To spyder or not spyder, that is the question...

[aka1004]

Well after my engine locked up only after 17 miles with newly rebuilt engine and my hopes of riding was crushed, I am truly done with this spyder. Even if they fix it again, how can I enjoy it with constant worries. It's been in the shop since last September basically but I am still making my payments, paying for insurance and registration without a ride.

Salesman at the dealer says they will appraise my spyder as running bike if and when warranty repair is approved but if they they try to take advantage of my situation, I will just have to wait till it's fixed (may be another 3-4 month) and take it to another dealer.

I really can not see myself giving more money to brp after what brp and this spyder have put me thru but I don't know if I am up for conventional motorcycling again. :cus::(:mad::gaah:

[boborgera]

I hear you, I'm ready to bail any day now myself :sour:

[dvmdf]

Well after my engine locked up only after 17 miles with newly rebuilt engine and my hopes of riding was crushed, I am truly done with this spyder. Even if they fix it again, how can I enjoy it with constant worries. It's been in the shop since last September basically but I am still making my payments, paying for insurance and registration without a ride.

Salesman at the dealer says they will appraise my spyder as running bike if and when warranty repair is approved but if they they try to take advantage of my situation, I will just have to wait till it's fixed (may be another 3-4 month) and take it to another dealer.

I really can not see myself giving more money to brp after what brp and this spyder have put me thru but I don't know if I am up for conventional motorcycling again. :cus::(:mad::gaah:
I am in LA also which dealer do you go to?

[IWN2RYD]

This is unacceptable. Why the engine did this is of no debate. The events you have gone through are to great.

If I may...

Had this situation happened to me, I would not work through the dealer at this time. I would work the phones @ BRP until I got high enough up the ladder to get this issue resolved (IN other words a person who makes decisions not a hourly employee asking the person who does) in the next two weeks (Reasonable time to have an answer to how this is going to be resolved).

While you're knee deep in remorse and disappointment, it IS BRP's job to find a fast and reasonable solution to this. nojoke

[Sny]

I have to agree. A newly rebuilt motor gone after 17 miles means their tech totally screwed something up. Badly.

3-4 months to fix it? What are they forging and machining the parts themselves? I rolled my Spyder, you can imagine the damage. They stripped it bare and checked, scoped and fondled every piece. It was done in a week.

Get BRP on the horn. They've been coming down hard on dealerships that cannot handle working on Spyders due to insufficient training, experience or skillset.

Even if you plan on selling (I can fully understand your frustration); Do this for the rest of us. Make a bad dealer good, or gone.

[Big Arm]

I have to agree. A newly rebuilt motor gone after 17 miles means their tech totally screwed something up. Badly.

3-4 months to fix it? What are they forging and machining the parts themselves? I rolled my Spyder, you can imagine the damage. They stripped it bare and checked, scoped and fondled every piece. It was done in a week.

Get BRP on the horn. They've been coming down hard on dealerships that cannot handle working on Spyders due to insufficient training, experience or skillset.

Even if you plan on selling (I can fully understand your frustration); Do this for the rest of us. Make a bad dealer good, or gone.


This is unacceptable. Why the engine did this is of no debate. The events you have gone through are to great.

If I may...

Had this situation happened to me, I would not work through the dealer at this time. I would work the phones @ BRP until I got high enough up the ladder to get this issue resolved (IN other words a person who makes decisions not a hourly employee asking the person who does) in the next two weeks (Reasonable time to have an answer to how this is going to be resolved).

While you're knee deep in remorse and disappointment, it IS BRP's job to find a fast and reasonable solution to this. nojoke

:agree: :2thumbs:

[aka1004]

It's sitting at Malcolm smith motorsports in riverside.
I picked it up on 18th after over 3 month, was heading to our office 19 miles away and couldn't pull that off. I was keeping my eyes on gauges but no sign of problems till it blew smoke and oil out of muffler and locked up. Spark plug looked like broken bolt. they were already closed so I towed it to our office and call them on Monday and that's all they have done since than, pulling the rear spark plug out.

This was second engine tear down. Spyder went in the shop in September for main shaft replacement and I got it back in February and was able to ride it for 8 whole days before engine died on me.

My warranty with brp had expired in november so Malcolm smith got western service contract to pay for last engine rebuild. They were saying engine failure was not related to their first engine tear down and I guess western agreed.

I think the reason they have not started repair process yet is the service manager was not in last 8 days and service writer feels he needs to discuss with manager first how they are going to handles. I mean I am sure western service contract co. is going to have some questions. 17 miles...

However, they have started process of pinning this on me. He asked me what rpm range do I shift and I said 5000-7000, usually and he goes "what? That's so high! 7000 rpm?"

[LennyO]

It's sitting at Malcolm smith motorsports in riverside.
I picked it up on 18th after over 3 month, was heading to our office 19 miles away and couldn't pull that off. I was keeping my eyes on gauges but no sign of problems till it blew smoke and oil out of muffler and locked up. Spark plug looked like broken bolt. they were already closed so I towed it to our office and call them on Monday and that's all they have done since than, pulling the rear spark plug out.

This was second engine tear down. Spyder went in the shop in September for main shaft replacement and I got it back in February and was able to ride it for 8 whole days before engine died on me.

My warranty with brp had expired in november so Malcolm smith got western service contract to pay for last engine rebuild. They were saying engine failure was not related to their first engine tear down and I guess western agreed.

I think the reason they have not started repair process yet is the service manager was not in last 8 days and service writer feels he needs to discuss with manager first how they are going to handles. I mean I am sure western service contract co. is going to have some questions. 17 miles...

However, they have started process of pinning this on me. He asked me what rpm range do I shift and I said 5000-7000, usually and he goes "what? That's so high! 7000 rpm?"

Holly crap!!!! :yikes::yikes::yikes:
Your posts make me think again about buying....
Good luck to both of you. I will be watching with interest..

[bill pitman]

My personal opinion- Don't let any dealers rebuild an engine. The risk of problems is too great. Once BRP says "rebuild engine" a new/certified rebuilt from "engine factory" should be sent to the dealer and the old,nasty,bad engine sent back to BRP for "certified" rebuild.
JMO

Bill

[bill pitman]

Unless it's from Doc. In that case , scrap metal money!!:roflblack:

Wilbur

[aka1004]

Holly crap!!!! :yikes::yikes::yikes:
Your posts make me think again about buying....
Good luck to both of you. I will be watching with interest..

Don't get m wrong. I love spyder when it's not in shop. It is the best ride I've had with any number of wheels.
I just happen to get a rottenest apple out of the barrel.
My warranty repair numbers are now at 26.
All brp have done is telling me to take it in have them look at it but dealers started to refuse service my spyder or not do anything while it's in their shop because after so many repairs, they ran out parts to throw at my spyder. Dealers don't get paid for diagnostics, but gets paid only when a part is replaced/repaired. Add mechanics who don't get a hourly wage but paid by piece work... One dealer flat out said they're loosing money on my spyder.

I hear Carlo is doing a good job but before Carlo, customer service was a foreign word at brp.

[LennyO]

Don't get m wrong. I love spyder when it's not in shop. It is the best ride I've had with any number of wheels.
I just happen to get a rottenest apple out of the barrel.
My warranty repair numbers are now at 26.
All brp have done is telling me to take it in have them look at it but dealers started to refuse service my spyder or not do anything while it's in their shop because after so many repairs, they ran out parts to throw at my spyder. Dealers don't get paid for diagnostics, but gets paid only when a part is replaced/repaired. Add mechanics who don't get a hourly wage but paid by piece work... One dealer flat out said they're loosing money on my spyder.

I hear Carlo is doing a good job but before Carlo, customer service was a foreign word at brp.

Oh well... with my luck, I will get a LEMON TREE... :gaah:

[ARtraveler]

I recommend your working through BRP and Carlo.

It sounds like you have a bad dealer service dept. 26 times for warranty repairs is way to much. I would have sold it long ago. You are actually a very patient person.

Give them another couple weeks like an earlier post suggested--talk with BRP--not the dealership.

Keep us posted.

Lenny: this is an exception rather than the way most :spyder2:'s are.

[bone crusher]

It's sitting at Malcolm smith motorsports in riverside.
I picked it up on 18th after over 3 month, was heading to our office 19 miles away and couldn't pull that off. I was keeping my eyes on gauges but no sign of problems till it blew smoke and oil out of muffler and locked up. Spark plug looked like broken bolt. they were already closed so I towed it to our office and call them on Monday and that's all they have done since than, pulling the rear spark plug out.

This was second engine tear down. Spyder went in the shop in September for main shaft replacement and I got it back in February and was able to ride it for 8 whole days before engine died on me.

My warranty with brp had expired in november so Malcolm smith got western service contract to pay for last engine rebuild. They were saying engine failure was not related to their first engine tear down and I guess western agreed.

I think the reason they have not started repair process yet is the service manager was not in last 8 days and service writer feels he needs to discuss with manager first how they are going to handles. I mean I am sure western service contract co. is going to have some questions. 17 miles...

However, they have started process of pinning this on me. He asked me what rpm range do I shift and I said 5000-7000, usually and he goes "what? That's so high! 7000 rpm?"

First of all, Carlo will tell you that the Rotax is a high revving engine...second, nothing you did destroyed an engine after 17 miles...did they put oil in it?

Third, get Carlo to get you a new engine, period. Enough is enough. I'm a big fan of BRP, but I'm not so much that I cannot see when someone is taken advantage of. Geeez, they need to right this for you, and now.

Anything short of a proper fix is not good enough...at this point, they can get you a new engine or a new bike.

We have all these 'ambassadors' running around...as far as I'm concerned, they mean nothing if the company they are representing can't get a bike fixed after how many tries? Get Carlo on the horn...and quickly...

[dvmdf]

It's sitting at Malcolm smith motorsports in riverside.
I picked it up on 18th after over 3 month, was heading to our office 19 miles away and couldn't pull that off. I was keeping my eyes on gauges but no sign of problems till it blew smoke and oil out of muffler and locked up. Spark plug looked like broken bolt. they were already closed so I towed it to our office and call them on Monday and that's all they have done since than, pulling the rear spark plug out.

This was second engine tear down. Spyder went in the shop in September for main shaft replacement and I got it back in February and was able to ride it for 8 whole days before engine died on me.

My warranty with brp had expired in november so Malcolm smith got western service contract to pay for last engine rebuild. They were saying engine failure was not related to their first engine tear down and I guess western agreed.

I think the reason they have not started repair process yet is the service manager was not in last 8 days and service writer feels he needs to discuss with manager first how they are going to handles. I mean I am sure western service contract co. is going to have some questions. 17 miles...

However, they have started process of pinning this on me. He asked me what rpm range do I shift and I said 5000-7000, usually and he goes "what? That's so high! 7000 rpm?"
Have you considered a Lemon Law attorney? Sounds like your case would qualify. Get your money back, get new spyder or another bike, end of problem

[aka1004]

Brp warranty is expired. Last engine rebuild was paid for by western service contract co., a 3rd party extended warranty co.
Spyder was an impulse buy and this was what they were pitching, very very hard. I was not even aware of best.

In any Case, they cover the $4500 bill without any resistance but I am guessing they might have few questions this time.

[Firefly]

I fully understand your disappointment on this whole deal --- and I really think this is mainly a DEALER issue--- but there are some variables here that are making this situation more complicated..... mainly that it sounds like you have a 3rd party warranty through 'western service' ??

This throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing--- now it's a 3 way problem between the dealer, BRP and western..... I feel your pain !

I personally wouldn't trust any warranty other than BEST --- which is the one provided by BRP --- even though it's probably a third party--- BRP makes it clear there is a close 'relationship' between them and BEST.

Then comes the issue of an (apparently) unqualified tech throwing your engine back together---- TWICE.

As I've said before--- BRP needs to set up a rebuild engine exchange system for these instead of leaving it to the local dealer to rebuild. The techs at BRP can rebuild one correctly and quicker I'm sure.

I'd lean towards trading it in and getting a new one-- and then finding a better dealer for service.

Bummer for sure!

[NancysToy]

Well, I don't see where BRP is a party to this at all. Failures outside the BRP warranty period, either the factory warranty or the BEST extension, are unfortunately none of their concern. This is strictly a dealer issue, although it could soon also become an insurance issue, which is what the private warranty is...insurance. Frankly, I think the dealer will have to make this right out of his own pocket. His negligence almost certainly caused the failure in that few miles. Depending on your state laws, you probably have a right to expect a reasonable amount of service from the new engine...certainly not 17 miles. Most "10 minutes or 50 feet" warranties have been outlawed. You may have to go to court to be made whole, however, I'm sorry to say. I sure hope the dealer steps up to the plate and restores my faith in humanity.

[Firefly]

Well, I don't see where BRP is a party to this at all. Failures outside the BRP warranty period, either the factory warranty or the BEST extension, are unfortunately none of their concern. This is strictly a dealer issue, although it could soon also become an insurance issue, which is what the private warranty is...insurance. Frankly, I think the dealer will have to make this right out of his own pocket. His negligence almost certainly caused the failure in that few miles. Depending on your state laws, you probably have a right to expect a reasonable amount of service from the new engine...certainly not 17 miles. Most "10 minutes or 50 feet" warranties have been outlawed. You may have to go to court to be made whole, however, I'm sorry to say. I sure hope the dealer steps up to the plate and restores my faith in humanity.

Good points---- the dealer should also have 'employee negligence' insurance under such cases.....

[aka1004]

My spyder had most known issues that other spyders had except that when some spyders had this, others had that problem but mine had the complete package of issues. From front sprockets to rear fender to bad ecu, Evap can, bent rotors, etc. I mean you name it my spyder had it. Engine was the only thing that was performing without much problem even thru all kinda codes until the first engine tear down for main shaft replacement that took 4 month.

Yes I did try lemon law suit but my Mac-lawyer ran away crying when brp's big time lawyer began to twist their arms. Brp lawyer even threaten me with countersuit for $15000 they spent on investigating the case.
I don't know if it's true or not but according to my Mac-lawyer, brp spent $50000+ on my case. He was familiar with opposing councel and said they get a flat fee for case

The last word from my lawyer was "it's not what happen that's important in court, it's it's what can be proved and how it's presented that's important.

[aka1004]

Well, I don't see where BRP is a party to this at all. Failures outside the BRP warranty period, either the factory warranty or the BEST extension, are unfortunately none of their concern. This is strictly a dealer issue, although it could soon also become an insurance issue, which is what the private warranty is...insurance. Frankly, I think the dealer will have to make this right out of his own pocket. His negligence almost certainly caused the failure in that few miles. Depending on your state laws, you probably have a right to expect a reasonable amount of service from the new engine...certainly not 17 miles. Most "10 minutes or 50 feet" warranties have been outlawed. You may have to go to court to be made whole, however, I'm sorry to say. I sure hope the dealer steps up to the plate and restores my faith in humanity.

I explained that I had Western service contract warranty but I guess some of my postings were bit long for people to read thoroughly. :D
Brp is not involved in this issue but they did not do enough to take care of all the problems I had with spyder.

[retiredsquid]

If BRP cared about their reputation they would make the bike right. I'll guarantee you that I would be raising several kinds of holy cane if my Spyder had that many problems and sat at a dealer's shop for weeks on end. I treat my Spyder as my primary mode of transportation and expect the same level of service I get from Ford for my truck and from Chevy for my Corvette.

Lemon Laws need to apply to motorcycles the same as they do for cars and trucks. BRP might wake up then. Maybe the BRP warranty is expired, but if the warranty was extended day for day while down in the shop it might be a different story. Besides, if it is like with automobile warranties the dealerships have a lot of latitude when one is close or slightly over warranty period, especially for problem vehicles.

[aka1004]

This was just me venting my frustration over last two and half years with spyder and brp along with all the joys spyder has brought and now this with engine/dealer issues.
There are a lot more spyders on the road these days, here in California anyway and I've seen as many as 4 in a day. Every time I see one, I feel this pain in my heart... I know it may be silly but I really loved time I spent on my spyder despite of all the problems.

I think it's time to move on, at least from this spyder.
I am torn between another spyder or 2-wheeler. Service writer thinks I am nuts to even consider another spyder.

[ScottyB]

Without a doubt you have a very strong case as far as the LEMON LAW goes. If you go down that avenue as a last ditch effort and can't get anywhere or you have had enough, make sure you have documented everything to date of all pertaining to your Spyder.
Then start your research about how to file or get a Lemon Law attorney.

[darren]

Well after my engine locked up only after 17 miles with newly rebuilt engine and my hopes of riding was crushed, I am truly done with this spyder. Even if they fix it again, how can I enjoy it with constant worries. It's been in the shop since last September basically but I am still making my payments, paying for insurance and registration without a ride.

Salesman at the dealer says they will appraise my spyder as running bike if and when warranty repair is approved but if they they try to take advantage of my situation, I will just have to wait till it's fixed (may be another 3-4 month) and take it to another dealer.

I really can not see myself giving more money to brp after what brp and this spyder have put me thru but I don't know if I am up for conventional motorcycling again. :cus::(:mad::gaah:
Why did they bother to rebuild the engine when mine had the vibration thur it they ended up just replacing the old engine for a new complete unit it took time to get it done but they done it , keep hounding your dealer and brp and don't stop until they do it, every day if you have to and also buy some lemon stickers and place them all over it im sure that brp and the dealer would not like to explain to new buyers why it has them on it.
Hope you come out of it well and god bless

[WackyDan]

Yes I did try lemon law suit but my Mac-lawyer ran away crying when brp's big time lawyer began to twist their arms. Brp lawyer even threaten me with countersuit for $15000 they spent on investigating the case.
I don't know if it's true or not but according to my Mac-lawyer, brp spent $50000+ on my case. He was familiar with opposing councel and said they get a flat fee for case

NICE. Been seeing too many poor examples of BRP behaving badly lately. I know they aren't always going to get every customer issue right, especially when by time they get involved the dealer has already screwed things up enough as is.... But... I hate seeing more and more of these negative responses here.

Good luck man. I wouldn't blame you for going back to two wheels for a bit. Heck, it might even be fun.

[spyder3]

How can the dealer not be liable for this?:gaah:

This is like the old "driveway warantee". The minute you leave the driveway the warantee is up. Total :cus:

BRP just can't seem to step up when it counts in most cases. In this case, put some pressure on the dealer who :cus: up the rebuild.

PS. You need a new lawyer:dontknow:

[bone crusher]

I fully understand your disappointment on this whole deal --- and I really think this is mainly a DEALER issue--- but there are some variables here that are making this situation more complicated..... mainly that it sounds like you have a 3rd party warranty through 'western service' ??

This throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing--- now it's a 3 way problem between the dealer, BRP and western..... I feel your pain !

I personally wouldn't trust any warranty other than BEST --- which is the one provided by BRP --- even though it's probably a third party--- BRP makes it clear there is a close 'relationship' between them and BEST.

Then comes the issue of an (apparently) unqualified tech throwing your engine back together---- TWICE.

As I've said before--- BRP needs to set up a rebuild engine exchange system for these instead of leaving it to the local dealer to rebuild. The techs at BRP can rebuild one correctly and quicker I'm sure.

I'd lean towards trading it in and getting a new one-- and then finding a better dealer for service.

Bummer for sure!

BEST, BEST, BEST...only way to go! +1

[aka1004]

Well Carlo contacted me and he is going to have brp tech contact the dealer. It turns out it doesn't matter whether I have best or 3rd party extended warranty, brp will help either way.
May be they can get Malcolm smith motorsports to shape up.
:2thumbs: for Carlo.

[dlycan2]

Love hearing that!!!!:2thumbs:

[LennyO]

Let me be the first one to say YEAH, Finally!!!!
Kick some ass for all of us!

[aka1004]

Whether Carlo can actually do anything is unknown at this point and time but I do appreciate the jesture nevertheless. :thumbup:

[murphybrown]

Thanks for letting us know that Carlo is on board. Way to go Carlo/BRP...keep us posted.

[COOLMACHINE]

Very sorry to hear of your woes. You see what I am riding now......
For me it was not rocket science. I had 3 bikes before the Spyder.
2 Kaw's and 1 Suzuki. Repairs to all 3 of those machines and 75XXX total miles consisted of 2 clutch cables and 1 battery.
Love the 3-wheel configuration but not BRP. Unfortunately I will not own another BRP product. I hope someone else makes this 3-wheel configuration such as Kaw, Suz, Yam, or Honda. I'll be first in line as long as it is in my price range.

[aka1004]

I got a call from Malcolm smith motorsports and was told it will be another 10 days before they can get to my spyder... That would make it 3 weeks in shop.

I am sure they are busy with watercraft but you would think if your spyder breaks down after 17 miles after they took 3 month to complete the work, they would move it up the line.

Service manager would not take my call or return my calls.
Next step, go in and talk to GM or the owner, I guess...

[aka1004]

I think it might be possible that Malcolm smith motorsports is lurking here too now...
About 30 minutes after I posted my last post, i got a call from the service manager...

[boborgera]

I think it might be possible that Malcolm smith motorsports is lurking here too now...
About 30 minutes after I posted my last post, i got a call from the service manager...

SOoo....:popcorn::popcorn:

[aka1004]

He said my spyder IS a priority but can't pull it ahead of everybody but he will have it in schedule early part of next week. Does it mean anything? I don't know but at least they did take notice... I guess...

[NancysToy]

He said my spyder IS a priority but can't pull it ahead of everybody but he will have it in schedule early part of next week. Does it mean anything? I don't know but at least they did take notice... I guess...
Glad to see they seem to be working with you. Hang in there, hopefully relief is on the way.

[Arthur---Mexico]

Here in Mexico City there is extreme traffic congestion like you can't imagine. Instead of taking 20 minutes it can take you 2½ hours to go someplace if you are caught in traffic. I got caught in traffic two Fridays ago. My water cooled 2008 SE5 GS Spyder got hot 'having to stop and go every few meters. The motor slowed down and all sorts of messages presented themselve on the gauges, but I got to where I was going. There was no way of stopping to let things cool off in this traffic and no turnoffs in the road. When I stopped there suddenly developed a big leak of coolant and steam that drained the engine. The following day I returned with coolant so that I could get back home and I did. Last Monday I began removing the hose clamps to find a loose or ruptured hose and everthing was solid. But when I pulled out the plastic coolant expansion tank out I found it had burst. During the three hours of stop and go driving I did not see one car that had stopped because of over heating. But my water cooled Spyder did. On Tuesday, from the agency that did my last updates and repairs, I requested a price on a new plastic expansion tank an its top that didn't release the high pressure and now 4 days have passed and I'm still waiting for the price. I could go one but the dealer could sue me for deflamation. Besides burning my feet the danm thing has to explode. Spyders are not dependable transportation. I do all the repair work I can do myself because of the extremely poor workmanship that has been done in the two Can Am agencies I have dealt with before. I bought my Spyder with the idea it would be another hobby for me, riding. Now its repairing.

[Arthur---Mexico]

Here in Mexico City there is extreme traffic congestion like you can't imagine. Instead of taking 20 minutes it can take you 2½ hours to go someplace if you are caught in traffic. I got caught in traffic two Fridays ago. My water cooled 2008 SE5 GS Spyder got hot 'having to stop and go every few meters. The motor slowed down and all sorts of messages presented themselve on the gauges, but I got to where I was going. There was no way of stopping to let things cool off in this traffic and no turnoffs in the road. When I stopped there suddenly developed a big leak of coolant and steam that drained the engine. The following day I returned with coolant so that I could get back home and I did. Last Monday I began removing the hose clamps to find a loose or ruptured hose and everthing was solid. But when I pulled out the plastic coolant expansion tank out I found it had burst. During the three hours of stop and go driving I did not see one car that had stopped because of over heating. But my water cooled Spyder did. On Tuesday, from the agency that did my last updates and repairs, I requested a price on a new plastic expansion tank an its top that didn't release the high pressure and now 4 days have passed and I'm still waiting for the price. I could go one but the dealer could sue me for deflamation. Besides burning my feet the danm thing has to explode. Spyders are not dependable transportation. I do all the repair work I can do myself because of the extremely poor workmanship that has been done in the two Can Am agencies I have dealt with before. I bought my Spyder with the idea it would be another hobby for me, riding. Now its repairing.

[IWN2RYD]

Well Carlo contacted me and he is going to have brp tech contact the dealer. It turns out it doesn't matter whether I have best or 3rd party extended warranty, brp will help either way.
May be they can get Malcolm smith motorsports to shape up.
:2thumbs: for Carlo.

Now that is what we like to read... :thumbup:

[aka1004]

A short update. Day 19 since spyder was towed back to dealer.

Spyder is still sitting and have not even been looked at as promised by service manager, asked to speak to owner/GM and waiting for returncall.

have not heard back from Carlo. He said he would call back when hears something.

[vt228]

call BRP and keep calling till u get someone to help you your sales man should lend you his bike till yours is fixed. If they want your money and it was there men that screwed up they should make you happy and callBRP for u or give you the numbers to call.:gaah::agree:

[aka1004]

My 2 year warranty is expired and I have 3rd party extended warranty but Carlo said I still have brp products and they are behind it 100% although they prefer I get best coverage.

I just wanted to clarify that.

[aka1004]

Mr. Malcolm smith of Malcolm smith motorsports have called and said he was embarrassed about all this after I gave him the details on my spyder repairs there. Fact that it took 3-4 month for repairs and how it's been sitting there since engine blew up after 17 miles with rebuilt engine and he will see to it that my spyder gets done the asap.
When I told him spark plug was broken he immediately said "something was not done right when we rebuilt the engine".

[marvin24]

I was thinking of buying a Spyder, you guys are scaring me off. Are the dealers really this bad?

[murphybrown]

I was thinking of buying a Spyder, you guys are scaring me off. Are the dealers really this bad?

To answer your ?...NO..many, many great dealers out there. This is one of those situations that we all pray never happens to us whether it be purchasing a Spyder or a lawn mower or whatever...

I encourage you to not let what you read here on this particular incident stop you from enjoying your own Spyder. My Spyder and dealer are :firstplace:.

Life happens, sometimes in ugly ways. How we handle it is what matters. Carlo at BRP appears to be involved and a solution to a situation gone bad will happen.

[BajaRon]

I was thinking of buying a Spyder, you guys are scaring me off. Are the dealers really this bad?

Just like with anything else, there are some bad dealers. Some dealerships put the Spyder on a back burner, 2nd class status. They don't know much about the machine and frankly, they really don't care.

I am not sure there has been a pole taken or anything substantial to back up my theory, but I think the majority of Spyder dealerships are worthy of your business.

Like with any other subject on a forum like this, you're going to hear a lot more about the bad than you will about the good so it tends to skew the impression.

I highly recommend a perspective buyer go to the dealership and have a talk with the ownership and service department. Express your honest concerns up front (politely and without calling names).

I don't think you'd need much of their time to get a feel for how you would be treated as a Spyder owner.

And you can also ask for input on your dealership here from people who have actually done business there.

[aka1004]

Update: day 23
Service manager called and tells me engine is torned down and "floated" valves seems to be the culprit. He says it looks piston hit the floated valve and pushed valve into spark plug. Head of intake valve is broken and also the spark plug. He is going toward "engine was over reved".
Mechanic put 14 miles on my spyder after engine rebuild and I put 17.

I told him I am not going to argue about it till adjuster from extended warranty company takes a look on Friday.

This is little beyond my mechanical knowldege and I don't fully understand his explanation, does it make sense?
He also said it looks like valves were floating for a while before engine died.
Shouldn't the valves still be sitting higher than piston's reach even if valves were floating?

[NancysToy]

Update: day 23
Service manager called and tells me engine is torned down and "floated" valves seems to be the culprit. He says it looks piston hit the floated valve and pushed valve into spark plug. Head of intake valve is broken and also the spark plug. He is going toward "engine was over reved".
Mechanic put 14 miles on my spyder after engine rebuild and I put 17.

I told him I am not going to argue about it till adjuster from extended warranty company takes a look on Friday.

This is little beyond my mechanical knowldege and I don't fully understand his explanation, does it make sense?
He also said it looks like valves were floating for a while before engine died.
Shouldn't the valves still be sitting higher than piston's reach even if valves were floating?
There is a rev limiter on the Spyder, so if it was over-revved, it would be due to another failure...the failure of the rev limiter. The valves could also have contacted the piston because of improper assembly procedures, bad valve spings, or a broken keeper or other part. I would ask exactly them to explain exactly how an engine with a rev limiter can be over-revved. Also, have them show you the BUDS printout showing the maximum rpm reached and the rpm graph. That would readily prove what really happened. There is a reason the ECM records that data.

[marvin24]

Went to a can-am dealership located in the basement of a yamaha dealership here in Indiana. Walked in they had three can am spyders, sat on the rt model looked around the place, no salesman, no one in the shop. Walked out got on my bike and left. No one new I was there. They must have been upstairs saleing Yamaha's. Very discouraging to say the least.

[aka1004]

There is a rev limiter on the Spyder, so if it was over-revved, it would be due to another failure...the failure of the rev limiter. The valves could also have contacted the piston because of improper assembly procedures, bad valve spings, or a broken keeper or other part. I would ask exactly them to explain exactly how an engine with a rev limiter can be over-revved. Also, have them show you the BUDS printout showing the maximum rpm reached and the rpm graph. That would readily prove what really happened. There is a reason the ECM records that data.

Thank you. I forgot that spyder had rev limiter, called dealer and told them "umm spyder has rev limiter" and he goes "yes it does" I was going to ask why were you saying spyder was over-revved and that cause the piston to hit valves? But I made my point so I didn't go any further.

I got the impression from them after spyder was towed back with blown engine after 17 miles that they were going to try to pin this on me that spyder was abused, for whole 17 miles...

Over-revving is not going to work so I don't know what's their next move if western service contract denies claim. They paid first time without a fight but I am sure they will have questions this time.

[jedd]

Thank you. I forgot that spyder had rev limiter, called dealer and told them "umm spyder has rev limiter" and he goes "yes it does" I was going to ask why were you saying spyder was over-revved and that cause the piston to hit valves? But I made my point so I didn't go any further.

I got the impression from them after spyder was towed back with blown engine after 17 miles that they were going to try to pin this on me that spyder was abused, for whole 17 miles...

Over-revving is not going to work so I don't know what's their next move if western service contract denies claim. They paid first time without a fight but I am sure they will have questions this time.

Man this really sucks, your in a nasty spot, your dealer sucks and with them screwing it up no other dealer would want their problem. Carlo someone help this problem, engine failure 21 days after rebuild should be on dealers dime not yours not BRP not anyone but the dealer

IMHO
Jim

[aka1004]

Man this really sucks, your in a nasty spot, your dealer sucks and with them screwing it up no other dealer would want their problem. Carlo someone help this problem, engine failure 21 days after rebuild should be on dealers dime not yours not BRP not anyone but the dealer

IMHO
Jim

Engine failed after 17 miles after I picked up. Day 23 is since it was towed back to dealer on June 20th.

[darren]

Engine failed after 17 miles after I picked up. Day 23 is since it was towed back to dealer on June 20th.
Im sorry to hear that they are still draging the repairs out you must be feeling sick over all this. all the best to you

[aka1004]

Thank you and short update: day 28

No further contact or action from Carlo.

Claims adjuster came by but approval is still pending and service dept. is acting like a bystander that had no hand in this.

I sent an email to Carlo if mechanic is even qualified to do an engine rebuild.
2 engine rebuild and both fail at 450 and 17 miles...
That will raise some questions.Both extended warranty company and I.

[packbuckbrew]

Sounds like mechanical malpractice, if I operated like that, I would lose my license.

Perhaps Spyderlovers should develop a dealer ranking system, I am fortunate to have two dealers within close proximity that are excellent. Rob's in Johnson Creek WI, and Cedarcreek Motorsports in Grafton WI. I also have two dealers close by that sell spyders, but seem very indifferent about the product.

[aka1004]

Update: day 31

Western service contract denied claims and Malcolm smith motorsports is claiming spyder was abused in those 17 miles I rode and asking either to give them ok to fix spyder on me or pick it up as.

What can I do now?
Small claims court, hire a lawyer? Too small for lawyer?

[MouthPiece]

Update: day 31

Western service contract denied claims and Malcolm smith motorsports is claiming spyder was abused in those 17 miles I rode and asking either to give them ok to fix spyder on me or pick it up as.

What can I do now?
Small claims court, hire a lawyer? Too small for lawyer?

Pray

[ataDude]

BUDS... the software system... can extract exactly how fast and how many RPMs have been "hit". Ask for a BUDS printout.

On the other hand, if in that 17 miles YOU know that you may have exceeded any recommendations, then don't bother. ;)

.


Update: day 31

Western service contract denied claims and Malcolm smith motorsports is claiming spyder was abused in those 17 miles I rode and asking either to give them ok to fix spyder on me or pick it up as.

What can I do now?
Small claims court, hire a lawyer? Too small for lawyer?

[aka1004]

BUDS... the software system... can extract exactly how fast and how many RPMs have been "hit". Ask for a BUDS printout.

On the other hand, if in that 17 miles YOU know that you may have exceeded any recommendations, then don't bother. ;)

.

I am pretty sure I did not and rev-limiter should have kicked in if i got near that point.

[aka1004]

Still waiting on copy of buds report to be faxed. They are saying they don't have a copy but they looking in main file cabinet?
They have been working toward pinning this on me from the start so may be they got something else up the sleeve.

I think I will just donate this for tax deduction and call it a day.
If the fight with brp taught me anything it's that you cant win in court of law without money and time and I don't have neither. I don't wanna have to go thru that again with shady lawyers and all.

I itemize on my tax filing so should be good deduction. :clap:

[Sny]

Before you go giving it away for a deduction offer it for sale as-is for twice the amount you'll get back on your return. I'll guarantee it'll sell fast at that price even as-is. You normally don't get much more than 20% back unless it bumps you down into another tax bracket... and there's limits... but since you already itemize who knows.

[boborgera]

Still waiting on copy of buds report to be faxed. They are saying they don't have a copy but they looking in main file cabinet?
They have been working toward pinning this on me from the start so may be they got something else up the sleeve.

I think I will just donate this for tax deduction and call it a day.
If the fight with brp taught me anything it's that you cant win in court of law without money and time and I don't have neither. I don't wanna have to go thru that again with shady lawyers and all.

I itemize on my tax filing so should be good deduction. :clap:

Did you delete a thread, or am i going nuts.

[aka1004]

Did you delete a thread, or am i going nuts.

Yes I did delete that thread. You did not crazy. :D
Thread wasn't productive. I asked simple question and couple of people gave unsolicited opininons unrelated to the question.

[aka1004]

Before you go giving it away for a deduction offer it for sale as-is for twice the amount you'll get back on your return. I'll guarantee it'll sell fast at that price even as-is. You normally don't get much more than 20% back unless it bumps you down into another tax bracket... and there's limits... but since you already itemize who knows.

I will entertain offers if anybody is interested.

I thought of donation because there is a charity in Los Angeles that will give you full value of vehicle as donated amount and they will even give you some cash. So partial cash to me and rest in tax deductible donation

I still need to pay it off so that cash will help.

I am tired of 2 year and 8 month of problems and brp and dealers.
Yes spyder brought a lot of joy when it's not in shop but I need to get out, now before I loose my cool and be on the news.

I really had high hopes when picked up spyder this time A lot of parts on my spyder were replaced and engine was one thing that I never had problems so I thought this could be end of my ordeal when spyder went in for 2nd rebuild because it sounded like a legimate reason why it broke down only after 450 miles.

[boborgera]

Yes I did delete that thread. You did not crazy. :D
Thread wasn't productive. I asked simple question and couple of people gave unsolicited opininons unrelated to the question.

:thumbup::thumbup:

[aka1004]

Day 33

Still waiting on buds report.

Neither dealer or claims adjuster is providing the report.

No return call from Carlo after many email and voice mail, just need some info from him.

Owner of dealer is still out of town and he is the only one who can resolve this but he could still be in Canada so i didn't wanna call him on his cell.

[Lamonster]

Day 33

Still waiting on buds report.

Neither dealer or claims adjuster is providing the report.
Why can't you go into the dealer and get it? What are you going to do with when you do get it?

No return call from Carlo after many email and voice mail, just need some info from him.
Most of BRP went on vacation after Club. Not sure if Carlo did or not but I did send him your claim number. There are other support groups in the office at BRP. Once again I don't see how this is a BRP issue as much as it is a dealer issue, they rebuilt the motor.

Owner of dealer is still out of town and he is the only one who can resolve this but he could still be in Canada so i didn't wanna call him on his cell.
If he's the only one that can resolve this then you need to call his cell, the Dealer Show is over. I know venting here might make you feel better but all we're hearing is one side of the story and something just don't seem right to me.
:dontknow:

[aka1004]

Just got a call from Malcolm motorsports.
They want me to pick up my spyder or storage fee will be applied and they will provide buds report than.

I guess this is how it ends. Me picking up dead spyder.

[aka1004]

:dontknow:


If they accuse me of abusing the spyder during that 17 miles I rode it, why not provide proof they already have?
I will be out of town for another week or so that's why I asked them to fax it.

I need to speak with carlo for some info on spyder and he is the only person in brp organization who can provide that info I am told by service reps.

They tore down a good running engine and 2 rebuilds last 450 and 17 miles you are right. Something is not right here.


I am way past venting. I really want to set spyder on fire along with the dealership.

[Raptor]

I am sorry to hear that it is going to end this way for you. That dealer messed you over big time. And for BRP to just sit back and let all this happen is even more pathetic.

I had a situation with a Chevy Camaro that we bought brand new years ago where it kept blowing clutches. I was getting a similar run-around from the dealer that you are geting now so I went to Chevy and got to a person of authority who took ownership of the situation, arranged to have the car towed to another dealer where the problem was finally diagnosed properly and after that shop made the right repairs we got 18 years of care-free service from that car. The regional manager who made this happen cared enough and did not want the Chevy name stained by a bad customer experience or a bad dealer. That is what companies that care do. That is why the one car that we own is a Chevy.

BRP should have done the same thing but for some reason they are not stepping up. Again. With this and all the other things you have been through you would think they would at least be a bit curious about it and want to know more and at least try to help. Doesn't say much about BRP, does it?

Best of luck to you and whatever you decide to get next.

[Lamonster]

If they accuse me of abusing the spyder during that 17 miles I rode it, why not provide proof they already have?
I will be out of town for another week or so that's why I asked them to fax it.

I need to speak with carlo for some info on spyder and he is the only person in brp organization who can provide that info I am told by service reps.

They tore down a good running engine and 2 rebuilds last 450 and 17 miles you are right. Something is not right here.


I am way past venting. I really want to set spyder on fire along with the dealership.
I've known a few Spyder owners that use Malcolm for their service and I've heard nothing but praise for them so that's why this just don't seem right. If they got the timing on the cam gears wrong it would have shown up as soon as they cranked the motor, not 17 miles later. I hope if they would have done something wrong in the build that they would have owned up to it and from everything I've heard about their shop I have no reason to believe they wouldn't. If you did over rev the motor and floated the valves there will be a record of it on BUDS and you should have that printout from them. If that's the case then you're pretty much screwed, if there is no record of that then you have a strong case to go forward with. I hope you can get it worked out but at this point the dealer must feel pretty strong that it wasn't their fault.

[spyder3]

If they accuse me of abusing the spyder during that 17 miles I rode it, why not provide proof they already have?
I will be out of town for another week or so that's why I asked them to fax it.

I need to speak with carlo for some info on spyder and he is the only person in brp organization who can provide that info I am told by service reps.

They tore down a good running engine and 2 rebuilds last 450 and 17 miles you are right. Something is not right here.


I am way past venting. I really want to set spyder on fire along with the dealership.

Given the history here and the second rebuild.....why would you/anyone even think of over revving it? So, did you over rev it? Just asking.

[boborgera]

Given the history here and the second rebuild.....why would you/anyone even think of over revving it? So, did you over rev it? Just asking.

I think the question should be ; How can anyone over rev a engine with a [working] REV. LIMETER :dontknow:

[aka1004]

Given the history here and the second rebuild.....why would you/anyone even think of over revving it? So, did you over rev it? Just asking.

No one intentionally over revs an engine...
I am pretty sure I didn't. Only reason for"pretty sure" is in case someone asks "do you ride with your eyes glued to techometer?"

If I got close to over revving, limiter should have kicked in.
I asked about breakin of engine and mechanic said no need to baby it so I rode it in normal fashion between 5000-8000.

I asked them to fax buds report but they are refusing to do it.
He said he will give me a copy when or after spyder is picked up.

Called owner but doesn't pick up, talked to sales manager asking him to give me some sort of tradein value as is. He hasn't gotten back to me yet.

When service manager gave me an ultimatum, pick up spyder or give them ok to repair on my dime, I told them legal action will follow but I am not looking forward to that. It will be either donated for tax benefit or trade in for peanuts toward another bike.

I am worn out from two and half years of problems and blaming games.
I gotta get out before I loose it and be on the news. Just out. Right now, I will gladly trade it for ninja 250...

[spyder3]

No one intentionally over revs an engine...
I am pretty sure I didn't. Only reason for"pretty sure" is in case someone asks "do you ride with your eyes glued to techometer?"

If I got close to over revving, limiter should have kicked in.
I asked about breakin of engine and mechanic said no need to baby it so I rode it in normal fashion between 5000-8000.

I asked them to fax buds report but they are refusing to do it.
He said he will give me a copy when or after spyder is picked up.

Called owner but doesn't pick up, talked to sales manager asking him to give me some sort of tradein value as is. He hasn't gotten back to me yet.

When service manager gave me an ultimatum, pick up spyder or give them ok to repair on my dime, I told them legal action will follow but I am not looking forward to that. It will be either donated for tax benefit or trade in for peanuts toward another bike.

I am worn out from two and half years of problems and blaming games.
I gotta get out before I loose it and be on the news. Just out. Right now, I will gladly trade it for ninja 250...

Not blaming you at all, if it was done right you should not have had a problem. BUT, it also seems like you certainly pushed it (5000-8000rpm) pretty hard right out of the gate when maybe the thought process could have been to take it nice and easy to the next dealer and trade it in for whatever your next ride is going to be.(assuming it didnt break down driving it easy) I'm just a believer in breaking in new car engines gently as well as rebuilt. It's worked for me...I hope it works out for you.

[aka1004]

Not blaming you at all, if it was done right you should not have had a problem. BUT, it also seems like you certainly pushed it (5000-8000rpm) pretty hard right out of the gate when maybe the thought process could have been to take it nice and easy to the next dealer and trade it in for whatever your next ride is going to be.(assuming it didnt break down driving it easy) I'm just a believer in breaking in new car engines gently as well as rebuilt. It's worked for me...I hope it works out for you.

May be you have not read the thread.

I was not looking to trade in my spyder even after 2nd engine rebuild.
I was collecting parts. I bought brp hid, rt shocks, sets of oil change kit from bajaron, screens for front from spyderpop in anticipation of spyder being ready to ride after 3 month.

Spyder is high revving vehicle and I included Rpm range I normally ride in despite of some of you thinking upshifting at 7000 rpm is too high...
It is normal operating range. It cruises at 6000 rpm, almost...


You have no idea the kinda love I had for my spyder. I kept my spyder for 2 Years and 8 month of problems and put almost 40000 miles despite of all the problems and a year of shop time. You could be just a recreational rider but my spyder was way more than just a vehicle to get me around or something to ride on weekend.

[aka1004]

Forgot about Carlo calling this afternoon.
He said he can not get in between customer and their business partner aka dealers.

I asked to just provide me the facts.

How brp rev limiter works and how spyder can be over revved

What is over revving for spyder

[aka1004]

Not blaming you at all, if it was done right you should not have had a problem. BUT, it also seems like you certainly pushed it (5000-8000rpm) pretty hard right out of the gate when maybe the thought process could have been to take it nice and easy to the next dealer and trade it in for whatever your next ride is going to be.(assuming it didnt break down driving it easy) I'm just a believer in breaking in new car engines gently as well as rebuilt. It's worked for me...I hope it works out for you.

I heard members got grilled for posting negative and true stuff about brp.

Based on Your posts, where you are from and equipment you have, I have pretty good idea.

[Lamonster]

I heard members got grilled for posting negative and true stuff about brp.

Based on Your posts, where you are from and equipment you have, I have pretty good idea.

There is plenty of negative post on here about BRP besides yours. I'm sorry your motor blew and we will never know what really happened because there is only one side to this story being posted. I did what I said I was going to do for you and because you didn't like what you heard you continue on and now accuse this guy of being some sort of BRP plant.

I hope you somehow get this worked out but venting everyday on this board is over.