Vibration -- Motor Mount Clearance

[gypsy_100]

Following up on SpyderJeff's good information that he had seen some 2011 RT's with insufficient clearance between the frame and the engine "cradle" as the motor mounts seem to have settled down and let the cradle touch the frame. When I had the splash pan off to change the oil the other day, I managed to get underneath and view the situation from there rather than trying to see the motor mounts from the top. Looking forward from where the splash pan would be, I took a couple photos of what I saw:
3759037591
It appears the cradle is hitting on the raised weld bead of the frame, shown by the arrows. I managed to get a piece of paper in between the two but I could not get a standard business card in between. That's how close -- certainly close enough be a problem when the engine is vibrating under load.

I showed this to my dealer. His BRP tech had just returned from school and he said this was talked about but didn't know of a specific BRP solution. He had not seen this yet himself. The dealer called BRP and reported to them that my VIN number had the problem and what should they do. BRP responded with a faxed procedure to shim the front motor mounts and they offer BRP shims made to do the job. They said that later in 2011 production these shims were installed during production (mine was built in April). They said the shims were 2.5mm, quite a bit less than SpyderJeff's 4.5mm which I believe BRP had told him.

Anyway, bottom line is my dealer ordered the shims from BRP and has the procedure in hand. If the snow isn't flying when they get the shims, I'll be the guinea pig and have him do the procedure. Sounds like a major job to me but better than vibration for the next 100K. When I get the job done, I'll report back on the results. Thanks Spyder Jeff for alerting me to this possibility. If you don't look for it, you'll never see it. And if the dealer doesn't ask BRP the question, they'll never get the procedure.

[NancysToy]

Thanks for the update. My 2011 appears to be in need, too. If you can get the part number for the shims, it would really help.

[gypsy_100]

Hi Scotty. The on-line 2012 parts manual shows the shims -- 707001074, 2 required. According to the diagram, they go on the lower side of the rubber piece, that is, away from the engine. If you were sliding them into position, you would slide them from the outside inward.

I checked the rubber mounts themselves and they are the same part numbers for 2011 and 2012 (70700815). Ditto for the steel cradle or "front engine support" as BRP calls it (707001072). Since these parts are the same, it's quite possible that these 2012 shims are what they're using to retrofit any problematic 2011's. Makes sense to me. When my parts come in, I'll try to find out the numbers just to be sure.

That's the good news. The bad news is it sounds like a major operation to retrofit. I asked the dealer what the procedure involved that BRP had faxed him. When he started reading me the highlights over the phone, I decided it sounds a lot like the procedure in the manual for replacing the motor mounts: remove all plastic including the glove box and central panel, loosen the drive belt, loosen the rear engine support, move the oil cooler and tank out of the way, move the radiator out of the way, use the special "engine lifting" tool to support the engine from above, and then remove the front engine mounts. It makes me shudder to have to tear a new machine apart like that. I was hoping there would be an "easy" method where you could just loosen the mounts, jack up the engine from the bottom and slide the shims into position. Since I haven't seen in detail the full procedure that BRP gave my dealer, hopefully I'm being too pessimistic and the procedure isn't as bad as the motor mount replacement procedure. Realistically, it probably is.

[gypsy_100]

My dealer called yesterday and left a message that BRP told him the shims were backordered with no estimate of when they'd be available. Sounds mighty strange to me that parts used in current 2012 production are not available. Unless the retrofit shims are different but I doubt that.

With the snow starting to fly, it may be a moot point anyway. But it's not a comforting thought to learn that a part, any part let alone a current production part, is on backorder with no estimate of shipping. Honda did that to me once on a part for a motorcycle; I received the part in a few days. Hopefully BRP will come thru.

[CyncySpyder]

I need to get a space heater for Teddys garage so I can check into this. Seems like if it isn't one thing to be checking, its another :banghead:

[Marker]

Is this a problem on the RT 2010 models too ? That needs to be brought to my dealers attention as I have a 2010 RTS SE5

[gypsy_100]

Talked with Carlo at BRP today. He said the shims would be available to dealers by the end of the year. If we aren't snowed in (as far as riding goes) by then, I'll get 'er fixed.

[netta]

would this be covered under warranty?

[SPYDERJEFF]

would this be covered under warranty?

This is coved under warranty as long as your machine still is. 2010 RT's can also be effected as the motor mounts will settle even more after the left motor mount frame tab is notched. We have built our own U-shape shims and now we set up the clearance at 2mm (at first we had clearance at 4.5mm using washers to shim). If anyone has any questions on this feel free to call me at the shop if you like. I know its starting to get a bit confused so Im happy to help ya all out any way I can.38403(as you can see in this pic the eng craddle slowly settles as the rubber mounts get broken in,,thus the vibration will occur slowly. This units craddle is resting on the frame and it can go un noticed unless the tech knows what to look for)

Jeff
360-825-4502
Clem's Enumclaw Powersports

[Tonga]

This is coved under warranty as long as your machine still is. 2010 RT's can also be effected as the motor mounts will settle even more after the left motor mount frame tab is notched. We have built our own U-shape shims and now we set up the clearance at 2mm (at first we had clearance at 4.5mm using washers to shim). If anyone has any questions on this feel free to call me at the shop if you like. I know its starting to get a bit confused so Im happy to help ya all out any way I can.38403(as you can see in this pic the eng craddle slowly settles as the rubber mounts get broken in,,thus the vibration will occur slowly. This units craddle is resting on the frame and it can go un noticed unless the tech knows what to look for)

Jeff
360-825-4502
Clem's Enumclaw Powersports

Hi Jeff. Thanks for the picture. From what I see it looks as if there is a rubber shim v shaped from the factory that flattens and I think you are putting a shim under it to get the engine up higher? Am I right?

[gypsy_100]

Hi Jeff. Glad you weighed in on this. Seems like you have done more of these than anyone else. Have you found an easier procedure than what I outlined earlier, that is the shop manual procedure for removing the motor mounts? Pretty extensive process but if that's the right way to do it, then so be it. It'll be a "first" for my tech so he may not have any shortcuts at this point. Just wondering what I and he can look forward to. Thanks.

[SPYDERJEFF]

[QUOTE=gypsy_100;399829]Hi Jeff. Glad you weighed in on this. Seems like you have done more of these than anyone else. Have you found an easier procedure than what I outlined earlier, that is the shop manual procedure for removing the motor mounts? Pretty extensive process but if that's the right way to do it, then so be it. It'll be a "first" for my tech so he may

You are correct in your details of what needs to be done in order to access the motor mounts (they don't need to be removed however). It takes us 2.5 to 3hrs to complete the job. The horse shoe style shim will slide in so the motor only has to be raised 3mm or so. At this point we are making our own shims as BRP continues to work on the issue. Hope this helps.

Jeff

[zrc]

[QUOTE=gypsy_100;399829]Hi Jeff. Glad you weighed in on this. Seems like you have done more of these than anyone else. Have you found an easier procedure than what I outlined earlier, that is the shop manual procedure for removing the motor mounts? Pretty extensive process but if that's the right way to do it, then so be it. It'll be a "first" for my tech so he may

You are correct in your details of what needs to be done in order to access the motor mounts (they don't need to be removed however). It takes us 2.5 to 3hrs to complete the job. The horse shoe style shim will slide in so the motor only has to be raised 3mm or so. At this point we are making our own shims as BRP continues to work on the issue. Hope this helps.

Jeff

<< Incoming thread jack >>
Is that a CRT monitor in your avatar? do they make those still?

[Tonga]

This is coved under warranty as long as your machine still is. 2010 RT's can also be effected as the motor mounts will settle even more after the left motor mount frame tab is notched. We have built our own U-shape shims and now we set up the clearance at 2mm (at first we had clearance at 4.5mm using washers to shim). If anyone has any questions on this feel free to call me at the shop if you like. I know its starting to get a bit confused so Im happy to help ya all out any way I can.38403(as you can see in this pic the eng craddle slowly settles as the rubber mounts get broken in,,thus the vibration will occur slowly. This units craddle is resting on the frame and it can go un noticed unless the tech knows what to look for)

Jeff
360-825-4502
Clem's Enumclaw Powersports

A great picture but I looked under my Spyder and my panels for oil change are removed and still can not see the area. It must be ahead and near the rad or oil resivoir ??

[Marker]

This is coved under warranty as long as your machine still is. 2010 RT's can also be effected as the motor mounts will settle even more after the left motor mount frame tab is notched. We have built our own U-shape shims and now we set up the clearance at 2mm (at first we had clearance at 4.5mm using washers to shim). If anyone has any questions on this feel free to call me at the shop if you like. I know its starting to get a bit confused so Im happy to help ya all out any way I can.38403(as you can see in this pic the eng craddle slowly settles as the rubber mounts get broken in,,thus the vibration will occur slowly. This units craddle is resting on the frame and it can go un noticed unless the tech knows what to look for)

Jeff
360-825-4502
Clem's Enumclaw Powersports

Thanks for your input !! Does BRP have a bulletin number yet and should I get my dealer to check the motor mounts on my 2010RTS SE5 ?

[SPYDERJEFF]

Thanks for your input !! Does BRP have a bulletin number yet and should I get my dealer to check the motor mounts on my 2010RTS SE5 ?

Just replaced that old pc over the summer if you can believe that :D. It is hard to see the area where the craddle is but it can be done if you look from the oil bag side with the panel off and from the ground up. Its a bit easier with it on the lift so from the ground it can be rough. Even when you see the area its hard to see so its important to put a feeler gauge or something like it and slide it in the center of the craddle. If it doesnt want to fall through then it needs shimed. BRP has no bulletin number as of this date. They do warranty the job however if yours requires. I do recommend your dealer check yours. Keep in mind that in many cases we have found the craddles touching and the customer had reported no abnormal vibration. After the fix they are amazed at how much smoother the ride is. It seems there all going to need it at some point.


Jeff

[Gordy]

Im sure this is the problem with my rts it has gotten very noisy the last while, getting vibration on foot pegs and sounds like driving over grates, even bothers my ears, worse if going into wind.Mine has 35000 kms

[Marker]

Just replaced that old pc over the summer if you can believe that :D. It is hard to see the area where the craddle is but it can be done if you look from the oil bag side with the panel off and from the ground up. Its a bit easier with it on the lift so from the ground it can be rough. Even when you see the area its hard to see so its important to put a feeler gauge or something like it and slide it in the center of the craddle. If it doesnt want to fall through then it needs shimed. BRP has no bulletin number as of this date. They do warranty the job however if yours requires. I do recommend your dealer check yours. Keep in mind that in many cases we have found the craddles touching and the customer had reported no abnormal vibration. After the fix they are amazed at how much smoother the ride is. It seems there all going to need it at some point.


Jeff

Thanks SpyderJeff (Jeff) for your information. I will speak to my dealer over the winter about the problem and have him check it when the spyder comes out of storage. I like it when dealers and technicians chime in to help.
Thanks again Merry Christmas

Mark

[bluestratos]

I am a little concerned that BRP has not address this problem in a proactive way. My dealer is an 1 1/2 hours away and works by appointment only. If they do not see a problem yet I will have to pay for the inspection, but it is just a matter of time before the vibration will appear as I believe I may have some rubbing now. BRP has been great to me so I am only concerned that they may have overlooked this issue as my dealer said they have never had bike in for this repair. I will inspect next oil change just to keep an eye open.

Regards,

Randy

[SPYDERJEFF]

I am a little concerned that BRP has not address this problem in a proactive way. My dealer is an 1 1/2 hours away and works by appointment only. If they do not see a problem yet I will have to pay for the inspection, but it is just a matter of time before the vibration will appear as I believe I may have some rubbing now. BRP has been great to me so I am only concerned that they may have overlooked this issue as my dealer said they have never had bike in for this repair. I will inspect next oil change just to keep an eye open.

Regards,

Randy

We have spoken with BRP a lot about this vibration issue. It is important to understand this can easily be fixed if your dealer is willing to take the time and check. A good time to do it is during a service that way no extra time is required if its not touching. However, if your machine is vibrating have it done now as it makes a major difference and you will be glad you did. We have seen units just out of the crate that are touching and have vibration at pdi (just early 2011 models). By the way, late production 2011 and all 2012 Spyders are shimed from the factory. It may be that no campaign ever gets issued and that makes it even more important you have this inspected before your warranty runs out. Due to the fact you really have to get in there to see where it rubs (use a feeler thick type ruller) and that most customers with the vibration aren't aware of it many dealers have never fixed one. We have had more than one customer come in and during our test ride thier unit vibrated. We called them and asked if they noticed any abnormal vibration from when it was new, they stated no. We shimed it and they were blown away at how much smoother thier Spyder was. Saying it had never been that smooth!

[Farmboy]

last week end I had my 2010 rt apart and noticed that the front cyl. pipe where the cat attaches, is touching the motor block, about an inch above the clamp. Wouldent think that would be normal. Would it?

[bluestratos]

We have spoken with BRP a lot about this vibration issue. It is important to understand this can easily be fixed if your dealer is willing to take the time and check. A good time to do it is during a service that way no extra time is required if its not touching. However, if your machine is vibrating have it done now as it makes a major difference and you will be glad you did. We have seen units just out of the crate that are touching and have vibration at pdi (just early 2011 models). By the way, late production 2011 and all 2012 Spyders are shimed from the factory. It may be that no campaign ever gets issued and that makes it even more important you have this inspected before your warranty runs out. Due to the fact you really have to get in there to see where it rubs (use a feeler thick type ruller) and that most customers with the vibration aren't aware of it many dealers have never fixed one. We have had more than one customer come in and during our test ride thier unit vibrated. We called them and asked if they noticed any abnormal vibration from when it was new, they stated no. We shimed it and they were blown away at how much smoother thier Spyder was. Saying it had never been that smooth!

I do my own service until a major comes up and since I put very few miles on each year I may be out of warranty if it does arise. If I have to bring it back in for some other issues I will ask them to look at then but other wise it will be at my own cost. I bought my in June so I believe it would be an early production model and likely to vibrate if not already.

Regards,

Randy