

NO

[Bob Denman]

Not interested...
BRP was smart when they designed this one the way that they did; Due to the ease with which it can be ridden, it'll draw more folks into the market! :thumbup:

[Tanshanomi]

Could be a draw for sport riders...

I know sport bike riders love the "swoop," but I also love feeling the side g-forces you get in a flat-handling vehicle like a racing kart...and that 2013 RSS I demo'd at SpyderFest felt an awful lot like that to me. :yes:

[BajaRon]

The misconception here is that a leaning trike leans like a bike. While both lean, that is where the comparison ends.

A motorcycle leans in direct relationship to centrifugal force. A little force, a little lean. A lot of force requires an identical opposite force in the form of greater lean. If you're off just a little bit and you don't make the necessary correction, you fall over.

On a leaning trike centrifugal force has nothing to do with the amount of lean. It is 100% turn angle because the lean is created by mechanical linkage, not the balance of the rider/machine. So you will get the same amount of lean for the same radius turn regardless of speed. Whereas on 2 wheels, the same radius turn will have an infinite variation in the amount of lean based on speed.

I am not saying that I would not like a leaning trike because I have never tried one. But my feeling is, it isn't worth the additional engineering. You are certainly going to lose the nice, wide tire footprint that makes our Spyders so stable.

My gut feeling is that if you want to lean, get 2 wheels.

[Bill Las Vegas]

A friend got a note from Bombardier indicating a spyder with tilting front wheels is in the works

[asp125]

.... and you will STILL have to steer it.

[mclaw44]

I would think I would say NO! but would have to try it! LMAO thats what sold me on my Spyder! Gotta remain open minded at least. I think it would be very hard to beat me off my Spyder!

[boborgera]

I can see disaster written all over it, When someone with out any Motorcycle experience tries to push it in the turns.... That thing will need a super nanny.... That said I'll like to take one out for a good hard ride, I'll try anything once, Twice even if i didn't brake any bones the first time. Hey the reason i got a Spyder as my first Street Trike, was that i listened to all the propaganda about two wheels in the front vs, two in the back.
My Tri-Glide will handle just as well as my Spyder did in the curves, Now on rough roads the Spyder is hands down smoother...... That i gotta say....

[Bob Denman]

A friend got a note from Bombardier indicating a spyder with tilting front wheels is in the works

Yup! With computers controlling the amount of lean... :shocked::hun:

[Tanshanomi]

the lean is created by mechanical linkage, not the balance of the rider/machine. So you will get the same amount of lean for the same radius turn regardless of speed.

Not always. Some leaning trikes have passive tilt, with no direct link between tilt and steering. Others use extremely sophisticated active management, such as the Carver (which was brilliant).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK4wzBYmTIo

[asp125]

The Carver is/was brilliant. A US company bought the technology behind their system and might be moving forward with it. http://www.flytheroad.com/

[Bob Denman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK4wzBYmTIo


Those boys DID make it look like a lot of fun! :roflblack:

[Arr MiHardies]

Not always. Some leaning trikes have passive tilt, with no direct link between tilt and steering. Others use extremely sophisticated active management, such as the Carver (which was brilliant).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK4wzBYmTIo

I believe the Piaggio mp3 is passive, but has something that kicks in t low speed so you don't have to hold it up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[BajaRon]

Not always. Some leaning trikes have passive tilt, with no direct link between tilt and steering. Others use extremely sophisticated active management, such as the Carver (which was brilliant).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK4wzBYmTIo

I knew there was some work in this direction but I was not aware of a working, much less a production model.

More of a car than a trike but the same technology could be applied. Pretty interesting.

[KAPike]

The first time I see BRP unload a tilting Spyder at a demo event, I'm first in line. Some people can't understand the thrill behind the current Spyder I have. Some, even here, won't understand the thrill behind a tilting Spyder either. I say bring it one.

[Bob Denman]

Ron,
I've thrown my name onto the pile with the folks who are building the Persu; I'll let you jknow what I hear from them... :thumbup:
As of now, there's not much info on their website, so I'm going to remain skeptical, but hopeful...

[daveinva]

Of course I'm interested... it's fun!

I see it mentioned above, but nobody appears to have ridden a Piaggio MP3. Same concept, works fine, feels much like any other scooter while riding. Wheels are narrow enough that you *can* drop it, but the two wheels up front do preclude much of the risk of washing out from gravel in a turn or front braking leaned over.

Setting the wheels on your reverse tilting trike even wider, like that bike in the photo at the top, or as wide as the Spyder's, and you're faced with even less risk. Honestly, I don't see how a Spyder-sized reverse tilting trike is any less safe or harder to operate than a Spyder. If anything, from a physics perspective it's safer, as you won't need a Nanny trying to keep a rigid trike planted.

I'm not sure BRP will ever put out a leaning Spyder. Yeah, they patented it, big whup- everybody patents everything, just as often to preclude someone else from building to that design versus building it yourself.

I just think that if BRP had the idea to build a leaner, they would have done it by now. Trouble is, as I've written here before, the moment they put one out with a similar level of polish to the current Spyder lineup, it'll cannibalize the existing designs something fierce. Yes, there are people (some in this thread) who have no interest in a leaning trike, but I'd venture that BRP would ultimately sell far, far more leaning trikes than rigid trikes if they get the formula right.

It's a chicken-and-the-egg deal: some Spyder riders, understandably defensive about their unique machine, swear that they have no interest in a leaning trike. Well, it's easy to say you don't want one *when there isn't one*. Once there is? Same fit, finish, polish, safety, but the perk of feeling that lean in the twisties? Might as well print your own money at that point.

I love my Spyder. I love the "go kart" feeling. It's like nothing else on the road. But just because I love chocolate doesn't mean I don't love vanilla, too. I contain multitudes. :doorag:

[ARCTIC]

All leaning on a trike does is assists in preventing inside wheel lift. Rather than leaning.... Put the front end on a rack so the bike doesn't stay centered between the front wheels. So when you turn right... The front slides over to get closer to the right wheel helping keep it planted around the corner. A few inches of shift would have A HUGE affect on decreasing inside wheel lift and increasing corner speed. Make it speed sensitive so the shifting only engages after a certain speed. The bike always remains upright :thumbup:
Side thought..... I wonder if the ones who think the spyder needs to lean have ever experienced first hand how hard these things will rail a corner as is :dontknow:

[asp125]

How many Spyder riders have ridden a Ski Doo? It would be fun if you could bank a Spyder like you can do with a sled in deep snow. Or for those in warmer climes, like you bank (& spin) a wave runner.

Heck, even if there was a way to tell Nanny to loosen up and let us do circle burnouts and lurid slides that would be too fun! Can't they just reprogram the VSS to allow for a larger yaw angle? Maybe not the RTs, just for the RS/RSS

[Jeriatric]

Side thought..... I wonder if the ones who think the spyder needs to lean have ever experienced first hand how hard these things will rail a corner as is :dontknow:

:popcorn: :doorag:

[Bob Ledford]

.... and you will STILL have to steer it.

Hopefully yes! I don't want no computer doing that for me yet!l

[ARCTIC]

How many Spyder riders have ridden a Ski Doo? It would be fun if you could bank a Spyder like you can do with a sled in deep snow. Or for those in warmer climes, like you bank (& spin) a wave runner.

Heck, even if there was a way to tell Nanny to loosen up and let us do circle burnouts and lurid slides that would be too fun! Can't they just reprogram the VSS to allow for a larger yaw angle? Maybe not the RTs, just for the RS/RSS


I don't ride ski-doo's but I ride real snowmobiles :roflblack: I have a 2013 M8 and a 2013 XF High Country and I travel west 3-4 times a year and north 5 or so times. There is NOTHING even close for summertime fun that compares to the things you can do and the insane terrain you can conquer on those things. Sidehilling is my favorite activity... I like to get it setup where I can go above and below trees then stop on the hill and be able to maintain the sidehill. :clap:

I do agree, they could get the nanny to loosen up a bit it would be awesome. Camaro's have 3 settings on their stabilitrak system. There's the normal driving and then the sport setting that lets you get a certain degree of yaw in your travel before it pulls you back and then OFF which is wfo.

[DragonLorD]

I have only two questions in regards of a leaning trike:

1,-what do you gain ? ( in comparison with Spyder? )

:dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow: :dontknow:

2,- what do you loose? ( in comparison with Spyder? )

- design, all tilters i've seen are but ugly
- frunk, - no tilters ever will have so you really better off on two wheeler for way less money
- price, - not that Spyders are Cheap but imagine a few 1000s extra on price tag
- feeling of firmness of that strong frame because tilter has to watch out for weight, look at them rather rods the frame is built off on tilters

[budro]

My Tri-Glide will handle just as well as my Spyder did in the curves, Now on rough roads the Spyder is hands down smoother...... That i gotta say..


Not even close---I ride both quite a bit, and the tri does not handle the curves as well as the Spyder

[Bob Denman]

...But the roll-on power is righteous!! :thumbup:

[Kratos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK4wzBYmTIo

This looks ABSOLUTELY FUUUUNNNN!!!! :clap:

[pro10is]

I would love to see BRP design and sell a tilting Spyder. It doesn't have to replace the existing design, they could sell them all side by side like the RS, RT, and ST. I'm always looking for something new and fun which is why I was attracted to the Spyder in the first place. I think the existing Spyder is an excellent design and it should continue as long as there is a demand, but that doesn't mean BRP, who has been one of the few companies that can actually successfully market innovative vehicles, should not design a tilting model. I'd bet it would be great fun to ride.

[daveinva]

Side thought..... I wonder if the ones who think the spyder needs to lean have ever experienced first hand how hard these things will rail a corner as is :dontknow:

Given that post-swaybar/post-upgraded shocks I've railed a corner hard enough to not only send the DPS flashing but *actually trigger a limp mode*... yeah, I'd say I've experienced it. :D :thumbup:

[Mexican]

Would buy one if they make them, i am an equal opportunity rider, i currently ride a Spyder, a Heritage Classic, a Triumph rocket3, a Honda blackbird and a Ninja 500, i knew something was missing, a leaning trike!!:)

[boborgera]

My Tri-Glide will handle just as well as my Spyder did in the curves, Now on rough roads the Spyder is hands down smoother...... That i gotta say..


Not even close---I ride both quite a bit, and the tri does not handle the curves as well as the Spyder


19 Thousand miles on my Ex- Spyder.
Over 17 Thousand miles on my Tri-Glide and still counting.....

But i'm not arguing, I'm simply explaining why I'm right....:roflblack:

[KAPike]

Someone is going to make a tilting spyder-like 3 wheeler. My folks generation didn't get to the moon by standing out on the back deck and looking at the moon and saying it can't be done. Doing the tilting 3 wheeler is WAY past my pay grade, but we have a lot of smart people in this world and someone is working on it. Move over I'm already in line and my tent is staying until the doors open.

[steve635]

Harley actually had a prototype for a leaning trike called the Penster, about the time BRP started producing Spyders. Don't know whatever happened to it, but it looked like a blast to me.
And yes I would love a leaning Spyder. Seems like the RS would be more suited to leaning, than an ST or RT, so like someone else already suggested have both versions available.

[flaggerphil]

If they make a leaning Spyder I'd be one of the first in line to give it a try. I think it would be great fun.

[JJW SpyderRider]

- design, all tilters i've seen are but ugly
- frunk, - no tilters ever will have so you really better off on two wheeler for way less money
- price, - not that Spyders are Cheap but imagine a few 1000s extra on price tag
- feeling of firmness of that strong frame because tilter has to watch out for weight, look at them rather rods the frame is built off on tilters

:agree:

They all look butt ugly!
No storage

If you look at the videos they show the trike going back and forth which looks like fun. But the few that show normal driving around a corner show the rider fighting to get the bike up right again. In some of the videos the ride does not get it back up all the way and is going down the road setting on the side of the seat.

If one could ever be made to look good and performed good in a straight line I might test ride it. I'm very happy with what I have now though.

[spydercatjohn]

Over the last couple of days, the motorcycle blog kneeslider.com (http://www.kneeslider.com) has run several posts about tilting trikes (meaning they lean like a motorcycle in turns). I noticed that several commentators mentioned the Spyder unfavorably, basically condemning it for not being a tilting trike. The implication is that the basic configuration of an "upright" trike is inherently flawed; that a tilting trike is somehow what a Spyder really should have been. I frankly have no interest in a tilting trike and think they're neither fish nor fowl -- nowhere near as lithe and elegant as a two-wheel motorcycle, and not as secure and relaxing to ride as a Spyder. Yes, I ride a bike, but I think the handling and sensations of piloting a Spyder are just as enjoyable.

What do you all think? Would you want a trike that leans like a bike?

68106

No because the lean is a gimmick not like physics principles on two wheels. I would get sea sick on that thing

[H.L.Spyder Guy]

Seems like an interesting idea.............for someone else. I lean enough already due too two bum knees, so if I got a tilting spyder would that then make me absolutely crooked?!!😅

[SXSMachine]

Wow is there a lot of people making a lot of assumptions especially without having ridden one!!

Some people are making a lot of technical calls without the experience the qualifications or the data. There seems to be a great lack of investigation into the industry as well as to what is available.

We even have the suggestion someone with no motorcycle experience will be given the opportunity to jump on one. Surely you need a motorcycle license to ride anything from a 50cc to a leaning trike to a Spyder and they are just about as in as much trouble at corner one if they make it that far and I think the Spyder that requires no balance or centrifugal force to supply it as about the only one likely to get them there. You dont have a nanny on a two wheeler and a mechanical tilting 3 wheeler rides like a two wheeler with, well like a two wheeler with an extra wheel how surprising!!

Just as everyone who rode a two wheeler and bought a spider had to re-learn the principles of forces that the bike would apply these bikes move you back towards the forces used in a two wheel bike and in fact the are exactly the same but with extra wheel provide a solid base that means you have to move a certain amount of force outside that base in order to get it to fall over its called the tipping point. The more wheels you put on it the wider the base and the more forces you need applied wider to get it to fall over in any way.

Would you think this would dump you on your ass?? Thanks I'll ride this over a Spyder or Carver anyday


http://youtu.be/tHXKuFcOF-0

For your own sake people get educated, like the number of Patents Can Am have just lodged for a tilting Spyder those who think they wont make one, have a look through this link about tilting http://www.projectstreetliner.com/category/tilting-and-suspension/


I have permission from my local roads authority to submit them plans for a leaning 4 wheel on road bike design and I am contracting that design and work at the moment to a company.

6828968288

Yamaha Tesseract is likely a familiar image to most people the other bike is called the Pendulato by a company Sbatto, notice how close their wheels are together like the Piaggio scooter, you get going and you have to work HARD to make it fall over even though a lot of your mass is outside the tipping point the forces inside the tipping point as generated by centrifugal force is greater.

Daveinva is the only one making an experience or mechanical point of view I had read up to the start of writing this although others are very pleasant in keeping an open mind. Everyone has the right to have a preference and theres nothing wrong with that, everyone can ride their own way and there is a multitude of bikes to satisfy that but people making claims to knowing pro's and cons to a bike and then not knowing what they are talking about?? woah!! :yikes:

Ride safe people.

[coz]

definately maybe.

[Flanker]

Bleep the leaning! Make mine 200HP at the flywheel :yikes:, add in a 6th gear, and ditch the traction control and VSS (at least make them so they can be switched off), so you can steer with the throttle. :firstplace: Oh yea......................and GET ON the P90X, and ditch about a 100-125 lbs of blubber. Now THAT's what I'm talkin' about! :yes: Hhhhhhhhmmmmmmm??????? Wonder if I could get my ZX14 motor into the RSS frame?????? :b2b:

[MRH]

The concept certainly looks like it has some potential, and I'd love to try it out. It does feel to me like some of us are looking for reasons not to like the concept, just as many others don't take to the idea of a three wheeled motorcycle with two of the wheels up front.

It sounds like fun, and it would seem to me that sooner or later there will be solid versions of this concept on the market.

[pro10is]

When it comes to building an innovative vehicle it's not so much the engineering that is a stumbling block, it's the marketing. Companies like BRP, Honda, Yamaha, etc. have more than enough engineering skills and resources to successfully develop a tilting three wheeled vehicle. What's stopping them is that they don't believe enough people will buy one. They're not going to invest the development capital until the experts in their marketing group tell them they can sell enough to make a profit. That's the only major reason a big name mass marketed tilting trike does not yet exist.

Given the fact of how difficult it is for a large company to market an innovative vehicle I think it's nothing short of a miracle that a vehicle like the Spyder even exists. I have no idea how someone in BRP championed it through executive management. Whoever that person is, we all owe him or her debt of gratitude.

[lookerjdc]

This looks ABSOLUTELY FUUUUNNNN!!!! :clap:

these guys have way too much fun, but us Americans are too tied to our old muscle cars to ever drive something like that (altho the new Fiats are making a run at it)

but I would love to drive one of those

I wouldnt want to Spyder to lean - I just dont see any need or purpose to it

[oldgoat]

Yes, I would like a tilting trike.

But I think it would depend on your history or driving/riding.

I had 55 years of motorcycle/maxiscooter riding before I bought my Spyder. I really miss the ease of leaning into the corners of the 2 wheels vs the muscling of the Spyder round them.

I had tried a Piaggio MP3 around a parking lot a few years back & was trying to decide whether I wanted the 250, 400 or 500cc version when the Spyder appeared. Yes you can tip over an MP3 at a stop but there is an electromagnetic brake you can activate at very low speeds to lock it upright if you feel the need to.

I have run out of $ to change from my Spyder but would surely like to have a tilting Spyder as long as it could not tip over at rest (the reason I have my Spyder now).

Loved the Carver video.

[Zenagirl]

Redesigning my Spyder to tilt? :yikes: I enjoy riding my Spyder as she is!!! I think if she was redesigned to tilt like a motorcycle, I'd feel like I had training wheels. I certainly don't feel like that now. She's a roadster and I enjoy riding a roadster! :yes::yes: OH.... Okay..... I just watched the CARVER video, and I have to say, that looks like a BLAST!!!!!! and with the top off is pretty cool, but my budget will stick with my Spyder as she is. :spyder2:

[SXSMachine]

The Carver is/was brilliant. A US company bought the technology behind their system and might be moving forward with it. http://www.flytheroad.com/

If you really do like a Carver and want to fly the road, why not do it literally!! lol

http://pal-v.com/