Owners Event Feedback Request...

[GnA]

Some of you may recall that last year was my first year to help coordinate the Group Rydes at the BRP Owners Event (OE) last year in Durango.
And, I've been asked to help again in that same capacity this year. Of things I've learned over the years is that you cannot please everyone
and rarely does a group ride go off without an issue or two such as:

ride too long
ride too short
ride too fast
ride too slow
ride got separated (sometimes at first light)
didn't know the route
wanted to stop more for pictures
wanted more time at stops
wanted less stops
people not fueled up
the list goes on...

I received a lot of positive feedback in Durango last year, but we would like to try to make this year's rides even better.
If you took part in any of the group rides last year OR went on the group rides at the last Maggie Valley OE, your feedback and suggestions would be appreciated. Feel free to post comments/suggestions here or you can email me directly at George.IRide@gmail.com

I absolutely love riing in the NC/TN area and each time I'm there... I have a difficult time leaving!!!!

I hope to hear from you and also hope to ryde with you in June... if not before! :yes:

[ThreeFeet]

MAPS of the routes make it easy for anybody to do what they want,, at their speed,, and stop when they want for however long they want. If they start out in a group and fall behind or get tired of going too slow or what ever they get out their map and go and do what THEY want!! Two or more leaders in a large group helps keep things together. But really think MAPS handed out at the registration will do wonders for just about anybody. Can't hurt anyway!!!;);)

[NancysToy]

The various route maps for those who did not want to do the group rides were great, but I didn't discover them until the last day. Do them again, but include them in the registration packets.

[Papa]

I agree. gpx files beforehand would be awesome.





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[harrypottar]

I can certainly understand your frustration, I'm not a huge group ride fan as normally there to large to keep intact and will get split by an impatient or young driver. The ones I have been on, the riders are unsure if they should stop at stop signs or keep going with the flow, lots of rubber banding etc.

I wouldn't even know where start, but I would think smaller group rides, for example, group A does ride A, group B does ride B, later group A does ride B, group B does ride A so on and so fourth. This way you get to go on all the rides just not at the same time.

Personally I have never been to Maggie Valley, so I want to see and do it ALL :yes:... Now I know that's no possible, however as a seasoned rider who can Handel the twisties I would like to take a few scenic touring rides. Medium speed enjoy the sights, sounds and smells, stop and take some pictures etc. Would like to do deals gap, like to ride it few times first time medium slow to see what's all the talk is about then faster run if you know what I mean.

As a seasoned rider I don't mind going with a bunch of newbies, ride at the rear make sure some smart a** on their cell phone doesn't push anyone. I have GPS and CB which helps if we end up with any stragglers.

harry

[PrairieSpyder]

The various route maps for those who did not want to do the group rides were great, but I didn't discover them until the last day. Do them again, but include them in the registration packets.

:agree: I'm planning on going earlier to visit friends and do some sightseeing in the area. So having the route maps out before the event would be great, so I could save riding them until I can go in the group, and still go to the places the official rides won't touch.

[GnA]

I can certainly understand your frustration, I'm not a huge group ride fan as normally there to large to keep intact and will get split by an impatient or young driver. The ones I have been on, the riders are unsure if they should stop at stop signs or keep going with the flow, lots of rubber banding etc.

I wouldn't even know where start, but I would think smaller group rides, for example, group A does ride A, group B does ride B, later group A does ride B, group B does ride A so on and so fourth. This way you get to go on all the rides just not at the same time.

Personally I have never been to Maggie Valley, so I want to see and do it ALL :yes:... Now I know that's no possible, however as a seasoned rider who can Handel the twisties I would like to take a few scenic touring rides. Medium speed enjoy the sights, sounds and smells, stop and take some pictures etc. Would like to do deals gap, like to ride it few times first time medium slow to see what's all the talk is about then faster run if you know what I mean.

As a seasoned rider I don't mind going with a bunch of newbies, ride at the rear make sure some smart a** on their cell phone doesn't push anyone. I have GPS and CB which helps if we end up with any stragglers.

harry

Not frustrated at all... we just want to make the rides better and we all know that group rides can have negatives as well as the positives.

I thought BRP did a great job with the ride descriptions that we put together and agree that with better planning this year we can try to get them into the registration packets or at least some announcements to ensure everyone knows where to pick them up.

I'm not sure about publishing them before hand, but maybe a "sneak preview" of the ride descriptions or google maps can be pushed out.

We had hoped to have more volunteer "Ryde Guides" last year to have smaller groups or some mixed every 15 bikes or so, but our recruitment effort got off to a late start - a few people from the Durango area were a BIG help. So we will start asking earlier for people who might like to help out.

This is great... please keep the discussion flowing!

Thanks,

G

[MouthPiece]

I'm not much into group rides either. I would suggest providing maps of several different ride/routes that offer up different interests, i.e., twisties for some, waterfalls for others, parks, ect.

Provide these maps when we get to Maggie Valley and allow people to choose what type route they want to take, with whom they want to take, how long they want to ride, and where their particular little group want to stop.

Several of us had a wonderful time running down to Franklin, North Carolina and going over to Brevard, North Carolina. There were several waterfalls that we were able to see. We then went from Brevard up to Waynesville and saw more waterfalls. I might add that the ride from Franklin to Brevard had several twisties in it as well.

By providing maps it allows personal choice and I do believe in personal choice. JMHO

Chris

[SpyderAnn01]

I'm not much into group rides either. I would suggest providing maps of several different ride/routes that offer up different interests, i.e., twisties for some, waterfalls for others, parks, ect.

Provide these maps when we get to Maggie Valley and allow people to choose what type route they want to take, with whom they want to take, how long they want to ride, and where their particular little group want to stop.

Several of us had a wonderful time running down to Franklin, North Carolina and going over to Brevard, North Carolina. There were several waterfalls that we were able to see. We then went from Brevard up to Waynesville and saw more waterfalls. I might add that the ride from Franklin to Brevard had several twisties in it as well.

By providing maps it allows personal choice and I do believe in personal choice. JMHO

Chris

Last trip to Maggie Valley we saw a few new waterfalls that popped up during the storms! :roflblack:

The group ride on went on in Durango last year was well run. It worked out well having the group led to Mesa Verde and then we were on our own to explore as little or as much as we wanted and we returned to Durango at our own pace. Worked out great for me.

[bruiser]

Harry, you may want to ride highway 209, known as "The Rattler". Great ride, starts about 15 minutes out of Maggie Valley, runs from Fines Creek to Hot Springs. 290 curves in 24 miles and scenic overlooks and pull offs. And there is a Blue Ridge Parkway entrance about a mile out of Maggie Valley.

Last BBQ we all were going to ride to the Snake then on to the Dragon. Unfortunately several of us got seperated from the main group due to a few slow riders who seemed unsure of the twisties. We lost the main group and had to form up on our own. We managed to get to the Dragon late afternoon and didn't get back to the motel until after 10:00. My advice, if you can't keep up, don't do the ride. I mean no offense to anyone. We were all there at one time or another. Guess what I'm trying to say is have a few rides for those with limited experience. I apologize to anyone who takes offense to this.

[SDM]

At the last OE in Maggie, included in the hand out from BRP, was a map - 12 Classic Deals Gap Motorcycle Rides from America Rides Maps. Water and tear resistant version. Still have mine. They might be doing this again this year if someone puts a :ani29: (bug!!!) in their ear.:spyder:

[GnA]

Harry, you may want to ride highway 209, known as "The Rattler". Great ride, starts about 15 minutes out of Maggie Valley, runs from Fines Creek to Hot Springs. 290 curves in 24 miles and scenic overlooks and pull offs. And there is a Blue Ridge Parkway entrance about a mile out of Maggie Valley.

Last BBQ we all were going to ride to the Snake then on to the Dragon. Unfortunately several of us got seperated from the main group due to a few slow riders who seemed unsure of the twisties. We lost the main group and had to form up on our own. We managed to get to the Dragon late afternoon and didn't get back to the motel until after 10:00. My advice, if you can't keep up, don't do the ride. I mean no offense to anyone. We were all there at one time or another. Guess what I'm trying to say is have a few rides for those with limited experience. I apologize to anyone who takes offense to this.

............................

Bruiser makes a very good point - I like to call this "riding" with "dis" similar style riders and the affect on a mixed-style group ride.

In the ideal situation - a group ride could be divided into 3 basic style groups (and riders should choose to ride in the group that fits "their own" comfort level. It's usually not the route (amount of twisties, sweepers or "runaways" that’s what I call straight-aways) it usually the comfort speed level of the riders. Believe it or not... not everyone enjoysriding at full throttle in every gear.

I like to call these styles "Energetic-Riders""Flex-Riders" and "Easy-Riders". Mind you this does not qualify riders into "talent" or "skill" level, it's more of a natural or acquired mindset or perception level of "speed" as it may relate to enjoyment or "Ride Quality".

My short definitions of these three types are:

Easy-Riders - Usually lets others ride in front because they know there may be "full-throttle" riders in the group and wants to stay out of their way (hoping they have really good braking skills) but sometimes gets right up in the front part of the group because he/she doesn'tknow where the ride is going and doesn't want to be left behind. The Easy-Rider enjoys the pace at the posted maximum speed limit and even 5 or so MPH under... (Where is the law that says you always have to ride at the maximum limit, anyway???) The Easy-Rider wants to actually read the"City Population/Elevation/Information" signs on the road and enjoys visiting the places and scenic opportunities a ride has to offer. She/he usually enjoys shopping for more than just horsepower and actually tasting the food they ordered at the lunch stop. She/he dances to the beat of Frank Sinatra, AirSupply and sometimes Barry Manalowe.

Energeticidal-Riders - Usually Like to be in the front part of the group (would pass the group leader if he/she knew where the next stop is but doesn't to preserve peace in the group) or so far in back and enjoys the 2 minutes at full-throttle it takes to catch the group due the"Accordion Effect". The Energeticidal-Rider has that "NEED FORSpeed" enjoys the ride the higher pace of a ride and would be first to volunteer for a ride into outer space. She/he generally dances to the combined beats of 2 or 3 drummers without missing a step and enjoys listening to Boston and Led Zepplin at full volume with or without ear buds.

Flex-Riders - Usually can go either way (or even both ways on the same ride).... ummm with regard to "riding." Flex-Ridersare usually comfortable riding with either other group and can enjoy the ride at any pace. She/he enjoys the machine, the road and the stops along the ride. He/she can gobble down the burger at the short lunch stop if needed, but really knows how to enjoy every lick of the ice-cream cone or puff on the cigar when the timing is right. The Flex-Rider can enjoy dancing with the Easy-Riders and has every note and lyric of "Free bird" memorized ready to enjoy singing with the Energeticidal-Riders at 1:00am when everyone else is sleeping.

So in a "Mixed Group Ride" I'm thinking that for both the Easy Riders and Energeticidal Riders to get the most "enjoyment"out of a "Mixed Group Ride" is for both to try to be a little more like the Flex-Riders.

That way we can all ENJOY the RIDE!

Disclaimer: I wrote this as a lighter way to look at the differences between riders in group rides and not intended to offend anyone...
More on the "Accordion Effect" and the "Pace" later.

[Cavman]

Www.Motorcycleroads.us is a good site to check out what out there.

Www.cherohala.com (http://Www.cherohala.com) is another site that points out the roads in the area.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

,.,.,.,.,,.,.

[harrypottar]

My .03 cents....if everyone could just be honest about their abilities the rides would go much smoother. ...However there are always people who for whatever reason will not admit to themselves or anyelse that they are in over their heads and will then sign up for advanced ( read higher speed ) rides and then cause problems because they can't keep up......This is not meant to hurt anyone's feelings, but hopefully people will honestly assess their abilities before going out on any group rides......Thankyou Mike :thumbup:


:agree:, however it's hard to judge some times, been riding over 35 years both here and in Europe. I have great road sense that comes from experience and consider myself seasoned skilled rider.

Again with the however, put me next to Doc or Lamonster, when I see some of their rides posted I feel I like I'm a newbie. I've ridding some great twisties in Europe and again feel confident in my skill level, but when I watch people like yellow wolf on Deals Gap not sure where I would put myself. Some thing like Deals Gap I would want to ride it first before I put myself in a group. Wouldn't want to slow Lamont down and wouldn't want to be slowed down which is why I want to be able to ride it a few times.

In my youth I've slane many dragon's but I've studded them all first, with Deals Gap like to be in a first time group, one that runs at a medium pace to get a feel for the road. Then I would know which group to ride in, still couldn't keep up with Lamont from what I hear from teddy.

:yes:
harry

Worth stating although I'm sure it's true for most I ride a lot slower two up, nothing to do with weight all about kidney punches....

[GnA]

:agree:, however it's hard to judge some times, been riding over 35 years both here and in Europe. I have great road sense that comes from experience and consider myself seasoned skilled rider.

Again with the however, put me next to Doc or Lamonster, when I see some of their rides posted I feel I like I'm a newbie. I've ridding some great twisties in Europe and again feel confident in my skill level, but when I watch people like yellow wolf on Deals Gap not sure where I would put myself. Some thing like Deals Gap I would want to ride it first before I put myself in a group. Wouldn't want to slow Lamont down and wouldn't want to be slowed down which is why I want to be able to ride it a few times.

In my youth I've slane many dragon's but I've studded them all first, with Deals Gap like to be in a first time group, one that runs at a medium pace to get a feel for the road. Then I would know which group to ride in, still couldn't keep up with Lamont from what I hear from teddy.

:yes:
harry

Worth stating although I'm sure it's true for most I ride a lot slower two up, nothing to do with weight all about kidney punches....

Hey HP - I understand exactly what you are saying...

The nice thing about Deal's Gap (Tail of the Dragon) is that there is an area at each end of the 11 mile stretch where riders gather and ride back and forth at their own pace or in small groups. If a large group were to try to ryde the Dragon "fast" without a lot of practice together... The probability of it turning into "Group Crash" would surely be increased.

That, my friend, is not our goal.

Being a Can Am event... Safety will be a high priority!:thumbup:

[DocRags]

The various route maps for those who did not want to do the group rides were great, but I didn't discover them until the last day. Do them again, but include them in the registration packets. :agree::agree: I totally agree with Scotty...although I would have to say I saw the maps way before the last day! Guess it goes back to the old "I pick up anything I see" approach! :yes: GPS coordinates for stops along the way would be nice, too. (don't remember whether they were on there).

[bruiser]

Harry, 10-4 on the kidney punches.

One thing to remember, Deals Gap has a 30mph speed limit and LEO enforces it. But, there are those that don't pay attention to that. If you see a rider tapping the top of his helmet, then be ready for the radar ahead.

[scooterexpress]

my reccomendation is just put out detailed maps and let the people decide who they want to ride with and or form a sm group with there friends and then they can go at it at there pace and no one elses.they can stop when they want to stop go slow or fast.being that i have been in lg and sm group rides overall i would perfer a very sm group 2-3 this way i can enjoy the ride better. the one thing that bugs me about lg group is its hard to make a sudden stop when you see something of interest and want pics i think thats the biggest problem of all,and another thing is when you stop for food/fuel going to take longer leaving less time for scenery viewing/picture stops,not ev1 likes what you like when it comes to pics taking or stopping to look at something.i didn't go on any planned rydes in durango just due to the fact this was new scenery and we wanted to enjoy at our pace and stop when we wanted and ate where we wanted. i've got nothing against riding in a group but i feel a lg group ryde should be just for a parade or show off ryde or riding for a cause.

[Daisyjoe]

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I could have overlooked the post. The Foothills Pkwy would be a great ride. It is in close proximity to the Dragon. Great views with good twisties!!

[bhfromme]

Not to be a buzzkill but here's something to remember while riding the Dragon - or anywhere for that matter.

Experience is something you get after you need it.

Bill

[viiiball]

George:

Like most others here I think publishing the ride routes is a great idea so if folks want to explore on their own they can. But I also think some organized group rides are definitely needed, especially at an owners event. There may be may folks coming that do not have a group of friends yet to ride with.

I have organized several group rides and we always plan for the lowest common denominator (sorry you speed freaks). We want everyone to have a safe and enjoyable ride so you take easy and ride "normal" (by that I mean within the speed limits and within road conditions). I would keep them around 3-3.5 hours of riding time which could be 4-5 hours clock time depending on stops and eats. And depending on road type this could be from 100-150 miles.

For those coming in from out of town and have never ridden in this area before I would suggest a group ride to and through the Dragon. You could run it one direction, rest and then run it back the other way. Its very different in each direction. Or you could ride to it then loop back through Gatlinburg. Try to skip Pigeon Forge if at all possible as the traffic is a nightmare. Even for beginners the Dragon is not all that difficult if folks ride within their means. My wife did it as a pure beginner and had no issues. Was hardly even nervous. The Spyder was made for the Dragon. She can ride it better and faster than I can on my Harley bagger.

The other ride I would suggest is the Cherohola Skyway. Beautiful vistas and a lot more leisurely ride than the Dragon. On a lovel sunny 75 degree day there is not much better riding than this one.

Others have mentioned the Snake. While a good ride, getting there is 2+ hours so that could be a long day for an organized group ride.

Just my 2 cents.

[GnA]

George:

Like most others here I think publishing the ride routes is a great idea so if folks want to explore on their own they can. But I also think some organized group rides are definitely needed, especially at an owners event. There may be may folks coming that do not have a group of friends yet to ride with.

I have organized several group rides and we always plan for the lowest common denominator (sorry you speed freaks). We want everyone to have a safe and enjoyable ride so you take easy and ride "normal" (by that I mean within the speed limits and within road conditions). I would keep them around 3-3.5 hours of riding time which could be 4-5 hours clock time depending on stops and eats. And depending on road type this could be from 100-150 miles.

For those coming in from out of town and have never ridden in this area before I would suggest a group ride to and through the Dragon. You could run it one direction, rest and then run it back the other way. Its very different in each direction. Or you could ride to it then loop back through Gatlinburg. Try to skip Pigeon Forge if at all possible as the traffic is a nightmare. Even for beginners the Dragon is not all that difficult if folks ride within their means. My wife did it as a pure beginner and had no issues. Was hardly even nervous. The Spyder was made for the Dragon. She can ride it better and faster than I can on my Harley bagger.

The other ride I would suggest is the Cherohola Skyway. Beautiful vistas and a lot more leisurely ride than the Dragon. On a lovel sunny 75 degree day there is not much better riding than this one.

Others have mentioned the Snake. While a good ride, getting there is 2+ hours so that could be a long day for an organized group ride.

Just my 2 cents.


viiiball -your 2 cents is worth it's weight in gold!!! I've ridden the area 5 or 6 times and try to make it back there at least every other year. I love all the rides in area so whittling it down to 3-4 group rides will be a challenge. The size of the groups we can have is directly related to the number of "volunteer" ryde guides we can recruit. We'll be putting together the "2013 Ryde Guide Volunteer Crew" soon. I hope we get several experienced ryders to help with the guided rides this year.

You are correct... the people who really need the speed will have to be flexible or perhaps as others have suggested, form smaller groups of their own and ride the way they like. After all... a group ride is all about the group you are riding with!!! :thumbup: