Which handles better, Spyder or bike?

[NoJive]

So I was watching a discussion at another site on the Elio reverse trike car thingy. Somehow the discussion moved towards the Spyder, with one guy stating he wouldn't be caught dead on a Spyder. The only reason he would consider one is when he got too old to hold up 2 wheels. No way he would give up the better handling of a bike. That led me to chip in, as I personally know a guy that rides his Spyder with a group of Harley riders. If the guy is really pushing it, no one can keep up with him in the twisties. Well, the commenter called BS on this, even though he has never even ridden a Spyder. Another guy replied that he could see that, given the much larger contact patch of the Spyder tires. So all this leads to my simple question, which can take a turn faster?

[Jeriatric]

Does it really matter. I've found that those who are not open to reality wouldn't accept it if it was proven to them up front and personal. Let the guy rant. Cause folks like that will never listen to a word you say, anyway. nojoke

[vrodrjs]

Depends on what HD you are talking about. I ride with some guys on FLHX and I can bust them through the turns. There is also a guy that rides a StreetRod (VRSCR) and he can get out ahead of me when he really pushes it. That is me on my RT, stock at the time.

[Chezeburger]

your comparing apples and oranges. I ride both my gf's rt-s and my two wheel v-star while they both have different handling they both react differently.
if you are comfortable with the spyder you can push it hard the same as two wheels.
i know i had an incident where we were together on the spyder and a person stopped dead ifo us with no warning:yikes: i was able to swerve around the car going on to the dirt shoulder and yanking the spyder back onto the road with out any issues, other then wanting to beat that person and taking a few years of life from me, i do know that if i had been faced with the same incident on two wheels it probally would not have ended well.

again apples and oranges, but the spyder with wider tires and more contact with road give alot traction even in rain.

chezeburger

hoped this helps and didn't confuse you.

[vrodrjs]

2400 bps back in the BB days, when downloading a 1 MB file took all day.

[Paulf10]

Does it really matter. I've found that those who are not open to reality wouldn't accept it if it was proven to them up front and personal. Let the guy rant. Cause folks like that will never listen to a word you say, anyway. nojoke


:agree: Completely !!!
When I switched from Harley's to a Goldwing I heard all sorts of rants. And in every case it was from people with far less riding experience than me. Now that I've switched from two wheels to a Spyder, the uninformed, ignorant, ranting opinions of these people is even worse.

Just as Jerbear said, I learned a long time ago that trying to explain, or even have a reasonably intelligent discussion on the issues, was a futile exercise on my part. The only real choice you have, is to just let them rant and of course compliment them for their vast experience, knowledge, and expertise. ( sarcastically as you can with a smile on your face of course)

[Chupaca]

With the apple oranges thing. Since we got our RS, One of the main questions asked is how does it handle.? Is it better than a two wheeler.? Now I equate ryding a roadster to driving a formula 1 race car while on horseback. While riding a two wheeler to riding a motorized horse. The hard core biker will not give in to any explanation or even listen to what your saying. And I for one would never let them try my roadster for fear they would do themselves harm... That said I'll crawl on outta here..!!:roflblack::spyder2:

[r1100rider]

So I was watching a discussion at another site on the Elio reverse trike car thingy. Somehow the discussion moved towards the Spyder, with one guy stating he wouldn't be caught dead on a Spyder. The only reason he would consider one is when he got too old to hold up 2 wheels. No way he would give up the better handling of a bike. That led me to chip in, as I personally know a guy that rides his Spyder with a group of Harley riders. If the guy is really pushing it, no one can keep up with him in the twisties. Well, the commenter called BS on this, even though he has never even ridden a Spyder. Another guy replied that he could see that, given the much larger contact patch of the Spyder tires. So all this leads to my simple question, which can take a turn faster?downhill bad camber wet or gravel spyder all the way very good rider on a sportbike spyder can't keep up

[Tierhog]

Would agree with 1100 provided its a sportbike as he mentioned. I'd add all the two wheelers I ride with are cruiser/bagger types that arent super proficient either. We are generally about equal on our rides, twisties and straights alike. I enjoy the rides. Some of these guys talk a mean game, but in reality, they are weekend warriors who like to dress up like pirates on Sat. Afternoon. Thus far, Spyder riders seem like a more humble bunch of spirited/all weather riders to me, but thats just my opinion. :)

Lastly, Ive never had a problem keeping up, in fact... Ive been asked where the fire is. You have to love that Rotax torque :D

[MouthPiece]

I've been participating in forums, bulletin boards and chat rooms since 1987 and am shocked by your assertion that someone's opinion while ranting could not be changed by reasoned and well formed logical arguments .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........:joke:

Roger, it's 6:30 A.M., here in Sanford, and again, thanks for putting a smile on my face.

Chris

[NoJive]

Wow, didn't expect this many replies! :)

I realize you cannot talk to some people. I've been on different forums since the early '90s when all I had was my local ACE's BBS. I was just more curious myself. Like everyone else here, people always ask how it handles the curves. I was talking to a guy yesterday that was on a Star something or other (1900cc!!), and while looking over my Spyder, his first comment was "I heard they were very tricky in the turns".

[Bob Denman]

Now that everybody is nicely awake and alert...:coffee: It sure looks as if the weather for the trip to Missouri is looking better... :thumbup:

[gnirtsnod]

...That led me to chip in, as I personally know a guy that rides his Spyder with a group of Harley riders. If the guy is really pushing it, no one can keep up with him in the twisties. Well, the commenter called BS on this, even though he has never even ridden a Spyder. Another guy replied that he could see that, given the much larger contact patch of the Spyder tires. So all this leads to my simple question, which can take a turn faster?

Let's face it. A big motive of involvement in any forum is a concept called 'confirmation bias', meaning that we are looking for confirmation that our choice was best. It's a group of like-minded people who choose to argue over the better farkle, not the better bike. Let someone who is not a part of that group offer up logical input, inconsistent with the other's way of thinking and there will be pushback, or a call of BS.

Harley riders (and I am one), for the most part have had a big swig of the Kool Aid, and will choose poorer performance for the buck, then argue to their death why we are wrong for our choices, not why they are right for theirs.

Let's be happy with our choice, hope that others are happy with theirs, and that we all ride safely.

[jthornton]

Unless you own and ride both vehicles in question your opinion is just that and nothing more. I ignore all opinions from the fence sitters... like my momma said "never argue with an idiot, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

JT

[joet82]

In response to the handling question, I just say SMOOTH!...then proceed to tell them about a 55mph reccomended speed corner on a hwy interchange that I have taken at 90 with stock 09 RS shocks (never tried it at full speed with my Elkas). Lol. That right there makes them go on to the next question.

[DrewNJ]

.......... I enjoy the rides. Some of these guys talk a mean game, but in reality, they are weekend warriors who like to dress up like pirates on Sat. Afternoon.............

Hahaha......




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[Farmbanker]

"never argue with an idiot, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

JT

:agree: That is a good one! And true!

[NancysToy]

When someone asks how my Spyder handles, I just say "I like it!" When someone asks how my BMW handles, I say the same thing. My old Triumph...ditto. Heck, I'm even happy with my F-150. It isn't a race, a contest, an advertisement, or a justification. Every ride has its own place in the sun, and a Spyder, a two-wheeler, a sidecar, or even an MGA can't be directly compared except in one place at one time. Better to spend our time riding than debating the relative merits of our rides.

[MouthPiece]

Now that everybody is nicely awake and alert...:coffee: It sure looks as if the weather for the trip to Missouri is looking better... :thumbup:

But have you seen what "accuweather" is forecasting for Wednesday and Thursday temperature wise?

Chris

[boborgera]

I think some are confusing handling with safety, 3 wheels are hands down safer.
But any vehicle, if you tend to drive it to it's limit, One day you might/will make it in the morning papers. :sour:

[Captain Fin]

Hahaha......




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Arrrrrg! Did someone say Pirates? I dress like a Pirate everyday.

[Neez]

It would depend upon what model of Harley and the skill of the rider. I ride both motorcycles and my Spyder. I found that when my GS SE5 was stock, I would be quicker in the twisties on a bike, due to the Spyder wallowing. After adding aftermarket shocks and swaybar, I am quicker on the Spyder. Others may vary, of course. I would say, if you insist on choosing off the local bikers in the twisties, talk to Elka and Bajaron.

[dtkennney]

I do not have a spider yet,but as I close in on 69 I am beginning to think of 3 wheels. Right now I ride a Honda DN-01. When I first got it I got all kinds of comments about it not being a real bike, besides being ugly etc,etc. After discussing issues with other riders. I finally decided on a simple response.

"I love the bike and that is all that matters"

kept the discussions short.

When I eventually get an RT I will say the same thing

[Bob Ledford]

every one has an opinion on everything. The real trick is to make them think yours is the better one without turning it into a shouting match. Once it turns into a shouting match it becomes impossible to tell which one is the missing village idiot!

At the end of the day who really gives a big hoot?

[Jeriatric]

It would depend upon what model of Harley and the skill of the rider. I ride both motorcycles and my Spyder. I found that when my GS SE5 was stock, I would be quicker in the twisties on a bike, due to the Spyder wallowing. After adding aftermarket shocks and swaybar, I am quicker on the Spyder. Others may vary, of course. I would say, if you insist on choosing off the local bikers in the twisties, talk to Elka and Bajaron.


:agree:

:thumbup::clap:

Put a broomstick in the hands of a pro and they'll beat you at a game of pool almost every time.

[Oldmanzues]

I like the Spyder looks. I can afford the Spyder. I like the Spyder ride, so I bought one (two). Obtain what you want/can afford the same way. If you ask me me about the Spyder, I will answer to the best of my ability. If I am interested in your ride, I will ask questions. Never did get in those long ago wars. HD x Indian with that outsider BMW. HD x Royal enfield/Indian x brit bikes. HD x Brit bikes x Hondas and so on. Ride like you what to and have fun. Oldmanzues

[Bob Denman]

every one has an opinion on everything. The real trick is to make them think yours is the better one without turning it into a shouting match.

Tact ; The art of telling somebody to go to Hell, and have them looking forward to thd trip... :thumbup:

[Spyder Monkey]

Wow, good stuff. I like hanging out here, the maturity level is generally a little higher.

Confirmation bias is a good point. We're all here because we all like Spyders (at least I have not seen any deliberate "trolling" by non-enthusiasts).

In addition to the excellent points raised above, the argument could go on forever because "better handling" is such a vague criteria.

If "better handling" is defined as the minimum time around a dry, clean, race track by professional riders on professionally set up machines, I would put money on a two wheeler over a spyder any day. Not only because of the physical differences but simply because you have thousands of skilled engineers, riders, and mechanics and decades of development going toward making the fastest motorcycle lap times possible.

The Spyder is a niche product that has only existed for less than a decade with less support. And the "nanny" engine management system is fundamentally at odds with absolute performance. The nanny is designed to keep you "stable" and will gladly cut power and apply brakes to help you achieve that goal.

If "better handling" is defined as keeping an average rider from impacting the pavement and other vehicles and objects in real world riding conditions (rain, debris, stupid cagers, animals, off-camber roads, etc), then I would bet on the Spyder hands down.

You can apply maximum braking without destabilizing the platform. In a motorcycle, the harder you brake, the less you can steer. Motorcycles have a "traction budget" that you have to allocate between steering and braking.
Hard braking on a motorcycle changes its handling characteristics more drastically. If an obstacle presents itself in mid turn, you have to decide between either aggressive steering or aggressive braking, not both.
Greater contact patch = more traction
The Spyder is much less sensitive to road conditions like gravel or "tar snakes" because its contact points with the road are not in line with the direction of travel. If you have ever ridden a motorcycle on a steel grate bridge in the rain or on a road with deep rain grooves, you will know exactly what I mean. There is not much more unsettling than having your motorcycling "walking" in and out of the rain grooves trying to find a stable path.

[Rockwall]

Ride what makes you comfortable and happy. It's being in the wind that counts.:doorag:

...and whatever makes others happy is good for them. To bad so many out there don't get that.

[NoJive]

Very good points there. One of the things I was taught in the MSF course was if you need to panic brake in a turn, to straighten the bike first. It's a good idea in theory, and in the parking lot it was easy. In reality, if it is a panic stop, I don't think you have time to do anything but brake.

And rain grooves are very nerve wracking on two wheels. I had to drive around 3 miles on a section of road that had just been grooved/graded on the Suzuki I had. Not fun a'tall!




Wow, good stuff. I like hanging out here, the maturity level is generally a little higher.

Confirmation bias is a good point. We're all here because we all like Spyders (at least I have not seen any deliberate "trolling" by non-enthusiasts).

In addition to the excellent points raised above, the argument could go on forever because "better handling" is such a vague criteria.

If "better handling" is defined as the minimum time around a dry, clean, race track by professional riders on professionally set up machines, I would put money on a two wheeler over a spyder any day. Not only because of the physical differences but simply because you have thousands of skilled engineers, riders, and mechanics and decades of development going toward making the fastest motorcycle lap times possible.

The Spyder is a niche product that has only existed for less than a decade with less support. And the "nanny" engine management system is fundamentally at odds with absolute performance. The nanny is designed to keep you "stable" and will gladly cut power and apply brakes to help you achieve that goal.

If "better handling" is defined as keeping an average rider from impacting the pavement and other vehicles and objects in real world riding conditions (rain, debris, stupid cagers, animals, off-camber roads, etc), then I would bet on the Spyder hands down.

You can apply maximum braking without destabilizing the platform. In a motorcycle, the harder you brake, the less you can steer. Motorcycles have a "traction budget" that you have to allocate between steering and braking.
Hard braking on a motorcycle changes its handling characteristics more drastically. If an obstacle presents itself in mid turn, you have to decide between either aggressive steering or aggressive braking, not both.
Greater contact patch = more traction
The Spyder is much less sensitive to road conditions like gravel or "tar snakes" because its contact points with the road are not in line with the direction of travel. If you have ever ridden a motorcycle on a steel grate bridge in the rain or on a road with deep rain grooves, you will know exactly what I mean. There is not much more unsettling than having your motorcycling "walking" in and out of the rain grooves trying to find a stable path.

[ARtraveler]

Sorry, can't stay away from pending controversy. :roflblack:

Totally agree with those that say you can't change the thinking of those who have already made up their minds (?). A lot of times the decision comes without even looking at the pertinent facts.

Everyone can come up with a stack of reasons to justify why their ride (or perceived ride) is the best, and why everyone else is wrong.

Every ride has its pros and cons, and we have pretty much learned to live with the set that accompanies our particular ride(s).

Bob: Keep us posted on that weather for the Fest. :roflblack:

[Motorcycledave]

There are so many types and makes of motorcycles out that answering the
question is tuff, you have to remember there is only one Spyder no matter
if it is an RT,RS,GS,ST it is still the same Spyder with different body work and
doodads there is no way to compare them they are not even close to
being a motorcycle they are in a class of their own... all that said there is no way a
Spyder will ever out handle a motorcycle. A motorcycle is narrower it can split lanes
do enduro, hill climbs, and so much more, there are different bikes for different style
of riding and events. For some people the Spyder is the way to go because of the 3 wheel stance and in some states not needing a motorcycle lic. I do know that for me I like them
both and own both but if I want to get someplace fast I will always take the motorcycle.
everyone have a great time at Spyder Fest
Ride Safe

[Tierhog]

I dont necessarily hand it to the 2 wheelers automatically. Maybe its bias on my part, but those heavy bikes (goldwings and HD tanks) look nice but handled like the titanic. The biggest bike I felt nimble on was a honda ST1300 or FJR. But they are more sporty. I like those two bikes... Torn I guess :rolleyes:

[dave01]

I dont necessarily hand it to the 2 wheelers automatically. Maybe its bias on my part, but those heavy bikes (goldwings and HD tanks) look nice but handled like the titanic. The biggest bike I felt nimble on was a honda ST1300 or FJR. But they are more sporty. I like those two bikes... Torn I guess :rolleyes:

Nope, my Goldwing handles great. Not sporty, but it turns and stops much better than my rt did.

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[Tierhog]

Interesting.. Dont have alot of hours on RTs. Would you rate the goldwings comparable to the RS then? Ive only felt a difference between the FJ, ST, Glydes for comparisons sake. Would like your view as a GW owner... :o

[SXSMachine]

You just cannot compare the two technologies, they are apples and oranges.

Not only do they have different capabilities they provide a different type of experience as well.

The thing is because they do provide different experiences if you prefer one experience over the other take that experience and go with it, why even try to compare them??

So dont be concerned by others who would argue for the sake of arguing and supposedly being "right" when just expressing something that can be no more justified as just a feeling rather than as a factual representation. :thumbup:

[asp125]

Of course, you're talking Spyder vs Harleys. Now if it were Spyder vs sportbike, the tables would be turned in a hurry. But in reality the question would be moot... because of Nanny.

No way can I ride my Spyder in the canyons as fast as I can on my VFR. "Big bird" is just too heavy and wide to flick around corners. Except... on a day where there's sand or rain or reduced traction.. then the Spyder is the preferred ride.

[bikeguy]

This is a question that's almost impossible to answer because it is so dependent on the rider. A Spyder should be quicker through the corners than most cruisers simply because the low ground clearance of the cruiser limits the lean angle which limits cornering speed. But a really good rider just might pass a Spyder with an average rider while the foot boards are throwing sparks all over the road. There's no doubt that a good sportbike with a good rider is faster than anything in the corners and that includes almost any production automobile. The rider makes all the difference. Cotton

[jerpinoy]

I ended the conversations with a question, Are you happy with your bike? Well I am happy with my Spyder lets ride and have fun:yes:. I have a buddy, riding a HD trike and we talked a lot other than what we ride.

[Bob Denman]

:agree: I really like how my RT rides and handles, and my buddy with a Tri-Glide likes his just as much! :2thumbs:
And the weather is Still looking spec-freakin-tacular! :yes::2excited::yes::2excited:

[Tierhog]

Agreed. I just asked for curiosities sake. I seldom have the chance to ride with the GW guys and gals... Just dont know.. :confused:

[SXSMachine]

If you are curious, satisfy it, only the inquiring mind grows... :)

[Jester]

Going to Vegas Monday to spend the week with several of my brothers. Usually have to rent a Harley TriGlide when I am not able to ride my RTS. This time I am told the reserved machine is a Honda Gold Wing Trike and I will get a good chance to compare the three vehicles. I expect to put over a thousand miles on the Wing while ya'll are playing at Spyderfest. Have fun and will give a followup in a week or so.
Main thing is that we all RIDE!:yes: