Bret BRP messed up my Spyder!!

[burg650]

First off I do not believe in coincidence, my Spyder was running great perfect till Bret mess it up.

On Saturday Bret hocked up my spyder to the computer/buds and said he was doing a software update the one that deals with the mileage counter not re-setting to 0. Well after he did this all hell broke loose bike when into limp mode check engine and other light came on, it took him over 10 min to get it all to go away and now there is my temperature problem. My bike ran with 4 bars in the temp gauge most of the time very really I saw 5 bars and it would be for a short time on the highway it always ran 3 bars on the highway unless it was 90 and above. I discovered this after a ride that day and went back to him and told him something was wrong and he said it could not be as he did not do anything except update the mileage counter I reminded him about the limp more and other light that took him a while to re-set and still said he did not do anything else and had many other bikes in line and might not get to it at all

well he F up my bike I AM CONVINCED. Today was the first chance I had to
ride and as I said temps get to 5 bars just after 5 min and does not move fan stays on all the time now and it does not goes off even at 80MPG on the highway riding for many miles with the air temp at 67. I have no coolant leak
and the over flow bottle is so hot I can't touch it. As I said I do not believe in
coincidence bike ran perfect before he f it up now I will have to pay to have the dealer hook it up to the buds and see what the HELL he did, you have no idea how pissed I am right now there is no way you can tell me that Bret did not mess up something while trying to remove all the limp check and other lights than cane on after the so called mileage counter update.

Maybe I have The tech's name wrong it might be Kurt that does not matter there is still a problem that what ever his name is caused.

[boborgera]

First off I do not believe in coincidence, my Spyder was running great perfect till Bret mess it up.

On Saturday Bret hocked up my spyder to the computer/buds and said he was doing a software update the one that deals with the mileage counter not re-setting to 0. Well after he did this all hell broke loose bike when into limp mode check engine and other light came on, it took him over 10 min to get it all to go away and now there is my temperature problem. My bike ran with 4 bars in the temp gauge most of the time very really I saw 5 bars and it would be for a short time on the highway it always ran 3 bars on the highway unless it was 90 and above. I discovered this after a ride that day and went back to him and told him something was wrong and he said it could not be as he did not do anything except update the mileage counter I reminded him about the limp more and other light that took him a while to re-set and still said he did not do anything else and had many other bikes in line and might not get to it at all well he F up my bike I AM CONVINCED. Today was the first chance I had to ride and as I said temps get to 5 bars just after 5 min and does not move fan stays on all the time now and it does not goes off even at 80MPG on the highway riding for many miles with the air temp at 67. I have no coolant leak and the over flow bottle is so hot I can't touch it. As I said I do not believe in coincidence bike ran perfect before he f it up now I will have to pay to have the dealer hook it up to the buds and see what the HELL he did, you have no idea how pissed I am right now there is no way you can tell me that Bret did not mess up something while trying to remove all the limp check and other lights than cane on after the so called mileage counter update.

:dontknow: who or what is bret??

[Firefly]

So are you saying that the fan is running ALL the time... no matter how many bars you're at??

Shouldn't turn on until 5 bars.

Is it going into limp mode-- or just running more bars than what you believe it ran before?

I personally think many get too worried about how many temp bars they're running. 5 bars is not abnormal at all - and varied conditions will affect it--- heat, riding style, altitude, riding up steep hills, etc.

I think rider observance of the heat bars is similar to seat of the pants dyno testing---- mileage will vary....;)

That being said--- it's your bike and you should know it best--- so have your local dealer hook it back up and check it out if you're that concerned - especially if you're actually going into limp mode...

I don't recall a 'Bret' there working on Spyders... but might have missed him.

[SpyderWolf]

Wow, I am very sorry to hear this. After visiting with you at Maggie Valley, I know you are another one who knows what is normal for your Spyder and can tell this is not within that range. I also hate that you need to take it to the dealer to see what is going on, but feel it is the best thing to do at this point. Hopefully it will be an easy reset through BUDS or something and your issue will be fixed quickly.

Best of luck to you, and please let us know what you find the trouble to be.

[Bob Denman]

I'm about the least-qualified human on the Planet as far as hooking things up to computers... I think that I'd be pretty reluctant to let anybody hook it up if I didn't know and trust them first...
Why not let your local dealer hook it up and see if they can undo the changes??

[ARtraveler]

:agree: It seems to be an obvious cause/effect issue--and the computer changes altered your bike.

[burg650]

:dontknow: who or what is bret??


Bret is a name!! maybe I got it wrong I think it is Kurt actually but for sure I have this problem and what ever his name is it's his fault.

[burg650]

Called the dealer I go to for my services (Ledgewood Powersports in Ledgewood NJ) and tried to see if I could go down this Friday to check out the computer on the spyder, could not talk to Joe the services manger who I always deal with and who is always helpful anyway some other guy called me back and I explain the problem to him and he said the earliest they can see me is 3 week from today the 28th and I ask are you kidding me I have to wait three week for a 5 to 10 min computer/buds check up. The only reason I go over an hour in the first place is the spyder mechanic Bob is really good that's the only reason I go there I trust him to work on my spyder but I am not comfortable riding the bike the way it is and it's not winter it's riding season and to wait 3 week for them to check it out seem really long for what I am asking. I will have to look into another dealer who will get me in and out no and I don't want to go to Motorcycle Mall in Belleville as I don't trust them. So anyone has a suggestions as to where I can take it to have it checked out in the NJ area or close to it, I am even more furious now.

[bill pitman]

HORN'S OUTDOOR INC.
1169 Mt. Bethel Hwy
Mt. Bethel PA 18343
Tel.: 610.588.6614

Roger, give this place a call. I stopped in there once, just a small place, but maybe they can get you in more quickly.
I don't think teir too far off RT 80.

Bill

[boborgera]

Called the dealer I go to for my services (Ledgewood Powersports in Ledgewood NJ) and tried to see if I could go down this Friday to check out the computer on the spyder, could not talk to Joe the services manger who I always deal with and who is always helpful anyway some other guy called me back and I explain the problem to him and he said the earliest they can see me is 3 week from today the 28th and I ask are you kidding me I have to wait three week for a 5 to 10 min computer/buds check up. The only reason I go over an hour in the first place is the spyder mechanic Bob is really good that's the only reason I go there I trust him to work on my spyder but I am not comfortable riding the bike the way it is and it's not winter it's riding season and to wait 3 week for them to check it out seem really long for what I am asking. I will have to look into another dealer who will get me in and out no and I don't want to go to Motorcycle Mall in Belleville as I don't trust them. So anyone has a suggestions as to where I can take it to have it checked out in the NJ area or close to it, I am even more furious now.


I think the Spyder is a problem child for most full line dealers,and working on them takes too much time from their other brands. Ledge wood sells a lot more Kawasaki and Polaris than Spyders, And they don't tie up their 10 by 10 shop like the Spyders do. I know them well last summer i bought a Er-6n from them, Up until a month ago I would have told you to try Rusty's. Ive been doing business with them since 1983 bought over 35 assorted machines from them over the years. Take my Side by side's Quads or bikes to them in and out with no problems, Bring the Spyder in and it always sits waiting for parts,:gaah:Wish i could recommend some one close but.:dontknow:

[stormtrooper]

HORN'S OUTDOOR INC.
1169 Mt. Bethel Hwy
Mt. Bethel PA 18343
Tel.: 610.588.6614

Roger, give this place a call. I stopped in there once, just a small place, but maybe they can get you in more quickly.
I don't think teir too far off RT 80.

Bill

I got my Spyder from Horns Outdoor and was treated great :thumbup: but when I called for DPS recall in Oct and followed up with calls every three weeks lets just say I stopped calling in Dec and a bird must have stolen there DPS list cause I still have not bin called. :gaah:

[Firefly]

Called the dealer I go to for my services (Ledgewood Powersports in Ledgewood NJ) and tried to see if I could go down this Friday to check out the computer on the spyder, could not talk to Joe the services manger who I always deal with and who is always helpful anyway some other guy called me back and I explain the problem to him and he said the earliest they can see me is 3 week from today the 28th and I ask are you kidding me I have to wait three week for a 5 to 10 min computer/buds check up. The only reason I go over an hour in the first place is the spyder mechanic Bob is really good that's the only reason I go there I trust him to work on my spyder but I am not comfortable riding the bike the way it is and it's not winter it's riding season and to wait 3 week for them to check it out seem really long for what I am asking. I will have to look into another dealer who will get me in and out no and I don't want to go to Motorcycle Mall in Belleville as I don't trust them. So anyone has a suggestions as to where I can take it to have it checked out in the NJ area or close to it, I am even more furious now.



Any decent dealer would hook you up to BUDS at the drop of a hat. I had one hook me up in Dry Ridge near Cincinnati to clear a break code---- he cleared the code-- tested the brake pressure, topped off the fluid and did the odometer update---- on the spot --- no charge.

Is it going into limp mode from overheating?

[MouthPiece]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[j45p3r]

Mine runs more bars after getting the cluster update, I think they just changed the ratio of bars to degrees. Bike doesn't run any different.

That is, I never saw five bars except on hot summer days or in traffic. Now five bars is the norm.

[burg650]

Any decent dealer would hook you up to BUDS at the drop of a hat. I had one hook me up in Dry Ridge near Cincinnati to clear a break code---- he cleared the code-- tested the brake pressure, topped off the fluid and did the odometer update---- on the spot --- no charge.

Is it going into limp mode from overheating?

No it's not going into limp or overheating, well not yet anyway. The problem is before the update I ran 4 bars most of the time and on the highway it would drop to 3 sometime only if it was in the 90's and up would I see 5 bars and that would be for a short time as I have the spal controller and it is set to come on at 50% at 4 bars just before 5 then if it did get to 5 the fan would switch to 100% and would run and hen back to 4 bars and fan would turn off also when the bike is cooled off and I start it the bars would increase slowly to 4 now 3 to 4 min I am up to 5 bars and stayes there and fan also come on and never goes off even on the highway so now the next problem will be a
burned out fan because it's running all the time. There is no way anyone is going to convince me that this update has not cause this running hotter problem, even with my exhaust wrap the whole bike feels much hottes as well.

[burg650]

HORN'S OUTDOOR INC.
1169 Mt. Bethel Hwy
Mt. Bethel PA 18343
Tel.: 610.588.6614

Roger, give this place a call. I stopped in there once, just a small place, but maybe they can get you in more quickly.
I don't think teir too far off RT 80.

Bill

I called them today and they told me they will be closing next week for vacation and trying to finish what work they have so they could not spare not even a min, and to call back in three weeks.

[Firefly]

Mine runs more bars after getting the cluster update, I think they just changed the ratio of bars to degrees. Bike doesn't run any different.

That is, I never saw five bars except on hot summer days or in traffic. Now five bars is the norm.

You know-- that's an interesting point--- I do believe that mine is showing more bars too after the cluster update..... I frankly just don't pay that much attention to the number of bars-- except to make sure it's up to 1 or 2 before taking off.

hmmm

[Firefly]

No it's not going into limp or overheating, well not yet anyway. The problem is before the update I ran 4 bars most of the time and on the highway it would drop to 3 sometime only if it was in the 90's and up would I see 5 bars and that would be for a short time as I have the spal controller and it is set to come on at 50% at 4 bars just before 5 then if it did get to 5 the fan would switch to 100% and would run and hen back to 4 bars and fan would turn off also when the bike is cooled off and I start it the bars would increase slowly to 4 now 3 to 4 min I am up to 5 bars and stayes there and fan also come on and never goes off even on the highway so now the next problem will be a
burned out fan because it's running all the time. There is no way anyone is going to convince me that this update has not cause this running hotter problem, even with my exhaust wrap the whole bike feels much hottes as well.

It may very well be they changed the readout---- as now that I think of it I have noticed mine showing more bars since the cluster update. Doesn't mean the bike is running hotter at all-- perhaps they just changed the ratio and the timing of when the fan comes on. The fan will last a long time--- actually the most wear they get is turning them on---- once they're on there's not much wear.

Put it this way--- the fan would die much sooner from turning it on and off a lot than it would just running it all the time.....

Maybe BRP can chime in and tell us if they have made a software update to the fan and bar readings.

I really wouldn't worry about it too much as long as you're not going into limp mode....

[burg650]

It may very well be they changed the readout---- as now that I think of it I have noticed mine showing more bars since the cluster update. Doesn't mean the bike is running hotter at all-- perhaps they just changed the ratio and the timing of when the fan comes on. The fan will last a long time--- actually the most wear they get is turning them on---- once they're on there's not much wear.

Put it this way--- the fan would die much sooner from turning it on and off a lot than it would just running it all the time.....

Maybe BRP can chime in and tell us if they have made a software update to the fan and bar readings.

I really wouldn't worry about it too much as long as you're not going into limp mode....


Firefly what ever they did they should have let us know first, for me running hot is not good as I feel much more heat than before coming from both sides and this does make me not want to ride it yes it's that hot. I wish BRP would have said something about this, hey Carlos answer my email will you. I don't like my Spyder being changed without my approval no matter what it is and I hope this update can be reversed and put back the way it was as I for one did and will not need the cluster update as I will never reach the 100000 km or 62138 miles to make it go back to 0.

[Firefly]

Firefly what ever they did they should have let us know first, for me running hot is not good as I feel much more heat than before coming from both sides and this does make me not want to ride it yes it's that hot. I wish BRP would have said something about this, hey Carlos answer my email will you. I don't like my Spyder being changed without my approval no matter what it is and I hope this update can be reversed and put back the way it was as I for one did and will not need the cluster update as I will never reach the 100000 km or 62138 miles to make it go back to 0.

I really don't think any change they did in the cluster would affect the actual temp--- but crazier things have happened on Spyders before.....

If you're getting a lot of heat on your legs it could be a sign of another problem--- bad Y gaskets.....

[Lamonster]

I really don't think any change they did in the cluster would affect the actual temp--- but crazier things have happened on Spyders before.....

If you're getting a lot of heat on your legs it could be a sign of another problem--- bad Y gaskets.....
:agree: I just went through 3 days of classes on BUDS and I can pretty much tell you for a fact that any change that was made on BUDS in Maggie Valley did not change the operating temps of his Spyder. It would be like buying four new tires and the next morning your car won't start so it must have been the tire guys who did it.

[Vyperyder]

I just noticed you said you have exhaust wrap.
How long since you/whoever installed it?
Depending on where you put the wrap that could be moving more heat to another area of the bike that doesn't need/can't handle it.
Any heat that would have been radiated out underneath, or at the front of the bike is now being trapped and released somewhere else along the bike at a hotter temperature than it should be!!??
Where???
This could be causing overheating in other areas of the machine not designed to cope with it.
I only suggest this because I recall when I had a chevy v8 I put some trick headers and exhaust on it. Because they were aluminum they made the engine bay excessively hot so I wrapped the headers in heat tape.
After my first drive I literally could not put my feet(with shoes) on the floor as the immense heat had been contained from the engine bay and was being released as soon as it reached the end of the tape...straight into the floor of the car and up into the cabin.
Good luck with your problem
cheers
Pete

[MouthPiece]

I just wonder if this "Bret" who now seems to be Kurt is the same person who is teaching Lamont at the tech school? Hmmmmmmmmmm?

Chris

[docdoru]

So anyone has a suggestions as to where I can take it to have it checked out in the NJ area or close to it, I am even more furious now.

Roger, as we talk in MV, have the coolant container replace...nojoke

[Lamonster]

I just wonder if this "Bret" who now seems to be Kurt is the same person who is teaching Lamont at the tech school? Hmmmmmmmmmm?

Chris
Yes he is, he's also one of 3 head techs here in the US and when the techs at the dealers can't figure out a problem they call Kurt. I talked to him about it last night when we were doing my clutch and all he did was clear some existing "non active" fault codes and update the cluster with the odometer fix. There's nothing in BUDS that can change how hot it runs. I'm not saying there's nothing going on with Rogers Spyder, just that BUDS didn't do it. :dontknow:

[Bob Denman]

...It would be like buying four new tires and the next morning your car won't start so it must have been the tire guys who did it...
:agree:...BUT... At some point the mechanical and "computerical" have to interact... I know so little about this that I'm barely qualified to open the thread, but could a programming action either make the engine run leaner (and hotter) or cause the thermostat to open later? (doubtful...) :dontknow:

Or... could it be that a gauge is reading the same temperatures as being "hotter" simply because of how it is displaying the temperatures??? :gaah:


9999,,,:thumbup:

[lightman02]

I've had techs do a courtesy check on coolant, etc. when doing normal service and they put the cap on wrong. It’s possible your cap isn’t on all the way; you can be a little low on coolant or have a slight loose connection on one of the hoses as I know that was an issue in the past. Also make sure you coolant bottle doesn’t have any cracks. Otherwise it could be nothing wrong maybe as the temps are warming up your feeling more heat, I notice as the outside air gets warmer I feel a lot more heat from my bike then I do in cooler weather. As far as software changes, I don’t see it, there could be a change of the fan turn on temp in the new software code that you are unaware of but this is normal. Even car manufactures alter code slightly sometimes in a software update and it is never known to the consumer or the techs themselves, it’s nothing unusual. However I cannot say that this fan turn on threshold has been altered but I have to agree, nothing in the software made the bike run hotter. As of right now I am under an extended warranty so I have no need to do repairs at my expense. When my warranty does expire; if I decide keep the Spyder I will be talking control of my computer so to say. I do my own work on everything I own so BRP will not be holding me hostage with their third party software and dongle forever.

If you want to try another dealer you can try : Bay Harbor Motors in Staten Island. I bought my Can-Am 450DS from them and they seemed pretty cool, never used them for service though.

[LennyO]

I don't know squat about Spyder (YET! :) ), but being a computer programmer for many years (30) , I can officially and confidently state that with any software modification there is a REAL possibility of screwing up things that are TOTALLY unrelated to the intended change.

I've done it, I've seen it more times then I care to remember!

Only a very thorough testing, which MUST include "negative testing" (which is intended to prove that your modification for added or modified functionality did not break anything along the way that was working properly before) will guarantee success.

Unfortunately, "negative testing" is a weak point in MANY if not MOST software shops, no matter what industry!

With 5 ECUs on the Spyder - there is no telling what can happen when software is updated!

No offence, Lamont!

SO, providing that there is no other mechanical cause - I am with Burg650 on the chance that Software could cause it. He seems to be a very thorough guy who pays attention to little things some others do not.

On the other hand - if the software update had "side effects" (which it really should not) - it must have been public knowledge, allowing people to make a choice whether to subscribe or not.

I hope you get this resolved! Good luck!

Try talking to RUSTY PALMERs in PA.
Seemed like nice guys (at least the sales. Gave me the best price too!)

[NancysToy]

I had more heat, related clutch problems, and related engine performance problems in Maggie Valley. Mine appear to be strictly weather and traffic related. They disappeared when we finally hit cooler weather and the freeway. I suspect it is merely a coincidence. Now if they had changed your tires, I would be real suspicious...... :joke:

All kidding aside, you may indeed have a genuine problem, but the cluster update probably didn't cause it. Sometimes things happen at near the same time, and seem to be related. I'd have my Spyder checked by my dealer, if I were you. Just tell them about the heating problem, not the work done, and let them make their own conclusions as to the cause.

[docdoru]

I don't know squat about Spyder (YET! :) ), but being a computer programmer for many years (30) , I can officially and confidently state that with any software modification there is a REAL possibility of screwing up things that are TOTALLY unrelated to the intended change.


All kidding aside, you may indeed have a genuine problem, but the cluster update probably didn't cause it. Sometimes things happen at near the same time, and seem to be related. I'd have my Spyder checked by my dealer, if I were you. Just tell them about the heating problem, not the work done, and let them make their own conclusions as to the cause.

1. History proved that software updates can and did introduced secondary "problems" (ex. DPS software update #1 vs. #2, when part of the update #2 consist in a flash of update #1). Problem was solved replacing the old DSP with generation 2.
2. We don't know what module is the target in the cluster update.
3. The Spyder RS owner knows the best any changes in his/hers temperature reading for the same temperature/location/traffic/style of ryding.

[boborgera]

My opinion,
AT this point i don't think Roger cares who did it or why it's doing it ;But why can't he get some dealer to look at it NOW not 3 weeks from now.:dontknow:

[lightman02]

My opinion,
AT this point i don't think Roger cares who did it or why it's doing it ;But why can't he get some dealer to look at it NOW not 3 weeks from now.:dontknow:

Problem is there are not nearly as many powersports dealers or techs then there are car dealers. It's a bad time out of the year to have work done on any power sport machine. You have to remember a lot of dealers work on street bikes, atv's, waverunners, etc. They get pretty backed up and it's hard to deal with in this area as the seasons are not long compared to somewhere like Florida. I know a lot of people that have a problems with their wave runner or atv and it can take almost a month to get it fixed. Then they come to me which can be very not fun.

[chris56]

funny story - maybe the relay of the fan has a problem ?? my GS was always running to 6 bars on the fast italian highways ( with best service )
but never run too hot - as you can see on the BUDS report what I always get printed out ... so 4to5 should not be any problem ..

[Firefly]

Maybe his spyder is just too used to riding on the trailer----:D. Just kidding :joke:bud!

Do you shut it off when it's on the trailer? :joke::D:roflblack:

Okay-- sorry-- just couldn't help...... hope you get this solved soon bro....

I would just ride to a dealer-- pull in and see if they'll look at it on the spot----

Sounds like you also have a fan modified switch??

I really don't think 'bret' did anything bad to yer bike-- but get it checked out anyway and in the meantime--- RIDE! :-)

[BajaRon]

Not saying one way or the other. The owner usually knows if something has changed but I agree with Scotty, sometimes it's simply a coincidence.

I worked on a ladies VW Bug many years ago (single woman in the church with limited resources). Some of the mechanically inclined guys would help out for free. She needed a tune-up very badly. Plugs, wires, points, condencer (remember those days?).

Ran like a top when I was done. Next morning I get a call about 7am. She went out to go to work and the left rear tire was flat. She was very upset and wanted to know what I had done to her car! There was no talking her out of her idea that I'd worked on her car and whatever I did had everything to do with the tire going flat.

Granted, this is an extreme case and not necessarily related to the Spyder issue here. I'm just saying, though it appears there is a cause and effect relationship it isn't necessarily so.

The real problem is getting in for a diagnosis which should not only resolve the problem but give an indication as to the cause. It would be nice to throw it on the BUDS but I doubt it would be a net time factor of 10 minutes. Then for the dealer to say 'You need thus and so but we can't get to it for 3 weeks' isn't going to make the customer any happier.

There is always the off chance that it would be a quick fix and you'd be out the door. But how many other customers are in the same boat? The dealer can't just put everyone at the front of the line.

Tough situation and I feel for you. Hope you can find someone who can look at it soon.

[boborgera]

Problem is there are not nearly as many powersports dealers or techs then there are car dealers. It's a bad time out of the year to have work done on any power sport machine. You have to remember a lot of dealers work on street bikes, atv's, waverunners, etc. They get pretty backed up and it's hard to deal with in this area as the seasons are not long compared to somewhere like Florida. I know a lot of people that have a problems with there wave runner or atv and it can take almost a month to get it fixed. Then they come to me which can be very not fun.

Points very well taken, But that same dealer that sells Spyders also sells bikes, Bring in a two wheeler for a quick check and they will get you in quick. The problem with the Spyder is poor support from BRP [parts delivery] SO if they take it in and put other bikes aside and then find they need to order a part to get it to run right it will sit there taking up space waiting weeks for parts to come in. And that's with all BRP's products, Three years ago when i bought my Spyder my Sons told me [ they both had jet skis and snowmobiles brp's] That if you have a breakdown in season you'll lose most of that season waiting for parts, So far they been right..:(

[Firefly]

I would also mention pertaining to the wrapped pipes----- I've heard from the HD crowd that this is not recommended on fuel-injected engines--- in fact HD will not cover engine warranty if you wrap them---- at least that's what our local dealer has told them.......

[MouthPiece]

Yes he is, he's also one of 3 head techs here in the US and when the techs at the dealers can't figure out a problem they call Kurt. I talked to him about it last night when we were doing my clutch and all he did was clear some existing "non active" fault codes and update the cluster with the odometer fix. There's nothing in BUDS that can change how hot it runs. I'm not saying there's nothing going on with Rogers Spyder, just that BUDS didn't do it. :dontknow:

My point exactly, Lamont.

[burg650]

Thanks to all for your inputs on my problem, I don't believe in coincidence my spyder was running just fine till it was connected to the buds as I said no one is going to convince that this update or the codes that came on after the update did not change something else.

As I also said that after the update was done the bike would not start limp mode dsp abs and other lights came on the cluster and it took some time for them to be removed so maybe while trying to clear/fix this that is when something else was overlooked or messed up.

To answer some the other suggestion has a possible cause, I have checked my over flow bottle no leaks level is good cap is holding tight I just changed the exhaust gaskits last fall when I did last serives don't believe the exhaust wrap is causing any problems the ambient temperature has not changed that would effect the running temps on the spyder and the spal fan controller could not
get affected by the update and most important I know my bike and it was all
fine till it was connected to the buds maybe the update did not change
anything but for sure the problem with all those light/codes that came on after
the update must have screwed up something else related to the cooling system trust me after 2 years you know if something is out of wack..

[BajaRon]

Hardly the case at all..... HD even sells their own Logo tape.....

Looked into this and could not find any official "Don't Wrap" recommendation from Harley. I did discover that owners are complaining about higher than average OEM exhaust failures at or near the head on some Harley/Buell motorcycles. This information was on forums and you know how problems can be magnified in that environment.

Seems this failure rate (cracking) was attributed to excessive stress on (Some) exhaust systems. Failure rate appeared to be aggravated by wrapping the exhaust. Aftermarket systems didn't seem to have this issue, wrapped or not.

Of course wrapping your exhaust does increase the amount of heat sustained by the metal pipe so if it is under flex stress (which it should not be) failure rates will increase. But the problem is not the wrap.

There are people saying that hotter exhaust temperatures may affect FI sensors. This could make sense but the discussion is all conjecture and I didn’t find anything from a manufacturer saying it was a bad idea.

I have to say that wrap sure works great on my Spyder.

[docdoru]

Hardly the case at all..... HD even sells their own Logo tape.....
...and a VRXSE Screamin' Eagle DESTROYER ...did they read my avatar name in SL? :roflblack:

[burg650]

My apologies to Kurt for getting his name wrong.

[Roadkill]

Mine runs more bars after getting the cluster update, I think they just changed the ratio of bars to degrees. Bike doesn't run any different... That is, I never saw five bars except on hot summer days or in traffic. Now five bars is the norm.

+It's the same here. The bike isn't actually running hotter, the display is simply gauging slightly differently now. I haven't had any overheating concerns, but do note that I'm running a stronger bar across the board after the software update.

I don't think you need to worry unless you're limping; however, you live in a more congested area than I, so my fan isn't always spinning, likely due to the increased airflow my engine usually sees.

Ride on.
Roadkill

[SpyderWolf]

My apologies to Kurt for getting his name wrong.

He may be glad you got his name wrong in this case. :D

[woodchuck]

HORN'S OUTDOOR INC.
1169 Mt. Bethel Hwy
Mt. Bethel PA 18343
Tel.: 610.588.6614

Roger, give this place a call. I stopped in there once, just a small place, but maybe they can get you in more quickly.
I don't think teir too far off RT 80.

Bill

I bought my :spyder2: from Horns. A nice dealer to contact. :firstplace:They treated me okay.:yes:

[JOESPY]

Roger if you find a solution let me know i got the same problem with my Spyder, went to the dealer after i got back from Maggie Valley for an oil change, apparantly they plug the computer and the updates are done automatically, and since that day my Spyder also runs hotter. Spoke with the dealer and he told me that im not the only one that complained. Hope they find a solution.

[arntufun]

Yes he is, he's also one of 3 head techs here in the US and when the techs at the dealers can't figure out a problem they call Kurt. I talked to him about it last night when we were doing my clutch and all he did was clear some existing "non active" fault codes and update the cluster with the odometer fix. There's nothing in BUDS that can change how hot it runs. I'm not saying there's nothing going on with Rogers Spyder, just that BUDS didn't do it. :dontknow:



It's pretty funny (not really, it's pretty scary actually) to find out one of the three head techs for BRP didn't even know that he did infact change Rogers Spyder heat bars indicator and didn't even know it. :shocked:

WOW !!! That all I'm going to say is, WOW !!!

[XLT]

It's pretty funny (not really, it's pretty scary actually) to find out one of the three head techs for BRP didn't even know that he did infact change Rogers Spyder heat bars indicator and didn't even know it. :shocked:

WOW !!! That all I'm going to say is, WOW !!!

I am glad we have confirmed that it was Kurt and his buds who screwed up this bike.

[Firefly]

Hardly the case at all..... HD even sells their own Logo tape.....

Yup--- that's exactly what my HD buddy (Doug) told me-- but the local dealer told him not to install until after his factory warranty because it would void it....... crazy eh?

[Firefly]

I am glad we have confirmed that it was Kurt and his buds who screwed up this bike.

Kurt and BUDS didn't 'mess' anything up that would have any affect on the bike running or performance. The new cluster update simply changed how the bars read out as Lamont clearly showed. It does not and can not make the bike actually run hotter.

If the bike is actually running hotter (only way to know for sure would be to have temp readings before and after) - then the problem is somewhere else.

My guess is this was a placebo effect after seeing the temp read 'higher'.

Mine reads higher too--- but it most certainly does NOT run hotter.

I also don't find it 'scary' that Kurt was unaware of this cluster change -- he's a technician --- not a computer programmer.

[bjt]

Kurt and BUDS didn't 'mess' anything up that would have any affect on the bike running or performance. The new cluster update simply changed how the bars read out as Lamont clearly showed. It does not and can not make the bike actually run hotter.

If the bike is actually running hotter (only way to know for sure would be to have temp readings before and after) - then the problem is somewhere else.

My guess is this was a placebo effect after seeing the temp read 'higher'.

Mine reads higher too--- but it most certainly does NOT run hotter.

I also don't find it 'scary' that Kurt was unaware of this cluster change -- he's a technician --- not a computer programmer.

:agree:

[arntufun]

I also don't find it 'scary' that Kurt was unaware of this cluster change -- he's a technician --- not a computer programmer.



I beg to differ. He should have known this !!! This update has been out a while now. So are you saying BRP programmers snuck that update in there and did not tell anyone including the techs ??? Highly doubt it. Someone told the programmer to write that program.

This just shows you even the head techs need more training and that is scary.

[Firefly]

I also don't find it 'scary' that Kurt was unaware of this cluster change -- he's a technician --- not a computer programmer.



I beg to differ. He should have known this !!! This update has been out a while now. So are you saying BRP programmers snuck that update in there and did not tell anyone including the techs ??? Highly doubt it. Someone told the programmer to write that program.

This just shows you even the head techs need more training and that is scary.

Gotta disagree with ya here bro---- this could have simply been a programming glitch--- NOT by design-- to which the techs would have no idea it happened. I do believe this is the case as they are releasing a 'fix' for it. You're not going to find a tech that knows the programming end of these beasts-- two different job skills altogether.

I mean really -- a cluster update to fix the 62K rollover - why would a tech even bother looking at the temp gauge--- not to mention he'd have to ride it for awhile to see it was doing that. People want to blame the BRP programmers-- fine-- but lay off the techs-- this isn't their fault.

[SteveMac]

[quote=arntufun;349430]

Gotta disagree with ya here bro---- this could have simply been a programming glitch--- NOT by design-- to which the techs would have no idea it happened. I do believe this is the case as they are releasing a 'fix' for it. You're not going to find a tech that knows the programming end of these beasts-- two different job skills altogether.

I mean really -- a cluster update to fix the 62K rollover - why would a tech even bother looking at the temp gauge--- not to mention he'd have to ride it for awhile to see it was doing that. People want to blame the BRP programmers-- fine-- but lay off the techs-- this isn't their fault.

I agree. I work with major software providers every day. When a change to code is completed in one area there are often unintended changes elsewhere. No way the tech would know this. Oft times the programmers themselves don't know it if no error occurs when compiling the code.

[arntufun]

[quote=arntufun;349430]

Gotta disagree with ya here bro---- this could have simply been a programming glitch--- NOT by design-- to which the techs would have no idea it happened. I do believe this is the case as they are releasing a 'fix' for it. You're not going to find a tech that knows the programming end of these beasts-- two different job skills altogether.

I mean really -- a cluster update to fix the 62K rollover - why would a tech even bother looking at the temp gauge--- not to mention he'd have to ride it for awhile to see it was doing that. People want to blame the BRP programmers-- fine-- but lay off the techs-- this isn't their fault.



http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2&pictureid=16664


Can they read English ??? :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: You can't dispute this fact ! LOL

[Firefly]

[quote=Firefly;349453]



http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2&pictureid=16664


Can they read English ??? :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: You can't dispute this fact ! LOL

So what's your point? Other than this was done by design and shows it had nothing to do with Kurt doing anything wrong. I also think this information was released AFTER some customers complained.

Seems there is no 'fix' as this was done on purpose--- people need to just get used to the 'new' gauge levels.

Kinda makes this entire thread moot now that we know the truth.

[Firefly]

[quote=Firefly;349453]

I agree. I work with major software providers every day. When a change to code is completed in one area there are often unintended changes elsewhere. No way the tech would know this. Oft times the programmers themselves don't know it if no error occurs when compiling the code.

I believe those are called 'undocumented features' ----- :D

[lightman02]

[quote=SteveMac;349467]

I believe those are called 'undocumented features' ----- :D

Correct, car manaufactures change code all the time and there are some tweeks that are not documented even as much as transmission shift points. However you are sitting in your car not on it and usually wouldn't notice such little things after a software update was done. It's 100% normal and I really don't understand what the problem is and why there is such a fuss. When BRP releases a software package they realease it to address a certain issue or improvement, in a bold statement. They don't list every little detail, no one does. The techs download a package and install it as per BRP, it's out of the techs hands what detailed code changes were made. You seriously think a auto / bike mechanic has a degree in computer science??

[lightman02]

[quote=arntufun;349471]

So what's your point? Other than this was done by design and shows it had nothing to do with Kurt doing anything wrong. I also think this information was released AFTER some customers complained.

Seems there is no 'fix' as this was done on purpose--- people need to just get used to the 'new' gauge levels.

Kinda makes this entire thread moot now that we know the truth.

:agree:

[arntufun]

[quote=arntufun;349471]

So what's your point? Other than this was done by design and shows it had nothing to do with Kurt doing anything wrong. I also think this information was released AFTER some customers complained.

Seems there is no 'fix' as this was done on purpose--- people need to just get used to the 'new' gauge levels.

Kinda makes this entire thread moot now that we know the truth.



My only point was Kurt told Lamont (my interpretation of Lamonts post) the higher bar reading had nothing to do with what he did to Roger's Spyder, when infact it did. And he should have known it being a head tech. I'm sure he was one of the first techs to get this memo regarding it and failed to read it.

Because if he did read it he would have told Lamont to tell Roger, that it does change the heat bar indicator and that would have been the end of the story. But that is not how it played out. Do you understand my point now my friend ??? :thumbup:

But I still belive Roger about the cluster change creating more heat on his Spyder. You and I both know that the owner knows how there own personal Spyder feels and sounds better than any tech ever could. And if somthing didn't feel right we would know it right away.

By the way, how was Fenway Park ??? I hope you did not go there and see a Red Sox game concidering I'm a Yankee's fan ??? Then we'd be fightin !!!:roflblack::roflblack:

[Firefly]

[quote=Firefly;349523]



My only point was Kurt told Lamont (my interpretation of Lamonts post) the higher bar reading had nothing to do with what he did to Roger's Spyder, when infact it did. And he should have known it being a head tech. I'm sure he was one of the first techs to get this memo regarding it and failed to read it.

Because if he did read it he would have told Lamont to tell Roger, that it does change the heat bar indicator and that would have been the end of the story. But that is not how it played out. Do you understand my point now my friend ??? :thumbup:

But I still belive Roger about the cluster change creating more heat on his Spyder. You and I both know that the owner knows how there own personal Spyder feels and sounds better than any tech ever could. And if somthing didn't feel right we would know it right away.

By the way, how was Fenway Park ??? I hope you did not go there and see a Red Sox game concidering I'm a Yankee's fan ??? Then we'd be fightin !!!:roflblack::roflblack:

It was my thought that the release came out after the 'Roger' incident -- and perhaps due to that incident......:dontknow:

He very well may be having a heat problem-- but it isn't due to the cluster update.

And yes-- I saw the Red Sox play at Fenway----- :D

[Some Guy]

[quote=SteveMac;349467]

I believe those are called 'undocumented features' ----- :D

:gaah: As a programmer myself, I have managed to insert a few "undocumented features" in my day! nojoke ("bug" is a dirty word, you know!)

:D

[Lamonster]

My only point was Kurt told Lamont (my interpretation of Lamonts post) the higher bar reading had nothing to do with what he did to Roger's Spyder, when infact it did. And he should have known it being a head tech. I'm sure he was one of the first techs to get this memo regarding it and failed to read it.

Because if he did read it he would have told Lamont to tell Roger, that it does change the heat bar indicator and that would have been the end of the story. But that is not how it played out. Do you understand my point now my friend ??? :thumbup:

But I still belive Roger about the cluster change creating more heat on his Spyder. You and I both know that the owner knows how there own personal Spyder feels and sounds better than any tech ever could. And if somthing didn't feel right we would know it right away.

By the way, how was Fenway Park ??? I hope you did not go there and see a Red Sox game concidering I'm a Yankee's fan ??? Then we'd be fightin !!!:roflblack::roflblack:
Your interpretation is wrong.
The memo came out the day I posted it here (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30431), Kurt did not know about it nor did anyone else other than the guys who made the change. When I posted my temp reading and confirmed that the scale did change and the temp did not it was soon released that this was in fact the case.

[arntufun]

Your interpretation is wrong.
The memo came out the day I posted it here (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30431), Kurt did not know about it nor did anyone else other than the guys who made the change. When I posted my temp reading and confirmed that the scale did change and the temp did not it was soon released that this was in fact the case.



OK, I stand corrected with my interpretation !!! Why would BRP not inform customers or there techs that with the odometer fix comes additional changes everyone should be aware of ??? Did they not think people would notice ??? I hope BRP learns from this and informs us from now on with any additional changes.

[Lamonster]

OK, I stand corrected with my interpretation !!! Why would BRP not inform customers or there techs that with the odometer fix comes additional changes everyone should be aware of ??? Did they not think people would notice ??? I hope BRP learns from this and informs us from now on with any additional changes.They did, that's what I posted and was sent to all the dealers to tell their customers.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2&pictureid=16664

I'm not sure why you keep your Spyder with all the bad mouthing you do about BRP and the Spyder. I just don't get it :dontknow: if I hated a company and product as much as you do I wouldn't own any of their product and I would get rid of what I had. nojoke

[Firefly]

OK, I stand corrected with my interpretation !!! Why would BRP not inform customers or there techs that with the odometer fix comes additional changes everyone should be aware of ??? Did they not think people would notice ??? I hope BRP learns from this and informs us from now on with any additional changes.

Do you really think the average Spyder owner pays much attention to the temp gauge? We live in a turn-key society where most don't want to pay attention to anything mechanical. People don't generally check the temp on their car or even the oil for that matter -- they just put the key in and drive it--- and I think many (if not most) Spyder owners are pretty much like that. Not saying that you, I or Roger are like that -- just that many are.

I don't see it as a big issue at all -- and the programmers probably thought it would go unnoticed..... and I have to admit that I didn't really notice it until the 'Roger' incident.

I had mine updated on the road on the way to TN this year-- and just didn't notice it-- but once I got home and read about Roger-- I did remember noticing that I was running like 4 bars one night when it was 73 degrees out-- which I thought was a big odd -- but didn't alarm me.

Now that we all know what the deal is--- it's time to put the issue to rest.....

[arntufun]

They did, that's what I posted and was sent to all the dealers to tell their customers.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2&pictureid=16664

I'm not sure why you keep your Spyder with all the bad mouthing you do about BRP and the Spyder. I just don't get it :dontknow: if I hated a company and product as much as you do I wouldn't own any of their product and I would get rid of what I had. nojoke


I never once said I hated my Spyder. I post all the time how much I enjoy riding the Spyder. But I am honest enough to also say what the downfalls are.
I know you have a close ties with BRP and I'm sure any postings from people (and lately it's everyday) which include BRP shortcomings gets you upset and I'm sorry for that.

[MouthPiece]

I never once said I hated my Spyder. I post all the time how much I enjoy riding the Spyder. But I am honest enough to also say what the downfalls are.
I know you have a close ties with BRP and I'm sure any postings from people (and lately it's everyday) which include BRP shortcomings gets you upset and I'm sorry for that.

Give it a rest please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!