Mobil 1 racing 4T oil in the Spyder!!!!

[StriperKing]

Just wanted to worn everyone that uses or is thinking of useing Mobil 1 racing 4T motorcycle oil for wet clutch aplications. We are not supposed to use an API SM rated oil in our Spyders for our clutch system. Mobil 1 racing 4T moturcycle oil has just switched to this API SM rating. If you look on the shelves you may find the old version or the new version but you will not know unless you look at the API specks on the back. The bottles look identical. I bought 4-quarts at Auto-Zone and had two of each. I went back and all was API SM. They said they were the newest and I got the last of the older ones. I do not want to get into all the info about API codes but all you have to do is put in Amsoil, Rotella, Mobil 1, etc. in the search and you can read all you need to.

If some may wonder why not the API SM, it can cause some clutch slippage in the Spyder. I am not an expert but some say not to use it in any wet clutch application and this makes me wonder why Mobil 1 racing 4T has went this direction. I guess this could be a misprint on the bottles at my Auto-Zone but I would not think so, anything is possible. :dontknow:

[Raptor]

This is good to know. Thanks for the info. I was seriously thinking of going that way. But then I did some research and read all the great reviews about Amsoil, so I linked up with Ken and went with the Amsoil, and I'm glad I did. This is AMAZING stuff. Both bikes just love it!

Thanks again for the 411. :thumbup:

[SpyderWolf]

Thanks for the heads up. I currently have Mobil1 Racing 4T in our Spyders, but of course no longer have those bottles. I will have to check the bottles next time I am at the auto parts store and see what they say on them. I am not looking forward to finding out they have switched things up like that.

[Sarge707]

Thanks for the heads up. I currently have Mobil1 Racing 4T in our Spyders, but of course no longer have those bottles. I will have to check the bottles next time I am at the auto parts store and see what they say on them. I am not looking forward to finding out they have switched things up like that.
My remaining 2 bottles say SG, SH/CF JASO MA. I hope they did not change! Someone else makes a 4T- I,ll look it up now.:dontknow:

[StriperKing]

Ya Sarge that is what 2-of mine said and two were SM. I am like you, I used Mobil 1 syn. in all my vehicles.

[Sarge707]

Ya Sarge that is what 2-of mine said and two were SM. I am like you, I used Mobil 1 syn. in all my vehicles.
http://www.smartsynthetics.com/articles/motorcycle_oil_technical_facts.htm

This article by amsoil seems to say in the 6th paragraph down that the old SG, SH classifications are now obsolete and SM is an improvement to and completely compatibly with the outdated Classifications?
I,m sure a REAL oil expert will help us!! (I,m Not.):roflblack:

[burg650]

I switched to the 4t this past spring when I did my 6000 mile service, I now know maybe why I feel like my clutch is slipping maybe I got the new stuff. Will drain it in the spring and put something else in just to be safe.

[ataDude]

I switched to the 4t this past spring when I did not 6000 mile service, I now know maybe why I feel like my clutch is slipping maybe I got the new stuff. Will drain it in the spring and put something else in just to be safe.

Hey... larger font! Thanks!

.

[burg650]

Hey... larger font! Thanks!

.


What!! it's the same size as all the others put your reading glasses on.

[Sarge707]

I wrote in a question to the Mobil1.com site but plan on calling the 800 # Monday to get an answer.:yikes:

[StriperKing]

Please post what you find out. I would really like to know.

[Yazz]

Please post what you find out. I would really like to know.

+1.

The good news for me is I bought two cases of Mobil 1 Racing 4T from a little Mom and Pop auto store. Its SG, SH/CF JASO MA and was on sale.

Pop knew he had some Mobil 1 of the type I wanted. He searched for half an hour in the back and came out announcing they had a pallet of the oil.

So for a while, unless Sarg comes back with drastic news, I will be a loyal customer to Mom and Pop.

[StriperKing]

Yazz, did they also have the new stuff or did you get lucky and all they had was the older stuff?

[Yazz]

Yazz, did they also have the new stuff or did you get lucky and all they had was the older stuff?

This store has been there from the '50's by the look of it. One of those small places that has everything you need, nothing you don't need. Who knows what they have in the back?

Think I got lucky and all they have is the old stuff.

[Bob Denman]

I was seriously thinking of going that way. But then I did some research and read all the great reviews about Amsoil, so I linked up with Ken and went with the Amsoil, and I'm glad I did. This is AMAZING stuff.Thanks again for the 411. :thumbup:

:agree: I think that I'll follow your lead with either Amsoil or the BRP 'Dino Juice... At least we all know that it's not going to hurt anything inside the engine cases! :thumbup:

[Dudley]

I never used the Mobil. I started using Royal Purple 10W40 on the SE5 at 5,000 miles and kept using it. I traded the SE5 on the RT after 43,000 miles without any problems. I have started using RP on the RT at the break in oil change and plan on continuing. OH, and yes, I use automotive oil!

[M2Wild]

I never used the Mobil. I started using Royal Purple 10W40 on the SE5 at 5,000 miles and kept using it. I traded the SE5 on the RT after 43,000 miles without any problems. I have started using RP on the RT at the break in oil change and plan on continuing. OH, and yes, I use automotive oil!
You don't use the RP for motorcycle???

[Dudley]

You don't use the RP for motorcycle???

The oils are identical except the motorcycle oil has additives for air cooled engines. I got this information from the RP technician. He said that a liquid cooled engine, even with a wet clutch, will not be harmed by the oil. It did well in the SE5 so I am going to trust it in the RT, which is a manual.

[Arthur---Mexico]

Complete your message. Ken can be found at kbr1954@yahoo.com. He can supply you not only with Amsoil but the needed filters and their seals. He's a straight shooter. No problems.

[clueless]

I skipped Mobile 1 and Amsoil Motorcycle oils cause they didn't have the recommended 5W40. they only have 10W40.

just to be safe I stuck with 5W40 and went with Motul full Synth.

[Sarge707]

Can,t find a Mobil Phone # and they didn,t answer my question?:dontknow:

[bruceofthebronx]

Complete your message. Ken can be found at kbr1954@yahoo.com. He can supply you not only with Amsoil but the needed filters and their seals. He's a straight shooter. No problems.
I've been buying from Ken for a bit now, the man is as good as they come.:thumbup:

[BajaRon]

I skipped Mobile 1 and Amsoil Motorcycle oils cause they didn't have the recommended 5W40. they only have 10W40.

just to be safe I stuck with 5W40 and went with Motul full Synth.

Not a good reason to skip over a great oil. Many oils don't even meet the viscosity rating on the bottle. Many don't meet them very long (if they did when you opened the bottle).

BRP doen't recommend 5 weight because 10 weight will destroy or harm your engine. It's got more to do with cold weather starts (real cold) and fuel mileage (Minimal difference with 10w) than anything else.

For me, I like the heavier weight low end because I know what happens with transmission gears that run in light oil. They tend to wear more, especially if you ride hard, pull a trailer or ride 2 up.

Also, the greater the number spread between the low and the high, the less stable the oil. Not a big deal there, probably, if you're using a high quality product. But can be a real issue with cheaper brands.

Besides, the 'Blended' oil you get in the BRP bottle (which is the current recommended oil for the Spyder) is Castrol 10w-40. Only their 'Full Synthetic' oil is 5w-40. And I'm wondering if BRP decided that for warmer climates the 5w was too thin.

[IWN2RYD]

Man all this talk is starting to make me worry... I am using the
Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W-40 1 Gal. Oil (http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/t6_detail.html)

Am I creating an issue for our Spyder? :yikes::gaah::(


http://www-static.shell.com/static/rotella-en/images/products/t6/t6specs_and_approvals.gif

[clueless]

actually the first number is the starting viscosity so I think it is better to get 5W40 then 10W40. Once it warms up they are BOTH 40 weight oil so you are not running thinner oil. same miles per gallon as well as they both are 40W at operating temp.

only if you went to 10W50 would you get a heavier oil or 20W50 like VTwin oil.

but back on topic... Motul 300V 4T is better than Mobile 1. do a search on the sportsbike race forums and you will see a lot of Motul supporters. its full Synth... guys are using this in racing bikes for past few years.

here is the data sheet for it = http://matrixsyntheticoils.com/datasheets/300V-4T%205w-40.pdf

PERFORMANCE:
STANDARDS Above existing standards (means it exceeds all standards not just meets them)...

So I think its better for you to get lower viscosity for better start up and the oil gets up to pressure faster to protect the engine on start-up better and then it warms and protects at SAE 40 when running....

bottom line: why spend this much $$ on a Spyder to use 10W40 instead of the recommended viscosity 5W40:hun:? just saying probably within the life of the motor will not make a difference... but you CAN get just a good quality or better quality oil in the 5W40 weight ...:thumbup:

[clueless]

here is a good read for oil in laymans terms... this is from an AMSOL pro website:

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

from that article: I can't tell you how many times I have heard someone, usually an auto mechanic, say that they wouldn't use a 5W-30 motor oil because it is, "Too thin." Then they may use a 10W-30 or SAE 30 motor oil. At engine operating temperatures these oils are the same. The only time the 5W-30 oil is "thin" is at cold start up conditions where you need it to be "thin."

the spread as you say between the start weight and running weight of oil with Full Synthetics is not an issue especially between 5W40 and 10W40 is called in the article Viscosity Index. you will see FULL synth do not have as much issue as dyno oils with the Viscosity Index spread.

[BajaRon]

Man all this talk is starting to make me worry... I am using the
Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W-40 1 Gal. Oil

Am I creating an issue for our Spyder? :yikes::gaah::(


http://www-static.shell.com/static/rotella-en/images/products/t6/t6specs_and_approvals.gif

Probably not, Rotella is a great oil. People worry about the wrong issues with oil sometimes. There is a lot of confusion (aided and abetted by some dealers).

Use a good approved oil, change it at regular intervals (including filter) and you'll get as much life out of your engine as possible.

My only point was that not using a very good oil simply because it is 10w instead of 5w, for the Spyder, is not a realistically valid reason. And there are actually some good reasons to prefer a 10w oil.

My point was not, in any way, that a 5w oil should be avoided.

If you are storing and riding the Spyder in very cold climates, a 5w oil is probably a better choice.

Though I've ridden mine in the low 20's with no issues at all.

[clueless]

Man all this talk is starting to make me worry... I am using the
Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W-40 1 Gal. Oil (http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/t6_detail.html)

Am I creating an issue for our Spyder? :yikes::gaah::(


http://www-static.shell.com/static/rotella-en/images/products/t6/t6specs_and_approvals.gif

from the service manual:

just says to avoid motor oil meeting the API service SM or ILSAC GF-4 classification. clutch slippage will occur.


I thought there was one version of the Rotax oil that had the SM rating. Edit ... I see the one you posted has the SM rating.

[boborgera]

Probably not, Rotella is a great oil. People worry about the wrong issues with oil sometimes. There is a lot of confusion (aided and abetted by some dealers).

Use a good approved oil, change it at regular intervals (including filter) and you'll get as much life out of your engine as possible.

My only point was that not using a very good oil simply because it is 10w instead of 5w, for the Spyder, is not a realistically valid reason. And there are actually some good reasons to prefer a 10w oil.

My point was not, in any way, that a 5w oil should be avoided.

If you are storing and riding the Spyder in very cold climates, a 5w oil is probably a better choice.

Though I've ridden mine in the low 20's with no issues at all.

:dontknow:
I use 10/40 Motorcycle oil full Syn. The brand doesn't matter, i mix and match. And i ride in the single digits with out any problems. Most People have Cars/Trucks that cost twice as much as the Spyder,.
and I'll bet they don't even know what kind of oil there using.
The Spyder isn't a Baby that will get diarrhea if you change it's formula a little.

[NancysToy]

The use of SM or GF-4 rated oils was prohibited by BRP due to the friction modifiers some manufacturers used to achieve those ratings. Some of these were "too slippery", causing clutch slippage. Since the Spyder came out, the situation has become more confusing. First the Rotella-T, and now the Mobil1 4T, have changed their rating to SM. At the same time, though, they carry the JASO MA rating, which has been contrary to the SM rating in the past. My guess is that they are achieving the standards through a different formulation, that now allows the oil to meet several accepted standards.

The successful use of these oils is the key. If you have been using the newer products with no clutch slippage, you are probably OK...provided you do not have a lubrication related failure that needs warranty repairs. Use is still prohibited by BRP. I know some owners have had problems with the new-label Rotella-T, but they may have used 10W-40, which is a different formulation. I think our best bet is for owners currently using the rerated oils to report on their success or failure, and the specific brand, weight, and rating of oil they used, as well as how many oil changes they have used it, so we all know what is working in the real world.

[Bob Denman]

Baja... :thumbup: Great info!
Scotty, You are, as usual, right on point...
Since I'm one of the "uninformed" who will just about dump anything in a crankcase, I've now learned to actually READ THE LABEL!
Thanks guys!

(SM... "bad"... maybe!):D

[Lamonster]

I didn't have much luck with Rotella
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6390

[NancysToy]

I didn't have much luck with Rotella
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6390
I thought it was you, but I didn't remember for sure. 5W-40 or 10W-40?

[Lamonster]

I thought it was you, but I didn't remember for sure. 5W-40 or 10W-40?
I don't recall to be honest Scotty :dontknow:

[BLACK WIDOW]

The use of SM or GF-4 rated oils was prohibited by BRP due to the friction modifiers some manufacturers used to achieve those ratings. Some of these were "too slippery", causing clutch slippage. Since the Spyder came out, the situation has become more confusing. First the Rotella-T, and now the Mobil1 4T, have changed their rating to SM. At the same time, though, they carry the JASO MA rating, which has been contrary to the SM rating in the past. My guess is that they are achieving the standards through a different formulation, that now allows the oil to meet several accepted standards.

The successful use of these oils is the key. If you have been using the newer products with no clutch slippage, you are probably OK...provided you do not have a lubrication related failure that needs warranty repairs. Use is still prohibited by BRP. I know some owners have had problems with the new-label Rotella-T, but they may have used 10W-40, which is a different formulation. I think our best bet is for owners currently using the rerated oils to report on their success or failure, and the specific brand, weight, and rating of oil they used, as well as how many oil changes they have used it, so we all know what is working in the real world.

:agree: If the oil is JASO-MA rated it should be good for any motorcycle, since that is the only true rating for motorcycle oil.

[Bob Denman]

I thought it was you, but I didn't remember for sure. 5W-40 or 10W-40?
:shocked: You guys are starting to scare me... :shocked: :roflblack:

[NancysToy]

:agree: If the oil is JASO-MA rated it should be good for any motorcycle, since that is the only true rating for motorcycle oil.
I agree, although your statement is a little incomplete. There are several JASO ratings, and some are not suitable for wet clutch use, while others are only suitable for two-stroke motorcycles. The JASO MA or MA-2 rating is the one we need.

The JASO T904-MA and MA2 standards are approved for wet clutch use. The JASO T904-MB standard is for dry clutch use only. It should also be noted that the JASO standards are aimed to meet the more stringent needs of air-cooled engines, which have much more severe operating conditions. Use in a liquid cooled engine is acceptable, and provides a high degreee of protection. Their requirements for non-corrosive additives are very applicable for all motorcycles, as well. The 2-stroke JASO standards, FA, FB, FC, etc., do not apply for our use.

Normally, seeing the JASO MA standard on the label, like with the new Mobil1 4T and the Shell Rotella-T, would mean everything was fine for our needs, but as Lamont said, he had trouble with the Rotella-T. The label and the weight of the one he used is uncertain, however, so the 5W-40 could be labeled differently and have different properties. We are going to need a bit more feedback to be comfortable with this one. A manufacturer can put almost anything they want to on their label. I am skeptical when the API SM rating and the JASO MA rating appear on the same label. I hope these oils can live up to their new labels.

In the end, it is each person's choice and their own risk. Using an API SM oil still violates warranty requirements.

[Dudley]

I used Royal Purple 10W40 automotive oil in the 2008 SE5 for 35,000 of the 43,000 miles I rode without any problems with the clutch. When I did the first oil change in the RT I put in RP 10W40 automotive oil. Royal Purple does not use any additives that will collect on the clutch and cause slippage. For me, 35,000 miles pretty much sealed my trust for Royal Purple.

[clueless]

10W40 versus 5W40 ... what I am getting at that seems to be lost:

YES you COULD use 10W40 or as lamont ended up in an emergency use 20W50 vtwin oil.

but WHY ?

why not use the recommended weight 5W40. with full synth there is no reason that 5W40 is less oil then 10W40 AND you get the lower initial viscosity which is always a good thing on startup and getting the oil thru the motor quicker on startup.

after the oil heats up you either 5W40 or 10W40 is the SAME weight running at SAE40 weight at operating temp so again no difference. So its a WIN WIN to use 5W40 over 10W40. all things being equal.

now onto the oil brand argument there IS good 5W40 oil brands out there and I am assuming but its not proven that the full synth BRP oil the gold bottle is 5W40 weight.

everyone should take a few mins and read the first few paragraphs of that website I linked to about oil weight... get educated my friends... http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

this all applies to full Synth oils not regular oil...

I am not picking a fight with Baja but I guess I am disagreeing with him about 5W versus 10W oil in our Spyders in reference to FULL synth oils. :chat:

others thoughts?

[IWN2RYD]

from the service manual:

just says to avoid motor oil meeting the API service SM or ILSAC GF-4 classification. clutch slippage will occur.


I thought there was one version of the Rotax oil that had the SM rating. Edit ... I see the one you posted has the SM rating.

Great... This is so frik'n frustrating.

I participated in a thread on this a while back. If memory serves me, even BRP's own oils did not meet the needs of the Spyder (specs wise). From that thread came the conclusion of the T6 being a good choice of oil, and for the price I felt it was the way to go.

Now because one of the many approval codes on the bottle I am finding out the choice in oil is bad? :gaah::chill:

I am not married to any brand. I do hate the sales pressure of the "Pyramid" type and Fanboys (not saying we have any, this is not my first rodeo is all I am saying and folks do go a bit to far at times, self included). I simply want to do what I do with my daily vehicles and that is get to 250,000 mile worth of time out of my bike. :chat:

[Sarge707]

The use of SM or GF-4 rated oils was prohibited by BRP due to the friction modifiers some manufacturers used to achieve those ratings. Some of these were "too slippery", causing clutch slippage. Since the Spyder came out, the situation has become more confusing. First the Rotella-T, and now the Mobil1 4T, have changed their rating to SM. At the same time, though, they carry the JASO MA rating, which has been contrary to the SM rating in the past. My guess is that they are achieving the standards through a different formulation, that now allows the oil to meet several accepted standards.

The successful use of these oils is the key. If you have been using the newer products with no clutch slippage, you are probably OK...provided you do not have a lubrication related failure that needs warranty repairs. Use is still prohibited by BRP. I know some owners have had problems with the new-label Rotella-T, but they may have used 10W-40, which is a different formulation. I think our best bet is for owners currently using the rerated oils to report on their success or failure, and the specific brand, weight, and rating of oil they used, as well as how many oil changes they have used it, so we all know what is working in the real world.

Scotty I Pasted this from my former li nk-



A premium quality motorcycle engine oil can be stated to meet the requirements of API Service Classification SJ, SH, SG, SF, CH-4, CG-4, CF-2, CF and CD. Note that SH, SF, SG and CD are now obsolete. Motorcycles specifying an oil meeting any of the obsolete applications can use an oil with the newer classification oil because it includes, and supersedes, the requirements of the obsolete service classification. For example, if you have an old motorcycle that specifies SE service classification you do not have to go out and look for an oil with that service classification (and if you did you would most likely not be able to find any in stores as SE was outdated in 1979). The newer classifications include the outdated ones and are perfectly suitable for use. There are some motorcycle oil manufacturers that will include an older service classification on the bottle to so that consumers can specifically see that the oil not only meets all the older specifications but the newer ones as well.

Mobil Superceded the old SG, SH with the new SM rating. BRP has NOT!



Read more: http://www.smartsynthetics.com/articles/motorcycle_oil_technical_facts.htm#ixzz18CnyPNeW

[NancysToy]

Scotty I Pasted this from my former li nk-



A premium quality motorcycle engine oil can be stated to meet the requirements of API Service Classification SJ, SH, SG, SF, CH-4, CG-4, CF-2, CF and CD. Note that SH, SF, SG and CD are now obsolete. Motorcycles specifying an oil meeting any of the obsolete applications can use an oil with the newer classification oil because it includes, and supersedes, the requirements of the obsolete service classification. For example, if you have an old motorcycle that specifies SE service classification you do not have to go out and look for an oil with that service classification (and if you did you would most likely not be able to find any in stores as SE was outdated in 1979). The newer classifications include the outdated ones and are perfectly suitable for use. There are some motorcycle oil manufacturers that will include an older service classification on the bottle to so that consumers can specifically see that the oil not only meets all the older specifications but the newer ones as well.


Mobil Superceded the old SG, SH with the new SM rating. BRP has NOT!




Read more: http://www.smartsynthetics.com/articles/motorcycle_oil_technical_facts.htm#ixzz18CnyPNeW

I'm not sure of the source of their information, but it is not strictly accurate. As an example, BMWs that specified an SG oil experienced failures with some of the later grades, due to the new friction modifiers eating the brionze bushings in the transmissions. BMW sold its own oil for a while, with the old rating. Some oils of the newer ratings have been proven to be acceptable...mostly the motorcycle formulations, but you still have to watch which oil you put into a BMW...especially an early one. That is why BMW and some other motorcycle manufacturers continued to specify API SF/SG oil. I have not looked at any labels recently, but some motorcycle specific oils still carried that obsolete rating just a year or so ago, even though it did not exist for any other application.

You are correct in that those API ratings are now obsolete, and have been superceded. There is more than SM, though. Current ratings include SL, SM, SN, and SJ for gasoline engines. All other ratings are obsolete. BRP initially specified an oil rated SL. Those oils seem to be disappearing, which is the topic of this thread (the oils previously labeled as SL are now labeled SM), but the SL rating is still a valid one. I will stick to an SL rated oil until I have experience with an SM formulation, or there is enough testimony that I am comfortable with it. If you put it in your Spyder and burn up the clutch, it will be expensive...and BRP will not pay for the damage!

[Dudley]

I love oil discussions. In the end, the BEST oil is the one you trust. I am sold on RP, some others on Amsoil, etc. You can throw labels, specs, typings on the label, but in the end, it's all how you feel about what YOU put in your Spyder. It's like trying to determine what is "true pink"!

[Raptor]

I love oil discussions. In the end, the BEST oil is the one you trust. I am sold on RP, some others on Amsoil, etc. You can throw labels, specs, typings on the label, but in the end, it's all how you feel about what YOU put in your Spyder. It's like trying to determine what is "true pink"!

:agree: I know there is a bunch of science and things to give us guide lines, but at the end of the day Dudley is right. He found RP, the stuff is working for him, and that is what he's usin! For me, I was fortunate to find Amsoil, and that is what is working well for me. It really is about what you trust. So there ya go!

[NancysToy]

I love oil discussions. In the end, the BEST oil is the one you trust. I am sold on RP, some others on Amsoil, etc. You can throw labels, specs, typings on the label, but in the end, it's all how you feel about what YOU put in your Spyder. It's like trying to determine what is "true pink"!
:agree::agree::agree:

[Sarge707]

I love oil discussions. In the end, the BEST oil is the one you trust. I am sold on RP, some others on Amsoil, etc. You can throw labels, specs, typings on the label, but in the end, it's all how you feel about what YOU put in your Spyder. It's like trying to determine what is "true pink"!
:agree: I have run 4T in my supercharged (High Reving) jet ski Rotax engines since 2003 with Great results! Since I just changed my oil for the winter season and have found 4 quarts of the SG, SH yesterday I,m good till NEXT fall!

[IWN2RYD]

I love oil discussions. In the end, the BEST oil is the one you trust. I am sold on RP, some others on Amsoil, etc. You can throw labels, specs, typings on the label, but in the end, it's all how you feel about what YOU put in your Spyder. It's like trying to determine what is "true pink"!
Very good point.

But I have another. Just because someone decided on an oil does not mean it is the one they should be using. I come to this forum to learn. :thumbup: My question is still just as valid regardless of who chooses to use what.

Maybe I need to re-word it. ***Clears throat*** If a bottle of oil matching our personal preferred grade has the "Approved" specified code, but then also has one not on the preferred list (Like the SM in this case) do we stay away from this oil or what? :helpsmilie:

And because body language and tone is hard to see in a white background and black letters of text. I am simply trying to learn, not challenge. We always read up on forums like this and find the most knowledgeable of a particular product (Like the Spyders in this case) to be there and not in a store selling us an oil.

We are more than happy to get rid of our current oil supply (Three changes worth) and go buy the correct one. :thumbup:

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Wow... my headache is really getting ugly... :shocked:

[IWN2RYD]

:shocked: Wow... my headache is really getting ugly... :shocked:
Wow what an awesome value add. lol :roflblack:

[Sarge707]

:shocked: Wow... my headache is really getting ugly... :shocked:

Here is the Mobil1 Tech line 1-800-662-4525.

I called and explaining a lot of people are concerned with the new rating.
Basically its as was stated before that the SM Supercedes the SG, SH and has ALL the same qualities we expect from the older rating BUT has been assigned a New Letter. The Formula is Completely the same he assured me. In another year or sooner this Letter will be superceded by the letter "N". "It is Specifically made for High Reving Motorcycle 4 Sroke engines with transmissions and wet clutch primaries."
It will be an individual choice?:dontknow:

[NancysToy]

Very good point.

But I have another. Just because someone decided on an oil does not mean it is the one they should be using. I come to this forum to learn. :thumbup: My question is still just as valid regardless of who chooses to use what.

Maybe I need to re-word it. ***Clears throat*** If a bottle of oil matching our personal preferred grade has the "Approved" specified code, but then also has one not on the preferred list (Like the SM in this case) do we stay away from this oil or what? :helpsmilie:

And because body language and tone is hard to see in a white background and black letters of text. I am simply trying to learn, not challenge. We always read up on forums like this and find the most knowledgeable of a particular product (Like the Spyders in this case) to be there and not in a store selling us an oil.

We are more than happy to get rid of our current oil supply (Three changes worth) and go buy the correct one. :thumbup:
That, I'm afraid, is still strictly up to you. To me, the main reason not to use an otherwise acceptable SM rated oil would be to prevent voiding the warranty, in case of oil-related damage. BRP is unlikely to pay to repair a clutch...or even a transmission bearing, if you use a specifically prohibited oil. Until they issue an alternate oil recommendation, we are stuck with their rules.

From a standpoint of continuing to use an oil which is now labeled SM, I would be comfortable experimenting close to home, being prepared to dump the oil and start over if the clutch slipped in the least. That is my point of view as a mechanic...but my point of view as a cheap Dutchman says I payed for the extended warranty, and I wouldn't want to throw that money away. Take a deep breath, flip the coin, then proceed as directed. :D

[clueless]

That, I'm afraid, is still strictly up to you. To me, the main reason not to use an otherwise acceptable SM rated oil would be to prevent voiding the warranty, in case of oil-related damage. BRP is unlikely to pay to repair a clutch...or even a transmission bearing, if you use a specifically prohibited oil. Until they issue an alternate oil recommendation, we are stuck with their rules.


this is exactly where I am coming from :thumbup:... I am using a full synth 5W40 oil that does not have the SM rating. enough said .. others can do what they want but I have the extended warranty and dont want to risk it. keeping receipt for the oil I bought thru dealer Motul 300V 4t.

for the $$ I put into the Spyder and the ext warranty just KISS ... meet their recommended oil and be done. cost me like $1 more per qt... not a big deal.

[IWN2RYD]

**cries a little**

This does nothing to answer the question of the labeling meeting the requirements and one of those "Not wanted" ratings from BRP is also present.

I looked at Amsoil and it looked like this same dilemma is there as well. They qualify for numerous ratings.

Of course I know I can make my own choice, and of course the wrong oil can void the warranty. That is WHY I am trying to clarify to begin with. :2thumbs:

I could also just run the factory oil that also does not meet their very own rating requirements (If old info is still valid). Is BRP going to run Oil Test samples on every bike to determine what oil is being used in order to deny warranty repair or not? Granted I do understand a few of the oils are easy to tell. But not all.

Come folks. I am trying to learn factual info and not personal options. I remember very similar type conversations when synthetic first started rolling out.

I mean this with the up most respect, we may not yet be able to answer this question on the forums and may require direct communication with the oil companies and BRP for a final answer we can all hang our hats on. :opps::chat:

For now I will just run whatever BRP sells until we know for sure. I highly doubt that will take long for the factual answer to come to light, and it most certainly is the safe call to make running BRP's stuff for a few oil changes till then...

To this day I have not seen a motorcycle synthetic oil meet one rating. They all seem to meet multiple ratings. So if one of those ratings is not one to use, do we skip over that oil all together even though it does meet another rating that is allowed? :sour:

[Dudley]

IWN2RYD (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?u=5006), I can understand your concern for oil. I don't know if you can get the answer you want on this forum. I, for one, will not tell someone what oil to use. I decided on Royal Purple after reading numerous on-line sites on different oils, etc. It seems to me that when any oil company posts results of tests, their oil will meet or be superior to others contested. I call that marketing. Not to say that the other oils are not good. I called the RP tech and talked for quite a while and he answered all my questions. The one thing that swung my trust was his stating that the wear reducing additives in the oil DID NOT would NOT damage a wet clutch. He told me the only difference between the RP automotive and the RP motorcycle oils was that the MC oil was formulated for air cooled engines. I use the 10W40 weight because where I live the coldest it will ever be when I start the Spyder will be in the 40s. Again, I used this oil in the 2008 SE5 for over 35,000 miles with no issues and I am now using it in the 2010 RT. Am i concerned about warranty to the engine? Absolutely not. For over 40 years I have ridden over 500,000 miles and never had an engine issue, not matter what oil I used. Am I lucky? Yes I am. Am I worried now? No I am not. In the end, its is my choice, as it will be yours. Happy Trails. Ride in Faith.

[IWN2RYD]

IWN2RYD (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?u=5006), I can understand your concern for oil. I don't know if you can get the answer you want on this forum. I, for one, will not tell someone what oil to use. I decided on Royal Purple after reading numerous on-line sites on different oils, etc. It seems to me that when any oil company posts results of tests, their oil will meet or be superior to others contested. I call that marketing. Not to say that the other oils are not good.

Could not agree more. I certainly mean well and am just trying to learn, not challenge ones likes or dislikes in Oils/Brands/Etc...

The reason for me not letting the question slide is quite simple. This has been spoken on a few times, I read those and participated in a few. It seems every time one is looking for information no answers other than opinions or like and so on ever develop.

It is 100% my fault for not asking this way in the past, before I purchased the oil I did. But a forum like this is very valuable to folks like me who are experts in a few things and not in countless others.

We rely on information offered by others on forums that have proven valuable in the past and are chalked full of folks far more knowledgeable than most. Yeah just like anything in life we trust to much or read into things one way or another.

I am not an expert in almost anything discussed here. But more than one person has responded with opinions and present them like facts.

My first hopes in coming into this thread was learning more on Mobil 1 and potentially running that in our new 2011 RT-S SE5. This is why I chimed in hoping we all could learn more as this subject is a few months down the road from last time. :opps:

[NancysToy]

IWN2RYD, I'm not sure why you are letting this drive you so nuts. The bottom line is that you may no longer be able to find an oil other than the BRP oil that will meet their specifications. (Does anyone sense a plan here?) Virtually all oils carry multiple ratings. While for most applications, a higher rating in addition to the one specified, carries no risk...that is not the case with wet clutch motorcycle engines. All Spyder owners are in this bind. The 2008 Spyders specified a full synthetic oil, meeting certain specifications. Then BRP came out with their Summer Blend, which did not meet those specifications, yet that oil was specified for all the later Spyders, along with any full synthetic or synthetic blend designed for motorcycle use...without the API-SM rating. At that time they did not issue a service bulletin or any other announcement that would let the 2008 owners off the hook for a full synthetic meeting the API-SL rating. Now manufacturers have apparently found a way to meet the API-SM rating without the friction modifiers that cause clutch slippage. (I can't imagine Mobil1 motorcycle oil would be marketed if it was bad for motorcycles.) Unfortunately, BRP's specification once again remains the same. We are hung out on a limb again!

No, your dealer won't test your oil in case of failure. What he might do, however, in case of a problem in instances where the owner changed his own oil, would be to insist on your maintenance records. The oil you used would be revealed then. If your records were insufficient to prove you used the proper oil, your claim could be legally denied. Clutch trouble would be the most common trigger for this type of action on the dealer's part. If a tech does not find a mechanical failure (or a turbo, eh Doc) that caused a clutch to burn up, he would immediately suspect the wrong oil was used.

Note that most oils carry multiple ratings. The rule of thumb is to use any oil whose label carries the rating specified in your owner's manual...provided it does not list any rating which is specifically prohibited. In this situation, the ball would be in BRP's court to make any necessary adjustments to their specification. Since they did not do so in 2009, I sure wouldn't expect it now. They have put the burden of proof on us...in effect forcing us to buy their oil (which doesn't meet their own spec, but is specifically listed as OK for all but 2008 Spyders.) Your frustration is best addressed with them, I'm afraid. Best of luck climbing that mountain!

[BajaRon]

:agree: with Scotty.

Don't read this if you are susceptible to migraines! :yikes:

Oil can be as simple, or as complicated as you want to make it. It doesn't have to give you a headache, but it can.

The oil we get in a can isn't what the Arab's send us in barrels. First, Chemical engineers play all kinds of games with it.

Then the marketing people get involved.

Clueless said in a previous post; "after the oil heats up you either 5W40 or 10W40 is the SAME weight running at SAE40 weight at operating temp so again no difference. So its a WIN WIN to use 5W40 over 10W40. all things being equal."

And, in a perfect world, and all things being equal, this would be a correct statement. But, unfortunatly, it isn't a perfect world, and all things are certainly not equal. If you dig deeper into oil testing you'll find viscosities can be all over the map and nowhere near what the label on the bottle states even after only a few hundred miles.

That article from Clueless is a good one, but the part about 40 weight being 40 weight is more intended theory than reality (as you'll see if you read further down).

It would be nice if it were that easy. And honestly, it should be. But honesty is part of the problem. You have to understand, the job of the oil manufactures is not to make oil, it is to SELL oil, and in doing so, make a profit. Bigger profit is better.

If you read down a little further in the excellent article posted by Clueless, you'll find that synthetic is not necessarily synthetic. In fact, the United States is the only country in the world that allows Group III based oils to be marketed as 'Full Synthetic' (which they are not).

Amsoil and Mobil 1 are the only Group IV based oils (True Synthetic) that I know of (thought it's been sometime since I checked this).

Group IV is a more expensive base than Group III. And if you can sell the cheaper Group III as Synthetic (and make more money) then....

Group III based oils must have the same modifiers to get multiple viscosities as do so called Dyno oils. The greater the spread between numbers, the more modifiers are needed. These modifiers tend to break down, especially when you add a transmission to the equation.

As they break down, so does your effective viscosity and protection.

Group IV based oils do not need these modifiers so they maintain original specs much longer.

That is why, in my opinion, it is a shame to pass over a great product like Amsoil, or Mobil 1 for that matter, because of a 5w/10w difference. But, of course, this is just my opinion and it's always worth what it costs.

I am not saying that everyone should rush out and get Amsoil or Mobil 1. Or that other oils used by Spyder owners aren't going a great job. But knowing as much as you can will always lead you to the best choice for what you are trying to accomplish.

[BajaRon]

There must be something wrong with me because I love oil discussions! I guess it only confirms what Lamont has been saying about me for years!

Anyway, with all the concern about wet clutch application, this is some interesting information.

Now, of course, this is from Amsoil and they are marketing their product. So you have to take that into consideration. I would have liked to see more oils tested. Makes me wonder if other oils might out perform Amsoil in this area.

Go to Page 22 of this document where they give wet clutch friction information.

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf

[clueless]

Here is an oil that is Truly Synthetic rating in multiple countries. Made in France.

Motul 300V 4T

http://www.motul.co.jp/eg/product_line_up/4stroke/4stroke09.html

SAE/DOT Standard 5W40 http://www.motul.co.jp/eg/product_line_up/4stroke/images/space.gif http://www.motul.co.jp/eg/product_line_up/4stroke/images/space.gif Specification API SL & JASO MA

Weight meets BRP Requirements = CHECK

Specs meets BRP Requirements = CHECK

:clap:


(disclaimer) I do not work for an oil company, marketing company, nor a supplier for any brand of oil. I am not a FanBoy of one brand or another ... LOL

I do like Mobile 1 V-TWIN oil for my Harley and I run Mobile 1 Gear Oil in the Transmission of my Harley Fatboy.

Just they do not make 5W40 and now their rating has changed.

[clueless]

Go to Page 22 of this document where they give wet clutch friction information.

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf

from Page 22 = "Motul and Royal Purple meet the JASO MA specification"

Meets BajaRon requirement = CHECK :doorag:


the rest of most of the oil websites including the one I posted if from is AMSOL marketing cr$p. like BajaRon said they (in this case AMSOL) can spin it to make their best features (i.e. what they test) as listed in their report and bury what they suck at by not showing that graph or chart.

[BLACK WIDOW]

:agree: with Scotty.

Don't read this if you are susceptible to migraines! :yikes:

Oil can be as simple, or as complicated as you want to make it. It doesn't have to give you a headache, but it can.

The oil we get in a can isn't what the Arab's send us in barrels. First, Chemical engineers play all kinds of games with it.

Then the marketing people get involved.

Clueless said in a previous post; "after the oil heats up you either 5W40 or 10W40 is the SAME weight running at SAE40 weight at operating temp so again no difference. So its a WIN WIN to use 5W40 over 10W40. all things being equal."

And, in a perfect world, and all things being equal, this would be a correct statement. But, unfortunatly, it isn't a perfect world, and all things are certainly not equal. If you dig deeper into oil testing you'll find viscosities can be all over the map and nowhere near what the label on the bottle states even after only a few hundred miles.

That article from Clueless is a good one, but the part about 40 weight being 40 weight is more intended theory than reality (as you'll see if you read further down).

It would be nice if it were that easy. And honestly, it should be. But honesty is part of the problem. You have to understand, the job of the oil manufactures is not to make oil, it is to SELL oil, and in doing so, make a profit. Bigger profit is better.

If you read down a little further in the excellent article posted by Clueless, you'll find that synthetic is not necessarily synthetic. In fact, the United States is the only country in the world that allows Group III based oils to be marketed as 'Full Synthetic' (which they are not).

Amsoil and Mobil 1 are the only Group IV based oils (True Synthetic) that I know of (thought it's been sometime since I checked this).

Group IV is a more expensive base than Group III. And if you can sell the cheaper Group III as Synthetic (and make more money) then....

Group III based oils must have the same modifiers to get multiple viscosities as do so called Dyno oils. The greater the spread between numbers, the more modifiers are needed. These modifiers tend to break down, especially when you add a transmission to the equation.

As they break down, so does your effective viscosity and protection.

Group IV based oils do not need these modifiers so they maintain original specs much longer.

That is why, in my opinion, it is a shame to pass over a great product like Amsoil, or Mobil 1 for that matter, because of a 5w/10w difference. But, of course, this is just my opinion and it's always worth what it costs.

I am not saying that everyone should rush out and get Amsoil or Mobil 1. Or that other oils used by Spyder owners aren't going a great job. But knowing as much as you can will always lead you to the best choice for what you are trying to accomplish.

You are right on, my friend!!:doorag:

[IWN2RYD]

Man a lot of great info...

I hope we get even more and someone can answer the multiple rating question for us...:thumbup:

[BajaRon]

from Page 22 = "Motul and Royal Purple meet the JASO MA specification"

Meets BajaRon requirement = CHECK :doorag:


the rest of most of the oil websites including the one I posted if from is AMSOL marketing cr$p. like BajaRon said they (in this case AMSOL) can spin it to make their best features (i.e. what they test) as listed in their report and bury what they suck at by not showing that graph or chart.

I don't have any requirements, other than personal! :ohyea:

[Campverdefela]

Here is an oil that is Truly Synthetic rating in multiple countries. Made in France.

Motul 300V 4T

http://www.motul.co.jp/eg/product_line_up/4stroke/4stroke09.html (http://www.motul.co.jp/eg/product_line_up/4stroke/4stroke09.html)

SAE/DOT Standard 5W40 http://www.motul.co.jp/eg/product_line_up/4stroke/images/space.gif http://www.motul.co.jp/eg/product_line_up/4stroke/images/space.gif Specification API SL & JASO MA

Weight meets BRP Requirements = CHECK

Specs meets BRP Requirements = CHECK

:clap:


(disclaimer) I do not work for an oil company, marketing company, nor a supplier for any brand of oil. I am not a FanBoy of one brand or another ... LOL

I do like Mobile 1 V-TWIN oil for my Harley and I run Mobile 1 Gear Oil in the Transmission of my Harley Fatboy.

Just they do not make 5W40 and now their rating has changed.
:agree:Thats what I use, also the only double ester oil on the market.

[BajaRon]

Man a lot of great info...

I hope we get even more and someone can answer the multiple rating question for us...:thumbup:

As I said, the job of oil companies is to SELL as much oil as they can. These days, many brands are actually the same exact oil in a different container (and with different pricing depending on how good their marketing program is).

This can be amusing as someone will swear by brand X and say brand Y sucks. And they are identical except for the container, which you throw away. The marketing guys must be laughing all the way to the bank!

As for multiple ratings. Again, the idea is to SELL. The customer comes in, looks for the recommended rating on the bottle. If he sees it he buys, if he doesn't he moves on to another brand.

The more hooks in the water, the better chance of catching fish!

So, what to do about the SM rating and wet clutch applications? To me it's an easy solution because there is another rating specifically designed to test wet clutch slippage. If you don't get clutch slippage, what difference does the SM rating mean to us? (Other than the warranty thing which to me is bogus unless you're using a non-recommended oil which I understand brings us back full circle).

But here is where I choose to get off this bus! :ohyea:

The JASO rating tells you (basically) if your clutch will silp or not, regardless of any other rating listed on the bottle.

The MA2 JASO rating is the best, (most clutch friction, least slippage). Next comes MA (some list it as MA1, same thing). A little less clutch friction and a little more chance for slippage. And you want to stay clear of oils with a wet clutch rating of MB. You will very likely get slippage with the MB rated oils.

So, if the oil is MA or MA2 rated, who cares if it is also SM rated? That just means they have found a way to chemically engineer the oil to meet the SM standard without a negative impact to wet clutch applications.

Few oils have the MA2 rating. There are more with the MA rating. But here again, there is a range of slippage allowed to qualify for the MA rating. So just because your oil is MA rated does not necessarily mean it provides the same wet clutch performance as another MA rated oil. And some oils are labeled MA but don't actually meet the requirement in testing. :gaah:

So, take two asprin and call me in the morning! :roflblack:

[IWN2RYD]

As I said, the job of oil companies is to SELL as much oil as they can. Totally understand that



So, what to do about the SM rating and wet clutch applications? To me it's an easy solution because there is another rating specifically designed to test wet clutch slippage. If you don't get clutch slippage, what difference does the SM rating mean to us? (Other than the warranty thing which to me is bogus unless you're using a non-recommended oil which I understand brings us back full circle). Exactly!!! hahahahaha :roflblack:

But here is where I choose to get off this bus! :ohyea: Please do not go! We need you!! :pray:

The JASO rating tells you (basically) if your clutch will silp or not, regardless of any other rating listed on the bottle. Ok.. this is where the rubber meets the road. Phew!!! So the oil I am using will be just fine... Or even the Mobil 1 or Motul (That I use in every offload ride I have had the past five years ish)



So, if the oil is MA or MA2 rated, who cares if it is also SM rated? That just means they have found a way to chemically engineer the oil to meet the SM standard without a negative impact to wet clutch applications. Check :thumbup:

Few oils have the MA2 rating. There are more with the MA rating. But here again, there is a range of slippage allowed to qualify for the MA rating. So just because your oil is MA rated does not necessarily mean it provides the same wet clutch performance as another MA rated oil. And some oils are labeled MA but don't actually meet the requirement in testing. :gaah: Good Lord... Not another circle!!!! :gaah::gaah::gaah:

So, take two asprin and call me in the morning! :roflblack:.... I will add one shot of my favorite Rum and call it a day.... lol


Thank you!

[IWN2RYD]

I didn't have much luck with Rotella
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6390

Oh man I completely missed this post.. Ok.. I am selling off the newer T6 and just start over on the 2011...

[NancysToy]

Here's another to throw in the mix-

CASTROL POWER RS RACING — Ultimate Power & Performance
SPECIFICATIONS

API SERVICE: Exceeds API SL
JASO (T903): JASO MA-2
VISCOSITY: SAE 5W-40 // 10W-40 // 10W-50

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9021703&contentId=7040544
:agree: I would love to use this oil, but the only way I can get it is mail-order, which I am reluctant to do. The dealers don't carry it here, and they say they can't order it. Apparently the area distributor doesn't stock it. :(

[IWN2RYD]

Please take this with a grain of salt...

I just got off the phone with a BRP Rep in Canada. He was very helpful and informative.

As was my dealer of choice Clem's in Enumclaw...

As a personal decision based off of all this information. I will only be buying BRP's version and call it a day.

Scotty and I think a lot alike when it comes to warranties and I will just leave it there.

If this was a $6000-12,000 bike.... well I may not care and would just use my Motul stash. But these are not even close to that price category and I will run BRP oils till the B.E.S.T. runs out and the landscape is easier to maneuver through (Yeah right, but I can hope right! :clap:)

I greatly appreciate all of the input offered up by all the members and for the OP starting this thread. Otherwise I would have started off with our new 2011 on the wrong foot... nojoke:spyder2::doorag:

[clueless]

Here's another to throw in the mix-
CASTROL POWER RS RACING — Ultimate Power & Performance Castrol Power RS Racing with Trizone Technology is a full synthetic 4-stroke motorcycle oil designed to ensure maximum power and performance, even under the most demanding riding conditions. Its anti-friction formulation is proven to increase acceleration compared to conventional motorcycle oils.

BENEFITS

Full synthetic 4-stroke motorcycle oil
Race derived technology for maximum engine acceleration
Extreme high temperature air-cooled and water-cooled engine performance
Excellent shear stability to prevent viscosity breakdown

SPECIFICATIONS

API SERVICE: Exceeds API SL
JASO (T903): JASO MA-2
VISCOSITY: SAE 5W-40 // 10W-40 // 10W-50

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9021703&contentId=7040544


This was the other Oil I looked at. my dealer actually stocks this stuff...


As a personal decision based off of all this information. I will only be buying BRP's version and call it a day.

Scotty and I think a lot alike when it comes to warranties and I will just leave it there.

I greatly appreciate all of the input offered up by all the members and for the OP starting this thread. Otherwise I would have started off with our new 2011 on the wrong foot... nojoke:spyder2::doorag:

Hey if you lived closer to me I would offer to buy your Motul if its 5W40 ;) .... but you can not go wrong with the BRP. just not sure why they went with the summer SEMI SYNTH other then to make a less expensive oil. I would stick with the GOLD Full Synth.

but without any ratings or weight on their oil bottle it is hard to compare to the others. I feel that the Castrol mentioned above or the Motul 300V 4T (both full synth) is better then the BRP.

The easy way for warranty coverage is stick with BRP. I can easily justify if it comes to it with Motul 300V 4T as it meets all their requirements in the Shop Manual and the owners Manual.

[BajaRon]

Originally Posted by HDXBONES http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=272183#post272183)
Here's another to throw in the mix-

CASTROL POWER RS RACING — Ultimate Power & Performance



SPECIFICATIONS

API SERVICE: Exceeds API SL
JASO (T903): JASO MA-2
VISCOSITY: SAE 5W-40 // 10W-40 // 10W-50
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7040544 (http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9021703&contentId=7040544)


:agree: I would love to use this oil, but the only way I can get it is mail-order, which I am reluctant to do. The dealers don't carry it here, and they say they can't order it. Apparently the area distributor doesn't stock it. :(

That oil looks very good to me too. Next time I'm out I will see if we have it around here. Not that I'm unhappy with Amsoil, but you never know when you'll need an ace in the hole!

I do know that Castrol cheats on some of their 'Synthetic' oils in the US. But it looks like this one is a true syhthetic. I've always liked Castrol products.

[retired1]

I just got back from my dealers Christmas party. His BRP oil arrives on Castrol pallets:D.

[BajaRon]

I just got back from my dealers Christmas party. His BRP oil arrives on Castrol pallets:D.

Well, you know BRP doesn't make oil, they purchase it from a manufacturer, and in this case it looks to be Castrol.

Which has been my real point all along. BRP and your dealer may tell you that only BRP oil is the correct product. But in reality, there is no such thing. There is only someone elses oil in a BRP container.

And it is a sure thing that if you purchase the idential oil in a Castrol container, it will cost you less.

[SpyderWolf]

Well, you know BRP doesn't make oil, they purchase it from a manufacturer, and in this case it looks to be Castrol.

Which has been my real point all along. BRP and your dealer may tell you that only BRP oil is the correct product. But in reality, there is no such thing. There is only someone elses oil in a BRP container.

And it is a sure thing that if you purchase the idential oil in a Castrol container, it will cost you less.

Ding, ding, ding. That is the correct answer all the way around. I too have seen the Castrol pallets with the BRP cases on them. I currently have Mobil 1 in our Spyders, but would be happy to try the Castrol Power RS oil if I can find it. :thumbup:

[Lamonster]

Well, you know BRP doesn't make oil, they purchase it from a manufacturer, and in this case it looks to be Castrol.

Which has been my real point all along. BRP and your dealer may tell you that only BRP oil is the correct product. But in reality, there is no such thing. There is only someone elses oil in a BRP container.

And it is a sure thing that if you purchase the idential oil in a Castrol container, it will cost you less.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=82915504&contentId=7040371

[BajaRon]

Is this what people are using?

http://spyder.brp.com/GearsAccessories/Content/226/CanAmSpyder/neutral/images/catalogs/products/293600121_FT_MD.jpg (http://spyder.brp.com/GearsAccessories/Content/226/CanAmSpyder/neutral/images/catalogs/products/293600121_FT_FL.jpg)

I can't find any specs on this product. I can't see any viscosity numbers on the container.

I can't find anywere on the BRP site that says this oil is 5w/40. They just say it is recommended for the Spyder.

Some retailers say it is 5w/40. But I'm wondering if they say that because BRP recommends 5w/40 and they just assume that is what this is.

Are there specs on the back of the container?

[JJW SpyderRider]

Is this what people are using?

http://spyder.brp.com/GearsAccessories/Content/226/CanAmSpyder/neutral/images/catalogs/products/293600121_FT_MD.jpg (http://spyder.brp.com/GearsAccessories/Content/226/CanAmSpyder/neutral/images/catalogs/products/293600121_FT_FL.jpg)

I can't find any specs on this product. I can't see any viscosity numbers on the container.

I can't find anywere on the BRP site that says this oil is 5w/40. They just say it is recommended for the Spyder.

Some retailers say it is 5w/40. But I'm wondering if they say that because BRP recommends 5w/40 and they just assume that is what this is.

Are there specs on the back of the container?

Looking at the bottle I have it does not have any specs even on the back as you suspected. It only states it good for the BRP :spyder2:.

[Lamonster]

XPS
X‑tra Protection
(Part Synthetic)? :dontknow:

[BajaRon]

XPS
X‑tra Protection
(Part Synthetic)? :dontknow:

EXACTLY!

BINGO!

You Nailed it right on the head! Exactly where I was going!

And Guess What! That is a 10w/40 oil, bet your bottom dollar on it! And that, my friends, explains why there is no viscosity rating on that BRP bottle.

The Castol runs around $5 a quart in quart or gallon sizes.

From what I've been able to find, you'll pay about twice as much a quart for the BRP oil.

If this theory holds, you're paying about $5 for the oil and $5 for the BRP bottle. You could do the same thing by getting the Castol and just throwing a $5 bill in the trash everytime you put a quart in.

Just food for thought..... :D:D:D

[Roadkill]

... I looked at Amsoil and it looked like this same dilemma is there as well. They qualify for numerous ratings.

+The AMSOIL motorcycle oils (all pure synthetics manufactured right here in the USA) are NOT SM rated. There is no AMSOIL dilemma, and they're perfectly suited for a wet clutch environment.

Ride on.
Roadkill
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_10319.JPG

[SpyderWolf]

XPS
X‑tra Protection
(Part Synthetic)? :dontknow:

X-tra Profit Sucking. :D :roflblack:

[BajaRon]

X-tra Profit Sucking. :D :roflblack:


Now, if we go 1 step further with this, and why not, we've already stepped off the cliff. Here we have the BRP All Climate, full synthetic oil. Again, with no viscosity numbers that I can see.

Could this be Castrol Power RS Racing 4T Full Synthetic 5w-40 or maybe 10w-40? I strongly suspect it is.


http://spyder.brp.com/GearsAccessories/Content/226/CanAmSpyder/neutral/images/catalogs/products/293600112_FT_MD.jpg (http://spyder.brp.com/GearsAccessories/Content/226/CanAmSpyder/neutral/images/catalogs/products/293600112_FT_FL.jpg)

[/URL][URL="http://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.proformanceusa.com/mall/castrol_motorcycle.aspx&rct=j&sa=X&ei=jw4MTbbqGoL58AbQrYmIDg&ved=0CDoQ9gIwBA&q=CASTROL+4T+5w+40&usg=AFQjCNHEIOg4iUiecFGwgcb3TQsj6vss0g"] (javascript:popupWindow('http://www.hecosport.com/shop/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=6518'))

[Way2Fast]

I fail to understand why so many have their feathers fluffed over what oil to use. The Spyder engine is no different than any other motorcycle engine and just about all bike engines made today use wet clutches. ANY motorcycle oil that is labeled "safe for wet clutch applications" is perfectly acceptable for use in any bike, the Spyder included. 5W-40 or 10W-40 are both OK to use. BRP had been using Castrol oil for years. When they got a "better deal" from another mfg they switched suppliers. The Castrol oil was green in color, the new supplier's oil was brown. They may have switched back to Castrol oil or perhaps to yet another brand. They buy from whoever gives them the lowest price. The almighty buck is more important to BRP than the quality of the oil. There is one oil that I would never use in any vehicle.....it's BRP's XPS oil !! They don't put the rating designations on the container because they switch suppliers so often that they don't know what the current rating are !!

On another note.....synthetic oil has an expiration date. It might not be wise to use oil that has been sitting at a low volume dealer for years. While it might have the designations you want, it probably will not perform as well as the latest batch of oils and might even be harmful to your engine..

[NancysToy]

Now, if we go 1 step further with this, and why not, we've already stepped off the cliff. Here we have the BRP All Climate, full synthetic oil. Again, with no viscosity numbers that I can see.

Could this be Castrol Power RS Racing 4T Full Synthetic 5w-40 or maybe 10w-40? I strongly suspect it is.


http://spyder.brp.com/GearsAccessories/Content/226/CanAmSpyder/neutral/images/catalogs/products/293600112_FT_MD.jpg (http://spyder.brp.com/GearsAccessories/Content/226/CanAmSpyder/neutral/images/catalogs/products/293600112_FT_FL.jpg)


When I looked this up on the BRP Website, it was not listed as recommended for the Spyder. I am guessing it is a wider viscosity range.

[BajaRon]

I fail to understand why so many have their feathers fluffed over what oil to use. The Spyder engine is no different than any other motorcycle engine and just about all bike engines made today use wet clutches. ANY motorcycle oil that is labeled "safe for wet clutch applications" is perfectly acceptable for use in any bike, the Spyder included. 5W-40 or 10W-40 are both OK to use. BRP had been using Castrol oil for years. When they got a "better deal" from another mfg they switched suppliers. The Castrol oil was green in color, the new supplier's oil was brown. They may have switched back to Castrol oil or perhaps to yet another brand. They buy from whoever gives them the lowest price. The almighty buck is more important to BRP than the quality of the oil. There is one oil that I would never use in any vehicle.....it's BRP's XPS oil !! They don't put the rating designations on the container because they switch suppliers so often that they don't know what the current rating are !!

On another note.....synthetic oil has an expiration date. It might not be wise to use oil that has been sitting at a low volume dealer for years. While it might have the designations you want, it probably will not perform as well as the latest batch of oils and might even be harmful to your engine..

I'm not sure it's so much people getting feathers askew over a particular oil. I think we all understand it comes down to personal preference and opinion.

Instead, I think people just want to know the truth. If they can get a straight story then they can make their own, informed decision. If the truth is that the current oil they use isn't what they thought it was, or if they find a oil they like better, I'd say most will switch.

After all, it's the Spyder that is most important.

Ruffling comes when things get confusing (and it appears the confusion may be deliberate).

But I completely agree that the BRP oil containers lack details because they want the flexability to change what is in the bottle without having to change the container.

I'm also sure BRP will not put anything into the bottle that isn't going to work well in the Spyder. But worrying about 5W or 10W is something that I'm pretty sure BRP does not waste their time on. My guess is you could get either out of the same BRP container, depending on when you buy.

[IWN2RYD]

If the ruffled feathers comment is including me, than so be it. I raise my hand in recognition... The act of ruffling feathers is to clean off the crap/worthless stuff :D. Or to attract the opposite sex of course :opps::popcorn::roflblack:.

Baja is correct. I think most of us simply want what is best for our Spyders. Not some brand fan club. But to those like me who have not learned any of this information, but enjoy changing our own oils and such want accurate info. Period.

I come from a family that usually keeps the same vehicles until either life changes create a change, or an accident or health takes them away.

So for us choosing to trade in our 2010 on a 2011 was a real serious conversation, and is with the intention of having this for far more years than some may consider ideal. We simply do not want to start off it's life with us only to learn a few years down the road that we caused unnecessary damage to it. And could have prevented it.

Talk is cheap, time will tell. But we plan to ryde for quite a few decades yet. Dropping $30k every few years to do that, or $3000-6000 to repair an non-warranted item is not on our agenda. Ryding with good folks creating fun enjoyable memories are... :thumbup:

With this new added info on BRP flip flopping (Potentially) I am about to throw my hands up in defeat/disgust as an owner.

I have read more than once, that changing your oil brand is not a good idea from oil change to oil change. As one brand has additives that another may not, and they can create a reduction in that oil change life cycle as the new oil is fighting the additives of the old. Evidently this can simply mean a 3500 mile oil change simply needs to become a 1750 mile oil change and from there you are good to go until you change brands again.

Assuming this has any truth in it as well, if BRP is flip flopping I can see this creating a potential hazard and I would rather take it into my own hands and run the same product. And I have learned from this thread that buying a year supply of oil is not a good idea anymore if using synthetic oils. :gaah:

But then that is the very reason this thread got started now isn't it. lol... Mobil 1 Changed the specs (AKA selling points :thumbup:).

Man this reminds me of when my wife asked me to marry her. Circles after circles of thoughts hahahahahahahaha... :chat:

If anything else, I for one am glad I chimed in. I have learned quite a bit. Thank you all...

Off to surf the web for accessories. Man that is a lot easier nojoke:ohyea:

[AMTJIM]

Yeah I know...high octane fuel and nitrogen in the tires.

[boborgera]

Yeah nitrogen in the tires.

I find my Spyder runs best if i keep the Nitrogen level at 78 and the Oxygen level at 21 Percent in the Tires.
And so far it's Tax Free.:ohyea:

[BajaRon]

I have read more than once, that changing your oil brand is not a good idea from oil change to oil change. As one brand has additives that another may not, and they can create a reduction in that oil change life cycle as the new oil is fighting the additives of the old. Evidently this can simply mean a 3500 mile oil change simply needs to become a 1750 mile oil change and from there you are good to go until you change brands again.



Changing brands years ago was more of a risk than it is these days. And even then, I'm not sure it was all that big a deal.

As long as you are staying with similar service products, it isn't going to be a problem. There are cheap oils, cheap additives, expensive oils and expensive additives. But again, if you stay in the same ballpark you're not going to have any chemical reaction.

Now, if you add dyno oil to synthetic you will degrade performance. But that will be the result of mixing in an inferior product, not because of incompatabilites or chemical reactions.

I wouldn't worry much about this aspect.

[Raptor]

I just got back from my dealers Christmas party. His BRP oil arrives on Castrol pallets:D.

That woud make sense as I am pretty sure BRP and Castrol oils are made by BP.

[clueless]

BRP oil is just like Harley brand oil. they get who ever bids lowest to make it for them.

but Harley does say that they have a formula or spec that the supplier has to meet in order to mfg the oil for them. i.e. the oil is the same standards just mfg by different vendors for Harley. (that is what they say). at least they give you the weight of the oil on the bottle along with full synth or standard oil option.

anyway this is where i get off the bus for this thread :banghead:

I am sticking with Motul 300V 4T.

[BajaRon]

BRP oil is just like Harley brand oil. they get who ever bids lowest to make it for them.

but Harley does say that they have a formula or spec that the supplier has to meet in order to mfg the oil for them. i.e. the oil is the same standards just mfg by different vendors for Harley. (that is what they say). at least they give you the weight of the oil on the bottle along with full synth or standard oil option.

anyway this is where i get off the bus for this thread :banghead:

I am sticking with Motul 300V 4T.

See! There you go! Asprin goes back in the cupboard and life is good! :ohyea:

[jeuchler]

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/images/products/PowerRSR4_375x252.jpg

Ha!

When I saw this photo, Lou, I thought that was you leaning into the turn and that you had replaced your RoadGlide!!! :yikes: :joke:

[BajaRon]

Ha!

When I saw this photo, Lou, I thought that was you leaning into the turn and that you had replaced your RoadGlide!!! :yikes: :joke:

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/images/products/PowerRSR4_375x252.jpg

What!? That's not a Road Glide?!? :dontknow:

[jeuchler]

Not me, but I did replace my RoadGlide......with a newer RoadGlide.....:D

Nobody tells me anything...:gaah:


Good luck with it, man! :thumbup:

[clueless]

See! There you go! Asprin goes back in the cupboard and life is good! :ohyea:

hey weren't you getting off this bus before me :spyder:

[BajaRon]

hey weren't you getting off this bus before me :spyder:

The bus I was referring to was the circular issue of warranty concerns, I love the oil bus! :clap:

[wyliec]

The bus I was referring to was the circular issue of warranty concerns, I love the oil bus! :clap:

I don't have any warranty concerns. I let the dealer put the so called BRP XPS in. I don't think about who actually produces it, what the weight is or any additives. And, I know it would be cheaper to change my own oil. But, then I would have to be concerned about all the info presented in this thread and then I would have to worry if I had an old batch, a new batch, an in between batch with this additive or that additive.

I just love to ryde and not have to worry. Isn't life great.

Ron, you made me say all this.

[BajaRon]

I don't have any warranty concerns. I let the dealer put the so called BRP XPS in. I don't think about who actually produces it, what the weight is or any additives. And, I know it would be cheaper to change my own oil. But, then I would have to be concerned about all the info presented in this thread and then I would have to worry if I had an old batch, a new batch, an in between batch with this additive or that additive.

I just love to ryde and not have to worry. Isn't life great.

Ron, you made me say all this.

I am innocent of this charge! :D

Everyone has to do what works best for them.

I enjoy changing my own oil. I lean more about my ride, I know that it has been done correctly so I don't have to worry about somebody else doing it wrong (except when I let Lamont do it and he leaves the copper drain plug seal off the crank case just before we leave for a 5000+ mile round trip to California!). :yikes:

But I digress!

I am able to use the best possible oil and still put a lot of bucks in my pocket to buy other things with.

I don't have to ride 50 miles 1 way and wait for a service either.

And, I know there will be zero warranty issues because of the oil I'm using.

It's just the way I like to do it. And I think it has many advantages. But I know it isn't for everyone.

Those that do it another way think their way is the best. I think my way is the best. But really, the way the Spyder owner likes to do it is best for them.