2013 ST or 2013 RT?

[Bryk]

TLDR: ST-S or RT-S, long distance tourer, which to go?

Now after demoing a 2012 RT, 2009 (I believe) RS, and a ST (shhh shh) I was hoping my mind would be closer to decided. Unfortunately it seems to be the opposite.

First of all let me state what I feel at this point as a newbie to the Spyder scene.

1. My initial guess that I would enjoy the Spyder is accurate.

2. My initial feeling that I would feel more relaxed/comfortable overall is accurate.

3. My initial guess that I would enjoy manual over semi-automatic is accurate. Semi shifts really smooth and fast, however I just feel it takes so much of the experience away (clearly everyone will have their own opinion on this).

4. My initial guess that all Spyders would ride fairly similarly, this I found to be in my opinion incredibly inaccurate. The RS especially with the manual shifting was extremely sporty, even more than I could have imagined. It being an older trade in, and not a 2013, it really dipped into the corners which while fun started to tire me out even on the short demo stretch when we took it on slow twisty roads.

I guess that's most of what I thought about it going into it. I've rode motorcycles for 5 years now. I started out on a 650R ninja, and just earlier this year made a big jump to a Victory Cross Country Tour(XCT). I am finding the XCT to be fine for solo riding, however after taking it on a week long 1500+ mile trip 2up I just don't think it is for me unfortunately. I will admit I packed it up quite a bit for the trip, but it like the RT Spyder claims a storage of 41 gallons(I still don't know how the RT has that much). The weight of the passenger and gear wore on me pretty quickly. It was a breeze cruising on the highways, but stopping felt like a chore. I unfortunately while am 5'10", have only a 30 inch inseam. I can flat foot it, but I'm not sure if it is the weight of it, or not being used to a cruiser, just seems a bit unnerving to me. Well unfortunately the construction zones in the province of Quebec don't seem to have the same standards that I am used to in the states. On what I consider on a main road, I believe it was route 132 from Rimouski to Campbellton there were 2 particularly bad construction zones, the first one had what I would guess to be 18 inches of loose gravel. Long story short the bike went down and suffered cosmetic damage when riding through.

My goal with the purchase of the XCT was to have a long distance two up touring machine to be able to take multiweek vacations across the country. Unfortunately it seems for me the beast seems a bit unwieldy under load of gear and a passenger.

Whether for better or worse I started to look at a Spyder as a possible solution.

I'll see what comments I get before I make this post too long, but what I am looking for is a fun bike commuting to work, and on daytrips (up to 300 mile days) as well as a long distance machine(as well as be able to do easy weekend camping). I am now starting to see the reason to have multiple bikes in the garage. However if possible I am still going to try to do it with one.

I am convinced I want manual regardless if I get the ST or RT, as I don't drive in traffic much which I could see as a huge benefit to the semi automatic, and I am 100% convinced I would find it more enjoyable.

After experiencing the beast that is the XCT, is it a bad idea to try to get an ST, add the removable saddlebags, add perhaps a 55 liter givi trunk (I had a 46 liter on my 650R), and have a goal of trailering a camping trailer as well? I would use the trunk for helmet storage. My XL Nolan does not fit in the RT saddlebags and seems like a squeeze in the frunk. Or should I go for the RT for the comfort factor of myself and my passenger?

TLDR: ST-S or RT-S, long distance tourer, which to go?

From the demo I went to I heard the demo guy state that the RT can't keep up in the twisties with the RS, but the new ST can. Opinions?

Thank you!

[NancysToy]

For long distance touring two-up, I think you will be better served by the RT. The passenger comfort and amenities can't be matched. By the time you add the bags, passenger backrest, heated grips, and so on to an ST, you are approaching the RT neighborhood in cost, anyway...and you still won't have the passenger heated grips, and some luxury options like the CB available. My opinion..... Get the RT if you ride a long way and frequently two-up. The ST for a mixture with more solo than dual, shorter and less frequent trips, or the ability to strip off the bags for a sportier ride. The RS for sporty solo riding, often in shorter bursts. JMHO

[warp10]

Get the RT, ride is better and the storage is all there, no straping anything on. You will be surprized at how often you will use the storage. As for keeping up with the RS in corners that is more of the rider than the machine. The RS is geared toward higher revs than the RT at the same speed. Put some ELKA'S on the front and you should be good to go. We have packed for a week, two up and ridden 600 miles in one day more than once with no problem. :ohyea:

[Arr MiHardies]

I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall reading the ST is only available in semi automatic.

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for a very well-written treatise on your experience so far. :thumbup:
This may just come down to the passenger's comfort level; The RT has that one covered!
But if that's not an issue... :shocked: Your decision will not come easy!

[JkRbbt]

Hi Bryk,

I feel your pain, bro! Decisions, decisions. I just demo-ed a 2012 RT and RS last week. I looked at the Spyder a couple years ago, but opted for a BMW RT at that time. Really liked the idea of the Spyder, but neither the RT or RS was quite what I was looking for. The ST looks to be the good middle ground I was looking for and will be REALLY looking at that machine when she arrives at the local dealer.

Personally, I really liked the semi-auto tranny. I'm an old retired airline pilot who started out with steam gauge instrumentation. By the time I retired, I was driving some pretty sophisticated machines and got to the point where I really enjoyed the technology. As much as the old tech was comfy and familiar, the new tech was way COOL! Personal taste.

I have had H/Ds most of my biking life and there is nothing like an Ultra if you are taking a long trip. Your second-in-command will enjoy the experience more, too, much more so than just hangin' on and letting you enjoy the driving! As far as actual riding, the RS just about threw me off as I exited the parking lot! Quick, agile and sporty. The RT was just plain comfy! I sat up, looked around and felt totally at ease. Guess it's all in how you plan to use it. Good luck on your decision.

[Bryk]

I believe only the limited is restricted to semi-automatic.

If I get the ST, I would be adding a lot of options. So yes the price would probably end up quite similar.

It seems like heated seat can't be added. However I'd consider adding passenger heated grips, fog lights, adjustable air suspension, the removable saddlebags. I think aftermarket would be highway pegs(for the RT as well), trunk, perhaps trunk rack, matching lid if available, the CalSci touring windshield. For the RT I would get the Corbin trunk armrests.

I do feel I would want an aftermarket seat. Taking the seat off to get gas seems a bit silly. Ultimate doesn't have heat, corbin a bit too firm? So I don't know. Overall I have a hard time arguing against the RT other than the potential handling upside of the ST. I want to keep it for the long haul, and I want to be able to have a passenger in comfort.

[ARtraveler]

:welcome: If you are going to be doing a lot of touring, the RT is the way to go. By the time you make the ST into a touring bike, you are going to have almost as many dollars invested as if you had purchased an RT in the beginning.

I would not be buying the ST just so I could ride the corners faster--I would recommend the model that serves your overall purposes better.

[Sarge707]

Hi Bryk,

I feel your pain, bro! Decisions, decisions. I just demo-ed a 2012 RT and RS last week. I looked at the Spyder a couple years ago, but opted for a BMW RT at that time. Really liked the idea of the Spyder, but neither the RT or RS was quite what I was looking for. The ST looks to be the good middle ground I was looking for and will be REALLY looking at that machine when she arrives at the local dealer.

Personally, I really liked the semi-auto tranny. I'm an old retired airline pilot who started out with steam gauge instrumentation. By the time I retired, I was driving some pretty sophisticated machines and got to the point where I really enjoyed the technology. As much as the old tech was comfy and familiar, the new tech was way COOL! Personal taste.

I have had H/Ds most of my biking life and there is nothing like an Ultra if you are taking a long trip. Your second-in-command will enjoy the experience more, too, much more so than just hangin' on and letting you enjoy the driving! As far as actual riding, the RS just about threw me off as I exited the parking lot! Quick, agile and sporty. The RT was just plain comfy! I sat up, looked around and felt totally at ease. Guess it's all in how you plan to use it. Good luck on your decision.

Performance by vehicle weight might help-
ST =860
New RT =954
Not that much difference in weight.
If you get a great deal on a 2012 sm5RT it weighs 929 SO only 69 pounds heavier than the ST?
There are Great Deals on 2012 RT,s right now!!!!

[pro10is]

I personally never liked the looks and feel of the RT and never will. I purchased an RS based upon its sporty looks and performance. I have never regretted that decision especially after riding an RT which I felt was too numb and isolating for my tastes. If I were to buy again today I would no doubt choose the ST, in my opinion it gives you more than enough touring capability while retaining the sports factor I require.

However my opinion and everyone else's shouldn't sway your decision. I highly suggest waiting until you can test ride both an ST and an RT. Then make a decision based upon a direct one on one comparison and what features and style you desire.

[bullant12]

I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall reading the ST is only available in semi automatic.

It comes in both. According to BRP's ST Specs page:

Transmissions5-speed manual with reverse (SM5)
5-speed semi-automatic with reverse (SE5)

Limitted only comes in SE5, Base and ST-S have both options according to the build and price info.

[Bryk]

I personally never liked the looks and feel of the RT and never will. I purchased an RS based upon its sporty looks and performance. I have never regretted that decision especially after riding an RT which I felt was too numb and isolating for my tastes. If I were to buy again today I would no doubt choose the ST, in my opinion it gives you more than enough touring capability while retaining the sports factor I require.

However my opinion and everyone else's shouldn't sway your decision. I highly suggest waiting until you can test ride both an ST and an RT. Then make a decision based upon a direct one on one comparison and what features and style you desire.

Yeah, after testing the ST I am now unsure. I think I'll have to test ride them both again. I definitely liked the improved front end. The 2009 RS just dipped so much where the ST did not. If the 2013 RT feels better it will only make it a tougher call.

[flamingobabe]

Bryk....Let's start this off as I am 5' tall & have a 2009 RS with lots of accessories including RT shocks......I too have ridden the ST, RT & RS...back a year ago...as one of the test riders...I understand there is lots of improvement since then....the ST was a kick in the pants...fast, strong and responsive...I really enjoyed...loved the ST....the RS was just not quite there as ST...the RT is like riding a luxury sport car -vs- a low end sport car....the curves are fun but smoother..you just glide thru...the ST will put you there in the curves with a woohoo effect....ST is for me...I never have a passenger...but I was a passenger for 20 years...my husband always made sure I was happy....so you need to take your passenger on a few test rides...if you want to make her happy... ask her

[Bryk]

Bryk....Let's start this off as I am 5' tall & have a 2009 RS with lots of accessories including RT shocks......I too have ridden the ST, RT & RS...back a year ago...I understand there is lots of improvement since then....the ST was a kick in the pants...fast, strong and responsive...I really enjoyed...loved the ST....the RS was just not quite there as ST...the RT is like riding a luxury sport car -vs- a low end sport car....the curves are fun but smoother..you just glide thru...the ST will put you there in the curves with a woohoo effect....ST is for me...I never have a passenger...but I was a passenger for 20 years...my husband always made sure I was happy....so you need to take your passenger on a few test rides...if you want to make her happy... ask her

I agree entirely flamingobabe, thank you. I just hope I can perhaps demo a ST with at least a passenger backrest. Perhaps I would be better off trying to find a place to rent one for at least a week.

[StanProff]

Are you guys talking about the 2013 ST's? I didn't know they were in the showrooms yet. Someone help me, am I mistaken?
By the way, If I were on the fence about an RS, RT or ST and in any way leaning toward a RT now is the time to get a great deal on a 2012! I hear some Limiteds are going in the mid to low 20's.

[Bryk]

Are you guys talking about the 2013 ST's? I didn't know they were in the showrooms yet. Someone help me, am I mistaken?
By the way, If I were on the fence about an RS, RT or ST and in any way leaning toward a RT now is the time to get a great deal on a 2012! I hear some Limiteds are going in the mid to low 20's.

While I know there are great deals on 2012 RTs. I am heavily leaning towards paying the extra for the 13s. I think the front end differences alone are worth it.

Well the ST, "Shh shh", I was told I know people. :) Ha ha, I was extremely lucky. From the short ride all I can say is it seems to not wear me out like the RS did, it did feel truly in the middle in terms of the weight. Other than that I need to ride it longer. However after riding it I will say it is making my decision tough. I was leaning before more towards the RT, but after riding the RS, then the ST. I no longer know.

How many added Givi trunks? Which mounting bracket is used, does anyone have a link? I doubt I will be able to find a matching lid as well to match the circuit yellow.

[NancysToy]

While I know there are great deals on 2012 RTs. I am heavily leaning towards paying the extra for the 13s. I think the front end differences alone are worth it.

Well the ST, "Shh shh", I was told I know people. :) Ha ha, I was extremely lucky. From the short ride all I can say is it seems to not wear me out like the RS did, it did feel truly in the middle in terms of the weight. Other than that I need to ride it longer. However after riding it I will say it is making my decision tough. I was leaning before more towards the RT, but after riding the RS, then the ST. I no longer know.

How many added Givi trunks? Which mounting bracket is used, does anyone have a link? I doubt I will be able to find a matching lid as well to match the circuit yellow.
You will be on your own to mount a topcase on a RS or ST, now that GIVI has discontinued the SR770. That has not stopped a number of GS/RS owners, however.

[MouthPiece]

Are you guys talking about the 2013 ST's? I didn't know they were in the showrooms yet. Someone help me, am I mistaken?
By the way, If I were on the fence about an RS, RT or ST and in any way leaning toward a RT now is the time to get a great deal on a 2012! I hear some Limiteds are going in the mid to low 20's.


I'm with you. I thought only Lamont and a few of the others had the privilege to go through the "paces" with the ST. :dontknow::dontknow:

Chris

[vtrider]

I've been reading many of the posts since the introduction of the 2013's was released. Next spring I hope to be able to try out and demo both an ST and an RT. I've tried a 2012 RT LTD and really liked it for the touring comfort. What I think I will like about the ST is it's middle road stance between still being sporty, yet has some comfort features built in for touring as well. I'm on the fence as well in making a decision on the RT or ST, should I decide to upgrade from my RS. The RS has treated me to 52,000 miles with lots smiles! A part of me doesn't want to part with it and thats a decision I will have to make should I decide to upgrade.

[arntufun]

I've been reading many of the posts since the introduction of the 2013's was released. Next spring I hope to be able to try out and demo both an ST and an RT. I've tried a 2012 RT LTD and really liked it for the touring comfort. What I think I will like about the ST is it's middle road stance between still being sporty, yet has some comfort features built in for touring as well. I'm on the fence as well in making a decision on the RT or ST, should I decide to upgrade from my RS. The RS has treated me to 52,000 miles with lots smiles! A part of me doesn't want to part with it and thats a decision I will have to make should I decide to upgrade.




You mean change models right ??????? I forgive you this one time for saying a ST or a RT is a upgrade because your a friend of mine.

BTW, there are a few things I want off your ride if you decide to change models Adrian. :thumbup:

[Bob Denman]

Your plucking eyeballs out of the carcass and he ain't even dead yet??? :shocked: :roflblack:

[Buttsy]

Saw an ST this past weekend at a ride our dealer had sponsered. The local BRP rep had it there............(remember this is coming from an RT guy) it was OK? Personally I often wonder when a "middle" of the line-up model comes out like the ST will they end up producing something that is great at nothing but OK at most things?

Good luck but I think it is going to be tough to find that happy medium........ Get the RT and a new "Ninja" and you should be good to go? Oh and for goodness sake dump the Victory:roflblack: I wondered who was the one who had bought one?

[GeoffCee]

I personally never liked the looks and feel of the RT and never will. I purchased an RS based upon its sporty looks and performance.

Agreed. I liked the looks of the RS better than the RT but I bought the RT because our requirement is for 2-up touring and the luggage space and comfort built into the RT is exactly what we needed to cover the miles. You are right, the RS is the more exciting machine but sporty riding long distances can be tiring, when you arrive at your hotel in the evening you want to feel fresh enough to visit to the bar and restaurant. If you are so worn out you crash out on your bed until morning think what you'd be missing! ;)

[chris56]

I ryde on the evening an hour or so or a sunday trip with some bikerfriends ..so the RS is the right for me

3-4 times in the year we do a longer weekend over the mountains (2up) so I need 2(3?) cases without them my wife would not ryde with me

and for me without the cases the spyder looks 100% more sporty/faster/dynamic ..

5572355724
here is my 2 year old problem - it costs me always 100 mls extra to drive to venice with the RT

[Netminder]

I love the comfort and ride of my RT! But having rode the RS, you see the fun factor. Most of our riding is two up, so the RT was the right fit. But if I was alone I think The RS or ST would be my choice, leaning more towards the ST for the little extra comfort and riding positon. now If I had a pile of cash, I would have one of each!:yes::2thumbs::ohyea:

[vtrider]

[/B]

You mean change models right ??????? I forgive you this one time for saying a ST or a RT is a upgrade because your a friend of mine.

BTW, there are a few things I want off your ride if you decide to change models Adrian. :thumbup:

Well Randy, I guess you got me on that one! It's an upgrade for me considering some of the refinements they made on the 2013's. Although, my 2008 GS/RS spyder has been a real good ride for me, so I can't really complain. Now, if only this economy we are in would improve it would make it easier to make a decision on buying a new RT or ST!...$$$$

[Ga Blue Knight]

I have had both the RS (2009) and now an RT (2012) and rode them in all kinds of conditions and road types. I have not tried an ST yet. My interpretation of both is pretty much in agreement with what has already been written. What I want to throw out here is that if the only reason to buy a new 2013 model is the front end ride you can get pretty close with Elka shocks and Baja Ron's new sway bar. Both together most likely would cost around $1,000 installed. You could also backfit the new 15" wheels and fenders if you wanted to. A 2012 RT right now is about $3,000 to $5,000 less due to sales deals. The 2012 RT is also pretty sorted out now, available, and has lots of accessories and spare parts in stock. The 500 pound Elephant in the room that no one is talking about is that the 2013's are a new production and may have new production bugs and issues to work out, sort of like the 2010 introduction of the brand new RT. The choice is not an easy once but I envy you having that choice as it is a lot of fun planning and thinking about getting a new bike. Have fun, be safe and ride ride ride.

[elixermixer]

I agree entirely flamingobabe, thank you. I just hope I can perhaps demo a ST with at least a passenger backrest. Perhaps I would be better off trying to find a place to rent one for at least a week.
Best idea ever! Even if I doubt there will be many rental ST spyders yet I know renting an RS for a long weekend sealed the deal with getting the girl on the spyder band wagon.
it made a "do we want to do this?" to a "hell yeah we wanna do this"

[Bryk]

I have had both the RS (2009) and now an RT (2012) and rode them in all kinds of conditions and road types. I have not tried an ST yet. My interpretation of both is pretty much in agreement with what has already been written. What I want to throw out here is that if the only reason to buy a new 2013 model is the front end ride you can get pretty close with Elka shocks and Baja Ron's new sway bar. Both together most likely would cost around $1,000 installed. You could also backfit the new 15" wheels and fenders if you wanted to. A 2012 RT right now is about $3,000 to $5,000 less due to sales deals. The 2012 RT is also pretty sorted out now, available, and has lots of accessories and spare parts in stock. The 500 pound Elephant in the room that no one is talking about is that the 2013's are a new production and may have new production bugs and issues to work out, sort of like the 2010 introduction of the brand new RT. The choice is not an easy once but I envy you having that choice as it is a lot of fun planning and thinking about getting a new bike. Have fun, be safe and ride ride ride.

Is it really that close? If so can't anyone make the argument that an RS can be turned into an ST? Pullbacks, Madstad adjustable windshield, comfort seat, corbin saddlebags, moving the pegs if possible(that's probably the hardest to do).