Update Can-Am Spyder Hybrid Roadster Concept

[docdoru]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC-ZwbdlB8Y :thumbup:

[wyliec]

Hey Doc,

I heard Donald Parmaleau is handling the R&D. After doing such a swell job with the 2010 GBR for the Magog Parade, the hybrid should be out by 2099.

[chris56]

I have seen this new engine in the rotax showroom - most intelligent engine they ever produced !!!
Here in Europe the biggest problem is with the Lithiom-Ionen-Batteries - in the moment they stopped the delivery of some Hybrid-cars (Opel) - till its cleared how dangerous this units are..
If KTM will start with the full electric enduro (around the same e-engine like the Rotax) next year -
all the laws of using bikes and cars in natur-reservations or in citys with too much dirt in the air will be changed (started the last years in Austria/Italy ...)
Other than all the 2-wheelers our spyder is the right conzept of carring the extra weight of the batterie .. so I think the hybrid will be the future of the complete BRP range (also for seadoos/skidoos ) -and the Future of the company itselve !!
maybe thats more for europe than for america - but its also a personal decision ..
(lets make a better world - just you and me)
http://www.ktmfreeride.com/#/gallery

[Bob Denman]

The video was cute; just lacking an any specifics...
What engine is under the "hood", and how much does the hybrid design compromise the existing platform with extra weight, cost and complexity?

[chris56]

hi bob .. thought you know that

69kg engine&generator - 600ccm 2 cilynder 57HP - 25 HP electro (Rotax ACE from skidoo)
don`t know the size/weight from the batterie .. think about 25 extra kg (depending how many miles you will be able to drive without fuel..)
the software to "connect" this two engines ... 10 x ?? the spyder-VSS-System ?
last problem - to produce a little noise when it runs in full-electro-modus ..
I hope they allow me some test-miles in the nearer future - I´ll take my R2D2 with me:)38404

[packbuckbrew]

I am all in favor of fuel efficiency and conservation, but am definitely NOT in favor of mandates from my government. I own a Tahoe hybrid, I am not a granola, I just did not want to send any more cash than necessary to the a--holes in Saudi Arabia. I would be interested in a hybrid spyder, if, and only if, it had the performance to match the standard models. 57 hp, is not ever going to do it for me. Maybe as a commuter for some people, but I do this for fun and speed. 57 ponies?? That must be some sort of joke. Maybe if it was a children's version. I had my 12 year-old riding a snowmobile with more power than that! Just my 2 cents.

[billybovine]

I am all in favor of fuel efficiency and conservation, but am definitely NOT in favor of mandates from my government. I own a Tahoe hybrid, I am not a granola, I just did not want to send any more cash than necessary to the a--holes in Saudi Arabia. I would be interested in a hybrid spyder, if, and only if, it had the performance to match the standard models. 57 hp, is not ever going to do it for me. Maybe as a commuter for some people, but I do this for fun and speed. 57 ponies?? That must be some sort of joke. Maybe if it was a children's version. I had my 12 year-old riding a snowmobile with more power than that! Just my 2 cents.


If it is configured as a true hybrid under hard accelleration engine horse power is added to the electric motor horse power and that makes 83 hp. maybe a little on the low side but not that bad.

i would like the wheels, different color of course.

[daveinva]

:agree: Yeah, if it's a true hybrid it'll run on electric drive at low speeds, then electric+gas at high speeds, i.e. it ain't just 57 hp.

That said, if the performance can't at least equal the current RS, this holds no appeal to me. Who wouldn't love the extra mileage, but the current Rotax is barely adequate for the RS (and underpowered for the RT), so losing any more performance is a non-starter.

The real shame, frankly, is that they're not able to put this in the *RT* first. The extra range is wasted on the RS given its "around town" character, but the RT could definitely use the added touring range.

Of course, all of this assumes the price is equal to what they charge now. We all know that it won't be (unless we can get another infernal tax credit for this? :rolleyes:)

Anyway, it's neat stuff, hope it works, but honestly, at this early stage in the Spyder history I'd rather have had BRP spend the time and money putting a stronger engine into the RS and RT vice messing with a hybrid.

[WackyDan]

:agree: Yeah, if it's a true hybrid it'll run on electric drive at low speeds, then electric+gas at high speeds, i.e. it ain't just 57 hp.

That said, if the performance can't at least equal the current RS, this holds no appeal to me. Who wouldn't love the extra mileage, but the current Rotax is barely adequate for the RS (and underpowered for the RT), so losing any more performance is a non-starter.

The real shame, frankly, is that they're not able to put this in the *RT* first. The extra range is wasted on the RS given its "around town" character, but the RT could definitely use the added touring range.

Of course, all of this assumes the price is equal to what they charge now. We all know that it won't be (unless we can get another infernal tax credit for this? :rolleyes:)

Anyway, it's neat stuff, hope it works, but honestly, at this early stage in the Spyder history I'd rather have had BRP spend the time and money putting a stronger engine into the RS and RT vice messing with a hybrid.


Most hybrids shut down the electric motors at high speed so any hope for roll on performance out of this is moot.

The current Rotax in the RS could use more power, but considering that the stock spyder can't put down that power now is somewhat of a problem.

Many here will beg to differ on the RS being an "around the town" bike.

[BikerDoc]

Just like to see them wrap this up so they can think about and next generation Standard Spyder...

[ARtraveler]

Devils Advocate time:

Listening closely to the big picture message of the clip--We are a responsbile company looking to do our part to protect the environment. We are on track--but we will have to see what happens in the next years.

Reality: An environmental fluff commercial--with no specific details that count.

No information about production, cost, etc. Same thing we have been seeing for the last couple of years. I also would like to save gas and cheat the oil barons out of some cash--but am not willing to pay twice the value of the vehicle to do it. (Chevy Volt) and similar overpriced hybrids.

[packbuckbrew]

BRP has been a leader in producing some really revolutionary motors in snowmobiles that are very efficient and still have great power. The e-tec mills for example. If they really want to make these trikes more fuel efficient, they could start with cutting weight. Speed is not just about horsepower, it is also about power to weight ratios. Drag is another area where they might be able to improve fuel efficiency.

[wyliec]

Reality: An environmental fluff commercial--with no specific details that count.

No information about production, cost, etc. Same thing we have been seeing for the last couple of years. I also would like to save gas and cheat the oil barons out of some cash--but am not willing to pay twice the value of the vehicle to do it. (Chevy Volt) and similar overpriced hybrids.

So true! :thumbup: I also think your use of 'oil barons' is perfect.

[Marker]

The hybrid spyder was on display at the Toronto motorcycle show a few weeks back. BRP had it roped off and you could not get too close to it and all the panel s were on so you could not see the internal components. There is a plug on the side of the spyder?

[bone crusher]

Hey Doc,

I heard Donald Parmaleau is handling the R&D. After doing such a swell job with the 2010 GBR for the Magog Parade, the hybrid should be out by 2099.

:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

[bone crusher]

BRP has been a leader in producing some really revolutionary motors in snowmobiles that are very efficient and still have great power. The e-tec mills for example. If they really want to make these trikes more fuel efficient, they could start with cutting weight. Speed is not just about horsepower, it is also about power to weight ratios. Drag is another area where they might be able to improve fuel efficiency.

I don't know how much you can do with drag on a bike that is 5 feet wide. As far as weight goes, at just under 700 lbs., the RS is not heavy. I guess the RT is much heavier?

I think the only way to go on our type of bike is more HP/torque.

Personally, I wouldn't trade my bike in for anything, regardless of how new and cool it is. My GS is a 2008 and it's practically new..I don't ride enough to lose the thrill of being on it...

I was one of the first in my state in 2005 with a hybrid lexus RX and it was cool, but not worth it. As far as electric goes, not for me. Look at the problems the Volt is having already with them catching on fire.

[bone crusher]

:agree: Yeah, if it's a true hybrid it'll run on electric drive at low speeds, then electric+gas at high speeds, i.e. it ain't just 57 hp.

That said, if the performance can't at least equal the current RS, this holds no appeal to me. Who wouldn't love the extra mileage, but the current Rotax is barely adequate for the RS (and underpowered for the RT), so losing any more performance is a non-starter.

The real shame, frankly, is that they're not able to put this in the *RT* first. The extra range is wasted on the RS given its "around town" character, but the RT could definitely use the added touring range.

Of course, all of this assumes the price is equal to what they charge now. We all know that it won't be (unless we can get another infernal tax credit for this? :rolleyes:)

Anyway, it's neat stuff, hope it works, but honestly, at this early stage in the Spyder history I'd rather have had BRP spend the time and money putting a stronger engine into the RS and RT vice messing with a hybrid.

Traditionally, hybrids have faster acceleration as compared to their IC peers. I had the Lexus RX400h when it first came out...was a full second faster 0-60 than the then RX330. Consider the hybrid platform as acting almost like a super-charger. I got about 4-5 mpg better, no more. For the added expense, a hybrid is not worth it, to me...I wouldn't do that again...

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I could be wrong on this but don't electric motors have hugh amounts of torque compared to an equal gas engine.....Scotty ?????......Mike..:thumbup:

[Bob Denman]

hi bob .. thought you know that

69kg engine&generator - 600ccm 2 cilynder 57HP - 25 HP electro (Rotax ACE from skidoo)
don`t know the size/weight from the batterie .. think about 25 extra kg (depending how many miles you will be able to drive without fuel..)
the software to "connect" this two engines ... 10 x ?? the spyder-VSS-System ?
last problem - to produce a little noise when it runs in full-electro-modus ..
I hope they allow me some test-miles in the nearer future - I´ll take my R2D2 with me:)38404

Thanks Chris!
I hadn't seen any specs at all on it yet, so this gives me something to think about... I'm familiar with the ACE 600 engine; In fact the Missus and I were looking at sleds this past weekend with that mill under the hood...

[boborgera]

I could be wrong on this but don't electric motors have hugh amounts of torque compared to an equal gas engine.....Scotty ?????......Mike..:thumbup:

Yes they do, And the torque is instant. Zero to ??
It actually has to be tuned down or you won't be able to control it off the line.

[docdoru]

Yes they do, And the torque is instant. Zero to ??
It actually has to be tuned down or you won't be able to control it off the line.
Don't give them any ideas to throttle down the power plant, look what they did on the RS's with the original Rotax in Aprilia RSV Mille (ME 1998-2000 and RP 2001-2002), Tuono and SL 1000 Falco. :shocked:

[daveinva]

Many here will beg to differ on the RS being an "around the town" bike.

And I'd fight them to the death with a wet noodle, for it most certainly is when compared to an RT! :sour:

Some people are the shape, size and bone structure to get hundreds of miles out of the stock RS. Those five people all post here. :ohyea:

The rest of RS owners, however, are greatly aided by the addition or risers, windshields, highway pegs, footboards, and the all important upgraded seat.

That's why there are a thousand threads here that all say the same thing: DON'T buy an RS with the hopes of turning it into an RT. You'll just shovel money out the door, and it'll never be an RT.

Me, of course, I knew all of this before I shoveled my money out the door, but I did it knowingly, i.e. I wanted a customized *RS*, not an RT.

But before those mods, the RS was most definitely not a touring bike out of the box. :doorag:

My two cents, to each their own, YMMV, happy holidays! :D

[Bob Denman]

I wanted a customized *RS*, not an RT.

But before those mods, the RS was most definitely not a touring bike out of the box. :doorag:

My two cents, to each their own, YMMV, happy holidays! :D

...And the same to you and yours, Dave! :2thumbs:

[WackyDan]

And I'd fight them to the death with a wet noodle, for it most certainly is when compared to an RT! :sour:

Some people are the shape, size and bone structure to get hundreds of miles out of the stock RS. Those five people all post here. :ohyea:

The rest of RS owners, however, are greatly aided by the addition or risers, windshields, highway pegs, footboards, and the all important upgraded seat.

That's why there are a thousand threads here that all say the same thing: DON'T buy an RS with the hopes of turning it into an RT. You'll just shovel money out the door, and it'll never be an RT.

Me, of course, I knew all of this before I shoveled my money out the door, but I did it knowingly, i.e. I wanted a customized *RS*, not an RT.

But before those mods, the RS was most definitely not a touring bike out of the box. :doorag:

My two cents, to each their own, YMMV, happy holidays! :D


So you want to fight eh? :)

The RS is after all, a "sport tourer"... I don't disagree that the RT is more comfy out of the box for full on touring, but like you, I prefer the RS configured the way I want as a full blown tourer. * and you know that there are far more people on this forum that have racked up major touring miles on an GS/RS before they ever got an RT if they have moved to an RT yet at all. I don't begrudge anyone the choice of buying an rt versus an rs. When it comes to hybrids, I just don't see a hybrid spyder being feasible. Great PR, not a real product. If it is real, then I'll support the expansion of the product line by BRP, but I'm betting it won't find it's way to my garage unless the performance is there for the right value.

[Bob Denman]

"Different strokes for different folks"; right? :thumbup:

[chris56]

Yes they do, And the torque is instant. Zero to ??
It actually has to be tuned down or you won't be able to control it off the line.

the engine what KTM brings out next year should be like a 125ccm Bike but 2times the torque ..
7,4 kw / 22 KW ..means 10-30 HPs !!
43NM - 500Ups
batterie 300V - 2500 Wh (Li IONEN MANGAN) - 1,5 hours to load it up

the bike could be work also underwater water !!?! (1m is no problem)
the batterie can changed in some seconds to a new full laoded one ..
there is a wheel on the bars where you can easy change the torque sport/rain aso ..

so I think the spy-hybrid will be "stronger" and "faster" than the old one :D -but I`m a electrician and not so much a mechanical guy ..
and this wonder-engine will also fit in the RT- Modells ..

[spydee owner]

I am all in favor of fuel efficiency and conservation, but am definitely NOT in favor of mandates from my government. I own a Tahoe hybrid, I am not a granola, I just did not want to send any more cash than necessary to the a--holes in Saudi Arabia. I would be interested in a hybrid spyder, if, and only if, it had the performance to match the standard models. 57 hp, is not ever going to do it for me. Maybe as a commuter for some people, but I do this for fun and speed. 57 ponies?? That must be some sort of joke. Maybe if it was a children's version. I had my 12 year-old riding a snowmobile with more power than that! Just my 2 cents.

Rewatch the video. The performance targets are 50% less emissions, 50% increase in fuel economy and all with the same performance as the current spyders. Nothing was said about 57 hp being the final output on this bike.

As far as sending more money to the Saudis, you need look no further than your own American oil companies. They ,as well as, oil companies in most other countries are all complicit in the price setting (fixing) for petroleum products in my opinion.

[spydee owner]

BRP has been a leader in producing some really revolutionary motors in snowmobiles that are very efficient and still have great power. The e-tec mills for example. If they really want to make these trikes more fuel efficient, they could start with cutting weight. Speed is not just about horsepower, it is also about power to weight ratios. Drag is another area where they might be able to improve fuel efficiency.

It is true that BRP is a leader in engine technology not only on land but on the water and in the air.
They could cut weight by using aluminum frame and titanium bits and pieces, but I would think that they have a trade off for this kind of thing when it comes to what the consumers are willing to pay. BRP could have these bikes (just as an example) getting 70 miles per gallon and 0 to 60 mph in 3 seconds but when they say "Oh by the way the unit price is $40,000" the consumers would be leaving them in the showroom.
I think that if BRP decides to offer this hybrid for sale it will do exactly what they say it will do before it hits the showrooms. In other words it won't be an edsel. :)

[wyliec]

As far as sending more money to the Saudis, you need look no further than your own American oil companies. They ,as well as, oil companies in most other countries are all complicit in the price setting (fixing) for petroleum products in my opinion.

I agree, which is why I agreed with the other member when he said 'oil barons.' The poster that mentioned a--holes from Saudi may want to read this, before name calling:

http://money.howstuffworks.com/oil-speculation-raise-gas-price.htm