Ethanol and Power

[Brunswick]

I notice a huge difference in performance (acceleration) of my Accord V6 when I can find ethanol free gas. I notice difference less so with my other car. Has anyone run both types in their Spyder and compared them?

http://www.motorcycleperf.com/techtips/gasoline.htm

For ethanol free gas stations (not sure if its up-to-date, though): http://pure-gas.org/

[docdoru]

Thanks for the info :thumbup:

[arntufun]

I only run ethanol free gas in my spyder when filling up near my home. She seems to like it alot better. But maybe thats in my head. The problem lies when your out and about on a ride. These ethanol free gas stations are hard to find. Thank goodness I have one in my city. And Brunswick, You have one of these stations near your turf as well heading out of Troy towards "BRUNSWICK" on RT 7, but I'm sure you knew that. But where I really notice the difference is in the lawn mowers, snowmobiles, weedwacker, and my old motorcycle that is equipt with a carburator. Although, I do not notice a difference in my Toyota Tundra 5.7 V8 (which without a doubt, IS THE BEST TRUCK EVER BUILT). People complain about the MPG of the Spyder, but that 14-15 MPG of the Tundra really hits me in the wallet.

[M2Wild]

I only run ethanol free gas in my spyder when filling up near my home. She seems to like it alot better. But maybe thats in my head. The problem lies when your out and about on a ride. These ethanol free gas stations are hard to find. Thank goodness I have one in my city. And Brunswick, You have one of these stations near your turf as well heading out of Troy towards "BRUNSWICK" on RT 7, but I'm sure you knew that. But where I really notice the difference is in the lawn mowers, snowmobiles, weedwacker, and my old motorcycle that is equipt with a carburator. Although, I do not notice a difference in my Toyota Tundra 5.7 V8 (which without a doubt, IS THE BEST TRUCK EVER BUILT). People complain about the MPG of the Spyder, but that 14-15 MPG of the Tundra really hits me in the wallet.
How do you find one of these ethanol free station? Do they advertise it? IS the gas more expensive than other station's to make up for the difference? I winterize with race gas plus stablizer which is additive free so it has a less of a chance to gum up things.

[BajaRon]

I notice a huge difference in performance (acceleration) of my Accord V6 when I can find ethanol free gas. I notice difference less so with my other car. Has anyone run both types in their Spyder and compared them?

http://www.motorcycleperf.com/techtips/gasoline.htm

For ethanol free gas stations (not sure if its up-to-date, though): http://pure-gas.org/

10% Ethanol (which is the standard) will cost you about 10% in MPG. With the Spyder this correlates to about 3 MPG.

This is due to a loss in Horse Power but the percentage in HP loss varies more than the overall MPG.

I always like to point out that it takes more Oil to produce Ethanol than it would to produce the same amount of gasoline. And you have to produce more Ethanol to make up for the loss of MPG. And, of course, you have to buy about 10% more to go the same distance.

So most people can pay 10% more (about $0.35 a gallon) for Non-Ethanol fuel and they will be breaking even on total fuel costs with better performance.

[arntufun]

How do you find one of these ethanol free station? Do they advertise it? IS the gas more expensive than other station's to make up for the difference? I winterize with race gas plus stablizer which is additive free so it has a less of a chance to gum up things.

Brunswick's second link will show you by state where they are located. "You bet your bippy" (my father says that. LOL) they advertise it. There is a huge sign on the station that I go to. It is about .15 cents more a gallon in my area. But they are lined up around the block to fill up. My station put a 10 gallon limit in gas cans, and they won't let boats or snowmobiles on trailers fill up because they would block another pump from being used. It's like liquid crack !!!nojoke

[boborgera]

10% Ethanol (which is the standard) will cost you about 10% in MPG. With the Spyder this correlates to about 3 MPG.

This is due to a loss in Horse Power but the percentage in HP loss varies more than the overall MPG.

I always like to point out that it takes more Oil to produce Ethanol than it would to produce the same amount of gasoline. And you have to produce more Ethanol to make up for the loss of MPG. And, of course, you have to buy about 10% more to go the same distance.

So most people can pay 10% more (about $0.35 a gallon) for Non-Ethanol fuel and they will be breaking even on total fuel costs with better performance.

:agree:Now the :cus: want to raise it to 15%E, It just doesn't seem right growing
food [corn] to burn in gas tanks. I guess if you follow the money you'll find the answer:gaah:

[Pincushion]

After Lou at Pirate Powersports informed me of the evils of ethanol, he recommended I try this:
http://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/93/123/lang,en/

It's made a huge difference in my Spyder (better acceleration, more mileage per tank, smother idle, less exhaust popping)

1 oz in a full tank, and I'm good to go!

[BajaRon]

:agree:Now the :cus: want to raise it to 15%E, It just doesn't seem right growing
food [corn] to burn in gas tanks. I guess if you follow the money you'll find the answer:gaah:
I would be all for it, if the stated benefit (less dependance on foriegn oil) were true. But it isn't. Ethanol actually increases our foriegn oil dependance. Polititians and farmers benefit, the rest of us pay for it.

Now, I'm not against farmers benefiting. But in this case, we'd be better off just sending them the money and forget the Ethanol!

"Follow the money" is exactly right...

[MouthPiece]

Man don't get me started on this one. I'll be here all day and night ranting about why putting ethanol in our gas was a STUPID move. Nuff said.

Chris PE# 0004

[Saluda]

Ethanol, I hate it and see no true benefit. With seasonal equipment (snowblowers & sleds) you're always adding something and hoping for the best.

[cjackg]

I am fortunate to have several gas stations within a few miles of home that sell non-ethanol gas in all grades so I use it regularly even though slightly higher priced.
When I use it in my Dodge 1500 Hemi, I get about 2mpg better. When I use it in the RT, it seems to run a little better but I dont notice much change in the mileage or power.
One thing to note is the shorter shelf life for ethanol which makes it imperative to use a fuel stabilizer additive if you will be storing it very long.

[FANG]

10% Ethanol (which is the standard) will cost you about 10% in MPG. With the Spyder this correlates to about 3 MPG.

This is due to a loss in Horse Power but the percentage in HP loss varies more than the overall MPG.

I always like to point out that it takes more Oil to produce Ethanol than it would to produce the same amount of gasoline. And you have to produce more Ethanol to make up for the loss of MPG. And, of course, you have to buy about 10% more to go the same distance.

So most people can pay 10% more (about $0.35 a gallon) for Non-Ethanol fuel and they will be breaking even on total fuel costs with better performance.


:agree: I have a brother who is a chemical engineer for Chevron and he confirmed what Ron has stated. He says 10% Ethanol relates to 10% less effieciency and thus less gas mileage - 15% will correlate the same way - as the corn alcohol goes up efficiency goes down. BUMMER for sure. :sour:

[Bob Denman]

I know that this is gonna make me feel like the unwante dstepchild...;)
I had an E-85 engine in my Silverado. The couple of times that I gave it a good drink of that stuff it ran smoother, cooler and made a lot more power. (It also used about 15% more fuel!)
I was told that the octane rating of the E-85 juice was higher than straight gas.
Now I don't know if my experience was because it was an E-85 motor getting what it needed, or not...

[NancysToy]

The thing that cracks me up is that our learned politicians first mandate certain fuel economy standards for motor vehicles...then they mandate (or at least allow, subsidize, and encourage) the use of ethanol in gasoline, lowering the mileage and confounding both manufacturers and consumers. My Mom said "You can't have your cake and eat it, too." I guess she was wrong.....or was she? Does Washington know something we don't?

[BMF_RACING]

Ethanol, I hate it and see no true benefit. With seasonal equipment (snowblowers & sleds) you're always adding something and hoping for the best.


It may feel like there is no benefit to running ethanol fuels, e85, e95, & so on for some people but thats not true for everyone. Because I build and tune many forced induction race cars and fast street cars I have had the chance to experiment with e85 a bit. Yes there is a loss in MPG when using E fuels, but there is a small nitch of the market where it does appeal to. For those with with turbo/supercharged engines, e85 is very appealing. Currently e85 is around $2.80/gal & the c16 (116 octane leaded fuel) race fuel is $12/gal. For us turbo car guys, we can acheive the same levels of HP with e85 as we can the c16, pay less and burn cleaner. I understand the both sides, just wanted to say there is some benefits to different groups.

Methenol is a whole other story all togather (even better for HP).

Just my $0.02. ;)

[POPS 57]

One more tidbit for people like me that have to store there bikes. My wife has the the spyder and i have a valkyrie with six carbs. Up here in Minn. we put the bikes up for the long winter. What i have found that works great is to go to the airport and put there gas in my bikes. One hundred octane and it is made to last. They don't want airplanes falling out of the sky.

[dave01]

For those with with turbo/supercharged engines, e85 is very appealing. Currently e85 is around $2.80/gal & the c16 (116 octane leaded fuel) race fuel is $12/gal. For us turbo car guys, we can acheive the same levels of HP with e85 as we can the c16, pay less and burn cleaner.

Interesting....I have been running C16 in the turbo Busa for years. Might have to try E85 and see if she likes it. Thanks for the info

[Bob Denman]

Interesting....I have been running C16 in the turbo Busa for years.
You stuck a "hairdryer" on a 'Busa? What sort of power gains did you get and what did it do for your top-end performance? :shocked: :thumbup:

[M2Wild]

One more tidbit for people like me that have to store there bikes. My wife has the the spyder and i have a valkyrie with six carbs. Up here in Minn. we put the bikes up for the long winter. What i have found that works great is to go to the airport and put there gas in my bikes. One hundred octane and it is made to last. They don't want airplanes falling out of the sky.
How much per gallon? Might be the way to go after I install my SC.

[Badasz]

Hey I don't see CT on that list for gas :( . I guess ill have to start looking around for my :spyder:

[dave01]

Lol. 460hp all day with 624 max on the dyno . I wimped out at 217 mph but she had a lot more in her
Plus I got her down to 398 lbs with all carbon body and rims


You stuck a "hairdryer" on a 'Busa? What sort of power gains did you get and what did it do for your top-end performance? :shocked: :thumbup:



Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[BMF_RACING]

Interesting....I have been running C16 in the turbo Busa for years. Might have to try E85 and see if she likes it. Thanks for the info

The only down fall to going e85 is the fuel system requirements nearly double (injectors and fuel pump) ... also keep in mind stoichiometric is 14.7 with Gas and only 9.7 ish with e85, so remember that when tuning with the WB. :thumbup:

[POPS 57]

M2Wild it's around a dollar more per gallon. I only use it for storage. Summer it goes in the snowmobiles and winter the bikes and half a tank in the 57 chev. Then top it off with ethanol free gas. So far so good.

[mxz600]

I mentioned this in another post about ethanol gas.

A buddy of mine had major engine failure from gas that had suffered from phase separation. After filling up at the station he only made it a couple of miles before the problems started.

Below is a link on phase separation and other helpful advise.

http://fuelschool.blogspot.com/2009/02/phase-separation-in-ethanol-blended.html

[bone crusher]

Corn ethanol is a a joke...better to use switch grass or cane sugar if you're gonna do it right...

Of course, this gov't is clueless...as others have mentioned, you end up paying more in the long run with the crappy ethanol...oh, and burning ethanol is fine for the environment? Who are they kidding? If you burn a carbon product, you're burning a carbon product!

[Firefly]

Corn ethanol is a a joke...better to use switch grass or cane sugar if you're gonna do it right...

Of course, this gov't is clueless...as others have mentioned, you end up paying more in the long run with the crappy ethanol...oh, and burning ethanol is fine for the environment? Who are they kidding? If you burn a carbon product, you're burning a carbon product!

Um-- not sure what ya mean by 'this' government -- but the push for and use of ethanol has been going on during various administrations....but many are quick to blame everything on the current one for some reason....

[zeebill]

Um-- not sure what ya mean by 'this' government -- but the push for and use of ethanol has been going on during various administrations....but many are quick to blame everything on the current one for some reason....



Because when they started out they had the legislative branch locked up and instead of repealing the ethanol standards they chose the healthcare fiasco instead. Is that hard to understand? Like Bush says do you miss me now? I sure do and I won't miss these misguided liberals a bit! Bill :D

[ThreeWheels]

Hey I don't see CT on that list for gas :( . I guess ill have to start looking around for my :spyder:

There's NOTHING in the area at all. Not NJ, not MA.

[MouthPiece]

Um-- not sure what ya mean by 'this' government -- but the push for and use of ethanol has been going on during various administrations....but many are quick to blame everything on the current one for some reason....

Very true, but the most recent "edict" was an "administrative one" and is increasing ethanol from 10% to 15% in our gas. This was done just recently under the PRESENT administration.

Chris PE# 0004

[Firefly]

Very true, but the most recent "edict" was an "administrative one" and is increasing ethanol from 10% to 15% in our gas. This was done just recently under the PRESENT administration.

Chris PE# 0004

Everything I've read online states that a new blend *may* be released for NEWER vehicles only-- called E15 -- and it will be entirely your option whether to use it or not. Our current gas with a blend up to 10% isn't going away anytime soon.

[SpyderWolf]

I am lucky enough to have a few stations left in my area that sell Ethanol free fuel. I like to fill my Spyder with it whenever I can, and I definitely see better mileage on a tank than when I put the Ethanol in.

On the other side of the coin, my Nissan Titan is a Flex Fuel vehicle and my wife just put E85 in it the other day for $2.90 a gallon. Regular is currently $3.50 a gallon here. The truck computer currently shows it getting an average 16 mpg on the E85, so I cannot complain about that.

I do agree it is totally ridiculous to be using corn to produce Ethanol at an energy return rate of 1:1 when sugar cane gives you a return of 8:1. I am not a farmer, but would think we should be able to grow sugar cane in this country as well. :dontknow:

Besides the StarTron additive, there is also one called ValveTech, or something similar, that is made for marine engines. 1 bottle costs $12 but is good for 120 gallons, so it would only take a capful every now and then to do the trick. I have heard good reports on it so far. You may have to go to a boating store to find it. They say your engine will sputter a little at first, but then completely smooth out and run great.

[Marker]

It may feel like there is no benefit to running ethanol fuels, e85, e95, & so on for some people but thats not true for everyone. Because I build and tune many forced induction race cars and fast street cars I have had the chance to experiment with e85 a bit. Yes there is a loss in MPG when using E fuels, but there is a small nitch of the market where it does appeal to. For those with with turbo/supercharged engines, e85 is very appealing. Currently e85 is around $2.80/gal & the c16 (116 octane leaded fuel) race fuel is $12/gal. For us turbo car guys, we can achieve the same levels of HP with e85 as we can the c16, pay less and burn cleaner. I understand the both sides, just wanted to say there is some benefits to different groups.

Methanol is a whole other story all together (even better for HP).

Just my $0.02. ;)

Thanks :thumbup:, I always like to hear both sides. This year NASCAR boys are using ethanol in the Sunoco race fuel. I don't know why my guess ia sponsorship money. Just my $.02 worth;)

[Littlebadwolf]

Bought a can of octane booster today after reading the post on the ethanol here...gonna give it a test tomorrow...Instructions claim a boost of 2.5 octane with the addition of 1 ounce of it to 1 gallon of gas.. Will post results.

[SpyderWolf]

Bought a can of octane booster today after reading the post on the ethanol here...gonna give it a test tomorrow...Instructions claim a boost of 2.5 octane with the addition of 1 ounce of it to 1 gallon of gas.. Will post results.

I remember when I bought my GSX-R when they were first made street legal in 1986. It required the highest grade gasoline you could get, and then the owners manual recommended buying Octane Boost 108+ and adding a couple ounces of it to each tank. Things sure have changed in 25 years, or they may be starting to come around again.