Auto tune / install and HMF / do it yourself

[spyderraven]

Looking for those who use and have installed the PCV with autotune

Mine arrives wed and I already have the HMF as well as a KN filter ready to go. I have always done my own work unless I get to a tool I do not have which is rare but I will readily admit when it comes to electronics I get "leary".

I imagine the exhaust slip on will be like many I have done before and have no worries there but the research on the auto tune has shown I will need to have a "bung" welded on the Y pipe? is this correct?

Those who have done this can you give advice on the difficulty level and or location and how much of the faring I will need to remove? I will do like normal and dive in but thought I would check with you guys and see if there are some major pointers you learned while doing your install and what kind of time I need to put aside. I have found videos about auto tune install but not for the spyder.

Also I am sure this will come with the PCV and autotune but I believe you have to download a map to start with ? or will the autotune do that from the get go?

Again thank you for your time.

[5PYD3R]

I literally JUST finished with my PCV and auto tune install. You do have to have a bung welded in, not bad for someone who knows what they are doing. My buddy is a pipefitter so he did it in like 10min. As far as time, set aside a good amount of time to make sure all is done correctly. You will pretty much take all the tupperware off and the air intake. I placed the actual pcv and auto tune box in a diff spot than the directions say but whatever works for you. The Auto tune does not come with model specific directions either but it is really only one way you can hook it up. Once all is done go on power commanders website and download the maps and find which one best suits you. The auto tune will tune it from there. I used to run the JB pro and had nothing but issues. Just got back from the first ride with pcv and it was amazing!!

[Kratos]

I installed all these things myself as well. Show your exhaust shop this picture if they've never done it before. Powercommander will supply the bung, so all they need to do is weld it in....

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk278/jarroldharrell/spyderbung3.jpg


The PCV and autotune are very easy to install. Don't worry about difficulty....you'll get through it. No one is less mechanical or electrical than I am. :shocked: The main part of the setup is replacing the engine injectors with the pcv injectors. The stock injector on the right side of the engine is the hardest to reach with your fingers. Just keep digging in there, and it will eventually just come out, lol. Trust me, you'll know what I'm talking about when you do it.

Here's something else I want to show you. It is very easy for us rookies to forget to put stuff back together, partly because we never knew we took it apart. :D But near the left injector there is a map sensor the directions tell you to unscrew. If you don't look carefully, you'll miss the hoses that connect to it. I forgot to put the hoses back (because I never saw I disconnected them), and the bike went to acting nuts, and I thought it was the PCV, and it wasn't. Here's a pic......



http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk278/jarroldharrell/pcvwire5.jpg

The piece at the bottom with the green label is the map sensor. The two hoses are at the top kinda angling towards the wires. When you screw the map sensor back in place, don't forget to attach the hoses back to it. (Apparently no one has done this screw up but me, lol)


The instructions are gonna tell you to tap into wires for power. Here's a pic of an example of the PCV tapping into the throttle position sensor (white brown wire tap)


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk278/jarroldharrell/pcvwire2.jpg


The autotune needs to tap into a wire as well. Get a spare fuse out of the inside lid of your fuse box, place it in the fuse postion marked accessory (switched), and tap your autotune wire into it for power. The instructions will also tell you to ground the ground wires of both the autotune and the PCV. I grounded them both in the same spot (the instructions will show you where to put the pcv but not the autotune). So just put the autotune in the same location it says the pcv. There's enough room on the bolt to do it. (You'll know what I'm talking about when you get to it).

[Texmac1011]

I agree with all of the above and those are great pictures. The instructions say to mount it by the fuse box. This didn't work too well for me. I didn't think there was enough room there, so I mounted it under the seat on the left side with velcro.

I just used the preloaded map and let the autotune do the rest. I took it for an extended ride then hooked up the laptop and downloaded the settings from the autotune to the PCV. I have only done this once and the bike it running great. My wife had to leave town and needed the laptop, so I will dial it in better when she returns.


My dealer didn't know what a PCV w/autotune was, so I didn't want them doing the work. The install is time consuming, but not difficult. My mistake was not installing the additional bung and O2 sensor. I got a check engine light. The directions weren't clear on this part. Firefly let me know I needed to install it. After that, all was well.

[spyderraven]

wow thank you all very much... this will be a major help for me and answers my question about getting the shop to weld on the bung.

The pictures will be great refrence for me... guess I will remove the Y pipe and then get back home and finish up.

[deerslayer]

Powercommander only list 2009 an up. Have any one used the pcv 5 with autotune on the 2008 ?.
Wondering what is different on the 2008 ?.
thx.

[Texmac1011]

Powercommander only list 2009 an up. Have any one used the pcv 5 with autotune on the 2008 ?.
Wondering what is different on the 2008 ?.
thx.

My wife's is a 2008. It works just fine. I don't think there is any engine performance or operational differences between a 2008 and 2009.

[Dochands]

I agree that under the seat is a good place to mount it. You might need to hook up your laptop and thats a very convenient place

Just got mine last week.

Question. Is there anything to tweak with the Autotune besides setting up the AFR table? Was not real clear on the fuel tables. Also remember to activate both sensors in software. My dealer did not. This also means Cylinder Advanced.

What settings do you all have on yours?

[spyderraven]

I agree that under the seat is a good place to mount it. You might need to hook up your laptop and thats a very convenient place

Just got mine last week.

Question. Is there anything to tweak with the Autotune besides setting up the AFR table? Was not real clear on the fuel tables. Also remember to activate both sensors in software. My dealer did not. This also means Cylinder Advanced.

What settings do you all have on yours?

Ahhhh dangit now your making it more complicated.... I've gotta stop overthinking this process

[5PYD3R]

This is how my install ended up looking. Auto Tune sitting on the plastic and the PC attached to the underside of the frame. I also used the same ground for the Auto tune that the PCV says to use and tapped into the 12v switched wire for power

50158

[deerslayer]

Hello, What part numbers are every one using for powercommander? And which Auto tune kit? AT -200 OR 300 ?
THX

[5PYD3R]

Hello, What part numbers are every one using for powercommander? And which Auto tune kit? AT -200 OR 300 ?
THX

This is off powercommanders website:
Powercommander V
SKU: 25-004

(http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/products/AutoTune/)AutoTune (Single Channel)

SKU: AT-200

[Texmac1011]

Hello, What part numbers are every one using for powercommander? And which Auto tune kit? AT -200 OR 300 ?
THX

PCV is 25-004
Autotune is AT-200. The AT-300 has dual O2 sensors for monitoring each cylinder separately.

Go here and select Make:Bombardier - Model:Can-Am Year:2009 and the parts will come up.

http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/products/AutoTune/powercommander_autotune.aspx

[Texmac1011]

Just an FYI. The best price I found a few weeks ago was $500 for both at indysuperbikes.com

[Texmac1011]

I agree that under the seat is a good place to mount it. You might need to hook up your laptop and thats a very convenient place

Just got mine last week.

Question. Is there anything to tweak with the Autotune besides setting up the AFR table? Was not real clear on the fuel tables. Also remember to activate both sensors in software. My dealer did not. This also means Cylinder Advanced.

What settings do you all have on yours?

I let the autotune tell me what the AFR should be then downloaded it into the map and saved it. I didn't manually change any settings and don't know what my settings are right now. Wife is gone for another week with the laptop so I can't check. I still have some playing to do. I wasn't able to get he throttle to zero out before I quit. Only got it to 33% at idle.

[Sny]

I let others deal with the wiring and welding... I just make a mess when I do that.

But I've got the software setup down.

Turn the key to get power but don't start it.

Make sure your throttle reads 0 when it's closed and 100 when it's wide open. This might require cable adjustments and/or a BUDS TPS reset (dealer).

Under Options, Environment I would select Show auto tune tables even if pc is not enabled (helps when you're looking at maps with the bike off) I could create backup maps on connect and on sending map to device.
Turn on Cell tracer, 0.25sec.

Make sure you enable auto-tune

You have 3 main things to look at.
Under Map position 1, Primary Module, Autotune you will see Target AFR and Trim.
Target AFR is the autotune target air fuel ratio. This is what the autotune is going to try and achieve for a given rpm/throttle position pair.
Trim is what that autotune has learned since you last reset the trim tables. It is showing how much fuel to add or remove from the fuel map.

Below that you will see Fuel. This is the actual fuel map the power commander is using. It shows how much fuel is being added or removed from what the stock ECU is recommending.

The Target AFR chart should be completely blank in the area below 40% throttle and below 6000 rpms. This is the closed loop area and the autotune has no control over this area. When you load a map from dynojet this will already be blank. Everything else will probably say 13.2. I don't think dynojet tuned ANY of their downloadable target afr maps at all. But they're "safe" (rich is safer than lean.)

50178

The Fuel map DOES effect closed loop but the numbers won't ever be changed by auto tune trims. The maps from dynojet fill the closed loop area with all 5's, 8's or 10's depending on exhaust and intake combinations. They don't really make any sense (the put 10's for stock intake and exhaust, and 5's for the Ron wood race exhaust and open intake?) Lower numbers = leaner = less fuel = higher mileage. Too lean and you'll produce more heat until something gives out, or premature detonations from over heating damage the engine.

50179

You'll notice I don't have all 8's in the closed loop area. There are 3 areas I deviate from the dynojet maps.

At low rpms I find a little extra fuel helps smooth things out but that isn't a power generating area so there's no point in overdoing it.

At higher rpms and low throttle position is your cruising area. A little leaner here will increase fuel economy. I get about 30mpg highway and frequently better mileage than my wife (27mpg) when we ride together. Her GS has (had?) the same exhaust and intake but no power commander.

Then there's that funny spot around 3250 rpms. This extra fuel I added manually has completely eliminated a hiccup I had in that area. You'll notice that above 20% throttle the autotune agrees with me and has continued the trend to add more fuel at this rpm. Every motor has it's quirky spots.

BTW, I want to point out that I'm not recommending anyone use any of the values in those images. Just using them as an educational prop. Every Spyder is it's own, every setup unique, every environment different, and every riding style personalized.

Back to the Trim table for a moment. (no screen shot, it's all 0's)

The way this all works together...

At a given rpm and throttle position the stock ECU has a fuel value that it uses to calculate the time to open the injectors. The longer they're open the more fuel. For completeness sake this is called the injector pulse width. Also for the sake of education, there are other values used to calculate fuel such as intake air temp (you have checked that your ambient air temp sensor is installed/relocated haven't you?) and the amount of air flowing into the intake (mass air flow or MAF sensor) and so on (gear selector?)

If closed loop the ECU then checks the stock O2 sensor. The stock O2 sensor on a Spyder is not very sensitive. Most of the time it flips between 2 or 3 values at best which doesn't give an accurate read of uncombusted air flowing past it. But the ECU then uses this "low/ok/high" value to further adjust the fuel for the next cycle (milliseconds later.) To help prevent inconsistencies so pc/at can do their job. Dynojet's O2 Optimizer is installed inline with the stock O2 sensor and pretty much fakes the signal from it to say "GIVE ME ALL THE FUEL YOU CAN!" which in this case is 10% more which is the limit the ECU can provide. (trivia: The Hindle performance exhaust claims 4HP or approx 5% more power which should be within the +/- 10% range the stock ECU is capable of. That's where the claims of "you don't need a fuel computer if you just have a Hindle" come from. However the stock O2 is practically useless so it rarely makes significant adjustments one way or the other.)

The power commander then looks up the rpms and throttle position and modify the amount of fuel that the ECU has requested by adding the amount on the Fuel Map. Done with that.

In closed loop the Auto Tune module goes to sleep. That's right, it does nothing.

Hopefully this comes out to the amount that gives what you want (power, economy, smoothness etc). You can tweak this by manually adjusting the fuel map in the closed loop area (as I described above.)

In open loop the stock O2 sensor is not read by the ECU and the Auto Tune wakes up and checks the newly installed high resolution O2 sensor and make a precise adjustment to the amount of fuel requested in an attempt to achieve the Target AFR from the chart.

It takes this calculated difference and stores it in the Trim table.

You need to apply this Trim table periodically which will add the Trim value to the current Fuel Map permanently. If you don't apply it you won't be getting the full benefit of having the Auto Tune. From experience it takes at least one "bad" run through an rpm/throttle intersection before it "learns". The next time through that rpm range the Auto Tune has learned and it will be able to achieve the Target AF. But the first time it'll stumble through it at the stock value. Apply your trim every time you stop for the first few weeks after installing or after any significant changes (new mods, change in climate, altitude, solar flares...)

What numbers should you use? I dunno. Dynojet ships Target AFR's of all 13.2's across open loop. That's purely to cover their ass. More fuel doesn't always mean more power.

14.65 is supposed to be the best AFR for "perfect combustion". To mean that means both high efficiency and low emissions. Stock my Spyder runs between 14 and 15 (with occasional random jumps to 17 or 21 just to be irritating and backfire a bunch). Since adding the power commander it runs fairly close to the numbers I put in the Target AFR table. I find targeting over 14 doesn't work so well. Just doesn't feel right. 13.6-13.8 feels better. Many people run 13.2 everywhere like Dynojet's base maps and are happy. I think it's personal taste.

There's a lot that goes into finding the right numbers. Like checking plugs between runs etc. But I'll leave that for another lengthy post.

[spyderraven]

I let others deal with the wiring and welding... I just make a mess when I do that.

But I've got the software setup down.

Turn the key to get power but don't start it.

Make sure your throttle reads 0 when it's closed and 100 when it's wide open. This might require cable adjustments and/or a BUDS TPS reset (dealer).

Under Options, Environment I would select Show auto tune tables even if pc is not enabled (helps when you're looking at maps with the bike off) I could create backup maps on connect and on sending map to device.
Turn on Cell tracer, 0.25sec.

Make sure you enable auto-tune

You have 3 main things to look at.
Under Map position 1, Primary Module, Autotune you will see Target AFR and Trim.
Target AFR is the autotune target air fuel ratio. This is what the autotune is going to try and achieve for a given rpm/throttle position pair.
Trim is what that autotune has learned since you last reset the trim tables. It is showing how much fuel to add or remove from the fuel map.

Below that you will see Fuel. This is the actual fuel map the power commander is using. It shows how much fuel is being added or removed from what the stock ECU is recommending.

The Target AFR chart should be completely blank in the area below 40% throttle and below 6000 rpms. This is the closed loop area and the autotune has no control over this area. When you load a map from dynojet this will already be blank. Everything else will probably say 13.2. I don't think dynojet tuned ANY of their downloadable target afr maps at all. But they're "safe" (rich is safer than lean.)

50178

The Fuel map DOES effect closed loop but the numbers won't ever be changed by auto tune trims. The maps from dynojet fill the closed loop area with all 5's, 8's or 10's depending on exhaust and intake combinations. They don't really make any sense (the put 10's for stock intake and exhaust, and 5's for the Ron wood race exhaust and open intake?) Lower numbers = leaner = less fuel = higher mileage. Too lean and you'll produce more heat until something gives out, or premature detonations from over heating damage the engine.

50179

You'll notice I don't have all 8's in the closed loop area. There are 3 areas I deviate from the dynojet maps.

At low rpms I find a little extra fuel helps smooth things out but that isn't a power generating area so there's no point in overdoing it.

At higher rpms and low throttle position is your cruising area. A little leaner here will increase fuel economy. I get about 30mpg highway and frequently better mileage than my wife (27mpg) when we ride together. Her GS has (had?) the same exhaust and intake but no power commander.

Then there's that funny spot around 3250 rpms. This extra fuel I added manually has completely eliminated a hiccup I had in that area. You'll notice that above 20% throttle the autotune agrees with me and has continued the trend to add more fuel at this rpm. Every motor has it's quirky spots.

BTW, I want to point out that I'm not recommending anyone use any of the values in those images. Just using them as an educational prop. Every Spyder is it's own, every setup unique, every environment different, and every riding style personalized.

Back to the Trim table for a moment. (no screen shot, it's all 0's)

The way this all works together...

At a given rpm and throttle position the stock ECU has a fuel value that it uses to calculate the time to open the injectors. The longer they're open the more fuel. For completeness sake this is called the injector pulse width. Also for the sake of education, there are other values used to calculate fuel such as intake air temp (you have checked that your ambient air temp sensor is installed/relocated haven't you?) and the amount of air flowing into the intake (mass air flow or MAF sensor) and so on (gear selector?)

If closed loop the ECU then checks the stock O2 sensor. The stock O2 sensor on a Spyder is not very sensitive. Most of the time it flips between 2 or 3 values at best which doesn't give an accurate read of uncombusted air flowing past it. But the ECU then uses this "low/ok/high" value to further adjust the fuel for the next cycle (milliseconds later.) To help prevent inconsistencies so pc/at can do their job. Dynojet's O2 Optimizer is installed inline with the stock O2 sensor and pretty much fakes the signal from it to say "GIVE ME ALL THE FUEL YOU CAN!" which in this case is 10% more which is the limit the ECU can provide. (trivia: The Hindle performance exhaust claims 4HP or approx 5% more power which should be within the +/- 10% range the stock ECU is capable of. That's where the claims of "you don't need a fuel computer if you just have a Hindle" come from. However the stock O2 is practically useless so it rarely makes significant adjustments one way or the other.)

The power commander then looks up the rpms and throttle position and modify the amount of fuel that the ECU has requested by adding the amount on the Fuel Map. Done with that.

In closed loop the Auto Tune module goes to sleep. That's right, it does nothing.

Hopefully this comes out to the amount that gives what you want (power, economy, smoothness etc). You can tweak this by manually adjusting the fuel map in the closed loop area (as I described above.)

In open loop the stock O2 sensor is not read by the ECU and the Auto Tune wakes up and checks the newly installed high resolution O2 sensor and make a precise adjustment to the amount of fuel requested in an attempt to achieve the Target AFR from the chart.

It takes this calculated difference and stores it in the Trim table.

You need to apply this Trim table periodically which will add the Trim value to the current Fuel Map permanently. If you don't apply it you won't be getting the full benefit of having the Auto Tune. From experience it takes at least one "bad" run through an rpm/throttle intersection before it "learns". The next time through that rpm range the Auto Tune has learned and it will be able to achieve the Target AF. But the first time it'll stumble through it at the stock value. Apply your trim every time you stop for the first few weeks after installing or after any significant changes (new mods, change in climate, altitude, solar flares...)

What numbers should you use? I dunno. Dynojet ships Target AFR's of all 13.2's across open loop. That's purely to cover their ass. More fuel doesn't always mean more power.

14.65 is supposed to be the best AFR for "perfect combustion". To mean that means both high efficiency and low emissions. Stock my Spyder runs between 14 and 15 (with occasional random jumps to 17 or 21 just to be irritating and backfire a bunch). Since adding the power commander it runs fairly close to the numbers I put in the Target AFR table. I find targeting over 14 doesn't work so well. Just doesn't feel right. 13.6-13.8 feels better. Many people run 13.2 everywhere like Dynojet's base maps and are happy. I think it's personal taste.

There's a lot that goes into finding the right numbers. Like checking plugs between runs etc. But I'll leave that for another lengthy post.

head... dizzy.... thoughts.... fear..... ahh crap what have I gotten myself into.

I guess I was hoping "autotune" was just that ... auto

Well guess I will get it hooked up and see what i see

[5PYD3R]

head... dizzy.... thoughts.... fear..... ahh crap what have I gotten myself into.

I guess I was hoping "autotune" was just that ... auto

Well guess I will get it hooked up and see what i see

I agree..just got confused. I just set mine to accommodate the auto tune and made sure that throttle was at zero and 100% when wide open. Loaded my base map, let auto tune make adjustments and RIDE! My Spyder has never ran this smoothly. I am loving it!!

[StriperKing]

I have a map I have made myself that is based on performance all the way. If you would like it let me know and I will email it to you to try. I still get 30-32 MPG with it. Yes the Autotune does all the work like you had hoped but you still need to tell it what you want at first or it will just use the default map, either way it will work just not as well as it could.

"Make sure your throttle reads 0 when it's closed and 100 when it's wide open. This might require cable adjustments and/or a BUDS TPS reset (dealer)." Sny made this statement earlier and this is huge. When I installed mine I did not get any trim values between 70%-100% throttle but the Dynojet techs walked me through changing the Powercommander data base to match the Spyders values. Very easy if you need help with that.

I have the RT and not the RS but that really dosn`t change how AFR`s work. The differance between what works great for your Spyder and a 350 Chevy motor are surprisingly close to the same. It is just the small tweaks that make each work.

Mine runs very strong and butter smooth through 100% of the RPM range under all conditions but as stated before every machine is different. Good luck.

If you need help I am sure anyone of us would be glad to help over the phone when you are ready to do some of the map and trim stuff. Just ask if you do.

[Sny]

I realize it looks like a lot but it's not too bad.

After the physical install, set up the software (enable autotune etc), calibrate your throttle, Load the closest map you can get from Dynojet (don't worry, they're nearly all the same) and ride.

Every now and then apply the map.

If you want it to run better, then you have to start thinking about what you want to change and we can help with the how part.

[deerslayer]

Good Morning, Looks like all are using Auto Tune (AT-200) . ?
Since we have a twin cly. Why are we not using the (AT-300) ?
THX
gus

[5PYD3R]

I realize it looks like a lot but it's not too bad.

After the physical install, set up the software (enable autotune etc), calibrate your throttle, Load the closest map you can get from Dynojet (don't worry, they're nearly all the same) and ride.

Every now and then apply the map.

If you want it to run better, then you have to start thinking about what you want to change and we can help with the how part.

What do you mean "every now and then apply the Map?" I thought it constantly updated the map?

[Texmac1011]

What do you mean "every now and then apply the Map?" I thought it constantly updated the map?

When you ride, the auto tune is "logging" recommended adjustments for the map but not changing the map. The changes have to be downloaded into the map. At some point in a perfect world, the adjustments would be +1, -1, etc and are not worth the time to make changes to the map.

The autotune does not make automatic changes to the map on the fly.

This is the way I have done it to date.

[Texmac1011]

Good Morning, Looks like all are using Auto Tune (AT-200) . ?
Since we have a twin cly. Why are we not using the (AT-300) ?
THX
gus

For me, without have a lot of techinical knowledge, why try to tune seperate cyclinders when tuning them together works very well.

[Kratos]

Good Morning, Looks like all are using Auto Tune (AT-200) . ?
Since we have a twin cly. Why are we not using the (AT-300) ?
THX
gus

The variation between both cylinders is minute when it comes to stock engine and everyday riding. The only reason to really get into separate cylinders is if you're building the engine into a drag racing machine with cams, bbk, intake modifications, etc...

[Kratos]

To the OP, the install and tuning is VERY EASY. Don't get lost in all this typing. It's hard to even describe simple stuff with just a few words sometimes. Once you get into it, you'll notice that 100 words of typing equals to 3 seconds of what's mentally going on. Just get into it first, see how easy it is, then come back to this thread for any details that need feeling in. And once you get into it, I guarantee when you come back and read this thread, it's gonna mutate from looking like Spanish to simple ABC's.

[Texmac1011]

^^^^+1

[Dochands]

First everyone should know I have a Aerocharger Turbo on this bike. The Powercommander has replaced the Aerocharger controller which really didn't do the job for an SE5. Apparently Hi Performance is now doing this in house.

I have a basic AFR map. And a Fuel map given to me. No idea if they are tweaked or tuned to my setup. No idea really how to tweak them to be honest.

Mileage is better and so is performance. No more preignition. Bike is not running crazy rich as it was with the Aerocommander controller.

If anyone has a custom map that might work for me I would love to see it.

Also much thanks to Sny. That was an amazing post brother.

One more thing. My max throttle shows at 99. Is the one mark worth taking it back to the dealer?

[Sny]

First everyone should know I have a Aerocharger Turbo on this bike. The Powercommander has replaced the Aerocharger controller which really didn't do the job for an SE5. Apparently Hi Performance is now doing this in house.
It would be nice if Aerocharger offered the kit without fuel management so you could pick your own.


I have a basic AFR map. And a Fuel map given to me. No idea if they are tweaked or tuned to my setup. No idea really how to tweak them to be honest.
I'd love to see it out of curiosity. I wouldn't even try to change anything without the bike and a dyno... even then, there are far more skilled tuners that would do a much better job. (I know one in Florida if anyone's looking...)


One more thing. My max throttle shows at 99. Is the one mark worth taking it back to the dealer?
I think you're ok. It'll never use the 100% column, which isn't a big deal unless you wanted something special at wide open throttle.

[Dochands]

Might be a tuner who can handle the Spyder in Tulsa. Eventually that will be what I do.

It's exciting to me that so many of us have gone to this technology and can share our experiences.

Maybe we need a new subtopic on Spyderlovers. :clap:

[spyderraven]

To the OP, the install and tuning is VERY EASY. Don't get lost in all this typing. It's hard to even describe simple stuff with just a few words sometimes. Once you get into it, you'll notice that 100 words of typing equals to 3 seconds of what's mentally going on. Just get into it first, see how easy it is, then come back to this thread for any details that need feeling in. And once you get into it, I guarantee when you come back and read this thread, it's gonna mutate from looking like Spanish to simple ABC's.

Thanks for this... and thank you all. Tomorrow I start the project HMF, KN filter, pcv auto tune.... I am about to start pulling the bike apart today and wanted to ask and get clarification on one more thing and that is where the wide band and or new bung needs to be welded exactly and is this pipe (Y pipe) right underneath at the end of the stock pipe? Can I take this off or do I need to ride to a shop and have them lift it to weld the bung on?

Thanks again so much..... in all my years of riding and always being on forums for my specific bike I have never even come close to this kind of community!

[5PYD3R]

Thanks for this... and thank you all. Tomorrow I start the project HMF, KN filter, pcv auto tune.... I am about to start pulling the bike apart today and wanted to ask and get clarification on one more thing and that is where the wide band and or new bung needs to be welded exactly and is this pipe (Y pipe) right underneath at the end of the stock pipe? Can I take this off or do I need to ride to a shop and have them lift it to weld the bung on?

Thanks again so much..... in all my years of riding and always being on forums fons r my specific bike I have never even come close to this kind of community!

You will have to take the whole y-pipe off. Actually not a big deal. The instructions say to weld at an angle so water runs off it. I welded mine like firefly suggested, On top in line with stock O2. Was harder for my welder to go next to it.

[Texmac1011]

Thanks for this... and thank you all. Tomorrow I start the project HMF, KN filter, pcv auto tune.... I am about to start pulling the bike apart today and wanted to ask and get clarification on one more thing and that is where the wide band and or new bung needs to be welded exactly and is this pipe (Y pipe) right underneath at the end of the stock pipe? Can I take this off or do I need to ride to a shop and have them lift it to weld the bung on?

Thanks again so much..... in all my years of riding and always being on forums for my specific bike I have never even come close to this kind of community!

Find the factory O2 sensor that is installed now. It will be just before the exhaust clamp directly under the middle of the bike. I put mine on the opposite side of the OEM sensor. Just about anywhere above horizontal will work. It would definitely be difficult for a welder to install the new bung with the pipe on the bike.

[Kratos]

You will have to take the whole y-pipe off. Actually not a big deal. The instructions say to weld at an angle so water runs off it. I welded mine like firefly suggested, On top in line with stock O2. Was harder for my welder to go next to it.

Yep, weld it right on top of the pipe where the stock sensor is.

[spyderraven]

well I have everything apart and ready to go!

pipe off Y pipe off filter out and pcv mounted now I just have to wait till morning to find someone to weld the bung on.

Looking at pictures posted in another thread I see where the bung is welded on top right next to original o2 sensor placment on the Y pipe but I notice in the picture its capped off....
warning exhaust ignorance inc:

Do you place the new o2 in the place where the original is?? does not seem to make sense to me because why weld the extra place if you wont be using that o2 sensor?? maybe its just that one picture but it did make me wonder?

According to the instructions showing the angle of the sensor and such maybe the picture he just had not placed it in yet?? or like I said above maybe my ignorance is getting the best of me

[StriperKing]

well I have everything apart and ready to go!

pipe off Y pipe off filter out and pcv mounted now I just have to wait till morning to find someone to weld the bung on.

Looking at pictures posted in another thread I see where the bung is welded on top right next to original o2 sensor placment on the Y pipe but I notice in the picture its capped off....
warning exhaust ignorance inc:

Do you place the new o2 in the place where the original is?? does not seem to make sense to me because why weld the extra place if you wont be using that o2 sensor?? maybe its just that one picture but it did make me wonder?

According to the instructions showing the angle of the sensor and such maybe the picture he just had not placed it in yet?? or like I said above maybe my ignorance is getting the best of me

No you do not use the old o2 sensor port, just leave all that alone. Weld your new one in and screw the new sensor you recieved in it. I may be wrong but I think the threads are not even the same?

[StriperKing]

When you ride, the auto tune is "logging" recommended adjustments for the map but not changing the map. The changes have to be downloaded into the map. At some point in a perfect world, the adjustments would be +1, -1, etc and are not worth the time to make changes to the map.

The autotune does not make automatic changes to the map on the fly.

This is the way I have done it to date.

I just wanted to add to this for people trying to get a grasp of this whole thing. As Texmac1011 has stated the Autotune does not make changes to the map but it is making adjustments to the AFR to match the map that is installed. That is why you should except your tabs so the map and what the autotune is doing become close to the same.

[Texmac1011]

No you do not use the old o2 sensor port, just leave all that alone. Weld your new one in and screw the new sensor you recieved in it. I may be wrong but I think the threads are not even the same?

Yeah threads are the same. I made the mistake of ignoring the additional bung and using the existing bung for the new O2 sensor. It doesn't work........................

[Dochands]

Could someone explain how to tweak the fuel table? The bike ran better with it was blank. Now that I reloaded what I was given my AFR seems to cruise at 10 again.

Do you even need values in the Fuel table with Autotune?

[Sny]

Short answer, yes you need to change the fuel table.

Good news is the autotune will do it for you, once it's set up right.

Bad news is setting it up right might take some experimentation.

Load the map from Dynojet that is closest to your setup (intake and pipe).

Look at the trim table and it should be all zeros.

Look at the auto tune Target AFR table and it'll be all 13.2's in open loop and 0's in closed (see my other long post.)

Ride your bike. In 2nd gear go from 5000ish to redline at 100% throttle, then again at 80%, 60%, 40% and 20%. You'll have to make your best guess what each is. With the engine off and the laptop plugged in you can get a feel for where each is. You're shooting for 20something, 40something, 60something, not exactly on 20, 40 etc.

This will take some space and you'll be exceeding most speed limits.

3rd is the best gear to do this in, but you'll be going quite fast at redline. If that's ok and you have a safe place to do it, go for it.

1st happens too quickly to get a good read.

After you've done this at least a couple times for each throttle position, plug in the laptop and look at the trim tables. You'll see some of them aren't zero's anymore. This means it's working! If you did it enough, almost all of them will have a number in them. Remember that everything at 20% throttle and under, and 6000rpms and below will be zero on the trim table as the autotune doesn't work there.

Take a look at your Fuel Map. Depending on which map you loaded from Dynojet it will have 5's, 8's or 10's in the closed loop area and all kinds of numbers everywhere above that.

Accept your trim values and look at how the map changes. All the trim values are added into the map.

Click Send Map and then Save Map and give it a name that means something to you, like:
"Sny's 09 Spyder hindle stock air.pvm"

Now go ride it some more. You might notice some differences, you might not. Ride it like you normally do for a while (hours.) then ride it like someone stole it. Then ride like like your kids are on the back. Then repeat the above dyno-esque runs (20%, 40%, 60% etc.)

If you feel any funny spots, repeat over those several times. It won't do anything different now, but it is learning. Take it back to the barn and load up the laptop again and look at the new trims and accept them.

After a few thousand miles of this you'll notice the trims are nearly zero every time... little +1's and -2's here and there at most. That's when you know your map is working well and the bike is running like you told it to.

NOW you can start playing with the target AFR's :shocked:

Target AFR's will let you tweak mileage and power "lumps" and other odd and undesirable behavior.

- Sny

p.s. I'm no expert, just passing on what I've learned and what's worked for me so far. There's no great resource guides out there that help get you started on this. Took quite a bit of digging, reading, watching videos, bugging people and experimentation to get this far. If I had to do it all again I think I could have it sorted in a day instead of the month's it's taken. I haven't plugged the laptop in for a 4-5 weeks now. Yay!

[Sny]

If there are any experts out there reading this and I'm wrong, say something. I'll take silence to mean I'm right :yes:

[Dochands]

Thanks sny. May wait a day or two. Supposed to be 110 here today!

[Dochands]

Finally went for along ride last night. It cooled down to 95. lol

Checked trim tables this morning and they all were still zero. Doubly confused now.

[spyderraven]

Finally went for along ride last night. It cooled down to 95. lol

Checked trim tables this morning and they all were still zero. Doubly confused now.

I have not gotten into the aspect of really digging into the program and trim lvls and such.

I have been riding a lot since I hooked everything up and she runs great! part of me says leave well enough alone the other part says get some readings and start "tweeking"

I plan on hooking up the laptop this weekend when I have some un-interupted time and see what she is doing.. I will post back here with any findings or what I am running as far as the HMF and KN filter go.

Like the above poster.... it is confusing

[Kratos]

I have not gotten into the aspect of really digging into the program and trim lvls and such.

I have been riding a lot since I hooked everything up and she runs great! part of me says leave well enough alone the other part says get some readings and start "tweeking"

I plan on hooking up the laptop this weekend when I have some un-interupted time and see what she is doing.. I will post back here with any findings or what I am running as far as the HMF and KN filter go.

Like the above poster.... it is confusing


That's where I struggled at. I was at "good enough" but my personality kept wanting to go further to see how much more I could get. But I figured out that I wasn't gaining much because the autotune is NEVER gonna stop trimming.....it will just keep doing "REVERSALS".....if you look hard enough you'll see it starting to take fuel away from areas it said needed fuel and add fuel to areas it said needed some taken away. It'll just dance around those areas non-stop. This is your sign to quick, IMO.

[spyderraven]

That's where I struggled at. I was at "good enough" but my personality kept wanting to go further to see how much more I could get. But I figured out that I wasn't gaining much because the autotune is NEVER gonna stop trimming.....it will just keep doing "REVERSALS".....if you look hard enough you'll see it starting to take fuel away from areas it said needed fuel and add fuel to areas it said needed some taken away. It'll just dance around those areas non-stop. This is your sign to quick, IMO.

Quit?? you mean admit defeat?? NONSENSE .....

I kid... In fact it would seem our personalities are fairly similar I think i will look at the maps just to see what its doing but other than that leave it alone. She runs smooth , no backfire, and no surging so all seems copacetic.

[Texmac1011]

Quit?? you mean admit defeat?? NONSENSE .....

I kid... In fact it would seem our personalities are fairly similar I think i will look at the maps just to see what its doing but other than that leave it alone. She runs smooth , no backfire, and no surging so all seems copacetic.

+1 I am a lifetime member of the "If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It" club. My wife's spyder is running like a champ, so I am done messing with it until something changes.

[Sny]

Nothing wrong with that.

There's two kinds of people who buy fuel modifiers. People who want more power, and people who want the darn thing to run right after adding an aftermarket exhaust.

The O2 optimizer that comes with the power commander will do a lot of the work towards stopping the popping and other nonsense after adding an exhaust. Load in one of the standard maps from dynojet and you're "safe".

The Autotune module and other tweaking is to get more power and better fuel efficiency in the high rpm / high throttle areas (above 6000rpm or above 20% throttle).

If you're in the group who's looking to make it run right after making changes, you'll probably also be in the group that doesn't spend a lot of time above 6000rpms. The bike will run fine above 6000rpms without any help from the power commander, even with an exhaust (tho it might be dangerous if you have an aftermarket exhaust AND a high flowing intake).

But if you're in the "more power" group, you will find that without the power commander you are not making nearly the power you could be above 6000rpms.

Now, above 20% throttle almost everyone uses. And without the PC's help you will notice the huge bog that happens at low rpms (regardless of which gear you're in). It starts off fine then just groans it's way up until it's over 4000rpms or so. This can be fixed with tweaks in the power commander map. If you don't care or don't notice, you don't need to do anything here. You won't hurt anything by NOT tweaking.

The casual tuner here could just load a dynojet map and ride it however you normally ride. Every now and then, plug it in and apply the trim tables and send the map back to the bike. Don't bother looking at anything. Just do it every now and then and trust the autotune to keep things "close enough". It'll work fine. You really should apply some of the trim to it every now and then because your bike changes as it gets older. But even if you do nothing it'll still benefit from the fuel map that dyno jet provided. At that point you probably shouldn't have bought an autotune and saved some money. :)

[Sny]

Finally went for along ride last night. It cooled down to 95. lol

Checked trim tables this morning and they all were still zero. Doubly confused now.
Either you never got into the open loop area (above 6000rpms and/or above 20% throttle) or you have no AutoTune table loaded or something isn't hooked up right.

Did you open a map from dynojet and send it to the bike? Verify by clicking Get Map then under Auto Tune click on Target AFR. You should see a whole lot of 13.2's (dynojet likes that overly rich safe number).

If not, click open, find the map you downloaded from dynojet that closest matches your mods, and click Send Map.

Does the throttle % on the right side change when you turn the throttle? If not, you may have a communications problem, try rebooting the laptop, unplug and replug the usb cable (both ends) and turn off the spyder, wait 30 seconds for everything to shut off, then start over.

In addition to throttle % you can start the bike with the laptop hooked up and see the AFR live. You'll see some whacky numbers at idle somewhere between 14 and 17 (mine jumps around a lot at idle.) If you blip the throttle some you might see it go very lean (17-20) which means you might want to add more fuel, but it also means that your map probably didn't load right. Almost all the dynojet maps add fuel down low to help with low rpm issues that almost all stock Spyders have.

If it's communicating (you see throttle % changing when you move the throttle) and it has a map (you see 13.2's all over the AutoTune Target AFR map) then go ride again. Deliberately hammer it from 5mph to redline in first and second. You should at LEAST get numbers in the 80% or 100% columns then. If you still don't get anything, something isn't hooked up right.

If you guys have problems with the software feel free to PM me, I can talk through a lot of this on the phone as well if this isn't making sense. But also remember that Dynojet provides support for their products and are pretty nice guys on the phone.

[Dochands]

Ok. Finally. Turns out the dealer made two mistakes setting up the Powercommander. First was only setting it for one sensor instead of two. Was set to take it back in tomorrow and finally noticed they had set set it up for Autotune switch. Well I have no switch so I clicked it off, revved the engine and bingo, the Autotune light came on my laptop.

Earlier loaded a map made by Andrew and Brad at Hi Performance for my turbo.

So now. Finally. The fun can begin. After all it has been a comedy of errors.

[Dochands]

Saga continues. System needs a MAP sensor and pressure tables. Discouraged. I pay professionals to do a job. If it was me I'd be sued for malpractice.

[stewartj239]

The autotune needs to tap into a wire as well. Get a spare fuse out of the inside lid of your fuse box, place it in the fuse postion marked accessory (switched), and tap your autotune wire into it for power.

I am in the process of installing the AutoTune on my RT-S. I was searching the forum looking for the location of the tail light wire which they recommend to use as the power source, then I came across this thread. I am pretty good mechanically, but I am incompetent when it comes to the electrical stuff :)

I know this is an old thread, but can anyone elaborate on how exactly to wire the AutoTune to draw power from the fuse box? The directions say to wire it to the tail light wire using a posi-tap. How does that translate to the using the fuse box?

[JBnLIZ]

Hi from NZ and in process of fitting y pipe with the PCV auto tune - I know it has been a while but do you still have the photos of where you welded the additional O2 sensor adapter in. (They are not available anymore)
Many thanks in advance