Amsoil Test Results

[BajaRon]

Ok, for some, oil is a Bla-Bla-Bla subject. Yet you'll find very few topics that continue to :bdh:like oil threads do.

You probably have not noticed, but I do tout the benefits of a true, full synthetic oil on rare occasion... My chosen lube is Amsoil. I don't claim it's the best or that there aren't comperable products out there. Just that Amsoil is a superior product and one of the very few true synthetic motor oils left as most of the heard has gone to doctored dyno oil which is now legal to call 'Synthetic'.

But it dawned on me that I've been telling people they can go 5k or better between oil changes on Amsoil based solely on research. I had never actually verified my statments by having my oil tested.

So I sent a sample from my last oil change off to the lab. I was actually a bit nervous because I had 6,400+ miles on the odometer since my last change. What if the test results were bad news! I would be obligated to eat serious crow right here on Spyderlovers.com! :yikes:

I use HiFlo filters, which I believe to be of very high quality. But they can't save the oil from all those miles of crushing and re-crushing by the transmission gears, and long hours at 100+ temps day after day.

This oil change took me from East Tennessee to the owner's event in Colorado. Then a few hundred miles at the owners event which included some spirited riding in the mountains. Then on to San Diego, CA. On the return trip we did one stretch of 1,465 miles (with a short nap for one of the group at a rest stop east of Memphis). Most of the riding was high speed freeway in tire melting, triple digit temps.

Then my Spyder sat from early July until Lamont's BBQ in September. I had intended to change the oil before the BBQ but never got around to it. So with about 6K on that oil we ran to Maggie Valley, did the Rattler, Hellbender and The Dragon, about an hour of stop and go (mostly STOP) in Pigeon Forge, and then home for an oil change.

And I am happy to say that my test results came back VERY GOOD! The Amsoil was still within spec (not just barely, but well within spec.) and I am glad that I have not been leading anyone astray.

I am going to test my next oil change as well. I really don't think I can beat my oil up any more than I did this time. But I kind of like getting the test data to compare.

[J W Miller]

​Wow! find that very interesting. Thanks for sharing this.

[spacetrucker]

10-4 Ron thanks for the info.i two do oil test and they all come back good, last test should some copper and found that radiator has some leakage. Got it fix with new hole radiator. Did test and all good now. 10-40 amsoil also .thanks Ron seya soon. John w

[SethO]

I like it too, works well and the temp gauge runs cooler with it, I ran stock in it on that same but less mile trip with a oil leak and it was a issue after I got back with the temp but after I have amsoil in it then it ran cooler and shifts better, I have found every motorcycle I ran full syn oil in shifts better and runs better when you are beating the crap out of it, or testing it however you look at it.

[AbNormy]

just bought a 2002 MB 320C and it not only doesn't have a dipstick, it has a sensor to tell you the level and the quality of the oil in the sump. bosch yet! where do you send the oil and how much does analysis cost? just switched to amsoil per your advice had been using BRP blend till i read it's castrol.

[YPILOT]

:agree:, I have almost 6 K on my last amsoil change. We're heading out today for a trip down to Charleston, SC. We probably will add 1000 miles on this trip. I did change the BRP filter after 3 K. I may send a sample to be checked when I change it next time. I usually run it 3 K change the filter and run another 3 K. I do have the new filter in so pushing this filter to 4 K shouldn't be a problem. Amsoil :thumbup:

[Crisis]

Thanks Ron, this is great news and we all appreciate what you do for us.

[ulflyer]

Ron, what were the numbers for the Viscosity (@100c) and for the Base Number?

[jimclarkf1]

Thanks Ron, I have talked to you a couple of times, and you have sold me, on my next change, hope to see ya at SPYDERFEST 3.

[zrc]

I was able to stretch some castroil "full synthetic" to almost 8400 miles until I started having spotty issues in the old transmission filters, however, the the go immediately after that, the same oil yielded in the old filters at 6500 miles.

I am currently running AMSoil, and new oil / trans filters in my RS and I have full intensions of attempting 2x the suggested interval which will put me right at 9200 miles till the next change. I fired this one off at 27618, so at 36,818 I will make my next oil check and change, if you want, I could send off the oil as well, see what we get back. I ride everyday as I am currently cleaning / prepping my car for sale, so my Spyder sees all various different types of traffic, speeds, and conditions.

[Sarge707]

I now have 3,400 with Your Filters and the Amsoil for 2 changes now and I,m going to go until 4,500 before I put in the New BRP filters!
My warrantie is up 7 Oct so I will be living dangerously? :yikes:

My 600 Mile oil change on the RT I,m going to get will be BRP synthetic with filter (Bought from Dealer WITH RECEIPT) SO I will just bring it in for them to Check the Computer and belt! I will strip the RT and do the Greasing, Check Oil tank filter and oil change.

After That its Amsoil All the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bowdown:

[BajaRon]

just bought a 2002 MB 320C and it not only doesn't have a dipstick, it has a sensor to tell you the level and the quality of the oil in the sump. bosch yet! where do you send the oil and how much does analysis cost? just switched to amsoil per your advice had been using BRP blend till i read it's castrol.

You can purchase a kit here - http://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?GroupID=683

Or you can order them through me for $31.00 per kit - delivered. It's usually about a $4.00 savings.

This is for the postage paid kit.

[2 Cruysyn]

...And I am happy to say that my test results came back VERY GOOD! The Amsoil was still within spec (not just barely, but well within spec.) and I am glad that I have not been leading anyone astray.

I am going to test my next oil change as well. I really don't think I can beat my oil up any more than I did this time. But I kind of like getting the test data to compare.

Thanks for the info Ron. I'll be adding my results, riding under different conditions, in the near future. Just a couple thousand miles to go before it's time to send it off to the lab.

[billpowell]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing

[BajaRon]

Thanks for the info Ron. I'll be adding my results, riding under different conditions, in the near future. Just a couple thousand miles to go before it's time to send it off to the lab.

If you don't mind, can you send a copy of the report to me? I'd like to compile these to get an idea of how different conditions, oil filters, etc., affect the overall results.

Also, I found the results of my test pretty confusing. There was not much reference information. I guess they assume you know what the results mean. After doing some research I've been able to decifer the test results so if you need some interpretation help let me know.

[IWN2RYD]

Love reading about good results like this.

However, I am not a follower or a sheep if you will. Therefor I must ask. Who is the Lab? Amsoil? Independent Lab? I am sceptical of any "In-house" test... That is not the same as not believing them mind you, just requires more testing and or salt with the info :thumbup:

[donnellpj]

Ron,

Thanks for the killer post.

Can you copy us a link to the oil you're using? I would like to stay full synth, and rather than suffer the public ridicule from Nancystoy any longer, I'm considering switching to Amsoil. :rolleyes:

Also, has anyone used the K&N oil filters, especially since the change to the OEM filter?

Thank you --Pete

[spacetrucker]

I will post the link to the company that I use. It's for big rigs but they do the same test and they tell you in very good works what is going on with your oil. So when I get home will get it out and name and price for the test. Best oil place for testing. Thanks all.

[spacetrucker]

Also you can get a test kit from the ta truck stops. That the big rigs use. This is the one I use, on my big rig and cars ,bikes works well. Check them out if you have ta truck stop by you.

[spacetrucker]

Go to the ta shop and that where they have the kits.

[crossbowme]

I have a friend with a Dodge 2500 with a Cummins diesel. He has about 250,000 on it now. Since it was new he has used Amsoil and had it tested. He routinely gets 25,0000 miles between changes! He also uses a high performance filter.

I use Amsoil in all my gasoline driven equipment except the Spyder. I got the maintenance agreement so currently I use their BRP oil. Once the agreement expires, I'll use Amsoil.

[BajaRon]

Love reading about good results like this.

However, I am not a follower or a sheep if you will. Therefor I must ask. Who is the Lab? Amsoil? Independent Lab? I am sceptical of any "In-house" test... That is not the same as not believing them mind you, just requires more testing and or salt with the info :thumbup:

Good point. As far as I know, Amsoil does not do any 'For Sale' in house testing. They use Oil Analyzers, Inc. which is marketed as a subsidiary of Amsoil, Inc. However, the laboratory physical addresses for Oil Analyzers, Inc. and Polaris Laboratories are the same, (Indianapolis, Houston, Salt Lake City, Edmonton), so they are also marketed as an independent company as well.

The lab is ISO accredited so they have to meet the strict testing/reporting guidelines required for that. They're not going to be able to fudge numbers and keep that ISO status. They test all kinds and brands of oil just like the other oil testing companies out there.

I think you can trust their analysis. It would be too easy to verify the results for them to want to mess with the data.

I also sent in a sample from another Spyder and it didn't come back so good.


Ron,

Thanks for the killer post.

Can you copy us a link to the oil you're using? I would like to stay full synth, and rather than suffer the public ridicule from Nancystoy any longer, I'm considering switching to Amsoil. :rolleyes:

No one should run a lubricant (or anything else) to keep from suffering 'Public Ridicule', even if it is from Scotty! But I think you're just kidding.

Instead of a link, you'll be better of purchasing from one of the sponsors that offer Amsoil here at Spyderlovers. You'll get it for less money that way.

There is only 1 Amsoil product that is suitable for the Spyder (but then you only need 1) It is the 10w-40 MCF Full, True Synthetic motorcycle oil.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSUgBzrBeyeYvBDKTm0_85SB9WrAxsb 8H-IAAEQFkjjoaDepDzKQ


Also, has anyone used the K&N oil filters, especially since the change to the OEM filter?

Thank you --Pete


HiFlo makes the K&N oil filters. Same filter with red died paper and a higher price (Great marketing angle, customer pays more and is happy about it!).

HiFlo (and therefore K&N) do not yet carry the longer Transmission oil filters. I've been working with HiFlo toward that end. I hope to have them soon but I have not been given a date.

[Bad Dog6]

Thought you folks may be interested in this article.

Article by Dan Peterson Vice President of Technical Development at AMSOIL


One of the sure signs of summer is the abundance of motorcycles operating on the roads of North America. And it seems like that there are more motorcycles than ever on the highways and byways, thats because, there are in 2012, nearly 9.5 million motorcycles where registered in the U.S. alone. That figure has grown by more than 47% since 2002, when the total was slightly more than 5 million. Motorcycle culture and the thrill of the pen road bring thousands of new riders and enthusiasts into the hobby every year. Although many “gear heads” love working on their bikes, few want to be doing repairs or experiencing down time from riding that could be prevented by basic maintenance. As with any vehicle powered by an internal combustion engine, proper lubrication is essential to ensure performance and longevity.


In the past, it was common for motorcycles to run on engine oils designed for four-stroke automobile engines. And if you spend anytime on online motorcycle forums, you’ll see plenty of folks still advocating the use of automotive oil for motorcycles. What is their rationale? there looking to save a couple of bucks on a quart of oil, as the majority oils blended specifically for motorcycle applications are more expensive per quart than their automotive counterparts. But is using auto oil in your motorcycle a good practice?


There are several reasons why motorcycle oils are better for your bike than automotive oils.


Motorcycles have fundamentally different lubrication requirements than automobiles. This is due primarily to differences in both engine design and vehicle applications. Motorcycles often operate under more severe conditions than passenger cars. They usually run faster, are air-cooled and share an oil sump between the engine, clutches and gears. The oil, therefore, must lubricate not only the engine, but the transmission and, in the case of wet clutch motorcycles, the clutches too. Many automotive oils, because of fuel economy requirements, are now formulated with friction modifiers. In a motorcycle with a wet clutch, these additives cause clutch slip and power loss.


Operating habits are different too. While many of us rely on a car or truck for year-round day-to-day transportation and for longer road trips, motorcycles are often ridden seasonally, on weekends or on shorter trips. These trips often occur during warm summer weather, when the cooling system has to work even harder. Thus,a motorcycle lubricant must protect against hi temperature and high engine rpm while providing smooth wet-clutch operation and protecting gears and chains from operational pressure extremes. Because of these factors, many motorcycle oils are engineered with high viscosity to help prevent gear pitting, oil burn-off and oil consumption.


Retaining that viscosity is critical to ensure components remain protected. The hi rpm and shared oil sumps common to motorcycles create an environment, in fact, transmission sets are the leading cause of shear-induced viscosity loss in motorcycle applications. The oil’s shear-stability and viscosity retention are vital for protecting motorcycles.


Additionally, motorcycles are often stored for several months during winter, a time when condensation can cause rust, which accelerates wear and can damage engine components. Rust is also a problem inherent to the shorter drive times motorcycles often endure. If not combated, rust can cause bearing corrosion which results in vibration, noise, increased temperatures and catastrophic failure. Effective motorcycle oils must include rust inhibitors to keep engines and components free from corrosion.


Motorcycle oils must also prevent foam from forming, which happens when air enters the lubricating oil during normal engine and transmission operation. Foam bubbles entering a lubricated area take the place of the lubricant film and compress easily, leading to metal-to-metal contact. Foam also promotes increased oxidation because more or the oil’s surface area is exposed to oxygen. An oil’s tendency to foam should be considered when selecting an oil for your motorcycle.


For many riders, motorcycles represent significant investments of thousands of dollars. It only makes sense to protect those investments with products tailored to address their specific lubrication requirements.

[Dragonrider]

I ran standard dino oil for the first 1500 miles, and two oil changes, then switched to Mobile 1 V-twin full synth. The Spyder runs well, but eats a quart every 1,000 miles….

[gypsy_100]

...then switched to Mobile 1 V-twin full synth.

Do you have a reason for running V-Twin? That's 20W-50. The BRP stuff and the manual recommendations are 5W-40. Amsoil is available in 10W-40. Mobil 1 Racing 4T is also 10W-40.

Also note that both Mobil 1 oils meet the JASO MA spec for good wet clutch performance. However, Amsoil meets the tougher JASO MA2 spec for even better wet clutch performance. If you find your clutch slipping at all with the Mobil, you might want to try an oil that meets JASO MA2. There are others besides Amsoil if you're not an Amsoil fan.

[BajaRon]

Do you have a reason for running V-Twin? That's 20W-50. The BRP stuff and the manual recommendations are 5W-40. Amsoil is available in 10W-40. Mobil 1 Racing 4T is also 10W-40.

Also note that both Mobil 1 oils meet the JASO MA spec for good wet clutch performance. However, Amsoil meets the tougher JASO MA2 spec for even better wet clutch performance. If you find your clutch slipping at all with the Mobil, you might want to try an oil that meets JASO MA2. There are others besides Amsoil if you're not an Amsoil fan.

Some feel that thicker oil is better. 20w-50 will actually not work as well in the Spyder as the lighter 10w-40 (or 5w-40) oil. Your Spyder will run hotter with 20w-50 and will usually burn more oil too. Sounds counterintuitive, I know. But your oil ring has more trouble squeegee-ing off the thicker oil in a high RPM engine. More oil stays on the cylinder above the piston and it gets burned away. Tends to carbon up your cylinder as well. There are some great articles out there regarding this.

What you really want is the thinnest oil you can get that still does the job, taking into consideration that all oils will lose viscosity and lubrication effectivness with useage. Better oils maintain their viscosity and effectivness longer than lesser oils. Thinner oil actually lubricates better (as long as it isn't TOO thin), cools better, circulates better, etc.

Although BRP originally recommended their synthetic 5w-40 for the Spyder. They now recommend their blended oil which is 10w-40 (though it does not give any viscosity information on the container).


Ron, what were the numbers for the Viscosity (@100c) and for the Base Number?

They don't give you viscosity, they give you the Viscosity Index Number. I'm sure you know that is because viscosity has a spread so one 40 weight oil isn't necessarily going to be the same weight as another 40 weight oil. It's not really as confusing as it may sound.

Think of it as 40 weight, 41 weight, 42 weight through to 50 weight. They don't want to mess with breaking it down that far so any weight oil that is at least 40 and less than 50 is considered 40 weight.

Do you ever notice that true, Group IV base synthetic oils like Amsoil seem to be thinner than the same weighted dyno or sudo-synthetic oil when you poor it out of the can/bottle/whatever? Well, that is because true full synthetic oils don't break down like the other oils do so they can run closer to the actual spec. The manufacturer of a lesser oil knows that their product is going to break down faster. So they need to run it closer to the thicker end of the scale to start so that it doesn't fall below the minimum during use.

But for testing, you DO want to break things down into finer increments. So they use the Viscosity Index Number instead of the broad 'Viscosity Weight' numbers. So for this oil analysis, you want to compare the original Viscosity Index Number with the tested oil's number. This is a much more accurate way of knowing how much the oil degraded during use.

40 weight oil VIN goes from 12.5 (thinner) to 16.3 (thicker). So as you can see, if the report gave just the viscosity weight it would say 40. But what does that really tell you except that your oil is still within original spec. It won't tell you how much degredation occurred or how close to being out of spec the used oil is.

The original VIN for this oil is 13.8. My test result was 13.3. So I lost .5 VIN in 6,400 miles. The goal here is to stay at or above 12.5 so my reading is very good.

The original Base Number for this oil is 11.1. My test result was 7.40. The goal here is to stay at or above 50% of the original value (which would be just over 5.5) so again, good to go.


Thanks Ron, I have talked to you a couple of times, and you have sold me, on my next change, hope to see ya at SPYDERFEST 3.

You just can't beat Spyderfest and I do plan to be there. But aren't we going for #4?

[IWN2RYD]

Good point. As far as I know, Amsoil does not do any 'For Sale' in house testing. They use Oil Analyzers, Inc. which is marketed as a subsidiary of Amsoil, Inc. However, the laboratory physical addresses for Oil Analyzers, Inc. and Polaris Laboratories are the same, (Indianapolis, Houston, Salt Lake City, Edmonton), so they are also marketed as an independent company as well.

The lab is ISO accredited so they have to meet the strict testing/reporting guidelines required for that. They're not going to be able to fudge numbers and keep that ISO status. They test all kinds and brands of oil just like the other oil testing companies out there.

I think you can trust their analysis. It would be too easy to verify the results for them to want to mess with the data.

I also sent in a sample from another Spyder and it didn't come back so good.



Thank you for your response. That helps me feel very good about the testing actually. I used to send samples before buying vehicles, or for our plane. Spendy, but worth knowing just what is going on as we cannot really tell by just the coloring of the oil... :doorag:

[BajaRon]

Thank you for your response. That helps me feel very good about the testing actually. I used to send samples before buying vehicles, or for our plane. Spendy, but worth knowing just what is going on as we cannot really tell by just the coloring of the oil... :doorag:

No, you can't tell by color or even how it pours unless it's REALLY BAD.

One dissappointment I had in this test was that no particulate reading was given. After looking into this I believe that is an additional test proceedure which costs more money. I want to do this next time as it will tell me how well my filter is working.

I had a bit more fuel contamination than I'd like. It was in the 'Normal' range but at the upper end. I'm running a JB and I may have it set a bit too rich.

[ulflyer]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

Ron, thanks for the info on the Viscosity index. For those of you who like to get some idea of what the oil has sheared down to, you can use the above chart. Your VI of 13+ is outstanding, showing the oil was still in the lower end of 40W or high upper 30W.

I've just sent off a sample of Valvoline 10-40 motorcycle oil, rated MA2, with 3000 miles on it to see how it fares. I'm using prepaid Wix sample containers that you can find by searching the internet. They use a lab called ALS Tribology. Search a lot as prices of these prepaid sample containers vary a lot. I found some for about $8 each.

[BajaRon]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

Ron, thanks for the info on the Viscosity index. For those of you who like to get some idea of what the oil has sheared down to, you can use the above chart. Your VI of 13+ is outstanding, showing the oil was still in the lower end of 40W or high upper 30W.

I've just sent off a sample of Valvoline 10-40 motorcycle oil, rated MA2, with 3000 miles on it to see how it fares. I'm using prepaid Wix sample containers that you can find by searching the internet. They use a lab called ALS Tribology. Search a lot as prices of these prepaid sample containers vary a lot. I found some for about $8 each.

I have not done a lot of testing so I am not sure. But I'm wondering if price has something to do with the quality and amount of information performed in the testing. $8 is definitly very cheap even if you add in shipping costs.

[gypsy_100]

[QUOTE=BajaRon;521785]Some feel that thicker oil is better. 20w-50 will actually not work as well in the Spyder as the lighter 10w-40 (or 5w-40) oil. Your Spyder will run hotter with 20w-50 and will usually burn more oil too. Sounds counterintuitive, I know. But your oil ring has more trouble squeegee-ing off the thicker oil in a high RPM engine. More oil stays on the cylinder above the piston and it gets burned away. Tends to carbon up your cylinder as well. There are some great articles out there regarding this.

I agree that 10W-40 (or 5W-40) is the oil of choice for our Rotax engines. I was merely trying to find out why someone felt the need to switch to 20W-50. For curiosity's sake.

They don't give you viscosity, they give you the Viscosity Index Number. I'm sure you know that is because viscosity has a spread so one 40 weight oil isn't necessarily going to be the same weight as another 40 weight oil. It's not really as confusing as it may sound.

Think of it as 40 weight, 41 weight, 42 weight through to 50 weight. They don't want to mess with breaking it down that far so any weight oil that is at least 40 and less than 50 is considered 40 weight.


But for testing, you DO want to break things down into finer increments. So they use the Viscosity Index Number instead of the broad 'Viscosity Weight' numbers. So for this oil analysis, you want to compare the original Viscosity Index Number with the tested oil's number. This is a much more accurate way of knowing how much the oil degraded during use.

40 weight oil VIN goes from 12.5 (thinner) to 16.3 (thicker). So as you can see, if the report gave just the viscosity weight it would say 40. But what does that really tell you except that your oil is still within original spec. It won't tell you how much degredation occurred or how close to being out of spec the used oil is.

The original VIN for this oil is 13.8. My test result was 13.3. So I lost .5 VIN in 6,400 miles. The goal here is to stay at or above 12.5 so my reading is very good.

Not quite correct. The Viscosity Index Number is a measurement of how well the viscosity is stable over a temperature range. To quote: "The viscosity index (V.I.) of an oil is a number that indicates the effect of temperature changes on the viscosity of the oil. A low V.I.
signifies a relatively large change of viscosity with changes of temperature.
In other words, the oil becomes extremely thin at high temperatures and extremely thick
at low temperatures. On the other hand, a high V.I. signifies relatively little change in
viscosity over a wide temperature range."

The numbers you are quoting (12.5, 13.3, 13.8, etc) are the actual laboratory-determined viscosities for the oil samples, the units of the number being centistokes (cSt). For the high-temperature viscosity (the "30" or the "40"), the viscosity is measured at 100C or 212F temperature. So on your oil they measured 13.3 cSt at 100C. That is the actual viscosity of your oil at that temperature. Now, where does that actual viscosity fit in the scheme of things? For a "40-weight" oil as defined by SAE and API, the viscosity at 100C must be between 12.6 and 16.3 cSt as you stated. Your oil is still within that range so it is still performing at 40-weight levels. Very good. FYI, I submitted an Amsoil 10W-40 sample after some miles that came back as 12.06 cSt, just below the minimum of the 40-weight range. Still pretty good in my opinion but technically it was now at the top end of the 30-weight range (9.3-12.5 cSt). As for where it started out, Amsoil states that their 10W-40 is typically 13.8 but that doesn't mean every batch leaves their plant with that number. Could be more or less. We should all thank Amsoil for being willing to publish their "typical" numbers. Try to find that out for other oils!

As for VIN, that's something different, as explained above. Now, pure synthetics like Amsoil and Mobil 1 are known to have a high viscosity index, that is they change less with temperature. Lesser-quality oils tend to thin out with temperature and therefore have a lower viscosity at higher temperatures in their native state so the manufacturers add viscosity index improvers to the mix to improve the VIN. With good synthetics, there are fewer, if any, viscosity index improvers added to the mix. Intuitively, the fewer additives the better. At least as far as I'm concerned.

The original Base Number for this oil is 11.1. My test result was 7.40. The goal here is to stay at or above 50% of the original value (which would be just over 5.5) so again, good to go.

The Base Number, or Total Base Number (TBN) is a measure of the additives in the oil that are preventing acid formation and nasty things like that. Again, the 11.1 is "typical" of Amsoil but may not reflect precisely an actual oil that you received. There's no doubt that your 7.40 is a very good reading, however. In the sample I referenced above, my TBN had gone down to 6.1, still very good. Again, I thank Amsoil for giving us an idea ("typical") of where we started out, 11.1 in this case.

Bottom line -- I, too, was very pleased with my Amsoil test results. My sample was run at a different lab than you used and one that is not associated in any way with Amsoil. But we both got good results and that's what counts!

Is everyone awake??

[ulflyer]

I have not done a lot of testing so I am not sure. But I'm wondering if price has something to do with the quality and amount of information performed in the testing. $8 is definitly very cheap even if you add in shipping costs.

I've used the Wix several times and thier lab reports are similar to those of Blackstone, both in quality and content. Both are used in the auto world and seem to me about equal. Blackstone sends you free sample kits and you pay when you mail in a sample (last time I used them last year it was under $25 not counting shipping; Wix kits are prepaid and can be found from various vendors from (currently) $10 to $20. Heres one I just found for $10+
:http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0014BEMVW/ref=asc_df_B0014BEMVW2196824?smid=A1JWXPHBTYQL1K&tag=shopzilla_mp_1046-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B0014BEMVW

You might get flak from your mail clerk who might say you can't ship oil. It isn't true, but you can't convince them. when asked if its "liquid, fragile, hazardous, etc, etc" I say no. I've found it best to put the kit in a brown shipping envelope. Doesn't raise eyebrows like the small container does, and also is less likely to get lost. If this bit of subterfuge bothers you, send it UPS or Fedex.

[bobnaquin]

You can purchase a kit here - http://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?GroupID=683

Or you can order them through me for $31.00 per kit - delivered. It's usually about a $4.00 savings.

This is for the postage paid kit.

I like what you have done and I buy my oil and filters from you. i inted to continue to do so since you do all of the due diligence on your products. Having Amsoil check their own oil is a bit suspect. Better would be to have a disinterested third party do it. I intend to do that and I will share the results with you.

As an aside; big recreational boats have fairly large diesel engines carrying 8 GALLONS of oil per side. Changing and disposing of this much oil is expensive. I have a freind who sends a sample in every year and if the results are good, and they always are, he changes the filters and runs it another year. Oil in this application tends not to wear out but only get dirty. I know it is apples to oranges but I thought I would share a different perspective and apologize in advance if this somehow hijacks this thread.