STS shock question

[weapon]

Does anyone know if you can put the 2013 RS Fox shocks on a STS?
I think they still have preload adjusters.

[Bob Denman]

I believe the they share front suspension systems; my guess would be, "Yes!" :thumbup:
But some more research is definitely in order...:shocked:

[Ga Blue Knight]

You really have to wonder why the STS would not come with shock preload adjusters in light of all of the alignment issues. There's got to be some kind of back story here I'd bet!

[DrewNJ]

I was curious about that too...
Is it just me or do the 2013's seem "mushy"?... That was the very first thing I noticed when I sat on the 2013 ST's and RT's at the dealer.
Are they supposed to feel "fluffier"?

[capt.jim]

I have the alignment problem with mine and the factory ST shocks made the problem all the worse. While trying to correct the side to side wandering it would create such a sway to where I would have to get on the brakes. The 2010 RT front shocks made a LOT of difference, it still wanders but doesn't wallow around while trying to keep a straight line. I think the Fox shocks would be great. The rear shock seems as firm as the RT front shocks are, too bad there is no adjustment. My dealer still hasn't heard a thing about the alignment issue.

[kubie]

[QUOTE=capt.jim;578982]I have the alignment problem with mine and the factory ST shocks made the problem all the worse. While trying to correct the side to side wandering it would create such a sway to where I would have to get on the brakes. The 2010 RT front shocks made a LOT of difference, it still wanders but doesn't wallow around while trying to keep a straight line. I think the Fox shocks would be great. The rear shock seems as firm as the RT front shocks are, too bad there is no adjustment. My dealer still hasn't heard a thing about the alignment issue.[/QUOT

Cpt. Jim:
I wish you lived closer to Sebastian FL. Id take you to my dealer they did my front end alignment and it made my STS feel like a new bike! I still have the mushy Shocks and wondered about the fox shocks also. I had them on my RSS and that thing ran down the road in a high wind and never swayed at all! if I had the Fox Shocks on My STS it would be Heaven!
and if your dealer hasn't heard about the new alignment they are not calling tec support or looking at their service bulletins I would look for some other dealership because BRP bent over backward to help my dealer with mine!

[flamingobabe]

what is the difference between Fox and Elkas? I have not got my ST-Limited yet..should be in a week or so...do I need to just add new shocks before I leave Pitbull

[sergentwoody]

http://store.spyder.brp.com/product/631121/219400409/_/FOX_Adjustable_Shock_Kit_with_Sway_Bar
Fully adjustable gas-charged front FOX Podium 5.7" (145 mm) front racing shocks
Kit complete with a high performance sway bar
Standard on Spyder 2013 RS-S packag

[capt.jim]

what is the difference between Fox and Elkas? I have not got my ST-Limited yet..should be in a week or so...do I need to just add new shocks before I leave Pitbull
I would just ride it for a while first and see how you like the factory shocks, I'm sure those guys have checked the alignment already. The fox shocks and the sway bar package are a really good deal it seems, especially coming from BRP.

[ThreeWheels]

what is the difference between Fox and Elkas? I have not got my ST-Limited yet..should be in a week or so...do I need to just add new shocks before I leave Pitbull

Didn't you guys all pull some long rides testing the pre-production models ?
Bad alignments and mushy front ends would have been obvious.
I wonder what changes were made to the design that cause these new issues.
The alignment can be explained by a poor set up on the factory floor, but that should be easily fixed in the shop.
The mushiness..........I'm not sure what would cause that unless the preproduction bikes had a different set up.

Just wondering.................

[DrewNJ]

I bet a set of 2012 RT shocks would firm up the front of the ST nicely....

[flamingobabe]

Didn't you guys all pull some long rides testing the pre-production models ?
Bad alignments and mushy front ends would have been obvious.
I wonder what changes were made to the design that cause these new issues.
The alignment can be explained by a poor set up on the factory floor, but that should be easily fixed in the shop.
The mushiness..........I'm not sure what would cause that unless the preproduction bikes had a different set up.

Just wondering.................

The ST's that we rode were not production bikes...

[Bob Denman]

:agree: I was told that it was actually a hand-built prototype worth perhaps a quarter of a million dollars... http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_1.gif

[spyderriderman]

[QUOTE=capt.jim;579369]I would just ride it for a while first and see how you like the factory shocks, I'm sure those guys have checked the alignment already. The fox shocks and the sway bar package are a really good deal it seems, especially coming from BRP.
Capt JIM spyderriderman here, will my smoothspyder off my 09 rs fit my new st limited? I'm tradeing my 09 in, pulled ELKA shocks off and put my old ones back on hoping they will fit the st. Will be about a week befor my new one get here, I road it about 15 miles on testing it and it did wonder a bit. Should I ask them to check the alinement?

[mjw930]

Just to make it perfectly clear, old shocks of ANY previous year Spyder of any model designation WILL NOT work correctly on a new ST or RT. They may bolt up but the length will be wrong. The new suspension design is very sensitive to loaded ride height, your alignment will be wrong and the bike will not handle correctly. I got this directly from 3 sources, 2 at BRP and one who is quite well respected here but will remain nameless.

The new suspension sets toe in at loaded ride height, not static ride height. The new alignment procedures include the use of a package being sent to all dealers that replaces the shocks with struts putting the Spyder at the designed ride height for alignment. If the spyder is riding lower than that height you will get more toe out and it will wander at speed. If it's riding higher you will get more toe in which will cause understeer or a front end push in the corners.

Like many have said here, ride it for a while before you make any rash decisions on replacing parts. I test rode a couple ST's this last week and neither felt mushy or wandered. In fact, compared to my wife's GS which has the aftermarket sway bar and the shocks cranked all the way up it felt remarkably more stable at highway speeds and cornered flatter than her modified GS. I can only imagine the $399 Fox shock and sway bar upgrade will make it better. Odds are THAT package will be the ticket for those hotshoes out there wanting a little something extra on their ST's.

[Bob Denman]

Those Fox shocks should then bolt up and work okay, as long as your preload settings don't monkey-up the ride height...
No wonder they took that adjustment out of the equation! :gaah:
Ride it; and wait for Ron to come up with the proper bar for it! :thumbup:

[mjw930]

Those Fox shocks should then bolt up and work okay, as long as your preload settings don't monkey-up the ride height...
No wonder they took that adjustment out of the equation! :gaah:
Ride it; and wait for Ron to come up with the proper bar for it! :thumbup:

Somehow the thread got off track. The OP asked about the 2013 RS Fox shocks and if you look at the new parts book you'll see the ONLY Fox shocks specified for the RS are also specified for the ST and they now come with an updated sway bar. For $399 MSRP this sounds like a killer deal. No offense to Ron but the kit includes the "proper" bar for the package.

Part number 219400409 is the correct FOX part for BOTH the RS and ST. These parts come standard on the RS-S. http://store.spyder.brp.com/product/631121/219400409/_/FOX_Adjustable_Shock_Kit_with_Sway_Bar

[Bob Denman]

Oh; I agree with you; just be aware of the ride height issues that could crop up! :thumbup:

[ElZorroRides]

Just to make it perfectly clear, old shocks of ANY previous year Spyder of any model designation WILL NOT work correctly on a new ST or RT. They may bolt up but the length will be wrong. The new suspension design is very sensitive to loaded ride height, your alignment will be wrong and the bike will not handle correctly. I got this directly from 3 sources, 2 at BRP and one who is quite well respected here but will remain nameless.

The new suspension sets toe in at loaded ride height, not static ride height. The new alignment procedures include the use of a package being sent to all dealers that replaces the shocks with struts putting the Spyder at the designed ride height for alignment. If the spyder is riding lower than that height you will get more toe out and it will wander at speed. If it's riding higher you will get more toe in which will cause understeer or a front end push in the corners.

Like many have said here, ride it for a while before you make any rash decisions on replacing parts. I test rode a couple ST's this last week and neither felt mushy or wandered. In fact, compared to my wife's GS which has the aftermarket sway bar and the shocks cranked all the way up it felt remarkably more stable at highway speeds and cornered flatter than her modified GS. I can only imagine the $399 Fox shock and sway bar upgrade will make it better. Odds are THAT package will be the ticket for those hotshoes out there wanting a little something extra on their ST's.


Just adding that while at the BRP venue in Daytona on Friday, one of the reps said exactly what was said here. Those wishing to make these changes should only do so with the 2013 package. Having just picked up my ST and riding it 300+ miles that day, I found it tracked great with little sway and only due to the high winds at times and not due to any suspension issue that I noticed. The dealer had already corrected the ball joints and alignment issue before I ever took delivery.

[weapon]

Ok.
Here's my counterpoint and why I asked about the shocks.
If you have two people. One is 250 lbs. and another is 100 lbs. they will not have the same ride height. So they will experience different toe settings.
Is this not what the adjusters are really for?
If you know what the desired ride height was you could set it and be in uptimum performance.

[mjw930]

Ok.
Here's my counterpoint and why I asked about the shocks.
If you have two people. One is 250 lbs. and another is 100 lbs. they will not have the same ride height. So they will experience different toe settings.
Is this not what the adjusters are really for?
If you know what the desired ride height was you could set it and be in uptimum performance.

I tend to agree and I can't find the specific thread but I recall someone saying the geometry and spring settings on the new products were set up so maximum sag is determined by maximum vehicle weight and the struts they supply for alignment simulate that ride height. This keeps the toe at a negative setting throughout the ride height from unloaded to max load.

The alignment issue came about by setting the toe to the factory spec at zero deflection, i.e. only the bike's load causing sag, not the added sag you get when riders and luggage are added. That caused the setting to go to toe out as the suspension compresses.

So, extrapolating that out it is obvious that a lighter rider will have more toe in than a heavier rider with no rider experiences toe out which is a major contributor to wandering at speed. So, technically a lighter rider MIGHT have a slight push situation near the cornering limit than a heavier rider. I'm pretty sure most riders would never notice the slight push while a lot of riders would notice the wander hence the settings and new alignment procedure.

Based on this I would also assume the instructions on the Fox shock upgrade will include how to determine the proper spring seat adjustment so your ride height is optimized. From the pictures the bottom spring seat is threaded so you have infinite adjustment within a certain range but it's not known by us what effect that will have on the ride height.