3,000 mile oil change...or later?

[smoky]

46764Most experts on automobiles are now saying up to 7,500 miles between oil changes especially if using synthetic or synthetic blend oil. What is the feeling of the Spyder nation on more miles between changes? How would this affect warranties?

[NancysToy]

BRP's recommendation is 3,000 miles. Substantially exceeding that limit could jeopardize your warranty for an oil related failure. I won't argue that BRP's interval is quite short, especially if a full synthetic is used, but remember that you cannot compare to a car's interval. The Spyder has a common oil supply with the transmission and clutch. Transmissions are very hard on oils, causing the structure to shear and become less effective in a much shorter time. Wet clutches contaminate the oil over time, some of which cannot be removed by the filter(s). As a result, a motorcycle with a common transmission and wet clutch needs a shorter oil change interval than a vehicle with a separate trans and a dry clutch (or conventional automatic transmission). Stretch the interval at your own risk...but I certainly would not stretch it 2.5 times!

[daveinva]

:agree: As much as I'd love to save the scratch, the Spyder's not a car. It requires more love and care than, say, a Honda Accord, but on the plus side, it returns our affections so much better!

[mastertek2000]

i have used amsoil in all my bike they say you can go 3 time recomanded factory specs but always did mine at 3000 miles oil change is on of the most important thing you can do to your spyder

[BajaRon]

Opinions vary. I go 5k~6k between oil changes but I use a true synthetic oil (which BRP is not). Scotty is right about the crush/shear effect of transmission gears on oil. That is why most vehicles have a different compartment for gears so they can run an oil specifically designed to deal with the tremendous forces encountered there.

True synthetic oils deal with these stesses much better and for much longer than oils that are marketed as 'Synthetic' and are not. Many brands market a 'Synthetic' oil but they use standard mineral base oils with additives. The additives and the mineral based oil tend to break down quickly, hence the short change intervals. True synthetic oils also resist contamination much better than these other products.

I am not aware of any oil failure related issues with the Spyder. I am not saying there are none but I have not heard of any. Oil delivery issues, bearing failures, yes, but due to problems not related to the oil itself.

Each rider must decide what they are comfortable with and what their priorites are. If you want the best possible lubrication and protection there is no question that a TRUE, Full Synthetic oil is the only way to go. Just because it says 'Synthetic' on the bottle does not mean you are getting a true synthetic oil.

The Castrol products that BRP puts in their bottle will do an adequate job if changed often. If adequate is good enough then there you are.

Here is an interesting chart. Amsoil has their products independently tested and there are many parameters and jobs that an oil must perform. This is just one of them but a very important one.

This chart tests the oils ability to maintain it's rated viscosity in actual operating situations (hight temperatures). Film strength is the oil's ability to keep metal parts from touching. Ideally your oil will never allow metal to metal contact. This is a difficult task in a transmission, especially when the oil is hot. If you don't have adequate film strength it really doesn't matter how well an oil does everything else because you're going to get excessive friction, wear and heat buildup in components.

Just because your oil says 10w-40 on the bottle does not necessarily mean it can maintain that rating in severe conditions. And, as the oil ages, this film strength can get much weaker. A true synthetic oil will maintain strong film strength for at least twice as long as a mineral based oil.

As you can see the Castrol product does not do well here. It really is an unfair comparison though, because it's apples and oranges (true synthetic oil vs a synthetic in label only oil). But since these manufacturers market their products as 'Synthetic', charts like this are needed to show the customer what they are getting.


10W-40 Motorcycle Oil High Temperature Viscosity Protection Higher values reflect better film strength ASTM Test Method D-4683

http://www.syntheticoildistributor.com/images/mcftestchart.jpg

[Lamonster]

My opinion is 5K between oil changes should be just fine but the factory says 3K as pointed out.

[Dudley]

In our first Spyder, a 2008 SE5, I used Royal Purple 10W40 Synthetic Automotive oil for 40,000 miles with no issues, changing every 5,000 miles. On our trip around the US and Canada, I went 14,000 miles without changing the oil, using 2 quarts. Now in the 2010 RT Manual, I have 22,000 miles using the same oil and changing at the same intervals. I don't worry too much about the warranty for oil related issues. If I changed the oil every 3,000 miles I would be changing every 2 months! It's not the cost (I do my own) it's the overkill.

[Ga Blue Knight]

I change every 3,000 well maybe sometimes 4,000 if I am on the road. Oil is still cheaper than an engine rebuild so,why take the chance. Many times the oil is fine even after 7,000 miles but what about the contaminants in the oil? All of those acids and sludges etc. definitely do an oil change before putting the bike up for winter if you don't ride in the cold.

[Sarge707]

I,m starting to go 4,000 with Amsoil BUT at 2,500 I extract 2 quarts out of the tank and put in 2 fresh quarts of Amsoil!!

I know this is overkill but I Have a 98 130 HP rotax jetski that has over 500 hours and runs like the day it was bought.:2thumbs:

[Huntindawg1962]

Oil is still cheaper than an engine rebuild so,why take the chance. Many times the oil is fine even after 7,000 miles but what about the contaminants in the oil? All of those acids and sludges etc. definitely do an oil change before putting the bike up for winter if you don't ride in the cold.

:agree:

[Grandpa Spyder]

I change both filters at 3000 and oil at 6000 I use Amsoil 10/40 motorcycle oil. Just top off at filter change.

[coz]

this has probably been asked and answered a hundred times, but i don't remember seeing it. what's the difference between motorcycle specific oil and car oil:popcorn:? i'm not under waranty, and about to do an oil change.

[BajaRon]

this has probably been asked and answered a hundred times, but i don't remember seeing it. what's the difference between motorcycle specific oil and car oil:popcorn:? i'm not under waranty, and about to do an oil change.

In 1 word, Slippage, in 2 words Clutch Slippage!

Automobile oils don't have near the job requirements that a motorcycle will give it. A big difference is that the clutch on most motorcycles runs in the motor oil. With the slippery additives in automotive motor oil you'll be lucky to pull away from a stop light after several miles of running it. You'll be replacing your clutch with every oil change if you go that route.

[gypsy_100]

this has probably been asked and answered a hundred times, but i don't remember seeing it. what's the difference between motorcycle specific oil and car oil:popcorn:? i'm not under waranty, and about to do an oil change.

Agree with above. I don't want to turn this into yet another oil thread but... A couple things to look for. First, note that the best auto oils will say "energy conserving" or something like that in the API seal on the bottle. No good -- too slippery for the wet clutches in your Spyder. Second and most importantly, look for a motorcycle oil that shows on the label it meets JASO MA standards. That's a Japanese spec that tests for slippage in wet motorcycle clutches and is a standard that insures the oil will not cause excessive slippage. Third, a few years ago JASO modified their spec into better and best. JASO MA2 is now the best of the best, representing the best half of the original JASO spec. So JASO MA is great, JASO MA2 is even better. Amsoil meets JASO MA2 as do many other motorcycle oils. Mobil 1 meets the original JASO MA but not MA2. Look on the bottle -- it will be there. If it's not, I wouldn't buy it whether it claims to be a motorcycle oil or not. Many motorcycle manufacturers specify in their owners' manuals that oil must meet JASO MA or some now even spec JASO MA2. That's the holy grail for motorcycle oil. BRP hasn't figured that out yet.

[NancysToy]

Double agree with both above. No lecture here, but suffice it to say that there are a great many differences...types and amounts of additives, heat and shear tolereances, wet clutch capabilities, abilities to withstand great heat, etc., etc.

[aklim]

Is there some reason we can't change the oil at 3000, even with say Amsoil and during that change, collect a sample and send it to Blackstone Labs and have them tell us what they think the condition of the oil is? Reason I ask is that after the break in, I think it would be nice to see what it is doing at 3000 and have them say "It can go another X miles more" or you best change it every 3000", etc, etc.

[Trickie Dick]

Is there some reason we can't change the oil at 3000, even with say Amsoil and during that change, collect a sample and send it to Blackstone Labs and have them tell us what they think the condition of the oil is? Reason I ask is that after the break in, I think it would be nice to see what it is doing at 3000 and have them say "It can go another X miles more" or you best change it every 3000", etc, etc.

No, there's no reason. In fact you can change it anytime you want to. Might get a little expensive and time consuming but have at it. :roflblack:Actually there are those that have had their oil tested. You might do a search. There are a million oil threads on this forum.

[ulflyer]

I've run two lab tests in order to aswer the question that started this thread of "how long can oil be used". The first test at 4K showed a little bit of fuel in the oil which may be the cause of the vicosity being down to a high 20W. Note that the TB had acted up and had been changed during this.

The second test was done at 3K and the vicosity was at the 30W level with a "caution" noted by the lab. By this I'm assuming that the oil should be changed in near future so I ran it on to 4K. I replace both filters each time I do an oil change.

My feeling is that 4K is about the most I want to push it but I intend to try some other brands in the future.

I have a bunch of prepaid oil analysis kits on hand and will probably run the tests at 3K which will then give me time to see if its ready for a change or some idea how much longer I might run it. Also, these tests give me documentation on condition of the motor, just in case!

[billybovine]

When I brought my Spyder 09 SE5 to the dealer for transmission shifting issues I faced an interrogation on how often I changed the oil and what kind of oil I used. The dealer explained that in their experience, most of the complaints for shift issues in a SE5 are a result of not changing the oil in time or using the incorrect oil.

[pro10is]

See Lamont's thread in Shoptalk for some breaking news on this subject: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?40092-FYI-New-filters-and-Maintenance-Schedule-for-ALL-Spyders