Any A/mkt Clutch Kits for 09 SE5's? [Archive] - Can-Am Spyder & Ryker Three Wheel Motorcycles

pro10is

10-01-2012, 09:35 AM

My RS-S SE5 does the same thing but only very occasionally and usually only when shifting from first gear. It only has around 5500 miles so the clutch shouldn't be worn. It did start doing this after I switched to Amsoil (the proper motorcycle grade). Now I'm -not-, repeat -not- saying Amsoil has anything to do with it, it's just an observation. I know many run Amsoil with no problems. I don't know what the actual problem is and it occurs too infrequently to figure out why. I do plan to switch back to BRP synthetic on the next oil change just to see if it makes any difference.

I've carefully checked the oil level several times as low oil has been reported to cause such issues, but my oil level is not low or too high. So it's a mystery. If it continues I'll try to have the dealer look at it but it's not likely to occur when he does, so it'll probably go undiagnosed until if and when it gets worse.

Lamonster

10-01-2012, 10:10 AM

BRP has just came out with a new clutch that has an extra friction plate and steel plate along with a new oil jet. This will fit all Spyder models and years.

DLE

10-01-2012, 11:06 AM

DLE

10-01-2012, 11:11 AM

BRP has just came out with a new clutch that has an extra friction plate and steel plate along with a new oil jet. This will fit all Spyder models and years.

Thanks Lamont. Would that entail changing the entire clutch assembly, or just the clutch plates?
If I order the parts from my local Spyder dealer, would I need to specify the new clutch to ensure I get the new style?
Thanks for the notice.

Lamonster

10-01-2012, 11:20 AM

Thanks Lamont. Would that entail changing the entire clutch assembly, or just the clutch plates?
If I order the parts from my local Spyder dealer, would I need to specify the new clutch to ensure I get the new style?
Thanks for the notice.

It's just the plates and the oil jet and I would ask them to make sure it's the new style clutch.

docdoru

10-01-2012, 11:30 AM

BRP has just came out with a new clutch that has an extra friction plate and steel plate along with a new oil jet. This will fit all Spyder models and years.
An update clutch was long awaited :thumbup:

Scooter

10-01-2012, 11:53 AM

I am glad that I am not the only one having problems with clutches slipping, between 1st & 2nd. My 2010 RT SE is at the dealers now for the same problem HOWEVER, they can't find anything wrong with it. I had the same problem last year, I took it to the dealer three times, and they said nothing was wrong. I took it on a trip to NC and burned up the clutches, which they repaired, when I got back.
I am having the same problem again, and again they said that nothing is wrong; they said that because I installed "K" grips, the paddles were causing the problem. HOWEVER, the first time it happened, I didn't have the grips on the bike. Lamont, I sent an e-mail to Carlo, he said that if the Tech couldn't find anything wrong, then to call them, I don't think he did. When the Tech took it for a ride, he found that he had a problem shifting into low gears (I was not having that problem) and he found a code on the computer, so all he did is to order new paddles. Here we go again, except that my Warranty ran out this month. Now it looks that if the clutches go out now, it's my nickel! :banghead::banghead::banghead:

DLE

10-02-2012, 05:09 PM

It's just the plates and the oil jet and I would ask them to make sure it's the new style clutch.

Just finished ordering the new clutch. The part number isn't in the computer yet. They were finally able to obtain it and order same.
If anyone is interested, the part number is 420281935, listed as a clutch kit. Again, thanks for letting me know about it.

NancysToy

10-02-2012, 06:43 PM

Just finished ordering the new clutch. The part number isn't in the computer yet. They were finally able to obtain it and order same.
If anyone is interested, the part number is 420281935, listed as a clutch kit. Again, thanks for letting me know about it.

Thanks for your research. Much appreciated! I'll make good use of this soon.

pro10is

10-02-2012, 11:04 PM

Just finished ordering the new clutch. The part number isn't in the computer yet. They were finally able to obtain it and order same.
If anyone is interested, the part number is 420281935, listed as a clutch kit. Again, thanks for letting me know about it.

Are you going to install it yourself? If so please consider posting your experience here, and some photos of the install would be great.

billybovine

10-04-2012, 10:23 AM

Just finished ordering the new clutch. The part number isn't in the computer yet. They were finally able to obtain it and order same.
If anyone is interested, the part number is 420281935, listed as a clutch kit. Again, thanks for letting me know about it.

Since the SE clutch and the SM clutch are identical except one of the clutch plates is thicker, I would assume the kit number you quoted is for the SE and there would be a different number for the SM?

Lamonster

10-04-2012, 10:31 AM

Since the SE clutch and the SM clutch are identical except one of the clutch plates is thicker, I would assume the kit number you quoted is for the SE and there would be a different number for the SM?
Roadster 2012-7 - New Clutch Service Parts
- 420 281 930 (SM5)
- 420 281 935 (SE5)

DLE

10-04-2012, 01:19 PM

Roadster 2012-7 - New Clutch Service Parts
- 420 281 930 (SM5)
- 420 281 935 (SE5)

Thanks Lamont, I only obtained the SE5 number as that was what I ordered. Clutch is supposed to arrive next Tuesday. I'll take some photos and post them on the installation.
Do you know what changing the oil jet entails. I have not been able to find out anything regarding it's location and/or procedure regarding changing it.

Lamonster

10-04-2012, 03:09 PM

Thanks Lamont, I only obtained the SE5 number as that was what I ordered. Clutch is supposed to arrive next Tuesday. I'll take some photos and post them on the installation.
Do you know what changing the oil jet entails. I have not been able to find out anything regarding it's location and/or procedure regarding changing it.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54851&d=1349381333

DLE

10-04-2012, 03:24 PM

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54851&d=1349381333

Thanks, looks pretty straight forward.

DLE

10-08-2012, 03:49 PM

BRP has just came out with a new clutch that has an extra friction plate and steel plate along with a new oil jet. This will fit all Spyder models and years.

Since it has an additional friction plate and steel plate, would this eliminate the need for using additional adjustment plates. Should also add that the new steel driven plate is thicker then the 2.5mm original. When I measured the disk spring on the pressure plate I got 12mm. Measuring the from the top of the clutch hub to the last friction plate I got 11.5mm. Using the formula for adjustment plate thickness = B - A - nominal dimention 1.1mm, I was +.5mm, and did not add any adjustment plates. No new adjustment plates were sent, so would have had to use the old ones. Clutch still appears to be slipping. Any ideas?

Lamonster

10-08-2012, 04:00 PM

Since it has an additional friction plate and steel plate, would this eliminate the need for using additional adjustment plates. Should also add that the new steel driven plate is thicker then the 2.5mm original. When I measured the disk spring on the pressure plate I got 12mm. Measuring the from the top of the clutch hub to the last friction plate I got 11.5mm. Using the formula for adjustment plate thickness = B - A - nominal dimention 1.1mm, I was +.5mm, and did not add any adjustment plates. No new adjustment plates were sent, so would have had to use the old ones. Clutch still appears to be slipping. Any ideas?

The clutch pack doesn't come with the shims/ You want 1mm and I would say .5 is not enough. You'll have to order the shim kit.

DLE

10-08-2012, 04:41 PM

The clutch pack doesn't come with the shims/ You want 1mm and I would say .5 is not enough. You'll have to order the shim kit.

Any reason I could not use the 1mm plate from the original pack? It isn't burned or warped. Also the example given in the manual, would seem to imply that measurement B, is greater then A. This was not the case with the new clutch, as a result, A being .5mm greater then B. So adding 1mm, and using their formula, would make the nominal dimention further skewed, or am I looking at this wrong?

Lamonster

10-08-2012, 04:50 PM

Any reason I could not use the 1mm plate from the original pack? It isn't burned or warped. Also the example given in the manual, would seem to imply that measurement B, is greater then A. This was not the case with the new clutch, as a result, A being .5mm greater then B. So adding 1mm, and using their formula, would make the nominal dimention further skewed, or am I looking at this wrong?

This is one of those deals where I have to have it hands on, I can't do it in my head but I know you want to wind up with 1mm clearance or I think it was 1.2mm but I would have to check the book on that. You can use the old shims if it comes out right.

DLE

10-12-2012, 01:56 PM

This is one of those deals where I have to have it hands on, I can't do it in my head but I know you want to wind up with 1mm clearance or I think it was 1.2mm but I would have to check the book on that. You can use the old shims if it comes out right.

Removed the clutch cover and remeasured the pressure plate and disk spring, and the distance from the top of the clutch hub to the last friction plate, and found that while I had measured it correctly, I had read it wrong. And after thinking about it, realized, those measurements should come out to the same as the measurements of the OEM clutch, as a new disk spring was also part of the disk kit. After measuring, the adjustment plate thickness did come out to exactly what the original clutch had and after installing the plates, the clutch performed great. I made a quick 3 day trip up up the Idaho panhandle, across the North Cascades highway, down I-5 and back across Stevens pass. So it recieved a good workout.
A couple of questions; 1) since I had caught my clutch slipping early, and the friction plates were not burned or warped, nor were the steel driven plates, and the disk spring was well within spec., would it have been possible to measure the clutch free play, get a shim kit, make the proper adjustment and save myself the $500+ expense for a new clutch kit. 2) I do track my fuel economy, not that I am overly concerned about it, but it does give me a snapshot of the overall health of the machine. I did notice that it was dropping off, not a great amount, but some. Nothing else had changed. Now it is back to where it was. Just curious if other riders that have noticed a drop off in economy might be experiencing clutch issues.
In looking back, mine probably started awhile before manifesting itself to the point of becoming really noticible. I also am very cognisant of my RPMs when riding.

Lamonster

10-12-2012, 02:16 PM

Removed the clutch cover and remeasured the pressure plate and disk spring, and the distance from the top of the clutch hub to the last friction plate, and found that while I had measured it correctly, I had read it wrong. And after thinking about it, realized, those measurements should come out to the same as the measurements of the OEM clutch, as a new disk spring was also part of the disk kit. After measuring, the adjustment plate thickness did come out to exactly what the original clutch had and after installing the plates, the clutch performed great. I made a quick 3 day trip up up the Idaho panhandle, across the North Cascades highway, down I-5 and back across Stevens pass. So it recieved a good workout.
A couple of questions; 1) since I had caught my clutch slipping early, and the friction plates were not burned or warped, nor were the steel driven plates, and the disk spring was well within spec., would it have been possible to measure the clutch free play, get a shim kit, make the proper adjustment and save myself the $500+ expense for a new clutch kit. 2) I do track my fuel economy, not that I am overly concerned about it, but it does give me a snapshot of the overall health of the machine. I did notice that it was dropping off, not a great amount, but some. Nothing else had changed. Now it is back to where it was. Just curious if other riders that have noticed a drop off in economy might be experiencing clutch issues.
In looking back, mine probably started awhile before manifesting itself to the point of becoming really noticible. I also am very cognisant of my RPMs when riding.
You might have been able to shim it back to spec and saved some bucks what what fun would that be? ;)
I had a clutch that was shimmed wrong but it didn't have any effect on my mileage that I know of. It did have an effect on some of my parts. It's all good now. I'm glad to see you stuck it out in finding the issue. Not too many folks here get their hands dirty that deep into the Spyder. :doorag:

Not enough clearance
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32079&d=1315653524

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32078&d=1315653523

billybovine

10-12-2012, 03:54 PM

Removed the clutch cover and remeasured the pressure plate and disk spring, and the distance from the top of the clutch hub to the last friction plate, and found that while I had measured it correctly, I had read it wrong. And after thinking about it, realized, those measurements should come out to the same as the measurements of the OEM clutch, as a new disk spring was also part of the disk kit. After measuring, the adjustment plate thickness did come out to exactly what the original clutch had and after installing the plates, the clutch performed great. I made a quick 3 day trip up up the Idaho panhandle, across the North Cascades highway, down I-5 and back across Stevens pass. So it recieved a good workout.
A couple of questions; 1) since I had caught my clutch slipping early, and the friction plates were not burned or warped, nor were the steel driven plates, and the disk spring was well within spec., would it have been possible to measure the clutch free play, get a shim kit, make the proper adjustment and save myself the $500+ expense for a new clutch kit. 2) I do track my fuel economy, not that I am overly concerned about it, but it does give me a snapshot of the overall health of the machine. I did notice that it was dropping off, not a great amount, but some. Nothing else had changed. Now it is back to where it was. Just curious if other riders that have noticed a drop off in economy might be experiencing clutch issues.
In looking back, mine probably started awhile before manifesting itself to the point of becoming really noticible. I also am very cognisant of my RPMs when riding.

Thanks for letting us know how you made out. I find this stuff interesting.

DLE

10-12-2012, 05:17 PM

You might have been able to shim it back to spec and saved some bucks what what fun would that be? ;)
I had a clutch that was shimmed wrong but it didn't have any effect on my mileage that I know of. It did have an effect on some of my parts. It's all good now. I'm glad to see you stuck it out in finding the issue. Not too many folks here get their hands dirty that deep into the Spyder. :doorag:

Not enough clearance
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32079&d=1315653524

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32078&d=1315653523

Might I inquire as to what the symptoms were, how you realized it was your clutch. Any unusual sounds, etc. Which way was the clutch shimmed wrong? Too much, or too little. Thanks for your replies.

DragonLorD

10-12-2012, 06:18 PM

When I roll on the throttle at higher RPMs, the engine revs and the Spyder catches up after a couple of seconds. Assuming I may need a new clutch plates, is anyone aware of after market clutches for the se5?

BRP has known about the weak/slipping clutch since 2009, and put a new clutch in all Spyders since 2011. I bought my 2009 Spyder brand new and they replaced/upgraded a clutch under warranty, it was never a Recall but a well-known issue. Sunshine riders who never open the throttle will never even notice before their clutch slowly and surely smoke itself off - when the warranty is gone.

Lamonster

10-12-2012, 06:21 PM

Might I inquire as to what the symptoms were, how you realized it was your clutch. Any unusual sounds, etc. Which way was the clutch shimmed wrong? Too much, or too little. Thanks for your replies.

There was no clearance when I checked and I was getting a chatter. After new parts and shimmed properly it was fine. :doorag:

DragonLorD

10-12-2012, 06:25 PM

Easy way how to find out state of your clutch.
If it is 2010 or older - it needs a new clutch!
Test: bring it at 6000 rpm in 5th gear and fully open, if it reacts and accelerates, your clutch is still fine but will get there eventually. If engine revs up but no or delayed acceleration - it's a clutch time Pal.

DLE

10-12-2012, 06:27 PM

There was no clearance when I checked and I was getting a chatter. After new parts and shimmed properly it was fine. :doorag:

Reason I ask, is now when I put it in 1st or reverse, the clutch grabs and at an idle will try to move the machine if it is on the level. Really not a problem, just don't have to have the rpm's up to approximately 2400 for it to engage. Slight brake pressure holds it just fine.

Lamonster

10-12-2012, 07:23 PM

Sny

10-12-2012, 07:25 PM

DLE

10-12-2012, 09:27 PM

Assuming you have an SE what you're describing sounds like it's creeping at idle right?

The centrifugal clutch is engaging too early. Not the same kind of problem being described here.

After putting in the new clutch kit with the extra two plates plus a thicker steel driven plate, and a new disk spring, I assume it just tightened things up a little, made the clutch somewhat more responsive.

DLE

10-12-2012, 09:34 PM

Easy way how to find out state of your clutch.
If it is 2010 or older - it needs a new clutch.
Test: bring it at 6000 rpm in 5th gear and fully open, if it reacts and accelerates, your clutch is still fine but will get there eventually. If engine revs up but no or delayed acceleration - it's a clutch time Pal.

Thats when I noticed it. Either when I would hit resume on my cruise control or when I would pull out to pass another vehicle and roll the thottle wide open. The RPM's would jump but the Machine would then slowly catch up with the engine.

rcturner

10-14-2012, 07:30 AM

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54851&d=1349381333

What does the new oil nozzle do? Is it already in my 2012 RT?

NancysToy

10-14-2012, 09:47 AM

What does the new oil nozzle do? Is it already in my 2012 RT?
You have one. It sprays the clutch plates with oil constantly. The Rotax is a dry sump engine, so the clutch plates can't run in an oil bath in the sump to stay wet, they have to be fed with oil constantly. A jet feed of oil is better than old-fashioned splash lube anyway, as it has a controlled volume and less friction.

BLUEKNIGHT911

10-14-2012, 10:15 AM

You have one. It sprays the clutch plates with oil constantly. The Rotax is a dry sump engine, so the clutch plates can't run in an oil bath in the sump to stay wet, they have to be fed with oil constantly. A jet feed of oil is better than old-fashioned splash lube anyway, as it has a controlled volume and less friction.

Scotty, do you know what years and what models have this feature? And what happens to everyone else??.......... Mike
And I'm guessing this feature only effects the SE trans?

NancysToy

10-14-2012, 11:30 AM

Mike,
Everything has it, or the clutches wouldn't work. It is what makes the "wet clutch" wet.

rcturner

10-14-2012, 02:58 PM

BLUEKNIGHT911

10-14-2012, 07:44 PM

Everything has it, or the clutches wouldn't work. It is what makes the "wet clutch" wet.

Since they are talking about a NEW oil nozzle; Do we all need one? Thanks

NancysToy

10-14-2012, 07:52 PM

Mike,
I suspect it is not that critical, but for those that have experienced clutch problems, it should help prevent recurrence. More oil means a cooler clutch, and less likelihood of burning or warping the plates or discs.

DLE

10-14-2012, 11:21 PM

There is quite a bit of difference in the new and old nozzles. The old nozzle is very short, whereas the new nozzle looks somewhat like the needles that are used to air up a ball. It is considerably longer. I will post a picture of it when I figure out how to attach it.

NancysToy

10-15-2012, 08:22 AM

There is quite a bit of difference in the new and old nozzles. The old nozzle is very short, whereas the new nozzle looks somewhat like the needles that are used to air up a ball. It is is considerably longer. I will post a picture of it when I figure out how to attach it.Thanks for the info. In that case I suspect that there was also an improvement in the oil spray placement, getting it closer to the center of the clutch pack. I wonder if the nozzle is available separately?

docdoru

10-15-2012, 08:43 AM

I suspect it is not that critical, but for those that have experienced clutch problems, it should help prevent recurrence.
I thought that I was the only one with clutch problems ('course, "because of the turbo"). :dontknow:

Lamonster

10-15-2012, 08:45 AM

docdoru

10-15-2012, 09:21 AM

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=55664&d=1350308692

Thinner friction, thicker steel plates. Any changes in the springs (weight, height)?

DLE

10-15-2012, 02:03 PM

Thinner friction, thicker steel plates. Any changes in the springs (weight, height)?

The only spring involved with this kit was the spring disc. The pressure plate and clutch drum assembly were not involved, so did not remove them, as my discs had just started slipping and were not burned. Shop mechanic as well as myself could not detect any burnt smell or color in the oil. Also no reason to take the the pressure retaining valve apart, since the oil had just been changed and the air nozzle would have no reason to be clogged or dirty. So the compression spring did not come into play, and was not part of the kit.

DLE

10-15-2012, 02:34 PM

Thinner friction, thicker steel plates. Any changes in the springs (weight, height)?

These are some photos showing the difference in the steel driven plate, the offset faces the disc pack, very important to soak the plates in oil for 1/2 hour prior to installing. The clutch pack compression device is used to compress the disc pack to enable an accurate measurement from the top of the friction plate to the top of the clutch hub.
Also a photo measuring the the top of the spring disk to the machine surface on the pressure plate. Last photo is the old and new oil nozzle. IMG_0758
IMG_0759
IMG_0756
IMG_0760
IMG_0764
IMG_0770
IMG_0766
IMG_0768

pro10is

10-15-2012, 11:03 PM

These are some photos showing the difference in the steel driven plate, the offset faces the disc pack, very important to soak the plates in oil for 1/2 hour prior to installing. The clutch pack compression device is used to compress the disc pack to enable an accurate measurement from the top of the friction plate to the top of the clutch hub.
Also a photo measuring the the top of the spring disk to the machine surface on the pressure plate. Last photo is the old and new oil nozzle. IMG_0758
IMG_0759
IMG_0756
IMG_0760
IMG_0764
IMG_0770
IMG_0766
IMG_0768

Can you please repost? The images didn't show. Thank you.

BLUEKNIGHT911

10-15-2012, 11:44 PM

There is quite a bit of difference in the new and old nozzles. The old nozzle is very short, whereas the new nozzle looks somewhat like the needles that are used to air up a ball. It is is considerably longer. I will post a picture of it when I figure out how to attach it.

This all very helpful and I thank you for sharing. Is the new oil nozzle available as a separate part, and if so, do you know the #? And should all the SE trans be retro fitted with this nozzle or just certain years and models? Thanks, Mike

Desert Spyder

10-16-2012, 08:07 AM

Reason I ask, is now when I put it in 1st or reverse, the clutch grabs and at an idle will try to move the machine if it is on the level. Really not a problem, just don't have to have the rpm's up to approximately 2400 for it to engage. Slight brake pressure holds it just fine.

This describes my RT to the T. My clutch hub disintegrated coming home from Durango. After the dealer there, good people BTW, replaced it the bike was a creeper. It was safe and driveable so I took it home. Lately I've been noticing some slippage from 1st to 2nd. There have been other anomalies recently which I can't put my finger on by what has been suggested here it sounds like the clutch plates should be changed out. Right?

Remember Lamont our conversation on this a few months back? After 3000 miles or so since Durango the bike is still a creeper.

BTW, I own a '10 RT SE5, and use Rons Amsoil. My last oil change was at the dealer for the filter kit. BTW, they only changed the clutch hub in Durango, no other parts.

billybovine

10-16-2012, 09:22 AM

This all very helpful and I thankyou for sharing......Is the new oil nozzle available as a separate part and if so do you know the #,.......and should all the SE trans be retro fitted with this nozzle or just certain years and models ??????.......Thanks ......Mike

This clutch upgrade is not just for the SE. There is a kit for SE and another for SM. This is logical because the clutch packs in both are identical except for one plate and the oil nozzles are the same. It also looks like it applies to all models from 2008 to 2012. I will wait until I have trouble or decide to rebuild the clutch and then get the kit with the new nozzle.

DLE

10-16-2012, 12:55 PM

This describes my RT to the T. My clutch hub disintegrated coming home from Durango. After the dealer there, good people BTW, replaced it the bike was a creeper. It was safe and driveable so I took it home. Lately I've been noticing some slippage from 1st to 2nd. There have been other anomalies recently which I can't put my finger on by what has been suggested here it sounds like the clutch plates should be changed out. Right?

Remember Lamont our conversation on this a few months back? After 3000 miles or so since Durango the bike is still a creeper.

BTW, I own a '10 RT SE5, and use Rons Amsoil. My last oil change was at the dealer for the filter kit. BTW, they only changed the clutch hub in Durango, no other parts.

The centrifical clutch assembly, without going into much detail, contains several disc's that perform different functions and some centrifical weights referred to as rollers. As the engine RPM's increase and the clutch spins, these rollers, which resemble small dumb bells, move out, increasing the pressure on the clutch discs, causing the clutch to engage and move the machine. When your clutch is setup properly, there are adjustment plates that provide a predetermined amount of clearance so, ideally at an idle, the clutch would not be engaged and at approximately 2400 rpm's it would engage.

When my machine was new, and the clutch was, for a lack of being able to describe it differently, tight, there was a small amount of creep when I would put it in 1st or reverse. As the clutch loosened up, that clearance became excessive, and I noticed the clutch was not engaging as quickly and was definitely was closer to 2400+ rpm's. But that also lead to excessive wear to the friction plates and under hard acceleration, as the rpm's picked up, the rollers in the clutch pack were all the way out, but as the wear on the friction plates was becoming excessive, the clearance was too great and the clutch was slipping, which would create much heat and over time burn and possibly warp some of the plates.
When I installed a my new clutch pack, the proper clearance was restored and now at an idle, the clutch does have a small amount of pressure being exerted on the friction disks at an idle. This will get better the more it is driven.
The most important take away from this is to realize that the biggest enemy to your clutch is driving and shifting at low RPM's. This can cause a lack of complete pressure on the disk pack, and the slippage to occur, providing excess wear on the friction disks.
The oil nozzle is part of the new disk pack, and does provide better oil distribution into the axis of the disk pack. I do not know if this is available separately.
Wish I could repost the photos, but have spent several hours trying and have not been sucessful.

So repent of your driving errors, go forth, keeping your rpm's and shift points high, rejoice and be happy, enjoy riding your machine thoughout the land.

docdoru

10-16-2012, 06:43 PM

The most important take away from this is to realize that the biggest enemy to your clutch is driving and shifting at low RPM's.
NOT my case (RS SM5):

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm136/docdoru/SNAG_Program-0000.jpg?t=1256076766

DLE

10-16-2012, 09:10 PM

NOT my case (RS SM5):

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm136/docdoru/SNAG_Program-0000.jpg?t=1256076766

Sorry, you are correct. Should have clarified that I was referring to the se5.

rcturner

10-17-2012, 09:01 AM

What does the new oil nozzle do ? Is it already in my 2012 RT ?

Back to my original question, does my 2012 have the new nozzle? Based on the additional information included in this post, it is a significant change but nothing about when it was incorporated into production.

Lamonster

10-17-2012, 09:43 AM

Back to my original question, does my 2012 have the new nozzle? Based on the additional information included in this post, it is a significant change but nothing about when it was incorporated into production.

Pretty sure this is a 2013 change but you can purchase the updated parts.

BLUEKNIGHT911

10-17-2012, 11:42 AM

Pretty sure this is a 2013 change but you can purchase the updated parts.

Lamont, when you say parts, do you mean an entire Clutch kit, or can you just get the "OIL NOZZLE"? and if you can get the oil nozzle, do you have a part #? Thanks, much appreciated. Mike :thumbup:

rcturner

10-17-2012, 05:50 PM

Pretty sure this is a 2013 change but you can purchase the updated parts.

What would be the circumstances that would make this modification necessary or at least desirable ? Is this a modification that could be done by the home mechanic that has about 50 years of experience working on motorcycles, cars, etc or is it something that needs to be done by the dealer ?

DLE

10-17-2012, 08:33 PM

What would be the circumstances that would make this modification necessary or at least desirable ? Is this a modification that could be done by the home mechanic that has about 50 years of experience working on motorcycles, cars, etc or is it something that needs to be done by the dealer ?

Putting a new nozzle in is a very simple, straight forward procedure. Taking the panels off to gain access to the location will take you twice the time as the actual procedure to replace it.
Not sure how necessary it is, it is something that is part of the new clutch pack.

rcturner

10-18-2012, 07:27 AM

BRP has known about the weak/slipping clutch since 2009, and put a new clutch in all Spyders since 2011. I bought my 2009 Spyder brand new and they replaced/upgraded a clutch under warranty, it was never a Recall but a well-known issue. Sunshine riders who never open the throttle will never even notice before their clutch slowly and surely smoke itself off - when the warranty is gone.

Not sure how necessary it is, it is something that is part of the new clutch pack.

Based on the first response above, the new clutch was incorporated in 2011. There must still be some kind of weakness that has caused them to redesign and include the nozzle change in the 2013 model after having the new clutch for two model years. What are we missing?

NancysToy

10-18-2012, 07:47 AM

Based on the first response above, the new clutch was incorporated in 2011. There must still be some kind of weakness that has caused them to redesign and include the nozzle change in the 2013 model after having the new clutch for two model years. What are we missing ?
The new clutch has thicker plates, which I suspect addresses the plate warping that has been seen...as well as more plates and discs, which will add friction and clutch surface area. The longer nozzle will distribute oil to the center of the pack, which should address heat buildup (which warps plates and burns discs) and relatively dry discs (which causes discs to slip or burn, and reduces clutch effectiveness). I don't think this will result in a clutch that can take more horsepower or hard use, because the clutch pressure remains the same, but it will make the clutches more durable and increase clutch longevity for the average rider. JMHO

docdoru

10-18-2012, 08:21 AM

I don't think this will result in a clutch that can take more horsepower or hard use, because the clutch pressure remains the same, but it will make the clutches more durable and increase clutch longevity for the average rider. JMHO
I will test that...:yes:

billybovine

10-18-2012, 09:43 AM

BRP has known about the weak/slipping clutch since 2009, and put a new clutch in all Spyders since 2011. I bought my 2009 Spyder brand new and they replaced/upgraded a clutch under warranty, it was never a Recall but a well-known issue. Sunshine riders who never open the throttle will never even notice before their clutch slowly and surely smoke itself off - when the warranty is gone.

Based on the first response above, the new clutch was incorporated in 2011. There must still be some kind of weakness that has caused them to redesign and include the nozzle change in the 2013 model after having the new clutch for two model years. What are we missing?

According to BRP's parts catalog, all Spyders from 2008 to 2012, both SE5 and SM5, use the same Friction Plates 420259266 3.5mm, Clutch Plates 420259263 1.5 mm. If there was a difference made in 2011 model year it was not in the clutch pack that the new kit addresses.

NancysToy

10-18-2012, 12:14 PM

According to BRP's parts catalog all Spyders from 2008 to 2012, SE5 and SM5 use the same Friction Plates 420259266 3.5mm, Clutch Plates 420259263 1.5 mm. If there was a difference made in 2011 model year it was not in the clutch pack that the new kit addresses.
The new friction plates are 2.4 mm, compared to the old 3.5 mm discs. The new plates are 1.8 to 2.1 mm, comapered to 1.5 mm for the old ones. The hardened plate remains the same for the SM, at 1.5 mm, but increses to 3.0 mm compared to 2.5 mm for the SE. See Service Bulletin 2012-7, published 8/27/2012. The SE also requires a new adjustment plate kit (P/N 420 281 535) not included in the clutch kit. I suspect the parts fiche has not caught up with the changes yet, but the TSB states that the old configuration parts are no longer available. BTW, these changes were introduced during the 2012 production run, beginning with S/N 8658417 for the SM and 8658270 for the SE.

Lamonster

10-18-2012, 12:32 PM

The they went to a thinner friction plate because they are using a steel plate now instead of aluminum so they were able to reduce the stack height and get the extra plates in. :doorag:

billybovine

10-18-2012, 12:47 PM

The new friction plates are 2.4 mm, compared to the old 3.5 mm discs. The new plates are 1.8 to 2.1 mm, comapered to 1.5 mm for the old ones. The hardened plate remains the same for the SM, at 1.5 mm, but increses to 3.0 mm compared to 2.5 mm for the SE. See Service Bulletin 2012-7, published 8/27/2012. The SE also requires a new adjustment plate kit (P/N 420 281 535) not included in the clutch kit. I suspect the parts fiche has not caught up with the changes yet, but the TSB states that the old configuration parts are no longer available. BTW, these changes were introduced during the 2012 production run, beginning with S/N 8658417 for the SM and 8658270 for the SE.

I know that the friction and clutch plates have changed dimensions, a previous post by Lamont clearly outlined that. I was responding to a post that said the clutch was changed in 2011 and I could not find any evidence of it. Even if the parts changed during the 2011 model year it still should have showed up in the 2012 parts catalog. What's new to me that the change was made during the 2012 production run and proves my point that it was not done in 2011.

DLE

10-18-2012, 01:10 PM

I will test that...:yes:

After looking at your chart that you posted, and my limited knowledge concerning your machine, (ie, sm5, turbo charged) I had a couple of questions. The sm5 has a vacuum assist clutch that comes into play up to approx. 4000 rpm's or your throttle position, less bringing on more assist. When you installed your turbo, were you required to install a vacuum pump to make up for the lost vacuum? I'm assuming, that your shift points would be higher then 4000 rpm's, so the vacuum would not be enabled or required at that point.
At what RPM's does your turbo start coming on? If at below 4000 rpm's, this would cause a loss of vacuum assist to the clutch. And possibly the lower rpm failures compounding into upper rpm (above 6000) failures.
I thought you mentioned you had gone through 7 clutches. I would be interested in learning how they failed, ie, gradually, slipping, catastrophic?

DLE

10-18-2012, 01:23 PM

The they went to a thinner friction plate because they are using a steel plate now instead of aluminum so they were able to reduce the stack height and get the extra plates in. :doorag:

The steel driven plate, while thicker, also has offset tabs on the perimeter, providing clearance for the friction plate tabs as they are also offset as well as being U shaped, while still allowing them to marry up to the friction plate, probably making for better oil flow and cooling. And allowing the clearance for the extra plates.

docdoru

10-18-2012, 02:23 PM

After looking at your chart that you posted, and my limited knowledge concerning your machine, (ie, sm5, turbo charged) I had a couple of questions. The sm5 has a vacuum assist clutch that comes into play up to approx. 4000 rpm's or your throttle position, less bringing on more assist. When you installed your turbo, were you required to install a vacuum pump to make up for the lost vacuum? I'm assuming, that your shift points would be higher then 4000 rpm's, so the vacuum would not be enabled or required at that point.
At what RPM's does your turbo start coming on? If at below 4000 rpm's, this would cause a lost of vacuum assist to the clutch. And possibly the lower rpm failures compounding into upper rpm (above 6000) failures.
I thought you mentioned you had gone through 7 clutches. I would be interested in learning how they failed, ie, gradually, slipping, catastrophic?
Let's start with the last q: the clutches never failed catastrophic, just progressive slipping.
The Aerocharge Turbo doesn't require the auxiliary vacuum pump.
The clutch #8 (with 16K miles, zero slippage - including the FIM World Record in Bonneville: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?39574-FIM-and-AMA-Bonneville-2012) is a combination of BRP basket and Hayabusa (steel and friction plates) with Monster springs.

rcturner

10-18-2012, 03:56 PM

BTW, these changes were introduced during the 2012 production run, beginning with S/N 8658417 for the SM and 8658270 for the SE.

Are these engine serial numbers ? My bike serial number is nothing like these.

NancysToy

10-18-2012, 04:15 PM

Are these engine serial numbers ? My bike serial number is nothing like these.
Quite possibly. They are not the same as VIN#s. They are what BRP lists in the TSB.

Spydy76

04-19-2015, 08:42 AM

Hello everybody, Looking for additional information...

I need to change the clutch-kit on my 2009 GS-SE.
I have just got the clutch-kit (420 281 935) + adjustement kit and I´m looking for some information how to install it, because some parts are different comparing to the old one.

Can somebody send me the service bulletin 20012-7 or can somebody give me some information about:

which side to insert the friction plates - the small brackets with the open side or with the side marked with a number to the outside
is there a special sequence to insert the steel plates - the thickness is different (up to +0,2mm)

It would be great if somebody can help me.
Thanks in advance.

Spydy76

OZZ3

09-01-2019, 10:20 AM

Spydy76, Did anyone reply with information you requested on assembly of new style clutch kit for se5? OZZ3
If so could you pass this on to me, I am in the middle of clutch change on a friends 2011 SE5 RT right now. send to "osbornlk@my180.net" Thanks.

Peter Aawen

09-01-2019, 03:41 PM

Hi OZZ3, rather than waiting for an answer in a thread that hadn't seen a post for 2 & 1/2 years, Spydy76 started a new thread, got his answer, & we haven't seen him since April 2015! :(

Here's a link to his thread: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?79802-clutch-kit-gs-se-installation&p=963909#post963909

For what it's worth, it looks like the solution was to follow the instructions in the 2013 Workshop Manual, but have a read & see what you think. Good Luck! :thumbup:

ddtoit

01-13-2021, 09:31 AM

Hi do you pls have the clutch kit parts number pls

Regards

Possible

01-13-2021, 10:11 AM

Just a heads-up, this thread dates from 2012, so some of the posters may not still be active.

billybovine

01-13-2021, 12:35 PM

Hi do you pls have the clutch kit parts number pls

Regards

You are not giving us much to go on. May I suggest next time including all the details about your Spyder. Model, Year and any mods that may be important. With that I will take a guess at what you may be asking. So here is an exploded view of a clutch for a 2015 991 SE5 clutch assembly. Is this what you are looking for or are you looking for the slave cylinder parts.

pegasus1300

04-23-2024, 09:51 PM

Snowbelt Spyder

04-24-2024, 06:06 AM

I see that this question was never answered. Does anybody know at what point the extended nozzle was incorporated on the assembly line? and yes I know it is a way old post, but it is relevant to a current post by somebody else with clutch problems and there are also a lot of us still here with old VTwins who may be approaching a mileage that will warrant a clutch repair.

Hey Bud. It was standard for the 998 starting in 2013. The SE5 and SM5 had different part numbers, but both had the extended nozzle. Look on the parts exploded diagrams for Engine Lubrication. It’s shown just above the engine oil filter, piece #23. Easy to get to. Never heard that the extended nozzle couldn't be used while keeping the original clutch, or if that would be beneficial at all. It was only the disc kit that was changed. But, I never changed mine. (If it ain't broke.....) It’s in the shop manual in the Lubrication Section. Post #17 back on page 1 shows location.