belt tension

[wildwillie]

can somewon tell me about the screws on the end caps,it seems like all they do is keep the end caps on,but others saythey are the adjustments screws.I need to increase the belt tension I only have 220 lbs. and I'm getting a vibration.wildwillie

[Lamonster]

The others are right. :doorag:

[wildwillie]

Has anyone had there tension reset or increased and watched how it is done.I noticed that the belt is riding against the pulley flange on the wheel.Sounds like I better see my dealers service dept. better be warranty work it come in this way.wildwillie

[SpyderMark]

can somewon tell me about the screws on the end caps,it seems like all they do is keep the end caps on,but others saythey are the adjustments screws.I need to increase the belt tension I only have 220 lbs. and I'm getting a vibration.wildwillie

Do the following in order:

1. Loosen axle nut (large nut on right side of swing arm)
2. Turn adjustment screws on rear of swing arms to adjust belt tension
3. Turn adjustment screw on rear of right swing arm to set belt alignment
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 until both are properly set
5. Tighten the axle nut to lock the rear wheel in place

A properly tensioned belt will deflect about 7/8 inch with ten pounds of pressure in the middle. When adjusting tension, turn both the adjustment screws the same amount. For example, turn BOTH screws (left and right swingarms) 1/4 turn then check tension, repeat if necessary.


IMPORTANT!!!!

Make small adjustments and check tension often; the consequences of improper tension can be dire (stripped drive belt, destroyed wheel bearings, etc.)!

To set belt alignment you must turn only one adjustment screw. If you adjust only the RIGHT side, you have less chance of affecting the belt tension. If you can, jack your Spyder's rear wheel off the ground, start her up, place the transmission in third and ease the clutch out. This allows the rear wheel to spin while the engine idles.


CAUTION!!!!!

Make sure the front wheels are securely chocked to prevent the Spyder from rolling off the jack! Best case if she rolls off the jack: the engine stalls when the spinning rear wheel hits the ground, worst case: use your imagination!

Make small adjustments of the right-side adjustment screw while watching the gap between the belt and the drive sprocket internal flange. The Operator's Guide calls for 1mm clearance.

If you can't jack the rear wheel you must make a small adjustment on the screw, tighten the axle nut, drive her a bit then check the belt alignment -- bit of a pain in the @ss really...

Once you have the alignment set, recheck the tension. If the tension is off, make small adjustments of BOTH screws.

It's an iterative process -- continue adjusting both tension and alignment until you have them both properly set.

Good luck!

Regards,

Mark

[Lamonster]

Nice writeup Mark. The only thing I question is if you run your Spyder on the jackstands it's going to throw it into "Limp Mode". Ask me how I know that. ;D The good news is it will rset itself. :doorag:

[barb36jack31]

On other belt drive bikes, I used the rule of thumb that if you can twist the belt 90 degrees at the midpoint between pulleys you are in the ball park. The belt on my Spyder when delivered was at that tension level, i.e. 90 degree twist at the midpoint. What is the general opinion of using this technique?

Jack H.

[Oxblood]

Nice write up Mark. However, how much tension is actually needed? If you measure that with a belt tension meter, what should the tension read?

[SpyderMark]

Nice writeup Mark. The only thing I question is if you run your Spyder on the jackstands it's going to throw it into "Limp Mode".

I think that's a hit or miss possibility... Didn't happen on ours when I adjusted tension/alignment at the 625 mile service.

But you're right, it could happen. My understanding is the computer senses a difference in speed between the spinning rear wheel and stationary front wheel and assumes a problem with the wheel speed sensors. Since the wheel speed sensors are an integral part of the vehicle stability system, the computer assumes the entire system is compromised and enters "limp mode."

As you mentioned, a shut down and restart (presumably the computer reboots itself) clears the limp mode and you're back in business.

Regards,

Mark

[SpyderByte]

I think that's a hit or miss possibility... Didn't happen on ours when I adjusted tension/alignment at the 625 mile service.

But you're right, it could happen. My understanding is the computer senses a difference in speed between the spinning rear wheel and stationary front wheel and assumes a problem with the wheel speed sensors. Since the wheel speed sensors are an integral part of the vehicle stability system, the computer assumes the entire system is compromised and enters "limp mode."

As you mentioned, a shut down and restart (presumably the computer reboots itself) clears the limp mode and you're back in business.

Regards,

Mark


What is "limp mode"???

[bjt]

Limp mode is when one of the Spyder's computers detect a problem. It allows the Spyder to run but regulates the maximum speed. I think there are two levels of limp mode based on how serious the computers think the problem is. One is about 40 or 45 MPH max and the other, for more serious problems, is less than that. I am not sure on any of what I just said but I believe that is what the service guy at my dealership told me.

[SpyderMark]

Nice write up Mark. However, how much tension is actually needed? If you measure that with a belt tension meter, what should the tension read?

Unfortunately, I don't have or use a tensiometer, so I don't have the info you're looking for. 7/8 inch deflection with ten pounds pressure in the center of the belt is the only specification I know of.

Sorry,

Mark

[Roaddog2]

:spyder:I don't think to many of us will ever have a tension meter since they cost a dealer 600.00 dollars or so :spyder:

[Lamonster]

:spyder:I don't think to many of us will ever have a tension meter since they cost a dealer 600.00 dollars or so :spyder:


Naw, 25 bucks and they work great. I've been using them for years on my Boss Hoss. :bigthumbsup:

Amazon.com: Gates 91132 Belt Tension Tester: Automotive

http://www.mainsupplies.com/images/IMG_0164.JPG

[Roaddog2]

Naw, 25 bucks and they work great. I've been using them for years on my Boss Hoss. :bigthumbsup:

http://www.amazon.com/Gates-Krikit-V-Belt-Tension-Gauge/dp/B000CRDLZM

http://www.mainsupplies.com/images/IMG_0164.JPG
I know about this type same deal for H-D. But they are doing it with sonicwaves now but your tensioner I,m sure is more than good enough.

[Twodog185]

http://www.mainsupplies.com/images/IMG_0164.JPG


In this picture of a Krikit Guage, the parameters are from 100 lbs to 350 lbs.

I've read tension should be set at 1400N to 1600N
I don't understand what "N" is, and how to achieve the 1400 to 1600. I assume it's using the sonic tool.

I've read if the belt moves between 11/16" and 7/8" @ 10 lbs pressure it's coorect...is that using the Krikit with parameters 20 lbs to 150 lbs?

I've read where somebody had 350 lbs of tension, but did not explain how that measurement was achieved.

I have a Krikit tool (100 to 300 lbs). I also have a Krikit tool (20 to 150 lbs.

Is the 20-150 used to get the 10 lbs of pressure and 7/8"?

Or is the 100-350 used to achieve what measurement?

This may sound stupid, but if I lift the belt with my finger at or about the same pressure needed to lift a 10 lb can of gravel, the belt moves just 11/16".

Is that shade tree mechanics, or what?

Final answer please.:banghead:

[garganos]

Nice write up Mark. However, how much tension is actually needed? If you measure that with a belt tension meter, what should the tension read?
The correct tension with the sonic tension meter from gates is 1400 - 1500 Newton. Be sure to set the meter to the proper specs first. The belt should be just off the inner flange by 0.5 - 1.0mm. I have been putting them all at 0.7mm:thumbup:

[NancysToy]

I picked up a Krikit at NAPA today (NBHKR2) for about $14.
-Scotty

[Twodog185]

Garganos...we don't have sonic laser tension nuclear devices...we have cheap little gizmos that may get us close....but how??

[Twodog185]

I just tried my gizmo...pushed up on the belt until the gizmo clicked. Did it four times, each time it was on 200 lbs. Is that where it needs to be?

[jeuchler]

...I've read tension should be set at 1400N to 1600N
I don't understand what "N" is, and how to achieve the 1400 to 1600. I assume it's using the sonic tool.

I've read if the belt moves between 11/16" and 7/8" @ 10 lbs pressure it's coorect...is that using the Krikit with parameters 20 lbs to 150 lbs?

I've read where somebody had 350 lbs of tension, but did not explain how that measurement was achieved.

I have a Krikit tool (100 to 300 lbs). I also have a Krikit tool (20 to 150 lbs.

Is the 20-150 used to get the 10 lbs of pressure and 7/8"?

Or is the 100-350 used to achieve what measurement?

This may sound stupid, but if I lift the belt with my finger at or about the same pressure needed to lift a 10 lb can of gravel, the belt moves just 11/16".

Is that shade tree mechanics, or what?

Final answer please.:banghead:

N is the abbrevaition for Newton, a unit of force.

1 newton = approximately 0.224808943 pounds force (call it a quarter for memory's sake)

or

1 pound force = about 4.44822162 newtons

so

1400 newtons = about 314.73252 pounds force

By the way, the force required to hold a medium sized apple is about = to one Newton. Cute, eh? Newton...apple... nojoke

[Twodog185]

You're the man.

So, if I used my Krikit gizmo, and showed 200 lbs, that would equate to 890N.

[Lamonster]

One thing to consider is "belt wrap". On my blower bikes it's a fine line to get enough belt wrap to where the belt won't slip on the pulley. This is a non issue on the Spyder seeing we have so much belt wrap. There is no way you are going to slip that belt with as much wrap as we have. I think you could safely back off the tension to 200lbs and reduce the wear on the belt and the bearings. I'm running mine at about 250 right now and I can't see running it any higher. This ain't a Boss Hoss belt or Boss Hoss power. ;)

[kma10-4]

by turning screws clockwise does that pull axle toward the rear?

[Lamonster]

by turning screws clockwise does that pull axle toward the rear?
yes

[tweeder]

Does anybody have a gates/kricket thingie for sale? Amazon wont ship it to canada. I checked with napa and they no longer carry it in canada. Theres no listing on ebay for that perticular one either, just way more expensive ones.

[Donzo]

by turning screws clockwise does that pull axle toward the rear?

Yes, clockwise will tighnen the belt.

[northramp]

Rightie tightee..Leftee Looseee...:bowdown:

[krb1945]

The tool that spyder man has is also available at carquest. Here in north central FL it is 18.47each

[QuadManiac]

I've got the Gates tool now, thanks to your earlier posting, Lamonster, but i seem to get significant variations in my measurements - all so far are between 200 and 300... I've been careful to reset the lever to 0, measure near the belt's center between the pulleys, center the tool on the width of the belt and push with one finger in the correct location. Still huge variations in measured tension.

Am i doing something wrong, or is this just a measure a bunch of times and average the results kind of tool?

[Lamonster]

I've got the Gates tool now, thanks to your earlier posting, Lamonster, but i seem to get significant variations in my measurements - all so far are between 200 and 300... I've been careful to reset the lever to 0, measure near the belt's center between the pulleys, center the tool on the width of the belt and push with one finger in the correct location. Still huge variations in measured tension.

Am i doing something wrong, or is this just a measure a bunch of times and average the results kind of tool?
You're doing something wrong or there is something wrong with your tool. :dontknow: Mine is the same every time.

[NancysToy]

You're doing something wrong or there is something wrong with your tool. :dontknow: Mine is the same every time.
Mine too.
-Scotty http://www.pmdawnonline.com/forum/images/smilies/velo.gif

[krb1945]

I got the gates tool yesterday and tested my belt tension both cold, sitting overnight, and hot, after riding :yes:about 10 miles on a 90+ day.

Measurements obtained per shop manual procedure but with the wheel on the ground and no jack lifting.

Belt cold
Cold - spoke aligned 280
Cold - centered between spokes 240

Belt hot
Hot - spoke aligned tension exceeded guage max of 320
Hot - centered between spokes tension exceeded guage max of 320

Is this normal and acceptable? I thought heat caused expansion or caused a belt to losen.

I need guidance here. Sure would not want to run it to tight and eat the bearings or belt up. Only have 150 miles on this SE5.

[ataDude]

I got the gates tool yesterday and tested my belt tension both cold, sitting overnight, and hot, after riding :yes:about 10 miles on a 90+ day.

Measurements obtained per shop manual procedure but with the wheel on the ground and no jack lifting.

Belt cold
Cold - spoke aligned 280
Cold - centered between spokes 240

Belt hot
Hot - spoke aligned tension exceeded guage max of 320
Hot - centered between spokes tension exceeded guage max of 320

Is this normal and acceptable? I thought heat caused expansion or caused a belt to losen.

I need guidance here. Sure would not want to run it to tight and eat the bearings or belt up. Only have 150 miles on this SE5.

That seems high. The last time I used the Gates tool (cold) to set it, it was at 225... I don't like tight, either.

After that, the dealer measured it with the sonic tool and it was on the low end of the acceptable BRP range.

.

[spyryder]

Belt cold
Cold - spoke aligned 280
Cold - centered between spokes 240

Belt hot
Hot - spoke aligned tension exceeded guage max of 320
Hot - centered between spokes tension exceeded guage max of 320

Is this normal and acceptable? I thought heat caused expansion or caused a belt to losen.


It's most likely the rear sprocket heating up and expanding causing the the readings to increase.:f_spider:

[krb1945]

Thanks for the information... I completely forgot about the sprocket expanding when heated. Little gray cells aren't sharp as a tack now.

Also when I said cold... the temp in the garage had been in the 90's but the :spyder2:machine had not been on the road yet.

Thanks again.

[Putt-Putt]

Looks like a trip to NAPA.

[spyder1969]

For those of us less mechanicly inclined, could someone post pictures of adjustment screws for belt tension and alignment? You guys are a brilliant bunch. If I could do what ya'll do with mods and improvements, the service shop would go out of business!

Thanks,
Scott:spyder2:

[ataDude]

For those of us less mechanicly inclined, could someone post pictures of adjustment screws for belt tension and alignment? You guys are a brilliant bunch. If I could do what ya'll do with mods and improvements, the service shop would go out of business!

Thanks,
Scott:spyder2:

Here you go... one Allen-head bolt on each side... clockwise to tighten, counter-clockwise to loosen belt... after you loosen the 36mm axle nuts. <<Fixed the loosen/tighten stuff>>

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=19&pictureid=3402

[spyder1969]

Stay healthy atadude, we need you!:2thumbs:

Scott
:ohyea:

[ataDude]

Stay healthy atadude, we need you!:2thumbs:

Scott
:ohyea:

Aw, shucks.
http://www.blueskyresumesblog.com/images/2007/06/19/blushing.jpg

[Putt-Putt]

Here you go... one Allen-head bolt on each side... clockwise to loosen, counter-clockwise to tighten belt... after you loosen the 36mm axle nuts.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=19&pictureid=3402


Clockwise to loosen & counter-clockwise to tighten?? Are these then left hand threads on allen bolts?? :dontknow:
Just seems it would be the other way around with right hand thread bolts.

[ataDude]

Clockwise to loosen & counter-clockwise to tighten?? Are these then left hand threads on allen bolts?? :dontknow:
Just seems it would be the other way around with right hand thread bolts.

Maybe I'm just a backward guy? Have you thought of that? :D

I do believe you're right... I'll change the original post. Must be Old Timers again even though I'm only 29. :pray:
.

[spyder1969]

Just did my first belt alignment today thanks to my spyder family!!! :clap::2thumbs: Using the 90 degree twist method for tension until I can get a cricket gauge. I thought the belt was supposed to go away from the lip when the adjustment screw turned left; of course, I found out different without incident. Thanks again to my spyder family for the $$$$ savings!!!
:chat:
Also, I would like to see some torque numbers if ya'll know of any. Always nice to use the torque gauge when possible instead of muscle and my judgement.

Love ya'll,
Scott
:spyder2::yes::ohyea:

[Spyderman01]

You guys have confused me, which way do you turn the allen screw to loosen the drive belt?

[ataDude]

You guys have confused me, which way do you turn the allen screw to loosen the drive belt?

Counter-clockwise. BTW, we confuse ourselves! :D
.

[BeRight]

I have read the same parameter-keep belt 1mm away from inner flange on rear wheel.

I noticed that my belt hugs against the front thingy flange - yet no mention in service manual where it should be:dontknow:

In order to keep the belt straight shouldn't there be specs for both ends of the belt???? Maybe give or take a mm doesn't matter but it seems the belt should be away from the front flange as well.

[NancysToy]

I have read the same parameter-keep belt 1mm away from inner flange on rear wheel.

I noticed that my belt hugs against the front thingy flange - yet no mention in service manual where it should be:dontknow:

In order to keep the belt straight shouldn't there be specs for both ends of the belt???? Maybe give or take a mm doesn't matter but it seems the belt should be away from the front flange as well.
Technically that may be correct, but it is difficult to achieve exact measurements at both ends. If you get the back right, the front should take care of itself. If the belt is riding against either flange, it should be adjusted. Eventual belt wear and possible damage will result if the belt continuosly rides the flange.

[Spyderman01]

I dont have a socket that big.........I tried an adjustable wrench (monkey wrench) with no luck as I didnt want to round the end off the nut....Seems like the factory really torqued that bolt down, how hard is it to get off?

[ataDude]

I dont have a socket that big.........I tried an adjustable wrench (monkey wrench) with no luck as I didnt want to round the end off the nut....Seems like the factory really torqued that bolt down, how hard is it to get off?

You need a good 36mm socket or box-end wrench. The specified torque on the axle nut is in the 90 FP range. That is a lot.
.

[czdaryle]

I have read the same parameter-keep belt 1mm away from inner flange on rear wheel.

I noticed that my belt hugs against the front thingy flange - yet no mention in service manual where it should be:dontknow:

In order to keep the belt straight shouldn't there be specs for both ends of the belt???? Maybe give or take a mm doesn't matter but it seems the belt should be away from the front flange as well.

I just noticed mine is too. Do I follow the steps early in the post to lossen the belt? Then move it over, tighten again. If so I guess that would mean losening the axile nut, turn both hexs nuts equal turns to the left to losen belt. Move the belt over 1mm and then turn both hexs nuts equal turns to the right until proper tenision and then tighten axile nut. Is this correct?

I could take this to the dealer but I would like to learn to do the belt tension myself as I already have purchase the tool.

thanks

[NancysToy]

I just noticed mine is too. Do I follow the steps early in the post to loosen the belt? Then move it over, tighten again. If so I guess that would mean loosening the axile nut, turn both hexs nuts equal turns to the left to loosen belt. Move the belt over 1mm and then turn both hexs nuts equal turns to the right until proper tenision and then tighten axile nut. Is this correct?

I could take this to the dealer but I would like to learn to do the belt tension myself as I already have purchase the tool.

thanks
You are correct that the axle nut needs to be loosened to adjust tension or alignment. If your belt tension is good right now, but the alignment is off, loosen the axle nut, then adjust only the right adjusting screw. If your tension is too tight or too loose, do both screws in slightly different amounts. For instance, if you want the belt to track further right at roughly the same tension, loosen the right adjuster ever so slightly, pull the wheel back sharply to seat the adjuster, tighten the axle nut, and test by riding or by running with the Spyder securely jacked up. I suggest adjustments in increments of bolt flats. Try half a flat or a whole flat first. For the same tension with the belt tracking too far left, tighten the right adjuster. It may take a few tries to get it exactly where you want it.

[docdoru]

Do not adjust the belt position after backing up your Spyder: the belt is 5-10 mm away from the flange.

[ataDude]

I just noticed mine is too. Do I follow the steps early in the post to lossen the belt? Then move it over, tighten again. If so I guess that would mean losening the axile nut, turn both hexs nuts equal turns to the left to losen belt. Move the belt over 1mm and then turn both hexs nuts equal turns to the right until proper tenision and then tighten axile nut. Is this correct?

I could take this to the dealer but I would like to learn to do the belt tension myself as I already have purchase the tool.

thanks

BTW... if you have a hydraulic jack... jack up the rear end so that the tire is off of the floor... start it and place in third gear... and adjust the gap while the wheel/tire is rotating. That saves the "adjust-a-little, ride-a little" scenario. Makes it very quick to adjust.
.

[czdaryle]

thanks guys....gonna try to get today...love this place!!!

[Questions]

When measuring belt tension with the Krikit gauge, I assume the measurement is taken at the center of the belt. That being the case, how much deflection of the belt should there be before the guage clicks?

[BAZMAN]

i found a 36 mm socket at sears for only 9 bucks, it was a craftsman too.
i wasnot able to lift the rear of the bike so i just rolled it back and forth to set the
adjustment. my belt was running against the flange so i turned the right
side allen head 1 full turn clockwise. i marked the top of the allen with a
marking pen to make sure i only turned it one turn. one the left side i
turned the allen head one turn counter clock wise to loosen the belt.
my torque wrench only goes to 75 lbs. so after using it i took my half inch
breaker and tightened it a LITTLE BIT more. i did not have guage so i used
the belt twist method , the belt loosened a little. you will also need a big
crescant or a pipe wrench to hold the left hand nut. i knew i would not be
able to ride the spyder untill monday so i made miner ajustments.

[Latemarch]

When measuring belt tension with the Krikit gauge, I assume the measurement is taken at the center of the belt. That being the case, how much deflection of the belt should there be before the guage clicks?

The gauge clicks with 10 Lbs of pressure.
The amount of deflection (which is what the gauge is measuring at 10 Lbs of pressure) tells you the tension of the belt.

Clear as mud?

[Questions]

The gauge clicks with 10 Lbs of pressure.
The amount of deflection (which is what the gauge is measuring at 10 Lbs of pressure) tells you the tension of the belt.

Clear as mud?

Thank you. Perhaps if I had bought the Krikit and read the instructions first, I would have answered my own question. I'm off to NAPA.

[Pilo]

Naw, 25 bucks and they work great. I've been using them for years on my Boss Hoss. :bigthumbsup:

Amazon.com: Gates 91132 Belt Tension Tester: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/Gates-Krikit-V-Belt-Tension-Gauge/dp/B000CRDLZM)

http://www.mainsupplies.com/images/IMG_0164.JPG

Just bought the Gates Green Stripe Krikit II Gage.

To say that its instructions and small sketches are confusing is an overstatement...

Anybody out there with clearer instructions / pictures on how to properly use this gage...?

Thanks in advance, Pilo

[wyliec]

Just bought the Gates Green Stripe Krikit II Gage.

To say that its instructions and small sketches are confusing is an overstatement...

Anybody out there with clearer instructions / pictures on how to properly use this gage...?

Thanks in advance, Pilo

Did you read the directions by the first poster here? - http://www.amazon.com/Gates-Krikit-V-Belt-Tension-Gauge/dp/B000CRDLZM

I don't have one; but, his/her instructions seem straight forward. I also noticed Baja Ron had a post there.

[Pilo]

Did you read the directions by the first poster here? - http://www.amazon.com/Gates-Krikit-V-Belt-Tension-Gauge/dp/B000CRDLZM

I don't have one; but, his/her instructions seem straight forward. I also noticed Baja Ron had a post there.

Thanks Wyliec, that´s exactly was I was looking for.

I did not buy it from Amazon, so I did not see any reviews.

Saludos, Pilo