Anyone having problems with alignment on the new 2013 ST's ???

[Zenagirl]

I read a post by Kungfuspyder that he was having issues with realignment, and that the owner at his dealership discovered that most of the new 2013 ST's were out of alignment and needed to be realigned. I am waiting for my new and first Spyder. I bought the 2013 ST-L Black Current from the dealer in Enumclaw, Washington. As I want to avoid any potential problems, I sent an email to the dealer advising what I had read on Spyderlovers.com. I asked if they could be sure to check the alignment on my bike when they build it.
I received an email back from the main sales manager advising me that he thought they normally checked the alignment but would double check mine for me.
Today I get an email from the salesman who sold me the bike and he says that BRP has advised him that alignment in NOT a problem in the new 2013 Sts. The saleman said that if they check the bike and find out that the alignment is fine, then they will charge me for 3 1/2 hours of labor to perform the check. I personally am not happy with this, as I feel they should really be making an effort to make sure the bike is safe to ride. And after reading the descriptions by Kungfuspyder and Howard1941 or how their bikes were riding when they were out of alignment really makes me nervous.
The salesman says I can just return the bike if I find out it is out of alignment. (As this is my first one, how would I know if it is out of alignment or that I am causing it to ride that way?)
Any advise from anyone??? He says my bike will be ready this weekend. :gaah:
Thanks so much!

[Blue Star]

I read a post by Kungfuspyder that he was having issues with realignment, and that the owner at his dealership discovered that most of the new 2013 ST's were out of alignment and needed to be realigned. I am waiting for my new and first Spyder. I bought the 2013 ST-L Black Current from the dealer in Enumclaw, Washington. As I want to avoid any potential problems, I sent an email to the dealer advising what I had read on Spyderlovers.com. I asked if they could be sure to check the alignment on my bike when they build it.
I received an email back from the main sales manager advising me that he thought they normally checked the alignment but would double check mine for me.
Today I get an email from the salesman who sold me the bike and he says that BRP has advised him that alignment in NOT a problem in the new 2013 Sts. The saleman said that if they check the bike and find out that the alignment is fine, then they will charge me for 3 1/2 hours of labor to perform the check. I personally am not happy with this, as I feel they should really be making an effort to make sure the bike is safe to ride. And after reading the descriptions by Kungfuspyder and Howard1941 or how their bikes were riding when they were out of alignment really makes me nervous.
The salesman says I can just return the bike if I find out it is out of alignment. (As this is my first one, how would I know if it is out of alignment or that I am causing it to ride that way?)
Any advise from anyone??? He says my bike will be ready this weekend. :gaah:
Thanks so much!

First, :congrats: on your future new ST, and :welcome: . Second, it is not good to post the same question (message) on two different threads, as it gets confusing (or one deleted). Third, I would ask the dealership if they did or will do a test drive during the delivery inspection before taking possession of the bike, or if you know someone that rides a spyder if they can do it for you. Fourth, I assume you have put money down on the bike, and cannot cancel the deal. So you might want to check into another dealer if this is how they are willing to help you before you even take possession of the bike.

[ThreeWheels]

You will know if the bike is out of alignment because it will feel like it is wandering across the road.

On a calm day, with little or no traffic, when you are at speed it will feel as though you were being blown about by a wind.
Almost like you were directly behind a large truck.

DAMHIKT.

I thought alignment problems from the factory were corrected after the 2010 model, but I could be wrong.

3 1/2 hours seems excessive to align a brand new bike as it comes out of the crate.
An existing bike has to have the front wheels and frunk removed.
On something out of the crate, the wheels and frunk aren't installed yet, and putting them on should be part of the build.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Zenagirl]

First, :congrats: on your future new ST, and :welcome: . Second, it is not good to post the same question (message) on two different threads, as it gets confusing (or one deleted). Third, I would ask the dealership if they did or will do a test drive during the delivery inspection before taking possession of the bike, or if you know someone that rides a spyder if they can do it for you. Fourth, I assume you have put money down on the bike, and cannot cancel the deal. So you might want to check into another dealer if this is how they are willing to help you before you even take possession of the bike.

Okay, don't know if I am doing this right. But thanks for the advise! Won't post on 2 threads :opps::opps: next time. I will ask them to do a test drive, don't know anyone who rides a spyder yet, so will have to trust them. And yup, put the money down. Wish I'd checked with another dealer, but hindsight....

[Zenagirl]

You will know if the bike is out of alignment because it will feel like it is wandering across the road.

On a calm day, with little or no traffic, when you are at speed it will feel as though you were being blown about by a wind.
Almost like you were directly behind a large truck.

DAMHIKT.

I thought alignment problems from the factory were corrected after the 2010 model, but I could be wrong.

3 1/2 hours seems excessive to align a brand new bike as it comes out of the crate.
An existing bike has to have the front wheels and frunk removed.
On something out of the crate, the wheels and frunk aren't installed yet, and putting them on should be part of the build.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.




Kungfuspyder had posted he had problems and so did someone else, so I wanted to be sure I didn't. Thanks much for your input and advise. I will take it to heart and also ask why they need to charge 3 1/2 hours labor if they have to put it together. Thanks again! ;)

[ARtraveler]

:welcome: Sorry to hear of your problems. I believe that the dealer mentioned here is a SL sponser and I am very surprised at the potential runaround from the salesman.

My suggestion is to talk with the owner--not the sales help, IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. A correct build is part of the sales and delivery of the bike and they should not be charging anything to correct an error (alignment) IF THAT IS INDEED THE CASE. The :ani29: is supposed to leave the shop in perfect condition for the new owner. Did the sales person "really" talk with BRP? That's hearsay in my opinion.

They ought to be going out of their way to solve any problems or answer your questions. I also note that you purchased the most expensive model.

Please let us know how this progresses. I am guessing its all going to work out.

[NancysToy]

Checking the alignment on a Spyder is not a quick and dirty thing. It can take almost as much time as the entire preparation process. There is nothing to be gained by doing it during prep, except for taking the wheels off one more time. It is not surprising that a dealer would not want to double his normal prep time without compensation. Many dealers aren't even equipped to do an alignment, anyway.

Get the machine, ride it unless it is dangerous (which would probably be more than an alignment problem anyway), get used to the handling, then have any problems addressed at the 600 mile service if necessary. JMHO

[wildtexasrangr]

I cant speak for anyone else & yes I'm new here too. I have not had any problems with my ST limited (white) that I can tell so far.Ive noticed that the tires look to be aligned okay but that's looking at it with a level and a tape.Plus on a flat surface with a dirty road the tires have the same pattern not cleaner on 1 side or the other.( just right )The only real noticeable thing that is the belt vibration every now and then & the high beams needed to be adjusted down some.( don't hunt coons off my bike ):roflblack: At my dealer they had the check off list ,yours should have the same.Ask for it and go over it again with the person that set up your bike. I now have 550 miles on my bike and it was born on 12-20-12.
I just received my back rest last night for the passenger :yes: that will go on today.( for you new people ,like me ) if you get this its a 3 piece deal so make sure your dealer orders all 3 pieces not just the back rest.

Next will be the bump skid plate ( A MUST ) from Syderpops

Then a belt tensioner ( ANOTHER MUST ) from Smoothspyder

I really love this ST model its a great bike I'm sure you will love it too Zenagirl good luck with yours and I hope this helps.

[BikerDoc]

I have ridden RTs for 3 years now but when i test rode the ST (for 2.5 hrs) I had extreme difficulty with the so called "floating issue".
With the change in suspension, tire size, etc the ST steering is highly highly sensitive, much more so than the RS and RSS s that I have ridden. I finally had to steer just using my fingers not palm on the the handgrips to handle it "light ' enough to not get the floating sensation.. It took me that full riding period to get the hand of the new and very different ride.. I don't think anything was wrong with the bike because the longer i rode it the more stable it became..

[Tazzel]

The Spyder will feel very strange at first. The front end will drift if the front shocks are not set at the highest setting. Make sure its not the shocks before messing with the alienment.

[weapon]

There is no setting on the front shocks for 2013.:banghead:

[JKMSPYDER]

I have owned my ST-S for over 3 weeks now. I have over 400 miles on it. Since this was my first Spyder, I didn't have anything to compare it to. When I first drove it, I thought something was wrong with the steering or alignment. It felt like it was wandering in the road. The more miles I drove it, the more I realized that I was the problem, not the Spyder. I was giving it the "death grip" and over controlling. The more I relaxed my grip, the smoother it handled. I think it has to do with the stiffer suspension vs earlier models. I would suggest putting several hundred miles on it before you draw any conclusions. You may find that the "alignment problem" has more to do with how the Spyder is driven than the vehicle itself. Hope this helps, and welcome to the Spyder community.

[capt.jim]

I didn't want to say anything negative yet about the steering and burst anyone's bubble, as I know there are many waiting for their new ST. I now have 500+ miles on my ST and mine felt like it was hunting for a straight line at anything under 40, almost like when my DPS went out long ago, like it had a mind of its own. At 70 it was very floaty and sensitive, almost scary, steering felt like the tires had 50 Lbs, but only 17. The lead mechanic test drove it before I picked it up and he said, man!, that new steering is touchy. 2010 RT front shocks made a world of difference at highway speeds, tracks true and flat for the most part now, feels 100% better. At 30 MPH it still hunts some, but nothing like before, it would drift to the right and when I steered to the left slightly, nothing, then it would go left suddenly and I would have to go the other way. I wondered about the alignment, but thought surely by this time they have got that figured out, I thought it must be me and I will adjust eventually, now I'm not so sure. The steering does feel much quicker and doesn't seem to understeer or plow as much, I like that. Not to bash BRP, because their product has changed my life, I have that smile that I had 30 years ago when I rode my ATC, but I can't for the life of me understand why they would put such soft shocks on there with no adjustment. It would lean just getting on and just the weight of the spyder itself compressed them more than 1". Hang on to those old RT shocks, they will make a big difference. The headlights and the 60 watt bulbs are a vast improvement over the projector style lamps, no bouncing lights anymore. The twin piston Brembos are fantastic, and quiet! Those pulling a trailer will appreciate them all the more. The motor temperature doesn't seem to vary a whole lot and the fan really puts out a lot more air at more of a right angle than my GS, didn't notice any heat there. I have the pipes wrapped and heat shield material on the inside of the panels on my GS. I will do this soon, as my wife and I both noticed a considerable amount of heat on the left side, from the knee down, seems to be blowing out from under the top panel. The static belt tension was 220 lbs. on the ground with the kriket as new, 500 miles later still the same, hasn't stretched or loosened up any. It appears they haven't done anything to alleviate the belt vibration, the new motor mounts must be for that bigger motor coming, there was a fair amount of vibration present between 5200-5600 RPM's around 75 MPH, otherwise very smooth. A new tensioner will be available in a couple weeks, hoping to use existing holes so no drilling will be required. The SE Trans has made a believer out of me, I do miss the control of the clutch, but the shifting is effortless and the rev matching downshifting is great, loving it more everyday.

[Schnauzer]

There is no setting on the front shocks for 2013.:banghead:

Wow, how does one compensate for the weight differences of the Rider.. Not good, IMO

[Zenagirl]

I cant speak for anyone else & yes I'm new here too. I have not had any problems with my ST limited (white) that I can tell so far.Ive noticed that the tires look to be aligned okay but that's looking at it with a level and a tape.Plus on a flat surface with a dirty road the tires have the same pattern not cleaner on 1 side or the other.( just right )The only real noticeable thing that is the belt vibration every now and then & the high beams needed to be adjusted down some.( don't hunt coons off my bike ):roflblack: At my dealer they had the check off list ,yours should have the same.Ask for it and go over it again with the person that set up your bike. I now have 550 miles on my bike and it was born on 12-20-12.
I just received my back rest last night for the passenger :yes: that will go on today.( for you new people ,like me ) if you get this its a 3 piece deal so make sure your dealer orders all 3 pieces not just the back rest.

Next will be the bump skid plate ( A MUST ) from Syderpops

Then a belt tensioner ( ANOTHER MUST ) from Smoothspyder

I really love this ST model its a great bike I'm sure you will love it too Zenagirl good luck with yours and I hope this helps.

Well, it looks like I'm just going to have to take it as it comes, take it easy and get use to this new bike. I am looking forward to getting it out there and watching the miles go by. Thanks much for the input! And glad you are enjoying your new bike! I am getting fog lights and the bump skid plate on my list. Ryde safe!:spyder:

[Zenagirl]

I have ridden RTs for 3 years now but when i test rode the ST (for 2.5 hrs) I had extreme difficulty with the so called "floating issue".
With the change in suspension, tire size, etc the ST steering is highly highly sensitive, much more so than the RS and RSS s that I have ridden. I finally had to steer just using my fingers not palm on the the handgrips to handle it "light ' enough to not get the floating sensation.. It took me that full riding period to get the hand of the new and very different ride.. I don't think anything was wrong with the bike because the longer i rode it the more stable it became..

Thanks for the tip on having a light touch on the grips! No "death grip" on this model then! I've been following the blogs and posts regarding how wonderful the changes are on this new model, but didn't realize that folks have to handle it differently as well. I remember when I took my two wheeler safety class that I had the "death grip" on my bike's handle bars, and when I took my 3 wheeler class with the Spyder that was loaned to the class from Enumclaw Power Sports, I feel in love with the little green :spyder:. Before I took that class I never dreamed I'd be buy ing a :spyder:! I had been planing on trading in my Sportster on a 3 wheeler, but the "backwards" kind! :roflblack: You know, the one wheel in the front and the two in the back. Lighter touch and give it some time. Thanks again!

[Zenagirl]

I have owned my ST-S for over 3 weeks now. I have over 400 miles on it. Since this was my first Spyder, I didn't have anything to compare it to. When I first drove it, I thought something was wrong with the steering or alignment. It felt like it was wandering in the road. The more miles I drove it, the more I realized that I was the problem, not the Spyder. I was giving it the "death grip" and over controlling. The more I relaxed my grip, the smoother it handled. I think it has to do with the stiffer suspension vs earlier models. I would suggest putting several hundred miles on it before you draw any conclusions. You may find that the "alignment problem" has more to do with how the Spyder is driven than the vehicle itself. Hope this helps, and welcome to the Spyder community.

I don't have much to compare this Spyder to either, rode one in my 3 wheel safety class to get my endorsement, but that was it, and at slow speeds. Rode it enough to know that I truly loved it and had to have one. I started reading all the blogs and posts about this new ST that not only seemed to have the both of both the sporty and touring models, but that it was built better to hug the roads and for handling. Then decided that the ST model is what I needed, especially as I'm getting older and want to ride a long time. I didn't read about any problems with steering in any of the comments that I can recall. So glad that I am aware of this and that I won't panic when this happens to me. I will remind myself that the bike is just fine, that I need to lighten up on the grip as you and a couple of others have mentioned, and just give it some time and miles and then I'll know. Everyone's comments and advice have truly helped and I feel a lot better. It won't be just me, but most everyone else is having to learn the new mechanics as well.
Just will need to give both my new :spyder2: and me some time to get to know each other! :thumbup:

[Zenagirl]

I didn't want to say anything negative yet about the steering and burst anyone's bubble, as I know there are many waiting for their new ST. I now have 500+ miles on my ST and mine felt like it was hunting for a straight line at anything under 40, almost like when my DPS went out long ago, like it had a mind of its own. At 70 it was very floaty and sensitive, almost scary, steering felt like the tires had 50 Lbs, but only 17. The lead mechanic test drove it before I picked it up and he said, man!, that new steering is touchy. 2010 RT front shocks made a world of difference at highway speeds, tracks true and flat for the most part now, feels 100% better. At 30 MPH it still hunts some, but nothing like before, it would drift to the right and when I steered to the left slightly, nothing, then it would go left suddenly and I would have to go the other way. I wondered about the alignment, but thought surely by this time they have got that figured out, I thought it must be me and I will adjust eventually, now I'm not so sure. The steering does feel much quicker and doesn't seem to understeer or plow as much, I like that. Not to bash BRP, because their product has changed my life, I have that smile that I had 30 years ago when I rode my ATC, but I can't for the life of me understand why they would put such soft shocks on there with no adjustment. It would lean just getting on and just the weight of the spyder itself compressed them more than 1". Hang on to those old RT shocks, they will make a big difference. The headlights and the 60 watt bulbs are a vast improvement over the projector style lamps, no bouncing lights anymore. The twin piston Brembos are fantastic, and quiet! Those pulling a trailer will appreciate them all the more. The motor temperature doesn't seem to vary a whole lot and the fan really puts out a lot more air at more of a right angle than my GS, didn't notice any heat there. I have the pipes wrapped and heat shield material on the inside of the panels on my GS. I will do this soon, as my wife and I both noticed a considerable amount of heat on the left side, from the knee down, seems to be blowing out from under the top panel. The static belt tension was 220 lbs. on the ground with the kriket as new, 500 miles later still the same, hasn't stretched or loosened up any. It appears they haven't done anything to alleviate the belt vibration, the new motor mounts must be for that bigger motor coming, there was a fair amount of vibration present between 5200-5600 RPM's around 75 MPH, otherwise very smooth. A new tensioner will be available in a couple weeks, hoping to use existing holes so no drilling will be required. The SE Trans has made a believer out of me, I do miss the control of the clutch, but the shifting is effortless and the rev matching downshifting is great, loving it more everyday.

I am actually quite glad that there is talk about the feel of the new bike and that some folks have had some issues. After talking more with my dealer, and reading the comments and advice from everyone here, I will be more comfortable with my new bike and will be more aware of what I can expect and the whys of it all. And that it'll all work out! Thanks so much! :yes: Happy riding!!

[Blue Star]

Okay, don't know if I am doing this right. But thanks for the advise! Won't post on 2 threads :opps::opps: next time.

No problem, as that is how we all learn. There has been very good advise given, so enjoy the new ST.

[gswife]

:congrats: On the new RT!
Something you have to remember when dealing with them They work for you I am not sure if WA. has buyer remorse law like Oregon does and a few other states... :lecturef_smilie: But you can tell them you can bring your RT to another dealer to have the service done you don't have to have it done there.. You are making them money.

Something else as long as you don't take possession meaning riding off the lot you can get any money you give them back.. no matter if you signed the paperwork or not... its a federal law and while you are there to tell them you don't want it if they will not show you they have checked this problem out and show you documentation they did.... have the Phone number of the other dealership and call them to see what they say about you going and getting it from them instead... WHILE YOU ARE THERE WITH THEM.
They will be stepin and fetchin and:yikes: they will take care of your concerns!!!

Women always get the short end of the stick when it comes to dealing with dealerships, be they car or motorcycle dealers so let them know you are not going to take their bull!

THEY ARE NOT DOING YOU A FAVOR BY SELLING YOU THAT SPYDER YOU ARE DOING THEM THE FAVOR BY BUYING IT FROM THEM!

[Zenagirl]

:congrats: On the new RT!
Something you have to remember when dealing with them They work for you I am not sure if WA. has buyer remorse law like Oregon does and a few other states... :lecturef_smilie: But you can tell them you can bring your RT to another dealer to have the service done you don't have to have it done there.. You are making them money.

Something else as long as you don't take possession meaning riding off the lot you can get any money you give them back.. no matter if you signed the paperwork or not... its a federal law and while you are there to tell them you don't want it if they will not show you they have checked this problem out and show you documentation they did.... have the Phone number of the other dealership and call them to see what they say about you going and getting it from them instead... WHILE YOU ARE THERE WITH THEM.
They will be stepin and fetchin and:yikes: they will take care of your concerns!!!

Women always get the short end of the stick when it comes to dealing with dealerships, be they car or motorcycle dealers so let them know you are not going to take their bull!

THEY ARE NOT DOING YOU A FAVOR BY SELLING YOU THAT SPYDER YOU ARE DOING THEM THE FAVOR BY BUYING IT FROM THEM!

Thanks Deborah!!!!:clap:

[DocRags]

Congrats on your new bike! If it helps any, Zenagirl, you should remember that there are thousands of us Spyderlovers out there and most of us have NOT had an alignment problem. Read over your owner's manual from front to back, watch the safety DVD, practice, practice, practice and ENJOY, ENJOY, ENJOY. Read the prior posts under "Do's and Don'ts for new riders"...lots of helpful info there. And post any questions you end up with...lots of folks with knowledge and experience on here that are always glad to help.

[kubie]

Congrats on your new bike! If it helps any, Zenagirl, you should remember that there are thousands of us Spyderlovers out there and most of us have NOT had an alignment problem. Read over your owner's manual from front to back, watch the safety DVD, practice, practice, practice and ENJOY, ENJOY, ENJOY. Read the prior posts under "Do's and Don'ts for new riders"...lots of helpful info there. And post any questions you end up with...lots of folks with knowledge and experience on here that are always glad to help.


I just traded my 2012 RSS SE 5 in on a 2013 STS SE 5.
I love it! I'm 6' 4" tall and was just cramped on the RSS. The STS fits me so much better with the Floor boards, the taller profile and higher handle bars and oh and the adjustable wind shield, it fits me Great. The Shifting Is greatly improved. And not having to man handle the steering is definately a plus. The sensitivity of the steering Freeked me out! I am having the same issues as the other Spyder Riders on this Board! it seams to wonder. I have notaced that a lighter grip helps. but don't know if that is the complete fix. does any one know if BRP knows about this issue. I really thought/think somthing wasor is loose or out of alinement. I only have 150 miles on it So im going to try and get used to it but I still think somthing is Wrong. wish I could dampin down the sensitiivity and see if that helped!:)

[Kungfuspyder]

First of all congratulations on your new RT. I did have a problem with my 2012 RT, the owner of Hattiesburg Cycle had a problem with his ST, he only had about 3 spyders checked some were off some not nearly as bad as mine was. This dealer, as far I know only had this problem. It was up to this dealer to check the alignments at his expense. Not all new ST's have an alignment problem. I am sorry if I deceived you. Enjoy your RT, learn it, know how it functions, relax, enjoy it. The best experience, is your experience. I had talked with Scotty on the production of the spyders, they do check out them constantly on the line, correcting problems as they go along. I am very happy with my RT, I was unfortunate with the bad alignment. BRP did offer to have my RT checked out even after 6000 miles. If you have any problems with your Spyder, everyone here on spyderlovers will give you helpful info, the BRP people will listen and respond to you in time. I hope this helps.

[twain]

I thought I was the only one with this wandering bike issue. I traded my 2010 RS Tuesday and now have a tad over 600 miles on my new 2013 ST Limited. It is scary how it wanders even without wind. I am going to ask dealer to check alignment this week with 600 mile maintenance. If not an alignment issue is going to take some time to get use to more sensitive steering. Only other issue I have with ST is there is no glove box or any way to mount my RS tank bag.

[OldDog]

How is alignment checked and/or confirmed at the BRP factory? The Spyder is shipped with the front wheels off, correct?

Questions to ponder.

Does the new more sensitive steering on the ST require a more deliberate learning curve?

Is there a real production issue with wheel alignment of which BRP is unaware?

How would static alignment change between the factory and the dealer?

Those that have ridden the ST have said it tracks like its on rails. All the promotion by the ambassadors has been very positive as to the night and day difference in the ride between the 2012's and the new 2013's.

What are the assembly steps taken by the dealer to confirm alignment?

Chin stroking time... :chat:

[Zenagirl]

I thought I was the only one with this wandering bike issue. I traded my 2010 RS Tuesday and now have a tad over 600 miles on my new 2013 ST Limited. It is scary how it wanders even without wind. I am going to ask dealer to check alignment this week with 600 mile maintenance. If not an alignment issue is going to take some time to get use to more sensitive steering. Only other issue I have with ST is there is no glove box or any way to mount my RS tank bag.

Good luck with your 600 mile check up!! I'm nervous about getting out on my ST-S when it is delivered this weekend, knowing it has really sensitive steering compared to the previous steering has me concerned and a little scared. Just going to take it really easy and hope I can get the hang of it before long. I sure don't want to be scared everytime I take it out. :sour: You, know, I had thought the ST-L came with a glove box as well, and thought that was really cool. I was disappointed to hear that it doesn't. oh well, will have to figure something else out. Happy riding! :yes:

[NancysToy]

In modern factories, alignment is usually achieved by merely turning the rod ends in a specific number of turns. The robots that do the job may also check the rod length, but I don't think the actual alignment is ever measured. Not sure how this works with a more manual assembly system, but I doubt there is a check of the final assembly. I could be wrong. The dealer merely bolts on the wheels, he does not check alignment. Some don't even zero the steerings sensors on BUDS, electing to wait for the 600 mile service.

[OldDog]

I will state upfront that I am out of my element, but I want to ask those that know.

Am I correct in saying the shocks on the 2013's are not adjustable?

What is the median weight for correct alignment?

What is the load range of the new shocks?

Would weight below the median result in a toe out condition with the most weight on the outside of the rim?

Would weight over the median result in a toe in condition with the most weight on the inside of the rim?

Is alignment set with or without the median static load?

Am I mistaking toe in/out for camber?


Toe in/out would be along the longitudinal axis. Camber would relate to the vertical angle in or out. I think camber would be correct.

[NancysToy]

I will state upfront that I am out of my element, but I want to ask those that know.

Am I correct in saying the shocks on the 2013's are not adjustable?
That is correct, they are not adjustable.

What is the median weight for correct alignment?
The 2013 suspension geometry has been changed, so they may not have the same problem with the alignment changing as the attitude changed, that the earlier models (at least the RTs) do.

What is the load range of the new shocks?
Technically, it is the same as before, according to the specs. The spring rate is the equivalent, but the stiffness (preload) is no longer adjustable.

Would weight below the median result in a toe out condition with the most weight on the outside of the rim?
On an earlier RT a high front end attitude (from spring preload, aftermarket shocks, and/or a lightweight rider) tend to cause more toe-in. It seems to affect the RS less.

Would weight over the median result in a toe in condition with the most weight on the inside of the rim?
On an earlier RT a low front end attitude (from low spring preload, and/or a heavy rider) tend to cause more toe-out.

Is alignment set with or without the median static load?
Alignment should at least be spot checked with the normal rider/passenger/cargo load...but the prescribed alignment method calls for the Spyder to be jacked up with the front wheels removed, so the suspension is not loaded and it cannot be aligned with a normal load in place. The RT procedures compensate for loading the suspension, but the compensation is a constant.

Am I mistaking toe in/out for camber?
Caster and camber are not adjustable on the Spyder, and are pretty much fixed by the suspension geometry anyway, so toe-in is the only parameter of concern. Think of caster as the fore-aft tilt of the steering axis (kingpin angle or rake), camber as the lateral tilt of the wheels, and toe-in as how much closer the front edge centerline of the tire is than the rear edge centerline of the tire. Toe-in is the equivalent of cross-eyed.

We do not know the nature of any geometry or alignment issues on the 2013 models, if any, so it would be premature to guess at any solutions. This is nowhere to make assumptions. Let's just be patient and see what the factory, owners, and aftermarket manufacturers figure out.

[Bob Denman]

Scotty,
Thanks for spelling all of this out! :thumbup:

Old Dog,
Great questions! :clap:

[MMMII]

Just to increase the sample size: My ST-S is my first Spyder (received 2 weeks ago) and after 150ish miles, I don't believe I have any alignment issues. I do hope all those with issues get them resolved as I've had a blast ryding this thing around.

[duneside]

I will state upfront that I am out of my element, but I want to ask those that know.

Am I correct in saying the shocks on the 2013's are not adjustable?
That is correct, they are not adjustable.

What is the median weight for correct alignment?
The 2013 suspension geometry has been changed, so they may not have the same problem with the alignment changing as the attitude chaged, that the earlier models (at least the RTs) do.

What is the load range of the new shocks?
Technically, it is the same as before, according to the specs. The sring rate is the equivalent, but the stiffness (preload) is no longer adjustable.

Would weight below the median result in a toe out condition with the most weight on the outside of the rim?
On an earlier RT a high front end attitude (from spring preload, aftermarket shocks, and/or a lightweight rider) tend to cause more toe-in. It seems to affect the RS less.

Would weight over the median result in a toe in condition with the most weight on the inside of the rim?
On an earlier RT a low front end attitude (from low spring preload, and/or a heavy rider) tend to cause more toe-out.

Is alignment set with or without the median static load?
Alignment should at least be spot checked with the normal rider/passenger/cargo load...but the prescribed alignment method calls for the Spyder to be jacked up with the front wheels removed, so the suspension is not loaded and it cannot be aligned with a normal load in place. The RT procedures compensate for loading the suspension, but the compensation is a constant.

Am I mistaking toe in/out for camber?
Caster and camber are not adjustable on the Spyder, and are pretty much fixed by the suspension geometry anyway, so toe-in is the only parameter of concern. Think of caster as the fore-aft tilt of the steering axis (kingpin angle or rake), camber as the lateral tilt of the wheels, and toe-in as how much closer the front edge centerline of the tire is than the rear edge centerline of the tire. Toe-in is the equivalent of cross-eyed.

We do not know the nature of any geometry or alignment issues on the 2013 models, if any, so it would be premature to guess at any solutions. This is nowhere to make assumptions. Let's just be patient and see what the factory, owners, and aftermarket manufacturers figure out.



:shocked: WOW! I think I hurt my brain just reading that. Scotty you are:firstplace::bowdown:

[cyclelover63]

I agree with most of the posters here...Just ride and enjoy your new bike...A person can imagine all sorts of things...Keep and eye on the front tire wear..If you are wearing your tires out in app 5,000 miles or so,then you probably have an alignment issue with toe..Mine wore out at 6,000 miles,I had it aligned,new tires installed,now have 5,000 more miles on the new tires,and no wear showing at all..No machine is perfect,and few of them give a person the sheer enjoyment and feeling of freedom a Spyder does...I would still have mine even if I had to replace the tires every 5,000 miles..:2thumbs: