Amsoil and SE5 clutch?

[pwilbarger]

I was out for a ride today and stopped at the platinum dealer nearest to me (70 mi.) to check them out to possibly have them start doing my service. I'm not real happy with the two closer dealers. I talked to Tyler in service about this and he seemed very knowledgable abt Spyders. He new abt the new filters but not new panel to be provided BRP. All was going well until I asked them abt using my Amsoil ( I'm a dealer). I could tell by the look on his face that something was wrong. I thought maybe they weren't liking the idea of me bringing my own oil. He said no that wasn't the problem. Seems they don't recommend any full synthetic for the SE5 because they found that it causes the clutch to slip. They put in the blend. I told him I've used Amsoil for 7000 miles without a problem. He said they could put it in but I'd have to "sign off" on it. My current dealer, the closest one to me, never voiced any concern abt this. Anyone else had a dealer tell them this abt synthetic? Like I said I've had no problems in 7k plus I just bought a whole case (15k worth).


Spyder Phyl

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[Jeriatric]

That's a little strange. Our OM specifically states that full synthetic can be used. As long as it meets specified standards. For them to ask you to sign off on it is ludicrous. jmo

[Firefly]

I was out for a ride today and stopped at the platinum dealer nearest to me (70 mi.) to check them out to possibly have them start doing my service. I'm not real happy with the two closer dealers. I talked to Tyler in service about this and he seemed very knowledgable abt Spyders. He new abt the new filters but not new panel to be provided BRP. All was going well until I asked them abt using my Amsoil ( I'm a dealer). I could tell by the look on his face that something was wrong. I thought maybe they weren't liking the idea of me bringing my own oil. He said no that wasn't the problem. Seems they don't recommend any full synthetic for the SE5 because they found that it causes the clutch to slip. They put in the blend. I told him I've used Amsoil for 7000 miles without a problem. He said they could put it in but I'd have to "sign off" on it. My current dealer, the closest one to me, never voiced any concern abt this. Anyone else had a dealer tell them this abt synthetic? Like I said I've had no problems in 7k plus I just bought a whole case (15k worth).


Spyder Phyl

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They probably ran across someone who used a full-synthetic that had modifiers in it and thus caused clutch slippage. AMSOIL works just find in all Spyders...... nothing to worry about at all.

[pwilbarger]

That's a little strange. Our OM specifically states that full synthetic can be used. As long as it meets specified standards. For them to ask you to sign off on it is ludicrous. jmo

I know. Maybe I'll just stick with the closer dealer and just put up with the annoying things like never calling back to schedule warranty work after I know the parts are there and taking weeks to get an regular service appointment.


Spyder Phyl

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[pwilbarger]

They probably ran across someone who used a full-synthetic that had modifiers in it and thus caused clutch slippage. AMSOIL works just find in all Spyders...... nothing to worry about at all.

I agree. See #4.


Spyder Phyl

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[Jeriatric]

I know. Maybe I'll just stick with the closer dealer and just put up with the annoying things like never calling back to schedule warranty work after I know the parts are there and taking weeks to get an regular service appointment.


Spyder Phyl

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Lets see......which lemon aide do I want to drink today? That's what your choice sounds like.

Choice.......or chance?

To bad that's what it boils down to.

[NancysToy]

The spec they should look for is JASO MA2. This has a higher coefficient of friction than eitehr JASO MA or JASO MA1. It is the safest rating for wet clutch motorcycle synthetics. Amsoil motorcycle oil and Castro RS R4 4T are the MA2 rating.

[effgjamis]

The spec they should look for is JASO MA2. This has a higher coefficient of friction than eitehr JASO MA or JASO MA1. It is the safest rating for wet clutch motorcycle synthetics. Amsoil motorcycle oil and Castro RS R4 4T are the MA2 rating.

I say there Scottie..
I had a chat not long ago with people that races and drags and all of their bikes use standard Castrol 20-50 for wet clutch.

Can you clearify that for me... this synthetic vs not synthetic is driving me coo coo... well not far to go,, think I am there already.

[sealfloorboards]

I am also an Amsoil dealer. Before going that route, I had two service depts. say it was an outstanding oil and would increase the distance between oil changes between 1.500 and 2,000 miles. The Silver Seal runs great on it.

Ride in comfort,

John
Seal FloorBoards

[NancysToy]

I say there Scottie..
I had a chat not long ago with people that races and drags and all of their bikes use standard Castrol 20-50 for wet clutch.

Can you clearify that for me... this synthetic vs not synthetic is driving me coo coo... well not far to go,, think I am there already.
I have used the standard Castrol in dry clutch motorcycles, but I can't recommend it for long-term use, although I have never seen problems with the use of GTX. The additives in non-motorcycle oils are different, and are often corrosive or damaging to any alloy and bronze in motorcycle engines. They are also not designed for the heat (of air-cooled engines), and tend to leave varnish on the internal parts. Finally, they are not generally suitable for wet clutches. They can not only slip, but they can swell the friction media. The Spyder manual specifies semi-synthetic or full synthetic motorcycle oils. I'd stick with that recommendation.

[Bad Dog6]

AMSOIL



JULY 2012 | 7 M a G a Z i n e


t e C h t a l k


One of the sure signs of summer is the abundance of motorcycles operating on the roads across North America. And if it seems like there are more motorcycles than ever on the highways and byways, that's because there are. In 2012, nearly 9.5 million motorcycles were registered in the U.S. alone. That figure has grown by more than 47% since 2002, when the total was slightly more than 5 million. Motorcycle culture and the thrill of the open road bring thousands of new riders and enthusiasts into the hobby every year. Although many “gear heads” love working on their bikes, few want to be doing repairs or experiencing downtime from riding that could be prevented by basic maintenance. As with any vehicle powered by an internal combustion engine, proper lubrication is essential to ensure performance and longevity.


In the past, it was common for motorcycles to run on engine oils designed for four-stroke automobile engines. And if you spend any time on online motorcycle forums, you'll see plenty of folks still advocating the use of automotive oil for motorcycles. What is their rationale? They're looking to save a couple bucks on a quart of oil, as the majority of oils blended specifically for motorcycle applications are more expensive per quart than their automotive counterparts. But is using auto oil in your motorcycle a good practice?


There are several reasons why motorcycle oils are better for your bike than automotive oils.


Motorcycles have fundamentally different lubrication requirements than


automobiles. This is due primarily to differences in both engine design and vehicle applications. Motorcycles often operate under more severe conditions than passenger cars. They usually run faster, are air-cooled and share an oil sump between the engine, clutches and gears. The oil, therefore, must lubricate not only the engine, but the transmission and, in the case of wet-clutch motorcycles, the clutches, too. Many automotive oils, because of fuel economy requirements, are now formulated with friction modifiers. In a motorcycle with a wet clutch, these additives cause clutch slip and power loss.


Operating habits are different, too. While many of us rely on a car or truck for year-round day-to-day transportation and for longer road trips, motorcycles are often ridden seasonally, on weekends or on shorter trips. These trips often occur during warm summer weather, when the cooling system has to work even harder. Thus, a motorcycle lubricant must protect against high temperatures and high engine rpm while providing smooth wet-clutch operation and protecting gears and chains from operational pressure extremes. Because of these factors, many motorcycle oils are engineered with high viscosity to help prevent gear pitting, oil burn-off and oil consumption.


Retaining that viscosity is critical to ensure components remain protected. The high rpm and shared oil sumps common to motorcycles create an environment that promotes shearing. In fact, transmission gear


sets are the leading cause of shear-induced viscosity loss in motorcycle applications. The oil's shear-stability and viscosity retention are vital for protecting motorcycles.


Additionally, motorcycles are often stored for several months during winter – a time when condensation can cause rust, which accelerates wear and can damage engine components. Rust is also a problem inherent to the shorter drive times motorcycles often endure. If not combated, rust can cause bearing corrosion which results in vibration, noise, increased temperatures and catastrophic failure. Effective motorcycle oils must include rust inhibitors to keep engines and components free from corrosion.


Motorcycle oils must also prevent foam from forming, which happens when air enters the lubricating oil during normal engine and transmission operation. Foam bubbles entering a lubricated area take the place of the lubricant film and compress easily, leading to metal-to-metal contact. Foam also promotes increased oxidation because more of the oil's surface area is exposed to oxygen. An oil's tendency to foam should be considered when selecting an oil for your motorcycle.


For many riders, motorcycles represent significant investments of thousands of dollars. It only makes sense to protect those investments with products tailored to address their specific lubrication requirements.


Dan Peterson | VICE PRESIDEnT, TEChnICAL DEVELOPMEnT


automotive oil and motorcycle oil are not the same. Motorcycles have specific requirements that automotive oils may not address.

[Grandpa Spyder]

All I know is I have been using AmsOil MC oil 10/40 since my 600 mile service and that is all I will use in the future.

[SPYD3R]

I was out for a ride today and stopped at the platinum dealer nearest to me (70 mi.) to check them out to possibly have them start doing my service. I'm not real happy with the two closer dealers. I talked to Tyler in service about this and he seemed very knowledgable abt Spyders. He new abt the new filters but not new panel to be provided BRP. All was going well until I asked them abt using my Amsoil ( I'm a dealer). I could tell by the look on his face that something was wrong. I thought maybe they weren't liking the idea of me bringing my own oil. He said no that wasn't the problem. Seems they don't recommend any full synthetic for the SE5 because they found that it causes the clutch to slip. They put in the blend. I told him I've used Amsoil for 7000 miles without a problem. He said they could put it in but I'd have to "sign off" on it. My current dealer, the closest one to me, never voiced any concern abt this. Anyone else had a dealer tell them this abt synthetic? Like I said I've had no problems in 7k plus I just bought a whole case (15k worth).


Spyder Phyl

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i spoke with the Service Manager at POWERSPORTS of GREENVILLE here in Greenville, SC and he and the Lead Mechanice said that ABSOLUTELY NOT USE FULL SYNTHETIC... your clutch will still work, but syn-oils are so slick, that in time the clutch will start to slip and then fail completely... use the recommend lubricants of the manufacturer, and should you have an issue, you're covered under their warrantee...
SPYD3R

[flybuddy]

Lot's of folks have endless opinions on oils...including dealers. We need to make our own decisions based on specs. Manufacturer recommendations are useful but they tend to push us to their products. BRP spent a million on their oil (probably most went to marketing). As this was outside their area of expertise this does not impress me. Their oil is too low a viscosity for hot riding and tends to foam. I would bet that it shears quickly also. Oil companies have much more expertise. You can't go wrong with a full synthetic MA2 motorcycle oil. Do not use any with SM designation. Most MA2 oils have been mentioned, Valvoline also is MA2. Be careful with Mobil 1 as it is not MA2 and is also an SM oil.

[Deputy56]

Using Amsoil Motorcycle Oil in my 2012 RT-S. Trike shifts smoother with Amsoil.

[Jeriatric]

i spoke with the Service Manager at POWERSPORTS of GREENVILLE here in Greenville, SC and he and the Lead Mechanice said that ABSOLUTELY NOT USE FULL SYNTHETIC... your clutch will still work, but syn-oils are so slick, that in time the clutch will start to slip and then fail completely... use the recommend lubricants of the manufacturer, and should you have an issue, you're covered under their warrantee...
SPYD3R


"Too slick" ?

Full synthetic 'IS' a BRP recomended oil.

Refer to your OM page 129


Recommended Engine Oil

The same oil is used for the engine, gearbox, clutch, and the Hydraulic ControlModule (HCM) in the SE5 model. Use the XPS 4-STROKE BLEND OIL(SUMMER GRADE) (P/N 293 600 121) or a 5W40 semi-synthetic (minimum) or synthetic motorcycle oil meeting the requirements for API service SL,SJ, SH or SG classification. Alwayscheck the API service label on the oil container.


To avoid damaging the clutch, do not use a motor oil meeting the API service SM or ILSACGF-4classification. Clutch slippage will occur.

[Bad Dog6]

I can tell you from experience that very high percentage of Mechanics (although good at what they do, for the most part) don't know there butt from first base about oils. I believe Field Studies and lab analysis when making my decisions.

Lubes and Greases magazine. (They are to lubricants what Consumers Magazine is to everything else). Makes a statement and I Quote "With the state of the art of Synthetic lubricants I can't imagine why anyone would put a petroleum oil in an engine today "

For my money, I will take the word of Lubologists and experts in the lubricant field over a mechanic any day. BRP oil is no different than any other manufactures oil, it is not made by them, it is made by the lowest bidder. ( Harley oil is made by Citgo Cesar Chavez.

IMHO, a Motorcycle rated Full Synthetic oil is the only way to go. I have been studying, going to school and selling Synthetic Lubricants and dealing with Mechanics since 2003. When they make statements like what has been posted in this thread, it only further proves my point.

[leenanj]

I have been using regular Amsoil motor oil ( not the motorcycle blend )in
all of my quads, dirt bikes, motorcycles for the last ten years and now the Spyder.

I realize that the MC blend has removed the friction modifier for wet clutches
but my thinking is why deprive the entire engine of this added benefit.

I have never had a clutch slip that I was aware of and doubt it would happen
unless you are running in a racing environment under the most extreme conditions.

Of course this is my experience and opinion and someone might change it. LOL

Ride on Spyders! :2thumbs: