2013 ST thoughts from a RS riders perspective

[arntufun]

After reading and viewing all that has been posted regarding the new ST model I have somewhat mixed feelings.

First and most important to some is, Ibelieve this model falls flat on it's face for the passenger. Adding floorboards is about the only difference I see for the passenger and you would still have to purchase separately the sport rack and backrest (extra $600+). I can't find any info if the passenger will have heated grips back there or not, so I'm just assuming not.

Secondly, the new driver foot position puts the drivers foot closer to the heat and the brake lever right behind the radiator. I hope this heat issue was addressed with this design or those interested in this model are in for some serious hot foot.

Third, The windshield on this new model is about as useless as the sport/touring windshield that is available for the RS. It really wont help you much even when raised all the way up unless a bigger one is offered at an obvious extra cost.

I'm not at all impressed with the handlebar design similar to the RT. That was one of the things I most hated about the RT and now they go and put the design on this. Although, I love the looks of the new mirror style, it looks like it will have the same issue as the others of most of the mirror reflection will be of your knuckles. Less HP was also an idiotic move in the evolution of all the Spyders models from a RS riders perspective.


Now the good !!!!

I really love the new look of the front end of this bad boy. The RT style lights and mirrors on this is a home run. :thumbup: The new fender style is also an improvement to the current design.

BRP really did a awesome job slapping floorboards on this puppy. I'm thinking the seat should be more comfy than the current RS, I'm awaiting a butt test to confirm. Cruise Control and I-pod hook up made this RS rider very happy with this addition. :ohyea:Also the RT looking dash display is also a hit with me. I'm taking Lamont's word for it about the handling and the improved suspension, but it seems that it is going to be a plus.


Overall I think the ST is a great middle of the road model to the Spyder line up so I'm hoping these new machines will attract others to consider the Spyder. Not bad BRP....... Not bad, just please work out any bugs prior to release. :thumbup:

[Lamonster]

If you want passenger comfort get an RT. I plan on keeping an RT for riding with the wife and a ST for me.

The windshield works quite well and is far from "useless". My first test drive was in the dead of winter and we would swap from all three models so we could compare them to each other. The RS was the worst one to drive because it was just too cold without the bigger windshield. The ST did great and had great wind protection and the console is higher so there's more protection from it too. The windshield could not be adjusted while moving but it was easy to adjust when stopped without the use on any tools. We all tried different heights and on that day all the way up was good.

Heat on the foot would have been great that day but there wasn't any I noticed and the last ride I took it was a warm day and there was no heat issues.

Loved the heated grips on the ST, that was a BIG plus on the first ride.

I would talk about the other issues you bring up in detail but you go into a lot of detail from looking at pictures and I'm going by riding it for several hours. I think it would be wise to do that before you give it such harsh criticism, you may just love it.

[FaranH]

I rode the ST for several hours and just thought I'd give a quick response to your post, for what it's worth ;)



Secondly, the new driver foot position puts the drivers foot closer to the heat and the brake lever right behind the radiator. I hope this heat issue was addressed with this design or those interested in this model are in for some serious hot foot.

NO heat issues at all. BRP seems to have finally taken care of this. Forward foot position was completely comfortable.

Third, The windshield on this new model is about as useless as the sport/touring windshield that is available for the RS. It really wont help you much even when raised all the way up unless a bigger one is offered at an obvious extra cost.

The shape of this windshield seems to do something that height otherwise takes care of in previous models. I found it just right in the all the way up position and was really happy with the wind control and lack of buffeting. It is not just the old-style shield now made adjustable.


BRP really did a awesome job slapping floorboards on this puppy. I'm thinking the seat should be more comfy than the current RS, I'm awaiting a butt test to confirm.
Seat is totally new and very comfortable. It's a flatter shape, which I wasn't sure I'd like for more sporty riding, but I liked it a lot. Very comfortable (of course, I've had nothing but the stock RS seat for a year and a half now, so anything is an improvement!)

[Jimmy Neutron]

I rode the ST for several hours and just thought I'd give a quick response to your post, for what it's worth ;)

Thanks for bothe of the postive responses. I have a 2012 RSS and I Want a ST putting a forsale sign now.. Hope that the back rest will fit from RSS but it is what it is.. Think I will do the STS instead of limited.. Not crazy about color choices but I have Neutron Green now so guess Anything is a Step down LOL. And Thanks Lamont for always answering my questions.. You seem like a good guy..

[Bob Denman]

Let's face it Randy; that PE is getting a bit long in the tooth...

[WackyDan]

I'm logically keeping the 08 GS until the BEST warranty is out in April of 2014 and even then I'll probably wait for the 2015 announcements later that year.

As far as the ST series is concerned. I dig it.. Would love cruise control though I've gotten by without it. I love that new Garnet color... though I thought I would paint my next spyder right out of the box...

So ultimately... I have time to wait and see what little refinements they bring in 2014 and 2015 models and perhaps... just maybe by then I'll get more power and selectable VSS.

As a final note... The prices keep spiraling up. I bought my GS with top and side cases new in 09 for 18k out the door which for a motorcycle in my book - was pricey. Can I afford over 20k on a new model? Yes, but at that price the spyder isn't a toy anymore... Nor is my GS... but my riding is primarily touring and work keeps that to a minimum. YES... these are all my problems and have nothing to do with the ST per say... But hard choices for your friendly neighborhood WackyDan in the future. :p Maybe the wife can stretch her car to 15 years? LOL.

[flamingobabe]

Third, The windshield on this new model is about as useless as the sport/touring windshield that is available for the RS. It really wont help you much even when raised all the way up unless a bigger one is offered at an obvious extra cost.

you're saying the 25" shield is useless....I purchased that shield along with the wind deflectors and I sit in a dead air space...if I want more air...lean out or up or take the deflectors off...love my shield...have you use the 25" shield?

as far as the new ST is concerned....love the look...

[Bob Denman]

Faran,
Regarding the 2013 RTs; There's a lot of folks who are curious if the excessive heat issue still exists... Did you notice any improvement?
Thanks! :thumbup:

[pro10is]

I'm a little baffled at some of the harsh criticism being leveled at the new ST, not just from Randy (at least his critique was well balanced), but from a number of people here. The dust has yet to settle on the announcement and yet strong negative opinions are being thrown around. Let's be fair, other than the lucky few who have had a chance to actually test it, no one else is, as of yet, qualified to offer a full fair and accurate review.

What's probably tainting the view is our preconceived notions, expectations, and perhaps some unfounded rumors. Rather than viewing it on false expectations, I try to look at the new lineup with fresh eyes as if I were a new customer. What I'd see from this perspective is a very well balanced offering. There's the RS with full emphasis on sport riding, the RT with major emphasis on comfort and touring, and the ST with a great mix of both. Indeed I wish I was a new buyer, I would have picked the ST right off as it has a near perfect balance of what I want. The RT is just far too touring oriented for me and the RS is too exposed and uncomfortable for what I wanted. I wanted something sporty but reasonably comfortable so what I had to do, like so many others, was to retrofit the RS for better comfort. Now the ST does that for you. Judging from the majority of RS owners here who have added risers, larger windshield, floorboards, etc., I think the ST design is right on the money. Now you have your own model where you don't have to give up sportiness for better comfort. Plus there are so many additional extras.

Think about it, you get:


A fully integrated windshield/cowl system, far better than anything you can currently get for the RS, offering great OEM wind protection without ruining the looks.
Better lighting
Better mirrors
An OEM solution for a comfortable upright riding position
Improved styling
15" front wheels
Low profile tires
New exciting wheel stylings
OEM approved trailering
A more comfortable stock seat
Incredible new Brembo brakes
Fly by wire throttle control
Next generation Bosch electronics
Options for:

Cruise control
An audio system (finally!)
Driver floorboards
Zumo GPS
Thermal grips




Now, if all that wasn't enough, add in the new, improved sway bar, shocks, brakes, and a redesigned steering geometry that Lamont says improves handling far better than even high performance modified previous models (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?44615-The-new-2013-Spyder-RT-ST-and-RS&highlight=geometry) and you've got a major winner.

I'm predicting that, in time, the ST has a great shot at becoming the predominant model.

[MidLifeCrisis]

NO heat issues at all. BRP seems to have finally taken care of this. Forward foot position was completely comfortable.

Any idea what was done? I'm assuming you rode the RT with the same conclusion?

[Kratos]

I'm a little baffled at some of the harsh criticism being leveled at the new ST, not just from Randy (at least his critique was well balanced), but from a number of people here. The dust has yet to settle on the announcement and yet strong negative opinions are being thrown around. Let's be fair, other than the lucky few who have had a chance to actually test it, no one else is, as of yet, qualified to offer a full fair and accurate review.

What's probably tainting the view is our preconceived notions, expectations, and perhaps some unfounded rumors. Rather than viewing it on false expectations, I try to look at the new lineup with fresh eyes as if I were a new customer. What I'd see from this perspective is a very well balanced offering. There's the RS with full emphasis on sport riding, the RT with major emphasis on comfort and touring, and the ST with a great mix of both. Indeed I wish I was a new buyer, I would have picked the ST right off as it has a near perfect balance of what I want. The RT is just far too touring oriented for me and the RS is too exposed and uncomfortable for what I wanted. I wanted something sporty but reasonably comfortable so what I had to do, like so many others, was to retrofit the RS for better comfort. Now the ST does that for you. Judging from the majority of RS owners here who have added risers, larger windshield, floorboards, etc., I think the ST design is right on the money. Now you have your own model where you don't have to give up sportiness for better comfort. Plus there are so many additional extras.

Think about it, you get:


A fully integrated windshield/cowl system, far better than anything you can currently get for the RS, offering great OEM wind protection without ruining the looks.
Better lighting
Better mirrors
An OEM solution for a comfortable upright riding position
Improved styling
15" front wheels
Low profile tires
New exciting wheel stylings
OEM approved trailering
A more comfortable stock seat
Incredible new Brembo brakes
Fly by wire throttle control
Next generation Bosch electronics
Options for:

Cruise control
An audio system (finally!)
Driver floorboards
Zumo GPS
Thermal grips




Now, if all that wasn't enough, add in the new, improved sway bar, shocks, brakes, and a redesigned steering geometry that Lamont says improves handling far better than even high performance modified previous models (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?44615-The-new-2013-Spyder-RT-ST-and-RS&highlight=geometry) and you've got a major winner.

I'm predicting that, in time, the ST has a great shot at becoming the predominant model.


I agree. Most of the negative comments are stemming from hyped up expectations by the "CONSUMER" not being met by BRP. So the backlash is to attack what was released as way to show that disappointment.

Most of these negative comments are definitely not legit.

[FaranH]

Faran,
Regarding the 2013 RTs; There's a lot of folks who are curious if the excessive heat issue still exists... Did you notice any improvement?
Thanks! :thumbup:

I personally didn't ride the 2013 RT so I can't speak to that. But it would seem odd if they answered that concern for the ST and not for other ones. Maybe Lamont can speak to that one.

[Spydr in KS]

Options for:

Cruise control
An audio system (finally!)
Driver floorboards
Zumo GPS
Thermal grips





Are these really options to any ST or only available depending in which ST model you buy? I think they are model options, not individual options

[Spyder777]

There is nothing sporty about adding weight and taking away horsepower. That is a big No No for many people, whether they already own a Spyder or were looking to buy and have never ridden one.

Also, many people will come on Forums to learn about these vehicles and if BRP does not keep their current customers happy they are less likely to rave about their new purchase.

Third, the pricing structure is wack. Though it benefits us current 2012 owners, $18,500 for an RSS is too much. One Texas dealership is now selling brand new 2012 RSS for $13,899 in an array of colors to choose from. That's almost $5,000 less than a 2013.

but I LOVE the rims on the new RSS!!

[zrc]

In all honesty, I am confused as to why a person cannot have a negative attitude?

I just dont like the initial look, or some of the new tupperware as it will not support older mods, which is fine, but thats only my opinion.

My personal thoughts are that 2 huge concepts have always been engine and ride length. In my personal opinion neither were addressed.

I hope the overall handling is redesigned and better, because immediately replacing shocks or looking for a new sway bar is not awesome when it comes to purchasing something knowing you have to replace it. So I am quite interested in this information. Given that, I think we will still see people change out the shocks for elkas, and even in the RSS pics there are Fox shocks. So this begs the question, would ST shocks (assuming they are part of the re-engineering) fit older models, and if so what would the improvement be? Ditto on the sway bars.

The windshield situtation is just not a big deal to me, I guess it is to others, I already had multiple wind shields and a simple tool to adjust them, so while I respect the idea and like the concept, it doesnt effect me that much.

Unless they are factory HIDs from the word go, I could argue the lights either way, Same with the mirrors, I like my up and outs better, just personally they look more "motorcycle" like and I prefer that. Again my personal preference.

I like the rims, but I am interested to learn more about the physics behind the sudden move to 15s after all the hullabalew about keeping with the original tires for 4 years.

Trailering is the 1 big thing I can think of to be excited about.

I dont have a stock seat nor have ever driven the first mile on one, so this doesnt effect me.

The new brakes look cool, and since I will eventually change mine out, at almost 30k on my stocks and originals I am sure this will be sooner rather than later, I can take advantage of this change, assuming they will fit the "old" wheel housing, which they may not.

I have no idea what fly by wire is, but a lot of people are just huge on it, so I will assume it is a plus.

I am interested in more about the new Bosch stuff and what it means, I would imagine there is a possibility some of the effects are controlled by the main unit and software and some are the actual equipment themselves, so some of this might be coming the existing bikes.

Im not huge on cruise control, audio I do "in helmet", Given that I have a helibar and their Ram mount / power outlet in the center of my handlebars already the gps is similar to mine.

I like the floorboards, and I wouldnt mind having heated grips at some point, but I can survive without them, I have enough crap draining my battery already.

All this being said, I think it is a really neat model, and I think it has a place in the market. That being said when I get ready to buy my second spyder I will be evaluating the ST and RT, but I would be astonished if used RTs dont win out just due to price.

Based on what I see, given engine specs and now 3 bikes 2 with the same central cluster, I believe we will see that cluster migrate to the RS in time. I hope we do NOT lose the RS as an offering, it has its place as well.

My judgement and ideas will lay in what happens in the future with the powerhouses of the bikes, the accessories that compliment them, and how BRP works with existing customers to help old bikes accept technology upgrades as well. I would like to see an RS cluster that is just like the ST and the RT, and it would seem it is completely possible. I have even considered just sticking one on and seeing what happens. But I reckon all the warranties need to be over first.

[aka1004]

I don't like the look and hate the price even more.

[Bob Denman]

Faran,
Thanks! :thumbup: I was trying to leave Lamont some breathing room; he's been busier any four humans ought to be... :shocked: That's why I figured that I'd pick your brain about it a bit. ;)

Pro10is... :agree: If you haven't laid your eyes, paws or butt on it; what are you basing your opinions on? :dontknow:

[arntufun]

Third, The windshield on this new model is about as useless as the sport/touring windshield that is available for the RS. It really wont help you much even when raised all the way up unless a bigger one is offered at an obvious extra cost.

you're saying the 25" shield is useless....I purchased that shield along with the wind deflectors and I sit in a dead air space...if I want more air...lean out or up or take the deflectors off...love my shield...have you use the 25" shield?

as far as the new ST is concerned....love the look...




I said Sport/Touring windshield (which is 14"), and yes it was useless. The ST's shield hieght looks similar to it, hence my opinion towards it. Maybe my opinion will change after a test drive. :thumbup: No, I have not tried a taller one because of my stance on how they look.

I also like the overall look of the ST.

[aka1004]

We can't form our own opinions now???
We can't express our own impressions???
Are we supposed to love whatever all mighty brp produce?
People are not posting reviews, just the impressions of what they see.

[asp125]

It looks like to me that BRP has just copied what RS owners have been doing for years: raising the handlebars, floorboards, new seat, saddle bags, improving the ride etc. They are not breaking new ground here, just emulating where the market for the RS has evolved into. Myself I have added the Givi kit, added handlebar risers, and will address the saddle soon. I already have a touring windshield. When I'm done my RS will basically be an ST, but I would have saved thousands from MSRP. BRP ought to sell a bunch of STs for the not quite ready for an RT segment.

[Bob Denman]

We can't form our own opinions now???
We can't express our own impressions???
People are not posting reviews, just the impressions of what they see.

Oh... Of COURSE you can! :thumbup:

But are you willing to admit that an opinion based solely upon what is seen might be based upon an imcomplete set of facts?

I'm just trying to find some hard data with which to work... ;)

[zrc]

Oh... Of COURSE you can! :thumbup:

But are you willing to admit that an opinion based solely upon what is seen might be based upon an imcomplete set of facts?

I'm just trying to find some hard data with which to work... ;)



Sure, but opinions for the positive are just as based on what is seen. (outside of Lamont and Faran)

[Bob Denman]

:2thumbs: Somebody is catching on... :2thumbs: :roflblack:

BTW... I've only mentioned the adjustable handlebars and lower air deflectors as being on my radar; if they can fit at the right price! :thumbup:

[aka1004]

Oh... Of COURSE you can! :thumbup:

But are you willing to admit that an opinion based solely upon what is seen might be based upon an imcomplete set of facts?

I'm just trying to find some hard data with which to work... ;)

I don't need hard facts to know that I don't like the look of ST nor price tag of $25k. Now If I liked it, I can be flexible on price, of course.
It's just personal preference. No need to get all worked up over other's likes or dislikes or their disappointments.

Like Zrc said, positive opinions are based on same info as what I've seen and read.

[Xendrick]

My first thoughts were that the ST is for Single Touring.

Long term passengers will want to be on the RT.

[zrc]

My first thoughts were that the ST is for Single Touring.

Long term passengers will want to be on the RT.

:agree: RT back seat is the bomb diggity for the passenger.

[Jeriatric]

I rode the ST for several hours and just thought I'd give a quick response to your post, for what it's worth ;)

NO heat issues at all. BRP seems to have finally taken care of this. Forward foot position was completely comfortable.

What ambient temprature was this test conducted in?

[arntufun]

My first thoughts were that the ST is for Single Touring.

Long term passengers will want to be on the RT.



Excactly........... With my original post I was only pointing out the shortcoming for anyone that thinks they can tour with a passenger on this model. They should of atleast put heated grips back there and come standard with a sportrack and backrest because not all owners live in the south and ride alone.

I agree this model seems perfect for a single rider going long distance but stand firm on my original opinion for the passenger.

[vtrider]

I think the new ST will be a great hit for spyder riders like myself looking to stay on something a little more sporty than an RT, but have some of the comfort features added in. It's a model that I know I will certainly take for a test drive once my dealer has one to drive. They let me test ride most everything that I have an interest in, so I'm looking forward to it.

[shelbydave]

Looking at the mods that I've seen on quite a few of the RS's, I think they hit a home run with the ST. It looks like it has much of the RS with the more upright seating position. Then add the suspension changes that were mentioned, and I think there is definately a target group out there that will eat it up. For me, I like the RT... If I were 30 years younger, and Single, it would be a difficult choice between the RS or the ST.
As for horsepower... I can understand why the RS crowd would like to see more, for me, I'm all about enjoying the ride, and scenery, so it's not all that important... I guess I got my "need for speed" out of my system!!!

[Jeriatric]

Oh... Of COURSE you can! :thumbup:

But are you willing to admit that an opinion based solely upon what is seen might be based upon an imcomplete set of facts?

I'm just trying to find some hard data with which to work... ;)


:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

[Spyder777]

It's like they're laughing at us by selling us a sport touring model for $25,000 and not even including the OEM BRP backrest. How can you tour without a backrest for your passenger? You can wear gloves if it's cold, but no backrest at all??? So add dealer fees, taxes, registration and licensing, and $700 plus installation for a backrest.

how do you think the iPhone 5 would have flown over if they raised the price on the cost of their new model?

[shelbydave]

I thought I saw somewhere that the ST was starting at 18000 to 19000... Right in the middle...:dontknow:

[Saluda]

I like what I see. Tough audience !

[Sarge707]

The base ST is aroud 20,900 BUT its not gonna compete with the Old GS/RS because its 160 Pounds Heavier and 6 Less Horsepower!
If I were a First time buyer the ST would be for me BUT at the end of the year when their reasonable.
I admire the seating position BUT its not gonna keep up with a GS/RS with Elka,s and a sway bar in the twisties.
Forget about 2 people unless just around town.
The RS is also listed as 798 or 100 Pounds heavier than the GS/RS? Whats up with that????
The New RT starts at Base $24,900--- Glad I am picking up my 2012 New RT for $17,000 and Only Tax!!!!!:yes:

[Adirondack Mik]

Love the new ST, love the looks, love the improvements, can't wait for mine:yes::yes::yes::yes:

[bobnaquin]

It looks like to me that BRP has just copied what RS owners have been doing for years: raising the handlebars, floorboards, new seat, saddle bags, improving the ride etc. They are not breaking new ground here, just emulating where the market for the RS has evolved into. Myself I have added the Givi kit, added handlebar risers, and will address the saddle soon. I already have a touring windshield. When I'm done my RS will basically be an ST, but I would have saved thousands from MSRP. BRP ought to sell a bunch of STs for the not quite ready for an RT segment.
I agree with this. BRP has listened and watched and pretty much brought a product to market that is has what people want.

Am I going to change out my 2008 RS/Gs for an ST that is pretty much equipped exactly as I now have my bike. No. Why would I? But there are some new buyers out there that can get one like mine (and a lot of other people's) off of the showroom floor. Good for them. If I had no Spyder then the St would be the obvious choice for me.

I think BRP is very good at knowing their market and responding to it. I expect that the Rs will be kept as a loss leader for a while and then be dropped because no one will buy them.

[Littlebadwolf]

Let me see...Can any of our guru's tell me what the horsepower of the stock RS is after doing the canneroskopy (sp)...adding the Hindle, K&N filter and 0-2 modifier?..Close to 120 HP I would imagine....I'll take on the RSS anytime. :) Then considering the thousands I've put into transforming my stock RS into a machine that I'm totally delighted with...such as the Elka shocks, EVO swaybar, Madstad windshield, Skin wrap by Pete, Garmin 660 GPS, Drift 170 Video/still can, corbin seats, passenger backrest, saddlebags, Day Runner lights, Triple Play, Mudflap & fender tip lights, trunk liner...even more...My baby runs perfect...not a single problem that wasn't self inflicted...I like the new RS but......It's all about the ponies and the fact I've got my baby personalized the way I want it...Will I get the new design?....Maybe, but definitely not at this point, a XM radio seems like it's a possible fit with my machine.

[retread]

So I've seen the pics, read the info, and I know my next ride will be a Spyder, which one? I'll decide right after I see/ride them. The power is enough to do what I want to do, the big thing is how it feels on the road.

john

[Bob Denman]

Love the new ST, love the looks, love the improvements, can't wait for mine:yes::yes::yes::yes:

Thumbs-up from the boss??? :2thumbs: :ohyea: :yes:

[Spyder777]

Sorry Dave. The RSS is $18,500

the ST is starting at $19,000 for a manual which doesn't include floorboards, WTF!!

So... For a ST model that is even close to anything/touring you need to fork out $25,000 and you still don,t have a backrest.

[NancysToy]

I said Sport/Touring windshield (which is 14"), and yes it was useless. The ST's shield hieght looks similar to it, hence my opinion towards it. Maybe my opinion will change after a test drive. :thumbup: No, I have not tried a taller one because of my stance on how they look.

I also like the overall look of the ST.
Remember Randy, the console is taller, too, so the mounting position is not the same. The oveall height will be taller with the same length windshield. It has a nice recurve, too. I expect you will also find the different body and the different mirrors will greatly affect the airflow and turbulence. Paiteince grasshopper. These questions will all be answered when Holly takes her test ride. ;)

[spyder3]

I agree. I see nothing on the new RT front that excites me even a little. I like trying new things, but my 2011 LMT bike runs great, handles great, looks great and is as comfortable as its going to get IMO. The 2013's get a big YAWNNNN from me. Not saying they aren't nice, just not much of an upgrade for my riding style.

[exwinger]

Seems a little weird that in a different thread someone couldn't have an opinion on anything about the spyder because he didn't own one. He based his decisions on what he read , heard and saw .Now here's a whole thread with a bunch of negatives based on only what is seen on pictures. Make up my mind.

[pro10is]

I've seen several references to those who are upset and dismayed at the loss of rated horsepower for the ST vs the RS. You need to understand that peak horsepower alone is not an accurate indicator of an engine's actual usable power. Look closer at the specifications and you'll see that the ST engine's torque at specific RPMs has increased over the RS rating. What this means is that BRP has re-tuned the engine to produce more torque (rotational force) where it is needed. This allows for better performance pulling more weight at critical engine speeds. There's no loss of engine power, it's just been redistributed to a power curve better suited to the weight of the ST and to improve its towing capability. The same was done for the RT. Same engine, same amount of usable power. The RS, being lighter and not rated for towing, requires less torque so it has a different power curve for maximum acceleration. Kudos to BRP to properly tune the engine to suit the application even though they knew people would erroneously think it had less power based only upon the peak horsepower rating.

[mick ruhdorf]

Hi all i think the new ST looks cool ,cant afford one but it looks cool . Now i will give my opinion about windscreens (some people will NOT like this ) ive just put the ultra short windscreen on my RS why? because one of the things i love about motorcycling is the wind in my face, if you want to be isolated from the elements DRIVE YOUR CAR .

cheers mick

[hotglue]

I've seen several references to those who are upset and dismayed at the loss of rated horsepower for the ST vs the RS. You need to understand that peak horsepower alone is not an accurate indicator of an engine's actual usable power. Look closer at the specifications and you'll see that the ST engine's torque at specific RPMs has increased over the RS rating. What this means is that BRP has re-tuned the engine to produce more torque (rotational force) where it is needed. This allows for better performance pulling more weight at critical engine speeds. There's no loss of engine power, it's just been redistributed to a power curve better suited to the weight of the ST and to improve its towing capability. The same was done for the RT. Same engine, same amount of usable power. The RS, being lighter and not rated for towing, requires less torque so it has a different power curve for maximum acceleration. Kudos to BRP to properly tune the engine to suit the application even though they knew people would erroneously think it had less power based only upon the peak horsepower rating.

torque is what moves you..... horsepower is only good at near max rpm.... I'll take more torque anyday!!!!!! do you run near red line?

[hotglue]

Excactly........... With my original post I was only pointing out the shortcoming for anyone that thinks they can tour with a passenger on this model. They should of atleast put heated grips back there and come standard with a sportrack and backrest because not all owners live in the south and ride alone.

I agree this model seems perfect for a single rider going long distance but stand firm on my original opinion for the passenger.
Seems to me that BRP has filled a gap...
RS= Sport riding
ST= sport riding / touring.... even if one up
RT= touring comfort for 2
RTS= fun for 2

Seems like a winning comb to me!!!!!
variety IS the spice of life!!!!!

[chris56]

???? did now 30.000 mls with the two Spders - most here in the Alps
which is a lot of work to drive with a spyder ..

when I did my first sitdown on the ST Modell everything was perfect - my arms are straight and the feets found there postion where it should be ..:thumbup:

I can look "over" the shield :thumbup:

my girl will need a backrest - but she does not sit in the first floor (RT-seat) where her head is not protectet from the wind :thumbup:

downhill I always wanted much stronger frontbrakes - :thumbup:

the heat-problems are solved :thumbup:

so maybe my first bike where I have to "optimise" nothing when I get it ??
(OK some strips or a second colour ...) and :
there are some different kind of side-cases from GIVI which fit on the original frame
http://www.givi.it/Side-hardbags/Monokey-/TRK33N-TREKKER

[SethO]

Let me see...Can any of our guru's tell me what the horsepower of the stock RS is after doing the canneroskopy (sp)...adding the Hindle, K&N filter and 0-2 modifier?..Close to 120 HP I would imagine....I'll take on the RSS anytime. :) Then considering the thousands I've put into transforming my stock RS into a machine that I'm totally delighted with...such as the Elka shocks, EVO swaybar, Madstad windshield, Skin wrap by Pete, Garmin 660 GPS, Drift 170 Video/still can, corbin seats, passenger backrest, saddlebags, Day Runner lights, Triple Play, Mudflap & fender tip lights, trunk liner...even more...My baby runs perfect...not a single problem that wasn't self inflicted...I like the new RS but......It's all about the ponies and the fact I've got my baby personalized the way I want it...Will I get the new design?....Maybe, but definitely not at this point, a XM radio seems like it's a possible fit with my machine.

I hate to burst your bubble on your numbers, 109 hp to the crank is really 92 hp to the tire which is butt by rocket standards for a 750 lb machine but it is a trike and new and was a quick attempt to get the product out with the league min for investment and now we all have something cool in common. the o2 mod does nothing for hp and a mild base slip on will give you 2-3 hp and that is being nice to hindle and the air filter might give you 2hp. The suspension mod's you have give you the most performance for speed out of corners.

pro10is

Horsepower Issue
I've seen several references to those who are upset and dismayed at the loss of rated horsepower for the ST vs the RS. You need to understand that peak horsepower alone is not an accurate indicator of an engine's actual usable power. Look closer at the specifications and you'll see that the ST engine's torque at specific RPMs has increased over the RS rating. What this means is that BRP has re-tuned the engine to produce more torque (rotational force) where it is needed. This allows for better performance pulling more weight at critical engine speeds. There's no loss of engine power, it's just been redistributed to a power curve better suited to the weight of the ST and to improve its towing capability. The same was done for the RT. Same engine, same amount of usable power. The RS, being lighter and not rated for towing, requires less torque so it has a different power curve for maximum acceleration. Kudos to BRP to properly tune the engine to suit the application even though they knew people would erroneously think it had less power based only upon the peak horsepower rating.

I have a PC 5 with autotune and that adjusts the power curve on my RS and it is the best increase I have got for managing the power on the spyder. That being said are you trying to say that if the new ST had 150hp stock that it would do worse or better for towing and gas mileage ? it would much better with a increase of hp or TORQUE. The RT owners I have talked to biggest complaint is the TERRIBLE gas mileage which could be increased by a real motor increase. I don't expect people to buy a RT for power but if you want a Touring machine then you need to go more than the 100 MPG or 150 if you are doing it for mileage and not worried about being killed by a semi hitting you in the butt.

I understand the mid sized idea but BRP could have took those improvements and applied them to both spyders and made more improvements with the time. I am personally let down that there was no increase in overall performance.
Again for people that have not met me I am in the minority because of my age and physical situation but the people in my age group are not ready to buy something that is this low on the performance level, its the best trike on the market and tell people that but its good not great and I wish it was.

[Littlebadwolf]

Seth...Thanks for the clarification/explanation regarding the hp of the RS...It still doesn't change my opionion of my RS...It's set up exactly as I want it...without the XM radio of course but I'll rectify that one..and I'll still take on the RSS..:)...I'm just not ready to spend the additional thousands it would take to get the ST up to par with all the accessories I have on my RS...Maybe one day, but not at the moment....Happy Spydering

[Adirondack Mik]

Thumbs-up from the boss??? :2thumbs: :ohyea: :yes:


Welllllllllll we will see.:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: With the improvements in brakes, suspension and adjustable handle bars I would rather she had the new one. :)

[Bob Denman]

I agree; Let her go pick the new one... :2thumbs:

[Ivorspyder]

Looking at the mods that I've seen on quite a few of the RS's, I think they hit a home run with the ST. It looks like it has much of the RS with the more upright seating position. Then add the suspension changes that were mentioned, and I think there is definately a target group out there that will eat it up. For me, I like the RT... If I were 30 years younger, and Single, it would be a difficult choice between the RS or the ST.
As for horsepower... I can understand why the RS crowd would like to see more, for me, I'm all about enjoying the ride, and scenery, so it's not all that important... I guess I got my "need for speed" out of my system!!!
:agree:When I first saw the Can Am RS in 2008 I was not interested in them at all.At the time I was riding the ST 1300 which I thought was a great ride.I then changed to a Goldwing for 3 years and earlier this year saw for the 1st time the RT and knew then that is what my change would be.Had I seen the ST then my interest would have been equally peeked.I equate Can Ams Rt &St to Honda,s ST and Goldwing.I think they have hit a home run with the ST and think a lot of people who would perhaps be buying the Honda St or the other Sport Touring motorcycles on the market will be looking to the Can Am as an alternative.In my opinion this is an additional market for them as well as existing RS customers upgrading to the ST.

Ivor:spyder: