Give me a brake part 2

[Lamonster]

Well I solved the one problem I had with the first way I did it and ran into other issues that I didn't expect. ::) I went and delete that that post because I don't want anyone heading in the wrong direction on that. I was getting some tweak in the clevis that wasn't good so now I'm not attached to the clevis, just the pin. I'll post pictures when I'm done but the bracket I have on there now looks like swiss cheese so I'll make a new one and show you what I wound up with.

I did find out that you're only going to get so much brake before the cable starts to stretch. I'm going to try a Barnett cable and see if I can get a little more pull out of it but I don't think you will ever get 100% using a cable.

This is a trial and error deal so I've found out about 6 ways not to do it now without damaging anything so I'm doing good so far. ;D

[matusky]

are you still going for the 45deg angle so the pedal still has the ability to flex the cable when you step down on it?

[Cookie]

Lamonster.
I sent a reply at the end of your last post, so i'll try sending some of it again!

I have been quietly planning a lever system for my Spyder, when i get it - maybe next month?
Have been following your modifications with interest and would like to add my thoughts to your efforts. It has been previously mentioned: what happens to the cable when the foot brake is applied - does it bend the cable or does it push the cable and send the fr/b lever free & limp?

If some sort of sliding connector and spring were attached to the end of the cable it could make the fr/b lever seem to operate normally. ie: it would allow the foot brake to operate independantly and not affect the cable. With hill starts, the fr/brake lever would spring back!

I've drawn up a sketch of a sliding connection system which i will try on my Spyder when i get the chance. I'll try to send it again!
Cookie
Brisbane, Australia.

http://file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Ken/My%20Documents/spyder/sliding%20conn-150k.jpg

[Cookie]

Cannot seem to get the pic sent. How can i get it to you another way?

[Lamonster]

Cannot seem to get the pic sent. How can i get it to you another way?


It needs to be loaded on the web to post here, not your hard drive. I really like www.putfile.com for that, and it's free.

The cable slack when applying the foot brake is not a real problem. The problem I have is you only have about a 1/2" of pull in the cable so you need to have the cable attach as close to the pivot point to get enough throw to apply the brakes. I have that now and it could still be better but the new problem is the cable will stretch before you can apply any good pressure. There is a fine line between leverage and throw and that's why my bracket looks like swiss cheese. ::)

For me it's better than nothing at this point but I wouldn't count on it as my only brake as some of the handicap guys are thinking about. The guy that talked about adding two now calipers might be heading in the right direction but that's still not going to help the guys who can't use there feet. :(

[LittleJohn]

It needs to be loaded on the web to post here, not your hard drive. I really like www.putfile.com for that, and it's free.

The cable slack when applying the foot brake is not a real problem. The problem I have is you only have about a 1/2" of pull in the cable so you need to have the cable attach as close to the pivot point to get enough throw to apply the brakes. I have that now and it could still be better but the new problem is the cable will stretch before you can apply any good pressure. There is a fine line between leverage and throw and that's why my bracket looks like swiss cheese. ::)

For me it's better than nothing at this point but I wouldn't count on it as my only brake as some of the handicap guys are thinking about. The guy that talked about adding two now calipers might be heading in the right direction but that's still not going to help the guys who can't use there feet. :(

amont,
The next time youve got a good shot at it, could you snap a few pics of the brake master cylinder please?
The thought I have in my mind (as Ive not seen the setup in person yet) is to try to replace the "input" of hydraulic pressure from the foot system to a hand operated master cylinder if it can be done. This would replace rather than augment the foot brake, but if it can tie in before the ABS/VSCS system it should operated seemlessly.
This looks like my best option, as I just found out yesterday that after Im all healed up I will have little to no functional ankle movement.
Thanks for all your efforts and the sharing of info on here.!!!!! :bigthumbsup:

[Lamonster]

amont,
The next time youve got a good shot at it, could you snap a few pics of the brake master cylinder please?
The thought I have in my mind (as Ive not seen the setup in person yet) is to try to replace the "input" of hydraulic pressure from the foot system to a hand operated master cylinder if it can be done. This would replace rather than augment the foot brake, but if it can tie in before the ABS/VSCS system it should operated seemlessly.
This looks like my best option, as I just found out yesterday that after Im all healed up I will have little to no functional ankle movement.
Thanks for all your efforts and the sharing of info on here.!!!!! :bigthumbsup:


I'm sorry to hear that Bro. This is another reason why BRP should add a hand brake, for guys and gals like you. I'm sure there are a bunch of potential buyers out there that would jump on the Spyder in a heartbeat if they didn't have to use their feet.

The brake master cylinder is so covered up I really can't get a good shot of it. I did read on another board that a guy is doing what you're talking about. His first attempt had some issues but I think the guy is going to get it done. :doorag:

[LittleJohn]

I'm sorry to hear that Bro. This is another reason why BRP should add a hand brake, for guys and gals like you. I'm sure there are a bunch of potential buyers out there that would jump on the Spyder in a heartbeat if they didn't have to use their feet.

The brake master cylinder is so covered up I really can't get a good shot of it. I did read on another board that a guy is doing what you're talking about. His first attempt had some issues but I think the guy is going to get it done. :doorag:


Thanks
I understand about buried parts...LOL I had an ST1300 and it was completekly covered in tupperware. Ill nose around on the other boards and see what I can see.
Thanks again. Ill be around!

[Magic Man]

Wow it is too weird that you put this post up just yesterday! I too took your advice and welded the arm to my clevis just yesterday. I immediately noticed the tweeking of the pin and changed it. I removed the whole pedal arm and welded a new arm to the pedal pivot point on the outside edge. Now there is no more flex in the pin as I am pulling on the pedal and there is no twisting more force. I am having the same problem you are with the lame power from this set up. I believe it is not so much cable flex (as there is such a light pull in this set up) I don't think the cable is streaching under this light a load, as most clutches pull harder than this. It is not cable strech I fear but the amount of travel this long arm makes uses up the cable throw and the lever hits the bar before enough movement has been made at the piviot point to fully apply the brakes. Also the return spring in the master cylinder is so light it will not allow you to "load up" the cable to pre-load it before the master cylinder pistonn moves. I am trying to find a lower point on the arm to mount the cable which will result in more brake actuation before all the lever travel is used up. I'll post any good news I find.

Ev

[Lamonster]

Wow it is too weird that you put this post up just yesterday! I too took your advice and welded the arm to my clevis just yesterday. I immediately noticed the tweeking of the pin and changed it. I removed the whole pedal arm and welded a new arm to the pedal pivot point on the outside edge. Now there is no more flex in the pin as I am pulling on the pedal and there is no twisting more force. I am having the same problem you are with the lame power from this set up. I believe it is not so much cable flex (as there is such a light pull in this set up) I don't think the cable is streaching under this light a load, as most clutches pull harder than this. It is not cable strech I fear but the amount of travel this long arm makes uses up the cable throw and the lever hits the bar before enough movement has been made at the piviot point to fully apply the brakes. Also the return spring in the master cylinder is so light it will not allow you to "load up" the cable to pre-load it before the master cylinder pistonn moves. I am trying to find a lower point on the arm to mount the cable which will result in more brake actuation before all the lever travel is used up. I'll post any good news I find.

Ev


Sorry about the bad info in my first post. :redfaced:

On my bike when the peddle stops moving I can still pull the lever so something is giving and the only thing I can't see is the cable. The pull is real easy too but my spring is returning the peddle. I hope one of us figures this thing out. ;) Good luck Bro :doorag:

[Lamonster]

Well I got it all hooked up again and it's working pretty good. I'm going to change the top bracket so I have a straiter pull but other than that I'm done. :doorag:

These are the parts I made to attach the cable.

:click:
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/1/1413515685.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7492626)

This is the bracket attached to the brake arm. It is no longer welded and the bracket is locked in so there is no movement or stress on the clevis as before. :redfaced:
:click:
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/1/1413540851.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7492640)

The cable is installed and the cable keeper bolts are in with spacer washers for the cable.
:click:
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/1/1413540895.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7492641)

This picture looks like it's just pulling up but the bracket is angled back so it is pulling back.
:click:
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/1/1413540829.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7492642)

[aubierules]

thanks Lamon, from our local handi representative...ME! ;D
I still have awhile till I get mine, so Im sure you'll have all the KINKS (pun intended) out...

[tfjunkie]

Try using more cable keepers and outer cable housing adjusters.

With juice brakes the force exerted is lost or absorbed when the lines flex or expand...(rubber vs steel braid)

With cable its a matter of stretch vs a some what loss do to the cable housings make up or in some cases due to the routeing.....a whip like effect.


Keep up the good work you mad modr fabr!

[Lamonster]

Try using more cable keepers and outer cable housing adjusters.

With juice brakes the force exerted is lost or absorbed when the lines flex or expand...(rubber vs steel braid)

With cable its a matter of stretch vs a some what loss do to the cable housings make up or in some cases due to the routeing.....a whip like effect.


Keep up the good work you mad modr fabr!


I think a Barnett cable is going to give me a little better pull too. I told you I was going to have a hand brake. ;D ;)

[tfjunkie]

I never doubted you!!!!
Now i want hwy pegs and front brakes.

I think you dumped it as i was posting ....

Most courses teach that 70% of mc stopping relys on front brakes.......go figure.

Maybe the company is saving that for the touring models.

Have you been able to make it dragon friendly yet?

[Lamonster]

Have you been able to make it dragon friendly yet?


Not yet but I will be working on that. :doorag: